Carrying shotgun with 6 shells -- CO problems?

[canuckjgc]

Hi all,

I plan to carry a shotgun with 6 shells in the bush for the first time solely for bear defense when fly fishing or canoeing in known bear habitat.

My question is this: will a conservation officer give me a hard time? I'll have a hunting license but will have more shells than permitted. Without a hunting license I might look like a poacher to a CO. I may or may not have fishing gear with me at any particular time.

Any thoughts? If this will be a headache for me I'll just take my .44mag rifle.

Thanks!

[oldtimer]

You can't be serious !!!

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Just make sure they're slugs.

SSS

[boxhitch]

The answers to this and other ??'s are in the Regulations.


You can't be serious !!!

[FLHTCUI]

Dude, any way you slice it , your asking for trouble.
A gun for self defence is just another excuse to whine to the judge when you have to explain your actions.
Dead bear in season no tag??? Hmmm sounds fishy to me.
Dead bear out of season with a tag ???? Again sounds fishy to me?
But then again what do I know.

[canuckjgc]

The point is I won't be hunting, which technically means I can have as many shells as I wish. The problem I think is convincing a CO of that...


The answers to this and other ??'s are in the Regulations.

[Legi0n]

Where the use of a shotgun is allowed for hunting or trapping big game, an unplugged shotgun holding more than 2 shells and firing single projectiles only (slugs) may be used.So, get a bear tag and be on your way.

[canuckjgc]

I don't understand your response at all -- you don't think firearms are every necessary for bear defense, or bringing a shotgun with 6 shells is not a good idea, or ?


You can't be serious !!!

[kastles]

take some paper targets along :)

[Steeleco]

Correct me if I'm wrong, (it happens!!) but you only need worry about the 3 shot rule if your hunting birds? You don't even need a hunting licence to carry a shottie in the bush, you PAL supercedes your hunting licence, for carry purposes only.

[canuckjgc]

Yup, I guess this is the answer then, so long as shotgun hunting is allowed wherever I'll be.


So, get a bear tag and be on your way.

[canuckjgc]

Yes you are right, but I was planning to use 00 buck, but the other post mentioned just using slugs and I'm good to go, which seems reasonable enough.


Correct me if I'm wrong, (it happens!!) but you only need worry about the 3 shot rule if your hunting birds? You don't even need a hunting licence to carry a shottie in the bush, you PAL supercedes your hunting licence, for carry purposes only.

[Gateholio]

You can load your shotgun with as many single projectiles (slugs) as your firearm holds, for defense or hunting purposes.

You can only hunt with 2+1 shells of shot variety.

There doesn't seem to be a clear regulation regarding shot shells and defense, out of hunting season, but I would imagine that if you are not hunting, the hunting regulations don't apply to you.

You certainly have the right to defend yourself from animal attack in the bush, and you are certainly legal to target practice in the bush, too.

[Gateholio]

Yes you are right, but I was planning to use 00 buck, but the other post mentioned just using slugs and I'm good to go, which seems reasonable enough.

Slugs are usually a better choice for bear defense, anyway:tongue:

[c.r.hunter]

Well, if you're not hunting I don't beleive it matters. Here's what the regs state regarding hunting...


4It is unlawful to hunt with a set gun, or to hunt wildlife with a pump,
repeating or auto-loading shotgun with a magazine capable of holding
more than two shells. Where the use of a shotgun is allowed for
hunting or trapping big game, an unplugged shotgun holding more than
2 shells and firing single projectiles only (slugs) may be used.

[canuckjgc]

Thanks, very clear.

I'm thinking that a short barrel shotgun with slugs is pretty obviously a defense weapon rather than a hunting weapon for those areas/times when hunting is not permitted....at least I'd hope the CO sees it that way. For example, there are great canoe routes outside of any parks that we do outside of hunting season, but the shotgun would be defensive only (and yes, we have pepper spray, the shotty is for the unlikely event that the pepper spray is not entirely effective, in terms of the bear returning to camp afterward).


You can load your shotgun with as many single projectiles (slugs) as your firearm holds, for defense or hunting purposes.

You can only hunt with 2+1 shells of shot variety.

There doesn't seem to be a clear regulation regarding shot shells and defense, out of hunting season, but I would imagine that if you are not hunting, the hunting regulations don't apply to you.

You certainly have the right to defend yourself from animal attack in the bush, and you are certainly legal to target practice in the bush, too.

[35 Whelen]

Don't know what all the fuss is about on this one.

Slugs in a shotgun is the correct bear medicine for self defence...You want penetration, as the charge will be head on.

As for carrying it for self defence and no hunting licence, just make sure you are carrying you valid POL or PAL and you are good to go.....simple.

No CO should give you a hard time, it should be pretty obvious that carrying a fly rod and fishing tackle isn't really conducive to bear hunting.

[canuckjgc]

Beautiful, thanks.


Don't know what all the fuss is about on this one.

Slugs in a shotgun is the correct bear medicine for self defence...You want penetration, as the charge will be head on.

As for carrying it for self defence and no hunting licence, just make sure you are carrying you valid POL or PAL and you are good to go.....simple.

No CO should give you a hard time, it should be pretty obvious that carrying a fly rod and fishing tackle isn't really conducive to bear hunting.

[rishu_pepper]

Make sure your shotgun is not a semi-auto; if so you can only have 5 slugs. Am I correct folks?

[boxhitch]

Shotguns with buckshot are ok for coyotes, and they have a long season, no tag required. ;)
But then again we all know you will need more than 3 shots for proper defensive shooting, it happens all the time.
Go with the slugs.

[boxhitch]

Make sure your shotgun is not a semi-auto; if so you can only have 5 slugs. Am I correct folks?good point, from the CFA maybe ?

[winbuckhunter]

Just Carry A Big Stick!!!!!!!!! Apparently It Works!!!

[Johnnybear]

Dude, any way you slice it , your asking for trouble.
A gun for self defence is just another excuse to whine to the judge when you have to explain your actions.
Dead bear in season no tag??? Hmmm sounds fishy to me.
Dead bear out of season with a tag ???? Again sounds fishy to me?
But then again what do I know.

Look at Gatehouses reply and the answer is quite simple. Yes the CO find find it fishy "IF" there was a dead bear (from stories I've heard). I myself would feel better knowing I had enough fire power to defend my life against a bear attack then the alternative. I have packed a Marlin guide gun with out a bear tag many a time into remote fishing lakes and felt quite good about it thank you and the poster should feel quite confident with a short barreled shotgun with slugs too. POL or PAL mandatory I totally agree with.

[wolverine]

Correct me if I'm wrong, (it happens!!) but you only need worry about the 3 shot rule if your hunting birds? You don't even need a hunting licence to carry a shottie in the bush, you PAL supercedes your hunting licence, for carry purposes only.


Yes, but technically you are required to have permit to carry, if you don't have a hunting license, even if you have a PAL.

[Gateholio]

Make sure your shotgun is not a semi-auto; if so you can only have 5 slugs. Am I correct folks?

Your semi auto shotgun should not have a magazine capacity over 5 rounds to begin with, as per federal law.

[Gateholio]

Yes, but technically you are required to have permit to carry, if you don't have a hunting license, even if you have a PAL.

No such thing as the "Permit to Carry" anymore.

PAL replaced it.

[Gateholio]

Shotguns with buckshot are ok for coyotes, and they have a long season, no tag required. ;)
.

Still need to plug your shotgun, as per hunting regs, if using shot vs coyotes. Everyone shoudl keep that in mind...

They shoudl amend hunitng regs to require plugs only for bird hunting...

[Johnnybear]

No such thing as the "Permit to Carry" anymore.

PAL replaced it.

Even for "Bonified Prospectors"? I heard this is no longer but not sure.

[Gateholio]

Even for "Bonified Prospectors"? I heard this is no longer but not sure.

The "Permit to Carry" or whatever it was called was a BC permit sold to BC people that didn't have a hunting licence. You were supposed to have one if you transported any firearms (restricted/non restricted) in BC. I believe it was called a "FIrearms Liccense" and you needed that or a hunting license.

So if you carried a gun for defense, or shot trap, you were supposed to have one or the other, regardless of hunting seasons. To be honest, it was just a silly card that really did nothing, as most "gun control" laws are.

This was phased out when the PAL came into effect.

Prospectors and others that work in the bush can apply for ATC's- Authorizations to carry. This gives them the legal ability to carry a hangun in the bush, for predator defense.

Of course, non working people cannot obtain this permit, for some reason recreational users lives are worth less...:-o

[fireonethree]

Check out the link to the fed site:

http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/wild_e.asp

As well, the site also states:

Q. What is the maximum number of cartridges that a firearm magazine can legally hold?
As set out in Criminal Code Regulations (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/SOR-98-462/index.html), some large-capacity magazines are prohibited regardless of the class of firearm to which the magazines are attached. As a general rule, the maximum magazine capacity is:

5 cartridges for most magazines designed for a semi-automatic centre-fire long gun; or
10 cartridges for most handgun magazinesA large-capacity magazine is not prohibited if it has been permanently altered so that it cannot hold more than the number of cartridges allowed by law. Acceptable ways to alter a magazine are set out in the regulations.
There is no limit to the magazine capacity for semi-automatic rim-fire long guns, or for other long guns that are not semi-automatics.

In a nutshell:

you can pack five (semi-auto), not six shells of whatever flavour you want.
don't use the word 'hunting' if you have a conversation with a CO - protection is strictly for protection.
print off some documents from the CFC site and keep it in your truck (or close-by). It is better to be appear informed than ignorant.Good luck,

-FOT-

[hunter1947]

If I was you I would call up a CO in the area that you are going to be fishing in and tell him what your planes are with your shotgun ,then you will you will know what you can or can't do.

[Glenny]

"Prospectors and others that work in the bush can apply for ATC's- Authorizations to carry. This gives them the legal ability to carry a hangun in the bush, for predator defense."



Hi Gate. I heard you can pack side arms if you have a free miners certificate.( And of course a PAL for restricted firearms.) Any truth to that? Thanks G

[TimberPig]

"Prospectors and others that work in the bush can apply for ATC's- Authorizations to carry. This gives them the legal ability to carry a hangun in the bush, for predator defense."



Hi Gate. I heard you can pack side arms if you have a free miners certificate.( And of course a PAL for restricted firearms.) Any truth to that? Thanks G

The free miners certificate doesn't allow you to pack sidearms. It may qualify you for getting the ATC, which is what allows you to pack the sidearm. You actually have to do some mining and will likely need to show some evidence of it, more than throwing a goldpan into your truck and never using it.

[FLHTCUI]

Ok, here is my take on this.
I am in camp with my buddies, my tags are filled for Provincial limit on Deer and the CO comes into the camp ( asking for permission first of course ) and asks, whatcha doing?
My answer is " We are Deer Hunting"
What have I just done? I admitted to the CO that I am hunting during a lawfull season and then he checks up on my lic. OOps, Im busted ticket issude and read details on how to contest the ticket.
Now, I am fishing andam carrying a gun for self defence, where in the regulations both the Hunting Regs and in the Firearms Act does it specifically say I can carry a gun for Self Defence ??
Im not saying I am 100% correct in my logic, but rather playing Devils advocate so someone doesnt open a can of worms who just has a Federal Lic. to purchase and own a gun.
Again, just my .02 worth.
Rob

[boxhitch]

where in the regulations both the Hunting Regs and in the Firearms Act does it specifically say I can carry a gun for Self Defence ??
You will never ever find a list telling you what you can do. impossible to cover all the scenariios.
Rules and regs tell you what you can not do.

[Steeleco]

Yes, but technically you are required to have permit to carry, if you don't have a hunting license, even if you have a PAL.

Prior to 1998 when they implemented the PAL and did away with the FAC this would have been correct.


The "Permit to Carry" or whatever it was called was a BC permit sold to BC people that didn't have a hunting licence. You were supposed to have one if you transported any firearms (restricted/non restricted) in BC. I believe it was called a "FIrearms Liccense" and you needed that or a hunting license.



They were called "Carry permits" IIRC, you needed to go a local hardware store and part with $20. They lasted 5 years. When the PAL was introduced in 98, the wise ones in Victoria realized the PAL made their piece of paper redundant. They then changed the requirement to "Air rifles" Ya OK!!!!

[rishu_pepper]

BTW only a very select few prospectors/miners are able to obtain an ATC. Consider yourself lucky if you manage to go through the hoops and get one :)

[KodiakHntr]

the CO comes into the camp ( asking for permission first of course ) and asks, whatcha doing?
Rob


Does the CO need to ask permission? They have more clout than cops with some stuff......Thats why you often see a CO at a RCMP road check stop....Cops have more rules about what they can and can't do when it comes to vehicle inspections....CO's don't have the same restrictions.....

[KevinB]

where in the regulations both the Hunting Regs and in the Firearms Act does it specifically say I can carry a gun for Self Defence ??


Your thinking is backwards...laws are made to list what we cannot do, not what we can do.

Which is why, of course, the hunting regs always seem so confusing and open to interpretation! :wink:



-oops, I see boxhitch beat me to it.

[Wolfman]

I'd stick with slugs, that way you'd have a more reasonable argument that your shotgun is for bear defense only.


Wolfman

[FLHTCUI]

Does the CO need to ask permission? They have more clout than cops with some stuff......Thats why you often see a CO at a RCMP road check stop....Cops have more rules about what they can and can't do when it comes to vehicle inspections....CO's don't have the same restrictions.....

Kodiak, I was useing it as an example is all...
Figurativley speaking...I mean you dont go walking into someones camp without either announcing your pressance do you or asking for permission doyou ?
The few CO's I have spoken to either in the bush or stopped on the road or the river bank have been most courtious and professional in dealing with myself and my hunting partners.
Now having said that, again, just for referance , When dealing with the last CO in the feild what was the first words out of his or her mouth?
As for the RCMP, I think it is great they work together on the Hwy. or in the bush to catch a few more criminals( fishing expidition if you will )
Otherwise how many more drunken fools will we see it the bush or how many more pregnant does poached with loaded guns in a van comeing from Pemberton and being stopped at a seat belt check and low and behold we have two different enforement agencies working together protecting the citizens who value the laws of this Province and Country?

So, if the guy wants to carry a gun for protection against bears while fishing he should really
A) consult a lawyer who knows the gamelaws and guns laws .
or
B) well I thought I had another point to make, but have spent to much time on this for today...
But, I do value your input and the input of others as well.

Tight Lines !
Rob

[lapadat]

KodiakHntr,


Cops have less authority than a CO? Not true. On the contrary, a CO has less authority than a federal RCMP officer. The reason a CO is at a roadblock with the RCMP is because the CO knows about fish/wildlife laws. The CO gets most of his/her authority from the BC Wildlife Act which is a provincial statute (law). The RCMP officer in small-town BC is a federally-appointed officer unlike the CO who is a provinically appointed officer, thus the RCMP officer can enforce any and all laws - provincial or federal, including the Wildlife Act.

A CO or RCMP officer or any city police officer can enter ANY hunting camp with or without permission to enforce the wildlife act. Read the Wildlife Act - it gives CO's, RCMP and City Police LOTS of authority to enforce the wildlife act.

[Wolfman]

Still need to plug your shotgun, as per hunting regs, if using shot vs coyotes. Everyone shoudl keep that in mind...

They shoudl amend hunitng regs to require plugs only for bird hunting...

Clarke man, you are the guy who has the regs down pat! I'm glad you are on the list for the rest of us.

...now if you can just tell me how to flip an omlette properly I'd really be sailin ;-) I've never been able to get that right ;-)

Wolfman

[Gateholio]

You will never ever find a list telling you what you can do. impossible to cover all the scenariios.
Rules and regs tell you what you can not do.

x2 !!! :smile:

[Gateholio]

So, if the guy wants to carry a gun for protection against bears while fishing he should really
A) consult a lawyer who knows the gamelaws and guns laws .


Tight Lines !
Rob

Why consult a lawyer? Look at the BC WIldlife Act and look at the FIrearms Act. If you can't find a law that prohibits carrying a firearm in the bush for defense purposes- Then there isn't one.

[Gateholio]

C
...now if you can just tell me how to flip an omlette properly I'd really be sailin ;-) I've never been able to get that right ;-)

Wolfman

I can't either...Well, at least I can't do it when on National TV..:eek:

[jonz]

My preference when I carried a defender for protection was to have a mix of heavy buckshot, 00 or 000, and slugs. Less chance of missing with buckshot in what might be a highly stressful situation.

There are certain areas like national parks and some provincial parks where you can't carry a firearm, if you have one while camping or travelling there it must remain locked in the vehicle.

Another thing to consider is the storage regulations. You can keep a gun unlocked and in the open in remote wilderness areas for predator control but if it's in your camp it must be kept unloaded. Ammunition may be kept handy. And if it's sitting around while you are fishing or whatever then I assume the same rule applies.

[GoatGuy]

CO's aren't 'out to get' you; they're no different than any other hunter in the sense that they're out to protect the resource from 'law-breakers'.

The intent clearly isn't there and you aren't hunting. I think you'll be fine.

If everything else fails apply common sense.

[Gateholio]

Another thing to consider is the storage regulations. You can keep a gun unlocked and in the open in remote wilderness areas for predator control but if it's in your camp it must be kept unloaded. Ammunition may be kept handy. And if it's sitting around while you are fishing or whatever then I assume the same rule applies.

You don't ned to unload at any time in camp, if you are in attendance. If you are leaving the firearm unattended, you need to unload and secure.

[elkdom]

I can't either...Well, at least I can't do it when on National TV..:eek:

Better tell the guy thats wants 6 shells in shot gun to carry "6 omellets or pancakes" that way IF an WHEN he does encounter a bear he can TOSS or DROP the GOODIES and run like hell in the other direction to safety! I think the gun is of little use in the hands of a novice, money would be better spent on BEAR AWARE coarse and BELLS and PEPPER SPRAY ! and if one or two shots dont do the trick !!, then the rest will be up to the coroner! the other 4 shells will just be more of the victems personal effects!

[Wolfman]

Better tell the guy thats wants 6 shells in shot gun to carry "6 omellets or pancakes" that way IF an WHEN he does encounter a bear he can TOSS or DROP the GOODIES and run like hell in the other direction to safety! I think the gun is of little use in the hands of a novice, money would be better spent on BEAR AWARE coarse and BELLS and PEPPER SPRAY ! and if one or two shots dont do the trick !!, then the rest will be up to the coroner! the other 4 shells will just be more of the victems personal effects!

I heartily agree. Bear bells and pepper spray...well maybe the bells might help a little, but that spray stuff....I dunno. For a fisherman bells might do a little in letting bears know you are around, though bells would probably let STEELHEAD know you were there too - crafty buggers ;-)

Funny how the eco-tourist types wear bear bells and wonder why they don't see any other wildlife ;-)

As for 5 shell capacity - yeah, five should be MORE than enough for what you need it for...

I'd rather have one of these, speaking of a handy camp bear gun:
http://www.canadaammo.com/product.php?productid=11&cat=0&page=1
I don't think there would be much doubt that this is a bear defense gun.

I think one of these puppies is next on my list...


Wolfman

[elkdom]

I heartily agree. Bear bells and pepper spray...well maybe the bells might help a little, but that spray stuff....I dunno.

I'd rather have one of these, speaking of a handy camp bear gun:
http://www.canadaammo.com/product.php?productid=11&cat=0&page=1
I don't think there would be much doubt that this is a bear defense gun.


Wolfman

Truth is in bear attacks, seldom time for ONE !! much less 6 shots !! loaded guns dont mean your bear proof!

[fireonethree]

Using a Firearm for Wilderness Protection
"If you wish to use a firearm for protection against animal predators in wilderness areas, here is some information you should know regarding legal requirements under the Firearms Act...As a general rule, the only firearms allowed for wilderness protection are non-restricted rifles and shotguns." ( http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/factsheets/wild_e.asp )

We all know there is a difference between hunting and carrying a firearm.

Carrying a firearm for protection is not hunting and allows you to pack a shotgun with a magazine capacity of 5 shells, as per the Federal definition. (So, alternating ammo like 00 buck and slugs would be legal for bear defense).

Hunting big game with a shotgun is covered by the Provincial Regulations (p.17,H&T Syn) that state you can load it up with more than 2 shells (up to 5 because over 5, then the Fed's come into play) have it unplugged, loaded with slugs only.

-FOT-

[Bowzone_Mikey]

dude after 6 pages .... I dont think your up to anything "fishy" just a dude looking for some answers and got 6 pages of confusing stuff ....

if you going out to bear country ..load with slugs ... lots of them ...
I dont recall who said it first on this site ... but the quote goes like this

I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

[canuckjgc]

Whew! Ok, summarizing the information from here and elsewhere:

1) A person can carry any non-restricted firearm (including a pump shotgun with unlimited shells or a semi-auto with 5) using buckshot or slugs in any area where its legal to shoot the thing if it is strictly for self-defense. A good suggestion is to keep it filled with slugs as this is pretty obvious proof that one is carrying it for bear defense. You must have your PAL with you but no hunting license is required. A CO who sees you with such a firearm and no other hunting paraphernalia shouldn't give you a hard time.

2) If you actually are hunting, all the hunting rules apply -- watch that shotgun with buckshot!

3) The storage rules do not apply when you are "using" it for self-defense. If the firearm is left unattended at camp, secure it properly.

4) A person can carry a non-restricted firearm in any of these listed provincial parks (http://www.qp.gov.bc.ca/statreg/reg/P/Park/180_90_03.htm#ScheduleB) with a PAL *and* a hunting license and ONLY during hunting season, otherwise firearms are prohibited at any other time. Simply carrying a PAL during hunting season in these parks is not sufficient, as the regs require a hunting license as well.

5) You can never carry a firearm in a national (federal) park.

6) Authorizations to carry are required for restricted firearms (ie handguns) but are tough to get and you have to be genuinely working in the bush to apply.

7) Some people think it's a waste of time to bring a firearm for bear defense, bear spray is much better. Do what you feel is best (personally, I'll bring both when I'm miles from civilization gutting fish at the river's edge in bear country).

Ok, is this accurate??

[NONhuman2021]

Always bear spray first or horn,,,,, then kukri and maybe break out the shotgun.

HAHAHA

[wideopenthrottle]

you realize you just resurrected this thread from 2008...good info either way

[Foxton Gundogs]

So it is illegal to hunt Anything with more than 2 shot shells in the mag, total 3. It is legal to carry more than 2/3 if they are single projectile shells(slugs). Then if you are shooting auto loader you run into the 5 shot mag issue. That being said, in a holy crap bear situation you probably wont have time for more than a couple of shots anyway. Make them count, a couple of Brennekes will do the job if the shooter can. As for pepper spray well all I'll say is pepper is for AFTER the bear is on the grill and a horn well that can be used to call in every one for the Pepper bear chops.

[tigrr]

Unless you are walking up to a pond and not walking down a trail away from water, I don't see any problem with any CO I have met. They are humans just like us. And most that I know are good people. Remember I live in Horsefly!!
As I age a sideXside or over and under would be un-grouse possible.

[Drillbit]

Your semi auto shotgun should not have a magazine capacity over 5 rounds to begin with, as per federal law.

Limit is for the longest shells a gun is designed for.

If you look at guys in the 3 gun game the real hero’s run semi 3.5” guns. They can legally hold 7, 2&3/4 shells in the 5 round 3.5” magazine.

[high horse Hal]

or 10 mini shells with slugs

[Foxton Gundogs]

or 10 mini shells with slugs
Seriously why would you want to sacrifice hitting power for 7 more shots that you will never get the chance to use. Not sure if you have ever been involved in a bear charge but they happen fast, your shots will be under 25 yards and you will never get more than a couple of shots and believe me you will want as much killing power as you can get out of a slug. Brennekes are the choice on most experienced bear men, but any TOP QUALITY 2 3/4 or 3" slug shell will do the job.

[elimsprint]

Don't know what all the fuss is about on this one.

Slugs in a shotgun is the correct bear medicine for self defence...You want penetration, as the charge will be head on.

As for carrying it for self defence and no hunting licence, just make sure you are carrying you valid POL or PAL and you are good to go.....simple.

No CO should give you a hard time, it should be pretty obvious that carrying a fly rod and fishing tackle isn't really conducive to bear hunting.

That's funny, I've joked on more than one occasion that if I was to go bear hunting I would carry a rod and reel as I always see bears when I've got them in my hand:-)

[IronNoggin]

Not sure if you have ever been involved in a bear charge but they happen fast, your shots will be under 25 yards and you will never get more than a couple of shots and believe me you will want as much killing power as you can get out of a slug. Brennekes are the choice of most experienced bear men.

This. In Spades.
It happens so damned fast most simply cannot believe nor compensate for it.
2 shots if you are lucky.
My preference is this as a consequence:

https://i.imgur.com/uBQ68YD.jpeg

Short. Easily maneuverable. Easy to center at close range. Fastest 2 shots you can deliver bar none.

And yeah, Brenneke's are the ONLY thing I stuff into it's tubes for such potential encounters.

Nog

[kolofardos]

This. In Spades.
It happens so damned fast most simply cannot believe nor compensate for it.
2 shots if you are lucky.
My preference is this as a consequence:

https://i.imgur.com/uBQ68YD.jpeg

Short. Easily maneuverable. Easy to center at close range. Fastest 2 shots you can deliver bar none.

And yeah, Brenneke's are the ONLY thing I stuff into it's tubes for such potential encounters.

Nog
Where the hell are you finding Brennekes?

[IronNoggin]

Where the hell are you finding Brennekes?

Stockpiled a bunch in a group sales thing we arranged on another site.
Have not had to look since.
But I'll poke around and letcha know if I find any...

Nog

[tigrr]

You have less than 3 seconds in some cases. If the first doesn't connect the rest are still in the tube when the bear hits.

[Drillbit]

Nog

You don’t mind the 2 triggers?

I think I’d rather have a 20” over under with a single trigger if I was going to run 2 barrels

like a Stoeger condor outback. https://stoegerindustries.com/shotguns/condor-outback-shotguns?eid=256

[Downtown]

Buckshot or Slugs for Predator defense should be no problem. However if you do shot/kill a Bear/Cougar during an open season for the Specie you just killed, you will have to report and wont be allowed to keep it.

Cheers

[kolofardos]

Stockpiled a bunch in a group sales thing we arranged on another site.
Have not had to look since.
But I'll poke around and letcha know if I find any...

Nog Thanks, would appreciate it.

[Foxton Gundogs]

Nog

You don’t mind the 2 triggers?

I think I’d rather have a 20” over under with a single trigger if I was going to run 2 barrels

like a Stoeger condor outback. https://stoegerindustries.com/shotguns/condor-outback-shotguns?eid=256
I personally like 2 triggers in a Holy crap double gun. I backed up with a 45-70 2 trigger double. It's easy to squeeze off the front trigger and slide back and positioned for a follow up by the time you're back on target. JMHO

[Drillbit]

I personally like 2 triggers in a Holy crap double gun. I backed up with a 45-70 2 trigger double. It's easy to squeeze off the front trigger and slide back and positioned for a follow up by the time you're back on target. JMHO

Hmm. I've never really tried one with 2 triggers so that's interesting.

I just figured one trigger would be one less thing to think about, when you have to act fast.

[Gateholio]

When I saw a 2008 thread bumped I figures Klassen was back! :)

[Gateholio]

Nog

You don’t mind the 2 triggers?

I think I’d rather have a 20” over under with a single trigger if I was going to run 2 barrels

like a Stoeger condor outback. https://stoegerindustries.com/shotguns/condor-outback-shotguns?eid=256

You can overcome most obstacles (like double triggers) with training. The question is do you want to? And for what reason?

If your chosen defense firearm has double triggers and it's the only option you have, then you must train to use them properly. If you have other options with a single trigger, then why not go with what you are used to? Even people experienced with double triggers can mess it up when under even a little stress (like shooting at birds)

While I always have liked the look of SXS firearms with double triggers, I don't own any these days. Over unders with single triggers seem more packable and practical.

[IronNoggin]

Nog

You don’t mind the 2 triggers?


It's all what you get used to.
As Foxey noted above, I can slam two right on target in less than a second.
Lots of practice.


While I always have liked the look of SXS firearms with double triggers, I don't own any these days. Over unders with single triggers seem more packable and practical.

I own over and unders (yes, with single triggers) for one purpose - shooting birds.
Their barrels are far from practical in length for tight situations, and although I do hear what you are suggesting, I sure as hell ain't cutting any of them down.

The double I posted is light, short, and much more packable & practical IMO in these kind of situations.

Cheers,
Nog

[Gateholio]

I own over and unders (yes, with single triggers) for one purpose - shooting birds.
Their barrels are far from practical in length for tight situations, and although I do hear what you are suggesting, I sure as hell ain't cutting any of them down.

The double I posted is light, short, and much more packable & practical IMO in these kind of situations.

Cheers,
Nog




Nobody is suggesting to choose a long barrel shotgun for defense. You can get single trigger O/U shotguns with short barrels. I've seen them as short as 12" but 20" seems more common. My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights like you would find on a handgun. It's about as light, packable and practical as they come. Due to the excellent and day/night visible sight it's very fast to get on target, too.

[high horse Hal]

"My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights"

Nice, does it happen to fold in half ?
Marstar shows a new folding pumper, 20" tubes fold to 25" long

[Gateholio]

"My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights"

Nice, does it happen to fold in half ?
Marstar shows a new folding pumper, 20" tubes fold to 25" long

It doesn’t fold in half but you can pull the barrels off in about 2 seconds.

Do you have a link to the Marstsr shotgun ?

[Treed]

"My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights"

what is your shorty o/u? Sounds interesting.

[Gateholio]

"My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights"

what is your shorty o/u? Sounds interesting.



it's a Ricol, made in Turkey and imported by Corwin Arms a few years ago. Turkey makes lots of shotguns and many are branded for more commonly known firearm companies.

Mine is a 20g that I use as a truck gun for grouse and it's perfect in that application. They also had 410 and 12 gauge versions. Mine has choke tubes as well. It's good quality, too. Not junky like some of the shotgun imports. I don't use it for defense but it would work well in that application by loading it with a couple of slugs.

A few other places bring similar shotguns in sometimes, here's a review of the Sulun which I think would benefit from a full length butt and a bit longer barrels. But you get the idea about other available options.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJxRASHUIGk

[high horse Hal]

Do you have a link to the Marstsr shotgun ?Revolution Armory
https://marstar.ca/product/wolverine-xp-folding-pump-shotgun-12g/

[revarchery]

So did this guy catch any fish? 14 years ago when this mattered?

[IronNoggin]

My shorty O/U has 16.5" barrels and fiber optic sights like you would find on a handgun. It's about as light, packable and practical as they come. Due to the excellent and day/night visible sight it's very fast to get on target, too.

Interesting. Never even heard of such.

Mind posting a picture Gates?

Nog

[adriaticum]

If you run into a CO in the bush , just play dead.

[Gateholio]

Interesting. Never even heard of such.

Mind posting a picture Gates?

Nog


Foxer did a video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL_2kAWxeLM

[IronNoggin]

Thanks Gate. Impressive little scattergun.

Cheers

[wildcatter]

I really like this gun.
Tried to look up the website and this is the message I got: We are currently on hiatus. We thank you for all for your support over the years.
Where is this available and what's the price?

[geologist]

Always bear spray first or horn,,,,, then kukri and maybe break out the shotgun.

HAHAHA

Do a Treadwell, no gun, no bear spray and then beg your girlfriend to hit the griz mauling you with a fry pan.................

[Treed]

Dang, that’s a great looking gun Gate. Shame it’s not available still.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Do a Treadwell, no gun, no bear spray and then beg your girlfriend to hit the griz mauling you with a fry pan.................

Yea ! That worked out WELL for him :-P Idiot he WAS :shock: Lol. RJ

[Gateholio]

Dang, that’s a great looking gun Gate. Shame it’s not available still.


I saw these over on CGN. Haven't tried one though.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=576158&d=1648586043

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=576159&d=1648586053

[Gateholio]

Dang, that’s a great looking gun Gate. Shame it’s not available still.


I saw these over on CGN. Haven't tried one though.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=576158&d=1648586043

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=576159&d=1648586053

[Redthies]

I shot a 12” 870 clone made by Akkar. Reliable had them last year for $199. 3+1 and 5 on the cuff. Too bad I can’t remember who owns(owned) it. :wink:

https://i.postimg.cc/FzDFsk3D/D17-C0-C29-3-AF0-4745-88-EC-298-D68-D871-F1.jpg (https://postimg.cc/rRR2fmhr)

[Rezpatrol]

This is correct