shot at in the dark in the 4-03 gong show!

[humble hunter]

We just returned a day early from the 4-03 senior/ junior gong show. I can not believe what a s**t show this was. I was walking in to my favprite cut block to sit and watch in the evening and ran into a guy about 70 years old with the gear of the same age. I informed him that he was at 1500m and he replied that he was looking for 6 X 6 elk. We thought to ourselves (yeah right). Anyways I did not think of it again and my friend and I walked into our seperate blinds for the evening hunt. We each saw some cow elk and small bucks but no bulls. At dark we talked on the radio and elkmaster C decided to go out through the top of the cut block and meet another friend who was watching the very top block and I would walk down to the truck and drive around and pick them up. I was walking out in the dark down the road and heard something on the fire break. I looked through my bino's in the moonlight and made out a couple of elk, I then continued on my way. Suddenly a shot rang out from the trees about 50 yards to my right. It is now pitch dark a full hour after sunset. I hit the dirt and yelled that I was a human and heard nothing. I yelled at my friends on the radio to call the police and the c.o. and note the time of the shot very loudly so that the guy in the trees could hear. I got up and yelled all the way to the truck. I got into the truck and picked up my buddies, where we met 2 more trucks that had been on the top of the mountain. They said that they had heard the shot and could not believe how late it was. I told them waht had happened and they said there were no more trucks behind them. We raced down the mountain and waited at the only exit from the road. No more trucks came out, which is lucky for the guy. I am sure it was the 70 year old guy we had seen earlier but we were not able to find him which is lucky for him (and me) as I was fully going to beat him senseless and break his gun in 2 regardless of his age. This is the first time I have even heard of this (I know it happens) but I have never known any one. I should have walked out with a headlamp but I did not want to spook the elk. Anyways, this senior season is unbelievable. I apologize to you seniors that are actually hunters and that do follow the rules of the elevation but there were many cows shot at the tops of mountains and alot of poeple had no idea that there was an elevation limit or evan an area that it was restricted to. Shots were going off very late (headlight elk) we heard them from our camp. There were young guys driving around with a half dead senior in the back seat that held a liscence 10 years prior. I was curious how the senior would be able to climb out of the back seat to shoot the elk. My dad just turned 65 this year and is a true hunter, he wanted to leave early without his elk because he did not want to hunt in this gong show any more. We also got a note on our truck stating that if we ever "kicked my brother out of his hunting spot again we would regret it" I have no idea what this meant but probably mistaken identity as we heard many arguements of guys driving trucks around. I WILL NEVER RETURN FOR THIS SENIOR SEASON AGAIN! I am also writing a letter to the ministry about it. I feel it should be cancelled and just more LEH tags given out. :mad:

[mcrae]

Thats a crappy way to end the hunt sorry to hear about the nonsense...

[moosinaround]

Too bad! It sucks when you hear the boom but don't know where it is coming from, or if there is another on the way! I can imagine MU 7-20A in the peace will be just like this with the antlerless GOS starting today! Moosin

[Aaron Blom]

It is a complete and utter waste of a resource over there right now. My uncle has found two cows shot and not recovered. We talked to one pick up with a 65+ hunter who thought that it was wide open this year and that they did not have to be above 1100 m, ooops guess they didn't read the regs at all. We did get into some action above the gong show. Good time to not hunt the lowlands though, way safer.

[In4TheHunt]

It makes you wonder why all special seasons exsist.
Fathers hunting in junior season, guys bringing old men with them to sit in the back seat. And on top of all that getting shot at...Man that sucks.

It is hard to make a case for hunting in general with stuff like this going on.

anyway sorry about your SHORT hunt

[The Hermit]

Yup I heard enough late evening gunfire in the "Archery Only" season to make me shake my head!

[rishu_pepper]

Just glad to hear no one is hurt. Must've been scary..

[Tikka7mm]

what a joke....this happened to us last year in reg-4 as well. We were hunting about 150 yards off the road and we saw a spike bull cross the field across from us so we decided to move in for a closer look...sure enough along comes another bull 2x3 so we're starting to get a little excited. The 2 bulls are about 100 yards apart and are now about 20 to 30 yards from the road and we are about 50 yards from the road just adjacent from them.

We could hear a vehicle approaching and sure as shit the vehicle we could hear (a truck) flies by and then slams on it's brakes. The guys in this truck spot these 2 small bulls. As soon as they're done coming to a sliding stop one guy comes flying out of the passenger side and starts lettin them rip at one of these bulls. I couldn't tell which one from where I was standing but all of a sudden I see the old guy raise his gun....BOOOM! I'm looking at the guy and I'm half shocked thinking to myself is this guy seeing the same thing as us?...what is he doing?

I hear the bolt slide back and slam forward again...BOOOM! and over again BOOOM!.....every time he takes a shot the barrel flys up 60 degrees towards the sky and back down again. My buddy starts screaming at the guy WTF ARE SHOOTIN AT YOU CRAZY OLD F**CKER...WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I'm screaming HEEEY!....HEEEY!...HEEEY!...trying to get the guys attention all this happens in a matter of about 15 - 20 seconds.

After the driver realizes what is going on and sees us he hops out of the driver seat and screams at his partner and says, CHARLIE! CHARLIE!....WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU DOING....? THOSE ARE BULLS YOU'RE SHOOTIN AT.... GET BACK IN THE TRUCK!

The old guy stops and looks at his buddy, looks over at us...and we're still just standing there in disbelief. The shooter turns around for the truck and quickly trots over to the passenger side again slams the door and flies off up the road at 8000 rpm with his buddy. I think he was both embarrassed and scared sh*tless because he didn't realize we were there until it was almost too late. The amazing thing is he didn't hit either of those bulls... the damn elk, along with the old shooter, had horse shoes up their asses and they just kept moving. We never did get a plate or anything it all happened so fast. Then all of a sudden they were gone and we're thinking what in the F just happened?

I don't know what we would of done if he'd of hit one of them?

[finish]

the shots in the archery season could have been Junior deer hunters, as far as the sh!t feilds go, it can get scary, I try to stay away.

[oldsalt]

Sounds like the old guy just came out for one last hurrah then pulled the trigger, maybe why no one came out, he is still laying there.:sad:

[Elkaholic]

Another problem is that people just assume under 1100m is safe. Well if you look at the maps its only certain parts of the certain mu's. Even in some spots where there is terrain below that elevation it is not open. People should learn to read the damn regs. Last year we had 3 trucks with old timers in it on the top of the mountain looking for cows. We told them that if they actually read the regulations they would know this is not in the zone. To which they kindly told us to F off and was on their merry way. This whole season is a gong show. Maybe is the government didn't cut everything and had enough CO's to actually not be a joke they call enforcement, it might work better.

[humble hunter]

After talking to the c.o. about this his reply was that
1)they have too many elk in the east kootneys
2)they need to get more poeple hunting
I did not get the impression that he really cared much. He also stated that next year alot of the motor restricted area were going to be lifted as they could not properly enforce them and so many complaints were coming in of poeple just going in anyways.

[4570hunter]

Same thing happened to me one year I was in a tree stand in camo, This coyote is in the field looking for mice I guess. All of a sudden 45 degress to my left this old guy starts shooting at this coyote. He is missing and the bullets are snapping the branches below me. He shot 19 times with his M14 which looked like a 30 clip on it. Sometimes people don't think what they are doing and its gonna kill someone very soon.

[blacklab]

It seems to me if you are there, you were part of the gong show.
This sight is starting to get a little tiring so far this week we've beat up old hunters, antlerless deer hunters and road hunters, oh and some guy that wants to let his kid shoot a grouse.
And it's only Tuesday

[6616]

Another problem is that people just assume under 1100m is safe. Well if you look at the maps its only certain parts of the certain mu's. Even in some spots where there is terrain below that elevation it is not open. People should learn to read the damn regs. Last year we had 3 trucks with old timers in it on the top of the mountain looking for cows. We told them that if they actually read the regulations they would know this is not in the zone. To which they kindly told us to F off and was on their merry way. This whole season is a gong show. Maybe is the government didn't cut everything and had enough CO's to actually not be a joke they call enforcement, it might work better.

There are very good detailed maps available on the MOE site showing the LEH zones X, the Jr-Sr GOS/bow zone area. Note that there are islands within the zones that are over 1100 meters but are still open since they are completelly encompassed by the GOS zone, see Premier ridge, Plumbob Mt, etc. The purple line is the 1100 meter line, anything yellow is open. These are good maps and can be expanded for close-up views and all logging roads are show in brown. There is really no excuse for being out of the zone.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/elk_1100m_0708maps/Elk_BowOnly_Zone_X.pdf

[humble hunter]

It seems to me if you are there, you were part of the gong show.
This sight is starting to get a little tiring so far this week we've beat up old hunters, antlerless deer hunters and road hunters, oh and some guy that wants to let his kid shoot a grouse.
And it's only Tuesday

Are you kidding me?? I am all for resposible hunting for anyone of any age! We have been hunting this area for 15 years on these same dates. This new senior/junior season has come in with the first year being last year and it has become a gong show. I have never been shot at before. If you did not read my post, we left our hunt early and also stayed in camp alot of the time. We also rode our mountain bikes into the motorized restricted area to get away from it and poeple were comin g in ot these areas on their quads. Why should we even have any rules, why not just make it a free for all like it used to be.

[budismyhorse]

There are very good detailed maps available on the MOE site showing the LEH zones X, the Jr-Sr GOS/bow zone area. Note that there are islands within the zones that are over 1100 meters but are still open since they are completelly encompassed by the GOS zone, see Premier ridge, Plumbob Mt, etc. The purple line is the 1100 meter line, anything yellow is open. These are good maps and can be expanded for close-up views and all logging roads are show in brown. There is really no excuse for being out of the zone.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/elk_1100m_0708maps/Elk_BowOnly_Zone_X.pdf


Andy,

just kind of lurking this thread as it doesn't pertain to me, but, with that being said, the high elevation "islands" you mention are actually open regardless of the fact that they are above the 1100 m mark? if so that could be confusing to some and the root of a bit of frustration.

[325]

I don't like the seniors season at all. I hunted the EK for bow season and the first two days of rifle. I heard lots of shooting during the archery season, and once the rifle season started I saw lots of silverbacks....mostly sitting in the back seat with a couple of young guys in the front.

The whole thing is a goddamn slaughter. We talked with three "hunters", one senior and two guys in their early 40s. The young guys reported that they had shot and wounded a bull and a cow...coudn't find them though....makes me sick. One of the young guys said he was shooting at a bull at 450 yards while it was running. What the ****!. Makes me embarrassed to hunt.

[rocksteady]

Last year was similar, this year I find it to be a lot worse.....

I also found that the pressure last year influenced the elk til the very end of the season, cause remember LEh antlerless (2 rounds ) are coming up after the jr/sr season.....

I do agree that this is not the way to deal with thinning out the numbers of home steader elk......

If the elk are hitting the hay piles in Nov/Dec/Jan how about some LEH for that time frame, similar to the Peace?????

[humble hunter]

Last year was similar, this year I find it to be a lot worse.....

I also found that the pressure last year influenced the elk til the very end of the season, cause remember LEh antlerless (2 rounds ) are coming up after the jr/sr season.....

I do agree that this is not the way to deal with thinning out the numbers of home steader elk......

If the elk are hitting the hay piles in Nov/Dec/Jan how about some LEH for that time frame, similar to the Peace?????


1000% in agreement with you!!!

[Wild one]

When I first heard of the youth/senior seasons I did not think any thing bad about them but now that I have seen the problems they are causing my mind is starting to change. I am seeing these season creating more of a new way to poach than bringing in new hunters or get others to take up the sport again. I think the people who are using the seasons correctly are people who would still hunt if these seasons did not go on. I don't think we need these seasons but need more people willing to mentor.

[Elkaholic]

There are very good detailed maps available on the MOE site showing the LEH zones X, the Jr-Sr GOS/bow zone area. Note that there are islands within the zones that are over 1100 meters but are still open since they are completelly encompassed by the GOS zone, see Premier ridge, Plumbob Mt, etc. The purple line is the 1100 meter line, anything yellow is open. These are good maps and can be expanded for close-up views and all logging roads are show in brown. There is really no excuse for being out of the zone.

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/hunting/resident/docs/elk_1100m_0708maps/Elk_BowOnly_Zone_X.pdf

I am agreeing with you 6616, and most time its just people being plain ignorant.

[Ron.C]

I don't think it has anything to do with a youth/senior season. Those that will shoot after legal hours during darkness or hunt in violation to the regulations claiming ignorance will do so in a regular open season as well. As for 4-3 and surrounding areas, yes, it is a gong show. I only spent 1 1/2 days bowhunting the cow zone around cranbrook this year and I had never seen that many people in my old haunts. But it's open to all not just those that have hunted there for years. My old hunting partners lost their prime area because someone beat them to it this year. I guess in the end I pitty the guy who is following the rules and trying to introduce a youth to hunting and catching flac for any of this crap..

[blacktailslayer]

You can't blame all hunters for this, shutting it down would be detrimental to hunting. Unfortunately there are some guys out there who take a "half dead senior", just to shoot an elk. Want a simple solution? Have these senior/junior seasons before any other open seasons. What is the difference in shooting a cow elk at the end of Aug or early Sept?That way anyone else caught carrying a firearm hunting will be charged.
I know a fellow in the Kootenays' who watched a 170-180 gross whitetail walk a way because the young guy he took out could not get a good shot. He could have shot it 10 times. So there are some honest hunters out there just trying to get kids invloved with our sport.

[Schmaus]

Holy crap wah wah wah, this is hilarious. What did everybody expect when they went hunting into these open places? This would be like me going up north and then crying because there are lots of people around. Get over it and just go someplace else :(

[rocksteady]

Holy crap wah wah wah, this is hilarious. What did everybody expect when they went hunting into these open places? This would be like me going up north and then crying because there are lots of people around. Get over it and just go someplace else :(

Even though you don't seem to agree with concerns raised by others, there seems to be very serious Ethical, MOral and Illegal issues involved with this season. There is plenty of room for the hunters and the elk, but some people are just ruining for others by their antics...

[2slow]

Pretty scary experience makes you wonder if all the guys on the site that don't think this is a problem were the same ones that think its ok to have a senior along just to use there tag

[BEARSLAYER]

I began hunting in 1963 . My father told me never do anything you wouldnt proud of in the light of day. This would seem to be the focus of all the talk .I quit hunting in1989 for the very reasons all of you are so discusted. It took me two years to get my head around the fact that if I quit the only one that loses its me.I now think talking to people in the field ,recording plates on offenders and teaching youth is the way to go. A gps and a camera is always with me.

[Avalanche123]

Wow sounds like a place and season to avoid. Too bad people are not respecting the various restrictions and the enforcement seems so slack.

[6616]

Andy,

just kind of lurking this thread as it doesn't pertain to me, but, with that being said, the high elevation "islands" you mention are actually open regardless of the fact that they are above the 1100 m mark? if so that could be confusing to some and the root of a bit of frustration.

It definitely is confusing to a lot of hunters, I have heard several arguements between hunters about whether these islands are open or not. It doesn't need to be confusing as far as I can see, it's clear on the maps that these islands are open, all they have to do is download the maps. Maybe the maps need to be on a site that's not so hard to find, but I also believe there is a link to the site in the regulations.

I am somewhat confused as to why there would be so much confusion over this when the maps are readily available.

[6616]

On the whole thread, it's too bad the bad apples spoil the whole box. The flotsam always floats to the surface for all to see. There may be a lot of flotsam out there, but there's also a lot of good guys out there too who are going unnoticed.
I know a couple old guys from Kimberley who haven't hunted in years, but last fall and this fall they each shot a cow elk. One of them owns a 1/4 section of private pasture where they hunt and they just sit on lawn chairs in a makeshift blind waiting for the elk to go by. Then they go get their tractor and pick-up the elk, all on private property. They love this Sr season and really appreciate the opportunity and I would hate to see it taken away from the good guys because there are some azzholes out there.

[T bone]

As far as i am concerned the maps are pretty easy to figure out,but i have a question for 6616,you say these islands are open,lets use plumbob mnt for example,if a person is hunting under leh cow calf or the jr/ senior season the regs state they have to be below the 1100m line and hunting within the zone x designated area?and does this mean above the 1100m line on plumbob is six points or better or are you saying that the whole mountian is open for the leh cow calf season and jr/ senior season,just a little confused on your post,maybe i missed something i dont know.

[Deerwhacker]

I know that when you are hunting in a season the specifies zone x those islands are fair game( such as the bow season) i hunt that mountain myself and the regs state that zone x perimeter is 1100m outside the trench and that is the only reference to 1100 m the same way as some other special area maps are governed by waterways or mountain tops to establish a perimeter.all the maps have a couloured in area and state that the coulered in area is zone x.a few years ago the eather sex bow season map was couloured in half way up the mountain up to the 1100m mark but has since been changed to include the whole mountain in "Zone x".

[humble hunter]

From the c.o in cranbrook direct: plumbob mountain is open to cow calf BELOW the 1100 meter mark. I asked him the question directly.

[6616]

As far as i am concerned the maps are pretty easy to figure out,but i have a question for 6616,you say these islands are open,lets use plumbob mnt for example,if a person is hunting under leh cow calf or the jr/ senior season the regs state they have to be below the 1100m line and hunting within the zone x designated area?and does this mean above the 1100m line on plumbob is six points or better or are you saying that the whole mountian is open for the leh cow calf season and jr/ senior season,just a little confused on your post,maybe i missed something i dont know.

The whole mountain is open. The regs actually "do not" state you have to be below the 1100 meter line, the regs merely state that you need to refer to map D3a. There is also a link to the detailed maps at the bottom of D3a as well as in the season dates charts footers.

Below D3a it states the zone encompasses land on or below the 1100 meter line, but the maps in the regulations are pretty useless and the descriptions are pretty vague, that's why the link is there I persume. They refer to this map as Zone x, bow only, and Senior/youth season map.

When you go to the detailed map on the web you will see that the zone is colored yellow and these islands are also colored yellow which means they are part of the x-zone and open for the bow season, senior/youth season and the antlerless LEH. You will note that in the Moyie area all of the islands are not colored yellow, thus they are not open. Anything that's yellow is open.

[Remington]

Hmm sounds all to familar with the Youth seasons Ive experienced during bow season...lol. But hey whatever they're supposedly recruiting more hunters?? This year I saw a truck full of kids that found it easier to shoot another buck rather than chase the ones they had Gut shot.

In fact these special intrest hunts are working so well in my opinion I think we should also have 2 more new season hunts to recruit more hunters. We'll have a womens only season and a visible minority season... yep yep those should be great ones as well. I just cant wait.....:rolleyes:

[Gateholio]

On the whole thread, it's too bad the bad apples spoil the whole box. The flotsam always floats to the surface for all to see. There may be a lot of flotsam out there, but there's also a lot of good guys out there too who are going unnoticed.
I.


And, IMHO, that is who we shoudl be managing for. Manage for the GOOD apples, do not react BECASUE of the bad apples.

There are people that will take advantage of any "loophole" and there are the majority- Who will comply wiht what it's supposed to be about.

I went with my dad fishing recently- (It's posted on the fishing area)- and if he was still a hunter, and there was a "Senior" season near us- I'd be takign him out, and I'd help him get a deer or elk or whatever. I'd chaffeur him around until we found a good spot without too much uphill, and hope to find a deer. I bet he'd enjoy that.

[Remington]

Ooooh And I almost forgot to promote the great sport of Road hunting during these seasons. Yep Yep ya cant beat that. :rolleyes::roll:

[Gateholio]

Ooooh And I almost forgot to promote the great sport of Road hunting during these seasons. Yep Yep ya cant beat that. :rolleyes::roll:

Many juniors and seniors arent' capable of extended hikes through uneven terrain.

I'd have zero issues driving my dad around, and getting him to bail out and shoot an animal.

:)

[6616]

Ooooh And I almost forgot to promote the great sport of Road hunting during these seasons. Yep Yep ya cant beat that. :rolleyes::roll:

Judgmental,,, or what..?

[T bone]

The whole mountain is open. The regs actually "do not" state you have to be below the 1100 meter line, the regs merely state that you need to refer to map D3a. There is also a link to the detailed maps at the bottom of D3a as well as in the season dates charts footers.

Below D3a it states the zone encompasses land on or below the 1100 meter line, but the maps in the regulations are pretty useless and the descriptions are pretty vague, that's why the link is there I persume. They refer to this map as Zone x, bow only, and Senior/youth season map.

When you go to the detailed map on the web you will see that the zone is colored yellow and these islands are also colored yellow which means they are part of the x-zone and open for the bow season, senior/youth season and the antlerless LEH. You will note that in the Moyie area all of the islands are not colored yellow, thus they are not open. Anything that's yellow is open.

Ok Thanks,what you are saying does make sense but on my friends cow calf leh authorization under special instructions it states on crown land at or below 1100m,if you what you are saying is correct then what is the reason for these special instructions.

[Mr. Dean]

Pretty scary experience makes you wonder if all the guys on the site that don't think this is a problem were the same ones that think its ok to have a senior along just to use there tag

My old man (FIL) would love an opprotunity such as this. This post implies that just because it's me that's taking him out for a tour, I can be regarded as a poacher (???).

Whatever. :-?

[6616]

Ok Thanks,what you are saying does make sense but on my friends cow calf leh authorization under special instructions it states on crown land at or below 1100m,if you what you are saying is correct then what is the reason for these special instructions.

I don't know, perhaps the 1100 meters is a only generic boundary for the x-zone. It is the primary boundary on the sides of the main Trench, but not on the north and south ends of the x-zone, or at the mouths of the tributaries. I'm only stating what the map indicates is the x-zone.

You're sure right Budismyhorse, this is highly confusing.

[J_T]

6616 - you're right, this whole thread reeks of anger and judgement. Yes, it's unfortunate when our hunt is interupted, or when there is more competition for the animal of our pursuit.

Gatehouse - and you would love the opportunity to take your Dad out. That's what I did last year (he took a cow) and now I'm sure there are many on this thread who saw us as a "guy" with a "half dead senior" in the back seat. But I'll tell ya, my ole man may be 80 but he's got more integrity that most that have responded inappropriately to this thread.

Not so Humble Hunter - The CO's don't always know. Quite frankly, even the CO's in Reg 4, don't always know. Three years ago we had to explain to the CO that an archery in bow only season can take a doe. I'm sorry for your experience, no one wants to see that, be a part of it and likely most of all, the guy that fired the gun regrets it. But we all need to be a bit more tolerant. Racing around, calling RCMP, CO's seems like feeding on our own. Everyone makes mistakes.

I'm a bowhunter and guys on this site are always telling me to quit whining, if I don't want my hunt interfered with by a youth rifle or a quad user, then go somewhere else. Clearly, the same applies to those GOS 6 pt hunters that are hunting near agricultural lands.

6616 - as we reshape the zone x agricultural land, I would like to see us work with Tara to redefine those boundaries, make them less consistent with an elevation and more consistent with targeting the elk we want to harvest. If your hunting at 1200 metres, your still hunting a homesteader sub 1100 metre elk.

Sorry all, I just saw far to much judgement on this thread. And that is way more bullshit than seeing an oldtimer with limited miles left in his knees getting out for one more thrill, I don't care if the seniors make mistakes. We all do. The regs are NOT easy to read, most of all those maps. Most of us over 40 need a friggin magnifying glass to read those postage stamp maps in the regs.

[rocksteady]

My old man (FIL) would love an opprotunity such as this. This post implies that just because it's me that's taking him out for a tour, I can be regarded as a poacher (???).
:-?

There are SOME individuals who bring along a senior or junior just so that they (the non jr or sr.) can shoot a round head and use the jr/sr's tag. Similar to the thread about the hunters whacking deer in the jr. only season and getting the kid to tag it....

Don't take it personally that anyone is "implying" specifically to you...There are PEOPLE though, that do this to bend the rules to their advantage.....

It's no different than any other rule, there is always people who try to use it to their own personal advantage, in order to get what they want....

The "bad apples" like this tend to leave a bad taste in the mouth of those ethical hunters who are not willing to bend the rules or tolerate it.....

It boils down to each individual having their own standard of ethics....Some have high, some are extremely low....

If everyone in this world was ethical and legal, we would not need CO's, or police for that matter....

[humble hunter]

6616 - you're right, this whole thread reeks of anger and judgement. Yes, it's unfortunate when our hunt is interupted, or when there is more competition for the animal of our pursuit.

Gatehouse - and you would love the opportunity to take your Dad out. That's what I did last year (he took a cow) and now I'm sure there are many on this thread who saw us as a "guy" with a "half dead senior" in the back seat. But I'll tell ya, my ole man may be 80 but he's got more integrity that most that have responded inappropriately to this thread.

Not so Humble Hunter - The CO's don't always know. Quite frankly, even the CO's in Reg 4, don't always know. Three years ago we had to explain to the CO that an archery in bow only season can take a doe. I'm sorry for your experience, no one wants to see that, be a part of it and likely most of all, the guy that fired the gun regrets it. But we all need to be a bit more tolerant. Racing around, calling RCMP, CO's seems like feeding on our own. Everyone makes mistakes.

I'm a bowhunter and guys on this site are always telling me to quit whining, if I don't want my hunt interfered with by a youth rifle or a quad user, then go somewhere else. Clearly, the same applies to those GOS 6 pt hunters that are hunting near agricultural lands.

6616 - as we reshape the zone x agricultural land, I would like to see us work with Tara to redefine those boundaries, make them less consistent with an elevation and more consistent with targeting the elk we want to harvest. If your hunting at 1200 metres, your still hunting a homesteader sub 1100 metre elk.

Sorry all, I just saw far to much judgement on this thread. And that is way more bullshit than seeing an oldtimer with limited miles left in his knees getting out for one more thrill, I don't care if the seniors make mistakes. We all do. The regs are NOT easy to read, most of all those maps. Most of us over 40 need a friggin magnifying glass to read those postage stamp maps in the regs.

I have no problem with seniors driving around to harvest a cow elk as long as they are the ones doing it and they are in their area. I am not going to shoot my dads cow, that is why we hunted at the tops of the mountains to get away from the crowds and he hunted below. As far the c.o not knowing, what is that supposed to mean. I think I will err on the side of caution here and when a c.o. tells me something I think it is in my best interests to obey what he says rather than try to dig myself out of a mess later. I think it comes down to respect, if everyone treated each other the way they would like to be treated we would have no problems. If I see a truck parked at the entrance to a cut block we turn around and let the guy who got there first have his hunt as I would like to have the same courtesy.

[6616]

6616 - as we reshape the zone x agricultural land, I would like to see us work with Tara to redefine those boundaries, make them less consistent with an elevation and more consistent with targeting the elk we want to harvest. If your hunting at 1200 metres, your still hunting a homesteader sub 1100 metre elk.


I am very anxious about the defined boundaries for of the x-zone in the East Kootenay. As you know the province is working on a provincial ag-zone program and the ag-zone will be the ALR in most cases, and special wildlife population objectives will be established for the ag-zone which will be a much lower than non-ag-zone areas and which will give the priority to ag-activities over wildlife. The resource management priority for the ALR is already established by the Agriculture Land commission Act as first priority for agriculture. This seems logical in most areas of BC since the ALR is usually private land.

As I mentioned at the KHWAC meeting "the ALR in the EK ecompasses lots of Crown Land" and includes the permitted cattle grazing land, which in turn also includes most of our UWR. I would not like to see ag-zone wildlife population density objectives established for that much territory in the EK, especially when they include the winter ranges. Our wildlife is just too dependent on those low elevation winter ranges and I'm worried about the overall regional management objectives for elk and deer that Victoria could ram down our throats.

If they establish the current x-zone as part of the provincial ag-zone, what population objectives will be established? Will these population objectives apply to wintering or summer populations? I can see the potential for a large controversial and contentious issue brewing regarding the cattle tenure/UWR overlap areas.

Here is the map of the ALR in the Kootenay's.
http://www.alc.gov.bc.ca/Commission/Panels/maps/Kootenay.htm

[Mr. Dean]

There are SOME individuals who bring along a senior or junior just so that they (the non jr or sr.) can shoot a round head and use the jr/sr's tag. Similar to the thread about the hunters whacking deer in the jr. only season and getting the kid to tag it....

Don't take it personally that anyone is "implying" specifically to you...There are PEOPLE though, that do this to bend the rules to their advantage.....

It's no different than any other rule, there is always people who try to use it to their own personal advantage, in order to get what they want....

The "bad apples" like this tend to leave a bad taste in the mouth of those ethical hunters who are not willing to bend the rules or tolerate it.....

It boils down to each individual having their own standard of ethics....Some have high, some are extremely low....

If everyone in this world was ethical and legal, we would not need CO's, or police for that matter....

I didn't.
The quote I tagged was was pretty much a random draw of several like it... there seems to be a LOT of speculation in this thread and very limited facts.

Most of what *I* see is a bunch of hunters that aren't used to the pressure that the new season brought on. This was speculated earlier on in the year. Several regions have had a re-vamp/loosening up of the reg's, while adjoining regions were past over. It doesn't take much to see where the highest #'s will be headed.

Which is exactly why Pop's and I aren't attending this one.... :wink:


People get excited about 'new' stuff and are eager to jump on the band-wagon. The region needs some serious thinning out IMO. What is happening NOW will be for the better, in years to come.

Lets remember that this season is a conservation measure for the betterment of the herds. :smile:

If it's still around for a couple more seasons and people get the jump out of their beans, Pop's and I will likely join in. He hunted that area for nearly 20 years. He backed out only when his hunting partner passed on. It's something that is dearly missed and now, he has to work around the fact that he's aging also - This season is a good idea, for he and others like him. In design, it just what the doctor ordered!

[J_T]

Yes, I agree Andy, that is also why I have a concern about just picking an elevation. It isn't consistent with detailing management plans.

We agree, elk don't differentiate between crown and private winter range. Unless they bump into a high fence.

We need to keep the pressure on the Ministry to ensure a balanced approach and collaborative objectives.

I want MORE elk. Sorry. Perhaps a little more restoration of transitional ranges could become part of a focus.

[Schmaus]

Most of what *I* see is a bunch of hunters that aren't used to the pressure that the new season brought on. This was speculated earlier on in the year. Several regions have had a re-vamp/loosening up of the reg's, while adjoining regions were past over. It doesn't take much to see where the highest #'s will be headed.


This is what I was getting at, just sounded like a bunch of people whining about too many hunters.

[rocksteady]

too many hunters.

Unethical, unsafe "hunters"......More like it....

[Schmaus]

The more hunters around the better the odds your gonna meet somebody you don't like

[budismyhorse]

It definitely is confusing to a lot of hunters, I have heard several arguements between hunters about whether these islands are open or not. It doesn't need to be confusing as far as I can see, it's clear on the maps that these islands are open, all they have to do is download the maps. Maybe the maps need to be on a site that's not so hard to find, but I also believe there is a link to the site in the regulations.

I am somewhat confused as to why there would be so much confusion over this when the maps are readily available.

I agree with you Andy, but the reality is....

Most hunters don't look at the ministry maps and don't even know how to turn a computer on and sure as heck couldn't find one on the website (you are right, it isn't easy), they just hear about the 1100m mark and go from there.

A quick poll around the office the last few days tells me not many guys even knew there were islands open in those areas. Soooo, if those guys hit those areas and see people smacking cows up there then you have a fight with no downloadable maps nearby to save the day.

[2slow]

My old man (FIL) would love an opprotunity such as this. This post implies that just because it's me that's taking him out for a tour, I can be regarded as a poacher (???).

Whatever. :-?
If you use your dads tag then that would make you a poacher your not suggesting that is what you would do is it? From your posts I have read on the past I don't believe that this is the case and you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

[Mr. Dean]

If you use your dads tag then that would make you a poacher your not suggesting that is what you would do is it? From your posts I have read on the past I don't believe that this is the case and you are misunderstanding what I am saying.

Absolutely NOT!
I don't poach.

......From a group of posts that tied silver-hairs and young bucks in a vehicle,,, that was the inference that I saw. As a whole, they read as though its the younger fella's doin the shooting on Pappy's tag.... Just because they're together.

Not picking on you,,, just picked a post from several. Hunting IS all about time being shared amoungst people that are loved and held dear. For many it's "Quality Time". No different than a 45 year old Dad having his 12 year old kid coming along.... The age's shouldn't matter.

[J_T]

Most hunters don't look at the ministry maps and don't even know how to turn a computer on and sure as heck couldn't find one on the website Oh oh, there goes recruitment. When electronic licensing comes out.... :razz:

Sometimes I'm surprised at how techno savy the older guys are. My Dads dashboard lights up with all sorts of bells and whistles (GPS, back up camera, Sirrius radio)

[6616]

I agree with you Andy, but the reality is....

Most hunters don't look at the ministry maps and don't even know how to turn a computer on and sure as heck couldn't find one on the website (you are right, it isn't easy), they just hear about the 1100m mark and go from there.

A quick poll around the office the last few days tells me not many guys even knew there were islands open in those areas. Soooo, if those guys hit those areas and see people smacking cows up there then you have a fight with no downloadable maps nearby to save the day.

I agree, the longer this thread goes on it becomes more clear that there is a lot of confusion about this, seems some of the COs might not even be sure what's right. Sounds like it's pretty chaotic out there. I wonder how many of those under 1100 meter hunters are carrying GPS or altimeters of some sort?

[TRACKnTRAIL]

You guys seem to forget these senoirs are the ones who taught many of you to hunt. In my opinion they should have a special season long before bow hunters.

[TRACKnTRAIL]

We just returned a day early from the 4-03 senior/ junior gong show. I can not believe what a s**t show this was. I was walking in to my favprite cut block to sit and watch in the evening and ran into a guy about 70 years old with the gear of the same age. I informed him that he was at 1500m and he replied that he was looking for 6 X 6 elk. We thought to ourselves (yeah right). Anyways I did not think of it again and my friend and I walked into our seperate blinds for the evening hunt. We each saw some cow elk and small bucks but no bulls. At dark we talked on the radio and elkmaster C decided to go out through the top of the cut block and meet another friend who was watching the very top block and I would walk down to the truck and drive around and pick them up. I was walking out in the dark down the road and heard something on the fire break. I looked through my bino's in the moonlight and made out a couple of elk, I then continued on my way. Suddenly a shot rang out from the trees about 50 yards to my right. It is now pitch dark a full hour after sunset. I hit the dirt and yelled that I was a human and heard nothing. I yelled at my friends on the radio to call the police and the c.o. and note the time of the shot very loudly so that the guy in the trees could hear. I got up and yelled all the way to the truck. I got into the truck and picked up my buddies, where we met 2 more trucks that had been on the top of the mountain. They said that they had heard the shot and could not believe how late it was. I told them waht had happened and they said there were no more trucks behind them. We raced down the mountain and waited at the only exit from the road. No more trucks came out, which is lucky for the guy. I am sure it was the 70 year old guy we had seen earlier but we were not able to find him which is lucky for him (and me) as I was fully going to beat him senseless and break his gun in 2 regardless of his age. This is the first time I have even heard of this (I know it happens) but I have never known any one. I should have walked out with a headlamp but I did not want to spook the elk. Anyways, this senior season is unbelievable. I apologize to you seniors that are actually hunters and that do follow the rules of the elevation but there were many cows shot at the tops of mountains and alot of poeple had no idea that there was an elevation limit or evan an area that it was restricted to. Shots were going off very late (headlight elk) we heard them from our camp. There were young guys driving around with a half dead senior in the back seat that held a liscence 10 years prior. I was curious how the senior would be able to climb out of the back seat to shoot the elk. My dad just turned 65 this year and is a true hunter, he wanted to leave early without his elk because he did not want to hunt in this gong show any more. We also got a note on our truck stating that if we ever "kicked my brother out of his hunting spot again we would regret it" I have no idea what this meant but probably mistaken identity as we heard many arguements of guys driving trucks around. I WILL NEVER RETURN FOR THIS SENIOR SEASON AGAIN! I am also writing a letter to the ministry about it. I feel it should be cancelled and just more LEH tags given out. :mad:



How do you know the old guy wasn't hunting bulls? I know some old guys who hunt bulls and not cows at all. And what does the age of his gear have to do with anything? Also you seem to just assume it was him that shot at you. If so how did he get out? Being as old as you say, he probably didn't hike out. Could have it been one of the guys from the other truck? Its not like they would confess. Seems to be alot of bashing going on for an assumption.

[mark4]

Don't start bashing the seniors season, we all have elderly parents and grandparents that like to hunt- being self righteous and critical about it just shows that you don't have a clue what your doing and just trying to blame someone else. There is competition for elk these days and if you can't handle it- don't hunt. May the lord help you if you assault a senior in the east kootenay's - go whine somewhere else or mabye hunt somewhere where 80 year old men can't get to- sorry to be so blunt but this sort of talk just makes all hunters look like idiots so please knock it off. Your turning a good thing into a huge debate-I'm sure your exaggerating bigtime too.

[humble hunter]

Don't start bashing the seniors season, we all have elderly parents and grandparents that like to hunt- being self righteous and critical about it just shows that you don't have a clue what your doing and just trying to blame someone else. There is competition for elk these days and if you can't handle it- don't hunt. May the lord help you if you assault a senior in the east kootenay's - go whine somewhere else or mabye hunt somewhere where 80 year old men can't get to- sorry to be so blunt but this sort of talk just makes all hunters look like idiots so please knock it off. Your turning a good thing into a huge debate-I'm sure your exaggerating bigtime too.
Well see what you have to say when someone shoots at you! I was pretty upset about the whole hunt! The next thing is the lord did help me by the guy not showing up at the bottom, I would have majorly regreted what I could have done out of anger! I am sure that whoever did it probably feels worse than me. This thread is out of hand and I am going to let this unfortunate incedent go and focus on the positive, that being my ashnola sheep tag that starts on Monday. :-)

[The Hermit]

the shots in the archery season could have been Junior deer hunters, as far as the sh!t feilds go, it can get scary, I try to stay away.

I was talking about LATE evening way beyond legal shooting light. BTW - It started on the Saturday evening before the season opening on Monday... I assumed it was people sighting in their guns!!!

On Sat morning we counted over 125 elk (including around 30 bulls) in the fields at 8:30 am. Sunday morning not a single elk to be seen! Tell me again that the elk aren't tuned into gun fire and that the youth/senior season doesn't affect their habits and the bowhunter's opportunity?

I used to be okay with the junior/senior gun season being concurrent with the archery season... not so anymore.

[rocksteady]

On Sat morning we counted over 125 elk (including around 30 bulls) in the fields at 8:30 am. Sunday morning not a single elk to be seen! .


Talked to CO who was working that area lots, he said 1 hunter walked out into the middle of the fields at 1:00 AM and sat there in the wet, stinky alfalfa, waiting for first light.....I guess the elk came near him at 2:00 and all of them fled the field.......

Sounds like a good plan in theory.....Not great in reality though...