Should wolves be exterminated?

[Gateholio]

I've seen it suggested that many hunters believe that it would be best if all wolves were to be killed off.

I don't know anyone that believes that we would be better off pushing wolves into extinction. Maybe I am hanging with a different crowd.

Question is simple: Do you believe that BC would be a better place if wolves were completely eradicated?

(It's a somewhat hypothetical question, as it would be virtually impossible to kill them all.)
__________________

[Camp Cook]

What and not be able to shoot them anymore that would be blasphemy...

[mcrae]

Wolves are part of the ecosystem and have their place in it but they also need to be managed.

[ElkMasterC]

Funny, I was just saying to myself:

"Elkmaster", I said, cuz that's what I call myself, "What this site needs is more Wolf killing threads!"

And Lo and Behold!

[ROEBUCK]

it would be a shame if there were no more wolves to hunt/trap.I often listen to them howling right from my balcony, true wilderness sound,cant wait to bag my first. missed them on 2 seperate times, so hoping for third time lucky!

[Bowtime]

I've heard their latest attemps to reduce numbers were to sterilize them. Last time i checked they weren't f****ng the moose, they were killing them!!

[PGK]

I've heard their latest attemps to reduce numbers were to sterilize them. Last time i checked they weren't f****ng the moose, they were killing them!!

Did you bother to understand why they were sterilizing wolves? Or did you just assume it was stupid?

[elker]

I voted the second.

But we have to admit that there is a predator hugging culture in this world. we see it everywhere. And there are so many people are fabricating the fairy tales that wolves don't eat humans, sharks don't eat humans .....

They are ok to hug any animals they want, but just don't tell lies.

[elkdom]

wolves are part of the wilderness Mystique of BC, BC without any wolves would be a sad day, the same as any other wildlife species we enjoy in BC, if a season is available, then it is our privilege to harvest any species within the Statutes of BC, MOE guidelines and quotas. I wouldn't shoot the last wolf in BC, but I may shoot the second to last! :cool:

[elkdom]

Did you bother to understand why they were sterilizing wolves? Or did you just assume it was stupid?
sterilizing wolves makes about as much sense as giving them an overdose of "VIAGRA" hence the wolves may also screw them selves into oblivion! or die of fatigue !:eek:

[PGK]

sterilizing wolves makes about as much sense as giving them an overdose of "VIAGRA" hence the wolves may also screw them selves into oblivion! or die of fatigue !:eek:

Actually, it works quite well at reducing wolf densities. Expensive, but effective.

[whitetailsheds]

Wolves are part of the ecosystem and have their place in it but they also need to be managed.

x2. I enjoy hearing them as part of my experiences while out and about. Just like bugling elk. Or a grunting bull moose. I also like the opportunity to hunt them.

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) I see 95% of the guys responding to the poll have a logical, intelligent opinion. That gives me renewed faith in my fellow man...:smile:

[ElkMasterC]

sterilizing wolves makes about as much sense as giving them an overdose of "VIAGRA" hence the wolves may also screw them selves into oblivion! or die of fatigue !:eek:


YEEEHAWWWWW!!!!

The Voice of Reason is here!

Thank God!

http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/BunnyPancake.gif

[elkdom]

YEEEHAWWWWW!!!!

The Voice of Reason is here!

Thank God!


http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj313/Heliox18/hitlerbanjo.gif
you sure have an obnoxious cake hole!:lol:

[mfarrally]

Ya anyone who is dumb enough to think wolves don't serve a purpose in the ecosystem and should be wiped out are the same idiots that give hunters a bad name. Hunters I know have a great respect for animals, which makes me proud to be one, and it is frustrating to hear the ignorant views of i hope a very small percentage of hunters. Shoot them if ya want, cause hell i would given the chance. But to exterminate them completely would be a sad day for Canada and BC and i would be ashamed to have anything to do with it.

[Ciskman]

wolves are part of the balance and needed...as are we. I voted for the second

[mrdoog]

Eradicate wolves? Has someone been pooping in your well?

No wolves would mean the forests would be over run with girls dressed in red cloaks, looking for Grandma's house. An awful situation for sure.

[Gunner]

Eradication is not an alternative,it wouldn't be the same without wolves,grizzlys and other predators.BC would be a lesser place without them.However,control when needed in specific areas is also needed,and I do not believe any hunter should feel badly for taking a wolf in a legal season,I know I would if given the opportunity.I most certainly do not hate wolves,they are part of the country I hunt,I accept and enjoy that fact. Gunner

[kastles]

Wolves are a part of this world and no species should be destroyed. Everything is here for balance. We hunt them so our deer, moose, carriboo populations do not go down where we loose our hunting privilege. If wolf populations get that low there should be restrictions on hunting them until their populations are up again.

kastles

[Dannybuoy]

I've seen it suggested that many hunters believe that it would be best if all wolves were to be killed off.

I don't know anyone that believes that we would be better off pushing wolves into extinction. Maybe I am hanging with a different crowd.

Question is simple: Do you believe that BC would be a better place if wolves were completely eradicated?

(It's a somewhat hypothetical question, as it would be virtually impossible to kill them all.)
__________________
Yah thats what I think .... If they are half as smart/resilent as coyotes .... yotes have subdivisions as safety nets.. wolves have parks ..

[dutchie]

Ya anyone who is dumb enough to think wolves don't serve a purpose in the ecosystem and should be wiped out are the same idiots that give hunters a bad name.

First off, Great thread Gatehouse and I did vote for #2

But for the quote, I think that the facts voiced like this, these are also people that give hunters bad names because, to me, it is like saying "I am right and you are wrong", and not respecting someone elses opinion because it differs from thiers.

I agree that people that don't think about the reactions, to thier initial actions are the people that disturb the balance, and I also do agree with most of the statement.

BUT with that being said this is the way PETA acts, and I for one refuse to replicate the "I am right and you are wrong" attitude and trying to force the education on someone.

dutchie

[guest]

No they shouldn't, just managed..... as man is a huge part of the equation, and any hunter or non-hunter that wants total destruction of any species or kind I think needs to have their head read.
Should we kill every African Lion, or Alligator ?? Blue Whale, I think not, all wild life on this planet needs to be managed though, including Grizzly Bear and Wolves, but some places on this earth can support a harvestable population.
Including here in BC....... It is ALL about management of ALL wild life.
CT

[olharley guy]

Howdy, voted number 2 also.

As I said in one of my first posts, being new to the forum but reading it for quite a while now, I am sure comments about total extinction of wolves is just a way to get everyones dander up and get people excited and make off the cuff comments to get more silly comments in reply. ( No one who enjoys being in the bush would actually say this and mean it,I hope)

It is very interesting to see how the comments come in and a little negativity and anger showing. LOL

[Johnnybear]

I have only seen in person 1 pack of wolves on the Island(they were probably 500 yards away on the other side of a valley and all I could see was them running between the trees). I have heard them a few times and I have come across sign many times. Kinda eery and cool at the same time when your hunting deer, stalking, and come across fresh wolve sign that's still real moist etc.. I came across a fawn last year that had the throat bit wide open but other than that nothing else was eatin (except the eyes by Ravens) and looked a few weeks old.

I voted #2.

[yamadirt 426]

#2. Wolves have their place. In fact everything is here for a reason. Even the antis, I just haven't figured out what they're good for yet.

[Johnnybear]

#2. Wolves have their place. In fact everything is here for a reason. Even the antis, I just haven't figured out what they're good for yet.

A laugh and some thought:lol:.

[Gateholio]

Soooo..........It turns out that he vast majority of people here DON'T feel that the "only good wolf is a dead wolf" and "All wolves should be exterminated"

Pretty much puts an end to the "Disrespect to wolves" theory.;-)

[Johnnybear]

Soooo..........It turns out that he vast majority of people here DON'T feel that the "only good wolf is a dead wolf" and "All wolves should be exterminated"

Pretty much puts an end to the "Disrespect to wolves" theory.;-)

Here, Here. Thanks for this thread Gates. Good on ya:cool:.

[ElkMasterC]

Soooo..........It turns out that he vast majority of people here DON'T feel that the "only good wolf is a dead wolf" and "All wolves should be exterminated"

Pretty much puts an end to the "Disrespect to wolves" theory.;-)



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/bombtrak/mission-accomplished.png

Congratulations, Mr Bush.

[Johnnybear]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y250/bombtrak/mission-accomplished.png

Congratulations, Mr Bush.

Sorry but I'm pretty sure Mr. Bush would want em all dead;-). If not him his daddy's crony Dick you know who would for sure:lol:. That is if he didn't shoot his hunting partner first:eek:.

Sorry for the fall along hijack Clark :cool:.

[1/2 slam]

number 2 as well

[kinderdoggin]

Funny, I was just saying to myself:

"Elkmaster", I said, cuz that's what I call myself, "What this site needs is more Wolf killing threads!"

And Lo and Behold!


HAHAHAHA!!! And that's how you start the morning off right.

[nanaimochen]

i vote the 2nd. I like to see them in the forest and hear their howl . A ecosystem without predators (like wolf) is not a healthy ecosystem and is a boring system.

[Bowtime]

Did you bother to understand why they were sterilizing wolves? Or did you just assume it was stupid?


So what percentage on the poll are you PGK?? Because I think if you put that much effort (MONEY) into catching them it would make sense to kill them to reduce numbers not sterilize them. That does not reduce the numbers at all. Unless you sterilize all of them. Is that what they are going for PGK?? Is that what I should have thought about? Because in the long run we all know that would not go over well. All I'm saying is that it is a STUPID idea and waste of MONEY!! The only way to reduce the numbers in a safe and effective way is to trap and kill. Did you ever think about that before you assumed i was stupid??

[Bowtime]

Actually, it works quite well at reducing wolf densities. Expensive, but effective.


No, it works well at keeping wolf densities. Which are too high at the moment. Expensive, NOT effective.

[PGK]

So what percentage on the poll are you PGK?? Because I think if you put that much effort (MONEY) into catching them it would make sense to kill them to reduce numbers not sterilize them. That does not reduce the numbers at all. Unless you sterilize all of them. Is that what they are going for PGK?? Is that what I should have thought about? Because in the long run we all know that would not go over well. All I'm saying is that it is a STUPID idea and waste of MONEY!! The only way to reduce the numbers in a safe and effective way is to trap and kill. Did you ever think about that before you assumed i was stupid??

I never said you were stupid. But you clearly don't know how wolf packs interact. Normally, only the alpha male breeds. So when they snip him, there is no reproduction, and the pack will typically fragment. Really, it's not as effective as killing them in the long run, but it's a lot more palatable to the general public to sterilize then, which is nearly as effective in the short term.

Again, we have the KILL THEM ALL mentality from so many hunters, mostly because they do not understand much about wolves at all. If I had a quarter for every time I heard 'wolves ate all the moose in my area' I wouldn't be as poor as I am! I didn't vote, because I don't feel like voting on any of the options presented.

[Will]

Sure sterilization works to keep the pack's current numbers in check......it however accomplishes nothing when the numbers are higher then the game animals in the area can sustain.

Even Neutered wolves eat too.......

Just a thought :wink:

[PGK]

Sure sterilization works to keep the pack's current numbers in check......it does not accomplish anything when the numbers are higher then the game animals in the area can sustain.

Even Neutered wolves eat too.......

Just a thought :wink:

Clearly. But, there's no point in arguing sterilization isn't effective when a number of jurisdictions have shown it to be quite effective. I said before and I'll say again, do you want to be the biologist in charge when the public finds out you started allowing helicopter gun ships to take wolves out? I didn't think so....

[Will]

I said before and I'll say again, do you want to be the biologist in charge when the public finds out you started allowing helicopter gun ships to take wolves out? I didn't think so....

Better to take a little flak short term, then be singled out as the one that sat on his hands and did nothing while the wolf numbers continue to soar......it's all about perspective.

[deer nut]

What a bizarre question! Hunted yes, but to extinction? Get real!!

[PGK]

Better to take a little flak short term, then be singled out as the one that sat on his hands and did nothing while the wolf numbers continue to soar......it's all about perspective.

But there's no conclusive data that shows wolf numbers are increasing.....we know they are doing well, but there's nothing to say the BC wolf population is increasing or decreasing........

[Rubicon500]

I dont know why they just dont feed all the wolfs so they wont kill any of the beautiful animals. Maybe they could go and give all the female wolves some birth control while they feed them, like put it inside a furry little bunny wabit. Then they wont have as many pups if the male forgets to pull out :biggrin:

[RiverOtter]

But there's no conclusive data that shows wolf numbers are increasing.....we know they are doing well, but there's nothing to say the BC wolf population is increasing or decreasing........

I can't speak for all of B.C., but I can definately attest to increasing numbers in my locale. Don't need some guy at a desk in Penticton to confirm/deny what I'm seeing with my own eyes.

[Gateholio]

Again, we have the KILL THEM ALL mentality from so many hunters, mostly because they do not understand much about wolves at all. .

Again we hear this nonsense...

Yet the people that have voted OVERWHELMINGLY did not agree with "KILL THEM ALL"
:roll:






PS Just click on the numbers on the poll. It will tell you who voted for what

[elkdom]

I can't speak for all of B.C., but I can definately attest to increasing numbers in my locale. Don't need some guy at a desk in Penticton to confirm/deny what I'm seeing with my own eyes.

X2 for areas I hunt and drive through (about 1500 klms a month), many wilderness areas, along with rural ranching areas I see more and more wolf sign, sightings and kill sites , some areas calf moose are almost absent , although in summer and fall there was about 3 calves to every 4 cows I observed, now about 2 calves in 6/7 cows ratio! and so far I haven't observed ANY "ticked up moose", definitely more wolf sightings the last couple of winters here in the 7b zones I frequent! we defiantly need LESS wolves in region 7b! and as a final note, I know of very few elk/moose/deer hunters that bother to HUNT or pursue wolves in the winter! I usually do my best to use my yearly wolf allotment of (3) per hunting license year!8-) some years more if Im hunting private land, predator control,
zoom, click, boom,,,

[Will]

But there's no conclusive data that shows wolf numbers are increasing.....we know they are doing well, but there's nothing to say the BC wolf population is increasing or decreasing........
Now you sound like a Liberal............:roll:

[RiverOtter]

Again we hear this nonsense...

Yet the people that have voted OVERWHELMINGLY did not agree with "KILL THEM ALL"
:roll:

What do you expect from a guy who's had at least 3 name changes, is under 20 years old and sees hybrids on every outing.

I'm thinking he has a major case of the munchies.........:p

[Bowtime]

Now you sound like a Liberal............:roll:


I hear it too Will.

[PGK]

Now you sound like a Liberal............:roll:

For posting the truth!!!??? Have you been out and done any sightability model aerial counts for wolves over the last decade and have some numbers to prove wolves are on the increase? Or are we just going to jump to conclusions because 'everybody sees more wolves' ???

Maybe you're hunting different, maybe the landscape has changed (clearcuts, agriculture) and allows you to see things in places you haven't. Maybe a fire increased the survival of elk in an area and this caused a wolf pack that wasn't in your hunting area to move to your hunting area.....you're seeing more wolves, that doesn't automatically correlate to an increase in wolf numbers!

And yeah, Bowtime basically said we need to start helicopter gunning wolves because he feels the population has exploded.....isn't that a 'kill them off'' mentality?????

[PGK]

What do you expect from a guy who's had at least 3 name changes, is under 20 years old and sees hybrids on every outing.

I'm thinking he has a major case of the munchies.........:p

I'm 22...try and keep up with what year it is. I was 17 when we were talking about hybrid deer, and even BCrams got over it...and I've never touched dope in my life

[horshur]

have they done recent surveys or not??? It may or may not be the truth.

the fact that my survey cards that came in the mail asked about wolves and the fact that they have liberlized seasons would suggest that maybe some think numbers might be higher than average.

what you realy should present...and what has been suggested at BC Cattlemens meetings is the possibility that removing the wolves that predate on livestock only. Rather than all the wolves, reduces predation because it seems some wolves behave better than others when it comes to livestock.
Killing of the better behaved wolves increases the chance of stock killers moving in.

Another interesting tidbit that for sure won't meet your science bias that I heard from a wolf trapper......he suggested he must think of ranchers who have so many deer in there stacks that wolves keep his losses down by keeping deer#s down. He would rather kill them all but concedes they do have a purpose.LOL

[thatskindafunny]

The question was should all wolves be exterminated.?
My answer is NO. yup thats a period.

[Will]

Have you been out and done any sightability model aerial counts for wolves over the last decade and have some numbers to prove wolves are on the increase? Or are we just going to jump to conclusions because 'everybody sees more wolves' ???

Wolf numbers have risen the last 5 years in this Province........but better we just continue to debate about numbers and do nothing.
Eventually they'll die off anyways....

...when everything else does to:wink:


And what the hell is a "sightability model aerial count" ?

Sounds very sophisticated............ :lol:

:roll:

[PGK]

Wolf numbers have risen the last 5 years in this Province........but better we just continue to debate about numbers and do nothing.
Eventually they'll die off anyways....

...when everything else does to:wink:


And what the hell is a "sightability model aerial count" ?

Sounds very sophisticated............ :lol:

:roll:

Well like you know, whatever and stuff. Let's just make some huge assumptions about population estimates. If a bio 'assumed' the population of elk had doubled in region five last year, wouldn't you be concerned???

[horshur]

have they done any flights recently or not????

fact is they have and numbers are high...

[Will]

Well like you know, whatever and stuff.

Not sure why your so defensive......wanna discuss things intelligently then learn to listen to all oppinions....not just your own.

If FACTS are all you need then go out and have a look for yourself......anyone that has spent more then 5 minutes off the couch in the last few winters will tell you the same thing...the numbers are high :wink:

Now relax and go photograph the hybrid herds......before the wolves eat them all ! :grin:

[PGK]

Not sure why your so defensive......wanna discuss things intelligently then learn to listen to all oppinions....not just your own.

If FACTS are all you need then go out and have a look for yourself......anyone that has spent more then 5 minutes off the couch in the last few winters will tell you the same thing...the numbers are high :wink:

Now relax and go photograph the hybrid herds......before the wolves eat them all ! :grin:

I'm not being defensive, I'm just saying noone is 100% certain whether or not the number of wolves in BC has increased or decreased. Making those kinds of assumptions is never a good plan.....there is no data to support or revoke such a claim. I agree that there *appears* to be a greater number of wolves out there. Am I going to correlate the fact that I shot at my first wolf this year to higher wolf densities? No. I'm going to correlate it to spending more time in productive wolf habitat.....

[Will]

I'm going to correlate it to spending more time in productive wolf habitat.....
That's just it though....seems everywhere now is "productive wolf habitat" :wink:

Congrats on the wolf, if I missed it BTW ! :cool:

[PGK]

That's just it though....seems everywhere now is "productive wolf habitat" :wink:

Congrats on the wolf, if I missed it BTW ! :cool:

Shooting at does not constitute hitting!! :lol:

[Will]

Shooting at does not constitute hitting!!
Missed the "shooting at it" part.....jumped right to the kill ! Once again my assumption. :lol:

Oh well, a shot at one is still more then most get ! :wink:

[PGK]

Missed the "shooting at it" part.....jumped right to the kill ! Once again my assumption. :lol:

Oh well, a shot at one is still more then most get ! :wink:

4 shots :(

:biggrin:

[beastman]

4 shots :(

:biggrin:
please go on...........:grin:

[PGK]

please go on...........:grin:

I missed a wolf four times at over 300y because I am a N00B, OK!? Let's move on from my failure! :lol:

[beastman]

I missed a wolf four times at over 300y because I am a N00B, OK!? Let's move on from my failure! :lol:
at least you kept trying.
i was just curious of range

[PGK]

at least you kept trying.
i was just curious of range

It was kind of silly, but I knew I could hit him, it was just a matter of having run 800y in snowshoes before the shooting commenced. There was some wobble involved

[Stone Sheep Steve]

It was kind of silly, but I knew I could hit him, it was just a matter of having run 800y in snowshoes before the shooting commenced. There was some wobble involved

You shouldn't shoot after drinking:wink:.....and a .22 will not kill a wolf @300yds:wink:.......but don't stop trying.


Hmmm....no hard data on wolf numbers. Sure, okay.... but go ask the cattlemen in the North OK what's eating all their cattle in the last few years. Big, hairy, dog-like beasts. Wolves??? They're not scientists so they must not be wolves:roll:.

If an old timer spends 30-50 years pounding the same bush and he tells you that he has never seem so much wolf sign....well....... sometimes you need to listen to what he's saying.....instead of telling him that he can't prove it...."His observations are not Scientific!"

While not "science", "experience" and "common sense" aren't two things to be tossed in the garbage.

One day you might realize that.

Let's hope so.

SSS

[PGK]

You shouldn't shoot after drinking:wink:.....and a .22 will not kill a wolf @300yds:wink:.......but don't stop trying.


Hmmm....no hard data on wolf numbers. Sure, okay.... but go ask the cattlemen in the North OK what's eating all their cattle in the last few years. Big, hairy, dog-like beasts. Wolves??? They're not scientists so they must not be wolves:roll:.

If an old timer spends 30-50 years pounding the same bush and he tells you that he has never seem so much wolf sign....well....... sometimes you need to listen to what he's saying.....instead of telling him that he can't prove it...."His observations are not Scientific!"

While not "science", "experience" and "common scence" aren't two things to be tossed in the garbage.

One day you might realize that.

Let's hope so.

SSS

Steve, read back through my posts and you will realize that is not what I have been saying at all. I have been saying that since people see more wolf sign, it does not correlate to more wolves.....any number of things could make it appear that there are more critters out there.....prime example the reg 5 deer thread. Nobody is seeing very many big bucks.....does not mean there are less big bucks? Well, nobody's really sure. Probably not. It's like dana said, a number of factors combining to change some simple things around the timing of when the deer may or may not be in an area you are more likely to see them.

Experience has its value. But without the insight into all the possible factors, all you're left with at the end of the day is assumptions. I see more wolf tracks = there are more wolves. Not necessarily true...

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Steve, read back through my posts and you will realize that is not what I have been saying at all. I have been saying that since people see more wolf sign, it does not correlate to more wolves.....any number of things could make it appear that there are more critters out there.....prime example the reg 5 deer thread. Nobody is seeing very many big bucks.....does not mean there are less big bucks? Well, nobody's really sure. Probably not. It's like dana said, a number of factors combining to change some simple things around the timing of when the deer may or may not be in an area you are more likely to see them.

Experience has its value. But without the insight into all the possible factors, all you're left with at the end of the day is assumptions. I see more wolf tracks = there are more wolves. Not necessarily true...

I don't weigh everyone's personal observations the same(most you can take with a grain of salt) ...but some people on this site are pretty dialed to what's really going on out there. They(and their friends and asscociate....eg. trappers, cattlemen) spend a lot of time in the bush and know that trends in wildlife do occur. They don't make quick knee-jerk conclusions based on one day or even just one season's observations.
Sure they're not biologists but they probably spend more time in the field that most bios.

SSS

[RiverOtter]

So PGK,

What makes a "biologists" findings carry so much more weight than say a trapper, a rancher, a hunter(especially one who spends a fair bit of time chasing predators in the winter). I personally know of 2 different ranchers who have purchased super cub size planes in the past 5 years, to monitor range cattle, so that advantage is not limited to only biologists.

Are a biologists eyes superior, can he communicate with the wolves, do they leave special cencus notes at popular feeding sites......????

You must have some serious data to share with us, since you've been in the real world for a whole 4 years now(My how time fly's...... :( ) , assuming you didn't go to college/university.

[BCrams]

From what I have heard from others and what I personally observed the last 3-4 years, I believe wolf numbers have increased. More so in some areas than others. No question about it.

[Rock Doctor]

I work out in the bush (for half the yr I am not within 100km of any town), and live in the country. I have 3 Buffalo ranches around my area. What I have seen, and the number of complaints coming from the ranchers would indicate that there are either more Wolves around, or they are moving into areas where they avoided in the past.
I have no interest in exterminating them, but I think they should be taught to fear man.

RD

[horshur]

what do bioligist do anyway?..........I have never in 30 years seen one in the field. Pardon me I only once seen one....on his day off hiking.

[yukon john]

But there's no conclusive data that shows wolf numbers are increasing.....we know they are doing well, but there's nothing to say the BC wolf population is increasing or decreasing........

Get outta the library and into the bush as for sterilization effective or not 1080 is cheap and nobody will question if that works

[ohno]

Great poll Gatehouse.

I voted before I looked at the results. Not a surprising result.

[Bowtime]

And yeah, Bowtime basically said we need to start helicopter gunning wolves because he feels the population has exploded.....isn't that a 'kill them off'' mentality?????

I know for a fact the wolf numbers are not acceptable at this time. As for my Kill them off Mentality, " I do think it would make more sense to have a dead wolf then a sterilized wolf running around." And to reduce numbers you have to "kill" them.

[Gateholio]

Anyone with any shred of experience knows that wolf numbers are up in many areas of BC.

It is becoming common place for normal people (non hunters) to see wolves

Wolf complaints from ranchers and farmers are up

Wolves have been dragging pet dogs out of their yards to consume

Wolf sign is all over the bush

Wolf seasons have been extended to 10 months per year in a number of MU's

I think some of these signs point to an increase in Wolf numbers...:wink:

[The MAN]

Leave wolves as no bag limit during the season, not that many will be shot as they are smart, animals like that don't do so well unless they are very adaptive to new environments etc.. Look at Yellowstone, the population just exploded and now they are talking about killing a few off.

[BlacktailStalker]

Exterminate them with crossbows.

[olharley guy]

what do bioligist do anyway?..........I have never in 30 years seen one in the field. Pardon me I only once seen one....on his day off hiking.

Re this comment, I believe they do a lot of comparing data on their computers with Farley Mowatt and his excellent wolf study he did for his book. HA!

Some biologists - game branch people would actually call me a few years back and ask me what I had been seeing for game during the winter - (minimal budget for flying) unless they were after a Northern B.C. outfitter for some stupid infraction. LOL

As said in another post I really don't think the Gov't. has the budget to allow an extensive aerial survey to count wolves, so why not let the ranchers and outfitters do it for them with their own planes. I am sure they would jump at the chance to even do a little controlling-with a permit of course.

A few years ago in the spring there was a B.C. biologist that came to Watson Lake to do a moose count from Lower Post B.C. down the highway to Fireside where there was a huge burn area. About 300 sq. miles of burnt out area.

She rented a double track Ski-doo and was believe it or not was going to look for moose droppings to analyze, to see how many bulls and cows were in the area??

I offered to take her for a plane ride in the Cub to show her 30 to 50 moose that winter in that area but she declined saying that she wouldn't be able to tell if they were bulls or cows for sure as the horns had dropped.

I told her that with 90% accuracy we could tell the difference - in 3 feet of snow if you flew past a bull they would just blunder their way through the willows and saplings where a cow runs lifting its legs higher as most were pregnant and don't want to take a chance of tripping on a buried log or whatever. She looked at me as if I was nuts.

Two days later she was back, 2 moose nugget samples if I remember right and said she spent 6 hours per day stuck, even with reverse,the ski was going under fallen trees from the fire and her and her partner spent most of the time digging themselves out. The 2 girls probably lost 15 lbs. in those 2 days. No second offer to go flying!

This was just another example where I sort of wonder about the reports the biologists give to the public. As was said earlier in the discussion ask the guides and ranchers etc. they do no what they are talking about even if they only have grade 9-10 in schooling. Later

And once again - no total destruction of wolves, just a good cull when neede to keep the human meat eaters happy.

.

[DawgGone]

I've seen it suggested that many hunters believe that it would be best if all wolves were to be killed off.

I don't know anyone that believes that we would be better off pushing wolves into extinction. Maybe I am hanging with a different crowd.

Question is simple: Do you believe that BC would be a better place if wolves were completely eradicated?

(It's a somewhat hypothetical question, as it would be virtually impossible to kill them all.)
__________________

:shock:Not exterminated but certainly regulated.

[ElkMasterC]

Exterminate them with crossbows.

Well they'd be pretty safe if they can recover from wounds well.

[hunter1947]

Trapping wolves is part of managing them ,controlling wolves is a must and not to terminate them.

[PGK]

Actually you are both a bit off. Fertility control has been shown to work for reducing predation on caribou (and moose of course) but ONLY when coupled with removals of the remainder of the pack (or at least as many as possible). If you read the info out there for mountain caribou, the intent is to reduce the pack to the sterile alpha pair. As long as you are doing this over a broad enough area they can hold the territory (so that a new or adjacent pack does not just kill & replace them) and when they den (because they will still try to den) you don't get all the sub-dominants spreading out over the landscape on their own or in pairs, bringing back nice, small, easy to capture prey... like caribou calves.

The issue with caribou is predation on calves, not mature animals (still an issue, but not the primary concern).

Sterilization without coupling with removals will have minimal, if any, impact on predation rates on calves.

Of course, it's all so perfectly black and white! Thanks for clearing all that up!

[NightOwl74]

I've personally observed wolves while hunting in northern Alberta for whitetails. I don't understand how someone can shoot anything they don't eat. They are so gorgeous and they survive under the harshest conditions. Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit like a pussy when you blow away a dog? These northern Alberta whitail trips with my uncles were supposed to be a stress reliever for me, yet the memories will always be tarnished because one of my uncles shoots wolves and he almost had a shot off at a beautiful black one while I looked on. And for what.......a rug? I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself I guess because he's my mom's brother. But it left a sour taste.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I've personally observed wolves while hunting in northern Alberta for whitetails. I don't understand how someone can shoot anything they don't eat. They are so gorgeous and they survive under the harshest conditions. Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit like a pussy when you blow away a dog? These northern Alberta whitail trips with my uncles were supposed to be a stress reliever for me, yet the memories will always be tarnished because one of my uncles shoots wolves and he almost had a shot off at a beautiful black one while I looked on. And for what.......a rug? I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself I guess because he's my mom's brother. But it left a sour taste.

Ranchers in the North OK done't feel quite like you.

Feel like a pussy?? Hmmmmmmmm......my Aunt is a softie but after loosing a couple of cats to yotes she begged my to come attempt to thin them out.
Feel like a pussy??
Not.:|

SSS

[proguide66]

I've personally observed wolves while hunting in northern Alberta for whitetails. I don't understand how someone can shoot anything they don't eat. They are so gorgeous and they survive under the harshest conditions. Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit like a pussy when you blow away a dog? These northern Alberta whitail trips with my uncles were supposed to be a stress reliever for me, yet the memories will always be tarnished because one of my uncles shoots wolves and he almost had a shot off at a beautiful black one while I looked on. And for what.......a rug? I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself I guess because he's my mom's brother. But it left a sour taste.
Would you be able to shoot a skinny , sick animal if it was starving due to over population and not enough food?

[Wildfoot]

saw a nice big black wolf up scotch creek a couple weeks back. too close to people walkin dogs to be sure enough to take a shot though. heard him howling for a good hour up the hillside.

[Dannybuoy]

Wow ! X2 SSS , I would also add that by thinning out the wolf population , you are not only "getting a rug" but helping the other forest creature population . If I was a rancher protecting my flock/herd then thats different .... I would kill all the varmints that I saw

[Dannybuoy]

Would you be able to shoot a skinny , sick animal if it was starving due to over population and not enough food?
Yah !! :smile:

[mcrae]

I've personally observed wolves while hunting in northern Alberta for whitetails. I don't understand how someone can shoot anything they don't eat. They are so gorgeous and they survive under the harshest conditions. Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit like a pussy when you blow away a dog? These northern Alberta whitail trips with my uncles were supposed to be a stress reliever for me, yet the memories will always be tarnished because one of my uncles shoots wolves and he almost had a shot off at a beautiful black one while I looked on. And for what.......a rug? I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself I guess because he's my mom's brother. But it left a sour taste.

Don't worry my buddies got him for ya...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/sako555/scan0001.jpg

[Johnnybear]

I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself

Really?........... by posting it on here for thousands to see:?.

[RiverOtter]

Somewhere a bridge is missing its troll.....

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Don't worry my buddies got him for ya...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/sako555/scan0001.jpg

That's got to be one of the coolest colored wolves that I've seen:cool:


SSS

[M.Dean]

You Know, after what those Wolves tried to do to Goldie Locks, I say kill them on site! Herd them onto the thin ice and shoot them like the pig dogs they are!!!

[mcrae]

That's got to be one of the coolest colored wolves that I've seen:cool:


SSS


I wish we had skinned it out like we planned to. We got side tracked with moose hunting though and little wolfie got forgotten. I believe they got seven wolves that day and that was the only one that was colored like that...It was shot by either my brother or one of the other guys in camp can't remember. They caught a pack crossing a road and ran out of ammo:shock::shock::shock::shock: they nailed them hard that day...

[Bowtime]

I've personally observed wolves while hunting in northern Alberta for whitetails. I don't understand how someone can shoot anything they don't eat. They are so gorgeous and they survive under the harshest conditions. Doesn't it make you feel just a little bit like a pussy when you blow away a dog? These northern Alberta whitail trips with my uncles were supposed to be a stress reliever for me, yet the memories will always be tarnished because one of my uncles shoots wolves and he almost had a shot off at a beautiful black one while I looked on. And for what.......a rug? I kept my contempt for his bullshit to myself I guess because he's my mom's brother. But it left a sour taste.

I've also observed wolves in the wild. Last fall I came across a pack of wolves on a fresh kill. They had taken down a healthy cow moose in october, no snow yet either. I'm unsure how many there were in all but I killed two with one shot. As I walked up to the cow moose she started to moan and groan. They were eating her alive!! Most of her ass was eaten out and her stomach was torn open. I can't say I ever want to experience that again. I will assume you have never experienced anything like NightOwl74. I have no problem shooting any wolf.

[Monashee]

I've also observed wolves in the wild. Last fall I came across a pack of wolves on a fresh kill. They had taken down a healthy cow moose in october, no snow yet either. I'm unsure how many there were in all but I killed two with one shot. As I walked up to the cow moose she started to moan and groan. They were eating her alive!! Most of her ass was eaten out and her stomach was torn open. I can't say I ever want to experience that again. I will assume you have never experienced anything like NightOwl74. I have no problem shooting any wolf.

That is just wolves being wolves . I have no problem with them eating animals alive, not a pleasant thing with fellow mammals but this goes on throughout the food chain.

I have no problem with people shooting wolves where needed . Wolves do seem to bring out strong opinions with some people .

Personally I admire wolves but I wouldn't hesitate to drop one or more when required.

[ElkMasterC]

Somewhere a bridge is missing its troll.....

Precisely, well said.

[Long bow]

I voted #2.
Bioligists also say the grizzly numbers are down...they'd know different if they left their computers and went into the back country. I believe chopper culls should be restarted..that way a proper count can be established..see what there is for kill sites and count other critters..and if they cut a pack of 9, reduce it to 5, or whatever number they choose. If they cut 5, drop it to 3..thats effective managment..AND, they will have current stats. If I see one, I'll shoot it and think of the other critters I have saved.
.Like coyotes...if you cant see em, there are to many...if you can see em...there are way to many

[PGK]

I voted #2.
Bioligists also say the grizzly numbers are down...they'd know different if they left their computers and went into the back country. I believe chopper culls should be restarted..that way a proper count can be established..see what there is for kill sites and count other critters..and if they cut a pack of 9, reduce it to 5, or whatever number they choose. If they cut 5, drop it to 3..thats effective managment..AND, they will have current stats. If I see one, I'll shoot it and think of the other critters I have saved.
.Like coyotes...if you cant see em, there are to many...if you can see em...there are way to many

There is no credible biologist in this province saying grizzly bear numbers are low.....the biologists I know are currently flying around net gunning caribou and putting cameras on their radio collars.....

Jumping to conclusions! BAD!

[Bowtime]

That is just wolves being wolves . I have no problem with them eating animals alive, not a pleasant thing with fellow mammals but this goes on throughout the food chain.

Thanks Tips. Think im not aware of this??

[Stone Sheep Steve]

There is no credible biologist in this province saying grizzly bear numbers are low.....the biologists I know are currently flying around net gunning caribou and putting cameras on their radio collars.....

Jumping to conclusions! BAD!

Dr. Suzuki thinks that the numbers are not high enough for a sustainable hunt.

Oh, that's right....you said "credible biologist";-).

SSS

[hunter1947]

Yes there are places where there are few wolves and then there are places where there are hi populations.

In the areas where wolves are hi in numbers there is only one sulotion ,they have to be controled and that is they only way to bring them down to a exceptical level.

Mr Suzuki should look into what the wolves have done to the deer here on Vancover Island in the past 20 years.

[PGK]

Dr. Suzuki thinks that the numbers are not high enough for a sustainable hunt.

Oh, that's right....you said "credible biologist";-).

SSS

Sorry, credible MINISTRY biologist :roll:

;)

[Long bow]

There is no credible biologist in this province saying grizzly bear numbers are low.....the biologists I know are currently flying around net gunning caribou and putting cameras on their radio collars.....

Jumping to conclusions! BAD!

No jump my friend..we ran into a group of 4 Bioligista out by Red Fern..and they were adament that the pop was way down..funny thing, My partner had just shot one(out of 4) that ran at him..dropped 6 feet away with 4 hits from a 300WSM,,,His ATV seat(600 m away) was shreaded....and back at his new GMC truck(21 clicks to the road, parking area), he had 2700.00 worth of damage from a grizzly that had smashed out the side window of his truck cap..scratched all the paint one roof and side, punctured a tire, and took a front quarter of moose out of the popped window and buried it 200 yards from the vehicle. This can be backed up by a call to the senior F&W Officer at Fort Saint John as all incidents were reported, and pics taken. Are you claiming to know all the Bioligists, or just the credible ones?

[elker]

Yes there are places where there are few wolves and then there are places where there are hi populations.

In the areas where wolves are hi in numbers there is only one sulotion ,they have to be controled and that is they only way to bring them down to a exceptical level.

Mr Suzuki should look into what the wolves have done to the deer here on Vancover Island in the past 20 years.

He will tell you that it is the hunters who brought the deer number down.:razz:

[trapperRick]

No way they are part of what we all like about the wilderness to get rid all of them out would be out right stupid

[longshot]

Sure we may not like wolves, we may have had bad experiences with them. I personally do not hunt them or know much about them.

But this is something that is sometimes hard to understand. Take away one thing it will effect another, then another, and another... Us hunters or even bioligists may not see what will happen without them. To our eyes they may look like uneeded and unhelpful animals to our ecosystems. But really, we cannot tell what really would happen WAY DOWN the chain if they disapeared.

Just my 2 cents

[hunter1947]

He will tell you that it is the hunters who brought the deer number down.:razz:

Well if Mr Suzuki does tell me that then I will really know that he has been into some of that funny stuff.

I know what happened and saw what the wolves did to the deer poulation in the last 25 years.

I could sit down with any hunter for hours and tell them what I saw the wolves do to the deer numbers here on the island.
Being out in the field 40% of the time tells all ,not just reading books behind a table or computer screen http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[RiverOtter]

But this is something that is sometimes hard to understand. Take away one thing it will effect another, then another, and another... Us hunters or even bioligists may not see what will happen without them. To our eyes they may look like uneeded and unhelpful animals to our ecosystems. But really, we cannot tell what really would happen WAY DOWN the chain if they disapeared.

Actually I believe we could and have.

Wolves were removed from the Yellow Stone area, as well as most other parts of the lower 48. Now that wolves are back, they have seen both worlds. The ecosystem did not collapse with the absense of wolves.

Anyway, as was mentioned at the start of this thread, it is only a hypothetical situation. If wolves could be exterminated, I'm pretty sure the last one would have been trapped/shot/poisoned before 1960....

[PGK]

Actually I believe they could and have.

Wolves were removed from the Yellow Stone area, as well as most other parts of the lower 48. Now that wolves are back, they have seen both worlds. The ecosystem did not collapse with the absense of wolves.

Anyway, as was mentioned at the start of this thread, it is only a hypothetical situation. If wolves could be exterminated, I'm pretty sure the last one would have been trapped/shot/poisoned before 1960....

Actually, it kinda did. No wolves meant ungulate explosions, which meant increased browsing and forage loss, which led to a reduction in the beaver population, which resulted in less water retention on the landscape, which resulted in greater erosion and decreased water quality, which essentially decreased the total productivity of the landscape.

[RiverOtter]

If you're referring to Yellow Stone in particular, the ungulate explosion could have been curtailed with hunting. Not to mention, NOT feeding the herds in winter, which effectively maintained them above carrying capacity...

One plus to the wolf re-introduction, is the coyote population dropped off substancially. Seems the yotes had stepped up to hold down the fort for their bigger cousins.

[PGK]

If you're referring to Yellow Stone in particular, the ungulate explosion could have been curtailed with hunting. Not to mention, NOT feeding the herds in winter, which effectively maintained them above carrying capacity...

One plus to the wolf re-introduction, is the coyote population dropped off substancially. Seems the yotes had stepped up to hold down the fort for their bigger cousins.

Hunting in a NP, oh ya, that would fly real well!! Hundreds of dead elk lying around because they weren't fed, oh ya, that would fly real well too!!

They needed a wolf reintroduction badly.

[hunter1947]

The area I hunt up in Cranbrook ,I never used to see wolves or hear them.

Now I see wolves but have only seen them when they are a mile or so out lucky for them.
Two years ago there where WT deer every where last year I saw only about 40% of what I had seen the year before and you can't blame the winter because they have been mild for the last 12 years.

Last year I heard 3 different packs howling in defferent areas and saw more wolf scats then ever before in this area I hunt.
My trapper friend said to me earler this year that the wolves are coming over the boarder from Montana into BC.

Hopfully my friend Phil B will give me some good news that he done away with a few on his trapping when I talk to him this week.

[SteadyGirl]

I find it incredible that people are still arguing about mankinds capability to eliminate a species:roll:

[SteadyGirl]

Two years ago there where WT deer every where last year I saw only about 40% of what I had seen the year before and you can't blame the winter because they have been mild for the last 12 years.



Mmmm, I gotta disagree with you. It is nothing for me to see 100 whiteys in a five k drive when they are bunched up like this. There are also 15 or so whiteys on my 5acres here and now as I type this.

How many more whiteys do you need?

Also one thing that is incredibly efficient at keeping wolves down is guides, and we have PLENTY of them in Cranbrook. Everybody here has sleds and quads and fitness levels and big balls, there is no such thing as remote.

While it is true that the wolf packs do cross over the border from Montana, they can do that at any time of year. Not just winter:-D The packs you are talking about will go from Creston to Elkford the Flathead and over into Montana and Idaho and back again!

[hunter1947]

I find it incredible that people are still arguing about mankinds capability to eliminate a species:roll:

Steadygirl who said eliminate them ,I did not state that ,I am for wolfs in regions but they have to be controled ,not eliminated ,if you look back on my past post on this subject you will see that I said controled ,just like any other predator :wink:.

[SteadyGirl]

Steadygirl who said eliminate them ,I did not state that ,I am for wolfs in regions but they have to be controled ,not eliminated ,if you look back on my past post on this subject you will see that I said controled ,just like any other predator :wink:.


If you look back on my post you will see I did not quote you or anybody on that statement:wink:

[hunter1947]

If you look back on my post you will see I did not quote you or anybody on that statement:wink:

Steadygirl I apologize if there was a misunderstanding on my statement.

[GoatGuy]

The area I hunt up in Cranbrook ,I never used to see wolves or hear them.

Now I see wolves but have only seen them when they are a mile or so out lucky for them.
Two years ago there where WT deer every where last year I saw only about 40% of what I had seen the year before and you can't blame the winter because they have been mild for the last 12 years.

Last year I heard 3 different packs howling in defferent areas and saw more wolf scats then ever before in this area I hunt.
My trapper friend said to me earler this year that the wolves are coming over the boarder from Montana into BC.

Hopfully my friend Phil B will give me some good news that he done away with a few on his trapping when I talk to him this week.

Glad somebody's making use of the boatloads of wt's in the EK.

[d6dan]

H47 has it right, I grew up in Elko back when there was plenty of game and we never saw or heard of anyone seeing wolves, but there moving in everywhere and raising hell. So yes lets control them. Hell I've had a few opportunities to shoot some but didn't. Next will be different.

[PGK]

Wolves ate all the game!!! Damn them all!!!

Maybe the game went somewhere else, and you haven't changed hunting tactics in 35 years :roll:

[horshur]

I find it incredible that people are still arguing about mankinds capability to eliminate a species:roll:

I betting you could hunt up all the species that have come and gone for millenia before we jumped out of the trees................mankind is not any great influence in perspective of time.