Bird Dog Training Tips

[Ben Fougere]

I'm looking for everyones input on how to train a bird dog. I've recently bought a Chesapeake Bay Retriever and am enjoying how quick he picks up commands. I need to learn more about what commands and training people are using out there. I hope to start a thread on the steps a person must undergo to produce the ultimate retriever. Also, I was hoping see who has a chesapeake on this site, as I've heard that their training can differ from that of a lab.

I want to schedule some training time with anyone who wants to meet up. I live in quesnel and am willing to travel and far south as 100 mile house and as far northwest as Vanderhoof.

[Jimbo]

Retriever training has it's ups and downs, but it is all worthwhile when you see them catch on and progress through the steps. Don't know how much dog training experience you have, but rather than training by consensus here, pick up a retriever training DVD for a view of the finished product and a full description of the various steps.
Lots of experienced dog guys on here to help out with details and tips.


I even heard of a guy on here with one o' them curly brown dogs !!:p

[Dirty]

Time, that is all.

[Marc]

The best advice is to try and hook up with a retriever club in your area if you have any. Try talking to the breeder and see if they know of any of their dogs going to a hunting family and see if maybe one of them can help you out.

You want to start your puppy off with basic obedience right from the start. The dog needs to understand what sit, stay, down, come means before you can move on.

Try and get some wings to entice the dog. Toss them for him and let him play with them. Don't allow him to chew them up or eat them. I usually freeze some from the fall so I'm good for training for the winter. Even better freeze a few whole birds for training.

Pick up some training bumpers, stay away from orange ones for now. It may be easier for you to see them but the dogs can't see them.

The majority of my training has been done with the book "The 10 minute retriever." It's based on that a dogs attention span for learning is roughly 10 minutes long.

[Ben Fougere]

I contacted the Prince George retrievers club, but they didn't seem to want to help. I am willing to travel to learn from people with experience, but the club member said that I was too far away. Was thinking about trying to spark some interest in the locals here in Quesnel.

Good idea about checking with the breeder and finding puppies that went to hunting families. I think that one of them or at least the litter before ours went to Vanderhoof.

Quesnel doesn't seem to have the marshes that those of you have on the coast. Were should I look to begin some duck or goose hunting?

Guess I'll have to go and get a white bumper? I bought some orange bumpers from wholesale sports in Kamloops and thought they would be enough. I'll be getting that book you recommend Marc. I could use all the help I can get.

I read your post about Marshall and how he's coming along. I enjoyed reading about his progress. Kingston (Our Chessie) is coming along fairly close to Marshall. It's amazing how smart Kingston is as to how quickly he is picking commands and hand signals up. I'll try and post some photos soon.

I also would like to add that I've read about chessies needing to be trained by their owner and it doesn't seem the case with Marshall. Marc, would you say that in Marshall's case he learns from other trainers? If so, I think that I may look into finding a trainer in quesnel.

[Marc]

I also would like to add that I've read about Chessies needing to be trained by their owner and it doesn't seem the case with Marshall. Marc, would you say that in Marshall's case he learns from other trainers? If so, I think that I may look into finding a trainer in quesnel.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Marshall was trained by me with the help of a few friends from time to time who tossed some bumpers or birds for me. Marshall was never sent to someone to train so I'm not sure where you got that from. If you are asking will Marshall listen to someone else as far as commands go, well, if you have food or have something for him to retrieve he’ll do pretty much anything you want him too. He’s extremely food motivated which helps in getting him to do what you want to do starting off. He loves to retrieve and once he learns something he remembers it very well.

If this is your first dog then I would definitely suggest that you contact someone who has dealt with training retrievers and even better someone who's trained Chessies. You need to set your dog up for success. It’s easier to correct a mistake while he’s young then to try and undo it later. This is the learning time for the puppy and the most crucial stage to get him crazy over duck hunting.

You'll probably want to pick up more then just one training bumper. They tend to get destroyed if your dog finds it without you knowing. They love chewing them.

[Kasomor]

I'm looking for everyones input on how to train a bird dog. I've recently bought a Chesapeake Bay Retriever and am enjoying how quick he picks up commands. I need to learn more about what commands and training people are using out there.

Basic obedience is the most important thing, along with love of the duck and fun retrieves up to 6 to 8 months old. Anything written by James Spencer should suit you. "Training Retrievers for Marshes and Meadows" is great for the novice and intermediate trainer. Jim Dobbs on-line library is another fine resource. Then there is the Lardy CD's and books but unless you are really keen they would be information overload at this point.

Hooking up with other like-minded trainers would be great too.
I remember when I first got started 6 years ago with another minority retriever, it was like pulling teeth to get anyone to help me get started!

Pacific Rim Hunt Retriever Club on Van Isl. is great for welcoming newbies as is the Okanagan Retriever Club.

Have fun,
Kasomor

[Islandeer]

Spend as much time as possible with your dog. Let it experiance diversity in enviornment as well as people and dogs. As said get it fired up on wings and live birds. DO obediance and be fussy with it. Let your Chessie understand that it is in your pack, in the bottom of the food chain. So it waits for everything,food,doorways, etc. Marc can attest to the importance of this. Get him used to you handeling his food, take it away while he is eating and tell him to knock it off if he gets vocal. Be fair to your dog,he can't be reprimanded for something he doesn't understand.

As for training programs I recently completed a seminar with the famous Evan Graham. His Smartwork system is excellant,it is all you need to train your dog.

[Ben Fougere]

[quote=Marc;366440]I'm not sure what you mean here. Marshall was trained by me with the help of a few friends from time to time who tossed some bumpers or birds for me. Marshall was never sent to someone to train so I'm not sure where you got that from.quote]

I must have misread your posts from page 11 of Marshall's Progress. You posted pictures of Marshall at Black Creek with his "handlers" Lauren and Rowan. I must have assumed that they were trainers. You had also referred to being away from Marshall for a while so I guess that I assumed that he was being trained.

I have much to learn. I would like to attend one of these events, like the one at black creek. Does anyone have a link to the upcoming events? One day I would like to enter Kingston into these events if time and funding allows.

Had Kingston out in the snow for his first time today. It's amazing at how attentive he is to all the smells under the snow. He was out for about and hour and got quite wet with no signs of being cold. You could sure feel the oil from his coat doing it's job.

[Ben Fougere]

haha.

Guess I need to learn how to qoute. Will post photos of Kingston soon.

[bruin]

I don't have a tonne of experienced, only trained one lab. He died at 10 this year and was a great dog and a wonderful retriever (Biased!)
If I were to give you any tips that worked for me (certainly not the only way) I would say don't motivate with food, use your praise as his motivation. As in your excitement and positive attitude when he does something right (especially when he is young). A yellow female my family had lost interest in retrieving after a couple of years when she wasn't getting rewarded with food anymore.
And also be consistent with your commands. I noticed that I fell into the habit of talking to my lab like a person sometimes and I think that confused him.
The way I learned about dog training was through a number of books and I just extracted the ideas that made sense to me.

[Marc]

I must have misread your posts from page 11 of Marshall's Progress. You posted pictures of Marshall at Black Creek with his "handlers" Lauren and Rowan. I must have assumed that they were trainers. You had also referred to being away from Marshall for a while so I guess that I assumed that he was being trained.

I have much to learn. I would like to attend one of these events, like the one at black creek. Does anyone have a link to the upcoming events? One day I would like to enter Kingston into these events if time and funding allows.


That was a dog show with professional handlers. They take the dog in the ring, make him walk, and trot in front of the judge. The judge then checks the dog’s teeth, muscle tone, testicles (makes sure there are two) and coat. Then the dog is compared to the rest of the dogs in the ring of the same breed. They judge them on physical appearance, muscle tone, coat, and demeanour. This has more to do with confirmation and breed standards. This has nothing to do with training a dog for hunting except for discipline and obedience. If a dog is a loose cannon in the ring chances are he won’t win his class.

At one point I totally stopped training the dog for retrieving and concentrated on getting him to show his teeth.The bugger wasn’t showing his teeth to the judges and he was taking second place as the judge can’t give him first without confirming that the dog doesn’t have an under bight.

Some people would say that Chessies can be a stubborn lot :lol:. Marshall's weakness was food so I'd keep a bowl of treats next to the computer. Every time he came over for a treat I'd make him show his teeth first, if he didn't show his teeth he didn't get a treat, and then it clicked in his head that if he showed his teeth, as much as he didn't like it, he got a treat. Then he started showing his teeth for me everytime. Once he started showing his teeth he won every time he went into the ring.

Get your dog into puppy obedience, even though Marshall knew how to do everything they were planning to teach and more at this stage it did him a world of good to be around other dogs and distractions. Socialize your dog around other people and other dogs.

[Ben Fougere]

I would like to enter Kingston into the ring to get judged one day. Is there a minimum age that he has to be before he can enter a ring and be judged? Who should I contact to get some more information about this?

Thanks bruin for the advice. I have seen that Kingston can be motivated by food. I noticed that sometimes he was expecting a treat and so I've started training half and half. I am finding that he is getting used to not having a treat everytime.

What commands are people using out there? (This question is for all dog owners/trainers) I have used a few and made up a few of my own, but would like some other input. I will get to the books and dvd's soon, hopefully once our upstairs renos are complete.

I have started Kingston on a few commands and some have hand signals..

Sit
Down=hand high in air
Stay=hand out as stop
Wait=hand out as stop
Come=hand gesture come and pat leg
Stop=hand out as stop (Kingston will stop what he is doing and go into sit position)
Give
Hold (hand under mouth and rubbing chest)
Up=touch waist
Heel (this one is the HARDEST one to teach him)

I have also started my own whistling commands

1 whistle=stop
2 whistles=follow hand signal (point in direction of retrieve/that I want dog to go)
3 whistles=come

Any comments on what I may be doing right OR wrong are much appreciated.

[Ben Fougere]

Here are some photos of Toad Hollow's Kingston.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Picture_290.jpg


http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/Picture_387.jpg

Spoiled rotten with toys!

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSCN2277.JPG

[Kasomor]

I would like to enter Kingston into the ring to get judged one day. Is there a minimum age that he has to be before he can enter a ring and be judged? Who should I contact to get some more information about this?


Dogs need to be over 6 months old before they can be entered in a CKC conformation show. Check out the B.C. Canuck Dog website for upcoming shows, handling classes..... hunt tests, etc... http://bc.canuckdogs.com/ I also see that the tentative shcedule is up for 2009 for field tests. http://www.bcretrievernews.ca/schedule.htm

Whistles;
There needs to be a difference in style for each whistle command. Not sure if your doing this or just using three whistle blasts for come in and one whistle blast for sit. One whistle blast for sit is the usual, but your dog will end up being confused if your using same blast for come in. Especially at a distance when sound takes longer to travel.

I play "come-in-come-in" on the whistle for here.

When the dog is within 5 feet or so of the bird on a blind, a fast "toot-toot-toot-toot" means "your on it, slow down, there it is.

I have never heard anyone use a whistle for casting. O.K. there are exceptions like when you want and angle come in but basically there is never a whistle with a cast.

You blow the sit whistle, the dog sits looking at you and waiting for your cast/ and voice, it then carry's on until it comes to the bird or you blow another sit whistle.

What books are you reading? Should say all this in them.

As far as food treats while field training. Have you ever seen a dog that spits the bird, 'cause now dads going to give me a treat? Not a thing you want to start. The retrieve is the reward or another toss of the bumper. Obedience work is another story, treat all you want to get the desired outcome.

My dogs don't even want to be touched when they are working they just want me to shoot another duck!

Kasomor

[Ben Fougere]

Found some great videos on the Gun Dog website. There are some great tips for training your retriever here.

http://www.gundogmag.com/index.html

[Marc]

There is lots of resources out there for training your dog the key is consistency. Always use the same command for fetch, come, heel, sit. Doesn't have to be those words but you and your family have to be consistent with them. Down means lay down. You don't use this command if the dog is jumping up on you all this does is confuse the dog. Off! is what I use for my dog, just little things like that.

Dogs don't understand phrases either they hear key words for example we hear "you want to go for a walk?" a dog hears "bla bla bla bla bla bla bla walk? or bla bla treat? blah blan kennel. They know the key words and react on that.

[Ben Fougere]

Teaching Kingston the "off" command was hard at first. I was always saying "down," but I think that the household has it figured out.

We're having issues with him pulling on leash when we start our walks. After a while, I've been able to get him to heel fairly steadily, but he is still getting distracted from everything he smells.

Does anyone have any pointers on how to teach the heel command?

[Busterbrown]

Dogs need to be over 6 months old before they can be entered in a CKC conformation show. Check out the B.C. Canuck Dog website for upcoming shows, handling classes..... hunt tests, etc... http://bc.canuckdogs.com/ I also see that the tentative shcedule is up for 2009 for field tests. http://www.bcretrievernews.ca/schedule.htm

Whistles;
There needs to be a difference in style for each whistle command. Not sure if your doing this or just using three whistle blasts for come in and one whistle blast for sit. One whistle blast for sit is the usual, but your dog will end up being confused if your using same blast for come in. Especially at a distance when sound takes longer to travel.

I play "come-in-come-in" on the whistle for here.

When the dog is within 5 feet or so of the bird on a blind, a fast "toot-toot-toot-toot" means "your on it, slow down, there it is.

I have never heard anyone use a whistle for casting. O.K. there are exceptions like when you want and angle come in but basically there is never a whistle with a cast.

You blow the sit whistle, the dog sits looking at you and waiting for your cast/ and voice, it then carry's on until it comes to the bird or you blow another sit whistle.

What books are you reading? Should say all this in them.

As far as food treats while field training. Have you ever seen a dog that spits the bird, 'cause now dads going to give me a treat? Not a thing you want to start. The retrieve is the reward or another toss of the bumper. Obedience work is another story, treat all you want to get the desired outcome.

My dogs don't even want to be touched when they are working they just want me to shoot another duck!

Kasomor

Feeding a dog in the field has nothing to do with him dropping a bird. Force training your dog does. Until you force train a working retriever you will never have a built dog. It is the foundation for everything that is to follow. This includes teaching a dog to consistantly deliver to hand ,all casting drills as well as teaching your dog to run blinds. The force program teaches a dog how to turn off pressure which gives you a tool to make corrections,sometimes at long distances. Force traing a dog should never be attempted just by reading a book as many have suggested, as no two dogs react the same. The help of an experienced trainer is invaluable during the process. Force traing starts with the hold then to the ear pinch, then to picking up from the ground with ear pinch. When a dog has been collar conditioned he is then forced to the pile. Again the force to the pile teaches a dog how to relieve pressure. hope this helps

[Ben Fougere]

There is a good video on force training on the gundog website. Looks like a good tool to teach your dog. The trainer uses a wooden dowel at first so that the dog will not associate force breaking with birds.

Busterbrown, is the ear pinch you refer to a method in force training? I've heard that there are a few others like; using a choke collar or foot squeeze. I would like to hear more about this force program you speak of. How many different things can be taught to a dog using force training? Do you mean that by force training a dog can learn how to turn pressure off? What types of pressure does he turn off? And, what is forcing to the pile? I'm quite new to the idea of training a retriever/bird dog and can use all the pointers, advice, and knowledge anyone has to offer.

[Kasomor]

Feeding a dog in the field has nothing to do with him dropping a bird. Force training your dog does. Until you force train a working retriever you will never have a built dog.

I agree that FF and e-collars are the way to go for a reliable retreive to hand. I don't believe most meat dogs are FF or run on a collar though.

I have seen numerous times, with numerous owners who are new to the retreiver training game, treat their dog with food in the field when the dog has returned with the bumper/bird and the dog spits the bird in anticipation of the food reward. Rewarding a retriever in the field with food in not a habit a newby wants to start because YES, until their owner chooses to FF the food treat WILL make the dog drop the bird.

Kasomor
(With dogs who are running at the SH level, hunt numerous X per week, are FF and run on a collar :smile:)

[Marc]

I don't use food in the field for training but starting off in the house it was a great motivation tool to get him to figure out what I was looking for. I usually bring some chicken jerkey with me out in the boat and give him a chew in between retrieves as a source of energy and being a good dog.

I tried feeding a duck to my dog one night skinned and he wouldn't eat it. I'm not sure if it's because he's been trained to not mangle birds that he hesitates from eating it. My 12 year old male lab was more then willing to make a meal out of it and I went to the freezer for some frozen raw chicken and bone that the chessie was used to eating.

I don't pretend to be a pro at training dogs this is my 4th retriever and the first dog that I'm working titles on. The other 3 were just hunting dogs never bothered with the titles I was more interested in hunting ducks wich the dogs did everything I asked of them and more.

Everyone has to start somewhere and you can talk with a half dozen trainers and get a half dozen different answers you have to decide what you think is the right way or the wrong way but have to be open to different options if what you're trying isn't working for you or your dog..

Hoping to start working towards Marshall's SH title this winter, spring, and summer. Right now it's duck season and we're doing what we enjoy the most, shooting and retrieving ducks. To me that's what it's all about. The training and hunt test are just off season things to keep the dog and I in shape and hone his hunting skills until the next season comes around.

Rome wasn't built in a day.:biggrin:

Sorry to take away from your thread Whiley, you have a good looking dog there and seem to be on the right track. Just a word of advice, I know it's a Chesapeake but he's only a pup and hasn't developed his thick wiry coat yet to keep him warm. You may not want to swim him now that the temperatures are dropping below zero. He's a dog and wants to retrieve but he's probably not really enjoying the cold water at this stage. Just something to think about. There is lots you can do on land waiting for warmer weather to do water work before next fall. Hell my chessie didn't start to swim until he was 7 1/2 months of age. Now you can't stop him.

Good luck with your dog.It's to bad you werent closer to the island lots of great people over here with the salt chuck retriever club that would make your training and life so much easier.

Marc.

[Ben Fougere]

I'm trying not to let Kingston in the water at this time of year, but he is always running into the river on his own. We're fortunate enough to live only a stones throw away from the quesnel river and so water is an everyday thing for Kingston. I think that he'll be a great water dog seen as he has been swimming in the river since we got him in september.

I would like to hear more about all the force training methods that are out there. One day it sounds like I might have to give it a chance.

I dread that I may have done something I wasn't supposed to do with a retriever, a chessie retriever that is. Since we got Kingston we've done two things with him:

1) We would throw sticks for him in and out of the water. More often then not, when a stick was thrown in the water, he would take the stick away and not bring it to me. I was later warned that you should never do water retrieves the dogs first year. If I've damaged something in the training process, is there anyway to redeem myself? It's our first hunting dog and I know that I'll make mistakes and learn from then, but it's the mistakes that are hard to correct that I'm worried about.

2) I was walking him off leash down at the river from the first day we got Kingston. Then, one day, when we were in puppy kindergarten we were told to never let our dog off leash. They said he has to "earn" his off leash time. But the catch for me is...if he's going to be a retriever doesn't he need his off leash time? Now, with the dilemna of an off leash dog, I still have the dilemna of a dog that still will not heel.

I am looking for advice on teaching the heel command. Any pointers?

[Kasomor]

1) We would throw sticks for him in and out of the water. More often then not, when a stick was thrown in the water, he would take the stick away and not bring it to me. I was later warned that you should never do water retrieves the dogs first year. If I've damaged something in the training process, is there anyway to redeem myself? It's our first hunting dog and I know that I'll make mistakes and learn from then, but it's the mistakes that are hard to correct that I'm worried about.

2) I was walking him off leash down at the river from the first day we got Kingston. Then, one day, when we were in puppy kindergarten we were told to never let our dog off leash. They said he has to "earn" his off leash time. But the catch for me is...if he's going to be a retriever doesn't he need his off leash time? Now, with the dilemna of an off leash dog, I still have the dilemna of a dog that still will not heel.

I am looking for advice on teaching the heel command. Any pointers?

It is natural to make mistakes as you go along with any dog. Each dog is different so what is right for one dog won't be right for the next.

1. "should never do water retrieves the dogs first year". That's a new one I've never heard. I would encourage wading/fun retrieves in the water from the minute that they show an interest in going in. As was said, you need to be careful with a young dog when the weather gets cold to not have them in it for extended periods and YOU stop before the DOG stops. Dogs do get hypothermia and can die from it.

That said, early retrieves in the water should be square entries in open water so he will return squarely to you. Choose your spot carefully too. Try to find a point of land which to send Kingston off of into the water. The point will also be the place he exits naturally. Meet him directly at the waters edge as he is coming out, bend down with lots of encouragement to come to you so he doesn't flair. Don't be too quick to take the stick from him either. Hold on to him, fluff him up and tell him what a great guy he is... The throws don't have to be long. Eight or ten feet, since your trying to teaching him to exit at you not retrieve. At this time of the year two retrieves in the water in a row is plenty. One of the hardest things to do in training retrievers is to stop and not just do one more. End on success.

I don't throw anything except bumpers or birds for my dogs outside. Bumpers and birds are not a toy. I want my dog to know that those items have to be brought back to me. Sticks can create a grey area. Dogs use them as a toy 'cause they are just lying around on the ground waiting to be chewed on :) JMO

2.Teaching heel.
There are tons of methods and opinions out there, you need to find the one that works for you and your dog.

Don't expect to go for a walk and actually go anywhere with Kingston while you are teaching heel. Pick somewhere that has no distractions to train. Expect to go in a lot of circles and squares, back and forth... Expect this to take some weeks or months, depending on how consistent you are and how much time you put into it, before he can actually go on a control walk. By controlled walk I mean heel position, for an hour, with no pulling, loose leash, no sniff, no pee.

My way to teach heel is using a three foot leash so the leash is slack but I don't have to deal with the usual 6 foot leash and the dog rarely gets out of position. I use tiny, high value, easy to swallow treats, held in my left hand just above nose level, taking as many steps as I can get with the dog staying in position, ( may be only 2, may be 6 and work up from there), treat the dog BEFORE he moves out of heel postion. Talk to him, lots of praise along the way. I've also done an about turn or a quick change of direction when the dog gets out of postion so the dog learns to pay attention to were I am. Once they are about 6 months old I start using a pinch collar. Once they are about 7 months old they are also e-collar conditioned.

My dogs get tons of off leash time so they can blow off steam and explore. I'm with you, he's a retriever he needs to explore and check out the world!

Since you've already gone to PK, if there is a beginner competition obedience class in your town go to it, even if your not interested in competeing. It will be $$ well spent. At least half the class time will be spent on teaching heeling. Competitive obedience people have heeling down to a science:biggrin:.
IMO Puppy Kindergarten is for socialization and to get your dog off on the right start but they learn tons in a competitive class and so will you.

Kasomor

[Busterbrown]

[quote=Wiley Coyote;369738

Busterbrown, is the ear pinch you refer to a method in force training? I've heard that there are a few others like; using a choke collar or foot squeeze. I would like to hear more about this force program you speak of. How many different things can be taught to a dog using force training? Do you mean that by force training a dog can learn how to turn pressure off? What types of pressure does he turn off? And, what is forcing to the pile? I'm quite new to the idea of training a retriever/bird dog and can use all the pointers, advice, and knowledge anyone has to offer.[/quote]

The ear pinch is the current standard for force training a working retriever. Some pros use a table to do this and may combine it with a toe pinch. A previous post claims that he forces a puppy at 6 months old however age has NOTHING to do with determining when to FF.Your puppy must have all his adult teeth in place before you begin to ensure that he is not having any mouth discomfort before forcing him to hold a bumper. We currently have four retrievers that we compete in sanctioned field trials with and they all were forced at a different age.One was 6 months old and another was not ready until 9 months old.
The dog learns that when he grabs the bumper the discomfort of the ear pinch goes away.Over a period of many sessions the dog will begin to grab the bumper as soon as you grab his ear.
The force to the pile is a program where once the dog is collar conditioned you would send your dog to a pile of bumpers with a very small nick of the e-collar.When the dog picks up the bumper the nick is stopped.The dog quickly learns that when sent he is to get to the pile asap and the discomfort goes away.The principle of the FF is to teach a dog to perform a given task on comand.This could be anything from picking up a bird to taking a line given to him on a blind.
There are many positions on continueing training during the FF program.Some pros believe that you stop all formal training during the FF and others believe that continueing with marks is ok as it gives the dog a chance to "blow off some steam". I have always continued with the training as it gives your dog some relief from the monotony of the FF
I have always forced our dogs withn a wooden dowel wraped in duct tape.This is easy for them to grab and hold on to. I would be careful with using birds with a young dog as you are still trying to develope good hold habits.Hope this helps

[Ben Fougere]

Thanks Kasomor and Buster for your input I appreciate the info. I think that I'll have to try all the FF program and I've always been interested in trying the pinch collar. Any input on wether a pinch collar is better than a regular choke chain?

I had a problem with Kingston today on our walk. I've decided to keep him away from the water for a while. We were in a field and I threw a bumper for him. Most objects he tends to bring back towards me. This time, he picked the bumper up and started trotting away with it. Not sure if this is a bad sign in a retriever. He's been good retrieving his toys in the house, but this was different. Not sure if it was because the bumper was fairly new to him or if it was my mistake of putting duck scent on the bumper when I first got him months ago. I didn't know as much as I know now and hindsight is always 20/20, right? Anyone have any comments on this episode?

Keep the ideas coming! I'm lovin' the input.

[Buck]

If your interested in FF your dog get Evan Grahams Smartfetch DVD it is all you will need.

[Ben Fougere]

Thanks for the advice Buck, I'll check that DVD out.

I had an idea for training my dog in FF in the house. I was thinking about trying a toy that we have which Kingston likes a lot. It's a fleece braided bone. I figure, if I start using this now to teach him to fetch, hold and release an object, he might learn these skills early in his development without the risk of turning him off holding objects. I don't want to FF If his puppy teeth are still hanging around, but I was thinking that this way there could be no harm in practising these skillls. I figure the soft fleece may be enough for him to want to hold onto the object, which could enforce the three commands of fetch, hold, and release. Does anyone agree or disagree with this theory?

Is there a way to tell when a puppy has lost all their puppy teeth?

Here is a photo of Kingston's fleece braided bone.

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/medium/DSCN2430.JPG

[Kasomor]

Thanks Kasomor and Buster for your input I appreciate the info. I think that I'll have to try all the FF program and I've always been interested in trying the pinch collar. Any input on wether a pinch collar is better than a regular choke chain?

I had a problem with Kingston today on our walk. I've decided to keep him away from the water for a while. We were in a field and I threw a bumper for him. Most objects he tends to bring back towards me. This time, he picked the bumper up and started trotting away with it. Not sure if this is a bad sign in a retriever. He's been good retrieving his toys in the house, but this was different. Not sure if it was because the bumper was fairly new to him or if it was my mistake of putting duck scent on the bumper when I first got him months ago. I didn't know as much as I know now and hindsight is always 20/20, right? Anyone have any comments on this episode?

Keep the ideas coming! I'm lovin' the input.

I prefer the pinch collar for training before a dog is e-collar conditioned. Like any training tool it can be abused in the wrong hands just like an e-collar or a choke. Try to find someone who knows how to use them to teach you. I also never run my dogs with either a choke or a pinch collar on. There is too much chance that the collar will get hung up on something. They go naked or wear a tight e-collar.

If I could get the same response with a flat collar I would use a flat. If a flat works for your dog then use it. You're at the teaching stage with Kingston so all he needs is a flat at the moment. I see the other collars as reenforcement for once the dog knows what's going on.

Super common for a pup to want to take off with the bumper and not come to you. Not bringing the bumper back to you is a recall issue not a retrieve issue.

Work on recall with Kingston on a 25' to 50' long-line attached to a flat-collar:smile: , (you don't want him self-correcting himself when stepping on the line with either a pinch or a choke) then progress over time to him retrieving on a long-line. Don't haul him in. "Here", with as few tugs on the line as needed to get him to you. If the rope gets away from you and Kingston takes off, walk calmly and quietly to the end of the line, pick it up and proceed with the tugs and "here." If he drops the bumper, carry on with the tugs telling him here. He'll clue in after repetitions to hold onto the bumper and come to you. Again don't be too quick to take the bumper from him if he's got a grip on it. Fluff him up, tell him what a great pup he is etc.. then take it from him.

You can also try running away or swinging another bumper to get him back to you.

I never call a pup to me if I don't believe 100% that he will come. If he gives me the paw I've just taught him when I say "here" to ignore me. The long-line prevents that.

There are a number of trainers who always train a pup on a 6 foot or so line, which is dragged behind pup, for the majority of the pups early work until they are steady.

Duck scent on the bumpers is great! So are taped wings on the bumper ...unless he tries to eat them!

Have fun,
Kasomor

[bopper]

Hi Wiley: I'll be glad to offer you some help with your dog..........I worked as a professional trainer until retiring three years ago; I specialized in retrievers but worked with other breeds as well. I did the training on 13 dogs that became Field Trial Champions, and have conducted training seminars for various clubs. Send me a PM with your questions and I'll be glad to help....
Bopper

[Kasomor]

Hi Wiley: I'll be glad to offer you some help with your dog..........I worked as a professional trainer until retiring three years ago; I specialized in retrievers but worked with other breeds as well. I did the training on 13 dogs that became Field Trial Champions, and have conducted training seminars for various clubs. Send me a PM with your questions and I'll be glad to help....
Bopper

Hey Bopper,
Why go private? There has been 491 views on this subject so people are interested in this line.

Please keep it on the list. I, for one, am always interested in learning more.

And speaking of conducting training seminars...I am the Field Chair for the BCARC. I'm interested in more information about your seminars.

Cheers,
Kasomor

[hannibal]

I had a Vizsla about 10 years ago and I used to work him quite alot. The thing I remember most about training was:
-work is work, no messing around
-1/2 work=1/2 play time
-always end on fun note, work first then lust play catch and run around for fun
- a happy dog is a good working dog.
I also remember that dog taking alot of my time. The first couple of years we had him I worked and walked him 1-2 hours a day, but it paid off, that dog had game. After 3 years or so it was regular walks and fun during the week and training/ hunting on weekends. Don't let others in your house spoil the dog, I spend more time trying to keep family members in line than the actual dog.

[Ben Fougere]

Thanks for your input Hannibal. I too seem to be taking the 1/2 work=1/2 play time approach. I usually take Kingston for an hour to two hour walk each day. When we are out walking I try to integrate different training into his walk. We will usually practise various training lessons on his walks like:

1) Heel on leash
2) Stop/Sit command, both on and off leash
3) Come command
4) Stay/wait command
5) Fetch command

I also let Kingston have his own time out on our walks as well. He's always interested in checking out new terrain or something new that wasn't there on our last walk.

I would have to agree with Kasomor, Bopper. I was hoping to keep this thread open to all viewing. I am learning a lot from everyone here and am sure that others can learn from this thread as well. Thank you Bopper for you interest in this thread. Do you have any suggetions on how to train a retriever?

One question to Kasomor and Bopper; Where might I attend a training seminar? Were can I find out about upcoming training seminars?

[bopper]

To Kasomor and Wiley.....if anyone is interested in hosting a training seminar, please send me a PM and I'll give you details of the program.
Bopper

[Ben Fougere]

What do I have to do to host a training seminar?

I'm interested, but I'd have to find somewhere to hold the seminar. Are the seminars just for dog owners or can they bring their dogs as well?

[bopper]

Hi: My seminars are for owners AND their dogs.......I have sent you a PM....
Bopper

[Ben Fougere]

Does anyone have anymore training tips for retrievers?

[Ben Fougere]

I am thinking about getting an e-collar for Kingston. Does anyone have a favourite brand of collar to use? Where might I find info on how to train a retriever using an e-collar?

[Tarp Man]

My dad took in a Chocolate Lab pup that had been mistreated. This dog had no manners and HUGE energy. It took dad a good 6 weeks to get him trained and under control. The first step was establishing who was boss, and commands were not optional. He also took him to an obedience class right away. The trainer there made a big point of training the owners as much or more than the dogs. This was the key to success, they said. I have seen that to be the truth for sure. Train the owners, then train the dog. Now his lab is a great dog, and one of the most obedient, high-energy dogs I know.

W.C. it sounds like you have been working really hard at this. Keep up the good work, and you and your dog will reap the benefits. I have seen good and bad field dogs, and a good field dog will bring you tons of bird hunting friends for sure!

[dutchie]

For E-collars when i get my dog I am going to get a Tri-tronics Pro100 EXP or Pro200 EXP. I plan on getting a few dogs and will all be hunted under and most of the time 2 dogs at a time.

This is my favorite for a few different reasons. One of my friends in San Diego is a pro trainer for Tri-tronics and he has used the same 6 collars under tough usage for over 6 years and no issues. and they offer the best continious and momentary bundles in thier gear and they are stream lined so snags on bushes are very few and far between.

He use to train for Dogtra but Tritronics offered a better $$$ so what would you do?! So the other company for me would be Dogtra

I have been with Carlos when he has trained 2 of his dogs to force fetch and the continious is what is needed to force fetch. but in ordinary hunting/training situations the monentary is all that is needed.

There are some people that like Sportdog for the price point, but thier collars are hit and miss... ask any dog trainer that has used or supplied them... they are cheep for a reason.

When I buy gear i want it to last a long time, so that is why i am spending the money on the better gear.

just my 2 cents

dutchie

[dakotawinters]

I love this thread, it is so informative. Keep the info flowing!

[Ben Fougere]

I have found two new forums that I have been using in combination with huntingbc. I wanted to let all the retriever people know about these helpful sites. Not trying to take away from huntingbc, I just found these sites to be useful.

For those who have retrievers, an all around site is: http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/

For those of us with chesapeakes, like Marc and myself I found this useful website: http://www.teamchesapeake.com

Happy Trails!

[kinderdoggin]

Wiley,

You may also want to try http://www.canadianhuntingdogs.com/forums/ - it's not a high volume forum but there are some helpful folks on there to answer dog training and trialling questions, and there are quite a few non-retriever folks there for those who are interested in other breeds.

[Ben Fougere]

I tried http://www.canadianhuntingdogs.com/forums/ but the website hasn't verified my profile, so I can't post anything. I sent two emails requesting my email confirmation, but nothing has happened.

Anyway, yes, kinderdoggin's right...this is another website that's supposed to be pretty good.