Empire Valley Buck Education -

[BCrams]

All the fuss over Clearwater / Gang / other areas etc for those wanting to hunt big deer ....... I am using the popular Empire as an example --

I never do this and the result of this may very well distribute the hunting pressure and some keen guys will drop a few big bucks as a result.

You still need the skills of still hunting etc and knowing what to look for to be successful.

One year I hunted the Empire Valley area. What shocked me upon my arrival driving the 'allowable' roads were the sheer number of deer camps and hunters. Right from the Barn crowd and guys camped all along the road as indicated on the attached map (beds).

The red lines dictate where the "majority" of hunters went hunting. Why not, its the nicest country to walk, still hunt and glass etc. Lots of deer and lots of little bucks and the odd 4 pt buck getting caught down low.

Most of the camps at the time did not have any deer hanging.

After talking to a few guys and figuring out what was going on ..... I studied the maps and and made the decision to commit despite the "crowds". Over a 4 day period - I passed up around twenty 4x4 bucks of which a couple had me waffling over whether to shoot or not ..... and a few were bucks that most guys would give their left nut to shoot.

It took a lot of hiking, grunt work, packing in ... but the "plus signs" are where I found good bucks. All of them 'away' from the crowds and in the thicker timber. Best of all. I never ran into a single hunter. They were all hunting the easy stuff.

I returned with a couple guys a year later and were successful pretty quick while the "crowded" areas were not.

I didn't highlight all of the spots where we saw bucks but I'll say one buck in the 170-180 range is marked at one of the plus's.

This is the sort of example hunters need to realize not just here but up at the Gang Ranch, Junction and across BC need to do. Good bucks have been educated. They've adapted to hunting pressure and weather.

You need to do the same if you want success for big bucks. Keep in mind, you will see way fewer deer and the hunting is much more frustrating and trying ..... but learn to identify out of the way spots and where bucks most likely will hole up and you'll be successful.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Can we expect another map like this for sheep hunters on the Alaskan Hwy???:p

SSS

[Kody94]

Can we expect another map like this for sheep hunters on the Alaskan Hwy???:p

SSS

:D

BCR...you should also upgrade to GoogleEarth V.4.3 (also a free version)....the improvements are AWESOME.

[BCrams]

SSS - I am sure folks would like that.

4Ster - updated! Thx

I received a few PM's about the Empire and to further supplement information on the area for those who are interested:

All the information about Churn Creek Protected Area (a very large area) is in the link provided below:


map of the area
how to get there
open roads versus closed roads
etc .....I really enjoyed hunting there and will likely return!


http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/explore/parkpgs/churn_crk/

[BCrams]

Good stuff, Rams. But the info is nothing new. Most hunters probably realize the good deer are elsewhere, but they have a style of hunting that doesn't get them beyond the comfortable spots. That goes for deer, moose, elk, sheep, et al. What works for some doesn't work for others. Thats OK.
.

Very true!! This was to address the complaints there are "no bucks" around. You will hear largely these days from the Empire straight up north through Junction about the "lack of bucks", "no bucks around" etc.....

They're there, just not where they're looking or want them to be.

[dino]

why dont you do the same map for clearwter.:-D everyone already knows the churn story.LOL.Just kidding any help is good.
dino

[BCrams]

why dont you do the same map for clearwter.:-D everyone already knows the churn story.LOL.Just kidding any help is good.
dino

I don't need to. Everyone knows there's a big buck behind every tree. Thats why everyone goes there! :-D

[jml11]

Very true!! This was to address the complaints there are "no bucks" around. You will hear largely these days from the Empire straight up north through Junction about the "lack of bucks", "no bucks around" etc.....

They're there, just not there they're looking or want them to be.


Agreed the last time I hunted the junction area we saw one small spike and few does "where people would want them to be" over three days. However, I was hiking well off the roads into timber and over river breaks and ran into lots of bucks. Was onto a 4-point in the first hour of hunting but sadly missed after a 1 and half hour stalk. Damn buck fever! Have packed out 4 points from hell hole's in the past in that country, but I did not see any other hunters in them either ;-).

Hey BCRams since your desk is so close to mine why don't you draw up a special map of the Empire just for me with GPS locations of all those bucks you saw and drop it off before lunch :smile:! LOL. Ahh nevermind i'll just try out that new deer call we uncovered yesterday! Should work eh?

[Gateholio]

BCRam's
Here is a good question, because I believe it would apply to many other areas in BC, too...

What is it about those areas (the +'s) that make it so attractive to those deer?

[newhunterette]

now when i was in PG I was told everyone goes moose hunting in clearwater because PG only has ugly horses - now your saying clearwater also has big bucks hiding behind every tree - No bloody wonder Dana has such success in spotting critters

[BCrams]

BCRam's
Here is a good question, because I believe it would apply to many other areas in BC, too...

What is it about those areas (the +'s) that make it so attractive to those deer?

Smart fellow.....hmmmmm should I reveal more secrets of the trade???

Why not.

Before I hit the areas where the bucks were - I "knew" if I was going to find bucks - I would find them somewhere in these spots .....


First of all. The majority of bucks won't be where the 'crowds' are. If a good buck gets shot down low with the crowds - he got stupid and let his guard down.


Bucks like to travel along co-oridors. I knew as others know that bucks will eventually come off Blackdome etc. "Where are they going to come down?" Natural ridgelines and funnels. I try to identify areas where I am most likely going to bump bucks and narrow it down to an area, then go in and still hunt / glass if possible.
Check out the addition of 'natural movement routes' (downhill) I identified prior to hunting the spots. The yellow lines identify natural movement for mule deer. Find the converging point for all and you're most likely to find some bucks in there somewhere at some point. Hence my choice of focus.

The other plus's are similar but different terrain features and what was there that drew my attention to them.

There are many other areas like this down there but I did not reveal them all.

Keep in mind - the hunt wasn't a slam dunk and finding the bucks wasn't 'easy'.

[BCrams]

On another note - it takes a "considerable" amount of snow to push the majority of bucks down to where the people are hunting.

[bighornbob]

Rams

Yah yah yah, we know all this already from reading Peterson Hunting, but we all want to know how do we get a ATV in there.:mrgreen::mrgreen:

BHB

[BCrams]

Rams

Yah yah yah, we know all this already from reading Peterson Hunting, but we all want to know how do we get a ATV in there.:mrgreen::mrgreen:

BHB

Oh - I forgot .... you're like the guy wearing the pair of Vans posing with his ram !

A pair of Schnees or Lowas should work fine. :-)

Petersons should contact me someday lol.

[bighornbob]

Oh - I forgot .... you're like the guy wearing the pair of Vans posing with his ram !

A pair of Schnees or Lowas should work fine. :-)

Petersons should contact me someday lol.

Vans for hunting. Sheesh, I pack a pair of sandals to put on for the pics just to throw guys off.

BHB

[srupp]

Greg is right on the mark regarding this area however he DID miss one location that is STILL primo for deer..BUT I bet he KNOWS IT...lol

As for snow it really is surprising the actual amount it takes..I have seen the big boys NOT move with 16 inches of fresh snow but when a few more fell they exited in MASS..both here and out east over WOLVERINE mountain when the bucks come out of the high country from Likely..etc..

Both SHEEP and deer here have been PUSHED and hunted HARD from mid August when the die hards hit the area prescouting untill late season big buck season has come to an end the area has constant hunting pressure...

The other part of the solution is not just movement areas..but 'stress free bedding locations.." more and more are deep with in the remaining timber in some insane real estate...the big boys do STILL revert to "rim rockers and putting some formidable almost impassable terrain behind and above them so they can concentrate on bedding areas that make movement detectable by site sound and SMELL..THERMALS....

Great post Greg..well done..

cheers

Steven

[BCrams]

Greg is right on the mark regarding this area however he DID miss one location that is STILL primo for deer..BUT I bet he KNOWS IT...lol



shhhhhhhhh ......... that I do srupp 8-)

I'll can't reveal all !! But definatly enough info to 'help' those who are looking for bucks.

[Sitkaspruce]

Dang It Rams!!!!!!!

Now everybody and their neigbours dog are going to be there.......:wink::mrgreen:

Do not shoot any cows!!!!!! Seen that more than once when we used to hunt there.

Now I am definately going to CLEARWATER OR KAMLOOPS OR PRINCETON OR KELOWNA:tongue::wink:

there is no damn GOOGLE EARTH MAPS showing where to hunt there:razz:

maybe you could send me one on the sly??????

Cheers

SS

[M.Dean]

A number of years ago i sat around a camp fire across the river from the Empire. I sat and listened to a few older Native ladies that we had the privilege of hunting with, they had stories of the old days on the Empire and Gang ranches. I heard that a few bored cowboys one time, herded and roped a number of bucks that had been feeding between the hay piles, they then took it upon them selves to castrate these bucks to see what became of it! The story go's that for a few years after there was some massive bucks running around! The older lady told us that a uncle of her's once tried to count the deer that migrated across the river, he lost count at around 1400 she said! The last time i hunted the Empire, we camped at the hay sheds, i counted 40 some odd trucks, looked like Wal Mart Christmas Eve! I left before day light, walked across the road from the sheds and went up hill, i never saw another hunter in 4 days until i came back down in the after noons! Tons of deer, a few nice ones but no shot, if you love hunting it's a trip you should do before your to buggered up to go!!!

[dino]

if the is weather is right. this is what I saw all day every day at the ranch/empire http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRYSsVQEHLk

[Ambush]

I've hunted the empire for about 25 years. I've also spent a lot of time behind a spotting scope close to the Churn. If people want to do something about the quality of deer there and particularly on the Gang they should leave the good four points and young bucks alone. Start shooting some of those mature massive two and three points. Bad genetics!!

But I don't go there much any more so I guess I shouldn't make suggestions.

[one-shot-wonder]

This thread was posted just as a distraction to the earlier "Clearwater" thread. Try to deflect some pressure perhaps.......No way I am still hitting Birch Island for the rut!:tongue:

[jeeper]

From the looks of all those little red lines you must have been following me last year :)

Been on most of those walks :)


Bruce


There are a few more not shown tho that are really good !

[kgriz]

Hunt where most people won't bother to go........
Why thats, thats........Brrrrriiiiillllliiiiaaaaannnnnntt:ide a:

[BCrams]

Hunt where most people won't bother to go........
Why thats, thats........Brrrrriiiiillllliiiiaaaaannnnnntt:ide a:

I thought so too :lol:

[Husky7mm]

Was there snow when you went, if so how much,and when was the last time you were there? Looks like you like valley bottoms, what about the major trails side hill?

[srupp]

about 10 years ago I was the LAST to leave the Churn when we got a real dump of snow..24 inches over a couple of days and nites snowing..everyone else had vamoosed when the hills came alive with the big boyz heading DOWN..it wasnt as impressing as WOLVERINE when the same thing happens but still very impressive indeed.....

I got a non typical that was 300 pounds live weight.... rack was freekish and didnt score all that good in the end...but it was something to see just what it takes to push the last stragglers out of the hills...

Itw as SO BAD I followed the road truck out and even THEN he had to pull me till we got to the gazetted rd..

The next spring we flew out there during "work":roll: and we counted over 3500 deer when both the migratory andresident deer were still there..absolutley breathtaking...


Steven

[killman]

The road does get nasty with wet snow.