Hunter's Access Rights

[behemoth]

So this morning I went to check out a spot I've had my eye on for a couple of years for a hunt. I knew there could be a challenge getting in because there is allot of private property at the base of the mountain I was targeting. After checking the backroad mapbook, Online Cadastre and an old forestry map, I was pretty sure there were a few options for access points.

When I got there, every one of them was heavily posted by a local ranch. Ok, I thought these roads were public, but I don't want to chance it, so I went to the most reliable access point I thought there was - the power line road.
The power line road had a gate with a chain and lock on it. Ok, the power line is long, I made the 1/2 hour drive to where the power line road exited the mountain on the other side.
Find the road, head up it for about 1/2 km. Posted on both sides of road "Property of ______ ranch, no hunting, no trespassing. I kept going up the road because the way it was posted, it looked like the property on the sides of the power line was private, but the road was public. I get to a gate with no signs in sight, but chain and lock on the gate.
Again, this was on a power line road.

So in my confusion and frustration, I was hoping some knowlegeable people on this site can help me answer a few questions.

1) Are power line roads private or public? I was always told they were public, maybe I'm misinformed?
2) How do I find out if a road is public or private? There are many roads that go through private land, as a right of way for the public, but surrounding landowners post them as if they own the roads. This is very common where someone owns lots on each side of the road, they try to claim the road as their own.
3) Cadastre shows lots but does not differentiate between public and private roads. Does anyone know of a website/ place where I can get this info?
4) If I find a posting or lock on a gate that I know is illegal, what do I do?

[Mr. Dean]

The only thing that I can suggest is to check w/ the Titles Office of that area.

[jml11]

I'm not sure if power lines access roads are private or not; however, you should take caution when using online cadastre as it does not ID crown administered leases which are private land or grazing leases, which are private if cattle are present. These just show up as crown provincial land. As far as I know the crown adimnisterd leases should at least be surveyed parcels (pink on the mapping sites, but not all pink is leased), where the grazing leases may be surveyed or non surveyed parcels.

But your best bet is a land title office. As for gates, ask a CO as they can deal with them if they are illegal.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I would imagine that where a powerline runs through private land it's "private" and where a powerline runs through crown land it's "public".



SSS

[BCrams]

1) Are power line roads private or public? I was always told they were public, maybe I'm misinformed?

What SSS said. If it goes through private property, its private and the owner can block access. If its on crown land, then you can drive it.

2) How do I find out if a road is public or private? There are many roads that go through private land, as a right of way for the public, but surrounding landowners post them as if they own the roads. This is very common where someone owns lots on each side of the road, they try to claim the road as their own.

Land office. IMAP BC will highlight the 'survey parcels' and indicate the private property. Now the problem is.....as JML says - is it will also highlight the 'crown property' .....but you need to realize - a lot of the 'crown survey parcels' are "crown administered leases" -- meaning the leasee can do whatever he/she wants with that parcel and that includes putting up a gate, cultivating fields, blocking access etc .....

(not to be confused with Ministry of Forests "grazing leases") The info for this is obtained through your Ministry of Forest office.

3) Cadastre shows lots but does not differentiate between public and private roads. Does anyone know of a website/ place where I can get this info?

IMAP BC is better than cadastre

4) If I find a posting or lock on a gate that I know is illegal, what do I do?

Take a photo, record exact location on map and/or GPS location etc and give it to your local CO.

I have had a big metal official looking gate removed a couple years ago because I knew it wasn't legal.


.................

Essentially 2 kinds of leases:

Crown Administered Leases - essentially gives the leasee every right to do as they want as if they 'owned' the land. Which includes posting the land, cultivating fields, running cattle etc .... you need to treat crown administered leases as if it was private property and gain permission to access / hunt / fish or what have you.

Ministry of Forests Grazing Leases - where cattle are concerned and you can hunt once they are removed unless you get permission from the leasee when they're present.

Ultimately - the onus is on you as a hunter to find out all this information for the area you are hunting. Don't 'assume' its a public road, or public land etc. A couple phone calls, inquiries will sort it out.

[behemoth]

.................


Ministry of Forests Grazing Leases - where cattle are concerned and you can hunt once they are removed unless you get permission from the leasee when they're present.



This is news to me also. Where I hunt (Merritt area) there are cattle on every hill within 80km. If I avoided areas with cows, I wouldn't be hunting. I always thought that a leasee had exclusive rights to run cattle, but all other rights remained with other user groups.

[LostInSpaces]

Two other options to find information.

The LTSA has an Online Cadastre you can look at but it will only give you a bit of basic information (Private, crown, idian reserve, other). I haven't found it that up to date and some "crown" land is actually held by local governments (municipalities) who can and do restrict access.

There is also a web site for the Integrated Land and Resource Registry (ILRR). You need a BCeID to access that but can run a report on a boundary you choose. Basically the same data you get through IMap but can give you more information on who owns it.

[twoSevenO]

Power lines are most definitely on private land. It is private land that belongs to BC Hydro and they are the ones that hold the keys to certain locked roads near the power lines.

I know when i worked for a subsidiary of BC Hydro some guys were using that as leverage to gain keys to certain gates so they could go hunting and 4x4ing in these closed-off areas.

If i had to guess, i'd say even when the powerline runs through private property the owner of the property doesn't own the land directly under the powerlines, BC Hydro does. (Since Hydro needs constant access to any power line, it only makes sense).

[Charlie]

If i had to guess, i'd say even when the powerline runs through private property the owner of the property doesn't own the land directly under the powerlines, BC Hydro does. (Since Hydro needs constant access to any power line, it only makes sense).


I don't think that is true at all. Just because there are poles it doesn't mean Hydro owns the land. They may have an easement at best, but that would have to go on title to hold any real water. I think the most they have is access to the line to provide maintenance.

[1899]

I also think it is an easment, if it goes through private land. Why don't you just ask the owner if you can drive over his land to get to the crown land?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

This is news to me also. Where I hunt (Merritt area) there are cattle on every hill within 80km. If I avoided areas with cows, I wouldn't be hunting. I always thought that a leasee had exclusive rights to run cattle, but all other rights remained with other user groups.

Yep, there are some BIG Private land ranches in your area. DLR is THEE World's Largest Working cattle ranch....Titled....not leased(maybe some leased area as well?)

http://www.douglaslake.com/DouglasLakeRanch.html


Nicola Ranch started posting more land a number of years ago....in places the were not previously posted(hate when that happens)

SSS

[behemoth]

I also think it is an easment, if it goes through private land. Why don't you just ask the owner if you can drive over his land to get to the crown land?


Normally I would, but I know this ranch wouldn't even consider it. They won't even let their own cowboys hunt on or through their land.

[behemoth]

Yep, there are some BIG Private land ranches in your area. DLR is THEE World's Largest Working cattle ranch....Titled....not leased(maybe some leased area as well?)

http://www.douglaslake.com/DouglasLakeRanch.html


Nicola Ranch started posting more land a number of years ago....in places the were not previously posted(hate when that happens)

SSS

Didnt take you long to figure it out who I was talking about, eh SSS?:wink: The worlds largest cattle ranch has an enormous amount of titled and leased land and they are very protective of it.

Nicola Ranch has also closed up access wherever they could. I know they charge out of towners $30 a day to cross their land to duck hunt. The land is easily accessable for free if you know the area, though.:biggrin:

[boxhitch]

Try the District Government office.
Thompson-Nicola Regional District.
They are the first line authority in all matters with planning, development, permits, licenses, inspections and so on. They will also have maps of No Shooting zones near towns.

[boxhitch]

The land is easily accessable for free if you know the area, though.:biggrin:Kinda like trespassing, but different ?

[jml11]

This is news to me also. Where I hunt (Merritt area) there are cattle on every hill within 80km. If I avoided areas with cows, I wouldn't be hunting. I always thought that a leasee had exclusive rights to run cattle, but all other rights remained with other user groups.


Check out section 39 of the wildlife act.

Agricultural and cleared land

39 (1) A person commits an offence if the person, without the consent of the owner, lessee or occupier of land,
(a) hunts over or traps in or on cultivated land, or
(b) hunts over Crown land that is subject to a grazing lease while the land is occupied by livestock.
(2) This section does not affect the Trespass Act.

This is also referenced on page 12 of the regs under Site Access and Restrictions.

However as BCrams stated, the onus is on the hunter to identify where these leases start and end. It may be possible that just because there are cows present, there might not be a grazing lease in place. Also, I would imageing that most holders of grazing leases would allow you to hunt on the land if you asked as you don't usually see no shooting or hunting signs posted in these areas.

[Kye]

Check out section 39 of the wildlife act.

Agricultural and cleared land

39 (1) A person commits an offence if the person, without the consent of the owner, lessee or occupier of land,
(a) hunts over or traps in or on cultivated land, or
(b) hunts over Crown land that is subject to a grazing lease while the land is occupied by livestock.
(2) This section does not affect the Trespass Act.

This is also referenced on page 12 of the regs under Site Access and Restrictions.

However as BCrams stated, the onus is on the hunter to identify where these leases start and end. It may be possible that just because there are cows present, there might not be a grazing lease in place. Also, I would imageing that most holders of grazing leases would allow you to hunt on the land if you asked as you don't usually see no shooting or hunting signs posted in these areas.

There is three types of ways cattle can be grazed on crown land:
1. Grazing permit
2. Grazing licence
3. Grazing lease

Only leases can restrict access, licences and permits can't. The majority are licences.

[behemoth]

There is three types of ways cattle can be grazed on crown land:
1. Grazing permit
2. Grazing licence
3. Grazing lease

Only leases can restrict access, licences and permits can't. The majority are licences.

This makes sense to me. I've used to hunt with an oltimer who told me "These ranchers think because theyve got a cow running around, they own the land. This land belongs to all of us, don't let them tell you that you can't be here" - referring to Crown land with cattle.

[jml11]

There is three types of ways cattle can be grazed on crown land:
1. Grazing permit
2. Grazing licence
3. Grazing lease

Only leases can restrict access, licences and permits can't. The majority are licences.


Good to know. Do you know how to tell when/where each applies. Leases are typically posted are they not?

[behemoth]

Kinda like trespassing, but different ?

No, that's not what I mean. There is proper public access, you just wouldn't know where unless you were from here.

[BCrams]

MoF grazing leases must have the Lease # posted at the point of entry. (if I recall correctly but don't quote me on it)

[Kye]

Good to know. Do you know how to tell when/where each applies. Leases are typically posted are they not?
Leases MIGHT be posted, on the other hand so MIGHT licences or permits. I personally just respect the signs, and after that its up to you.

[boxhitch]

you just wouldn't know where unless you were from here.Yeah...OK......but my maps may be better than yours ;)

[BCrams]

Yeah...OK......but my maps may be better than yours ;)

and mine better than yours :wink:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Didnt take you long to figure it out who I was talking about, eh SSS?:wink: The worlds largest cattle ranch has an enormous amount of titled and leased land and they are very protective of it.

Nicola Ranch has also closed up access wherever they could. I know they charge out of towners $30 a day to cross their land to duck hunt. The land is easily accessable for free if you know the area, though.:biggrin:

Used to poke around that country in the late season back when gas was cheap(like $ 0.49/liter cheap:roll:) and before "kids":roll:.

Bought a bow so I could stay close to home.

SSS

[Mauser98]

So this morning I went to check out a spot I've had my eye on for a couple of years for a hunt. I knew there could be a challenge getting in because there is allot of private property at the base of the mountain I was targeting. After checking the backroad mapbook, Online Cadastre and an old forestry map, I was pretty sure there were a few options for access points.

When I got there, every one of them was heavily posted by a local ranch. Ok, I thought these roads were public, but I don't want to chance it, so I went to the most reliable access point I thought there was - the power line road.
The power line road had a gate with a chain and lock on it. Ok, the power line is long, I made the 1/2 hour drive to where the power line road exited the mountain on the other side.
Find the road, head up it for about 1/2 km. Posted on both sides of road "Property of ______ ranch, no hunting, no trespassing. I kept going up the road because the way it was posted, it looked like the property on the sides of the power line was private, but the road was public. I get to a gate with no signs in sight, but chain and lock on the gate.
Again, this was on a power line road.

So in my confusion and frustration, I was hoping some knowlegeable people on this site can help me answer a few questions.

1) Are power line roads private or public? I was always told they were public, maybe I'm misinformed?
2) How do I find out if a road is public or private? There are many roads that go through private land, as a right of way for the public, but surrounding landowners post them as if they own the roads. This is very common where someone owns lots on each side of the road, they try to claim the road as their own.
3) Cadastre shows lots but does not differentiate between public and private roads. Does anyone know of a website/ place where I can get this info?
4) If I find a posting or lock on a gate that I know is illegal, what do I do?

Here's a blurp from BC Hydro's website

http://www.bchydro.com/safety/vegetation_and_powerlines/rights_of_way.html


BC Hydro maintains thousands of kilometres of power lines, nearly enough to travel twice around the world. These lines carry power from BC Hydro’s generating stations to customers throughout the province. The ground under these lines must be kept clear at all times in order to ensure British Columbians enjoy a safe and reliable source of electricity.
If left to grow, tall trees and vegetation can encroach or fall on power lines, causing power outages and posing risks to the safety of the public and BC Hydro employees. As a result BC Hydro clears around structures and under lines to reduce this risk. Clearing heavy brush along access roads also helps BC Hydro employees safely inspect, maintain and repair power lines.
BC Hydro's rights-of-ways (http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/safety/pdf/safety_rights_of_way_guidelines.Par.0001.File.safe ty_rights_of_way_guidelines.pdf) [PDF, 1.4 Mb] can contribute to communities through the development of greenways, recreational corridors and agricultural uses. By working with landowners, local governments, public agencies and interest groups to use rights-of-ways BC Hydro has helped to develop a network of rights-of-ways that is compatible with public safety and security of BC Hydro's system.
BC Hydro rights-of-ways include Crown, Indian reserve land and private holdings that are used for a variety of compatible uses. Some examples of compatible uses are: access, greenways, commercial purposes like tree farms and parking, recreation and wildlife.


Private property and BC Hydro rights of ways

Transmission lines run through corridors, which BC Hydro manages according to specific property rights acquired from the land owners. Such property rights are known as statutory rights-of-ways or easements.
On occasion, some members of the public use BC Hydro rights-of-way for snowmobiling, ATVing, hiking, hunting, horseback riding and other outdoor activities. While some of these rights-of-ways are public land, others are privately owned. It is important to remember that property owners have granted certain rights to BC Hydro, including the right to build, maintain and access our transmission lines. However, these rights do not extend to public access.
Any individual traveling along our rights-of-way without the property owner's consent is subject to the same laws of trespass as if they were trespassing on any other private property. Please do not use BC Hydro rights-of-way unless you have the consent of the appropriate property owner.

Last Modified: Oct 1, 2007