season dates finalized

[ruttinbuck]

Anyone know when the upcoming fall seasons will be finalized?
Interested in the Nov mulie season in reg 5 changes.
thx RB

[bridger]

region 5 is under review right now and final decision probably in the next 10 days

[ruttinbuck]

thanks for the update

[fin241]

Rumour is reducing region 5 bag limit on bucks from 2 to 1, as well as closing for the rut....keep in mind, just the scuttlebutt that I've been hearing.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

As fin241 indicated, the two proposals that went to Victoria were reducing the bag limit(bucks) from two to one, and cutting the season back to Nov 10 from 20th. Should be interesting to see the outcome,, we could use another 20 page thread on region 5 mule deer.;)

[ruttinbuck]

As fin241 indicated, the two proposals that went to Victoria were reducing the bag limit(bucks) from two to one, and cutting the season back to Nov 10 from 20th. Should be interesting to see the outcome,, we could use another 20 page thread on region 5 mule deer.;)
So you are saying any buck til the 10th of Nov,then closed?{with a 1 buck limit}
Or Any buck til the 10th then 4pt season still open form the 20th til the 30th with a 1 buck limit for reg 5 over all the seasons?RB

[blackbart]

The proposal as I know it is as follows:
- Early season rifle and archery hunts remain the same
- Region 5 will have a one mule deer buck limit in 2009
- Any mule deer buck season will be from Sept 10th to Nov 10th
- No mule deer buck season from Nov 11th to Nov 20th
- Four point or better mule deer buck season from Nov 21st to Nov 30th
- Any mule deer buck archery season from Dec 1st to Dec 10th

This information is not accurate until approved by Victoria. Perhaps another member can post some more current information. Lets hope that the rut hunt is only postponed for a year or two at the max while population dynamics recover.

I for one could never understand the logic of allowing the any buck season to run through the rut?? Gee, I wonder why the buck recruitement is down.

[PGK]

Still pretty silly to have the 4pt season at the end of the month, if you ask me. I was of the understanding the big bucks were getting hammered out in the late season. Are they that concerned about 2 and 3pt bucks getting slammed between the 10th and the 20th? I'm confused.

[GoatGuy]

Wait for the regs. All the above is nothing but rumors until then.

[Skeena Hunter 1]

Although I agree with you Goat Guy as far as waiting, what I stated earlier is indeed fact not rumour.

[PGK]

It's rumour at this point, all of it. And it doesn't make any sense to me...

[jessbennett]

it still baffles me as to why we dont get a 1 or 2 week doe season here in region 5? its not like there is a shortage of them. and most definately, the more mature buck around here seemed to be getting hammered at the the last 10 days or so in november. it makes no sense at all. :?

[PGK]

it still baffles me as to why we dont get a 1 or 2 week doe season here in region 5? its not like there is a shortage of them. and most definately, the more mature buck around here seemed to be getting hammered at the the last 10 days or so in november. it makes no sense at all. :?

That's exactly my thinking :? A nov 10-20 'rut' closure is kind of loopy, cause I haven't seen them rut down there until at least the 21st for the last 3 years...and hey, let's give out 3000 doe LEH instead of opening a GOS...:-|

[jessbennett]

That's exactly my thinking :? A nov 10-20 'rut' closure is kind of loopy, cause I haven't seen them rut down there until at least the 21st for the last 3 years...and hey, let's give out 3000 doe LEH instead of opening a GOS...:-|


no kidding. im not really seeing any difference in having 3000 leh's or having a gos. well there is one difference............ 3000 leh's= some coin in the pocket for the govt i suppose. :?

the rut closure is a joke. lol . what does it solve? absolutely nothing. most people i know, around here wont even seriously start chasing the big boys till the last ten days of nov anyways. or early in the alpine. its kinda dumb i say.

[tinhorse]

I think these will bring alot more bucks back to the region which they are probably goping for. With the limited hunts it will also take some pressure off the late season and will let some of the small 4's grow up. I am all for these proposed changes.

[PGK]

Thing is, as posted above (rumoured), it does nothing to reduce pressure on the big bucks, as far as I can see, cause they'll get a ten day rest and then get friggin hammered for the thickest part of the rut from the 21st to the 30th...

[jessbennett]

I think these will bring alot more bucks back to the region which they are probably goping for. With the limited hunts it will also take some pressure off the late season and will let some of the small 4's grow up. I am all for these proposed changes.


does that really make sense???? cause those small fours's are going to be fair game again on the 21'st ov nov????

[jessbennett]

Thing is, as posted above (rumoured), it does nothing to reduce pressure on the big bucks, as far as I can see, cause they'll get a ten day rest and then get friggin hammered for the thickest part of the rut from the 21st to the 30th...


hahaha you beat me to it....... :-P... i hope its just a rumor. but nothing surprises me with the govt anymore

[PGK]

Well, what would you like to see?

[bridger]

those proposal went to victoria for sure but at the recent phraac meeting there was much discussion about these and no decicisons were made they are being considered for re evaluation

[Fisher-Dude]

Who says we need any changes to the season with an 18:100 buck:doe ratio (target is 20, and 15 - 25 is normal), besides the guide outfitters who want it managed for trophy deer?

[tinhorse]

There is no way that some of those areas are 18:100 ratios. Last year we saw well over 300 different deer on our trip to 5-14 and only 5 bucks. The best thing they could do is shut it down completly during the rut for a few years and have a GOS for does. make it a two deer limit, any buck in the early season sept 9 - oct 31 and a two week doe season in sept or oct and then shut it down for November. I would love to see some big ones (180 +) walking around the hills again.

[tinhorse]

At least with what they have proposed it is a start.

[BCrams]

There is no way that some of those areas are 18:100 ratios. Last year we saw well over 300 different deer on our trip to 5-14 and only 5 bucks. The best thing they could do is shut it down completly during the rut for a few years and have a GOS for does. make it a two deer limit, any buck in the early season sept 9 - oct 31 and a two week doe season in sept or oct and then shut it down for November. I would love to see some big ones (180 +) walking around the hills again.

Using two feet should get you into areas where you may see a 180+ buck.

The reality is, 180 class mule deer and even 170 class bucks are rarely seen anywhere in the province. On a grand scale with the entire mule deer harvest in BC, darned few bucks 175+ are taken.

I saw this happening when they changed the regulations to anybuck during the rut. If it isn't broke (buck:doe ratios), why mess with it? At this point, I believe they should revert back to Nov 1st - 4 point season start.

With the buck to doe ratio at a healthy 18:100, there is and was no reason to change the season in the first place.

[PGK]

Using two feet should get you into areas where you may see a 180+ buck.

The reality is, 180 class mule deer and even 170 class bucks are rarely seen anywhere in the province. On a grand scale with the entire mule deer harvest in BC, darned few bucks 175+ are taken.

I saw this happening when they changed the regulations to anybuck during the rut. If it isn't broke (buck:doe ratios), why mess with it? At this point, I believe they should revert back to Nov 1st - 4 point season start.

With the buck to doe ratio at a healthy 18:100, there is and was no reason to change the season in the first place.

Do you really believe that? Or are you just going off the numbers? I believe there's a shortage of bucks.....and I'm not in the truck 100% of the time.

[ruttinbuck]

At this point, I believe they should revert back to Nov 1st - 4 point season start.

With the buck to doe ratio at a healthy 18:100, there is and was no reason to change the season in the first place.
X2
Did'nt realize these are the numbers.Bio in WL lead me to believe they were alot lower.
LET'S GET BACK TO MANAGING BY SCIENCE,NOT POLITICAL GAIN.RB

[GoatGuy]

The counts have revealed an average buck/doe ratio of 19.8:100 in 3 spots. This does not constitute a conservation concern. The number of mature bucks that have been counted are on par for a buck/doe ratio in that range.

4 pt seasons do not increase the number of mature bucks.

Just because you didn't see any 'big bucks' or you saw a bunch of deer and didn't see 20 bucks/100 does doesn't mean they aren't there and it also doesn't mean what you've seen is reflective of the population.

There are plenty of people that wonder around Region 8 every year and every year they send emails to regional staff about how the buck numbers are down, deer numbers are down, must have been a huge die-off last winter, and on and on, because they spent 5, 10 or 15 days wondering around aimlessly in the bush hoping to run into the next cover page of 'big buck'. Story of a hunter. :lol:


Skeena Hunter you are correct that those are the proposals that went from the staff in Region 5 BUT whether they'll be supported is a big unknown.

[GoatGuy]

X2
Did'nt realize these are the numbers.Bio in WL lead me to believe they were alot lower.
LET'S GET BACK TO MANAGING BY SCIENCE,NOT POLITICAL GAIN.RB

You should call him back and ask for an email of the counts.:p

[GoatGuy]

it still baffles me as to why we dont get a 1 or 2 week doe season here in region 5? its not like there is a shortage of them. :?

Latest is the branch staff are looking at reducing the antlerless LEH opportunity.

Doesn't make any sense to me either.

[Gunner]

X2
Did'nt realize these are the numbers.Bio in WL lead me to believe they were alot lower.
LET'S GET BACK TO MANAGING BY SCIENCE,NOT POLITICAL GAIN.RBA biologist that stretchs the truth,or downright lies?Surely you are joking RB!;)

[PGK]

The counts have revealed an average buck/doe ratio of 19.8:100 in 3 spots. This does not constitute a conservation concern. The number of mature bucks that have been counted are on par for a buck/doe ratio in that range.

4 pt seasons do not increase the number of mature bucks.

Just because you didn't see any 'big bucks' or you saw a bunch of deer and didn't see 20 bucks/100 does doesn't mean they aren't there and it also doesn't mean what you've seen is reflective of the population.

There are plenty of people that wonder around Region 8 every year and every year they send emails to regional staff about how the buck numbers are down, deer numbers are down, must have been a huge die-off last winter, and on and on, because they spent 5, 10 or 15 days wondering around aimlessly in the bush hoping to run into the next cover page of 'big buck'. Story of a hunter. :lol:


Skeena Hunter you are correct that those are the proposals that went from the staff in Region 5 BUT whether they'll be supported is a big unknown.

It certainly isn't a conservation concern, but it certainly doesn't present great harvest opportunities either.....

[ruttinbuck]

A biologist that stretchs the truth,or downright lies?Surely you are joking RB!;)
I find it amazing that two bios with the same qualifications can manage neighbouring regions with basically the same animal patterns so differently.
I also find it amazing that guys with no formal wildlife management training can predict what will happen in the near future based on the decisions made by some educated professionals.RB

[GoatGuy]

It certainly isn't a conservation concern, but it certainly doesn't present great harvest opportunities either.....

Actually it does, that means there's a pile of harvest opportunity because hunters are allowed to harvest wildlife. The other option, as they already seem to like to do, is simply run more of them over with vehicles between WL and Quesnel. Either that or have the ranchers start calling up FN to knock them back in the dead of winter.

Or if they had some sort of communication between regions they could help spread hunter harvest and pressure out, but they don't. If they moved all the regions to any buck at the same time or all the regions to 4 pt at the same time you'd balance things out but clearly some people believe they not only live in the center of the universe, but that they are they center of the universe. Therefore they don't bother and continue managing the deer in their backyard instead of looking at deer across the province.


Region 5 is probably seeing the highest numbers of mule deer hunters in the province right now. Wonder why?

[GoatGuy]

I find it amazing that two bios with the same qualifications can manage neighbouring regions with basically the same animal patterns so differently.

You need to ask what or better yet who they're managing for.

[ruttinbuck]

You need to ask what or better yet who they're managing for.
I am doing my best to stay politically correct :razz:

[GoatGuy]

I am doing my best to stay politically correct :razz:

There's a time and a place for everything I suppose.

[PGK]

OK poorly phrased. It doesn't leave a whole lot of quality buck harvest, I think

[GoatGuy]

OK poorly phrased. It doesn't leave a whole lot of quality buck harvest, I think

At 20:100 it's likely no more or less than the rest of most of the Province. There are several other areas across the province that will be right around that number (most actually) and will have close to the same proportion of what you term 'quality' bucks. However, you don't normally find 'quality' bucks wondering around in rolling hills.

It seems a lot of folks have a desire to grow and shoot 'big bucks'. The guys that consistently shoot/see big deer don't do it because there's a major surplus, it's because they know where to go and how to hunt. There are spots in every region that get pounded but there are also spots that are shitt8 to hunt and consistently produce good bucks. Knowing where those spots are and how to hunt them is a whole 'nother thread.

Also when you start managing for quality you hit a slippery slope.

Quality for most hunters is putting meat in the freezer, for some guys it's seeing a 4 pt, for some it's shooting a 4 pt and for a few it's shooting something that's 180 or even 200+.

Sticking with the science means you allow everybody an opportunity.

Start putting in restrictions and you too will find yourself squeezed out by somebody else.

"If I had it myyyyyyy wayyy................."

[dana]

One can hope if things aren't finalized yet, they might take the time and get together with the bios from the southern regions and hammer out a better plan. But....I'm coming to the conclusion there probably isn't much hope for that, as that would show common sense, and as I've stated before, common sense ain't too common these days.

"It seems a lot of folks have a desire to grow and shoot 'big bucks'. The guys that consistently shoot/see big deer don't do it because there's a major surplus, it's because they know where to go and how to hunt. There are spots in every region that get pounded but there are also spots that are shitt8 to hunt and consistently produce good bucks. Knowing where those spots are and how to hunt them is a whole 'nother thread."

GG,
Bang on! Those that consistantly kill big bucks not only know where and how to hunt them, they also put a hell of a lot of time in year round pursuing their passion and wear out a lot of pairs of quality boots.

[tinhorse]

"Using two feet should get you into areas where you may see a 180+ buck."

I don't road hunt at all. I hike my ass off 100% of the day from first to last light. Maybe they shouldn't be lumping all of region 5 together, and make changes to subzones seperately

[ruttinbuck]

One can hope if things aren't finalized yet, they might take the time and get together with the bios from the southern regions and hammer out a better plan. But....I'm coming to the conclusion there probably isn't much hope for that, as that would show common sense, and as I've stated before, common sense ain't too common these days.
Dana some of the bios can't even agree on how to management let alone manage with a common theory.
Really pisses me off as everyone would benefit.RB

[dana]

ruttinbuck,
The one common thread I see is that the mantra 'hunters are their worst enemy' isn't neccesarily true. Instead it seems those in power are doing a fine job killing hunters off. They preach one thing and then practice something totally different.

[frenchbar]

"Using two feet should get you into areas where you may see a 180+ buck."

I don't road hunt at all. I hike my ass off 100% of the day from first to last light. Maybe they shouldn't be lumping all of region 5 together, and make changes to subzones seperately That makes too much sense,so i dought it would fly:wink:

[BCrams]

Do you really believe that? Or are you just going off the numbers? I believe there's a shortage of bucks.....and I'm not in the truck 100% of the time.

I know so. From both numbers and my experience hunting / working in Reg 5.

No shortage of bucks Kris. They just aren't always where you want them to be. I have no problem finding mature 4 pt bucks everytime I go hunting down there.

I also know 2 people who hunted there this past fall in areas I have hunted and they saw plenty of bucks including shooters.

GG pretty much nailed it when it comes to mature buck harvests. In particular for big ones. Often its the same guys every other year who are consistently taking them. They know where and what they need to do to hunt mature bucks. It is not very often you catch them out in the wide open hills where the vast majority of hunters are.

[PGK]

I know so. From both numbers and my experience hunting / working in Reg 5.

No shortage of bucks Kris. They just aren't always where you want them to be. I have no problem finding mature 4 pt bucks everytime I go hunting down there.

I also know 2 people who hunted there this past fall in areas I have hunted and they saw plenty of bucks including shooters.

GG pretty much nailed it when it comes to mature buck harvests. In particular for big ones. Often its the same guys every other year who are consistently taking them. They know where and what they need to do to hunt mature bucks. It is not very often you catch them out in the wide open hills where the vast majority of hunters are.

I have a penchant for hunting low productivity areas, that much is a known fact :neutral: Probably the most influential factor in my observations over the last three years.

[dana]

PGK,
A trophy class buck is a 1 in 500 buck. They don't grow behind every tree. While it may seem they are in fact common place because of what you see guys like me post on the internet, that is indeed a distorted view of reality. It takes a lot more than just pounding the hills to kill one. You could very well be hunting in the right place, but your timing could be off, or you could be hunting in the absolutely wrong place at the wrong time too. Unless you do your homework and put a considerable amount of time and sweat equity in, killing a big buck in BC is a crapshoot. There is just way too much ground a big ol' bruiser can hide in. Those that consistantly kill big bucks aren't doing so as they bounce down a logging road with Shania cranked on the Sirus, as they pound back a cold one. A big buck gets big by growing old. He only grows old by being smart. When you think about it, he's got to avoid wolves, lions, bears, wolverines, golden eagles, coyotes, car collisions, cold, snow, sleet, hail, rain, avalanches, drought, forest fires, you name it. Human hunters are the least of his worries. A cagey buck doesn't expose himself in the open in the daylight very often.

[aggiehunter]

Dana, they all get horny. I don't think guys are dragging big bucks into clear cuts for photo op's...or are they that sneaky. My Cousin shoots 170 class bucks almost every year in the rut and the only hiking he does is from the quad to the deer and back. Now I understand 170 may not be big enough for some of you guys but deer do get stupid, its not rocket science as some would make it appear. Buy lots of gas and drive around.

[jessbennett]

Dana, they all get horny. I don't think guys are dragging big bucks into clear cuts for photo op's...or are they that sneaky. My Cousin shoots 170 class bucks almost every year in the rut and the only hiking he does is from the quad to the deer and back. Now I understand 170 may not be big enough for some of you guys but deer do get stupid, its not rocket science as some would make it appear. Buy lots of gas and drive around.


the majority of "horny" bucks arent hanging around in clearcuts either. granted you can get lucky and catch one in the open, but in the timber is where its at. find the bedding areas, game trails, scrapes,food sources and learn the spot.try a treestand, or a ground blind. its amazing how much more game you'll see. pretty hard to do that from the seat of pickup.

[dana]

Dana, they all get horny. I don't think guys are dragging big bucks into clear cuts for photo op's...or are they that sneaky. My Cousin shoots 170 class bucks almost every year in the rut and the only hiking he does is from the quad to the deer and back. Now I understand 170 may not be big enough for some of you guys but deer do get stupid, its not rocket science as some would make it appear. Buy lots of gas and drive around.

160-170 class bucks aren't 1 in 500 bucks. For the most part they are good solid mature deer in the 3 to 5 year age bracket. And yes, you are right, given good rut conditions, it isn't too difficult to find and kill a buck of that class pretty much anywhere in this province. I, personally, wouldn't call them trophy bucks. They can look dang nice, but they ain't the caliber buck that I'm talking about. When you jump up into that 180-200 inch bracket, for the most part you are dealing with 5-10 year old bucks that have learned to survive by being very cagey and secretive. Not a lot of guys are consistantly killing these type of bucks by road hunting. I have met some oldtimers who know how to get r done. For the most part they hunt the migration routes and they have incredible patience to sit and wait for a true monster to cross in front of them. The time and experience they have under their belt is what gives them their success. The average hunter that drives around willy nilly is basing his whole hunt on one thing, LUCK! Being in the right place at the right time. Yes, guys get lucky like this every year in this province. If you have horseshoes jammed up where the sun don't shine, if you are the type that wins big in Vegas or on the 649, then and only then, you might get that buck of your dreams by not working for it. I, myself, have never been a lucky person. I can't even win 2 bucks on a scratch and win. The only LEH's I ever get are 2:1 or less odds. Without luck on my side, I have to rely on good old fashion hard work to kill the bucks I do. It is a year round passion as I scout post season, shed hunt, scout preseason and then hunt during the season. I am constantly learning new ground and putting the puzzle pieces together. The amount of time and effort I put in is hard to fathom. It isn't how many days I'm out there, rather how few days I'm not out there. Even at that, I can go months without seeing a buck that I would consider a monster.

[Timbow]

As stated earlier, being at the right place at the right time is half the battle. I know of a guy who harvested a 185'ish mulie (net) while skidding wood to a landing. Lucky for him he happened to have his gun in the truck. Not my style of hunting but he took advantage of being in the right place at the right time.