Kechika elk .....

[BCrams]

Curious to see what folks on here think of the 10 day season for 6 point bulls on the Kechika?

Given the hot debates in the past regarding no conservation concern ......

Why is there only a 10 day season for bull elk in the Kechika Valley??? Should we be expanding the season / opportunity to harvest elk?

Now I am sure someone could give me and other readers very valid reasons for maintaining only a 10 day 6 pt elk season ...... but in light of the issues we have witness regarding the east slopes regarding habitat / Stone's sheep / elk / predators ...... should we not be expanding on this season to harvest elk?

[boxhitch]

It is recognized that the sheep habitat on the east slope has been impacted by the high numbers of elk, and discussion has been about how to increase the harvest. Hunting bulls does nothing for population control, it would be a good thing if more hunters targetted cows but who is going to do a fly-in or river trip for a meat haul ?

I wonder how many antlerless are taken out of 7-50 ?

Then of course there is the arguement for the need for trophy elk hunting and should sheep be given higher consideration than large 6-pt trophys ?

But yes, a ten day trophy season is over-restrictive and politically driven.

[dutchie]

I have never hunted up that way but I think that CO's should maybe be help more acoutable for thier actions regardless on wether the sheep are suffering because of the elk, or the elk are suffereing from the wolves.

We are paying them to regulate the "inventory" in the areas and they should definatly be accountable for the seasons and openings.

Maybe a few more CO's or people studing the elk, sheep, wolves, ect... and letting everyone know whats going on... Or have a co-olition of hunters being able to add insight into these more remote areas

i may be way off base but that is what I am thinking.

I voted #3 or unsure

dutchie

[jml11]

It is recognized that the sheep habitat on the east slope has been impacted by the high numbers of elk, and discussion has been about how to increase the harvest. Hunting bulls does nothing for population control, it would be a good thing if more hunters targetted cows but who is going to do a fly-in or river trip for a meat haul ?

I wonder how many antlerless are taken out of 7-50 ?


Sorry to side track. You might be suprised by this. Having been on a few fly-in trips into 7-50 during the 3-point/antlerless season I can say that most of the hunters in there shoot the first elk they see. Our group regularly comes out with our limit which on average consists of 4-5 cows/calves and 4-5 bulls, most of which are 3-4 points. On occasion, guys hold out for a big guy and usually settle for a cow near the end. Of course this varies by year and as luck would have it some trips we will get 2-3 six pointers and the rest will be cows. We have had years were we have sent it 30 people spread over 3 weeks and most tag out on elk (most of them are cows). The odd two-point moose is also taken.

The area we hunt is hit hard by residents, plane traffic in and out everyday and all the hunters we talk to are looking for meat, not trophy bulls. But yes, I would agree it seems silly to do a fly-in trip for meat, but to be honest, it is pretty easy pickens up there.

[orion]

I voted no because I think the herd does need to be thinned but on the antlerless side. Unfortunately, its a costly venture just to go for cows.

[PGK]

From what I know about the issue.....there is a conservation concern.....for the sheep! More elk nearly directly correlates to less sheep. Values: what's the more valuable resource? I think most people are going to say it's sheep.

[GoatGuy]

Even an any elk season in the liard wouldn't do a damn thing. Not enough hunters, not enough access, way too many elk.

[boxhitch]

Thanks jml11. Had not heard it first hand.
Wonder if 7-50 was a test and the antlerless is due for expansion ?

But this is about the Kechika herd, right BCR ?
Expansion of territory is a natural occurence, but could be accelerated by increased hunting pressure.
Hopefully the adversity of the Cassiar Range will keep some control.

[ThinAir]

Would like to see an any elk archery at least!

[boxhitch]

Would like to see an any elk archery at least!Good humour !:)

[BCrams]

Even an any elk season in the liard wouldn't do a damn thing. Not enough hunters, not enough access, way too many elk.

Exactly. So why keep it at a just 10 day 6 pt trophy season?

[GoatGuy]

Exactly. So why keep it at a just 10 day 6 pt trophy season?

Ask Boxhitch.:smile:

Oooopps, looks like he already said it.

"But yes, a ten day trophy season is over-restrictive and politically driven."

[BCrams]

Ball is in his court .......

If he doesn't know, maybe a BCWF rep from the Peace will have the answer ......

[GoatGuy]

Ball is in his court .......

If he doesn't know, maybe a BCWF rep from the Peace will have the answer ......

hahahhahaha

[gitnadoix]

As I dont chase sheep, and do chase Elk I would, and for very self serving reasons say let the Elk expand and procreate like crazy. Now before I get shot for that view, let me just say that is of course from a self serving point of view. But then again how many people who are pro-sheep would suport iradication of deer from the Queen Charlotte Islands as they are not native and are impacting the natural flora.

Or for that matter moose from many areas of BC that prior to logging held very limited populations if you are to beleive the old time trappers. So this whole province is full of expanding and shrinking populations.

Just a bit of a rant.

[boxhitch]

Ball is in his court .......

If he doesn't know, maybe a BCWF rep from the Peace will have the answer ......MOE would probably say something like "it is to match the same season as offered elsewhere". I doubt much more thought went into the dates than that.

[BCrams]

MOE would probably say something like "it is to match the same season as offered elsewhere". I doubt much more thought went into the dates than that.

Would you say more thought should be put into it now?

[hunter1947]

I voted unsure ,I don't know this area well enough to vote other.

[tuchodi]

I have spent quite a lot of time up there over the last 40 years and I believe that if the ministry would do a lot of elk habitat enhancement which means burning lots of the lower slops to create more grass it would do 2 things. First give the elk herd a good boost and also relieve some of the pressure off the sheep habitat so both could prosper.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I have spent quite a lot of time up there over the last 40 years and I believe that if the ministry would do a lot of elk habitat enhancement which means burning lots of the lower slops to create more grass it would do 2 things. First give the elk herd a good boost and also relieve some of the pressure off the sheep habitat so both could prosper.

Do you think the wolf population may prosper alongside the prospering elk population???

SSS

[bridger]

on the subject or kechika elk there are duscussions underway to increase the season in 2010 when the time is appropriate it would help if guys on this site emailed the moe in fsjohn with those views. on the subject of elk in general the antlerless season in 7 50 is being greatly expanded this season. on the subject of elk impacting sheep that is true somewhat but doesn't appear to be a major factor just one of many. the sheep in the racing have really gone down and while there are elk in there the numbers aren't great same as the toad. in the tuchodi i have hunted elk in there more or less consistently since 1985 most of the elk we see are not on sheep ranges but in the lower hills that were burned by don peck 30 years ago. those burns gave rise to the elk population we have in there now. since this became the mk protected area it is very difficult to get permission to burn in there, but that is what needs to happen. tuchodi is dead on in that regard. I think in 7-50 you could have an any elk season for six weeks and not do much to lower the population access is too difficult.

[tuchodi]

Do you think the wolf population may prosper alongside the prospering elk population???

SSS

You are right about the wolf's. That is another problem that has to be addressed. It is not just one simple thing that can be done to correct all the problems that are concerning wildlife. As Bridger said we must as concerned outdoor people keep informing the moe of what we see in our province. We our out there in the bush in larger numbers than anyone, and with the knowledge and experience we gain from that we have to report this to the moe so they can hopefully make the right decisions on wildlife management.

[tufferthandug]

KILL wolves! Lots of em..

Unsure about Elk.

[PGK]

KILL wolves! Lots of em..

Unsure about Elk.

Killing wolves won't have any impact if the elk populations are still high. Unless we're talking a wolf eradication campaign, which won't happen.

Option one: Kill lots of elk, hope the wolf numbers come down

Option two: Kill lots of wolves, hope the elk don't push the sheep out

Option three: Kill lots of elk and lots of wolves, make the sheep happy as all get out?

I dunno :???:

[boxhitch]

Would you say more thought should be put into it now?Sure. Open up the bull elk for the month of September, throughout the province.

[BCrams]

Sure. Open up the bull elk for the month of September, throughout the province.

Certainly need to bring the Kechika elk season more in line with the rest of the province.

As GG mentioned, its remote, hard to access, not enough hunters and too many elk. Whats to worry about extending the season?

I personally don't think those elk should have been transplanted into the area in the first place!

[GoatGuy]

Certainly need to bring the Kechika elk season more in line with the rest of the province.

As GG mentioned, its remote, hard to access, not enough hunters and too many elk. Whats to worry about extending the season?

I personally don't think those elk should have been transplanted into the area in the first place!

My buddy was telling me about flying them in with the Caribou. Said one load was all bulls. Said the plane was rocking the whole way. By the time they got there was a pile of blood and only 1 bull remained.

Bit of a learning experience.
:roll:

[GoatGuy]

Sure. Open up the bull elk for the month of September, throughout the province.

Not September 2-Oct 2?

[Skeena Hunter 1]

Would someone please let us know why it is only 10 days. All the wink wink nod nod answers might be okay for those that actually know(or think they know), but some of us are shitty guessers. So fess up if you have the facts.:biggrin:

[GoatGuy]

Would someone please let us know why it is only 10 days. All the wink wink nod nod answers might be okay for those that actually know(or think they know), but some of us are shitty guessers. So fess up if you have the facts.:biggrin:

Here's another question, why would we have a 6pt season in an area with little to no access?

[bowhunterbruce]

yes yes and yes,i'm all for an increased season up there especially of it included an archery only season.i do wish however they would get back to doing some prescribed burns to open it up abit more so for scouting and being able to spot and stalk the smart assed critters especially during the rut.

[BCrams]

yes yes and yes,i'm all for an increased season up there especially of it included an archery only season.i do wish however they would get back to doing some prescribed burns to open it up abit more so for scouting and being able to spot and stalk the smart assed critters especially during the rut.

Shows how little you know about the country up there.

There are however a couple nice burns for you further south on the Kechika / Gataga.

Given the access issues, you don't even need a bow only season :roll:

If you want spot n stalk ...... head to the Tuchodi / Gathto.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

Here's another question, why would we have a 6pt season in an area with little to no access?

Yes it is another question, That makes two I don't know the answer too, but I was looking for an answer. if you have it fess up, like I said i am a shitty guesser.:?:

[bowhunterbruce]

Shows how little you know about the country up there.

There are however a couple nice burns for you further south on the Kechika / Gataga.

Given the access issues, you don't even need a bow only season :roll:

If you want spot n stalk ...... head to the Tuchodi / Gathto.
i was relieing on what a buddy of mine was saying as he guided up there a few years ago for scoop lake.its been a dream of mine to hunt the trench for a number of years now.and was told by an old trapper (SINCE DECEASED) that terminus mtn was great except for the growth had gotten a bit heavy.thats were his trapline was.i had an oppertunity to use his cabin until my partners back out last minute.i had even arranged a boat trip up to it.man was i choked ,so much so i hardly hunt with them 2 guys anymore.
oh well 1 day i'll make it up there before everything is gone.

[ElkMasterC]

We need a fourth option:

For every wolf you kill, would you like an extra week of Elk Season?

;-)

[Gateholio]

Would someone please let us know why it is only 10 days. All the wink wink nod nod answers might be okay for those that actually know(or think they know), but some of us are shitty guessers. So fess up if you have the facts.:biggrin:

I'll take a wild stab at it-

It is possible that outfitters managed to convince the MOE of the need for these restrictions, to increase the chance of thier clients killing a large bull elk.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I'll take a stab as well.

Most likely these regs were in place back when the population was small and growing......similar to a recovery strategy. Elk were trasplanted back in 1984 and '85 and the first season was in 1989.


Now that the population is much higher the regs most likely have been lobbied to stay in place. Alway easier to stay with the status quo than change the reg especially when there is no pressure to do so.


Scoop's website used to say that the area typically burned every couple of years(most likely with a little help?) but that may have changed in the last few.

Like most have said....it's a looooooong ways to go for an elk.

SSS

[PGK]

The issue then becomes, if it gets a reg change and you can bonk one (or two! whoa!) elk per man, how much is that going to increase realisitic harvest numbers? Methinks not much.....

Perhaps make it a requirement for the GO's to kill two cows before they can kill a bull?

[boxhitch]

The Trench is prone to lightening, must be the minerals.
There seems to be a fire of some sort regularily.
Some of the outfitters (Scoop, Terminus, Simpson Stone, others?), can do burns for livestock forage.

[boxhitch]

I'll take a wild stab at it-

It is possible that outfitters managed to convince the MOE of the need for these restrictions, to increase the chance of thier clients killing a large bull elk.G/O influence ? In 7 ? Hhhmm.......
I still say not much thought was put into it.

[boxhitch]

Perhaps make it a requirement for the GO's to kill two cows before they can kill a bull?G/O's aren't the ones complaining.

[BCrams]

The issue then becomes, if it gets a reg change and you can bonk one (or two! whoa!) elk per man, how much is that going to increase realisitic harvest numbers? Methinks not much.....

Perhaps make it a requirement for the GO's to kill two cows before they can kill a bull?

I am sure more people who have the means, will make the effort to travel to the region, in particular if the hunt is extended to include the rut.

Most clients aren't at Scoop on a meat hunt.

[boxhitch]

My buddy was telling me about flying them in with the Caribou. Said one load was all bulls. Said the plane was rocking the whole way. By the time they got there was a pile of blood and only 1 bull remained.

Bit of a learning experience.
:roll:Really ?? :roll: You know what they say about old pilots.....

[boxhitch]

The Trench has had a handful of BC hunters each year since the season opened on the east side. It can be a difficult hunt because of the dense second-growth decidious, and the limited holding terrain in the open-season area.
Hunting was probably poor, with small trophies , as it wasn't talked about much.

[BCrams]

Hunting was probably poor, with small trophies

That explains it.

[GoatGuy]

The Trench has had a handful of BC hunters each year since the season opened on the east side. It can be a difficult hunt because of the dense second-growth decidious, and the limited holding terrain in the open-season area.
Hunting was probably poor, with small trophies , as it wasn't talked about much.

Small trophies is right, especially when you compare them to the monsters they shoot in the EK.:roll:

[whitetailsheds]

G/O's aren't the ones complaining.

I'd expect to see that change on the GO's part if increasing #'s of elk are competing with dwindling #'s of stone sheep.
If this is having a direct effect on the sheep, I would hope the GO's would be in favor also of seeing some sort of changes in regards to elk.
I don't think an improving number and calibre of big bull elk would out weigh the price of competing for sheep habitat and stone rams.
Although, it is about money.......

[GoatGuy]

Really ?? :roll: You know what they say about old pilots.....

46 is old?

What does that make you?????????????

[Stone Sheep Steve]

46 is old?

What does that make you?????????????

Older than dirt?? Well, at least maybe feeling that way right now??

SSS

[boxhitch]

Why, you young whippersnappers !!...Give me my canes and pull this chair closer, I'll show you...!

[GoatGuy]

Why, you young whippersnappers !!...Give me my canes and pull this chair closer, I'll show you...!

What did they use to walk uphill both ways before there were canoes?

[PGK]

G/O's aren't the ones complaining.

I realize the GOs aren't complaining, and I realize their clients aren't there for a meat hunt. But if they were forced to take two cows before one bull, that would up the harvest rate pretty quick? Just throwing stuff out there

[boxhitch]

that would up the harvest rate pretty quick?
So would a cull
But lets stay sensible

[PGK]

So would a cull
But lets stay sensible

What is sensible when you can't wield hunters as a management tool!? We can't rely on hunting pressure to take them back, we can't rely on anyone to take the wolf numbers down. We can't shoot them out of planes. So we have to deal with the hunting pressure we do have. The only way you knock back an elk population is to hammer the cows. Incentives for taking cows have to be considered.....

[boxhitch]

Good stuff for a series of debates
You will never get all hunters on the same side of a table, too much self-serving
You can't force anyone to do something because of someone elses reasoning
Will never resolve what species should have a higher priority than an other
Can hunters make demands about increase/decreasse numbers when the current harvest is meeting needs ?

Pick your battles
I do like your spirit though.

[PGK]

Good stuff for a series of debates
You will never get all hunters on the same side of a table, too much self-serving
You can't force anyone to do something because of someone elses reasoning
Will never resolve what species should have a higher priority than an other
Can hunters make demands about increase/decreasse numbers when the current harvest is meeting needs ?

Pick your battles
I do like your spirit though.

I think in the sake of logic, the sheep need to come first. On a biodiversity basis, elk are found everywhere, and can adapt to virtually every habitat in BC. Protecting and enhancing the sheep populations we have right now needs to be a top priority.

But that said, you're right, and you'll never get everyone on board that kind of ship. It needs the right guy as the spearhead to move forward. Interesting times!!

[6616]

Why, you young whippersnappers !!...Give me my canes and pull this chair closer, I'll show you...!

I fear I've got you all beat by anything between 20 and 30 years...you guys are pups...!

[David Heitsman]

I checked off unsure since I haven't been in there for about 10 years.
But I think in was '99 I had Urs fly me and a buddy into the Mayfield Lakes area and I carried my Zodiac and camp over the hill to the Gataga. We then floated down to the Kechicka and on down to the Liard pulling out at the Liard, soaking wet I may add. Trip took 7 days.
Killed a 260 class 6 X 6 right at the Turnagain confluence after seeing quite a few in the days prior upriver. It was my first elk. The poor 12' Zodiac didn't have much freeboard after loading him in.
I felt that there was quite a bit of jet traffic on the river back than and can only imagine that there is more now. Some of the postings have indicated little or no hunting pressure and I would question that since there are so many more jets on the rivers now than 10 years ago. I think I remember videoing about 30 trucks there that week at the put in. Looked like a new truck dealership parking lot up there.

[GoatGuy]

I checked off unsure since I haven't been in there for about 10 years.
But I think in was '99 I had Urs fly me and a buddy into the Mayfield Lakes area and I carried my Zodiac and camp over the hill to the Gataga. We then floated down to the Kechicka and on down to the Liard pulling out at the Liard, soaking wet I may add. Trip took 7 days.
Killed a 260 class 6 X 6 right at the Turnagain confluence after seeing quite a few in the days prior upriver. It was my first elk. The poor 12' Zodiac didn't have much freeboard after loading him in.
I felt that there was quite a bit of jet traffic on the river back than and can only imagine that there is more now. Some of the postings have indicated little or no hunting pressure and I would question that since there are so many more jets on the rivers now than 10 years ago. I think I remember videoing about 30 trucks there that week at the put in. Looked like a new truck dealership parking lot up there.

Just like everywhere else in BC a lot of trucks/quads or boats means there's a lot of hunters near their transportation and not many far from it.

[David Heitsman]

I actually found it dificult to walk off the rivers anywhere on that trip so likely the hunting is confined to the river banks. It's not like the Tuchodi
with the easy hiking in from the river to closer alpine areas.

Along the Gataga and the upper Kechika the bush and undergrowth was quite thick and as the river valley was so wide there was a lot of marshy areas along the sides of the rivers.

We tried to get to the alpine a couple times and didn't make it due to our inability to find a trail system. I'm sure that the GO's have them in from the river but we didn't any weren't interested in docking at their camp
and walking thru their tents to find their trails in.

It was such a wet week that I was happy to keep floating along. Not to mention that their wasn't an hour go by that be didn't encounter wildlife of some kind.

Would I do it again? Not likely but it was still a pretty cheap trip.

[bridger]

Small trophies is right, especially when you compare them to the monsters they shoot in the EK.:roll:

there have been several bulls taken in the trench that score over 350 one of my friends got a 363 this fall his partner a 347 good bulls anywhere.

[hunter1947]

I have not looked into the population of elk in the Kechika region ,does any one have the numbers of elk in this region for 2008 ????.

I would say open the season for a longer period of time if the population in the Kechika is at a reasonable level.

[GoatGuy]

there have been several bulls taken in the trench that score over 350 one of my friends got a 363 this fall his partner a 347 good bulls anywhere.

I was being sarcastic. ;-)

The folks in the EK shoot something that squeeks over 300 and hit the panic button like they've killed some kind of a MONSTER.

[BCrams]

They start getting excited on the Kechika when the bull hits the 375 mark.

[bridger]

had a discussion with moe officials today about increasing the season on the kechika elk for next season. they are playing conservative for the next year or so until they get a better handle on the total population

[boxhitch]

That sounds like the typical default position for decisions.
They know the pressure is low, and that the harvest of 6-point bulls will not effect population sustainability, and they certainly can't have a target pop. goal.
The same reasons the Bison are over-running their grounds

[PGK]

Ridiculous.

[hunter1947]

Here is some information in the Kechika region.

http://www.ngps.nt.ca/Upload/Interveners/World%20Wildlife%20Fund%20-%20Canada/Attach3_Muskwa-Kechika_Mgmt_Area.pdf

http://www.roundriver.org/documents/MK_CAD_V1.pdf

[BCrams]

had a discussion with moe officials today about increasing the season on the kechika elk for next season. they are playing conservative for the next year or so until they get a better handle on the total population

Whats your take on it?

Conservative? Come on. Who do they think they're fooling? Thats just a plain BS remark. I would say when a guy goes up there on a guided hunt and passes up over 20 bulls scoring over 320 because they're chasing a 375+ bull that there's a fair number of them.

Or when you get a guy who's hunted sheep on the Turnagain for years to all of a sudden start seeing bull elk damn near to the Dall River .......they're certainly spreading. Or when you get a guy seeing elk way the hell down by Fox Lake ...... they're really moving south.

They're all over along the Liard River now as well!!

Its a trophy season only and just the way Darwin and Terminus want it kept at.

Given its remoteness and hard to access ....... a 6 pt season will never hurt and they know it. Havn't they learned anything from the history of elk on the east slopes? As GG believes, you can also have a GOS any bull either sex and those elk are going to keep expanding.

[Maxx]

Whats your take on it?

Conservative? Come on. Who do they think they're fooling? Thats just a plain BS remark. I would say when a guy goes up there on a guided hunt and passes up over 20 bulls scoring over 320 because they're chasing a 375+ bull that there's a fair number of them.

Or when you get a guy who's hunted sheep on the Turnagain for years to all of a sudden start seeing bull elk damn near to the Dall River .......they're certainly spreading. Or when you get a guy seeing elk way the hell down by Fox Lake ...... they're really moving south.

They're all over along the Liard River now as well!!

Its a trophy season only and just the way Darwin and Terminus want it kept at.

Given its remoteness and hard to access ....... a 6 pt season will never hurt and they know it. Havn't they learned anything from the history of elk on the east slopes? As GG believes, you can also have a GOS any bull either sex and those elk are going to keep expanding.


I am not in the know of this specific area, or the amount/whereabouts of the elk- but what you are saying makes sense, it is BS for the MOE to keep this a trophy season for these elk if indeed they are speading like you say. Having spent more time on the east side, I agree that the season could be for either sex, and it wouldn't make much difference at all. If the Ketchika has even less access, it for sure should be a season longer than 10 days...

[bridger]

Whats your take on it?

Conservative? Come on. Who do they think they're fooling? Thats just a plain BS remark. I would say when a guy goes up there on a guided hunt and passes up over 20 bulls scoring over 320 because they're chasing a 375+ bull that there's a fair number of them.

Or when you get a guy who's hunted sheep on the Turnagain for years to all of a sudden start seeing bull elk damn near to the Dall River .......they're certainly spreading. Or when you get a guy seeing elk way the hell down by Fox Lake ...... they're really moving south.

They're all over along the Liard River now as well!!

Its a trophy season only and just the way Darwin and Terminus want it kept at.

Given its remoteness and hard to access ....... a 6 pt season will never hurt and they know it. Havn't they learned anything from the history of elk on the east slopes? As GG believes, you can also have a GOS any bull either sex and those elk are going to keep expanding.


good insight on the problem. our regional bcwf wildlife committee will take this up with the powers to be.

[HD95]

I've seen many elk on the west side of the Turnagain,close to where the Dall river meets the Turnagain.My partner darn near filled the back half of the jet-boat with some dandy elk sheds.Expanding their range way to fast.We actually watched a handful of bulls,bully a mountain goat from a bluff he was relaxing on.

[just hunt]

Here's a old tread i thought was interesting.the new regs are still only showing a 10 day 6 pnt season. This thread was started 3 years ago and no changes untill 2015 maybe.

Any new thoughts on this topic?

[MacMtnHunter]

Would like to see an any elk archery at least!

Yes for sure, or maybe even an early season LEH that aligns with the trophy bull seasson and an opportunity for people with the LEH to take an "additional antlerless" elk... if you want to control a population take out more cows and some of the herd bulls. Would make for some fun hunting anyways!

[MacMtnHunter]

Small trophies is right, especially when you compare them to the monsters they shoot in the EK.:roll:

Yeah right hey! EK monsters... hmmm, Aside from the west koots I have only ever seen a few bulls that would push 300-320 and it's a race to get to them. Gotta love the size on some of these upper trench bulls...I've seen a few that were take off williston this year and the year before...whoppers! The elk populations are only going to get stonger in the north, elk can adapt to pretty much any environment and what is not to like about the norther trench area... it's just too bad that so much will happen up here before wildlife managers get a good idea onhow to handle the situation...sucks that an impact to the sheep winter range will be one of the more majoy results tho.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Yeah right hey! EK monsters... hmmm, Aside from the west koots I have only ever seen a few bulls that would push 300-320 and it's a race to get to them. Gotta love the size on some of these upper trench bulls...I've seen a few that were take off williston this year and the year before...whoppers! The elk populations are only going to get stonger in the north, elk can adapt to pretty much any environment and what is not to like about the norther trench area... it's just too bad that so much will happen up here before wildlife managers get a good idea onhow to handle the situation...sucks that an impact to the sheep winter range will be one of the more majoy results tho.

Come on!!! The regional manager in 7B has done lots since he started!!! Don't forget he removed sheep from Category A Species:confused:.

SSS

[proguide66]

Any elk from july 31 to Oct 31 within 25 miles of any sheep mtn wouldnt make me upset the least !( in the north.)...hell , maybe 2 elk pr license to boot !!

[just hunt]

Any elk from july 31 to Oct 31 within 25 miles of any sheep mtn wouldnt make me upset the least !( in the north.)...hell , maybe 2 elk pr license to boot !!

X2 your so right

[kendoo]

I have spent quite a lot of time up there over the last 40 years and I believe that if the ministry would do a lot of elk habitat enhancement which means burning lots of the lower slops to create more grass it would do 2 things. First give the elk herd a good boost and also relieve some of the pressure off the sheep habitat so both could prosper.
I totaly agree the same should be done on the upper Muskwa.

[.300WSMImpact!]

Any elk from july 31 to Oct 31 within 25 miles of any sheep mtn wouldnt make me upset the least !( in the north.)...hell , maybe 2 elk pr license to boot !!

I may find myself there if these rules were in place

[BCrams]

The elk populations are only going to get stonger in the north, elk can adapt to pretty much any environment and what is not to like about the norther trench area... it's just too bad that so much will happen up here before wildlife managers get a good idea onhow to handle the situation...sucks that an impact to the sheep winter range will be one of the more majoy results tho.

One would assume people would learn from examples such as the east slopes and elk expansion. Changing the season's in the trench will not hurt the elk population but maintaining status quo over the long term allowing for elk population growth can and will hurt the sheep!

[bridger]

It is recognized that the sheep habitat on the east slope has been impacted by the high numbers of elk, and discussion has been about how to increase the harvest. Hunting bulls does nothing for population control, it would be a good thing if more hunters targetted cows but who is going to do a fly-in or river trip for a meat haul ?

I wonder how many antlerless are taken out of 7-50 ?

Then of course there is the arguement for the need for trophy elk hunting and should sheep be given higher consideration than large 6-pt trophys ?

But yes, a ten day trophy season is over-restrictive and politically driven.


good points. I dont have specific numbers of the antlerless harvest in 7-50 but i have seen and heard more coming out than i originally thought.

[bridger]

Even an any elk season in the liard wouldn't do a damn thing. Not enough hunters, not enough access, way too many elk.


Increase the bag limit?

[bridger]

Would you say more thought should be put into it now?


It would be prudent to revisit that season for sure. Remember those elk came from a transplant and when the original season opened was meant to be conservative.

[aggiehunter]

always someone with the right answer.."you don't need an archery only season".....and some snickers to boot....if it ain't gonna hurt it shouldn't matter..

[Cordillera]

I was in the tuchodi for the first time this year and what I saw was significant reduction in visible cows than what was reported to be present before the cow harvest was started. We spoke to the guide and they believe there has been a reduction in the population as a result. Of course the animals will have changed behaviour so it's hard to tell how the cow season has affected real population levels.

And yes we took one cow and saw several parties also harvest cows. If the bulls aren't coming and your trip is ending, taking a cow fills the freezer.

[bridger]

We have been hunting the tuchodi for years. It looks to me like the overall population is now less than half of what is was in the 80's early 90's, the biggest decline i have seen is in the overall number of bulls. It was not uncommon to see a dozen or so of all sizes a day back then. On one unbelievable day miles back from the river we saw over 60 bulls on opening day. Not sure what has caused the decline, probably a variety of reasons. At one time there was a lot of habitat enhancement and predator control in the tuchodi. Very little of either now.

[luckynuts]

I voted yes for the single reason of what the Bison and Elk have done to the sheep winter range around the Sikinni. When the cow elk season opened up in and around the peace it was a great thing, lately locals are saying the bull numbers are down and there are not as many cows. Well I convinced a few landowner/hunters to pick up some trail cameras. All three reported several 5x5 and 6x6 bull elk on their property that they didn't know about prior.

Hunting pressure = change of habits. With the whitetail doe season in effect up here the does now are less likely to stay out longer in the mornings and come out later in the evenings this saves a lot of bucks that would have ventured out in shooting light. Im sure the elk population in 7-50 has been lowered some what though I also think they have adapted to the hunting pressure as well.

Extending the season would be benificial to both the elk and the sheep. lots of good comments on the subject for both sides of the argument.

JMHO

W.

[just hunt]

would spread out the traffic . pretty busy there for those ten days.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just wondering if we'll see any changes in the coming regs??

SSS

[boxhitch]

Not much of interest in the 7B proposals , except a possible new woods bison leh.

a100.gov.bc.ca/pub/ahte/hunting

[40incher]

The 10-day Kechika elk hunt is just another example of a lack of management by our "professional" biologists. The population peaks and valleys due to simplistic regulations.

Wildlife habitat can only support so many ungulates, whatever the species. Elk, sheep, bison, etc ... are all chewing on the same winter habitat. It's not rocket science.

The Kechika elk season is in need of some constructive thinking.

[boxhitch]

More the question then is does the current season meet the demand ?
Winter kill will always be the natural controlling factor , hunter opp is met with the current reg which is the same as the rest of the region.
Bison seasons have been altered to meet overcrowding and quality hunt demands , nothing to due with pop. numbers. Following that , before any change would occur for the Kechika herd , demand would have to go way up imo.

[GoatGuy]

The excuses are: high hunter density, high pressure, increased sheep harvest due to elk hunters, managing it for trophy, and a few other forgotten whisps of air.

Almost as good as "all the resident hunters in toad river want this." Or, "the white-tailed deer here are different." The bison issue is another funny one that shows exactly how things work in that country errr region and a bucket load of other management issues that have been ignored, manipulated, and fudged. Heck it was only 10 years ago when it was discovered the regional manager had handed 77% of the allocation over to non-residents for stone's sheep. The best was the hand in the cookie jar.

7B has always been a special place. Science, research and policy need not apply. At it's consistent.

[hunter7413]

We have been hunting the tuchodi for years. It looks to me like the overall population is now less than half of what is was in the 80's early 90's, the biggest decline i have seen is in the overall number of bulls. It was not uncommon to see a dozen or so of all sizes a day back then. On one unbelievable day miles back from the river we saw over 60 bulls on opening day. Not sure what has caused the decline, probably a variety of reasons. At one time there was a lot of habitat enhancement and predator control in the tuchodi. Very little of either now.
In the winter of 12/13 on one 5 mile stretch of the muskwa river below the tuchodi wolves killed and never came back to eat 10 big bull elk and that's only 1 small area and there is hundreds of miles of drainages that we can't get to to trap these wolves because the rivers don't freeze good enough

[bridger]

Several things make 7b special. Long open seasons, minimum leh, few quad restrictions, lots of hunting opportunities. May be a crazy place, but hard to beat. Aside from that the elk seasons on the kechika and toad need to be re visited for sure. Lots of local me first attitude in toad river ( read g/o)

[bridger]

In the winter of 12/13 on one 5 mile stretch of the muskwa river below the tuchodi wolves killed and never came back to eat 10 big bull elk and that's only 1 small area and there is hundreds of miles of drainages that we can't get to to trap these wolves because the rivers don't freeze good enough

i hear what you are sayin' last time i was at the head of dead dog elk hunting we found 16 wolf kills in the week we were there. The elk numbers we used to see in there resulted from some private hands on management. Sadly not the case anymore.

[hunter7413]

The guide outfitters in this area have lots of money and lots of pull and that is the reason you only have a 10 day season because they don't want people up there for the whole season chasing elk because other animals like sheep,goats and moose always get killed on these elk hunts, bottom line is outfitters have a big say in what us guys do in the bush

[hunter7413]

i hear what you are sayin' last time i was at the head of dead dog elk hunting we found 16 wolf kills in the week we were there. The elk numbers we used to see in there resulted from some private hands on management. Sadly not the case anymore.
I spend thousands of dollars every year with very little return to trap wolves in this area to help the ungulates and I don't even hunt here,this year I never really went after the wolves and may never again until it can start paying for itself,hopefully someone else keeps chasing these wolves

[GoatGuy]

Several things make 7b special. Long open seasons, minimum leh, few quad restrictions, lots of hunting opportunities. May be a crazy place, but hard to beat. Aside from that the elk seasons on the kechika and toad need to be re visited for sure. Lots of local me first attitude in toad river ( read g/o)

7B is certainly well endowed with wildlife - all this despite management.

[bridger]

7B is certainly well endowed with wildlife - all this despite management.

Just think what we could have if we had management instead if politics! Lol!

[gitnadoix]

With the current FN concerns on moose harvest by non FN hunters, the chance that MOE will increase the non FN pressure in the area with increased Elk seasons is ......pretty much zero.....add to that the GO goal of selling 6 point hunts.......we bc rec hunters will not be getting any extra opportunities.

[big game chaser]

I see a lot of guys saying its a pre rut hunt and it should be open for the rut to make better opportunities but just curious if you look at posts here on the tuchodi most guys go for elk last 2 weeks of aug I have also wondered how a guy keeps meat when temperatures are usually in the high 20,s this time of year! I am planning a trip myself for elk but am finding it hard to pick best time to go I think this season is to early!

[hawk-i]

Exactly. So why keep it at a just 10 day 6 pt trophy season?

How else are the outfitters going to have easier pickin's on trophy bulls? The more 6 pt and larger bulls, the more and easier money they make.

[sheep.elk.moose fanatic]

Do the G.O have a longer elk season then residents? My understanding is they have to follow bc hunting regulations and seasons ?

[colemanwsm]

Its an awsome hunt as it is !!! you actually have to go hunt those elk and there is nothing easy about it , its a good challenge and definitly seperates the caliber of hunters . if it was a full rut hunt i dont believe the population or class would sustain as being in that country sept 20th there is 300 - 360 class bulls on every second gravel bar, screaming in the middle of the gataga , generaly being love struck like bull elk get . sept 1-10 th your not killing a trophy bull on a gavel bar , you have to beat him at his own game in his bedroom !49474947

[Spy]

Good read thanks for digging up an oldie. :-)

[hunter1993ap]

that looks like a great bull coleman! I don't think I've ever seen mass quite like that one. congrats, what did that bull score?

[boxhitch]

Just wondering if we'll see any changes in the coming regs??

SSS......................