Assiniboine Sheep LEH Information -

[BCrams]

Given the Assiniboine Sheep LEH is 80:1 for 1 permit and the ensueing logistics of such a hunt, I thought I would put together information I have been able to piece together which should cut down on research and allow the hunter plan accordingly should he/she wish to undertake the hunt.

I truely believe anyone who draws this permit should have all the information available at hand to be successful. This should start them off:

Lets go over the logistics first:

Access is the toughest hurdle overcoming the permit holder. Its a 'long haul' to get to where the sheep are. There are two ways to go about it. Backpacking and by horses. There are no lakes to fly into.

Backpacking - not recommended. There are not too many individuals who can pack in there in October over 40-50km to where the sheep are, shoot a ram and pack the whole thing out without the help of a couple hunting partners. Especially when you have to gear up for cold October weather in the mountains.

Horses - highly recommended and best way to go. Pack all the comforts of home with a few horses etc or go light and just lead a horse carrying everything on foot (which is what I'd be more inclined to do)

The LEH hunt area is highlighted on Page 55 of the hunting regulations along with the closed "CORE" area.

Keep in mind - the CORE area is "no hunting and no firearm possession" which effectivly eliminates a much quicker and straighforward route to the sheep area. Instead, you're being 'routed' a different direction......one that is much longer and a pita!!

More to come.........

[Jigger]

why did you start a new thread, GREG? Are you trying to bi-pass the last one. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. For us who are in Region 4 and that apply for this tag annually, I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds based on "gospil" information provided by yourself. If someone whats to apply for a tag, they should research the area they are applying for and that's the bottom line. The regs are in place for a reason and we should be thankful for the opportunity we have been given to even hunt the Assiniboine. I hate to say this, but I agree that more tags could be given as this wouldn't hurt the overall population of that herd.

As for your PM, wondering who I am.............they call me JIGGER!

[Dirty]

why did you start a new thread, GREG? Are you trying to bi-pass the last one. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. For us who are in Region 4 and that apply for this tag annually, I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds based on "gospil" information provided by yourself. If someone whats to apply for a tag, they should research the area they are applying for and that's the bottom line. The regs are in place for a reason and we should be thankful for the opportunity we have been given to even hunt the Assiniboine. I hate to say this, but I agree that more tags could be given as this wouldn't hurt the overall population of that herd.

As for your PM, wondering who I am.............they call me JIGGER!

What's the big deal. HBC is For Hunters, By Hunters, Helping Hunters. Let's make it easy for every LEH and open season in BC until we shoot every last animal, including the Bighorns at the Kamloops Zoo.

[BCRiverBoater]

why did you start a new thread, GREG? Are you trying to bi-pass the last one. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. For us who are in Region 4 and that apply for this tag annually, I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds based on "gospil" information provided by yourself. If someone whats to apply for a tag, they should research the area they are applying for and that's the bottom line. The regs are in place for a reason and we should be thankful for the opportunity we have been given to even hunt the Assiniboine. I hate to say this, but I agree that more tags could be given as this wouldn't hurt the overall population of that herd.

As for your PM, wondering who I am.............they call me JIGGER!

I second...what is the big deal? We are mostly all BC residents with the right to hunt ANYWHERE IN BC, as IS OUR RIGHT! The way I read his thread is way different than yours. He is telling everyone they need to do research before applying. It is a hard area to access but does produce rams. It is only fair to tell our local BC RESIDENTS the true story. He is, if anything, discouraging residents from applying. Get over the fact that a few people put in for your area. It is 80:1 so what? I live in 7B and have Bison at 100:1 or 200:1. So should I come here and trash everyone who wants to put in for a buffalo draw? Wah! I would rather a BC resident get an animal from BC before anyone else.

He has stated nothing but the true facts. It is a tough area to get drawn for and an even harder area to hunt. He did not tell some one where to go or how to kill a ram. He simply said it is a hard area to access so THINK BEFORE YOU APPLY. This to me means he is protecting the area and telling the truth. If anything, he is helping you.

Boo hoo if somebody other than yourself gets the tag. Do you think that only people in your MU get the right to hunt those sheep? I live in 7B which is one of the most game rich areas in the province. I see more people up here hunting from other areas than you could ever dream of. Do you see me on here telling others to not come up here and do you see me telling other locals to not point out areas or tell other RESIDENTS WHERE GAME IS? No you don't, because reality is...they will go to where the game is and where the best chances are at a trophy.

I give my best regards to anyone who tells the truth and tries to help they neighbor.

You have nice sheep in that LEH area. He was if anything detouring people from applying. Only dedicating sheep hunters will get into that area and only those who deserve a good ram will get one.

Sorry for my rant but I hate when someone tries to snub others for their own personal gain.

[riflebuilder]

I live close to the Assiniboine and had a moose draw there last year it is rugged and a hell of a long way in there. That said be prepared do your home work and be ready to work your butt off. Good luck if you get the tag and I hope to get it before you while the knee is still hanging in there...lol.

PS anybody have a good horse for sale?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

why did you start a new thread, GREG? Are you trying to bi-pass the last one. I know what you are trying to do and I don't like it. For us who are in Region 4 and that apply for this tag annually, I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds based on "gospil" information provided by yourself. If someone whats to apply for a tag, they should research the area they are applying for and that's the bottom line. The regs are in place for a reason and we should be thankful for the opportunity we have been given to even hunt the Assiniboine. I hate to say this, but I agree that more tags could be given as this wouldn't hurt the overall population of that herd.

As for your PM, wondering who I am.............they call me JIGGER!

I would think that this info would deter anyone without access to horses from appying. I know a lot of sheep hunters and not many of them have access to horses.
If the odds were to change in any direction from this thread I'm sure they would go down.

How many rams have been taken by residents in there in the last decade???

SSS

[BiG Boar]

Sounds like a challanging hunt, however it sounds like its loaded with HUGE rams!!!! I am definitley applying there for next year! Woo hooooooo!

[Everett]

So this is what I have been told about accessing assiboine for sheep hunting.
First draw tag.
Second hike into park in summer via cross river stash rifle minus bolt and scope.
Third Hike in via sunshine or simpson river join hunting season retreive rifle kill ram
Fourth stash rifle for second time removing bolt and scope
Fifth hike out via simpson river
Sixth return next year to retreive rifle. Or cut a deal with the ranger to retreive your rifle in return for a bottle of single malt. He has a pal and likes single malt.

You can't hike out with your sheep via sunshine as you cross into alberta and you would not have an export permit.
The regulation state the core is no hunting no mention of no firearms.

One other option is to arrange for the ranger to bring your rifle in for you and leave it for you to retreive.

Hope this helps

[Stone Sheep Steve]

So this is what I have been told about accessing assiboine for sheep hunting.
First draw tag.
Second hike into park in summer via cross river stash rifle minus bolt and scope.
Third Hike in via sunshine or simpson river join hunting season retreive rifle kill ram
Fourth stash rifle for second time removing bolt and scope
Fifth hike out via simpson river
Sixth return next year to retreive rifle. Or cut a deal with the ranger to retreive your rifle in return for a bottle of single malt. He has a pal and likes single malt.

You can't hike out with your sheep via sunshine as you cross into alberta and you would not have an export permit.
The regulation state the core is no hunting no mention of no firearms.

One other option is to arrange for the ranger to bring your rifle in for you and leave it for you to retreive.

Hope this helps

Easy to get an export permit to take it out through Alberta...as long as you're not heading through a National Park(I'm not familiar with the area).

Heard of a guy stashing his rifle and hiking in from a grey area. Authorities were onto him like a dirty shirt(can't remember what the outcome was as far as charges). They know who have the draws and can run vehicle plates for vehicles parked in suspicious areas where one would have to travel through a National Park.

SSS

[BCrams]

So this is what I have been told about accessing assiboine for sheep hunting.

Hope jigger gets all fired up over who told you that info. Sounds like more 'first hand' compared to pulling information from the BC Parks website and Park Plan report.

Fifth hike out via simpson river

If anyone or the outfitter does this, he/she is breaking the rules. As taken from BC Parks:


PLEASE NOTE: The entire core area is closed to hunting and possession of firearms. Please consult the hunting regulations. Access with firearms into the park for the purpose of hunting is allowed through the Mitchell River Drainage. Kootenay and Banff National Parks are closed to the possession of firearms. Any wildlife harvested in the park must be transported out via the Mitchell River Trail.

Or cut a deal with the ranger to retreive your rifle in return for a bottle of single malt. He has a pal and likes single malt.

Interesting.........

The regulation state the core is no hunting no mention of no firearms.

The regulation is just a 'guide', confirmation with BC Parks would have to be made regarding the above statement regarding 'no possession' .... if this can be clarified, the going just got a whole lot easier to get in there for a 'backpacker'.

One other option is to arrange for the ranger to bring your rifle in for you and leave it for you to retreive.

They're allowed to do that?

Hope this helps

...........

[KevinB]

Well said BC riverboater. I agree with you.

I also think that Greg's info will if anything, cut down on the number of applicants, or at least, it will help to make sure that the applicants know what they are getting into, and it will help the B.C. residents who draw this hunt to be successful.

If I understand things correctly, repeated low success rates on these types of LEH hunts will eventually lead to loss of resident allocation in favour of the G/O allocation (i.e. non-residents).

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If I understand things correctly, repeated low success rates on these types of LEH hunts will eventually lead to loss of resident allocation in favour of the G/O allocation (i.e. non-residents).

I believe that is the exact reason for this thread.

SSS

[KevinB]

I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds

"Your" odds? They're Everyone's odds and Everyone's sheep.

[Gateholio]

I believe that this is an information thread for hunters that are contemplating applying for the Assinibone LEH. That is why I "stickied" it. This thread should serve to outiline the challenges of the area.

Those that wish to debate whether or not residents of one region should have better chances at a "local" LEH, please start another thread. Further comments on that topic (in this thread) will be deleted.

[MattB]

I personally don't want a bunch of other people increasing my odds based on "gospil" information provided by yourself.
Wow, take off the velcro gloves and give the rest of us a turn :redface:

[6616]

How many rams have been taken by residents in there in the last decade???SSS

One in 2008 and I believe the last one prior to that was 2005. Prior to 2005 I believe there was a 5 or 6 year period with no resident harvests. The answer is probably 2 in ten years. During the same decade non-residents have harvested at least 10 sheep, probably more.

Non-resident quota is 2 per year. Resident LEH authorizations have also been 2 per year. That's a projected allocation split of 50/50 and clearly will not be in compliance with the allocation policy beyond the 2011 implementation period. The objective is to have actual harvests meet the allocation percentages. Actual harvest of 2 resident and 10+ non-resident is obviously not meeting the allocation policy objective.

With a 10% average ten year success rate, it appears that 10 authorizations would have to be issued to allow residents to harvest each ram. The current allocation percentages for sheep in Region 4 are 67/33. How many authorizations would have to be issued to meet that objective.
If the non-resident quota is pegged at 1 per year the resident allocation would have to be 2 per year to comply with the allocation percentage. That seems that it would require about 20 authorizations per year. BC Parks will never allow that, it's a conundrum. What is the solution? Dare I suggest that it might be to increase the resident success rate by providing him with more information just like Greg is suggesting...!

AGP

[kyleklassen]

sounds like a good spot for archery or maybe slingshot.

[one-shot-wonder]

If I understand things correctly, repeated low success rates on these types of LEH hunts will eventually lead to loss of resident allocation in favour of the G/O allocation (i.e. non-residents).

Exactly, If this thread educates an illprepared applicants about what he/she is really getting into then it has done its job in my eyes.

It's these types of threads that educate, hopefully enabling residents to successfully harvest rams each and every year. Thus sustaining the resident quota and if it ever comes to head maybe an increased quota...

I am curious to know what the harvest has been in the past decade as well, anybody have access to the res/non-res harvest numbers???

[riflebuilder]

This is a tough area to hunt and get into if you do not have the neccessary equipment do not apply. That is why I apply for Phillips creek. But this summer I am getting horses pack saddles and a good wall tent. now just need the tag, lose 20 lbs get in shape, find someone to go with me, get the new lightweight rifle tuned up, buy all the groceries for three or four weeks, book time off now so I can make sure I have it, and last but not least pray that I don't barff a lung chasing up the hills for a ram....Oh hell I am going to just road hunt deer.

[Everett]

You cant get an export permit until it has been inspected ran into this problem this year when returning from the North with my Caribou.
So no crossing into Alberta with a dead sheep on your back.


Easy to get an export permit to take it out through Alberta...as long as you're not heading through a National Park(I'm not familiar with the area).

Heard of a guy stashing his rifle and hiking in from a grey area. Authorities were onto him like a dirty shirt(can't remember what the outcome was as far as charges). They know who have the draws and can run vehicle plates for vehicles parked in suspicious areas where one would have to travel through a National Park.

SSS

[bighornbob]

You cant get an export permit until it has been inspected ran into this problem this year when returning from the North with my Caribou.
So no crossing into Alberta with a dead sheep on your back.

My uncle got one a few years ago. He was hunting an area on the BC/Alberta border and found a route through Alberta that cut his hiking time in half (not in the Assiboine Area).

When he asked about the permit, the guy also wanted to see the ram. My uncle said he had not killed one yet. The guy wanted to know why he needed a export permit if he did not have a ram.

My uncle explained to him where he was hunting and wanted the permit in case he got a ram. He said it would not look good if he was stopped on the Alberta side with a dead sheep hiking out in the dark or the road.

The guy said nobody had ever asked for a export permit before shooting an animal but it made perfect sence to the guy so he issued my uncle an export permit.

BHB

[Everett]

One thing people may want to find out is if BC parks has the right to stop you carrying a firearm. They can say no hunting or no discharge but I would bet they cant stop you carrying. Just because there is a sign does not me there is legislation to back it up.
The National park can stop you carrying a firearm unless you have a status card, hell you even have to case it in your vehicle.
I have a call into the national park wardens at the moment to find out the actual legisalation concerning transporting dead wildlife through the park. I will keep you informed of what they tell me.

[Everett]

Just got off the phone with a provincial park source and there is no rule against carrying a firearm through the core area of Assinboine also join Hunting season there is no warden in the park anyway.

[bayou]

One in 2008 and I believe the last one prior to that was 2005. Prior to 2005 I believe there was a 5 or 6 year period with no resident harvests. The answer is probably 2 in ten years. During the same decade non-residents have harvested at least 10 sheep, probably more.

Non-resident quota is 2 per year. Resident LEH authorizations have also been 2 per year. That's a projected allocation split of 50/50 and clearly will not be in compliance with the allocation policy beyond the 2011 implementation period. The objective is to have actual harvests meet the allocation percentages. Actual harvest of 2 resident and 10+ non-resident is obviously not meeting the allocation policy objective.

With a 10% average ten year success rate, it appears that 10 authorizations would have to be issued to allow residents to harvest each ram. The current allocation percentages for sheep in Region 4 are 67/33. How many authorizations would have to be issued to meet that objective.
If the non-resident quota is pegged at 1 per year the resident allocation would have to be 2 per year to comply with the allocation percentage. That seems that it would require about 20 authorizations per year. BC Parks will never allow that, it's a conundrum. What is the solution? Dare I suggest that it might be to increase the resident success rate by providing him with more information just like Greg is suggesting...!

AGP

Just because there was no resident harvest doesnt mean they didnt hunt, some people just dont have to kill a sheep to say it was a success, I know of 4 or 5 tag holders in the past that went in. Some didnt really hunt that hard more of a holiday some didnt see what they wanted, some the weather didnt cooperate and some the outfitter was ahead of them so didnt interfer. A few of these people knew exactly where to look as well.
I do agree people should do more research on LEH tags before applying, thats on all areas not just this one.

[Jigger]

Everyone,

I PM'd this to BCrams but I think everyone should see it. I am sorry for wrecking a good thread, just got alittle stirred up..


BCrams,

I wanted to appoligize, I was alittle harsh to you, I should have PM'd you. From now on I'll PM you if I have any issue. I agree with most of what you are saying, the part with respect to giving hunters maps of the area and where the sheep are located got me stirred up. I beleave it is part of the hunt to do the research yourself. I will drop this issue, if you want to post my reply please feel free.

Jigger

[6616]

Just because there was no resident harvest doesnt mean they didnt hunt, some people just dont have to kill a sheep to say it was a success, I know of 4 or 5 tag holders in the past that went in. Some didnt really hunt that hard more of a holiday some didnt see what they wanted, some the weather didnt cooperate and some the outfitter was ahead of them so didnt interfer. A few of these people knew exactly where to look as well.
I do agree people should do more research on LEH tags before applying, thats on all areas not just this one.

I agree, I'm pretty sure residents, sheep hunters and other hunters, are in there hunting every year. Regardless of whether they harvest anything, I'm sure they're creating good memories..

[boxhitch]

What are the stats for resident hunters effort ?
How many LEH permit winners actually follow through with a hunt ?
(The numbers of permits should be realistic for the target harvest number.)
Compare that to the success and it will tell you if the hunt is worth applying for.
It sounds like there has been quite a bit of Resident hunting and some success, so it can be done.
I doubt this post will change anything.

Now, if I post up a good ram pic from the meadows..........

[riflebuilder]

I just finished reading the park management plan very informative. I know in the past it was possible to travel through a National Park with a fire arm if it is sealed or in a locked case. We used to go through Waterton Lakes National park to hunt sheep. The hike was only 5 Km instead of the usual 25 Km the long way. The wardens office afixed a seal to our rifles and they were carried in a case on the pack with the bolts removed. I don't know if this is still done as it was about 20 years ago.

[Everett]

So just got off the phone with a realy cool National Parks Manager. His take was it is a bit of a grey area wether you could hike out the Simpson with a sheep. He said the regulations aren't written to cover this so its open to interpetation. You would basicly have to prove you had no other real option. For example to much snow in the mitchel river or I hurt my Knee. He said you might also run into an anti hunting warden and get charged.
He said you could apply for a special use permit but didn't think it would be issued. He said they are issued for carrying firearms through the park though.
Also got confirmation that the guide outfitter in assinboine is a National Park Warden.
One thing I did notice in the regs if you lived in the National Park it would be legal.
So in a nut shell its as clear as mud.:confused:

[BCrams]

[quote=Everett;393939]So just got off the phone with a realy cool National Parks Manager. His take was it is a bit of a grey area wether you could hike out the Simpson with a sheep. He said the regulations aren't written to cover this so its open to interpetation.

It is....as taken from the National Parks Act (bold part): http://www.parkscanada.ca/ scroll down to the wildlife act

20.


(1) No person shall be in possession of a firearm in a park unless the firearm is not loaded and is transported in a case or is wrapped and tied securely in such a manner that no part of the firearm is exposed.

(No mention at all whether it has to be in a vehicle or out of vehicle. So why not lash a lightweight plastic case on your pack or horse with bolt separated in another bag?)

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to

(a) a person in Mingan Archipelago National Park Reserve who is hunting pursuant to a hunting permit
issued under subsection 13.1(1); or

(b) a bonded armoured car service guard who is carrying out assigned duties in the park.

(3) No person shall
(a) have a loaded firearm in or on a vehicle, vessel or aircraft; or
(b) discharge a firearm from a vehicle, vessel or aircraft.

(4) The superintendent may issue a permit authorizing a person to carry a firearm or trap where the firearm or trap is to be carried through the park for use outside the park.

(In this case, if rifle is exposed or even in a case .... this guy can issue you a permit as per National Parks Act. Whether he or they 'will' issue one is the question as you stated!!!!)

Regarding wildlife transport: this is also allowed as per National Parks Act:


(4) A person may, in any park other than a park referred to in paragraph (1)(b), have in the person’s possession any wildlife if

(a) subject to subsection (5), the person in possession of the wildlife produces, on the request of a park warden or other park officer,

(i) an export permit as issued pursuant to the Game Export Act,

(ii) a hunting licence or permit or a trapping licence or permit issued by the province in which the wildlife was procured,

(iii) a hunting tag issued by the province in which the wildlife was procured and the tag is properly placed on the wildlife as required by the laws of that province, or

(iv) where the wildlife has been obtained as a gift, a valid licence or permit issued by the province in which the wildlife was procured permitting a person to give such wildlife to another person or a statement signed by the donor of the gift that includes the date of the gift, the type and number of wildlife, the name of the person receiving the gift and the licence or permit number under which the wildlife was procured; and

A definate grey area as you mention.

Now it will be interesting to see if the current Outfitter (Mr John Niddrie) who is a Park Warden will have to follow the same rules as resident LEH holders.

[bridger]

resident permits will be increased in this area for 2009

[mark4]

I hope everyone brings their textbook of statutes and laws regarding carrying a rifle through the forest. Could we add just a little more red-tape please lol- I wonder why hunter numbers are down ??

[boxhitch]

resident permits will be increased in this area for 2009Now if the sheep were only there....
Success has been very poor, not sure of all reasons.

[BCrams]

Now if the sheep were only there....
Success has been very poor, not sure of all reasons.

1- access

2- first draw is virtually a washout.....sheep aren't there yet.

[boxhitch]

1- access

Another spot where a group hunt may get more participatoin.

[bigben]

I just want to put in my two bits my buddy and his friend backpacked in and killed a 181 boone and crockett ram big horse trail all the way in ............competition is with the guide in there .........lots of rams .......beautiful country ..........have to get a government permit if your to use horses......time and date of depature and return ....you start on settlers road in the national park some issues of transportation of rifle permit needed .....other than that you just have to draw good luck

[pro 111]

Sounds like a challanging hunt, however it sounds like its loaded with HUGE rams!!!! I am definitley applying there for next year! Woo hooooooo!
me too !!!!

[ydouask]

Good For You Jigger ! It takes honesty and strong character to apologize for things said in the "heat of the moment". Also, good for you Greg in pointing out the degree of preparedness required for many of the LEH hunts. All applicants need to carefully consider the logistics of the hunts for which they apply so that they have a good chance of success.

[Twobucks]

It's been a few months, but it's LEH season, so I think it's fair to resurrect this thread.

Does anyone have pictures of the trail in from the BC side? I've been down some horse trails in the NP's on the Alberta side of the border and they're pitted by hooves and tough walking, especially after a freeze. Others are like mountain bike highways.

Weather alone should be enough to make a lot of guys think twice. The Rockies in October can be anywhere from beautiful to ruthless. And when they're ruthless, you'd better be equipped.

Anyone on here actually been in there from the BC side?

[brad ferris]

theres some good info in this thread.there's also some crap. i drew the early tag a few years back and spent 3 weekends preseason as well as 17 days in october.if someone here does draw a tag in the area feel free to drop me a line and i'll point you in the right direction.

[boxhitch]

Were you successful ?

theres some good info in this thread.there's also some crap. The intent of this thread is to sort out the good info
Maybe post up what you can to help ?