Everybody Votes on this one!!! (Please!)

[ElkMasterC]

Hi all!

There's been lots of talk about presenting a united front as hunters and gun owners, outdoorsmen and women and conservationists on this site.
Even a recent thread promoting a letter-writing campaign provokes debate.

It got me wondering....how united are we? Some have suggested that as BC Residents, that the best thing to do would be for everyone to join the BCWF, and hopefully empower them to speak for a united group, giving more weight to our voice, and more unity to our vote.

The results will be anonymous, so please, whether you are a member of any clubs or not, please post a truthful answer.
I realize the results will be skewed, since I would think that people that DO belong would be more likely to vote. Also, I would think that people that frequent the site more are more likely to belong to a group (active) and thus, more likely to read this thread and vote.
Therefore, i realize it's not scientific, but perhaps it will give us a handle on roughly who belongs where.
Do you have a suggestion for other groups? I won't list them all, but who should we give one voice to?
Say, if you had to join ONE group as a BC Hunter, which would it be?

[frodo]

Ducks Unlimited

[PGK]

Ducks Unlimited.

The BCWF has become distasteful to me, after many many years of support and active involvement.

[ROEBUCK]

my bcwf membership runs out in june.will not be renewing as have no confidence in them! planning to maybe join safari club international!.also my trapper training starts in april and i will join there organisation. bcwf reminds me more of the ,world wildlife fund ,rather than a hunting organisation

[orion]

I belong to the BCWF through my club affiliation but like PGK often find the policies and antiquated thinking (particularly with fishing issues) hard to support.
I also belong to the RMEF but will be re-assessing after this year as I have heard that they will be giving less or no support to BC projects in the future. I need to check this out further as I enjoy getting the "Bugle" mag every month.
Roebuck, you may wish to check out SCI (try the Accurateloading.com forum) as there is a lot of controversy about this organization as well.

[ElkMasterC]

Hmmm.. DU out to an early lead.
I guess i should have started. I belong to BCWF through The PoCo gun Club. RMEF (I also love getting BUGLE), Boone and Crockett (FAIR CHASE; talk about an awesome magazine..it's worth the membership just for the photos)
And the Nature Conservancy of Canada.
I think that's it....lol

[wolverine]

I belong to BCWF through my club and used to be a member on my own. I don't have a lot of faith in the BCWF as they have really become a political animal instead of just looking out for our best interests. I might look at Safari Club as well but I must say this.... I don't care what club, whether it's being a member of this site or BCWF or any other, I still am capable of indepenant thinking and I won't agree with everyone, everytime, without fail. Especially on matters such as gun control. If I don't agree with a letter that I am asked to sign I won't sign it and shouldn't be expected to be shunned or chastised because of it. It seems that many of the clubs have the "your either with us or against us" all or nothing mind set. That, to me, is a dangerous way of thinking that was popular from about 1939 to 45.

[1/2 slam]

I'm a life member of the Wild Sheep Society of BC and the Grand Slam Club. I don't have much use for BCWF.

[ElkMasterC]

It seems that many of the clubs have the "your either with us or against us" all or nothing mind set. That, to me, is a dangerous way of thinking that was popular from about 1939 to 45.

And with the Bush Administration. ;-)



I'm surprised how fragmented this is already.

Point of discussion:

Wouldn't it be better to all at least BELONG to one club, and work to make it better, than to fragment ourselves off into sub-groups, according to our mammal or fowl, or interest?
I don't imagine a well-heeled Trophy group like SCI is going to give a rat's ass about doe allocations in 8-1.
What do you think?

[PGK]

Exactly, I give my money to an organization that actually gives me something back. The BCWF.....not so much

[wetcoastwillie]

BCWF through the local club

CSSA

Was a member of RFOCBC till they ceased.

[sfire436]

Just curious what the backlash toward the BCWF is? pm me if you do not feel like making your opinion public.

Nick

[ElkMasterC]

I'm curious as well.
Seems like the vast majority (over 60% at present) belong, but there are no Pro-BCWF posts.
What gives?

[The Hermit]

BCWF through Vic Fish and Game. I also belong to Traditional Bowhunters of BC, and The United Bowhunters of BC.

I think the BCWF does a decent job on the general conservation front and that they try to represent BC resident hunters well. However, they can't realistically claim to represent all BC Resident Hunters as they only have some 12,000 members, most of whom belong to local Rod/Gun/Fish/Game clubs the majority of whose members are fishers and handgun owners.

It is my opinion that the BCWF does not represent the views and interests of bow hunters very well which is why I joined the UBBC.

[Gateholio]

All the organizations have warts on them. None are perfect. BCWF is the strongest lobby group for BC hunters we have, and I am happy to be a member. member of the WSSBC and NFA, too.

I lost quite a bit of respect for DU when they acted wishy washy about the firearms Act/gun registry, but I guess they are effective in waterfowl habitat preservation.

[trapperdan2061]

the problem so much isn't the organizations but the in fighting in them, the gun hunters want this and the bow hunters want that, then the muzzle loaders want another thing, then there's fishing, hiking, camping, mountian bikers, bird watchers, canoeists, wildlife photographers, oh ya then thers the ANTI'S,

That 15% that don't belong to any organization you my friends are where they will start. Then they will come here to the Island and say look we want to ban hunting on Vancouver Island most of the hunters here don't even hunt the island so they won't even notice it missing.

I would love to sit down with a couple of lawyers and develop a group, we would have the government add $5.00 to all hunting and fishing liscences in Canada, then work an agreement with all the outdoor, camping, ect. clubs in Canada to join.

Or perhaps we could add a tax to all outdoors equipment the tax could go to the new federation then people would apply to be members these members would fill out surveys and the information would direct the new federation.

Far fetched don't think so this is what it will take to save us all.......

Now we have one voice with one direction, and have the constitution made so it will always be ONE VOICE.

[Shermdog]

From what I understand I am part of the BCWF through my gun club. This is the only reason why I am part of BCWF, otherwise I would not have joined myself due to lack of knowledge about its benefits and costs.

[ElkMasterC]

This thread is opening new possibilities.

Any 1 from BCWF staff reading?

[Johnnybear]

I am a dual member of the BCWF. I am a member with my membership to the Nanaimo Fish and Game and I get a membership directly with them every year. Every other year I donate extra money to them. They are what we have here in B.C. I don't know as much about them as others on this site but I am learning more each year. I think they are what we have to go with and we need to write letters to them, organize through our clubs, etc. to get them on the track we want them to go. In others words work with what you got. My 2 cents.

[boxhitch]

Its clear that those against the BCWF don't have a total picture of what it is up against and what they do accomplish with what they have to work with. The BCWF mandate is clear, and certainly to the benefit of the average hunter in BC. No, they don't give special consideration to special interest groups.
Was said the fed has 12000 members. If 80% of the game clubs belong, and members are BCWF members by association, and there are 86000 hunters in BC, then that points to the sad state of the local club memberships too.

[PGK]

Its clear that those against the BCWF don't have a total picture of what it is up against and what they do accomplish with what they have to work with. The BCWF mandate is clear, and certainly to the benefit of the average hunter in BC. No, they don't give special consideration to special interest groups.
Was said the fed has 12000 members. If 80% of the game clubs belong, and members are BCWF members by association, and there are 86000 hunters in BC, then that points to the sad state of the local club memberships too.

Actually, it was made pretty clear to me by several presidents and past presidents that the BCWF is advocating and will continue to advocate for a kill fishery on wild region 6 steelhead.

Screw you guys

[boxhitch]

BCWF is advocating and will continue to advocate for a kill fishery on wild region 6 steelhead.
And the logic or lack of would fill another thread.
But reallity is that is no excuse to ignore what they do that is good.
And if you disagree so strongly, who are you crying to ? or how are you going about a change ?

[Skeena Hunter 1]

Actually, it was made pretty clear to me by several presidents and past presidents that the BCWF is advocating and will continue to advocate for a kill fishery on wild region 6 steelhead.

Screw you guys

What is wrong with that? They taste good and there are lots of them.

Oh, I am sure the Fed is better off with out you, if your last comment is any indication of your attitude.

[6616]

This has been hashed over in other threads and the message is still the same,,,the BCWF is only what we (the hunting and fishing citizens of BC) make it into, if we are apathetic, the BCWF will be apathetic,,,, if we give them strong support they will live up to our expectations. Nuff said, let the poll results do the talking..!

[GoatGuy]

I belong to a couple other conservation organizations. Some of them aren't hunting organizations, some are.

The BCWF does a pile of work, most of which never hits the net. Some people have the impression that if you don't support a group you're better off. Kinda like voting, they just 'opt out'.

Sounds good in theory but when you're dealing with thousands of other people who are more committed than hunters to getting rid of hunting than you are of keeping it we have a problem.

Funny, nobody knows how close hunters come to loosing grizzly bear hunting every election and the hundreds of thousands of hours put in by volunteers to put a stop to it. But, a hunter doesn't get his LEH and wait to hear the whining.

Some people are looking to be represented on one view point instead of the big picture. "I want the season date to end on XXXX." "I want a X pt restriction." "I want a XXXX season because of XXXX." Small potatoes folks.

There are areas across the province where you have lost and are losing your ability to access and hunt wildlife, where LEH is being suggested as a social tool to keep resident hunters out, where other user groups want 'wildlife sanctuaries', no shooting zones, restrictive seasons and on and on and on. And guess what: over the last 25 years they've been winning the war. Big picture, resident hunters and anglers have lost and lost heavily since the early 80s.


A membership to any organization isn't going to keep hunting going either. It'll take time and dedication to ensure the future of hunting.



Hunters need to realize that without having the ability to hunt you don't have the choice of what kind of season you want.

[bridger]

I'm a life member of the Wild Sheep Society of BC and the Grand Slam Club. I don't have much use for BCWF.

from your handle i assume you are a sheep hunter. you can still hunt sheep in bc without going on leh thanks to the bcwf and resident sheep hunters now will be allotted the majority of hunting opportunites thanks to the bcwf.

[GoatGuy]

I'm a life member of the Wild Sheep Society of BC and the Grand Slam Club. I don't have much use for BCWF.

Too funny, how does removing quota and going back to 33% on sheep sound?


Three letters across the Province for sheep hunters.



L...............................................E. ............................................H

[Johnnybear]

from your handle i assume you are a sheep hunter. you can still hunt sheep in bc without going on leh thanks to the bcwf and resident sheep hunters now will be allotted the majority of hunting opportunites thanks to the bcwf.

Good post Bridger.

We need to support the biggest and only "real" group we have. The problem is most don't even know what they are about. They don't join their local clubs and they think "we'll just go hunting". Well there is an organization out there in place right now that makes sure you can go hunting!!! Support them.

[bridger]

Too funny, how does removing quota and going back to 33% on sheep sound?


Three letters across the Province for sheep hunters.



L...............................................E. ............................................H

x2 good response

[Kitimat Killer]

life member of the wild sheep society
ducks unlimited part of the kitimat club
bcwf through the local rod and gun

[GoatGuy]

Exactly, I give my money to an organization that actually gives me something back. The BCWF.....not so much

How about the ability to go out and hunt?

No BCWF= no immature bull moose season.

It'd be all LEH.

[PGK]

How about the ability to go out and hunt?

No BCWF= no immature bull moose season.

It'd be all LEH.

So what? I only hunt moose when I have an LEH anyway, save for calf season.

[Gateholio]

So what? I only hunt moose when I have an LEH anyway, save for calf season.

You want to only be able to hunt when you get an LEH?:shock:

[6616]

The BCWF has 23 committees dealing with a multitude of land use issues, involved with land use planning processes, with industrial and commercial impacts on fish, wildlife, and habitat,,,, inland fisheries, saltwater fisheries, firearms, wildlife, conservation, etc, all dealing with issues to protect BC citizens rights to hunt and fish, staffed with over 200 volunteer members, all working to protect the rights of BC resident hunters and outdoorsmen.

Do you really think the Sheep Foundation, DU, SCI, RMEF, etc, are going to do that, are they going to be in Victoria daily beating on the doors of politicians and high level bueaurocrats advocating on behalf of BC resident hunters? Not likely when their members are mostly non-canadians who need a guide to hunt in BC,,, or will they be advocating on behalf of the guide-outfitters who provide the hunting oppoprtunities in BC for the bulk of their members (if they can even figure out where Victoria is)?

Do you think foreign or American based organizations like the SCI or the Sheep Foundation will be fighting for resident allocation or resident priority over and above non-resident allocations, etc...???

These are all good organizations from a conservation viewpoint, but do they really give a rats ass about a lowly deer hunter from Salmon Arm or Penticton who only wants to shoot a meat buck, do you think they really give a rats ass about any BC resident hunters at all?

[PGK]

You want to only be able to hunt when you get an LEH?:shock:

Sure, why not.

[Singleshotneeded]

:smile: I'm a member of the BCWF, and I think that it's important for everyone involved in hunting and fishing to be a member. Without an association
that has a large membership lobbying government on our behalf, politicians will tend to work against us. Victoria needs to know there are a lot of us, and that we're willing to stand up for what we want. If some of you feel the BCWF isn't doing all it could be doing for us, then write in, vote, and change things from within! If we're divided or apathetic, the antis and the tree molesters will win, and steal the outdoors from us!

[bridger]

I really liked the reply 6616 gave as to the working of the bcwf. I don't think the majority of resident hunters realize how much work the federation does. maybe that is something the fed should advertise more. the reply from wolverine saying that the bcwf has become to political and not looking our for his best interest got me to thinking. Guess what Wolverine? hunting is political and anyone who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken. (recent ad in the vancouver sun) In my opinion the biggest single endangered species in our province is the bc resident hunter. the guy that likes to go with friends or family and enjoy this great sport in this great province and put a moose in the freezer. The recently negotiated allocation policy is a prime example. The fed has an excellent committee of volunteers but because of funding issues we usually communicate by email and the odd conference call. Let me set the stage for you when the acutal meeting at the provincial level starts. The negoitiating team from the goabc are all paid employees not volunteers which means that they spend a lot more time and money in preparation and lobbying. At times they also have two consultants that are actually two ex employees of the moe. One a retired biologist the other a retired regional manager getting paid several hundred dollars a day to now champion the cause of non resident hunters. Other times they have a professional biologist on staff giving the moe advice on harvest levels etc. The BCWF committee is strictly volunteer often paying our own expenses and almost always missing two or three days pay from work. Its like being in a street fight with one hand tied behind your back. Who funds the goabc? The sheep foundation, the grandslam club, the rocky mtn elk foundation, the safari club, and the bc non resident hunting opportunites preservation fund. As Andy says do you really think these organizations give a rats ass about the bc resident hunter? I can tell you from personal experince not even a small rats ass. Please don't take this as a rant it isn't. This thread brings to light what in my opinion is the biggest threat to our sport. Complaceny and division. I have said it on this site in the past and I will say it again if every hunter in the province joined the bcwf and donated only $100 each year we would see even more fantastic results from a fantastic organization. If you would like changes in the bcwf don't bitch from the sidelines. Get involved ; it is our only chance.

[Deaddog]

We as resident Hunters need the BCWF, while no organization is perfect this is the organization that has stood up to speak for ALL hunters to the best of their ability. Other organizations may speak to habitat or conservation, however we need the BCWF to speak for us in regards to LEH's and other items. It was pressure from the Fed that has gotten residents a larger allocation of animals. For those who wish to criticize I would suggest the following.. Lead, Follow or get out of the way, If you don't like what an organization is doing get involved and change it. As bridger has stated the Fed volunteers are losing wages and tons of time away from their familys to work for you in your best interests to the best of their abilities.. I believe there is no question in regards to supporting the Fed. DD

[BEARSLAYER]

I am a member of BCWF, Canadian Shooting Sports, DU ,and the National Firearms Association. I think belonging to at least one of the national rifle clubs is important. Dont forget with no guns a lot of us would not be hunting. We need someone in Ottawa to give us at least a little hope!

[GoatGuy]

So what? I only hunt moose when I have an LEH anyway, save for calf season.

I forgot, you can cancel the calf season as well. There's already enough pressure to do that.

How does moose hunting on LEH once every 10 years sound in 7A? The way the allocation policy looked at the start that would be about where it ended up.

Sheep would be LEH.

GOS in 6S and the any bull 7B in the Peace would be canceled as well. Every roaded area and rail grade in 6N would be shut down for hunting. Probably end up with a 10 pt/tri-palm in 6 as well.

Todagain would be closed to all hunting - there's no doubt about that one.

Don't forget the original proposal for mule deer in region 5 from CGOA.
Spike only season with the rest on LEH. Sound good?

What else have I seen/heard about lately? 1 in 3 harvest on elk. 4 pt season on wtd. LEH for mule deer bucks. 20 day season in mule deer in the south because there aren't enough big bucks.



Watch your ability to hunt vaporize before your eyes.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Actually, it was made pretty clear to me by several presidents and past presidents that the BCWF is advocating and will continue to advocate for a kill fishery on wild region 6 steelhead.

Screw you guys

Intestingly, it was this same point about a steelhead kill fishery that turned me off about the BWCF back in the early-mid 90's.

At the time I was a direct member and did not renew my membership.

If you've ever read any of Jack Shaw's books, you would recall how a fishermen goes through some typical changes. I went through those changes.
Started off as a novice...and became a pretty decent fishermen....bonked my limit until I started finding bags at the bottom of the freezer.......turned to strictly C&R(fished a lot)........and now I have no problem taking what our family can eat. As predicted I came "full circle".
Back when I did a lot of C&R fishing I, regretably, looked down my nose at "other" methods.

A decade later (and now having a faimly) I started to see the big picture and am a BCWF member through our local club. I'm not as active of a member as I'd like to be but hopefully that will change in the next couple of years as my kids get older.

My hats go off those those dedicated individuals who give up their personal time to fight for the rest of us.

As mentioned above....there is soooooooooo much more going on behind the scenes than most people realize.

To those that are fighting on our behalf....keep up the great work!!!!!!!:smile:

SSS

[Mr. Dean]

The BCWF has 23 committees dealing with a multitude of land use issues, involved with land use planning processes, with industrial and commercial impacts on fish, wildlife, and habitat,,,, inland fisheries, saltwater fisheries, firearms, wildlife, conservation, etc, all dealing with issues to protect BC citizens rights to hunt and fish, staffed with over 200 volunteer members, all working to protect the rights of BC resident hunters and outdoorsmen.

Do you really think the Sheep Foundation, DU, SCI, RMEF, etc, are going to do that, are they going to be in Victoria daily beating on the doors of politicians and high level bueaurocrats advocating on behalf of BC resident hunters? Not likely when their members are mostly non-canadians who need a guide to hunt in BC,,, or will they be advocating on behalf of the guide-outfitters who provide the hunting oppoprtunities in BC for the bulk of their members (if they can even figure out where Victoria is)?

Do you think foreign or American based organizations like the SCI or the Sheep Foundation will be fighting for resident allocation or resident priority over and above non-resident allocations, etc...???

These are all good organizations from a conservation viewpoint, but do they really give a rats ass about a lowly deer hunter from Salmon Arm or Penticton who only wants to shoot a meat buck, do you think they really give a rats ass about any BC resident hunters at all?

BRAVO! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


I can't understand why a hunter or fisherman in BC wouldn't contribute the pittance that it takes to honour a BCFW membership. Especially the HBC followers - They can't use the "not informed/I dunno" excuse when the rationale is on their monitors on a daily basis.

It doesn't take much too see that without this lobby group, little would be left for us today. Never mind 20 years down the trail.


The more fragmented that we become, the less there will be to have.....

Simple as that.

[papaken]

Now a BCWF member thru AFGC and Saggitarious Archers. Was a direct member for 20+ years before I finally joined a club, as I wanted some one fighting for our rights. Also joined NFA for the same reason. Member here, as I think HBC also helps to keep people informed and get hunters message out. I think joining any group that fights for hunters, archers, and shooters rights is a good thing.

[Micky Finn]

The BCWF has 23 committees dealing with a multitude of land use issues, involved with land use planning processes, with industrial and commercial impacts on fish, wildlife, and habitat,,,, inland fisheries, saltwater fisheries, firearms, wildlife, conservation, etc, all dealing with issues to protect BC citizens rights to hunt and fish, staffed with over 200 volunteer members, all working to protect the rights of BC resident hunters and outdoors-men.

Do you really think the Sheep Foundation, DU, SCI, RMEF, etc, are going to do that, are they going to be in Victoria daily beating on the doors of politicians and high level bureaucrats advocating on behalf of BC resident hunters? Not likely when their members are mostly non-canadians who need a guide to hunt in BC,,, or will they be advocating on behalf of the guide-outfitters who provide the hunting opportunities in BC for the bulk of their members (if they can even figure out where Victoria is)?

Do you think foreign or American based organizations like the SCI or the Sheep Foundation will be fighting for resident allocation or resident priority over and above non-resident allocations, etc...???

These are all good organizations from a conservation viewpoint, but do they really give a rats ass about a lowly deer hunter from Salmon Arm or Penticton who only wants to shoot a meat buck, do you think they really give a rats ass about any BC resident hunters at all?


Thank You 6616,

I am a Member of BCWF, CSSA, NFA and was a member of RFOBC until the closed up shop for lack of volunteers.

I am a Vice-President of BCWF, was a Regional President as well until Saturday. I an the Firearms Committee Chair, sit on both the Freshwater and Tidal Water Fisheries Committees, the Parks and Native Affairs Committees. I also sit on the SFAB, last year I attended both North and South Coast.

I am not retired, I have a full time job and a family as well. The rest of the Executive also work and have just as many commitments as I do.

Why would we do this? We don't get paid, we sure don't get to hunt and fish as much as we would like to.

I can't answer for them, but I do it because someone has to and there simply aren't enough volunteers. There are fewer hunters and fishermen and more game than 30 years ago but my kids don't enjoy the opportunities that I did as a young man. I want my grandchildren to still be able to go out and enjoy our lifestyle. We have been loosing because local people thought there is lots of land and opportunity, it will never happen here.

There are 85,000 hunters in BC and perhaps 325,000 fishermen but BCWF has only 30,000 members and we are by far the largest organization speaking for residents. Of that 30,000 perhaps 2% are active participants
in defending the lifestyle.

We try to defend your rights as best we can. If you do not like the direction we are going as a democratic organization you can organize like-minded people and vote to make us change direction. If you want to actually run the Federation yourselves, you can vote us out and take over.

I for one am sure I could find something to do with the time, even in March.

This may be coming off as a rant, but all I am really trying to say is, if you are passionate or even just concerned, Please get active.

I and many others chose the BCWF. You may choose the Bow Hunters, Fly Fishermen or whomever. Once you have chosen, work on your friends and get active, put your money and time into it. Help us defend your rights. The membership of this forum are more likely than the average person to have already done just that.

When Government looks at an issue they look at votes and one of the ways they do that is by the hight of the pile of letter on the table. I would much rather be fighting over the details of how Residents should share the bounty of the land rather than over our right to harvest it at all. Presently there are more people actively fighting to end our lifestyle than preserve it.

Please get join a group and get active. If you already are in a group and don't like the direction its going, work to change it.

Unfortunately, Don't expect immediate results, it took a while to get where we are and it will take at least as long to change it.

Thank you,
Yours in Conservation,
Michael Fowler

[PGK]

Intestingly, it was this same point about a steelhead kill fishery that turned me off about the BWCF back in the early-mid 90's.

At the time I was a direct member and did not renew my membership.

If you've ever read any of Jack Shaw's books, you would recall how a fishermen goes through some typical changes. I went through those changes.
Started off as a novice...and became a pretty decent fishermen....bonked my limit until I started finding bags at the bottom of the freezer.......turned to strictly C&R(fished a lot)........and now I have no problem taking what our family can eat. As predicted I came "full circle".
Back when I did a lot of C&R fishing and, regretably, looked down my nose at "other" methods.

A decade later (and now having a faimly) I started to see the big picture and am a BCWF through our local club. I'm not as active of a member as I'd like to be but hopefully that will change in the next couple of years as my kids get older.

My hats go off those those dedicated individuals who give up their personal time to fight for the rest of us.

As mentioned above....there is soooooooooo much more going on behind the scenes than most people realize.

To those that are fighting on our behalf....keep up the great work!!!!!!!:smile:

SSS

Well Steve I'm pretty much at the top end of the C&R cycle, coming back down to enjoying fish. But there is a difference between enjoying fish and wanting to kill off one of the last wild resources in this province.....only hunters.....the BCWF should stop trying to please all their members and stick to issues on hunting, because they damn sure do not represent the steelhead anglers of the province. If they walked away from fishing advocacy, I would probably consider renewing. Until then, no thanks. I will not support any organization that wants to kill things for the sake of being allowed to kill them.

[6616]

Thank You 6616,

I am a Member of BCWF, CSSA, NFA and was a member of RFOBC until the closed up shop for lack of volunteers.

I am a Vice-President of BCWF, was a Regional President as well until Saturday. I an the Firearms Committee Chair, sit on both the Freshwater and Tidal Water Fisheries Committees, the Parks and Native Affairs Committees. I also sit on the SFAB, last year I attended both North and South Coast.

I am not retired, I have a full time job and a family as well. The rest of the Executive also work and have just as many commitments as I do.

Why would we do this? We don't get paid, we sure don't get to hunt and fish as much as we would like to.

I can't answer for them, but I do it because someone has to and there simply aren't enough volunteers. There are fewer hunters and fishermen and more game than 30 years ago but my kids don't enjoy the opportunities that I did as a young man. I want my grandchildren to still be able to go out and enjoy our lifestyle. We have been loosing because local people thought there is lots of land and opportunity, it will never happen here.

There are 85,000 hunters in BC and perhaps 325,000 fishermen but BCWF has only 30,000 members and we are by far the largest organization speaking for residents. Of that 30,000 perhaps 2% are active participants
in defending the lifestyle.

We try to defend your rights as best we can. If you do not like the direction we are going as a democratic organization you can organize like-minded people and vote to make us change direction. If you want to actually run the Federation yourselves, you can vote us out and take over.

I for one am sure I could find something to do with the time, even in March.

This may be coming off as a rant, but all I am really trying to say is, if you are passionate or even just concerned, Please get active.

I and many others chose the BCWF. You may choose the Bow Hunters, Fly Fishermen or whomever. Once you have chosen, work on your friends and get active, put your money and time into it. Help us defend your rights. The membership of this forum are more likely than the average person to have already done just that.

When Government looks at an issue they look at votes and one of the ways they do that is by the hight of the pile of letter on the table. I would much rather be fighting over the details of how Residents should share the bounty of the land rather than over our right to harvest it at all. Presently there are more people actively fighting to end our lifestyle than preserve it.

Please get join a group and get active. If you already are in a group and don't like the direction its going, work to change it.

Unfortunately, Don't expect immediate results, it took a while to get where we are and it will take at least as long to change it.

Thank you,
Yours in Conservation,
Michael Fowler

And I thank you Mike, great post, I'll for sure buy you a beer in Fernie next month...!
AGP

[beastman]

Well Steve I'm pretty much at the top end of the C&R cycle, coming back down to enjoying fish. But there is a difference between enjoying fish and wanting to kill off one of the last wild resources in this province.....only hunters.....the BCWF should stop trying to please all their members and stick to issues on hunting, because they damn sure do not represent the steelhead anglers of the province. If they walked away from fishing advocacy, I would probably consider renewing. Until then, no thanks. I will not support any organization that wants to kill things for the sake of being allowed to kill them.

couldnt agree more tinn,no respect for steelhead.

that being said.......im a member of bcwf and have been for awhile and will continue to renew because i think the good outweighs the bad.

[bigwhiteys]

I was a member of the BCWF until I moved, and they don't seem to pay any attention to my address change requests??? I'll likely sign up again soon.

I'm also a current member of WSSOBC and Wild Sheep Foundation.

There was no poll option for belonging to more then 1 group.

Carl

[Gateholio]

Well Steve I'm pretty much at the top end of the C&R cycle, coming back down to enjoying fish. But there is a difference between enjoying fish and wanting to kill off one of the last wild resources in this province.....only hunters.....the BCWF should stop trying to please all their members and stick to issues on hunting, because they damn sure do not represent the steelhead anglers of the province. If they walked away from fishing advocacy, I would probably consider renewing. Until then, no thanks. I will not support any organization that wants to kill things for the sake of being allowed to kill them.

Membership driven means that the members say which direction policies will go. So if the members decide they don't want peopel to eat steelhead, then that is what the policy is.:smile:

Is there a true conservation concern with sport anglers eating steelhead in that region?:?:

[budismyhorse]

I was a member of the BCWF until I moved, and they don't seem to pay any attention to my address change requests??? Same for me.....I looked into it....they are back-logged?!

I'm also a current member of WSSOBC and Wild Sheep Foundation.

There was no poll option for belonging to more then 1 group.

Carl

same, furthering my opinion that it is actually impossible to have a perfect poll. :razz:

[PGK]

Membership driven means that the members say which direction policies will go. So if the members decide they don't want peopel to eat steelhead, then that is what the policy is.:smile:

Is there a true conservation concern with sport anglers eating steelhead in that region?:?:

Actually no, that's not true. Because when I brought my concerns to several members, including past and current presidents, I was told that my concerns were not valid and the BCWF would advocate for the death of wild steelhead because they wanted to. The vast majority of members do not even look at the issues, they just blindly throw their support behind something they don't really know anything about.

[BCrams]

The kind of money the Guide Outfitter Association is able to garner for lobbying on their behalf is quite substantial:

Just from the Non-Resident Hunter Preservation Fund, they charge each hunter who comes into BC, $125 dollars.

With roughly 5000 Non-resident hunters coming into BC, they have in the neighborhood of over half a million dollars each year (~$625 000).

Quite a substantial chunk of change to play with, not to mention all other sources of funding for the GO Association.

[orion]

Membership driven means that the members say which direction policies will go. So if the members decide they don't want peopel to eat steelhead, then that is what the policy is.:smile:

Is there a true conservation concern with sport anglers eating steelhead in that region?:?:

Most steelhead anglers realize there is a real conservation concern with all runs of steelhead. Several of the Skeena tributary fish are particularly unique and in danger. Hard to convince the gillnetters to revive their incidental catch when the sporties are just going to eat them anyway. In this case it was the Skeena BCWF members that pushed for steelhead to be eaten. When I tried to make my views known through my local BCWF delegate I got the feeling that there is a lot of "trade-off" about supporting motions. ie. you support my motion and I'll support yours particularly if it doesn't really concern a lot of our areas members.

This and other fisheries issues (ie. lack of support for flyfish only/C&R lakes) make me think that PGK's suggestion that BCWF focus on hunting issues and leave the fisheries to other user organizations is a good one.

I also realize that BCWF has done a lot to maintain my hunting opportunities. This thread is a good reminder that I should probably not whine so much but try again to get more actively involved at my club on BCWF issues.

[ElkMasterC]

same, furthering my opinion that it is actually impossible to have a perfect poll. :razz:

Firstly, it is almost impossible to have a perfect poll on virtually any subject, Bud....lol

The Poll, as explained in my opening post, is skewed to determine who belongs to the BCWF. If you belong to other groups as well, that's fine (In addition to the BCWF).
The SECOND option is "I don't belong to the BCWF, but I DO belong to other pro-hunting groups.", meaning "while not a member of the BCWF, I do support other outdoor groups for sportsmen.
Don't know what the prob is, for the two fine gentlemen that expressed doubt at the options. ;-).
Given the stated nature of the poll, I thought it redundant to include #5: I DO belong to BCWF, AND I ALSO belong to DU, Wild Sheep, TU, NFA, etc etc.
I could have had 45 options, but I chose 4 for clarity.
The options you need are all there.
Get it? ;-)
Got it.
Good.

Thanks for participating!

And Mickey Finn, 6616, and Bridger, excellent posts guys.
Bridger really got me thinking about how much work it is to keep it al gong.
Does BCWF have a monthly contribution option? If passionate members gave even 5 bucks a month to support hunting and fishing, that's 60 bucks a year. If even a thrid of the membership did that, it's an extra $600,000 clams to fight for our right to party, and a very small sacrifice on a per-person basis, that will more than pay back over time.

[ElkMasterC]

And PGK, don't you think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one?
Not to pick on you specifically, cuz we agree on a lot, but if you don't like what the Conservatives are doing, do you walk away and let the Greenies take power? Oh, and leave your guns at the door, someone will be along to pick those up shortly.
Isn't an imperfect voice better than none at all?

[Gateholio]

Actually no, that's not true. Because when I brought my concerns to several members, including past and current presidents, I was told that my concerns were not valid and the BCWF would advocate for the death of wild steelhead because they wanted to. The vast majority of members do not even look at the issues, they just blindly throw their support behind something they don't really know anything about.

If your concerns are in fact not valid, then why would they support your views?

I see this quite a bit in organizations.

Member A is convinced that the true and right course of action is option X. Some of the other members agree. The rest don't agree...

Member A now feels that the organization is a bad one, over a single issue.

I'm guilty of it myself- I got pissed of at DU for being wishy washy about the gun registry, not wanting to recognize where the DU roots are...So, I made a point of writing a letter to the DU executive about it, and didn't buy any of their raffle tickets for a while.:smile:

I don't know much about steelhead in Region 6, but I know it's just one issue, and doesn't define the BCWF as a whole.

[PGK]

And PGK, don't you think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater on this one?
Not to pick on you specifically, cuz we agree on a lot, but if you don't like what the Conservatives are doing, do you walk away and let the Greenies take power? Oh, and leave your guns at the door, someone will be along to pick those up shortly.
Isn't an imperfect voice better than none at all?

The difference is that I disagree with most hunters on a lot of things. That's just how I am. To me, in this situation, the decision is black and white. You advocate for dead steelhead, I do not support you. Period.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

[quote=orion;420572]

This and other fisheries issues (ie. lack of support for flyfish only/C&R lakes) make me think that PGK's suggestion that BCWF focus on hunting issues and leave the fisheries to other user organizations is a good one.

quote]

Lack of support for these two issues by the BCWF does not surprize me as it's their mandate not to exclude people from enjoying hunting and fishing in this province. Exclusionary regulations are frowned upon...and for good reason.

Sound familiar????

SSS

[PGK]

If your concerns are in fact not valid, then why would they support your views?

I see this quite a bit in organizations.

Member A is convinced that the true and right course of action is option X. Some of the other members agree. The rest don't agree...

Member A now feels that the organization is a bad one, over a single issue.

I'm guilty of it myself- I got pissed of at DU for being wishy washy about the gun registry, not wanting to recognize where the DU roots are...So, I made a point of writing a letter to the DU executive about it, and didn't buy any of their raffle tickets for a while.:smile:

I don't know much about steelhead in Region 6, but I know it's just one issue, and doesn't define the BCWF as a whole.

That's your opinion. I don't like it. 'Wishy washy' about the gun registry? OMG! The gun registry! They are going to take our gunzzz!!! No, they're not. We're talking about the loss of a species here, not your gun collection.

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

[ElkMasterC]

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

Anddddd the gloves are off!

[6616]

Actually no, that's not true. Because when I brought my concerns to several members, including past and current presidents, I was told that my concerns were not valid and the BCWF would advocate for the death of wild steelhead because they wanted to. The vast majority of members do not even look at the issues, they just blindly throw their support behind something they don't really know anything about.

All BCWF policies, positions, and directions are established, revised, or revolked as the case may be, by majority vote at convention by the member delegates. This is the only avenue available to members, committee chairs, or even the board to change or make policy. Even the President cannot make or change BCWF polcies, only the members.

[PGK]

All BCWF policies, positions, and directions are established, revised, or revolked as the case may be, by majority vote at convention by the member delegates. This is the only avenue available to members, committee chairs, or even the board to change or make policy. Even the President cannot make or change BCWF polcies, only the members.

I'm aware of how it works, I've been a junior delegate and a club delegate at different times. Being pissed on for disagreeing with the old farts is not something I wish to endure, nor is associating with the BCWF good for my professional career, so I have stepped away from them. Until the time that all the members of the old boys club die out and a new, more thoughtful, proactive and adapative school of thinking is adopted, I will not participate in any way with the BCWF!

PGK out!

[Freshtracks]

I'd like to thank ElkMasterC for posting this thread.

IMHO ... every HBC member here should truly sit down and re-evaluate what their privlege to hunt and angle in this province really means to them and decide when their willing to step up to the plate to some degree.

I think SSS said it best.

Yet I can concur with PGK's decision ... but on that double edged sword ... how many of us feel a mute point will embrace what we all have in common.

My Kudo's go out to Mickey Finn, 6616 and anyone else that perseveres by sitting on the board of any hunting/fishing organization.

BCWF ... if you aren't with them now, you should be. If you disagree with them, then you should find a way to express your view ... if it is for the greater of the whole.

[beastman]

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.
true statement

[ultramagbob]

I hate to say it but I do agree with PGK.Its the old fart mentallity that is holding alot of these groups back

[Skeena Hunter 1]

That's your opinion. I don't like it. 'Wishy washy' about the gun registry? OMG! The gun registry! They are going to take our gunzzz!!! No, they're not. We're talking about the loss of a species here, not your gun collection.

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

This may just be the most ignorant comment ever made on this forum(fisheries issue). How old are you...2? I would ask you, who is qualified to speak to these issues, someone who agrees with YOU? look at all the other fishing orgs out there in BC, they are lucky if they can scrape a couple dozen people together....ah forget it, I have no pablum that you will like.

[Freshtracks]

true statement

Beastman .... ever heard of Bill Otway?

Sorry gents false on both accounts.

[Gateholio]

]
That's your opinion. I don't like it. 'Wishy washy' about the gun registry? OMG! The gun registry! They are going to take our gunzzz!!! No, they're not. We're talking about the loss of a species here, not your gun collection.

You were probably too young and don't remember the controversy. Ducks Unlimited turned thier backs on hunters when asked to take a position on something incredibly important to much of thier membership base.... They later relented IIRC.

The point is twofold- 1)No group is perfect 2) Members can get hung up on a single issue and condemn an organization as a whole, over the one issue.




The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

What makes you qualified to judge?:?:

[beastman]

Beastman .... ever heard of Bill Otway?

Sorry gents false on both accounts.
Who doesnt know who bill otway is.
Still doesnt change the fact that he supports a kill fishery on wild run steelhead,with that being said anyone who supports such a cause is not thinking for the future of the fish or the angler.

[Gateholio]

I'm aware of how it works, I've been a junior delegate and a club delegate at different times. Being pissed on for disagreeing with the old farts is not something I wish to endure, nor is associating with the BCWF good for my professional career, so I have stepped away from them. Until the time that all the members of the old boys club die out and a new, more thoughtful, proactive and adapative school of thinking is adopted, I will not participate in any way with the BCWF!

PGK out!


I hate to say it but I do agree with PGK.Its the old fart mentallity that is holding alot of these groups back

Time for some new, younger guys to step up...Any volunteers?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Like wildlife policies.....doesn't Victoria make the final decisions with the fishing regs like the hunting regs??

If there truely is a conservation concern over wild Steelies in Reg 6 then their bios should be able to stave off any proposals from "us unqualifed types"???

What's the real deal???....of course staying within the thread subject.

SSS

[ultramagbob]

Time for some new, younger guys to step up...Any volunteers?

The only wildlife group I'd donate my time to pissed me off by hiring a poacher to speak at the annual convention.

[Freshtracks]

I hate to say it but I do agree with PGK.Its the old fart mentallity that is holding alot of these groups back

Sadly ... although I'm not sure how prevelant it is now ... but you are somewhat correct.

But a mere stumbling block. Allot of them 'old farts' saved some of what we enjoy today.

I'm sure some here can relate to their grandfather/uncle and/or dad bringing them up to enjoy hunting and fishing ... then finding they've changed/evolved from some of what was taught to them. Then when in their company resolved these new differences.

Don't let politics ... the evil of every organization, refrain one from taking PGK's easy road. It's a bitter taste, that's hard to live with.

[Freshtracks]

Who doesnt know who bill otway is.
Still doesnt change the fact that he supports a kill fishery on wild run steelhead,with that being said anyone who supports such a cause is not thinking for the future of the fish or the angler.

I merely corrected PGK and your statement. His name being the mostly widely known that I used.

BTW ... it wouldn't be the first time Bill and I disagreed. So I should take the highroad? LOL!!

[PGK]

Like wildlife policies.....doesn't Victoria make the final decisions with the fishing regs like the hunting regs??

If there truely is a conservation concern over wild Steelies in Reg 6 then their bios should be able to stave off any proposals from "us unqualifed types"???

What's the real deal???....of course staying within the thread subject.

SSS

Since you asked nicely

Yes. As with all decisions, the final call is made in Victoria. The regional bios understand the issues involved with this fishery of course, and really, the BCWF has little to no validity with the fisheries branch. Thank God!

A funny example of this is the Thompson River. The Thompson is the only threatened steelhead river in the province that is still a bait fishery. Why, you might ask? Because the regional biologist loves to sling roe at Thompson steelhead!!

:shock:

[Freshtracks]

Like wildlife policies.....doesn't Victoria make the final decisions with the fishing regs like the hunting regs??

If there truely is a conservation concern over wild Steelies in Reg 6 then their bios should be able to stave off any proposals from "us unqualifed types"???

What's the real deal???....of course staying within the thread subject.

SSS

I believe SSS ... that ElkMasterC's thread was

1) A census to see just how many belong and/or support an organization that advocates for us. Using the #'s from here of 86,000 licensed BC res hunters vs 12,000 BCWF direct and/or associated members shows how weak the support is when our voice is to advocated for.

2) To stimulate the discussion of where WE as hunters/anglers need growth.

[Gateholio]

The only wildlife group I'd donate my time to pissed me off by hiring a poacher to speak at the annual convention.

Once again, a single issue, defining an entire organization...:smile:

[gamehunter6o]

I hate to say it but I do agree with PGK.Its the old fart mentallity that is holding alot of these groups back

This is identical to problems that plague the NZ hunting scene and do the anti hunters love it.
Trying to unite hunters under one grouping is like herding eels, but harder.

[Freshtracks]

Since you asked nicely

Yes. As with all decisions, the final call is made in Victoria. The regional bios
understand the issues involved with this fishery of course, and really, the BCWF has little to no validity with the fisheries branch. Thank God!

A funny example of this is the Thompson River. The Thompson is the only threatened steelhead river in the province that is still a bait fishery. Why, you might ask? Because the regional biologist loves to sling roe at Thompson steelhead!!

:shock:

Another good point PGK


Some discussion from another site:

http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=13348

My view:

http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=13348&st=40&start=40

But for arguements sake .... eg: if the bio's in Victoria were to regulate you to 1 moose or 1 muley buck or? as of this year, only by LEH. Who do you turn to, for voicing a disagreement? :redface:

[Mr. Dean]

I like having the option of being able to catch, kill and eat fish.



It's the 'natural' thing to do and yes, it SHOULD be protected.

[Micky Finn]

I belong to the BCWF (Either directly, or through my Gun Club) http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 170 60.50%
I don't belong to the BCWF, but I do belong to other pro-shooting/hunting groups. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 26 9.25%
I don't belong to any groups, and I have no intention of joining. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif 37 13.17%
I don't presently belong to any groups, but I plan to join the BCWF or others soon! http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar5-r.gif 48 17.08%

Voters: 281. You have already voted on this poll

I would like to thank the 86.8% of you who are members in some group that actively works to defend our rights. I am rather surprised that there are 37 people who are members here that would not join in any group with that as its stated purpose.

Each to their own.

Quote from PGK

That's your opinion. I don't like it. 'Wishy washy' about the gun registry? OMG! The gun registry! They are going to take our guns!!! No, they're not. We're talking about the loss of a species here, not your gun collection.

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

PGK if you have read my earlier post you will know my BCWF involvement. I support the HARVEST of wild steelhead in the Skeena system because all the data I've seen shows it to be sustainable.

If you have some data to show that its not, I challenge you to change my mind. Believe it or not, it is not and never has been closed. You can either send me a PM, and I'll send you my contact information. Or with a little work you should be able to find on your own.

Hint: http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/ (http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/)

[Freshtracks]

This is identical to problems that plague the NZ hunting scene and do the anti hunters love it.
Trying to unite hunters under one grouping is like herding eels, but harder.

Exactly ... but also politicians.

So with respect to ElkMasterC's thread,

PGK and all other doubters .... lets hear who you feel could/should be the ONE organization that with be there for you, your voice, when it comes to keeping hunting and angling privileges in BC?

[ElkMasterC]

Exactly ... but also politicians.

So with respect to ElkMasterC's thread,

PGK and all other doubters .... lets hear who you feel could/should be the ONE organization that with be there for you, your voice, when it comes to keeping hunting and angling privileges in BC?

Have at 'er boys.
It's why I kicked the beehive in the first place.
(Read post #1 again, FT)

[6616]

I don't know where this 12,000 members comes from, the BCWF actually has close to 25,000 members in 133 affiliated clubs and about 5000 direct members, for a total of somewhere in the vicinity of 30,000 members.

Secondly, the comments on the old farts and "good ole boys club", are very interesting. Seems to me this is the very reason I got involved with the BCWF many years ago. Since then I've learned that the good ole boys club never really goes away, it just keeps changing personnel and evolving as the active working members get older and phase out, and of course the GOB's club continues to get criticized by those who are unwilling to make the effort or who are impatient and feel that things never move fast enough.

I can tell you one thing, the $100.00 per year that Bridger speaks about would make a huge difference, but even more welcome to some of us old farts would be some new young blood to get involved and start phasing us old farts out, no one would welcome that more then us, do you really think we still want to be doing this when we're in our '70's instead of relaxing and spending time with our grandkids..?

Goatguy is a prime example of what you young bucks can accomplish if you really want to, but there doesn't seem to be many Goatguys around these days ,,,,,, is Goatguy going to be left there standing alone when Mickey Finn, Bridger, myself, etc are gone...or are PGK and some of the other bright educated young guys going to step up to the plate and stand alongside him in the fight to protect fish and wildlife, habitat, and hunters/anglers rights...???????

[Freshtracks]

thnx for the #'s correction 6616, I lazily quoted what I read in this post.:redface:

1/3 is still pretty bleak.

When I use to ask others (hunters/anglers), a time back, why don't you belong directly and/or become affiliated through a club, with the BCWF? The response 8 out of 10 was ... What do I get (as in some material item?) from it? Made me shake my head. Then you could always count on them being the first to gripe when something arose.

What does the BCWF do?

One that I was effected greatly by:

Past directors like Jack Trew, who was one of the main proponents that everyone can thank for allowing hunting to continue in the Fraser Valley today.

[6616]

One that I was effected greatly by:

Past directors like Jack Trew, who was one of the main proponents that everyone can thank for allowing hunting to continue in the Fraser Valley today.

Jack Trew, like his old cohorts Bill Otway, Bob Pederson, Frank Shannon, Art Downs, Lee Straight, Ted Barsby, Ed Mankelow, Graham Kenyon, etc, was one of the true mosern-era pioneers of fish and wildlife conservation in BC. He was a great supporter of the BCWF and usually belonged to at least half a dozen clubs at the same time. He believed in the BCWF for the same reason many of us do, because it's probably the only viable option available to make meaningful impacts in BC.

[Fisher-Dude]

The BCWF should not concern itself with fisheries issues. They do not have ANYONE in their executive, or membership for that matter, who is qualified to speak to these issues.

Tinney, the BCWF Region 8 Fisheries Chair has probably forgotten more about fish than you will EVER know. The guy works tirelessly for fish and fish habitat. He's been involved in hundreds of projects, both fresh and salt water, for many years. He can speak to fish issues on my behalf ANYTIME.

One thing I know for certain, is that he'd NEVER use fin fish for bait for ling like someone else we all know that proclaims himself a Defender of Wild Steelhead. :smile:

[bushguy]

One thing I know for certain, is that he'd NEVER use fin fish for bait for ling like someone else we all know that prclaims himself a Defender of Wild Steelhead. :smile:[/quote]


ouch

[Onesock]

I am a BCWF member through my local club. As most know I have some issues with the BCWF policies. That said, I would urge all to become BCWF members. If we all agreed on everything it would be a shitty world. We are all hunters and that is who the BCWF speaks for, hunters in general. Let us persue our fetishes through other avenues. Join the BCWF and support our hard working volunteers. Thanks to the BCWF from me.

[ElkMasterC]

OK, so no bites so far. As per my original post, and Onesock's follow up.
If you DON'T like the BCWF, is there a viable alternative?

TWO choices: ONE for BC residents, one national, or International?

I might be wrong, as we all are from time to time (except Huntwriter, naturally), but I would Join the BCWF provincially, and the NFA nationally.
Any takers?

(But damn...I love fair Chase Magazine..lol)

[GoatGuy]

This and other fisheries issues (ie. lack of support for flyfish only/C&R lakes) make me think that PGK's suggestion that BCWF focus on hunting issues and leave the fisheries to other user organizations is a good one.

This is funny, I get the opportunity to fish with one of the best fly-fishermen in the province probably across NA from time to time.

We get to talking (mostly laughing) about hunters and anglers. It's funny he says fly-fishermen are just like some of the hunters. He says the guys in fly-fishing clubs think they're going to change the world by taking a kid out chronomide fishing on trophy lake. They honestly believe they think that's where the future of fishing is. Kid spends the day with a 20 ft leader caught in their hair - sounds like fun.

They couldn't be more wrong. Kids want to go out catch and kill fish. They want to use a worm and a bobber or spin cast. Most adults don't grow out of that and so you need to have opportunities and lots of them for those people.


This guy doesn't look down his nose on bait fisherman or catch and kill guys.

He realizes his 'need' is only a small fraction of the big picture and that the majority of anglers come first.

He deals with conservation not some perverse personal need to exclude other users.

Guess that comes with experience, and maybe a bit of self-confidence in one's abilities, who knows?

[FlyingHigh]

i'm not a member of anything yet, but i plan to join the BCWF, CSSA and IDPA.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

This is funny, I get the opportunity to fish with one of the best fly-fishermen in the province probably across NA from time to time.

We get to talking (mostly laughing) about hunters and anglers. It's funny he says fly-fishermen are just like some of the hunters. He says the guys in fly-fishing clubs think they're going to change the world by taking a kid out chronomide fishing on trophy lake. They honestly believe they think that's where the future of fishing is. Kid spends the day with a 20 ft leader caught in their hair - sounds like fun.

They couldn't be more wrong. Kids want to go out catch and kill fish. They want to use a worm and a bobber or spin cast. Most adults don't grow out of that and so you need to have opportunities and lots of them for those people.


This guy doesn't look down his nose on bait fisherman or catch and kill guys.

He realizes his 'need' is only a small fraction of the big picture and that the majority of anglers come first.

He deals with conservation not some perverse personal need to exclude other users.

Guess that comes with experience, and maybe a bit of self-confidence in one's abilities, who knows?

This is bang on!! Imposing restrictions and certain ethical standards under the guise of conservation will be the downfall of both hunting and fishing.

[huntwriter]

I belong to about ten organizations here in Canada and the USA. Some are conservation and others are political pro-hunting organizations.

[huntwriter]

This is funny, I get the opportunity to fish with one of the best fly-fishermen in the province probably across NA from time to time.

We get to talking (mostly laughing) about hunters and anglers. It's funny he says fly-fishermen are just like some of the hunters. He says the guys in fly-fishing clubs think they're going to change the world by taking a kid out chronomide fishing on trophy lake. They honestly believe they think that's where the future of fishing is. Kid spends the day with a 20 ft leader caught in their hair - sounds like fun.

They couldn't be more wrong. Kids want to go out catch and kill fish. They want to use a worm and a bobber or spin cast. Most adults don't grow out of that and so you need to have opportunities and lots of them for those people.


This guy doesn't look down his nose on bait fisherman or catch and kill guys.

He realizes his 'need' is only a small fraction of the big picture and that the majority of anglers come first.

He deals with conservation not some perverse personal need to exclude other users.

Guess that comes with experience, and maybe a bit of self-confidence in one's abilities, who knows?

That’s exactly how it should be, but unfortunately we have “elitists” in both the hunting and fishing camp.

[GoatGuy]

A funny example of this is the Thompson River. The Thompson is the only threatened steelhead river in the province that is still a bait fishery. Why, you might ask? Because the regional biologist loves to sling roe at Thompson steelhead!! :shock:

If you think bait fishing is the problem down there you should come down and spend some time on the river.

Watch all the noodlers who spend 20+ minutes tiring the fish right out bring it in belly up and then holding them out of the water for minutes for hero shots.

It's really unbelievable to watch.

Might as well bonk them on the spot.

[Bowtime]

Just renewed ours the other day (my girlfriend and I). have been a member for last 10 years.

[Bowtime]

If you think bait fishing is the problem down there you should come down and spend some time on the river.

Watch all the noodlers who spend 20+ minutes tiring the fish right out bring it in belly up and then holding them out of the water for minutes for hero shots.

It's really unbelievable to watch.

Might as well bonk them on the spot.


I could not agree with you more.
I am not against catch and release but I'm strongly opinionated about people who catch and release and treat them in such a way. It is really unbelievable to watch. I don't go out much anymore because of this.
I'm not saying they are all like that but most of them are!!
Try running around a track for twenty minutes then stick your head in a bucket of water for several more. Let me know how you make out.
This might be how one of those steelhead feel.

[ElkMasterC]

Seems guys are more excited about their fishing opportunities than the hunting ones.
Or are fisherfolk just naturally more vocal?
;-)

[Will]

This thread smells fishy...........:neutral:

[GoatGuy]

Seems guys are more excited about their fishing opportunities than the hunting ones.
Or are fisherfolk just naturally more vocal?
;-)

Fishermen discovered chronomides and now everybody's just like the guy on A River Runs through it.

[6616]

It was a great thread EMC before it turned fishy. It did show most hunters still believe in the BCWF.

[ElkMasterC]

If only people were as passionate about sharing one voice as they are about looking at pictures of chicks.. *sigh*


(Curse you Mr Dean! Cursssseeee youuuuu!)

[aggiehunter]

The poll is flawed, inflammatory and consists of leading questions, also included is ,chucking it out the window research with snowball sampling.

[Mr. Dean]

If only people were as passionate about sharing one voice as they are about looking at pictures of chicks.. *sigh*


(Curse you Mr Dean! Cursssseeee youuuuu!)


Hey.

wazuuup? :tongue:

[Mr. Dean]

Fishermen discovered chronomides and now everybody's just like the guy on A River Runs through it.

Or taken on the 'tude of WTF, and dropped out. :roll:


I'm a perfect example of this. I betchya that it's been 15yrs since I had an annual fresh water license.... The regs pretty much forced me out.


Shitty if that happens with hunting.

[huntwriter]

The poll is flawed, inflammatory and consists of leading questions, also included is ,chucking it out the window research with snowball sampling.

What's inflammatory about this poll? :roll:

[PGK]

Or taken on the 'tude of WTF, and dropped out. :roll:


I'm a perfect example of this. I betchya that it's been 15yrs since I had an annual fresh water license.... The regs pretty much forced me out.


Shitty if that happens with hunting.

*HIJACK*

Wait, why did you quit fishing?

[willy442]

The BCWF has 23 committees dealing with a multitude of land use issues, involved with land use planning processes, with industrial and commercial impacts on fish, wildlife, and habitat,,,, inland fisheries, saltwater fisheries, firearms, wildlife, conservation, etc, all dealing with issues to protect BC citizens rights to hunt and fish, staffed with over 200 volunteer members, all working to protect the rights of BC resident hunters and outdoorsmen.

Do you really think the Sheep Foundation, DU, SCI, RMEF, etc, are going to do that, are they going to be in Victoria daily beating on the doors of politicians and high level bueaurocrats advocating on behalf of BC resident hunters? Not likely when their members are mostly non-canadians who need a guide to hunt in BC,,, or will they be advocating on behalf of the guide-outfitters who provide the hunting oppoprtunities in BC for the bulk of their members (if they can even figure out where Victoria is)?

Do you think foreign or American based organizations like the SCI or the Sheep Foundation will be fighting for resident allocation or resident priority over and above non-resident allocations, etc...???

These are all good organizations from a conservation viewpoint, but do they really give a rats ass about a lowly deer hunter from Salmon Arm or Penticton who only wants to shoot a meat buck, do you think they really give a rats ass about any BC resident hunters at all?

6616;

The future of hunting stretches far outside the BCWF. Hunting and it's future is a global issue and the organizations you speak of in this post are the ones with the big bucks and the international membership to assist in the fight for it,s future. Granted the BCWF represents the BC resident and is important in that aspect, but don,t say these other clubs don,t give a rats ass about any hunter, because hunting is what they are about. In the not to distant future it is going to take the membership of every hunting organization world wide to insure we can maintain the freedom of owning firearms and the opportunity to use them.

It,s very unfortunate that much of the membership of the federation cannot see past the end of thier nose on many hunting issue's. The existing good ole boy's club as PG puts it, is real and always has been, it usually sets the tone on all issue's. Much of the time behind closed doors and under the caption of confidential. In my opinion this has held the Federation back in it's lobbying to be the sole representative of the BC resident hunter and its membership drives.

In one of your other posts, you mention that the future of hunting lies in the hands of the young guy's. I agree, todays young hunters are the ones who will shape the future of hunting. However if they remain thinking and hung up only on the who gets what arguement, it is a sorry future for hunting in BC.

[Johnnybear]

Alllllright, who are ya? I mean your real ID.

I can look up your ISP, so fess up.

If it's not a Troll, and for real, please read my opening statement, and try to comprehend it.
IF it's a troll, PM me.
Don't make the same mistake Fisher Dude did. You've seen his tagline. He has to wear that for 3 years less a day now.

Kinda weird but their gone fella. Don't freak out or anything:lol:.

[ElkMasterC]

You have to nip these things in the bud, Johnny Bear

And I never freak out.
I kid a lot tho. ;-)

[Johnnybear]

You have to nip these things in the bud, Johnny Bear

And I never freak out.
I kid a lot tho. ;-)

I still think your freakin out:D.

[ElkMasterC]

I think you're creepin' me out by stalkin' me on the "Freakin out" idea.

Stop it, Dude...you're freakin me out.

[Johnnybear]

I think you're creepin' me out by stalkin' me on the "Freakin out" idea.

Stop it, Dude...you're freakin me out.

***Hijack*** (your own thread):lol:.

Let's get back to BCWF shall we:razz:.

[one-shot-wonder]

In one of your other posts, you mention that the future of hunting lies in the hands of the young guy's. I agree, todays young hunters are the ones who will shape the future of hunting. However if they remain thinking and hung up only on the who gets what arguement, it is a sorry future for hunting in BC.

Willy,

What do you mean by 'who gets what argument'?

The way I see it is if 'young hunters' fight for allocations to resources they are entitiled too, being residents of their province. That it will be critical to the future of hunting here in BC or wherever one lives. It is difficult to hunt when there is not much opportunity. If the trend continues as it has the past decade then the outcome of the future of hunting doesn't look good.

I feel the BCWF has done well to try and make it a priority for BC residents to maintain opportunity when doors are being closed it seems every year.

[aggiehunter]

MisterElk, Get a grip...lighten up. These were quotes from other responses to surveys done by someone representing other organizations. As far as who I am...irrelevant!!! Look up whatever ya' want Sherlock! Now as for that prescription of yours...

[6616]

Many of those big international oganizations support and initiate a substantial and critical amount of conservation work. Lots of WSF, DU and RMEF money is made in BC and lots of it has went into "on the ground" projects in BC.

Also, I agree, the SCI is the strongest voice globally advocating for hunting, but I don't think that in any way, shape, or form, means we don't need an advocacy group (BCWF) or conservation groups (WSSOBC) in BC.

It also boils down to the fact that SCI, WSF, etc, cannot hope to reach their global or north American goals and objectives if residents in all states and provinces don't "look after their own" as well.

I can't see SCI ever placing representatives on local land use stakeholder panels in BC, placing reps on hunting and fishing advisory boards and committees in all regions of BC, meeting with government almost weekly looking after the small details surrounding hunting and fishing in BC, or maintaining the connectivity and union between 133 rod and gun clubs in BC.

All these organizations have a specific niche to fill, but to BC resident hunters and anglers the BCWF is probably the most important.

[Mr. Dean]

All these organizations have a specific niche to fill, but to BC resident hunters and anglers the BCWF is probably the most important.

(clap clap clap). Well said.

[ElkMasterC]

MisterElk, Get a grip...lighten up.

Holy crap, I was kidding, guys......
Hence the 'trolling' reference.......never mind, back to the thread...no more foolin for meeeee . :biggrin:

[ElkMasterC]

So what choice is there on the national level?

NFA.....others?

[6616]

So what choice is there on the national level?

NFA.....others?

Canadian Wildlife Federation?

[bighornbob]

Time for some new, younger guys to step up...Any volunteers?

Thats the problem in most organizations that are run by the "old farts". Most of the younger guys dont get involved but are the first ones to bitch about. When asked if they want to help out there are always excuses why they cant. So the old farts make the decision and the young guys bitch about it.

BHB

[Onesock]

Actually with the smart-ass response's from GG I don't know how many hunters will be involved with the BCWF if he is the future of it. Listening to the members may get more hunters involved!

[GoatGuy]

MisterElk, Get a grip...lighten up. These were quotes from other responses to surveys done by someone representing other organizations. As far as who I am...irrelevant!!! Look up whatever ya' want Sherlock! Now as for that prescription of yours...

Elk,

Aggie's old handle on here is Rainwater, before he deleted his profile. You can look it up.

[GoatGuy]

6616;

The future of hunting stretches far outside the BCWF. Hunting and it's future is a global issue and the organizations you speak of in this post are the ones with the big bucks and the international membership to assist in the fight for it,s future. Granted the BCWF represents the BC resident and is important in that aspect, but don,t say these other clubs don,t give a rats ass about any hunter, because hunting is what they are about. In the not to distant future it is going to take the membership of every hunting organization world wide to insure we can maintain the freedom of owning firearms and the opportunity to use them.

Some organizations have done lots of good work others haven't done a thing.

The future is that past. Hunters and anglers across North America have been losing for the past 30 years and especially hunters in BC. The opportunity to hunt, fish and even access the outdoors has been marginalized since the 70s.




It,s very unfortunate that much of the membership of the federation cannot see past the end of thier nose on many hunting issue's.

What are these hunting issues you speak of?



The existing good ole boy's club as PG puts it, is real and always has been, it usually sets the tone on all issue's. Much of the time behind closed doors and under the caption of confidential. In my opinion this has held the Federation back in it's lobbying to be the sole representative of the BC resident hunter and its membership drives.


This is interesting. You must have been actively involved with the BCWF at some point. I'm assuming you've been in these closed door confidential meetings? What was it like? What's the decision making process like? Who makes decisions?


I've heard about this good old boys club as well. When I looked at the past conservation efforts in the Province generally I found a turnover in the BCWF every 3-4 years. Way back when there wasn't much else for 'conservation' groups to compare to. There are a couple of names that seem to come up regularly but at the executive and board level things seem to turnover.

It makes me wonder who these good ole boys are? If these are the same people that were around in the 70s and the 80s that would have made them young back then or dead today? Ghosts from the past?

[6616]

Thats the problem in most organizations that are run by the "old farts". Most of the younger guys dont get involved but are the first ones to bitch about. When asked if they want to help out there are always excuses why they cant. So the old farts make the decision and the young guys bitch about it.BHB

And eventually Alex, some young guys finally do get involved,,,, and then pretty soon they're old guys too,,,,, and the cycle keeps repeating itself,,,, so in the end there will always be a "good old boys club" in some people's minds. Maybe it would be more appropriatelly called the "guys that care the most club" because age itself actually has very little to do with it. It's really about who has been involved long enough, or active enough, in an organization to rise to a position where people begin to take notice of them, and then he/she starts attracting their share of the inherent criticism that exists in all organizations,,, human nature I suspect. I know some relativelly young guys that are accused of being part of the "GOB's Club".

[Fisher-Dude]

And pretty soon some young guys do finally get involved, and then pretty soon they're old guys too, and the cycle keeps repeating itself, so in the end there will always be a "good old boys club". Maybe it would be more appropriatelly called the "guys that care the most".

The good ol' boys that I've been involved with at the club level are great mentors. They know how to wedge their foot firmly in the politicians' doors, whom in the ministry is responsible for what, how to approach donors for F&G banquets, etc.

Without the guidance of these ol' farts, I'm afraid we'd all go to F&G meetings and discuss the latest X-box instead of the next fisheries project we want to do. I've learned tonnes about the "business" of running a club from the ol' farts, and they've welcomed my fresh approach on new initiatives. It's a win-win.

[6616]

The good ol' boys that I've been involved with at the club level are great mentors. They know how to wedge their foot firmly in the politicians' doors, whom in the ministry is responsible for what, how to approach donors for F&G banquets, etc.

Without the guidance of these ol' farts, I'm afraid we'd all go to F&G meetings and discuss the latest X-box instead of the next fisheries project we want to do. I've learned tonnes about the "business" of running a club from the ol' farts, and they've welcomed my fresh approach on new initiatives. It's a win-win.

Very true Pat,,,, and how many work parties or projects do these old farts not participate in, not many I'm guessing...!

We've all had our mentors, we were all greenhorns once, even us old guys. Even Teddy Roosevelt and Aldo Leopold had their mentors. Without mentoring there would never be any Valarius Geists, Bert Brinks or Ian McTaggert Cowans...!

[one-shot-wonder]

Thats the problem in most organizations that are run by the "old farts". Most of the younger guys dont get involved but are the first ones to bitch about. When asked if they want to help out there are always excuses why they cant. So the old farts make the decision and the young guys bitch about it.

BHB

The opposite is true of our club.......cant paint 'em all the same colour.

[ChrisL]

BCWF through POCO, and CSSA.

Chris.

[aggiehunter]

Goatguy, I remember guys like you in school...I smell a rat.

[GoatGuy]

Goatguy, I remember guys like you in school...I smell a rat.

School? I'm impressed. Did you have different names back then as well?

And don't you mean a 'bagman'?:lol:

[ElkMasterC]

Hey Clarke, I didn't know you did a similar poll a year ago.
Funny, your poll there were 73% + BCWF members then, as opposed to 57+% now.
If the polls are in the least bit accurate.......wtf?
Anyone have membership data over time from the BCWF?
This one has a broader sampling, so if it's accurate......

From Gates' Poll:
Feb 2008

View Poll Results:

Are you a BCWF member?

Yes, I am a member through my local club http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 83 52.53%
Yes, I am a direct member http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 33 20.89%
No, I am not http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif 42 26.58%
Voters: 158.

[ElkMasterC]

Elk,

Aggie's old handle on here is Rainwater, before he deleted his profile. You can look it up.


Thanks....doing some reading about Rainwater/MarbleHunter
Didn't know he was such a good buddy of Fisher-Dude's...lmao

Awwww, man, the Drama! *Wipes a tear away*

[Fisher-Dude]

Thanks....doing some reading about Rainwater/MarbleHunter
Didn't know he was such a good buddy of Fisher-Dude's...lmao

Awwww, man, the Drama! *Wipes a tear away*

Yeah my old buddy Rainy spewed a good story on here, then would run over to his TBBC forum and spew a different line. Ahh, those were the days EMC, you missed all the fun. His new Aggie handle keeps his story a bit more consistent knowing I will call him out on hypocracy. I'm such a Knob! :mrgreen::wink:

[ElkMasterC]

Yeah my old buddy Rainy spewed a good story on here, then would run over to his TBBC forum and spew a different line. Ahh, those were the days EMC, you missed all the fun. His new Aggie handle keeps his story a bit more consistent knowing I will call him out on hypocrisy. (sp)

He seems to like to stir the pot a little....



I'm such a Knob! :mrgreen::wink: Well, there was this onnnneeee timeee......lol ;-)

[aggiehunter]

I promise I'll bring ya' the lunch money tomorrow......

[Fisher-Dude]

I promise I'll bring ya' the lunch money tomorrow......

Tell your mom the price has gone up Ern!

[aggiehunter]

FisherDude, Well at least you got the point, pink shirt day was last week.

[one-shot-wonder]

FisherDude, Well at least you got the point, pink shirt day was last week.

Faggiehunter, sorry couldn't resist.:lol:

What did you vote for? Curious to know your stance on the subject at hand, without doing a bunch of research on you (like FD and ElkMC have,too much time on their hands) would you mind speaking towards the topic of this thread instead of just crying alligator tears all over your pink t-shirt after someone stole your lunch money and gave your mother a massage.......just trying to get this thing back on track.

[horshur]

Hey Clarke, I didn't know you did a similar poll a year ago.
Funny, your poll there were 73% + BCWF members then, as opposed to 57+% now.
If the polls are in the least bit accurate.......wtf?
Anyone have membership data over time from the BCWF?
This one has a broader sampling, so if it's accurate......

From Gates' Poll:
Feb 2008

View Poll Results:

Are you a BCWF member?

Yes, I am a member through my local club http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 83 52.53%
Yes, I am a direct member http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 33 20.89%
No, I am not http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif 42 26.58%
Voters: 158.


Maybe a PR problem???

[aggiehunter]

OSW, it won't be on the internet.

[ElkMasterC]

I dunno.....I would be interested to see what the membership figures over time have been, versus the overall hunter numbers, versus overall population, versus urban.vs.rural pops.
I know that sounds like a lot of crap, but I'm serious.
Where are we headed?

[MattW]

I'm a BCWF member and just joined Wild Sheep Society today. It's important to support these groups if we want to continue hunting. If you don't like the way they're doing things put together a coherent argument and state your case to them.

[Gateholio]

Hmm...
You asked us to delete your account Rainwater. If you wanted back, you could have just asked to reinstate Rainwater instead of getng a new account...

[Ambush]

It would seem that the BCWF is the recognized [at least by government] representative of BC's hunting and fishing community. And, as such, are the umbrella group that eveyone should belong to as a start. I will confess that I let my membership lapse several years ago, but every year I make a fair cash donation. Beats me why I don't renew my membership. I will remedy that soon.

After that general grouping we divide into sub groups according to our personal ambitions. And so we should also belong to whichever club represents our individual interests the best.

I am, in general, a hunter. It follows that I should join the BCWF.

I am, in particular, a bow hunter. So, then, I should join the UBBC.

The BCWF will lobby to see that my hunting opportunities, in general, will be protected and enhanced.

The UBBC will ensure that I can go hunting before AND after all you rifle hunters! HaHaHaHa, take that!! [ Just jokes guys, put the knives awayhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif]

If you fly fish, join that club also, etc., etc..

Without going into details, I can say from personal experience, that the executive of the BCWF does hear and act on individual concerns when it is for the community good.

[aggiehunter]

Gatehouse, Get over it, you have no clue who I am and never will. You can look up all the profiles and names you like and that fact still won't change. This is an INTERNET CHAT line. Stop taking yourself so seriously, I have. Have a good rest of the weekend.

[Gateholio]

Hey, i was just trying to do you a favour, if you were indeed Rainwater...:wink:

[ElkMasterC]

The BCWF will lobby to see that my hunting opportunities, in general, will be protected and enhanced.

The UBBC will ensure that I can go hunting before AND after all you rifle hunters! HaHaHaHa, take that!! [ Just jokes guys, put the knives awayhttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif]




LMAO, Nice, where do I sign?
Or should I ask Rainwater/MarbleHunter? lol

[dana]

I have been a member of the BCWF, RMEF and the Mule Deer Foundation over the years. I let most of my memberships go by the wayside when we had 2 kids in diapers. Funds were tight and went to other important things. I, just recently, got off my ass and signed up with the BCWF again. If you want to have change, you have to start with yourself. I don't see one particular org that is perfect, but the Fed seems to be the best all round choice. Even though I'm not a sheep guy, I am thinking about joining the Wild Sheep Society and probably will join the Mule Deer Foundation again, even though there currently is no BC chapters.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I have been a member of the BCWF, RMEF and the Mule Deer Foundation over the years. I let most of my memberships go by the wayside when we had 2 kids in diapers. Funds were tight and went to other important things. I, just recently, got off my ass and signed up with the BCWF again. If you want to have change, you have to start with yourself. I don't see one particular org that is perfect, but the Fed seems to be the best all round choice. Even though I'm not a sheep guy, I am thinking about joining the Wild Sheep Society and probably will join the Mule Deer Foundation again, even though there currently is no BC chapters.


Good to hear, Dana!!:smile:


SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

LMAO, Nice, where do I sign?
Or should I ask Rainwater/MarbleHunter? lol

Marblehunter? Is that why he always has his hands in his pockets and a smile on his face? :lol:

[one-shot-wonder]

OSW, it won't be on the internet.

So you will run your mouth about "this poll is flawed, inflammatory blah blah blah.....but you won't answer a simple question of mine, and contribute a proper response to this thread.

Never mind, I will let you get back to your little game of hide and seek.....

[aggiehunter]

OSW, Ok I'll point right to it so you can figure it out. I stole my posts about the survey being flawed,inflamatory and had snowball sampling from some of the first responses to the UBBC survey, Ok are you happy, I fessed up.

[one-shot-wonder]

Thanks for clarifying cranky.......I never knew the history, usually when there are threads pertaining to the UBBC or TBBC I disregard them as if they were "birthday greetings" or some of the other useless threads that this forum produces.

Anyways back to my question you haven't answered yet......any input to this thread?

[aggiehunter]

OSW, You don't acknowledge birthday greetings and you call me cranky., what the fuh! To bad you disagree with all the good conservation work and youth mentoring the TBBC, and all by themselves. If you like bowhunting you should NOT disregard the UBBC poll, seriously. The BCWF has done some great work in the past and hopefully the future too. The only advice I can give you or the BCWF is forget about the who and get on with the what.

[GoatGuy]

OSW, You don't acknowledge birthday greetings and you call me cranky., what the fuh! To bad you disagree with all the good conservation work and youth mentoring the TBBC, and all by themselves. If you like bowhunting you should NOT disregard the UBBC poll, seriously. The BCWF has done some great work in the past and hopefully the future too. The only advice I can give you or the BCWF is forget about the who and get on with the what.

There's only one way to do research and it isn't through the questions or the medium used. The questions are inflammatory and only look to identify 'solutions' instead of understanding problems.

At best it is unreliable, given the homogeneity of the sample, lack of ability to measure confidence, precision or statistical power. All of this without any kind of population estimate?

Don't be surprised when it gets treated as such.

Appreciate the effort, of that there's no doubt but the sampling and questions just won't fly. Would have been better off polling members of specific organizations (TBBC/UBBC) if you wanted something reliable or at least reflective of the organization(s).

What you have now is like asking 20 Americans about what the World thinks about the war in Iraq.

[aggiehunter]

Polls are done all the time that affect hundreds of thousands of people and only hundreds are asked. It's the feasibility of it. Once again focus on the outcome ,not who's doing it, please.

[ElkMasterC]

There's only one way to do research and it isn't through the questions or the medium used. The questions are inflammatory and only look to identify 'solutions' instead of understanding problems.

At best it is unreliable, given the homogeneity of the sample, lack of ability to measure confidence, precision or statistical power. All of this without any kind of population estimate?

Don't be surprised when it gets treated as such.

Appreciate the effort, of that there's no doubt but the sampling and questions just won't fly. Would have been better off polling members of specific organizations (TBBC/UBBC) if you wanted something reliable or at least reflective of the organization(s).

What you have now is like asking 20 Americans about what the World thinks about the war in Iraq.


Wow. How horribly skewed and subjective those statements were!
And you call yourself an Alchemist.

As I said at the outset, and have since repeated.... *sigh* here we go again...



I realize the results will be skewed, since I would think that people that DO belong would be more likely to vote. Also, I would think that people that frequent the site more are more likely to belong to a group (active) and thus, more likely to read this thread and vote.
Therefore, i realize it's not scientific, but perhaps it will give us a handle on roughly who belongs where.
Do you have a suggestion for other groups? I won't list them all, but who should we give one voice to?
Say, if you had to join ONE group as a BC Hunter, which would it be?

OK, that's 3 times now.

The purpose of this poll is to get a feel on people who have Internet access, and who belong to this site....who probably hunt, and who will partake in a poll. Does that narrow it down? Of course it does.
Further, it assumes people will be honest, and only vote from one IF if they happen to have several on this site.
Show me a poll that isn't in any way skewed, and I'll buy a Crossbow.
You are ENTIRELY missing the point that it was intended to arouse conversation, debate, passion, and hopefully, education.
And I think it succeeded very well.

You have a lot of great, informative posts, GG.
Keep it up in future.

[quackquackbang]

i like ducks unlimited!!!! lol

[ElkMasterC]

i like ducks unlimited!!!!

That comes as complete surprise.

[GoatGuy]

Polls are done all the time that affect hundreds of thousands of people and only hundreds are asked. It's the feasibility of it. Once again focus on the outcome ,not who's doing it, please.

Legitimate surveys are conducted by asking a certain segment of the population usually through a form of research design which includes a sampling plan. I'm sure you won't understand how sampling or statistical analysis works, so I won't bore you with the details.

What you're referring to is called snowball sampling. It isn't even a probability design so how you can relate that to 'polls' of people I'm not sure unless you're talking about something on macleans.ca. Out of all research designs it's the weakest and really only has extremely specific applications, like in a very, very small, easily targeted, segment of a population.

As well the questions are leading and inflammatory. Research and surveys aim to identify AND measure issues, not come up with questions which are solutions. From there you can infect change. You probably won't understand that either.

I'm not focusing on who's doing it. If anyone were to do it from wherever, I'd be giving them an earful. There are a couple organizations, even government agencies who have done surveys like this and they hit bin 13 really fast.

Like I said, it's great to see somebody doing something and I'm glad there is some action. It really is great to see! I'm sure Hermit's been working hard on this and that's great. Warms my cold black heart, it really does.

All I'll say for this is when you don't get the 'result' you want (action) from this please don't get frustrated about the government, MoE, F&W Branch, or whoever else you want to point fingers at. Be prepared for the reality of the situation.

[GoatGuy]

Wow. How horribly skewed and subjective those statements were!
And you call yourself an Alchemist.

As I said at the outset, and have since repeated.... *sigh* here we go again...



OK, that's 3 times now.

The purpose of this poll is to get a feel on people who have Internet access, and who belong to this site....who probably hunt, and who will partake in a poll. Does that narrow it down? Of course it does.
Further, it assumes people will be honest, and only vote from one IF if they happen to have several on this site.
Show me a poll that isn't in any way skewed, and I'll buy a Crossbow.
You are ENTIRELY missing the point that it was intended to arouse conversation, debate, passion, and hopefully, education.
And I think it succeeded very well.

You have a lot of great, informative posts, GG.
Keep it up in future.

That wasn't directed at your post, it was directed at Aggiehunter. The intent of the poll he's talking about is to send it off to the MoE. I've already heard enough about the internet polls that have been passed on to MoE like they're some kind of representative sample.

I'm sorry I should have been more clear. This has nothing to do with your poll. I understand your approach here and I think it's great.

I guess I've hijacked things. Sorry.

[ElkMasterC]

That wasn't directed at your post, it was directed at Aggiehunter. The intent of the poll he's talking about is to send it off to the MoE. I've already heard enough about the internet polls that have been passed on to MoE like they're some kind of representative sample.

I'm sorry I should have been more clear. This has nothing to do with your poll. I understand your approach here and I think it's great.

I guess I've hijacked things. Sorry.

If no offense was meant, then I assure you none was taken.

You have repeatedly suffered the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, and I admire you for digging in, and sticking to your guns.

Comparing Gatehouse's thread from a year ago to mine suggests a drop in membership. Suggests. Not scientific, I know.

It would be damn nice if we could all agree on something.....except those damn, dirty crossbows, of course.

Damn crossbows.

[ElkMasterC]

Oh, and I notice you haven't attacked Gatehouse's "Should Wolves Be Exterminated?" thread, when he clearly had an agenda, relative to the Killemall thread.
Prove me wrong, guys, prove me wrong.

[hunter1947]

I have never belonged to any gun club or groups over my hunting years.

[one-shot-wonder]

I have never belonged to any gun club or groups over my hunting years.

That's a lot of years by the sounds of it, well it's never too late to start!

If we all chose your direction I couldn't imagine what the state of hunting would be in right now in the province. I am sure glad a ton of baby boomers like yourself have chosen in the past and present to be a part of clubs and the BCWF.

I encourage you to change your trend of taking from the sport and start giving back, a future generation will thank you for it!

[aggiehunter]

Thanks for the explanation Goatguy. What is bin 13? I never said any of these polls were going to MOE, why would you suggest that? Are you sending them there? Still waiting for a reply from IPSOS on some stats and will let you know what they have to say. Now heres' something you might not understand..."tongue in cheek humour". You guys are still taking yourselves way too serious......way, way to serious.