ethical or not ethical?

[sparky300winmag]

I was wondering what the majority thought of this senerio: Guy shoots moose, moose heads into cover.Guy gets buddy heads down to camp and gets the rest of his buddies to help retrieve his moose but by the time they start to track the moose its pitch dark ,so using flashlights they head into the bush and find a blood trail , they follow the trail until their lights find the moose still standing and a stones throw away.Is it ethical to shoot that moose in the dark to finish him off ??

[6616]

I was wondering what the majority thought of this senerio: Guy shoots moose, moose heads into cover.Guy gets buddy heads down to camp and gets the rest of his buddies to help retrieve his moose but by the time they start to track the moose its pitch dark ,so using flashlights they head into the bush and find a blood trail , they follow the trail until their lights find the moose still standing and a stones throw away.Is it ethical to shoot that moose in the dark to finish him off ??

It would be unethical not to...!

[Sharkey]

Ethical vs Legal is more like it.... Ethically I'd want to end his suffering instead of letting the wolves do it for me (you didn't mention how injured he was). The crappy part is that it would be illegal to do so. Tough one.

[todbartell]

.....whack it.....

[steelheadSABO]

illegal but ethical thats what the regs say no night hunting but you must finish off your animal for a humane kill

[lip_ripper00]

Whack it, whack it twice. do it right this time:wink:

[brian]

Finish it off, it's suffering.

[donp]

Sorry got to say it... Why didn't the shooter take the time to make sure the animal was down before heading back to camp for the pack mules. If done so than this wouldn't/shouldn't be a problem. If no other choice and the animal is found still alive after dark then hit 'em again. Sorry, not trying to be a prick. Two more weeks and then I am on holidays for five weeks.

[6616]

I don't think any CO in his right mind would charge a hunter for finishing off a badly wounded animal that has no chance of surviving his wounds, no matter what the time of day.
Regulations cannot account for all potential situations, the intent of the regulation is to disallow pit lamping and dangerous night shooting activity. The intent of the regulation needs to be a consideration.

[Avalanche123]

I would shoot it again also.

[tomahawk]

The ethical answer is shoot it now if it is mortally wounded.

[NEEHAMA]

i think it i read somewhere , that you need to recover the animal.

i had a similar problem with a "winged" goose that just kept swimming away from me so i had to follow it with my boat. every time i got close killed the motor and pulled up the leg it would dive and swim away so i couldn't make a kill shot. i finally had to bend the rules.

[Huey]

rope him, ride him, then knife him! :)

[Gateholio]

Oh my..

I can think of at least one member who woudl shame the lot of you for suggesting you break the law, even though it may be the prudent thing to do....:wink:

[Mr. Dean]

I'll bite.
Why didn't shooter go find Moose BEFORE getting buddy?

I've wound this around in my head several times now and can't figure that out. The hunter knows the Moose is wounded yet see's it prudent to leave the area.... Baaaad call IMO.

This is another scenerio that just seems silly. :confused:

[sawmill]

I don't think any CO in his right mind would charge a hunter for finishing off a badly wounded animal that has no chance of surviving his wounds, no matter what the time of day.
Regulations cannot account for all potential situations, the intent of the regulation is to disallow pit lamping and dangerous night shooting activity. The intent of the regulation needs to be a consideration.

Don`t bet your rifle on it,

[Nankilslas]

My dad always told me to leave a wounded animal for a little while to let him lay down otherwise you could be chasing him for a long time.

[CanuckShooter]

No question, finish what you started. You'd be a very bad person to leave a wounded animal all night, and you'd have failed to make every effort to recover the animal....which is an offense under the wildlife act.

[abbyfireguy]

Shoot the poor thing.Thats it...
I would think it would be like shooting a moose on one side of the boundary then having him wander across the road into another M-U and fall over,follow the trail..
We are told to make a clean kill and are bound to recover the carcass and meat,but ,also, not to shoot after dark..
Which reg superseeds the other???
I know what I'd do and also be able to show the blood trail to the CO...
Mind you ,common sense does not always prevail in these odd situations.
They are not black and white ,and as we all have found out over the years,are open to differing interpretations by CO's. :cry:

[BiG Boar]

What if when you shot it another moose was laying down next to it and it was really the one you shot? What if now there are 2 dead moose? What if as you shot a duck flew into the bullets path and the bullet killed the duck but also deflected and killed a tiger that had escaped from the zoo. And just WHAT IF.....

[Steeleco]

If in the dark you can tell 100% its your beast and it's within the one hour of sunset rule, go for it, it's completely legal.

But like some of the others are thinking, unless your clip is empty, you've no business going for help!!

[shotgunjohn]

Changing the scenario does not answer the basic question.
O.K. here's a real life one from my own experience.
Shot a deer with about 20 minutes of legal time left. The deer was obviously hit but hobbled into thick brush. I couldn't find any blood and walked out all the obvious trails. Nothing. By now it's getting dark. Went to get help and came back with several people and our lab. We hadn't even got to the bush edge yet and dog starts barking. The deer stands up on three legs from under a thick cedar. It does not run and we can see the blood from the wound in our flashlights.
So now, What do you do?
I know what I did and I have no problem whatsoever with the ethics involved.

[Ron.C]

I agree,

If you are 100% sure you are putting down the animal you already wounded, I would have no problem making a finishing shot after dark while trying to locate the animal and would be ready to defend my actions if a CO or other hunter was challenging me on my decision.

[huntwriter]

I was wondering what the majority thought of this senerio: Guy shoots moose, moose heads into cover.Guy gets buddy heads down to camp and gets the rest of his buddies to help retrieve his moose but by the time they start to track the moose its pitch dark ,so using flashlights they head into the bush and find a blood trail , they follow the trail until their lights find the moose still standing and a stones throw away.Is it ethical to shoot that moose in the dark to finish him off ??

It would be the ethical thing to do but it is not legal. This is one of these situations were a hunter has to decide to follow the regulations or do the morally right thing.

In these cases I always would do what my morals and ethics demand of me. Provided I know that I wounded the animal and it wouldn’t survive the night. If the animal appears to be fine I would obey the law.

[happygilmore]

Not smart...any co would charge you, how can you make a safe shot with a flashlight? whats beyond the 20ft of light? their is nothing wrong or unethical about comming back in the morning... shooting it out of flashlight stupid! :confused:

[Steeleco]

Changing the scenario does not answer the basic question.
O.K. here's a real life one from my own experience.
Shot a deer with about 20 minutes of legal time left. The deer was obviously hit but hobbled into thick brush. I couldn't find any blood and walked out all the obvious trails. Nothing. By now it's getting dark. Went to get help and came back with several people and our lab. We hadn't even got to the bush edge yet and dog starts barking. The deer stands up on three legs from under a thick cedar. It does not run and we can see the blood from the wound in our flashlights.
So now, What do you do?
I know what I did and I have no problem whatsoever with the ethics involved.

In this scenario I'd do what should be done. Dispatch the animal.

[Brambles]

If I was sure it was the same moose I'd shoot it again, they make exceptions for shooting a swimming moose if it is wounded and to me this is just an extension of that principle.

But that moose better have more than one bullet hole in it if someone calls to complain and a CO stops by, if the reporter says he heard one gunshot after dark and there is two bullets in the animal then I think your safe, if there is only one then I think your in poop.

[Mr. Dean]

My dad always told me to leave a wounded animal for a little while to let him lay down otherwise you could be chasing him for a long time.

True and good reasoning..... But to leave the area????
A lot of intel can be had with simply pulling up a stump.


Changing the scenario does not answer the basic question.
O.K. here's a real life one from my own experience.
Shot a deer with about 20 minutes of legal time left. The deer was obviously hit but hobbled into thick brush. I couldn't find any blood and walked out all the obvious trails. Nothing. By now it's getting dark. Went to get help and came back with several people and our lab. We hadn't even got to the bush edge yet and dog starts barking. The deer stands up on three legs from under a thick cedar. It does not run and we can see the blood from the wound in our flashlights.
So now, What do you do?
I know what I did and I have no problem whatsoever with the ethics involved.

My thinking is the hunt is finished and the game now is one of recovery. The animal can't be recovered in a living state..... It's up to us to fix our mistakes.

A couple years back someone made the remark that a harvest of mine was a poached one. This was done a SOLID year after me taking the animal and had me thinking; "is he right?". A little phone tag w/ the local CO cleared things up.


If this was *my* mistake, I'd do what ever I thought prudent and make the call the very next day or at the earliest time that it could be done, all the while preserving the meat. If I were to lose it, it still gets used..... Then it would be off to the range for more practise, to ensure it not happening again. :wink:

[BCrams]

Here's a story about a buck my partner took one time up in Peace River.

We had permission to hunt a piece of property up in the Peace off the highway. I GPS'd the quarter mile off the highway and a bit more where we built a blind to wait for deer to enter the field (shooting direction away from the highway towards the bush / hill).

As expected, the nice buck we were after walked out following the does at dusk. I tell my partner to take him. The shot was approximatly 150 yards.

First shot - missed.

2nd shot - missed (clear buck fever)

3rd shot at the now running deer and he hits the hind leg but the buck is now careening into the 400 yard no hunting / no shooting zone - I decide its time to shoot to get the animal down while the shooting direction was still safe. I fire one shot and the animal stumbles and gets back up and keeps hobbling over the knoll.

We walk to the truck and head in the direction of the buck and find him bedded down 200 yards from the highway at the edge of the bush / ravine. (it is now getting pretty dark but we can still make him out). We align ourselves at an angle where the bullet will go away from the highway and I tell him to finish it off. Instead of going to his knee or onto his ass to shoot, he does it off hand and misses again and the buck bails over into the ravine. (thank god for snow).

So we bail over following his tracks / blood trail down to the bottom of the ravine (the buck angled towards the highway even closer).... get to the bottom and follow his tracks and find the buck .......bedded again 10 yards from the edge of the highway and very much alive. Quite the situation we were in eh.

We needed that buck out of his misery, so I told my partner to listen for traffic and with none heard, I shot and finished the buck off (not trusting him to get the job done at that point).

Ethical?? Given the circumstances - I thought it was.

BUT the story is not over.

I tell him to gut the animal and I'll go and get the truck and bring it around. I get to the field and there's the RCMP / CO waiting parked beside our truck. Everything from our truck has been put inside their vehicle ........

I walk over and the fellow asks me for my rifle (which is already unloaded) and tells me to get in his truck. Asks me to hand over my hunting licence etc....

He now asks me for the story whats going on with the shooting within the 400 m no hunting / no shooting zone.....in particular the last shot by the highway (which was well after legal shooting time).

Told the truth straight up from beginning to end including how many shots, who shot etc. Then he asks me, "take me to where you guys shot from." So we walk over there.....then he asks me to show him where the buck was when we first shot......then he asks me to take him to where the buck bedded down at the edge of the ravine (because I told him there was a lot of blood in the bed) .... we go over there and he sees the evidence. Then we go back to his truck and climb in...... what he said next was priceless......

He also measured the quartermile off the highway not with a GPS but one of those long tape measures with handle on it. The blind was at approx 430 meters off.

"You guys did what you had to do and I was looking to see if you would tell the truth...... I watched the whole show from up on the hill over there." where he pointed.... --- apparently someone phoned us in when they saw our blind (which was partially visible from the highway)......

He then gave me all the stuff back and came and gave us a hand loading the buck into the truck off the highway just so any passer by's didn't get any ideas and phone it in if they saw us.

The moral of the story is, in most cases, the RCMP / CO's will understand the circumstances (and this was a big one considering we ensured everything was safe etc to finish off the job). Most important - always tell the truth!! You never know if the CO or someone was already watching the whole time!!

One more thing - while he was watching us - he called the land owner to find out if he had let a couple guys onto the property to hunt.......

[doubled]

That is a great story. Thanks.

[Brambles]

Good story rams, thanks for taking the time to type out the whole thing.

[abbyfireguy]

Now that we've all "What if'd " it too death. In all reality I would really like to hear any CO defend his writing up of a hunter who tracked down and dispatched a badly wounded animal that was leaving a large enough blood trail to track after dark.
That would be very interesting, esspecially if it ended up in the courts.
I think the CO would look rather foolish if he wrote the ticket with blinders on and from a legaleze perspective..
Mind you, Mr. Rambo CO who worked out of Vanderhoof about 15-20 years ago(he was a real prize) would probably put his foot in it as he had a bad case of over inflated ego !!!:roll:
He did more to scare off kids and new hunters with his prick attitude.
Thank goodness most CO's will listen to your story and explanation before coming to their decision. But there are still a few who can't and won't deviate from the letter of the law. Those folks won't ever get a hot coffee at my campfire, can't stand miserable people like that.

[happygilmore]

Now that we've all "What if'd " it too death. In all reality I would really like to hear any CO defend his writing up of a hunter who tracked down and dispatched a badly wounded animal that was leaving a large enough blood trail to track after dark.
That would be very interesting, esspecially if it ended up in the courts.
I think the CO would look rather foolish if he wrote the ticket with blinders on and from a legaleze perspective..
Mind you, Mr. Rambo CO who worked out of Vanderhoof about 15-20 years ago(he was a real prize) would probably put his foot in it as he had a bad case of over inflated ego !!!:roll:
He did more to scare off kids and new hunters with his prick attitude.
Thank goodness most CO's will listen to your story and explanation before coming to their decision. But there are still a few who can't and won't deviate from the letter of the law. Those folks won't ever get a hot coffee at my campfire, can't stand miserable people like that.

You might get lucky and get off however I don't think so... Look at if from the point of a CO- he hears a shot after legal shooting time and goes to investigate! comes across you with a flashlight and a dead moose! when he asks you "was that you shooting?" and you say yes! done deal...you get a shiney pair of braceletts.
If you come across a deer hit by a car it's illegal for you to dispatch it! guys have been charged! and they had nothing to gain by doing the deer a service.
If your wounded animal enters private property you must first go contact the landowner or the co before going to go get it! you may have to wait till the next day before the co can get to you, you cannot use ethics to get around the law, weight the risks yourself at the time... is it worth loosing your guns...truck...hunting photos...freedom???

[sparky300winmag]

As for not going after it right away.He found blood but didn't know how well he shot ,therefore didn't want to push the animal.My brother lost a moose by going in after it and pushing it.In that instance we tracked that moose the next day ,found beds and also found a small cat was tracking it as well .We tracked it up a small mountain until we lost blood and found he had mixed up with some others,so track going every where.

[Ltbullken]

drop it... no other alternative.

[budismyhorse]

IF your story was legit, any investigating CO would be fine with it (likely), but if there was even a sniff of a wonky story, you would be under investigation and could face charges.

CO's are trained to pick apart stories and if they thought for a second you didn't in fact wound it during legal hunting hours you are in for it.

but in my books, that story is completely ethical.

great back story Rams, proves my point completely.

[Seeadler]

To my way of thinking, if an animal is wounded fairly like in this scenario, almost anything is ethical in finishing the job. The only reservation I would have is ensuring that it is the right animal.

[ape]

A little off topic but similar. I was hunting with buddy out at a lake that we always hunt at. We get down to the end of the lake and spot a cow. This is during calf season so we slowly get closer to her in the boat looking for a calf. We get to about 60 yrds and see she is dipping her face in and out of the water. When she comes up I notice that the bottom half of her jaw is blown off and hanging there. Some arse tried for the head shot and wounded her bad. So across the lake we go and call the CO from the resort and he tells me even though I have no tag that if she is severely wounded like that that I should shoot her and finnish her off. So in a long stretched way I guess I am saying that I would finnish it off.

[mikethemilkman]

daryl do we need to talk?

[Paulyman]

You gotta wait till day light ;)