East Kootenay Whitey rut timing

[Islandeer]

Hey to all of you EK range rat hunter's. We have been chasin (sitting) whities for quite a spell and have noticed that the hard rut seems to be getting later. We had some great hunts in the early 90's around Nov 10 - 15. Last few years have been up a little later but I think we are still a bit early. This season we were there from the 15th to the 20th,just kicked in on our last day. Not to say that the rut wasn't underway to some degree before, but we saw no fresh scrapes,rubs etc. What is your take on this years peak rut times.

Cheers!

[J_T]

Yup, you're right.

Rut could always be counted on Nov 11. Through the 60's, 70's, 80's. Started to shift in the 90's and is now late Nov. Somewhat weather dependant.

[slyfox]

Was up there this year on nov 10 to the 15 and only saw 4 bucks a spike and two 2 pointer and a three pointer that i got.Walk like hell this year and did see a lot of doe's but the big boys were not around yet going up later next year.

[sfire436]

I do a bit of late season bowhunting around Kimberly. A resident that I hunt with there says he really does not see the big guys come down the mountain till the beggining of bow season (dec 1st) either it's because the rut is now starting later or perhaps they are just smart enough to wait till the gun hunters are gone!

[6616]

For years we assumed the peak of the rut to be the 15th of November or there abouts. It definitlely seems later today, may be a function of climate change...? There's certainly lots of deer, but I don't think the buck/doe ratio is all that good.

[Ddog]

buck to doe ration here sux,, you can go out early season and see hundreds of does and some small bucks, it seems somedays its 100-1 buck to doe.
one day here this year though in the rut we saw 8 bucks and about 20 does by 10 in the morning, that was a good day. but within 2 days of that in the same spot we saw 0 bucks and over 50 does.

this year it seemed (to me) that the peek of the rut was the last week of November. lots of bucks were running around then.

[boyd050]

yup I think your all right, later rut than years prior, and on the other point of buck to doe ratio I got beat up last year for even mentioning that here, I was told in many different ways that I needed to hunt better(even though I had my buck) and the bucks were fine here, never mind I saw literally hundreds of does to a buck, but that's a different topic... anyway again your right later ruts I think are the future here.

[6616]

buck to doe ration here sux,,

I agree. An interesting point to think about is we actually harvest about 5000 to 6000 bucks per year. If the pre-season buck/doe ratio is 10 or less per 100 does, just how many darned does are there out there,,,,??? Man there must be a lot. Considering the high twinning rate of WTD there probably should be just as many or more fawns then does up until winter weather kicks in. So how many WTD are there in the Kootenay's anyway? The number must be staggering...! Sounds to me like we should be killing a bunch more does, what do you guys think?

Is this a hijack...?

[bridger]

funny but the rut in the peace is getting later as well seems to match the dates in the ek

[Ddog]

i think there needs to more LEH doe tags here.
i sit in a treestand and watch doe after doe come by lots with twin and even triplet fawns, the biggest group of does i seen this season was 18.
i do my part by passing the smaller bucks to harvest a doe, i always wait until the last couple of days of archery to take a doe or two.

[6616]

i think there needs to more LEH doe tags here.
i sit in a treestand and watch doe after doe come by lots with twin and even triplet fawns, the biggest group of does i seen this season was 18.
i do my part by passing the smaller bucks to harvest a doe, i always wait until the last couple of days of archery to take a doe or two.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't just go straight to an any deer season like Alberta uses in their mountain blocks and eliminate the LEH? It's been sustainable there for decades through good winters and bad. It keeps the population well below carrying capacity where it should be. I can't help but wonder if we're not way over carrying capacity and ripe for a major winter die-off event. Maybe I should start a new thread before I get heck...?

[bridger]

I agree 6616 this may be something for a new thread, but I agree with your comments. for years the peace country had the most restrictive mule deer harvest strategy in the province and perhaps the highest density of mule deer in the province. This resulted in two things 1)a huge die off in the winter of 2006 and 2) the ranchers putting so much pressure on the moe that we now have basically a wide open anterless mule deer and anterless elk season. the pendulum went to far as is often the case. same thing happened I believe in the kootenays years back with cow elk.

[sawmill]

The past 4 years I`ve been getting my bucks in Sept.,and damn nice ones too.After a month the good ones slip away someplace and don`t really appear again till the rut.I got this seasons on Sept.22,he was in a group of 3 other bucks,one 3 and 2 other 5 pnts.My wife got her CORE in time for the last 3 weekends of the season and I could not find even a spike !I think we should have an short(2 week)general open for antlerless,give the bucks a break,I saw thousands of does last fall.

[hunter1947]

I myself think that they where rutting ,at times you think there not ,but don't let this fool you.

What I saw on the island last year in mid Nov was the same thing ,you think that they arent in to the rut ,but they where ,maybe not as hard as you would like ,but where .

[GoatGuy]

Want more bucks shoot more does.

[BCrams]

Perhaps an incentive in areas to harvest does?

1 antlerless and 1 buck

More people may be inclined to harvest a doe right away on a hunt to 'ensure' they have meat for the freezer and then hunt for bucks?

[J_T]

Perhaps an incentive in areas to harvest does?

1 antlerless and 1 buck

More people may be inclined to harvest a doe right away on a hunt to 'ensure' they have meat for the freezer and then hunt for bucks? There's pretty good incentive right now. Archery season. Sept 1 -9 and Dec 1 - 20. Take two does.

[BCrams]

There's pretty good incentive right now. Archery season. Sept 1 -9 and Dec 1 - 20. Take two does.

How many does do archers take?

Wouldn't you agree rifle hunters can make an additional contribution to the antlerless harvest archery hunters make?

[J_T]

How many does do archers take?

Wouldn't you agree rifle hunters can make an additional contribution to the antlerless harvest archery hunters make?I wasn't suggesting there wasn't an opportunity for a rifle hunt. I was merely adding to the information being discussed. A 20 day opportunity for any whitetail (using a bow) is pretty good incentive.

To answer your question the 20 day late season has not been in that long and there is a definite increase in users/hunters enjoying this season. Actual numbers harvested, I don't know. But leave a good season/opportunity in place and hunters will find it. From the camps that I know success rates run from 60 - 100%. (# of hunters = # of deer taken)

It depends on the objective. Create a new rifle opportunity, or take more does.

[6616]

I believe the objective should be to take enough does to keep the population at about 60% of the habitat carying capacity since that's about the level where MSY (maximum sustainable yield) or maximum sustainable hunter harvest occurs, and also to improve the buck/doe ratio. Doesn't matter how we do it, we just need to harvest more does then we are now. Currently we're harvesting 5000 to 6000 bucks and 700 does in Region 4. Considering the current buck/doe ratio (probably 90% of the adult deer population are does) we probably could be harvesting as many does as bucks, maybe even more.

Seems to me that heavy buck harvest and moderate doe harvests may be exasperating the problems, IE: not controlling population expansion or correcting low buck/doe ratios.