Wolf Hunting-Disrespect for wolves

[killemall]

I dont have an issue with it but i dont understand why people see a wolf or a wolf kill and instantly think someone should kill that wolf. I understand they kill game but they are predators its what they do so survive.

It seems to be the theme of the board lately. I can see shooting wolfs if the area IS (actually is not just assumed to be because theres a wolf) overpopulated with wolves, or they are harming livestock pets or you want a rug. But i am always reading people saying everywhere is crawling with wolves. I call bull on that.

The islands a good example. Everyone says the place is crawling with wolves/cougars and its the main cause of the deer population going down.

"it is estimated that Vancouver Island’s cougar population has dropped by 50 per cent in the last five to ten years with an estimated 300–400 individuals remaining, AND the Island’s wolf population has also dropped by 50 per cent in the last 20 years with an estimated 150 wolves remaining"

I realize dont believe everything you read on the net but 150 wolves on all of vancouver island is nothing. I know guys on the island that are in the bush daily and have never seen a wolf or track. I find this primitive view on wolves pretty frustrating. No im not peta no im not saying leave all the wolves alone but can someone please explain "the only good wolf is a dead wolf theory"? What happened to respect for wildlife

[325]

I agree. I'm glad we live in a country that's still wild enough to have wolves. I do think that wolf populations need to be controlled, however, if we want go maintain good to excellent ungulate populations, but I would be saddend if the howl of wolves was no longer heard in our vast wilderness.

[doubled]

Killemall. I respect your thoughts and appreciate the topic. I am not for killing ALL wolves. I have seen the effects that a pack can have in an area and like ALL things, must be managed accordingly or the "balance" will be altered. I have no disrespect toward wolves and actually think they are beautiful, majestic animals. However, we (mankind) have altered the "balance" and see fit to put our stamp on everything regardless of right/wrong or effect. We make our bed and now must sleep in it. IMHO, wolves must be managed or the effects will be devasting.

Derek

[mark]

I think all of us that hunt fish and simply appreciate nature, also appreciate wolves and their existance! Its basically a competition factor for the game that we both hunt, mostly moose and deer! When we sense wolf pops on the rise, we think they will shit kick our ungulate pops, so our answer is kill, kill, kill! Not something that is easy to do IMO, but I would given the opportunity!

[aggiehunter]

Thanks for the refreshing post. Attitudes like yours will help put hunters in a better light and will help in hunter recruitment and retention.

[Barracuda]

I dont have an issue with it but i dont understand why people see a wolf or a wolf kill and instantly think someone should kill that wolf. I understand they kill game but they are predators its what they do so survive.

It seems to be the theme of the board lately. I can see shooting wolfs if the area IS (actually is not just assumed to be because theres a wolf) overpopulated with wolves, or they are harming livestock pets or you want a rug. But i am always reading people saying everywhere is crawling with wolves. I call bull on that.

The islands a good example. Everyone says the place is crawling with wolves/cougars and its the main cause of the deer population going down.

"it is estimated that Vancouver Island’s cougar population has dropped by 50 per cent in the last five to ten years with an estimated 300–400 individuals remaining, AND the Island’s wolf population has also dropped by 50 per cent in the last 20 years with an estimated 150 wolves remaining"

I realize dont believe everything you read on the net but 150 wolves on all of vancouver island is nothing. I know guys on the island that are in the bush daily and have never seen a wolf or track. I find this primitive view on wolves pretty frustrating. No im not peta no im not saying leave all the wolves alone but can someone please explain "the only good wolf is a dead wolf theory"? What happened to respect for wildlife

you quote a biased online petition that was put forward about 7 years ago by the sierra club , Genovali and his RCS . Seems like you have an agenda . By any chance will i find your name on the petition?

[RiverOtter]

Short of poisoning and airial shooting, wolves have very little to fear, besides eating themselves out of groceries.

Despite what you may have heard on National Geographic........:p

[Gateholio]

To: Legislative Assembly of the Province of British Columbia To the Honourable the Legislative Assembly of the Province of British Columbia, in Legislature Assembled:

The petition of the undersigned, residents of the Province of British Columbia, states that:

Whereas it is estimated that Vancouver Island’s cougar population has dropped by 50 per cent in the last five to ten years with an estimated 300–400 individuals remaining, AND the Island’s wolf population has also dropped by 50 per cent in the last 20 years with an estimated 150 wolves remaining;

Whereas these dramatic declines are linked to a decline in black-tailed deer which is the primary prey base of both wolves and cougars;

Whereas the best available scientific evidence suggests the most significant threat to viable wolf populations in the Pacific Northwest is clearcut logging and loss of ancient forest habitat, which is thought to reduce the forest’s long-term carrying capacity for deer; and whereas nearly 75 per cent of the Island’s productive ancient forests have been logged, primarily by clearcutting, in the last 150 years;

Whereas Vancouver Island’s remaining ancient forests, found largely in draft Forest Ecosystem Network reserves (forested links within logged landscapes); draft Ungulate Winter Range reserves; and intact valleys such as East Creek, Schoen Creek, the upper Walbran, and Clayoquot Sound, continue to be approved for logging by the provincial government; and

Whereas the effectiveness of predator culls and/or contraception as strategies for restoring prey populations remains unproven;

Your petitioners respectfully request that the Government reject any proposal for the culling or contraception of wolves and cougars on Vancouver Island, and instead, immediately implement a change in forest policy to restore viable deer, wolf and cougar populations on Vancouver Island by both protecting remaining old growth habitats, and restoring old growth structures to uniform second growth stands.

Dated 27th day of September, 2002.

Sincerely,
The Undersigned (http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?cull2002)

[Gateholio]

Now we know what the Sierra Club and Raincoast Conservation society think about predator populations on the Island, in 2002. It would be interesting to learn what the wildlife bios think.

[moosinaround]

This past two seasons in the woods is the most predator sign I have ever seen. I have seen cougar, and wolf kills, and in some areas more wolf and cougar tracks then deer and moose. Now these observations of mine are far from scientific, but in my opinion, the cycle of predators is in the upper part of the cycle. Some predator control will not hurt the population, this is what is hunted and trapped this time of year. Hunting is a year round activity. Hunters take advantage of our priveledges in this province to harvest predators. It is not illegal, and our scientists feel the resource will support the predator hunt and trap, so have at it!! If you donot agree with it then do not view the predator posts! Folks here probably have more respect for wildlife then animal activists! These folks here spend their disposable income and personal time in the pursuits of harvesting and protecting our wildlife resources. Disrespect is not intended by any means!! Moosinaround

[killemall]

Barracuda how do i have an agenda that is the first info when you search vancouver island wolf populations? Im not starting a mudslinging thread i am just interested in hearing some facts.Instead trying to make it a personal arguement why dont you share some information on the topic if you have it.

I also found another interesting although dated document on island wolf pops. This document is bias in the other direction so it should help balance. The numbers they quote on here is 300-450 on the island in 1987 and steadily dropping. They also indicate that in one year 104 wolves were trapped. Thats 1/4 the population trapped in a year. The deer populations still seem to be very low so is it that effective?

http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/techpub/wr28.pdf

[Gateholio]

That is over 20 years old...We would need more up to date data to give us the real picture for 2009.

[elkdom]

as 99.9% of the Resident public in British Columbia would rather "HUG a Wolf" than "HUNT a Wolf", the wolf population in BC has nothing to fear, public misconception and Special interest groups are combined to assure the WOLF will thrive in BC, and as stated in a previous post on this thread, again the only REAL threat to the wolf population is when they become so PROLIFIC that they will starve off, by then ungulate populations will be devastated, that is the CYCLE of NATURE!, without management any species can flourish or disappear! sometimes WITH management some species will cease to exist, others will flourish! as for posts about WOLF decimation efforts, I will be surprised to see even 25 confirmed wolf kills on posts about wolf hunts by HBC members for the 2008/2009 hunting season year inclusive! so out of several thousand HBC members, also remember that HBC members only are a very mall number of total BC resident dedicated and life long hunting inthusiasts! that isnt really much for anyone to be concerned about !, even for the most "Huggable of wolf lovers"!:!: boo hoo:lol:

[killemall]

Gatehouse you will note in my post i said the info is dated and the 1987 date. I was unable to find any other up to date studies other than the original numbers i posted which people didnt like because of the source.

I agree that most hunters care more than anyone else but im also seeing the posts that i expected to see. "there is nothing to be concerned about even for wolf huggers boo hoo". Again im not peta or saying leave the wolves alone so this can be saved.

A good example of my post was a few months ago a member posted a story of how while out fishing off vancouver island he saw a wolf swimming and drove over to it and proceeded to beat it with a paddel until it died. Half the board defended and even congragulated him even though it was clearly illegal, disrespectful and a horrible representation of hunters.

[Gateholio]

A good example of my post was a few months ago a member posted a story of how while out fishing off vancouver island he saw a wolf swimming and drove over to it and proceeded to beat it with a paddel until it died. Half the board defended and even congragulated him even though it was clearly illegal, disrespectful and a horrible representation of hunters.

We banned that member, although I did find out later that apparently the wolf was previously wounded.

I'm not so sure that your "half the board" comment is accurate.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=29272&highlight=paddle&page=2

[Gateholio]

I agree that most hunters care more than anyone else but im also seeing the posts that i expected to see. "there is nothing to be concerned about even for wolf huggers boo hoo". Again im not peta or saying leave the wolves alone so this can be saved.

.

Well, there really isn't much to be worried about regarding humans cutting down wolf populations. If every hunter in BC shot every wolf he/she saw, the impact upon wolf populations would still be minimal.

To really reduce the population it woudl take a determined effort.

[ElkMasterC]

Look who signed that petition:
If I'd known Wolfson and Viagra were gonna sign it, I would have too.


3935. Brandon Gibbons
3934. Blaine Jones V1H1W9
3933. viagra Nonee
3932. Toni A. Wolfson

[GoatGuy]

I dont have an issue with it but i dont understand why people see a wolf or a wolf kill and instantly think someone should kill that wolf. I understand they kill game but they are predators its what they do so survive.

It seems to be the theme of the board lately. I can see shooting wolfs if the area IS (actually is not just assumed to be because theres a wolf) overpopulated with wolves, or they are harming livestock pets or you want a rug. But i am always reading people saying everywhere is crawling with wolves. I call bull on that.

The islands a good example. Everyone says the place is crawling with wolves/cougars and its the main cause of the deer population going down.

"it is estimated that Vancouver Island’s cougar population has dropped by 50 per cent in the last five to ten years with an estimated 300–400 individuals remaining, AND the Island’s wolf population has also dropped by 50 per cent in the last 20 years with an estimated 150 wolves remaining"

I realize dont believe everything you read on the net but 150 wolves on all of vancouver island is nothing. I know guys on the island that are in the bush daily and have never seen a wolf or track. I find this primitive view on wolves pretty frustrating. No im not peta no im not saying leave all the wolves alone but can someone please explain "the only good wolf is a dead wolf theory"? What happened to respect for wildlife

There's more recent stuff than what you guys have been posting.

Long and the short of it is the deer population on the island is mostly limited by predators (principally wolves). There are habitat issues but predator control (not elimination) in the past has shown a rebound in recruitment and carry over.

There are several areas where ungulate populations are predator limited. By reducing predators, particularly wolves, we can create more animals for consumptive users without exceeding the carrying capacity of the land. There are several areas right now that have exploding wolf populations and as a result seasons will likely have to be shortened and/or closed over time. There's a couple of LEH seasons in the WK for moose that were closed just last year due to this problem.


There's a balance everywhere and there are very few people who want to see a species eliminated. However, if we want to continue to use wildlife managing predators is one part of the equation.

BTW that's quite the handle you have. I'm fairly skeptical as to who you are and what your intentions are but I'll play the game anyways.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

Well, there really isn't much to be worried about regarding humans cutting down wolf populations. If every hunter in BC shot every wolf he/she saw, the impact upon wolf populations would still be minimal.

To really reduce the population it woudl take a determined effort.

This is quite correct, predators in geneal will "breed" to the available food source. Killing a couple makes vitrually no impact, the myth that killing a wolf saves 5 moose(or any other ungulate), is just that, a myth. Most information that is out there shows you have to get rid of a very large portion at once and in a very short period of time. Over 80%, very difficult to do with traditioal hunting and trapping methods.

My own opinion is people should hunt them because they enjoy hunting, not because they feel they are getting rid of vermin.

[guest]

I just love it when some one comes up with old numbers or information not accurate to the present date.
I am in no way saying that I know the numbers BUT, this same kind of BS is advertised every year on the TV and newspapers about Grizzly bears.
All this anti hunting info is shallow and misleads it's supporters.
Get with it people, MAN is part of the management equation when it comes to all wild life on the planet. This includes harvest and management of all species.
I agree that numbers should never fall below sustainability for a species but misinformation by all parties involved is just Hooey!
Jeeeeezzzz.
Thanks Gate for finding the real thing. DATED 2002
CT

[RiverOtter]

Well, there really isn't much to be worried about regarding humans cutting down wolf populations. If every hunter in BC shot every wolf he/she saw, the impact upon wolf populations would still be minimal.

To really reduce the population it woudl take a determined effort.

Yep, B.C. woofs survived poisoning programs, bounties, trapping and airial shooting. Pretty sure the current population of resident hunters and trappers won't be dealing the wolfs demise any time soon.

Worst case, we could borrow some back from Jelly Stone, I hear they have a few of ours...........:lol::lol:

[Walksalot]

Predator control is part of a responsible wildlife management strategy. However, the mentality of the only good predator is a dead predator is a bit excessive.

[ElkMasterC]

My dog is 80% Wolf, but still I'm going wolf hunting.
If you're a fan of my posts, and Hey, who isn't , right? You'll see that I don't like the "Kill 'Em All" point of view. (Ironic that you started this thread with that handle, though)
My point is that they're on my buddy's ranch, it's calving season, and they gotta go.
So I'm heading back soon to see what I can do.
A lot of farms these days are run on a break-even basis, and losing 10-15 of 70-80 calves is not acceptable.

Good on ya for starting this though.
Suffer the 'slings and arrows' etc.
Well done.
I think you and Sasquatch get the "Against the Grain" award this month.lol

[horshur]

I think that the very fact that we hunt them shows respect!

I watched on the tube a few wolves drag down a coyote....did they show a lack of respect for the coyote???? or perhaps the oppisite in being that the coyote is a competitor???
Is the wolf lacking respect for the moose???
Are not your eyes on the front of your skull betraying your true role???

Seems the social evolutionist are getting ahead of themselves...

we hunt wolves for similiar reasons that wolves will kill coyotes and young cougars...because they are competitors and we respect there abilities to be that.

It is my oppinion that those who don't understand are just to far separated from nature themselves....anti nature and anti human in truth rather than pro because they base there beliefs on sentimental feelings and manipulated half truths rather reality.

[308Lover]

Probably my concern with wolves is not how many are in a region, but that they concentrate on one area (of course) where there is the most game---(even though the prey animals are NOT overpopulating/overgrazing etc). The net effect is or can be disastrous for the breeding stock of that group of moose. I hate "gang" hunting where 6 or 8 bull moose/cows/calves are slaughtered in a small area. They don't re-populate quickly or at all. Cow moose(so they say) do not go back and calve in an area where they have been spooked, shot at etc.Wolves do not take 1 moose per 10km square or whatever the biologists say--they hang around wintering areas and kill as often as possible.If that's your favorite hunting grounds you can sure take on a hate for the wolves in a hurry.

[hitch]

Every wolf I see, has equal opportunity of being shot or not. If the wolf can get away before me, my partners or my hunter's can get their gun up and pull the trigger, than it lives:eek:

[Sitkaspruce]

Wolves are part of the ecosystem, they represent the top of the food chain in a lot of areas. They are also a huntable species that need to be controled. Mother nature does that on her own, but when we interupt the cycle with our own brand of ecosystem, things go sideways. Hunting and trapping wolves has been going on for decades, and the population is still around. Don't worrry about the wolf population, it is safe to say that it will still be here when your grandchildren hunt.

As for all the folks who are going to go wolf hunting, they are one of the hardest animals to hunt. They are not like ungulates, so most who do go out, get bored and frustrated fast and usually quite with in a few days or even hours of venturing forward on their quest.

I have seriously hunted then hard for 10 years and have never killed one while hunting them. I have had a few chances, but they are smarter than most think. I have been lucky to kill a few while hunting other species though. They are more an oppurtunity kill then a hunted one.

Cheers

SS

[elker]

Now I got one more motivation to shoot wolves: to make those wolf huggers who spill mislead information about wolf hunting suffer a little more.

[moosehunter21]

Ill admit it, I try to shoot every wolf I see out in the bush.
Gotta save the ungulate populations!

[killemall]

Thanks for the responses most actually do give validty to it and shed some light on it. It would be nice to have some real and up to date numbers. Everyone can get mad about the old numbers posted but thats all there seems to be so dont get to worked up.

Elker theres always one haha. What is a wolf hugger? Im sure they wont suffer to much and im also sure you wont actually have the skill to shoot a wolf. Good post though it was a good idea

[Gateholio]

I'm still not sure what this thread is about...

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) Man has upset nature's balance in many places, and man has to correct that. If the wolf population gets too high in a certain area, then they need to be thinned out, or the ungulate population in that area would be decimated. In many areas, however, wolves prey on the old and sick, and help keep the ungulate population strong, without harvesting too many animals. It's a matter of science, we need to keep observing the populations of every animal and apply the data to make informed decisions regarding our wildlife...

[killemall]

I find this primitive view on wolves pretty frustrating. No im not peta no im not saying leave all the wolves alone but can someone please explain "the only good wolf is a dead wolf theory"? What happened to respect for wildlife
Here gatehouse


Singleshot i think thats the best way its been put.

[Gateholio]

It still doesn't make any sense. Killing wolves is not disrespectful towards wildlife.

[RiverOtter]

:-) Man has upset nature's balance in many places, and man has to correct that. If the wolf population gets too high in a certain area, then they need to be thinned out, or the ungulate population in that area would be decimated. In many areas, however, wolves prey on the old and sick, and help keep the ungulate population strong, without harvesting too many animals. It's a matter of science, we need to keep observing the populations of every animal and apply the data to make informed decisions regarding our wildlife...

Couple points:

IME, nature only passes through balance on its way from one extreme to the other. Man is part of that balance, whether we like it or not. Personsally, I like the arrangement and don't suffer from "human" guilt.

The second part of your above paragraph(sick and old) has been proven wrong, on countless occasions, along with wolves eating everything they kill. That is the "BAMBI" version of nature, that Nat G loves to expound. In reality wolves are opportunists, just like any other predator, including man.

[Singleshotneeded]

:smile: RiverOtter, I was referring to nature's balance before white folks arrived in North America...the indians harvested what they needed,
the predators harvested what they needed, and the ungulates thrived in part because our cities weren't occupying their access to lowland valleys in winter(such as the Fraser valley). We came in and changed things, so we have to actively manage wildlife, and adjust open seasons, etc, in the best interests of the resource. No guilt, just reality man...:-)
The final part of your post refers to wolves being opportunists, and yes they are! Opportunists seek out the weaker animals as they're easier to kill, in a general sense, and those include the old, sick, and the young.
I'm not saying that a wolf pack won't attack a healthy young bull moose, but the usual victims are the weak. I think that wolf populations need to be thinned out where they're getting too numerous and too many ungulates are being killed, but it has to be based on science.

[Gateholio]

:smile: RiverOtter, I was referring to nature's balance before white folks arrived in North America...the indians harvested what they needed,
the predators harvested what they needed, and the ungulates thrived in part because our cities weren't occupying their access to lowland valleys in winter(such as the Fraser valley). We came in and changed things, so we have to actively manage wildlife, and adjust open seasons, etc, in the best interests of the resource. No guilt, just reality man...:-)

This is out of whack, too...

Indians often hunted out an area until virtually no animals were left, then moved on. Lewis and Clark expeditions almost starved a few times going through areas that had no game.

Natures balance is just as RO said- peaks and valleys. We hunters liek to see things more consistent for the renewable resource of wildlife.



The final part of your post refers to wolves being opportunists, and yes they are! Opportunists seek out the weaker animals as they're easier to kill, in a general sense, and those include the old, sick, and the young.
I'm not saying that a wolf pack won't attack a healthy young bull moose, but the usual victims are the weak.

I'm sure wolves eat the weak but I'd say it's just as common that they eat the perfectly healthy.I'd say that most of the wolf kills I've come across (or watched take place) are deer in thier prime.

[killemall]

It still doesn't make any sense. Killing wolves is not disrespectful towards wildlife.

I dont know why it doesnt make sense.Im not saying its disrespectful to kill wolves when they overpopulate and area or threaten livestock ect. Its disrespectful to wildlife when there is an uneducated opinion a good wolf is a dead wolf. Im sick of people killing wolves because they are wolves which seems to be a common theme. If you are going to kill a wolf do so for respectable and valid reasons.

[Manglinmike]

I agree with gatehouse and I love all the nature shows and crap seen them all and have a few books on wolves aswell, they well push allmost every prey animal they come across, and sooner or later one of those animals makes the wrong turn and its dinner time, regaurdless of its health.

[Gateholio]

I dont know why it doesnt make sense.Im not saying its disrespectful to kill wolves when they overpopulate and area or threaten livestock ect. Its disrespectful to wildlife when there is an uneducated opinion a good wolf is a dead wolf. Im sick of people killing wolves because they are wolves which seems to be a common theme. If you are going to kill a wolf do so for respectable and valid reasons.

The only valid reason a person needs to hunt is an open season.

[killemall]

Yea if your some redneck looking to shoot something and dont want to get charged.Hunt for meat, hunt for a trophy if need be but dont shoot something because its open season.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

Killemall, you need to get out of the house alittle more and head to chilcotin country and follow the wolves around for a while. The deer and moose population is down over the last 5 years, but even with low populations wolves have consentrated in and around my place all winter. Every day I go out cat hunting I have to find a spot to run my hounds that does not have fresh wolf sign even doing this I still had a hound killed by wolves this winter. I would be a happy guy if 80 % of the wolves in my area were killed off allowing the ungulates population to recover. This is a wide spread problem province wide and killing the wolves will increase hunters harvest opportunities.

[Camp Cook]

Not only am I a hunter of big game I am a predator hunter, I will kill any wolf/coyote that comes into my calls or that I can get close enough for a shot...

Not all that complicated is it...

[olharley guy]

Living in the North for about thirty years, there was numerous times that the howling of a wolf pack sent shivers up my spine-but it was extremely enjoyable to listen to them.
I believe wolves are probably the smartest animals in the bush.
Here is a little story-Having coffee in a restaurant in Watson Lake,Yukon one morning I started to talk to a fellow and found out he was a biologist studying moose and wolves in the Yukon.
When he found out I was trapping and had a Super Cub he started asking all kinds of questions about what I thought about these animals and how bad the wolves were.
I said lets go for a ride and I'll see if I can show anything.
About 30 mins. later we were cruising up the Liard River about 200'0 off the ice. About ten minutes later rounded a bend in the river and there was the first kill.
Circled over it a few times and 5 mins. later another and anothe and another.
In about a 5 mile stretch 16-"SIXTEEN" dead moose on the river and about 14 of them looked untouched.
Around the next corner and another moose and if I can remember right 23 wolves in this pack! Running for the shore- Maybe a training day for pups?
Since that day I have never believed in the old, sick etc., I call it B.S.
Got back to town and asked the biologist what he thought of that-He said it was- Unbelievable!
I told him to be sure and tell the big wigs about what he saw,about a month later I called him and he said he never told them as they wouldn't believe him anyways. So now I don't believe half the studies on wildlife that are done!
There were a lot of moose in this area including Northern B.C. but in about a 75 mile circle I counted about 150 wolves in different packs which were starting to put a good size dent in the moose population during the winter.
Myself, friends and all the native population hunted moose and caribou for food as we didn't have the local Superstore to go to so I did start a campaign to get rid of some of these wolves with the Gov't etc.
This story took place in the Southern Yukon next to the B.C. border and the same thing was happening in B.C. down Kechika way and beyond.
It took a while for the Gov't. to believe people like me and guide/outfitters who flew in these areas all the time. I think they thought we were all lying about this and I have seen this type of episode numerous times in the Yukon and Northern B.C., and I do not tell stories or lie about this type of thing.
If a person wants to hunt moose, caribou, sheep etc. and be semi-successful there has to be some type of wolf management program.
If no one was meat hunting-who cares?
When you ask the Gov't. about a aerial survey to do a moose and wolf count, they will all say not enough money in the budget and if they do they have enough for about 15 hours flying time which would cover a very small area.
So I wonder how they get the counting numbers accurate. I have another story about B.C. biologist's doing a moose study in the wer Post/Fireside area of B.C. is for another time.
If by chance they would ever do a wolf cull, why can't they just do it and
somehow not have it reach the media??
Gatehouse is right in an earlier post aboutevery hunter in B.C. shooting a wolf and the impact being minimal on them.
If a person is a hunter of meat (and trophies) it is definitely not disrespectful and it would be a valid reason to lower the population of the wolves in my opinion.

[olharley guy]

I hit the wrong button on my long tale here but to finish off I did get some permits for aerial hunting from the Gov't and did thin them out a bit. Later

[RiverOtter]

I dont know why it doesnt make sense.Im not saying its disrespectful to kill wolves when they overpopulate and area or threaten livestock ect. Its disrespectful to wildlife when there is an uneducated opinion a good wolf is a dead wolf. Im sick of people killing wolves because they are wolves which seems to be a common theme. If you are going to kill a wolf do so for respectable and valid reasons.

If you have ever hunted a wolf, you'd know there is a huge difference between saying you're going to kill every wolf you see, and actually killing a pile of wolves. If wolves were so easy to decimate with simply a rifle and/or traps, we'd not be having this conversation, as they would have been extinct long before anyone here was born...

[M.Dean]

Name 3 things wolves are good for, or rats or mosquito's or horse fly's or bloody deer fly's and the list go's on and on! I would shoot the last wolf if given the chance! If wolves go extinct, go see them in the museum beside the dinosaurs!!!

[TPK]

My $0.02 .. I agree they need to be managed and an aerial assault is going to get the best results. The MOE should have an LEH for seats on the chopper. The pelts should be recovered with the shooters getting some if they wanted and the rest sold to help with the costs. What's a nice wolf pelt going for these days? :D

[yukon john]

Thank you elker, olharley, and gatehouse your outdoor experience shows. Killemall if your even a hunter (not just visiting from the peta forum) you need to get out into the bush and see reality or listen to those who have spent their lifetime in the bush. There is more B.C. hunting experience on this site than any other site on the web the guys here would give you advice on anything be wise and listen.

[Schutzen]

killemall
Actually the two strongest forces controlling the wildlife situation here are not actually in the woods.
One is the Prov Govt.. famous for its great policies regarding wildlife mgt.
The other is the Bambi luver/Bunny Hugger/ Hi-Rise enviros.. factions whose extreme no hunting policies/protests cause all kinds of havoc for the wildlife connected to their causes (directly or indirectly).
I have been here for a long time actively hunting, fishing, ,hiking, and camping, etc.
I have seen a lot in those years.
Wolves if managed are just fine with me same as any other wildlife pop.
Trouble is if they are not controlled they can/do have a really bad effect on wildlife pops (ungulates mainly). These pops will often never really recover from the predator caused declines, simply because the fawn/young recruitment is hammered by the predator pops.
I have lived thru that here on the Island.
So because of this situation a lot of hunters over the years grew frusterated with the Govt and Huggers and thus... (the only good Wolf is a dead one..philosophy).

[115 or bust]

The islands a good example. Everyone says the place is crawling with wolves/cougars and its the main cause of the deer population going down.

"it is estimated that Vancouver Island’s cougar population has dropped by 50 per cent in the last five to ten years with an estimated 300–400 individuals remaining, AND the Island’s wolf population has also dropped by 50 per cent in the last 20 years with an estimated 150 wolves remaining"

I realize dont believe everything you read on the net but 150 wolves on all of vancouver island is nothing. I know guys on the island that are in the bush daily and have never seen a wolf or track. I find this primitive view on wolves pretty frustrating. No im not peta no im not saying leave all the wolves alone but can someone please explain "the only good wolf is a dead wolf theory"? What happened to respect for wildlife[/quote]

Don't mean to be rude but you can look it up for yourself the number one cause of decline in the deer population on vancouver island since the 1970's has been the increase in the wolf population. Second is the removal of high quality winter habitat. Don't belive me ask Kim Brunt our local biologist or any of the other regional bio's working in the V.I region. If you want to read it for yourself read the book published by the ministry of environment called Deer and Elk Habitats of Southwest British Columbia.
Second obviously the wolf population has declined due to the precipitous drop in deer population. In the 1970's the estimated deer population on vancouver island was 300,000 deer, by the late 1990's it was less than 50,000 now even someone with no biology education can understand that if the predator populations are the densest in north america while the prey population drops to less than 16% of its previous levels and the majority of the remainder is crowded around low elevation and urban habitats that there is going to be a decline in predators. This is called starvation.
Now if you really want to get into the issue look up the Term Predator pit it is used quite frequently to describe the wildlife situation on the B.C. coast. essentially there is only a small percentage of good habitat that can constantly sustain a deer population even under constant predation. Generally a good mix of steep escape cover, good exposure, with rich forage well interspersed. The rest of the coast is marginal deer habitat it can sustain them but due to low forage quality and harsh winters the result is a very low population that tends to remain depressed for long periods and never reaches high abundances instead cycling at a very low level. The end result is fewer predators and less game. The high predator numbers in the 1990's were due to a massive ungulate popluation on the island.
Another good read for you if you are interested would be Effects of Wolf Predation on Blacktailed Deer in the Nimpkish Valley.
Lastly the wolf population on the island is currently on the rise particularly on the North Island, north of Port Mcneil.
Additionally the Vancouver island wolf was belived to be completely exterminated by the 1960's and that the wolves that we now have migrated to the northern island from the coastal islands and mainland around that time. So after over 100 years of concerted effort to exterminate them they are alive and well. Meaning there is no reason to be concerned for their population due to a slight increase in hunter effort.
Do I hate wolves, No i think they are a magnificent animal and essential to maintaining the genetic health of our deer herds, do I wish to see their numbers managed to provide a healthy prey population for us both, absolutely. If we did not log winter ranges, build roads through escape habitats, and develope over the best habitats we would not need to manage as much however you cannot mess in the ecosystem without ramifications and if we wish to enjoy all aspects of the environment it is in our best intrests to maintain a healthy balance for all.

[115 or bust]

Barracuda how do i have an agenda that is the first info when you search vancouver island wolf populations? Im not starting a mudslinging thread i am just interested in hearing some facts.Instead trying to make it a personal arguement why dont you share some information on the topic if you have it.

I also found another interesting although dated document on island wolf pops. This document is bias in the other direction so it should help balance. The numbers they quote on here is 300-450 on the island in 1987 and steadily dropping. They also indicate that in one year 104 wolves were trapped. Thats 1/4 the population trapped in a year. The deer populations still seem to be very low so is it that effective?

http://wlapwww.gov.bc.ca/wld/documents/techpub/wr28.pdf

I don't have the information on hand but heres the title that shows how effective the removal of a percentage of the population on an annual basis with respect to the deer herd.

Effect of wolf control on black-tailed deer in the Nimpkish Valley on Vancouver Island
Atkinson, Knut Thomas

Publisher:Ministry of Environment, Wildlife Branch,Pub date:1994.Pages:31 p. --

I won't be able to get a copy any time soon as I am in camp but if you are interested that is a good read.

Here is another good read
Habitat and predator concerns
Bannerman, Susan

Publisher:BC Ministry of Forests, Research Branch,Pub date:1996.Pages:4 p.Item info:2 Available at Nanaimo Campus Library and WebLibrary.

http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/docs/Bro/Bro41.pdf

And another again this one is not available in online format unfortunately.
Effects of wolf predation on recruitment of black-tailed deer on northeastern Vancouver Island
Hatter, Ian.

Publisher:Wildlife Branch, Ministry of Environment,Pub date:1988 [i.e. 1989].Pages:ix, 82 p. :ISBN:

If you read these studies and pickup a copy of "Deer and Elk habitats in Southwest British Columbia" I belive it was published in 1995 by Nyberg et al. I belive then you will be well enough versed to understand the basic predator situation on vancouver island.

[115 or bust]

Lastly to decimate a deer population a wolf doesn't have to kill the healthy deer one of the main reasons that the blacktail population declines in the prescence of wolves is due to a massive spike in abortions. Any of you guys with kids could understand this you know how sensitive your unborn child was in your wifes stomach, don't bang it, lift anything too heavy etc. Now imagine living in harsh conditions with a food source that barely covers your own body's protien requirements and add on top of that you are regularly being chased by vocal and tireless predators. guess what pretty hard to carry a healthy pregnancy to term. Additionally I would like to see any pregnant animal outrun a healthy predator that is not carrying all that additional weight inside itself. The mortality on adult deer is not that high the bulk of the deaths are A) unborn fetuses, B)Newborn fawns and yearlings and C) Mature bucks that are exausted from the rut and have no fat reserves to carry them through the winter.
The ministry of environment has even come up with estimates of what would consitute a healthy wolf population level which would allow the deer population to remain strong without the catostrophic drops we currently see. On vancouver island for areas of moderate to good habitat that number is one wolf per 150km squared.

[olharley guy]

Howdy again, Re M. Dean's comment on 3 reasons to keep the wolves around, I can think of one at the moment and that is the weird , spine tingling feeling you get when they are following you and howling all day long,just out of sight at all times, when you are out on a trapline.
It gives you the true feeling of being in the wilderness.
So we should leave a few of them just for this reason. LOL

On another note-if the Gov't. ever did find enough extra tax dollars to do some sort of airborne culling, I believe they would probably have to do this at least every 2 years-3 maximum to keep the moose, caribou, sheep etc. count at a good rate for the people that like to hunt.
It used to be just about every guide/outfitter north of Prince George owned Super Cub or similar type of airplane so why not give them permits just for this purpose. They know what they are doing, and they would do it just for the thrill of it-no tax dollars spent!
They wouldn't and couldn't kill every wolf in the north as they have to leave some for the rich hunters to shoot. They used to get just about excited as shooting a wolf as taking a 40 inch ram when they came back from thier hunts. Later

[Schutzen]

Good posts 115
Man when you consider all the potential causes of ungulate mortality.
Disease
Parasites
Auto collision
Natural causes (old age)
Predation
Winter kill
Hunting
Now you add to that the stress factor of ungulates being unceasingly hunted and chased by predators. (which ups there susceptibility to all the other factors).
Its a wonder we have any here!

[elker]

Additionally the Vancouver island wolf was belived to be completely exterminated by the 1960's and that the wolves that we now have migrated to the northern island from the coastal islands and mainland around that time. So after over 100 years of concerted effort to exterminate them they are alive and well. Meaning there is no reason to be concerned for their population due to a slight increase in hunter effort.


See!

There is no way to control wolves in the wildlife management unless you kill them all.

If you leave a few wolf packs in the wild after decades of work of controlling wolf population, those packs will increase their numbers dramatically and in a couple decades, they wolves will be everywhere again! that means all your previous effort are wasted!!!

The only way to contain wolves is the put a few packs in the isolated islands , and kill every one else including those in Yellow Stone.

I wonder who was the first GENIUS telling us that wolves help keep deers healthy? So deers don't run, don't move without wolves at their side?

What a joke! The deers at QCI are as healthy as the deers at northern BC, needless to say, they are much healthier than those killed by wolves.

Yes, a dead wolf is a good wolf.

I would kill a wolf using whatever tools I have, a boat oar or a machete .

[ryanb]

Have a look at Killemall's post history. Do you think he has an agenda on this site?

[Will]

BTW that's quite the handle you have. I'm fairly skeptical as to who you are and what your intentions are but I'll play the game anyways.

I was kinda wondering the same thing ?

Quite the handle for someone with such High Morals regarding the hunting of animals.........:lol:

KILL EM ALL ?????? WTF ? :rolleyes:



FWIW, Man has been conditioned to hate and fear wolves........it starts with most of our fairytales we are read to as children (Red riding hood, 3 little pigs, boy who cried wolf, etc.)

There are Open seasons on them in BC and so we Hunters & trappers can Kill them......No tags required ! Nothing wrong with it...nothing right with it, it is just the way of things:wink:

[yukon john]

I strongly doubt killemall has any interest in hunting his post history is only anti-bs

[Will]

I strongly doubt killemall has any interest in hunting his post history is only anti-bs
Maybe it's Mr. Suzuki ?

[115 or bust]

Good posts 115
Man when you consider all the potential causes of ungulate mortality.
Disease
Parasites
Auto collision
Natural causes (old age)
Predation
Winter kill
Hunting
Now you add to that the stress factor of ungulates being unceasingly hunted and chased by predators. (which ups there susceptibility to all the other factors).
Its a wonder we have any here!

Its cause they are unbeliveably tough amazing animals!!!

[Schutzen]

Its cause they are unbeliveably tough amazing animals!!!

Hah! You got that rite amigo. :lol:

[Mik]

I was kinda wondering the same thing ?

Quite the handle for someone with such High Morals regarding the hunting of animals.........:lol:

KILL EM ALL ?????? WTF ? :rolleyes:



FWIW, Man has been conditioned to hate and fear wolves........it starts with most of our fairytales we are read to as children (Red riding hood, 3 little pigs, boy who cried wolf, etc.)

There are Open seasons on them in BC and so we Hunters & trappers can Kill them......No tags required ! Nothing wrong with it...nothing right with it, it is just the way of things:wink:

IMO; This is about the closest, correct comment on this thread so far!
To add to it and try and answer the original thread, wolves have always hunted everything/anything that they can...Man Included, I personally know and have heard of numerous stories of wolves surrounding individuals and try to attack them. One wolf in front looking at you and the rest of the pack in behind,all around you, ready to come in for the kill.....HENCE, the theory of "KILL EM ALL" on site...

[Gateholio]

Have a look at Killemall's post history. Do you think he has an agenda on this site?


I strongly doubt killemall has any interest in hunting his post history is only anti-bs

I am reasonably sure killemall isn't a hunter...;-)

[BigBanger]

I think he has a crush on me .

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) I'd have to agree with you on that one, Gatehouse, I don't know too many hunters that would pick a handle like Kill 'em All...

[Will]

I think he has a crush on me .
Perhaps your handle peaks his/her interest...........? :neutral:

:lol::wink:

[Singleshotneeded]

:lol: Hey Will, Hopefully for Big Banger it's not one of those West End Boys!

[killemall]

I am reasonably sure killemall isn't a hunter...;-)

Dont hunt anymore but its a great sport. This sites got endless interesting and good information there is always a good read. The name was because i made the handel to post about this issue. Gatehouse do you hunt? Haha from what i read you dont really hunt although you shot a coyote from the road once i think. Back to topic

I think some missed the point i have no problem with hunting im not peta with an agenda. I dont have an issue with even hunting wolves. Guys up in the yukon posting about the high populations. I agree sounds like a cull is definatly needed as the pops out of control and decimating moose, deer pops. No arguement there.

I just dont understand the guys like Mr dean,elker ect saying kill every wolf till they are all gone. Thats what the post was about.There are a ton of animals that dont benefit people directly. Doesnt mean we should kill them all. I mean i dont think hunters would want to get rid of all bears, coyotes,wolves and cats ?

[Gateholio]

]
Dont hunt anymore .

What a surprise...:lol:

.
Gatehouse do you hunt? Haha from what i read you dont really hunt although you shot a coyote from the road once i think.

Nope, I just talk about it on the intraweb.

;)

[ElkMasterC]

I think he has a crush on me .


Who doesn't?

[Squirrelnuts]

Killemall, you need to get out of the house alittle more and head to chilcotin country and follow the wolves around for a while.

Or come to the Cariboo and have them follow you. :lol:

[SteadyGirl]

haaaaaaaa jeezzz,

read the first five posts and the last five

more than enough for me

[kinderdoggin]

Or come to the Cariboo and have them follow you. :lol:


Yup - had that happen last fall. Sort of makes all the warm fuzzy feelings disappear, doesn't it?

[Sitkaspruce]

So I have to ask..........;),

WHY KILL THEM ALL????????

Are you that pi$$ed off about wolves that you think they do not have a right to live?? Have THEY taken away your easy deer/moose/elk hunt????

Not sure why the big hard on to hate wolves??

And what is next?? Cougars?? Black bears?? Grizzly or better yet, those damn bobcats......

I will never understand the blood lust for killing wolves. Hunting and trapping them...yes, but the uncontrolable fever of KILLING THEM ALL is what I do not understand.

Cheers

SS

[ElkMasterC]

And with that post, the boys were off again!

[Gateholio]

So I have to ask..........;),

WHY KILL THEM ALL????????

Are you that pi$$ed off about wolves that you think they do not have a right to live?? Have THEY taken away your easy deer/moose/elk hunt????

Not sure why the big hard on to hate wolves??

And what is next?? Cougars?? Black bears?? Grizzly or better yet, those damn bobcats......

I will never understand the blood lust for killing wolves. Hunting and trapping them...yes, but the uncontrolable fever of KILLING THEM ALL is what I do not understand.

Cheers

SS


Killing them all is just impossible, as well as undesirable.

Killing every one a hunter sees (to your limit of 3) is also desirable, in areas with wolf seasons. Most hunters will never get an opportunity at 1 in a year, 3 would be almost impossible.

[ROEBUCK]

i would love to kill a wolf probably more so than any other game animal,but i strongly disagree with the philosophy of THE ONLY GOOD WOLF IS A DEAD WOLF. i have respect for every animal i hunt!

[M.Dean]

Come On, how many wolves do you think are shot a year? Wolf lovers, don't get your knickers in a twist here, most guys that shoot wolves on SITE, never see wolves! About 96% of hunters will never shoot a wolf, so please don't worry about your cute little buddy's being slaughtered! A lot of wolf hunters do it from the couch, real wolf hunters are a select few,as are sheep hunters, so once again, don't lay awake at night thinking of a wolf less world, unfortunately it'll never happen!!! Also, if you get the chance,when you encounter a large pack of wolves, sit quietly and disarm your self, the wolves know your at one with them and you come in peace, share your lunch with the pack and you'll come away a totally different person! Good luck, and Peace OUT Man!!!

[Gateholio]

i would love to kill a wolf probably more so than any other game animal,but i strongly disagree with the philosophy of THE ONLY GOOD WOLF IS A DEAD WOLF. i have respect for every animal i hunt!


I think we will find that your attitude is the most prevalent one among hunters. Very few want them exterminated.

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) The only way that wolves have been eradicated in an area is by trapping and poisoned bait...ruthlessly and systematically until they were
eliminated. Hunters shooting one here and there won't threaten the wolf population...

[Gunner]

I think we will find that your attitude is the most prevalent one among hunters. Very few want them exterminated.I don't think that anyone here would want wolves totally exterminated,and that would be impossible to do in BC anyway,even in the 1080 days and with aircraft hunting they were never close to being wiped out,no matter what Disney or Suzuki said.Controls by government in SPECIFIC areas,and hunting are both a good and neccesary idea.They are on a definite upswing,and hunting alone will not keep numbers reasonable in areas where they are becoming a problem.Of course the Government doesn't have the balls for control,too many Bambiloving voters! Gunner

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) Hey Gunner, You're saying if the wolf population keeps rising the government won't act to control them? You'd think the Bambi lovers would want "Bambi" protected from the big bad wolves? If the government won't control them, then maybe the rest of us setting traps for them in some areas might be necessary...because just casual hunting won't do the trick.

[Stillhunting]

I gave up my old hunting grounds because wolves had decimated a once thriving moose population, but I still can't understand this kill'em'all attitude. We found a new area to hunt with even more moose, so maybe the wolves actually did us a favor. There is no doubt that in some areas wolves are having a negative impact on ungulate herds but the only reason things are worse than in the past is because of us. Our resource roads, snowmobile trails, and logging of winter range has tipped the balance of the predator prey relationship to be more in favor of the predator, because they now have easier access to the prey. Wolf hunting is a useful tool for wildlife management and should probably be used to dampen the boom and bust cyclic nature of predator prey populations.
However, the draconian idea of kill'em'all gives hunters a bad name and doesn't recognize the important roll of predators in the evolution of prey species. Sure we could try to get rid of all the predators so as to maximize the number of ungulates available to hunters, but the ungulate populations would not be as healthy as they are with predators. Predators ensure that only the healthiest animals are able to reproduce. Of course predators will take down perfectly healthy animals when the opportunity presents itself (i.e. deep snow with a crust, or pregnant females who are less agile) but prey animals have been coping with this for thousands of years (believe it or not even more than 6000 years) and they are still thriving. If you can't find any ungulates while your out hunting maybe you should save your money so you can hunt on a game farm instead of trying to convince everyone to shoot every wolf they see. I like wilderness, and wolves make the forest more wild.

[The MAN]

In my opinion, shoot the buggers! They have their place in the chain but thats just my opinion.

[Walksalot]

The only good wolf is a dead wolf lead to the eradication of the wolf in Idaho's Yellowstone Park in the 1920s. In 1995 amidst a storm of controversy wolves were reintroduced into Yellowstone National Park. The ranchers argued that their parents worked hard to eliminate the wolf and some vowed to shoot everyone they saw.

[Barracuda]

you dont think that it was distemper and other disease that was actually biggest killer?

[ElkMasterC]

I gave up my old hunting grounds because wolves had decimated a once thriving moose population, but I still can't understand this kill'em'all attitude. We found a new area to hunt with even more moose, so maybe the wolves actually did us a favor. There is no doubt that in some areas wolves are having a negative impact on ungulate herds but the only reason things are worse than in the past is because of us. Our resource roads, snowmobile trails, and logging of winter range has tipped the balance of the predator prey relationship to be more in favor of the predator, because they now have easier access to the prey. Wolf hunting is a useful tool for wildlife management and should probably be used to dampen the boom and bust cyclic nature of predator prey populations.
However, the draconian idea of kill'em'all gives hunters a bad name and doesn't recognize the important roll of predators in the evolution of prey species. Sure we could try to get rid of all the predators so as to maximize the number of ungulates available to hunters, but the ungulate populations would not be as healthy as they are with predators. Predators ensure that only the healthiest animals are able to reproduce. Of course predators will take down perfectly healthy animals when the opportunity presents itself (i.e. deep snow with a crust, or pregnant females who are less agile) but prey animals have been coping with this for thousands of years (believe it or not even more than 6000 years) and they are still thriving. If you can't find any ungulates while your out hunting maybe you should save your money so you can hunt on a game farm instead of trying to convince everyone to shoot every wolf they see. I like wilderness, and wolves make the forest more wild.

Nice post. And extra points for being the first to use the word "draconian" in context on this site. ;-)

Biggest killer of wolves?

You'll be surprised.

http://newsminer.com/news/2009/feb/19/canid-carnage/

[Gunner]

:-) Hey Gunner, You're saying if the wolf population keeps rising the government won't act to control them? You'd think the Bambi lovers would want "Bambi" protected from the big bad wolves? If the government won't control them, then maybe the rest of us setting traps for them in some areas might be necessary...because just casual hunting won't do the trick.Government trappers are used in specific areas when wolf populations become too high,and I believe that specific packs may have been target with poison(very quietly),in response to ranchers losing livestock.The Government is relying on increasing the opportunity of sports hunting of wolves(eliminating bag limits in some areas,and increasing season lengths),instead of biting the bullet,and practising control because of negative spin.We STILL do not have a wolf season in Region 8,although I hear one may be coming.I am seeing more wolf sign in local mulie wintering areas where I have never seen them before,and I've heard them 3 times this winter,and I live in a rural not wilderness area.I'd just like the opportunity to hunt them locally,but I have no faith in the idea that sport hunting can control wolf populations.That takes government will power. Gunner

[Stillhunting]

Thanks for the link EMC, interesting read, but not surprising. I guess they're similar to us in that they're a top predator who doesn't like competition. Too bad they can't do all the dirty work for us and keep their own numbers in check a little better.

[Sitkaspruce]

And with that post, the boys were off again!

LOL!!!! I just had to ask....:wink::D


Come On, how many wolves do you think are shot a year? Wolf lovers, don't get your knickers in a twist here, most guys that shoot wolves on SITE, never see wolves! About 96% of hunters will never shoot a wolf, so please don't worry about your cute little buddy's being slaughtered! A lot of wolf hunters do it from the couch, real wolf hunters are a select few,as are sheep hunters, so once again, don't lay awake at night thinking of a wolf less world, unfortunately it'll never happen!!! Also, if you get the chance,when you encounter a large pack of wolves, sit quietly and disarm your self, the wolves know your at one with them and you come in peace, share your lunch with the pack and you'll come away a totally different person! Good luck, and Peace OUT Man!!!

I am by no ways a wolf lover or hugger, nor am I worried about the wolf population. I am just sick and tired of all the blame put on wolves for all the "No animals left", "they ate them all", "those damn wolves killed all the moose" excuses that most hunter use if they did not get an animal. I lived, hunted and guided in areas that had good numbers of wolves, and have seen first hand whey they can do. Do they affect animal #'s?? You bet, but so do we.

Them
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/1pack.jpg

Us:wink:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Sitkaspruce/GuidingMikesMoose.jpg

Wolves are part of the ecosystem, whether we like it or not, and they do have a right to a moose or deer to eat just like us. After all, it is survival of the fittest, and in the animal word, they are a top predator.

Do I hunt wolves...you bet, but I have only shot 3, all while hunting moose. I have seen a pack of 16 in Netson Lake one year, and all I had was my bow:frown:. We still saw 17 different bulls that same week and killed two (stupid three on the brow rule). Seen 21, in small packs of 4-6, one year while guiding, shot two. Have been followed, stocked and howled at numerous times, but not once have I been attacked:eek:. Must be the ZEST smell I use:p.

I just do not believe the "Kill them all" concept that we could be teaching our young, up and coming hunters. Not a great image I want my girls reading or seeing from the hunting fraturnity.

I will stand down and let someone else at the mike.

Cheers

SS

[Singleshotneeded]

:-) Hey Stillhunting, Exactly, if wolf packs would only fight wars with other wolf packs, get drunk on long weekends and go driving, and engage in high risk sports/activities with minimum/no protective equipment, then they'd be able to keep their numbers down without any help. Unfortunately, only humans are stupid enough to do those things...:D

[7mag700]

The only valid reason a person needs to hunt is an open season.

I have been waiting patiently for my very own super-cool-Gatehouse-quotation-sig-line. And now I have found it :cool:

...and I agree. BC's wildlife management isn't perfect, but it is still among the best in the world.

7m7

[dutchie]

I have been trying not to post but.... what the heck.

Wolves are dogs... dogs have HUGE litters once and some every 18 months.

All of the wolves we wee today if they are not controled properly in some areas will explode the populations extremely radpidly, some will grow slowly.

wether humans like it or not... wolves ARE smarter then us in thier natural enviroment. (look at the snare PG66 had and the wolf walked right up to it, and truned around)

I WILL shoot every wolf I get the chance to but they do not present the chance very offten.

I think that alot of people on the site here including myself have te view of a dead wolf is a good wolf. For me it is because
A) - they are my competition for game
B) - they are way darn smarter then me at thier game and are a tough hunt.
C) - they have very litte fear of anything.
D) - they kill and do not eat it, that drives me nuts. It is kind of like us going to the range too shoot our rifles

I for one don't think this guy is part of PETA - but i don't think he understands what is heppeneing in areas of BC with the wolf populations because he is educated by old material.

I have always maintained that a good defence is a great offence, and all we are doing is creating a good offence against the wolves so we do not get the same situation in other parts of BC as we have ing the Chilcotin region.

dutchie

[#1fishslayer]

I think Killemall missed this thread. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=17807&highlight=rockdoctor

Wolves are, and always be hunted, I say hunt them hard boys.

[elker]

Not sure why the big hard on to hate wolves??

And what is next?? Cougars?? Black bears?? Grizzly or better yet, those damn bobcats......

I will never understand the blood lust for killing wolves. Hunting and trapping them...yes, but the uncontrolable fever of KILLING THEM ALL is what I do not understand.

Cheers

SS

You have perfectly answered your own question.

Cougars, black bears, grizzlies all kill deers, but people don't "hate" them as they do to wolves. why? because they don't threaten wildlife as much as wolves do!

Being part of ecosytem is not the reason we can let wolves grow unchecked. Humans are part of the ecosytem now, should we get the green light to shoot what we see as wolves do to their preys? NO. we know we have to be very responsible to maintain the viable ecosystem. But do wolves know they have the responsibility to keep the system sustainable, NO! they don't. the only way to help them is too shoot them.

"The only good wolf is a dead wolf ", currently is 100% correct. It will be 90% correct if the wolf population be reduced to half. It will be 50% correct if we have about 5-6 wolves in the whole world.

[Sitkaspruce]

You have perfectly answered your own question.

Cougars, black bears, grizzlies all kill deers, but people don't "hate" them as they do to wolves. why? because they don't threaten wildlife as much as wolves do!

Really????? Wow you must be one of those arm chair biologists who has not see the devistation coyote's do on sheep numbers in SW BC, or what cougars do to deer on the Island, or sheep in SW BC, or what BB and grizz do to moose calves in the drainages around PG. Come on, you really think that Mother Nature would really allow the population to go unbalanced just with wolves and that all other preds only kill a male when there is too many or a female when there is too many? Preds do not give a damn about sex or prey species for that matter, they are all equal oppurtunity feeders. When we walk in and screw up the balance, the preds always get the heat.

Being part of ecosytem is not the reason we can let wolves grow unchecked. Humans are part of the ecosytem now, should we get the green light to shoot what we see as wolves do to their preys? NO. we know we have to be very responsible to maintain the viable ecosystem. But do wolves know they have the responsibility to keep the system sustainable, NO! they don't. the only way to help them is too shoot them.

Your joking right?????:eek:

"The only good wolf is a dead wolf ", currently is 100% correct. It will be 90% correct if the wolf population be reduced to half. It will be 50% correct if we have about 5-6 wolves in the whole world.

I hope my kids can grow up to be able to hear those 5-6 wolves howl at night and be able to see them in a zoo, because from what I am getting from you, that would be the only thing that will make you happy. Such a shame in the way us "Hunters" think about wildlife:-(:frown::cool:. No wonder we are going down hill with #'s and are barley hanging on against the anti's.

SS

[RiverOtter]

wether humans like it or not... wolves ARE smarter then us in thier natural enviroment. (look at the snare PG66 had and the wolf walked right up to it, and truned around)


Wolves are equipped with super sensitive smell, powerfull jaws and the instinct to pack up, to increase their hunting odds. But, they are NOT "smarter" than humans, no matter what environment they are in. Wolves may be "leary" or "fearful" of certain smells or certain areas, but minus the ability to think and reason, wolves are in the same boat as any other wild animal.

There has yet to be a wolf, or any other animal, that is too smart to be trapped. You may have to change up a set, or move locations, but with a little "reasoning" man will always come out on top.

[ElkMasterC]

I have been waiting patiently for my very own super-cool-Gatehouse-quotation-sig-line. And now I have found it :cool:

...and I agree. BC's wildlife management isn't perfect, but it is still among the best in the world.

7m7

Didn't see THAT coming a mile off....lol
I saw that post and thought "By the time the weekend is over, someone's gonna tagline that"

Oh and SS, you're wasting your time.
I'm pretty sure Elker is related to Elkdom.
Or inter-related......
Or something ... :rolleyes:

I think the purpose of this thread was to ask; not WHY we hunt wolves, not WHY we would shoot one (I mean, who has in here....hands up.......yeah, I thought so), but why it stirs up such mouth-foaming, torch-waving vitriol in people. Think about that fat piece of S#!t Rush Limbaugh going on about those nice, peace loving Democrats.
Like that.
Why there is a primal 'thirst for blood' fear about wolves??
Some people have answered intelligently and thoughtfully.
Some are knuckle-dragging Troglodytes.
The point is, almost NONE of these guys are EVER gonna harvest a Wolf, except if it runs under the wheels of their crappy Ford while they're out crossbow road-hunting and drinking Lucky Lager. By accident.
And that's the tooth.

So I wouldn't worry about it Sitka. I wouldn't worry one bit.
EMC, peace out.

[skibum]

Has anyone heard of a wolf killing a human in Canada? - couple of years ago, in Sask or Man. I think they thought a wolf pack killed someone lost but it was actually a bear. I have heard lots of stalking stories, but no human kills. Dogs chasing after a wolf doesn't count. I heard that there have not been any wolf attacks in Canada - if they do, the recipient always had a gun :) - so has a wolf attacked anyone - not stalked but attacked here - actually been bit?

I am not anti-wolf hunting or any bullsh!t like that -

[elker]

Come on, you really think that Mother Nature would really allow the population to go unbalanced just with wolves and that all other preds only kill a male when there is too many or a female when there is too many? Preds do not give a damn about sex or prey species for that matter, they are all equal oppurtunity feeders. When we walk in and screw up the balance, the preds always get the heat.

I believe you missed the most important point: we need to utilize the wildlife.

Why should we let predators damage the wildlife environment and wait for a few dacades to have a new balance? People should be more active involved in balancing the wildlife system. That is what Alskan government has done to keep wolves on check so the people can have moose meat to eat.

Why we are losing the battle with anti hunting groups?

one important reason is some of the hunters think the same way as those anti hunting people, they believe Mother Nature will take care of every thing. they forget that humans should utilize the nature! we can get meat, food from it! not just watching them live and die.

[elker]

Has anyone heard of a wolf killing a human in Canada? - couple of years ago, in Sask or Man. I think they thought a wolf pack killed someone lost but it was actually a bear. I have heard lots of stalking stories, but no human kills. Dogs chasing after a wolf doesn't count. I heard that there have not been any wolf attacks in Canada - if they do, the recipient always had a gun :) - so has a wolf attacked anyone - not stalked but attacked here - actually been bit?

I am not anti-wolf hunting or any bullsh!t like that -

last month, a Quebec couple got lost in the snow in BC. the wife died of hyperthemia and the husband got rescued. while they were waiting for the rescue, they had to fight off wolves using their ski equipment.

do you think those wolves were there to make friends with the couple?

[Squirrelnuts]

Has anyone heard of a wolf killing a human in Canada? - couple of years ago, in Sask or Man. I think they thought a wolf pack killed someone lost but it was actually a bear.

His name was Kent Carnegie and the "bear" red herring was Paul Paquet bullshit.

[ElkMasterC]

Kent Joel Carnegie (age 22) of Ontario, Canada, was killed by a wolf in late autumn 2005. Carnegie's death was the first human, killed by a wolf, for more than 100 years. His death occured in northern Saskatchewan. Kent Joel Carnegie was a geological engineering student who was studying uranium, gold, and silver mining near Wollaston Lake.
Carnegie photographed wolves and may have given them food scraps to keep them around. He may have been too familiar with the wolves who expected food from humans? No one is sure.
In Ontario, Canada, in 1996, another wolf was said to have entered a campground and started to drag off a sleeping bag with a 11-year old boy. The boy had eighty stitches and survived. In Algonquin Provincial Park there were only four other wolf related incidents in 25 years.

[Sitkaspruce]

Come on, you really think that Mother Nature would really allow the population to go unbalanced just with wolves and that all other preds only kill a male when there is too many or a female when there is too many? Preds do not give a damn about sex or prey species for that matter, they are all equal oppurtunity feeders. When we walk in and screw up the balance, the preds always get the heat.

I believe you missed the most important point: we need to utilize the wildlife.

But I believe we do, at least all the hunters I know utilize the wildlife. I think that is why we go hunting, and it is called hunting, not killing. If you are one of those "hunters" that bases his success on what is hanging in camp, or what is in your freezer, then we are losing touch with what hunting is all about.

Why should we let predators damage the wildlife environment and wait for a few dacades to have a new balance? People should be more active involved in balancing the wildlife system. That is what Alskan government has done to keep wolves on check so the people can have moose meat to eat.

And they have a whole lot of area that does not see this happen and still there is a good balance between preds and prey, and good success from the hunters. Same as in BC.

Why we are losing the battle with anti hunting groups?

one important reason is some of the hunters think the same way as those anti hunting people, they believe Mother Nature will take care of every thing. they forget that humans should utilize the nature! we can get meat, food from it! not just watching them live and die.

I guess your one way of looking at the pred/prey relationship and I am of the other, so I will agree to disagree with you and will step down from my soap box....;-)

Cheers

SS

[killemall]

Thanks sitka and elkmaster for seeing my point of the post. Well thought out responses. Im no anti i just dont understand where these guys see the need to control mother nature and wipe out a species. Not saying balance here and there is bad.

I guess it took guys like elker to help convay my point. His posts show the mindset that most good hunters would find uneducated and negative. He is grouping hunters with antis because they think its foolish to remove a major species from nature. Hope now the reasoning for the post is a little bit clearer

[mcrae]

I have had the chance over the years to take wolves on more than a couple of occasions but I never actual do. I find myself just watching. I don't know why I don't shoot I don't even like dogs???

Up north while moose hunting I had a wolf about 15 feet from me and it was one of the cooler experiences I have had. It was walking a river bank I was hunting and did not notice me until it was right in front of me. We watched each other for about 15 min before it moved away. I did not shoot it because I was enjoying the interaction I suppose...

I do believe they need to be controlled and its best if guys take them out when they get the chance I am just not sure if I will if given the opportunity again...

My hunting party that year caught a pack on the road and got most of them which I thought was pretty cool....I got to look at them up close and there where a couple of decent size wolves in that group...Even with that group taken out there was still a good size pack hunting the river bottom...

[killemall]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgj6TfZd8Os&feature=related

Interesting watch

[Camp Cook]

More like interesting read...

What an load of emotional spewing drivel in the comments on that video it was amazing...

Thanks for posting that link it will help remind me why I'm going to try and shoot a couple more wolves before the end of the season. 8-)

[Gateholio]

Thanks for posting that link it will help remind me why I'm going to try and shoot a couple more wolves before the end of the season. 8-)

Remember, many wolf seasons in BC have been lengthened to June 15 now.:cool:

[mcrae]

The nonsense that is posted after that video makes me realize how stupid most people are. One person even goes so far as to suggest that anybody shooting a wolf should be shot...

[Dannybuoy]

More like interesting read...

What an load of emotional spewing drivel in the comments on that video it was amazing...

Thanks for posting that link it will help remind me why I'm going to try and shoot a couple more wolves before the end of the season. 8-)

Right on Camp Cook .... I almost wish there were more wolves in this area ... almost because if there were the deer/moose wouldnt be as plentiful as they are ...
Killing or hunting wolves has Nothing to do with respect for nature ....anymore than killing cockroaches or mosquitoes ....(part of nature ) As long as there is wilderness (parks etc) you are not going to get them all anyway (wolves)... in the mean time they do need to be kept under control ... We ( hunters/trappers) are never going to please the bunnyhuggers (killemall) types anyway .... I know if any wolf ever howls/snarls/looks at me and i have a firearm handy .. there will be at least one less wolf walking around !

[SteadyGirl]

I'm not thrilled with alot of the nonsense on this thread:wink: before the vid included

[Camp Cook]

June 15 thats awesome news...

SteadyGirl any wolves over your way I will be coming back into BC thru your way 3-4th week of April could take care of some of them for you or show you how to call them in...

I'll be bringing my new Sako 85 Grey Wolf in 22-250 that I just bought need to break it in... :

[yukon john]

Just out of curiosity sitkaspruce does the outfitter you work for share your wolf hugging views? Or is he more in touch with the reality of what is happening in B.C.

[elker]

As I said before, it is the predator hugging culture. You can see it at BBC, CBC, National Geographic, Discovery....

They don't tell truth, they tell lies. Like what Killemall did.

I am waiting for my first licence. Hope I could get a couple wolves this coming season.

[SteadyGirl]

Just out of curiosity sitkaspruce does the outfitter you work for share your wolf hugging views? Or is he more in touch with the reality of what is happening in B.C.

SS is one of the most level headed people on this site! He along with another %10 of this site kill %90 of the game huntingbc takes in per year!
The rest of the posters on here are just cyber - wanna- hunt - types.

I don't know enough about your posts yet to know YJ and I can't say I'll be watching:lol:

[killemall]

More like interesting read...

Thanks for posting that link it will help remind me why I'm going to try and shoot a couple more wolves before the end of the season. 8-)

Haha as already said chances are you wont shoot a wolf as well as elker. I just read the comments and had to laugh also. All videos like that have idiots posting on them.

Elker i didnt post lies? i posted the only relative info nobody has come up with any better numbers in 12 pages. Im sure its somewhere out there so putup or shutup

Dannybuoy,elker yukon john you think im a bunnyhugger and sitka spruce? Come on you would have to be idiots which you are showing is true. Bunnyhuggers would say dont hunt, dont touch wolves im going to do everything in my power to stop hunters bla bla bla. Use your head. Sitka is a skilled hunter he just thinks all wolves dont need to be killed they are amazing animals. Good to see more posts comfirming what the thread is about

[mcrae]

Just out of curiosity sitkaspruce does the outfitter you work for share your wolf hugging views? Or is he more in touch with the reality of what is happening in B.C.


How did any of his post come across as wolf hugging? He says he has hunted wolves and has killed wolves and agrees with wolf hunting????

Thats a wolf hugger???

[yukon john]

HaHaHa!! steadygirl I spend 180 days+ every year in the bush scouting, guiding and hunting I live out there and ride a horse to work every morning!

[SteadyGirl]

HaHaHa!! steadygirl I spend 180 days+ every year in the bush scouting, guiding and hunting I live out there and ride a horse to work every morning!

PFFFFFFFTTTTTTT -- that doesn't mean your any good at it:lol::lol:

[yukon john]

Yes ma'am I do a good job

[elker]

Yes ma'am I do a good job

do you notice that the Steadygirl is not that steady while typing, like "PFFFFFFFTTTTTTT".

You know why.:D

[Dannybuoy]

How did any of his post come across as wolf hugging? He says he has hunted wolves and has killed wolves and agrees with wolf hunting????

Thats a wolf hugger???
?? I just re-read this entire thread and nowhere does he say he has hunted wolves ..or anything for that matter .. the closest that he comes is saying he doesnt hunt any more .... maybe he never did hunt ? I dont know or care ...
There have been more knowledegable guys than I posting on this thread about what a unchecked wolf population will do to the wildlife .... I choose to agree ...

[mcrae]

Wolves are part of the ecosystem, they represent the top of the food chain in a lot of areas. They are also a huntable species that need to be controled. Mother nature does that on her own, but when we interupt the cycle with our own brand of ecosystem, things go sideways. Hunting and trapping wolves has been going on for decades, and the population is still around. Don't worrry about the wolf population, it is safe to say that it will still be here when your grandchildren hunt.

As for all the folks who are going to go wolf hunting, they are one of the hardest animals to hunt. They are not like ungulates, so most who do go out, get bored and frustrated fast and usually quite with in a few days or even hours of venturing forward on their quest.

I have seriously hunted then hard for 10 years and have never killed one while hunting them. I have had a few chances, but they are smarter than most think. I have been lucky to kill a few while hunting other species though. They are more an oppurtunity kill then a hunted one.

Cheers

SS


Doesn't come across as a wolf hugger to me?? The jab was made at Sitkaspruce I was just curious why someone referred to him as a wolf hugger is all..

[Dannybuoy]

Doesn't come across as a wolf hugger to me??
Ahhh not SS ... I thought you were referring to the originator of this thread ... I would definately would not refer to SS as a hugger of bunnies or wolves ...

[elker]

Ahhh not SS ... I thought you were referring to the originator of this thread ... I would definately would not refer to SS as a hugger of bunnies or wolves ...

SS is definitely a different person than killemall or steadygirl. He is a great guy, I believe. And his debate attitude is also very good.

Actually, I read many SS's posts at sport fishing bc forom. I thought he is fishing guide only. Glad to know he is also a hunting guide.

[Camp Cook]

Haha as already said chances are you wont shoot a wolf as well as elker. I just read the comments and had to laugh also. All videos like that have idiots posting on them.


No way not me I could never shoot a wolf... :shock:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/550/medium/32188small0426.jpg

Here's it's mate...

http://www.hunt101.com/data/550/medium/32188small0431.jpg

[yukon john]

Alright I like elkers view on things if he says sitkaspruce is good stuff I retract my previous statement I get upset about the amount of misinformation about wolves. No offense SS

[mcrae]

CampCook that's a pretty decent wolf!!!! It actually amazed me to see how big they actually are up close and personal. The size of the head and jaws on the one I checked out was impressive...

[ElkMasterC]

Looks like Sitka's killed three wolves, and sh1tload of other game..
More than I can say for most of the members of this site, myself included.



How does that make him a Wolf Hugger?

Some people need to read and think more, and type and talk less.

[elker]

No way not me I could never shoot a wolf... :shock:

http://www.hunt101.com/data/550/medium/32188small0426.jpg

Here's it's mate...

http://www.hunt101.com/data/550/medium/32188small0431.jpg

Great job!

I hope I could do the same in a few seasons. I am brand new to hunting.

again,here is another lie from killemall, he (or she) said you are no better hunter than me.

Originally Posted by killemall http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=424264#post424264)
Haha as already said chances are you wont shoot a wolf as well as elker. I just read the comments and had to laugh also. All videos like that have idiots posting on them.

[mcrae]

Here is a pic of one of the little ones my hunting buddies got. I took a pic of this one because of the coloration it was pretty different from what I had been seeing...I can't actually remember I think my brother got this one but it was a bad day for wolves around our camp...


http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/sako555/scan0001.jpg

[yukon john]

That a pretty wolf never seen one like that

[Camp Cook]

The resolution on the camera isn't good enough to show the moose way behind my right shoulder on the shore line but it is there it had been out on the middle of the river (yes that is the Fraser) with the wolves circling it.

These 2 wolves had been chasing it for a long time it could barely stand and turn to face them, I think the wolves scented me because they took off from the moose but they ran up river straight across from me 2 60gr Sierra Varminter HP's @ 3550fps from my old Ruger 22-250 dropped them both instantly shots were appr 220 yards.

and that is only two of the many... :wink:

[Manglinmike]

Man ,that black and silver wolf is a keeper

[Johnnybear]

Man ,that black and silver wolf is a keeper


X2. That's a cool looking coat on that wolf for sure.

[todbartell]

Here's it's mate...




These 2 wolves had been chasing it for a long time it could barely stand and turn to face them, I think the wolves scented me because they took off from the moose but they ran up river straight across from me 2 60gr Sierra Varminter HP's @ 3550fps from my old Ruger 22-250 dropped them both instantly shots were appr 220 yards.

and that is only two of the many...

I remember when you shot that wolf! that was an exciting story, I found it on CGN :smile:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135453

[Camp Cook]

You are so quick... :wink:

[elker]

I remember when you shot that wolf! that was an exciting story, I found it on CGN :smile:

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=135453

Could you pls copy and paste the story here? I can not read it unless I am the member of that site

[PGK]

What happened to your thread on CGN Camp Cook?

[todbartell]

Could you pls copy and paste the story here? I can not read it unless I am the member of that site

it was there, but it's been edited and removed. Too bad, it was a good story!:neutral: