Puppy Advice

[Angel]

We are looking for a new addition to the family, no not a baby! We have been looking and researching for a long time but i am looking for a little imput from other hunters with dogs and puppies. We would like a dog that we can train to hunt with us and be loyal, trainable and good hunting/retreving instincts. Our top choices so far are GSP, Lab, Duck toller. We would preffer a breed that does not shed too much. Would also like a breed that is good with other animals and kids, also friendly with other dogs, dont like aggressive dogs. Any suggestions or advice would be great. Thanks


Any stories or personal experiences with training a dog to learn be a hunting companian would be great aswell.

[Brizz]

Rhodesian Ridgeback. Absolutely BEAUTIFUL dogs, GREAT with kids, short hair but still shed a little bit. They can be trained to be decent hunters, although not GREAT in freezing cold temperatures. They are easy to train and have such a great attitude.

My second choice would be a hungarian vizsla.

[porcupine]

Tollers have a double coat and shed a lot. That said, they meet the other requirements. Temperment can vary within all breeds and also be influenced by training and the owners behavior. Just look at pit bulls for example. The most important step would be to do research about the breeds first, find the correct fit, and then the breeder who produces dogs the closest to your requirements.
________
Chevrolet Biscayne specifications (http://www.chevy-wiki.com/wiki/Chevrolet_Biscayne)

[Islandeer]

I am partial to Labrador's and have three of them. They are loyal and family loving,lot's of great breeds though. Above all research the breeding,check out the sire and the dam. Are they nice and friendly? Are they birdy etc. Talk to people if you can within the bloodline. Great dogs start with the parants and are also influenced by their first 7 weeks. Learn about what a good breeder should be doing with his or her pups. These are the breeders you want to buy from.

Stay away fronm puppy mills. Good luck.

[Mr. Dean]

Most, if not all hunting dogs have double layer coats. Expect lottsa hair in the house. About the best for not shedding, is a poodle....


Hair and dogs go hand in hand. Just like feathers and birds. Both will drop and create messes.... Get past this, if its goin to be a hunter, the training and reinforcement will surpass the endeavours of house cleaning, BIG-TIME.

[tomahawk]

Try this link, you fill in what your needs are and it tells you what breeds suit your desires which takes away any emotion and later a surprise from the dog breed.

http://www.petnet.com.au/selectapet.asp?at=43

[Angel]

thanks for the input. I am not so worried about the shedding just it would be prefered if the shedding was less then plenty. We love GSP's because they have a great temperment and are low shedding but labs are tied to tops because as well they are so friendly and are easily trainable and love to please.

I have hears mixed reviews about the differnt lab breeds regarding intelligents ie- black labs are smart then yellow and chocolate labs aren't as intelligent. Is there any true merrit to the wise tale.??

[GoatGuy]

GSPs are definitely bird dogs; my buddy's a trials guy and I hunted over his two year ago - WOW, what a dog! However, I don't think I'd be taking one for big game. Too wired all the time. For what I enjoy my lab works well.

[tomahawk]

I've had a chocolate lab (male) who was very smart but very playful even at 4yrs old and a GSP (female) that was smart but matured faster than the lab. Lab shed more than my GSP.

[Islandeer]

Hmmm, I have had them all. Presently have 2 blacks and a yellow. the 9 month old yellow female i have now is the brightest lab i have had. Her mother who we have,is an amazing dog and is black. We just lost our old choclate of 13 years, " Mocha " who was a very sweet and loyal dog
but not the cleverest. In the field trial game the blacks are followed by the yellows with the choclates a distant third. There are more black labs used as drug dogs anf more yellow labs used as visually impaired dogs. Confused yet?!! IMO and from what i have seen and experianced it comes down to the bloodlines. The yellows are more cuddly .... :eek:

Checkout my site on flicca under Brentwoodgem to see our dogs.

[Busterbrown]

A Lab is a Lab is a Lab. Colour has nothing to do with temperment or birdiness or any other personality trait. Breeding and bloodlines do. Once you determine the breed you would like, Contact as many breeders as you can and spell out to them what the dog will be used for and you should then be able to find a dog that fits the bill.Good luck

[kinderdoggin]

I think the Lab is the best fit given your top choices and here's why:
Great temperaments, easy to train, gentle with other animals/kids and tolerant of childish behavior, playful, and above all, versatile. Hunt waterfowl or upland with the same dog. If you want to go into dog sports (hunt tests, agility, obedience or whatever) a Lab from working lines will do you well there too.
The downside to a lab? Hair - they shed a lot like any other double-coated breed but if they are kept as housepets the shedding is minimized. As with all breeds there can be a big difference between a well-bred Lab and a poorly bred Lab, so I will ditto the comments about finding the best breeder for your needs. Look for all the relevant health tests, meet the parent dogs if possible, and examine the guarantee/purchase contract before you commit to a puppy. Keep in mind that a lot of the better breeders have waiting lists and take reservations before the litter is even born.

Both GSP and Tollers are lovely dogs as well but nothing beats a Lab for versatility (there's a reason they are the most popular dog in North America!)

Cheers,
Erin

[Ben Fougere]

Have you checked out the Chesapeake Bay Retriever?

The chessie meets all of your requirements. They are great in and out of the water. The only thing I notice about them is that they can be a challenge to train.

I wouldn't rule out a Chesapeake.

[dutchie]

Chessies are by far the ULTIMATE waterfowlers dog... They are probably one of the most head strong dogs you can get as aswell.

Unless you have trained a few dogs, Chessies are tough dogs to train. You can ask any chessie owner about thier willingness to do what they want, not what you want. These are tough dogs but when they are broke, they are broke.

Ask Marc how great a Chessie is, and then ask him how long he trained Marshall to get were he is today. I have never seen Marshall in person but if you look at the pictures of Marshall, the conformation, the fact the he sits for pictures, you can tell that Marc has put 100's and 100's of hours into this duck retreiving demon!

I would stick to the Lab myself, easier to train and easier around the house from what I have seen and herd.

Also research the blood lines of the dog... Line breeding is the best way to get the EXACT dog with the temperment you want. Breeders that out cross, there is an undetermined nature of the dog because you have no clue of were the lines of the dog came from. also there is a new gene pool and the genetic make up could produce a poor quality dog. Learn to read the pedigree's and research the grandparents and especially the mother line of the litter. Both the Sire and the Dame are influential but the dame hold the pups for 63 days and that genetic make up is alot heavier then the sire. But they are both important!

just my 2 cents

dutchie

[Sasquatch]

I don't think you can go wrong with any of your 3 choices.

Labs are wonderful pets and can be great hunting partners from the right blood lines. GSPs may be the most versatile hunting dog out there and Tollers are pure joy to have in the family.

Out of the 3, my thought is a GSP may be the most work to handle and the Toller not the first choice for overall hunting as they are specifically bred for ducks.

If you want to eliminate shedding, you have to go with a wirehair.

[Angel]

Thanks for alll the imput some great advice. Has anyone here actually trained a dog for hunting? I am just curious how long it took until you could take the dog hunting with you and see some results in the dog. I have read up on Marc's training with marshall and thats impressive. We are looking for a dog that we can put alot of time and training into, the more time and work you put into the dogs training the better the result. We are definatly not afraid of the work involved. We want a dog trained so if you tell it to stay it will not move until you tell it to and if you call it it comes straight to you. There are also some great hunting training course out there I have read about. Any input would be great... thanks

[Buck]

I would suggest a Deutsch Drahthaar which i have.She is the first bird dog i have ever trained and it has been very succesful she is a very good retriever, pointer.They are serious hunting dogs and you need to put in the time.I commited to it and ran and trained her for the hunt tests that the VDD Group Canada sponser and it has been really worthwhile.Go to the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar website here . http://www.vdd-canada.ca/public/index.htm If you have any questions feel free to pm me and we can chat.

[Kasomor]

Thanks for alll the imput some great advice. Has anyone here actually trained a dog for hunting? I am just curious how long it took until you could take the dog hunting with you and see some results in the dog. I have read up on Marc's training with marshall and thats impressive. We are looking for a dog that we can put alot of time and training into, the more time and work you put into the dogs training the better the result. We are definatly not afraid of the work involved. We want a dog trained so if you tell it to stay it will not move until you tell it to and if you call it it comes straight to you. There are also some great hunting training course out there I have read about. Any input would be great... thanks

I'm fond of tollers for a versitile dog that can do it all. Upland hunting, water fowl, blood tracking, obedience, family pet, doesn't clear coffee tables with one swipe of their tails, etc.. Perhaps that is becuase I'm owned by two tollers but ask anyone on this list and the breed that they own will most likely be the breed that is recommended. Verstility is a toller's middle name plus they look good while doing what ever you ask of them too! :razz: There is one toller, two chessie, two flat coats and one golden that all have their AKC Master Hunter, Obedience Trial Championship and Conformation Championship. No lab has ever obtained that.

Best advice no matter what breed you choose is to meet the sire, dam, siblings and any other relatives that you can get a hold of and SEE them working in the venue that your interested in. If the dogs are not titled past a JH and hunting season is over get the breeder to pull a duck out of the freezer, set up a blind and handle mom to it. That will at least give you an idea of trainablity, desire to please, birdiness, etc..

As you say the more time you put into a dog with the right kind of training the more you'll get out of the dog. As to how long it takes to train a dog to be of use in a hunt...well that depends on what your expectations are of the dog. Is the dog just suppose to mark the fall, run out to it and go "here it is DAD!" or do you want a dog that is queit in the blind, steady, marks a triple or quad, swims 300 yards through a stick pond, perseveres on the crippled diving bird, worms its way into a blackberry thicket on it's belly or a dog that is somewhere in the middle? :smile:

There are so many variables with cover, terrain, hazards etc..in hunting situations especially if one hunts in numerous areas. It takes months and years of training to put all those senarios in front of a dog. IMO most dogs aren't considered seasoned hunters until they are 4 or 5 years old.

That said...This is my toller pups first season hunting. She is 17 months old now and she has been an asset hunting. I would have taken her out at 8 months but it wasn't hunting season. We had to settle with "pretend hunting", she easily earned her Junior Hunter at 9 months. She is somewhere in the middle of the above sceniaros, heading towards the latter. I bred her so she has been on birds since 5 weeks old. We do field work 4 or 5 times a week.

Cheers,
Kasomor
www.kasomor.com (http://www.kasomor.com)

[Busterbrown]

[quote=Kasomor;391069]I'm fond of tollers for a versitile dog that can do it all. Upland hunting, water fowl, blood tracking, obedience, family pet, doesn't clear coffee tables with one swipe of their tails, etc.. Perhaps that is becuase I'm owned by two tollers but ask anyone on this list and the breed that they own will most likely be the breed that is recommended. Verstility is a toller's middle name plus they look good while doing what ever you ask of them too! :razz: There is one toller, two chessie, two flat coats and one golden that all have their AKC Master Hunter, Obedience Trial Championship and Conformation Championship. No lab has ever obtained that

What does a confirmation title have to do with anything that happens in the field ? It is a judges opinion that the dog fits the Breed Standard. The ultimate test for a retriever is an Open All age stake at a sactioned field trial. Check trial results from any where in North America and you will not see any Tollers, Chessies or Flats. The results are dominated by Labs and Goldens. There is a reason for this.

[Kasomor]

What does a confirmation title have to do with anything that happens in the field ? It is a judges opinion that the dog fits the Breed Standard. The ultimate test for a retriever is an Open All age stake at a sactioned field trial. Check trial results from any where in North America and you will not see any Tollers, Chessies or Flats. The results are dominated by Labs and Goldens. There is a reason for this.[/quote]

Ah, we digress. I was refering to breed versitility. Having the brains to do what the breed was intended to do and actually looking like the breed it is suppose to be. Which the vast majority of labs and goldens don't have because of their dramatic breed split.

I agree FT are dominated by labs with goldens a distant second. Hey, the FT game was made for labs, their people and the labs are great at it.

However, well a conformation title is a number of judges opinions that a dog fits within the breed standard, form does equal function and a dog that is not stucturally correct will break down. How a dog is put together, their stucture, effects how they work.

Cheers,
Kasomor

[Busterbrown]

I would certainly like to see ather breeds compete at the highest level in the retriever world,however facts are they just do not.There is a reason for that. What is it about the Trial game that makes it special for labs and their owners? Is it the long retired marks trough difficult cover, or the very technical blinds involving diversions and difficult terrain. The reality is Open class retrievers are the most finelly tuned and trained retrievers in the game .Period. Please help me understand how a Retriever breed for field work instead of the show ring is going to break down. The opposite is the case as Field breed dogs tend to be taller, leaner and built to run through the cover they would expect to see in an average days hunt.

[Iron Glove]

As a very happy Toller owner, I of course would suggest a Toller but the shedding is a big issue. Tons of it all over the damn place, I eat and breath Toller fur. :frown:
Tollers do fit the non aggressive requirement ( as do the other breeds mentioned ) but tend to be aloof with other dogs - not aggresive, just not all that concerned. They also are not everyone's best buddy like a Golden or a Lab, you know the "Hi, I just met you and I love you all ready" thing. Tollers love their family, the rest takes a while.
Goldies and Labs are hard wired to please you, that's what centuries of breeding has accomplished. Tollers are more independant.
If size is a consideration, as was with us, a Toller is quite a bit smaller ( a "smaller Toller" - it rhymes ) than the Goldies and Labs.
Our daughter has a Lab and our Tulameen neighbours have two and they are great dogs. Asked Daughter ( who was a Vet Assistant and very familiar with breeds )why she didn't get a Toller instead of a Lab and she replied "Dad, I don't want a dog that is constantly trying to outhink me!"
If I was to choose a breed just for hunting, I'd opt for a Lab. For allround versatility, including agility, family pet, etc., I'd again choose a Toller.
Good luck in your choice - any of them will be lucky to have you as a family.

[Kasomor]

I would certainly like to see ather breeds compete at the highest level in the retriever world,however facts are they just do not.There is a reason for that. What is it about the Trial game that makes it special for labs and their owners? Is it the long retired marks trough difficult cover, or the very technical blinds involving diversions and difficult terrain. The reality is Open class retrievers are the most finelly tuned and trained retrievers in the game .Period. Please help me understand how a Retriever breed for field work instead of the show ring is going to break down. The opposite is the case as Field breed dogs tend to be taller, leaner and built to run through the cover they would expect to see in an average days hunt.

I didn't say a lab bred for field work instead of show is going to break down, your assuming that. You asked what a conformation title has to do with anything that happens in the field.

AND I explained, it's in the conformation ring that you get multiple judges opinions as to the dog’s structure and whether it is correct. Correct structure equals soundness in body which keeps a dog working in the field.

Hey if you think your field bred lab has correct structure put it in the show ring. It would be great to see something besides the short legged, fat sausages, which are winded going around the ring. ;)

I wish there wasn't a split in labs but for some reason it has been allowed to happen.

For what it's worth, I hunt with an amazing registered, MH, field bred lab who has an uncanny resemblance to a black greyhound. I wouldn't change anything about her.

I won't be adding anything more to this since are WAY off topic.

Cheers,
Kasomor

[Busterbrown]

Hey if you think your field bred lab has correct structure put it in the show ring.

Better yet, bring you toller to a field trial.We are always more than willing to have new handlers and dogs

[Rainkist]

Busterbrown...Do you know why there is a split in the lab breed?

I have always been curious to what happened there.

[Marc]

OK this thread has gone off track in a big way.

Yes chessies make great hunting dogs. They do shed hair, and can be harder to train then other types of retrievers. They are probably one of the smartest and most determined of all the retrievers making them hard to train for field trials and other hunt test. They think for themselves a lot and it takes a lot of training to get them to do otherwise.

I put a lot, and I mean a lot, of training into Marshall this spring/summer to get him ready for his JH and hunting this fall. This is my first dog that I've seriously attempted and put a title on as the last dogs I hunted with were just for that, hunting.

Marshall has lots of potential but he's nowhere near 100%. He does what he's told and trained to do the majority of the time but he's not 100% at this stage.. He's messed up a couple of times costing me a chance at birds but it's expected at this level of training for his first year of hunting. He's only lost one bird this fall and that's because I didn't see exactly where it fell and it was opening day so his experience was pretty green, he hasn't lost one since.

He sits, marks birds, retrieves them to hand and gets back in the sit/lay position depending on the circumstances. In the layout boat he now retrieves to hand, then gets back into his position in the boat and lies down.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Marshall_and_I_side_on_.jpg



If this is the first dog you plan to train for hunting then I recommend one of the other breed of dogs. Most trainers don't recommend a Chesapeake as a first dog for training as they take a different approach an patience to train.

Don't get me wrong, once a chessie learns something he never forgets it, and it will be hard to beat a chessie for waterfowling in any type of environment.

I've had 3 labs before I decided to get a Chesapeake and the chessies are a totally different type of dog for training. Chesapeakes have so much more energy and stamina, which needs a lot, and I mean a lot, of exercise to keep them happy. A bored dog is a dog that will get himself into mischief. Luckily I only live 15 minutes from the bay where I can walk and swim him.

Hope this information helps, if this doesn't cover it all don't hesitate to contact me again in PM or on here.

Marc.

[Busterbrown]

Busterbrown...Do you know why there is a split in the lab breed?

I have always been curious to what happened there.

I can only assume that the split being refered to is one of show breeding verses field breeding. Dogs that are breed for show are short, stocky and have tend to have a blocky looking head. Field breed Labs tend to be taller, leaner and more suited to run with speed over cover and are more likely to be higher energy . When you breed a tall, lean high energy male to a tall , lean high energy bitch it is no surprise as to the disposition of the pups.Same applies to show bread labs. A short stocky lab bread to a short stocky lab gives you those traits in the pups. Hope that helps

[Islandeer]

More lab stuff .. please check out Kerry Brook Kennels website. They are dual purpuse lab breeders,meaning that their dogs excell in the show ring and the field work. My Gem is from there, and is what I think is the near perfect blend. Remember if the blood is good so will your pup be.

I can attest to Marc's chessie, he is a beaut!! I helped him get the dog down a hill to a test while Marc's knee was mending, lot's of dog!!!

Nice picture od Marshal in the boat Marc, the guy beside him kinda ruined it though ... :tongue:

[dryflyguy57]

Wheaton Terriers all the way