Whats the deal

[Hemi]

I was picking up some stuff for my bow today and asked about arrows. Now for hunting purpose, actually all purpose cause you should stay with same weight when shooting correct. So what is better alluminum or carbon. I know carbon being lighter will fly faster. But the guy made apoint of mentioning breakage if the animal runs off and the carbon breaks off and splinters.. So what do most people shoot??

[todbartell]

Im not as knowledgable about archery as most guys but I was always under the impression that carbons are superior due to their lighter weight (more speed) and that they shoot more accurate over the life of the arrow than an aluminum because they will not bend out of straight

[Dirty]

New flash, aluminum shafts will bend and snap off as well. It is not like you are going to re-use an arrow after it has passed through an animal, what's the big deal?

[PGK]

Common dirty make sense. Alum will bend, carbon will break. ACC hybrids will bend and break. And why the hell wouldn't you re-use an arrow after slaying something with it?? I know guys who have killed six or seven deer with the same arrow.

The problem I and a lot of guys have run into is getting the proper spine in carbon arrows. I used to have some carbons that always shot a little to the left in my bow, no matter what I did. I sold them to Gus (member) and he reports smooth sailing. Go figure.
With alums I've never run into this problem. I can pick up basically any alum shaft and fling it into tight groups without much difficulty. I shoot aluminum. They're cheaper and they fly better.
That being said, the majority of bowhunters use carbons, because we're in a speed craze right now. Basically, it's like a magnum debate for bows. Faster is better! Everyone's going faster! Not really. How do the trad guys ever kill anything ;)

[Dirty]

Common dirty make sense. Alum will bend, carbon will break. ACC hybrids will bend and break. And why the hell wouldn't you re-use an arrow after slaying something with it?? I know guys who have killed six or seven deer with the same arrow.

The problem I and a lot of guys have run into is getting the proper spine in carbon arrows. I used to have some carbons that always shot a little to the left in my bow, no matter what I did. I sold them to Gus (member) and he reports smooth sailing. Go figure.
With alums I've never run into this problem. I can pick up basically any alum shaft and fling it into tight groups without much difficulty. I shoot aluminum. They're cheaper and they fly better.
That being said, the majority of bowhunters use carbons, because we're in a speed craze right now. Basically, it's like a magnum debate for bows. faster is better! Everyone's going faster! Not really. How do the trad guys ever kill anything ;)

Are you getting your metallurgy degree too? Aluminum will bend and break off just like a carbon. I shot a coyote with a crossbow once, with an aluminum bolt, it didn't pass through completely, the bolt bent and snapped off. When the shaft collapses, the aluminum can easily break apart.

[todbartell]

cant you somehow sort carbons and find what side of the shaft is the stiffest and fletch them accordingly? I sat in an archery bow setup workshop last week in Edmonton and recall something along those lines. There was a bathtub trick where the heavy side of the shaft will twirl down, and some other way to find out. Supposed to make the arrows more consistent

carry on

[Dirty]

cant you somehow sort carbons and find what side of the shaft is the stiffest and fletch them accordingly? I sat in an archery bow setup workshop last week in Edmonton and recall something along those lines. There was a bathtub trick where the heavy side of the shaft will twirl down, and some other way to find out. Supposed to make the arrows more consistent

carry on

Good point, it is like building a fishing rod, you can roll it and it will jump up where the spine is.

[Riverjet]

I think what Hemi is talking about is...when you shoot an animal with a carbon arrow and the arrow doesn't pass through. When/if it gets broken off inside the animal there will be carbon splinters getting into the meat. Correct Hemi?
Some people think carbon splinters getting into their meat isn't a good thing so they only use aluminum arrows for hunting.

[jessbennett]

carbon splinters are a problem if the arrow breaks off. just cut the meat and bone around where the arrow has broken off.

carbon arrows have alot of advantages. initially they may cost more, but they are a way more durable arrow in the long run. aluminum arrows just wont handle the same abuse as a carbon. the can be a bit lighter, thuss getting a better speed and trajectory.

[Hemi]

I think what Hemi is talking about is...when you shoot an animal with a carbon arrow and the arrow doesn't pass through. When/if it gets broken off inside the animal there will be carbon splinters getting into the meat. Correct Hemi?
Some people think carbon splinters getting into their meat isn't a good thing so they only use aluminum arrows for hunting.


Correct Riverjet, that was my concern yes carbons are more exspensive but in the end if they are better to hunt with then I am for it.. I will be hunting moose and elk, so with there size thrashing through the bush after a shot can mangle a arrow pretty quick and I just didn't want to be risking the meat..

[Clint_S]

I tried some carbons but had a heck of time trying to find a spine that worked for my bow. The recommended spines were worthless plus I had to add weight to the shaft to get it what I consider a hunting weight shaft. This was for a recurve mind you. With a compound you can achieve a proper amount of KE with a lighter arrow.
I thought the carbons might be tougher for stump shooting/target practice etc. but found they weren't or at least not enough to warrant paying the higher price.

[Big Lew]

Used to shoot aluminum shafts but was always having to check and straighten them, even when target shooting. You can bent them even when pulling them out of targets. Went with good quality carbons within reccomended spine tolerences and now can re-use same shafts over and over while using them for targets, stump plunking, and hunting, without any worries. Have had only a couple break from animals falling on them, or hitting rocks while plunking. As a bonus, they fly faster, penetrate further, and are just as accurate for me.

[Vader]

Back in the 80's there was a document released, actually leaked from a US military fire fighting unit, about the perils of carbon fibre. It was reported that it was/is actually 400 x's more toxic than asbestos. It's easier to manage.. a paper suit and dust mask used for painting will keep the fibers from entering through the skin or lungs.
Flexing a cracked shaft will put miniscule fibers into the air which can easily be inhaled. Handling a broken shaft may allow fibers to enter through the skin. Burning releases the carbon fiber from the binding agent into the air.
During the cutting of the shaft for proper length.. the manufacturer recommends the wearing of Eye protection and a DUST mask.. For obvious reasons. You should also wear gloves.
If the shaft does break.. remove more meat than what you are comfortable with. When in doubt...cut it out...

[Bowzone_Mikey]

cant you somehow sort carbons and find what side of the shaft is the stiffest and fletch them accordingly? I sat in an archery bow setup workshop last week in Edmonton and recall something along those lines. There was a bathtub trick where the heavy side of the shaft will twirl down, and some other way to find out. Supposed to make the arrows more consistent

carry on

yep ... get your self an arrow spinner and let er buck ... lower end carbons will have a heavy seam and stop heavy side down

[Bowzone_Mikey]

I used to shoot expensive alums (X-7s and X10s) ... I hated them ... the only advantage is they are easier to pull from 3D targets ... I shot cheaper alums xx75 etc..... I still hated them because the second the hit a bone they would bend a bit and be essientially useless ...
I now shoot mid range carbons for most everything (exception being long distance I like the ACCs as they seem to hold their energy better than either alums or Carbons) ... I think I have broken 2 arrows while hunting in 8 years ... one was a poor penitration and i watched the deer snap it off as it ran past a tree .... the other was a pass thru on an Elk and the elk in turn stepped on it .... Carbons I have seen bend to where they should break but do not ...

Their seems to alot of people that think all carbons are equal and all alums are equal .... for those that say they cannot a carbon to spine to their bow ... All I have to say is that they dont know how to read a spine chart or they have no idea what their bow is .... you can have a 70 pound bow .. but if you have really mild cams or a recurve at 28" you are not gonna spine properly with a 55-75 or a 340 spine arrow with a 100 gr head ..to spine properly you would need a 125 or 150 head ... you would do better with a 45-60 or a 400 series arrow ... that said if you have agressive cams or a 90 pound recurve at 28" a 340 or 55-75 series would do ya fine cut at 27.5 inches with a 100gr head.

if an arrow is too stiff it wont flex off the bow and it wont fly straight ... if its too weak it will flex like a noodle off your bow and fly like crap as well ...

[The Hermit]

Go Carbon! I like them cause the take a bootin and keep on shooting... they are either perfect or broken! I have taken to putting 1/4"nylon rope in carbon arrows to add some weight in my hunting arrows.

Talk to Onesock as I think he has a few dozen good carbons for a great price...

[greybark]

:wink: Hey Hemi , Fred Asbel has a study on different types of arrows and the shear off factor at the adapter when the the contact of one blade hits a bone (rib) and the resultant side force . Surprising me was the fact that wood ( PO Cedars) placed first and followed by alum and last were carbons . Even with extra long insert adapters there was no change in the pecking order . I apologize for not posting the report but suspect Coyote can .
Carbons are far sweeter to shoot but as Clint S says you must weight tha front end to get proper spine ( for Traditioal bows ) .
For 3-d ing I prefer carbons but switch to alum for hunting .
Cheers and good luck with your archery adventures ...

[tomahawk]

I was picking up some stuff for my bow today and asked about arrows. Now for hunting purpose, actually all purpose cause you should stay with same weight when shooting correct. So what is better alluminum or carbon. I know carbon being lighter will fly faster. But the guy made apoint of mentioning breakage if the animal runs off and the carbon breaks off and splinters.. So what do most people shoot??

Aluminum all the way.

[Bow Walker]

New flash, aluminium shafts will bend and snap off as well. It is not like you are going to re-use an arrow after it has passed through an animal, what's the big deal?
Dirty - you're right on both counts. Aluminium shafts will bend and/or break (almost always on pass throughs), and, who (in their right mind) would re-use an aluminium shaft without first checking it for straightness?!?

Carbon shafts don't give you grief like aluminium shafts do. Carbons are far and away much more flexible - and as has been stated, they're either broken (it does happen sometimes) or they're good to go....time after time after time after time.....



I used to shoot expensive alums (X-7s and X10s) ... I hated them ... the only advantage is they are easier to pull from 3D targets ... I shot cheaper alums xx75 etc..... I still hated them because the second the hit a bone they would bend a bit and be essientially useless ...
I now shoot mid range carbons for most everything (exception being long distance I like the ACCs as they seem to hold their energy better than either alums or Carbons) ... I think I have broken 2 arrows while hunting in 8 years ... one was a poor penitration and i watched the deer snap it off as it ran past a tree .... the other was a pass thru on an Elk and the elk in turn stepped on it .... Carbons I have seen bend to where they should break but do not ...

Their seems to alot of people that think all carbons are equal and all alums are equal .... for those that say they cannot a carbon to spine to their bow ... All I have to say is that they dont know how to read a spine chart or they have no idea what their bow is .... you can have a 70 pound bow .. but if you have really mild cams or a recurve at 28" you are not gonna spine properly with a 55-75 or a 340 spine arrow with a 100 gr head ..to spine properly you would need a 125 or 150 head ... you would do better with a 45-60 or a 400 series arrow ... that said if you have agressive cams or a 90 pound recurve at 28" a 340 or 55-75 series would do ya fine cut at 27.5 inches with a 100gr head.

if an arrow is too stiff it wont flex off the bow and it wont fly straight ... if its too weak it will flex like a noodle off your bow and fly like crap as well ...
Totally agree with Jesse on those points. Talk to a knowledgeable archery guy/girl at your local shop - hopefully they will measure your bow, measure you and come up with the proper carbon shaft that flies correctly.

I use carbons exclusively - for everything. Hunting, 3D, Target, etc. Carbons, period.

My draw length is just a tad over 28"....with my 3D bow, my shafts are spined too light. But. Because I use a rest that is mounted about 2" behind the berger hole, my light weight shafts are cut to 26 5/8", thus bringing the spine back to where it should be for my draw weight.

My Hunting shafts are of a similar length, but are of a stiffer spine because I want them packing a whallop when they get there. I custom build my own arrows for both hunting and 3D/target and am very happy with the results.

[Bigbear]

If you looking for a Heavy Carbon arrow, there is Lots out there as well. EG: Carbon express Rebel Hunter weight forward 60/75 are like 12 Gr per in:shock::smile:, GT 7595 are some thing like 9.5 an so on .

[Ron.C]

It's obvious by reading this thread that there are two schools of thought on this. If you do an internet search on carbon vs aluminum arrows, you'll see the same thing, over and over again.

Personally, I shoot carbon because I like the speed I gain and they have proven to be very durable. The price of a dozen carbon arrows like a Beman ICS 400 is not that much. But you can spend a whole lot more than that if you wish. Incidentally, I've used the same carbon arrow to shoot my last 3 deer "changed broadhead blades and tips of course".

There are benefits and drawbacks to both carbon and aluminum;

Some say that aliminum arrows can be straightened. I'm sure some guys can, I'm not one of them.

Some guys say carbon arrows are either broken or good to go? I disagree and have seen carbons " that appear good" that show a crazy wobble when put on a set of arrow rollers that I wouldn't think of shooting with a broadhead

A properly spined carbon arrow is lighter than aluminum, so you get a faster arrow with flatter trajectory

A properly spined aluminum arrow that is heavier than it's faster carbon counterpart with help your bow shoot quieter.

You can get both cheap aluminum arrows, and cheap carbon arrows

I've never had a carbon arrow splinter inside an animal

You really need to just pick one type and try it out. If you have and archery shop nearby, buy 3 properly spined carbon and 3 aluminum and do some stump shooting with a judo tip. You'll be able to figure out for yourself whats best for you and your setup.

[jessbennett]

i don't recommend stump shooting with aluminums. especially with a compund bow. with the higher speeds, and energy, the aluminum just cant handle it.

i would definately do as ron c suggests, and get 3 of each arrow spined for your set up and just start shooting. set up a target. see which set of 3 groups better, see which set shoots better out past 20 yds, past 30, etc. etc...... try them with broadheads, do whatever you have to do to make a decision that you are confident with. as a bowhunter, having confidence in your equipment is a huge thing. (for me anyways). i have to be 100% confident in the equipment im using. Its really a boost when you can say to yourself, "i tested these items for myself, and based on what i have found, this/these items worked best for me".

good luck on your "archery adventure". lol:smile:

[Bow Walker]

Carbon arrows are either good or broken. The key is to flex them - not gently, but seriously. Don't bend them double, just grasp each end and bend the shaft a good 3 - 4 inches.

Listen carefully while flexing the shaft. If you hear a noise a bit like Rice Krispies in milk while you're flexing the shaft - it's in the "nfg" category.

Don't use it unless you especially want carbon splinters in your hand(s) or in your game meat. There are some pretty gruesome pics floating around the internet of a guy's hand pierced with a shattered carbon shaft. Pretty messy.

[Riverjet]

Like this one!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/sledhed/Archery/arrow-in-hand.jpg

[sfire436]

Like this one!

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a359/sledhed/Archery/arrow-in-hand.jpg


:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:: shock::shock::shock: Is that you left hand RJ?

[jessbennett]

if i remember correctly that also happened to a shooter at the abbotsford indoor 3-d shoot a few years ago.:frown:

ick.....:shock:

[Evolution]

Ive been hunting/shooting with the Bemen carbons and have broke most of them while trying to pull them out of the stump or a root, I had a few that splintered at the nock. I recently finished up 2 dozen POC shafts. 12 of them for field points and 12 for broadheads. They are considerably slower than my carbons but even the field points are blowing right through my foam target @ 20 yards. My woods are all about 600gr where as my carbons are about 385-400 gr. The carbons generally only pentrate my foam target about 2" from 20 yards. The woods w/field points pass right through all 8", fletching and all. Now granted these wood shafts are fresh and have never been wet, have all been perfectly spine matched, and I have about 24 hours into building them, I am pretty much convinced that Im going to stick with woods this year over carbons. Even though I have a pretty good collection of screw in broadheads and probably 40-50 good carbon shafts, the pure satisfaction I get out of shooting my woods is well worth the extra effort it takes to use them.( PS I always turn the points of the grain towards the string so that doesnt happen. That mustve hurt like hell, and can you imagine how hard it would be to not think about that everytime you lined up a shot?)

[Riverjet]

No kidding Evo. The first thing I thought of was where can I get a pair of kevlar shooting gloves.
They say you should test your carbon arrows after every shot for this very reason.

[Bigbear]

"Read the Fine Print" Check your Arrows!

[Bow Walker]

No kidding Evo. The first thing I thought of was where can I get a pair of kevlar shooting gloves.
They say you should test your carbon arrows after every shot for this very reason.


Carbon arrows are either good or broken. The key is to flex them - not gently, but seriously. Don't bend them double, just grasp each end and bend the shaft a good 3 - 4 inches.

Listen carefully while flexing the shaft. If you hear a noise a bit like Rice Krispies in milk while you're flexing the shaft - it's in the "nfg" category.

Don't use it unless you especially want carbon splinters in your hand(s) or in your game meat. There are some pretty gruesome pics floating around the internet of a guy's hand pierced with a shattered carbon shaft. Pretty messy.

Listen carefully while flexing the shaft. If you hear a noise a bit like Rice Krispies in milk while you're flexing the shaft - it's in the "nfg" category. :idea: :roll:

[huntwriter]

New flash, aluminum shafts will bend and snap off as well. It is not like you are going to re-use an arrow after it has passed through an animal, what's the big deal?

I shoot aluminum arrows since I started bowhunting 16 years ago and so far I had never break one. I bent a few when they passed through game and hit a tree on the other side or a rock. I have used some of my arrows several times without any problems. In fact my favorite arrow went through 15 deer and still was fine. I re-fletch them put a new broadhead (125 grain) on and be good to go.

I shot a few carbons but was not happy with them at all. I have to say in all fairness though that was about ten years ago. I am sure today carbon is of a much higher quality.

[Bow Walker]

As has been stated (many times already).......

There are pros and cons for both types of shafts, hell people even use wood (still). Try them all out and make an informed decision.

[Onesock]

What do you mean "people even use wood"?

[Onesock]

There are people that can even shoot a bow without a 2 foot stabalizer, sight's that glow, those release things and the use of binoculars to see where the kill is on a deer they have shot 100 times before!!! LOL Still use wood, you break me up!!!

[jessbennett]

There are people that can even shoot a bow without a 2 foot stabalizer, sight's that glow, those release things and the use of binoculars to see where the kill is on a deer they have shot 100 times before!!! LOL Still use wood, you break me up!!!


who shoots a bow with a little dinky 2 foot stabilizer???? hahahahaha:lol:

[Bow Walker]

What do you mean "people even use wood"?
Most of the shooters that use wood carry them in a quiver so that they can start a fire if the need arises. Kindling anyone? :lol: :p

[Onesock]

Sorry------- Mr Bennett. You are right---------2 foot is too short. Must be tring to make up for something they don't have--ummm? LOL

[PGK]

2 foot, what is this 2 foot crap :lol:

[jessbennett]

Sorry------- Mr Bennett. You are right---------2 foot is too short. Must be tring to make up for something they don't have--ummm? LOL


nope im not compensating for anything. hehehehe... im accesorising it.......:lol:

[jessbennett]

What do you mean "people even use wood"?


im not even going to comment on this................... :lol:

[Riverjet]

Most of the shooters that use wood carry them in a quiver so that they can start a fire if the need arises. Kindling anyone? :lol: :p

Cedar makes for the best kindling:D

[Bow Walker]

AND - you can use the stick that you're flinging with, in a pinch....

[greybark]

:lol: Hey BowWalker , When hunting with a compound bow always hunt with a partner , that way when back in the bush you can use the two bows with a lawnmower motor tryed on and ride them out .:lol: Fire back !!!!
Cheers !!!!

[Bow Walker]

heheheheheh.....not bad, not bad. Keep thinking - you'll come up with a good one yet!

Trad shooters have the added advantage of not having to carry extra weight in the backpack - such as water. All they do is either use their bows, or use two arrows to "douse" for water.

[jessbennett]

heheheheheh.....not bad, not bad. Keep thinking - you'll come up with a good one yet!

Trad shooters have the added advantage of not having to carry extra weight in the backpack - such as water. All they do is either use their bows, or use two arrows to "douse" for water.

ahahahahahahahahahahaaha... ive seen them used on more than one occasion being used to dig up moss to find the first arrow!!!!! lol. they make good rakes. :tongue::biggrin:

[Ambush]

Trad bows are like Model T's. You look cool with one, but they're sure not very practical!!http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif [ ...scene unfolds as all trad shooters start picking up rocks... the rocks being more deadly than the bows]

[greybark]

:biggrin: My oh my am I wrong or are those compound bow wheels getting bigger or what . Right now they are bigger than the hubcaps of my Dodge Cummins Heavy Duty Deisel . :grin:

[Ambush]

:biggrin: Right now they are bigger than the hubcaps of my Dodge Cummins Heavy Duty Deisel . :grin:

I can accept that label happily. And the Trads would be Edsels?http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[jessbennett]

I can accept that label happily. And the Trads would be Edsels?http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif


no no no.... wouldnt wagon wheels be made of wood?????:lol:

[Bow Walker]

Prairie Schooners !!

[greybark]

:biggrin: Darn-it I feel a little outnumbered .
One Trad hunter to another while looking at the latest "PSE " compound remarked that " This thing has more Alum and Plastic than a Ford Escort" :biggrin:
Cheers !!!!

[Bow Walker]

:biggrin: Darn-it I feel a little outnumbered .
One Trad hunter to another while looking at the latest "PSE " compound remarked that " This thing has more Alum and Plastic than a Ford Escort" :biggrin:
Cheers !!!!
...another possible remark - Pretty Shitty Example, isn't it? :roll: :cool:

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Point Shoot Explode....

[BowSitter]

I'm surprised Onesock hasn't backed you up Greybark. He is usually good for a good round of "trash talk". Right Kirk.:-):-)

[Onesock]

:biggrin:No Greybark doesn't need help. I figure one old worn out stick shooter should be able to handle all you wheely shooters. Ken, call me if you need a hand.

[J_T]

Trad bows are like Model T's. You look cool with one, but they're sure not very practical!!http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif [ ...scene unfolds as all trad shooters start picking up rocks... the rocks being more deadly than the bows]Good stuff guys. Well, this one is true. I came back into spike camp late one night and there was a grizzly snooping through my stuff. I dropped my bow and started flinging rocks at him.

Traditional shooters are connesseurs. A trad bow is like a fine woman, she's a masterpiece, simplistic beauty, the feel of her exterior perfection, we run our hands over her limbs, set our arrow ever so expertly against her, holding her with our three fingers.... we pull gentley on her at first, it's about the focus, not the equipment, we stroke her gentley, and as we pull on her toward climax, there is no letting off, she builds to a peak, we become one with her..... we hold her only for a moment... the release is instinctive. Poetry in motion.

[greybark]

:roll: Hemi . sorry for the hi-jacks but the "mechanical" boys made me do it .
With your permission more to follow !!!!!!
Cheers

[Bow Walker]

I think we scared Hemi off with our banter. Maybe we better be a wee bit more polite to those of us who get befuddled with a couple wheels or a cam or two.

[Ambush]

Nice prose J T. Some of the older trad fellas won't need their viagra to keep them from rolling out of bed tonight.:shock:

But some of us just like a flashy Vegas show girl that can really perform!!

[Hemi]

This is actually quite humerous, I am still waiting for the "my daddy can beat up your daddy" comments. Don't let me stop, you carry on, I think I will stick with carbon shafts, aluminum coloured with a wood insert so not to be prejudice. And since my bow has wheels I will do alittle traditional prayer just to keep myself well rounded and up to date with all aspsects of archery.. I may even go alittle further and make my own broadheads out of flint, just to stay ahead of the game..hehe:tongue:

[Bowzone_Mikey]

well Hemi .... Sorry i was outta town last week ..this week is cold and i doing renos at my place ....as far as my daddy can beat up yer daddy goes

One can say that ...this aint yer daddys bow ...and Catch us if you can