Att. Grizz Hunters, Infact All Hunters

[6 K]

With an election in the near future and the Olympics around the corner the anti grizzly hunting groups have started another “Stop the grizzly hunt campaign”. It is critically important that all of us that revere hunting send a letter in support for the continuance of a sustainable grizzly hunt based on indiscriminate science and species data collection. If we as conservationists and hunters want to see the grizzly hunt in the future it is important that we and ALL our peers have our voice heard and send a brief letter in support of the hunt to

Honourable Barry Penner
Minister of Environment
PO Box 9047 Stn. Prov. Govt.
Rm 112 Parliament Buildings
Victoria, B.C.
V8G 9E2

You can be certain guys and gals that the antis are hard at work on this, if we don’t speak up we very well could loose grizzly hunting again and this time we just might not get it back.

[mainland hunter]

Can this thread go in the mainland BC forum so more people see it?

[sfire436]

I second that

[Marc]

There you go boys, and I even left a redirect that will expire in two days in case someone looks for it in the other spot.

[mainland hunter]

thanks marc, that was quick

[6 K]

Thanks Mark,
I wasn't too sure where to put this. Next time I'll pm you.

[ElkMasterC]

But aren't Grizzly Bears Endangered?

Can you hunt those?

Just wondering...

[eaglesnester]

No grizz are not endangered, spend enough time in the bush and you will see them, lots and lots of em. Grizz by nature are critters that like their solitude and they live way back in there and they only come together during mating season. They will tolerate one another at the salmon streams for a while but after the run they disappear into the bush and go off on their own alone.

[Swamp Donkey]

My letter will be mailed first thing in the morning. This is very important to everyone who hunts whether it's grouse or elk. 6 K is right, the anti's will not only be POURING their time into this but also BIG $$$$$$. At least we can send a lousy letter and have what voice we still have heard!

[gwillim]

"No grizz are not endangered, spend enough time in the bush and you will see them, lots and lots of em. "

A few years ago I would have agreed, but I have noticed a steep decline in sightings of grizzlies over the last few years here in the West Kootenays. I am lucky enough to work in the bush, and make a practice of scanning the slide chutes in my area for bears in the Spring. It used to be that I could spot one or two grizzly a day if I took a few moments to scan the big avalanche chutes. The last few years I have noticed nothing but black bears in areas that would normally have been grizzly habitat.

My suspicion is that the local bears have taken quite a hit in areas where road systems allow for ease of hunter access. Its true that the more remote areas still have strong populations, but its sad to think that the historical range of these bears is being shrunk by a few ambitious hunters.

My personal take on this is why hunt a species that is obviously in decline, when other species like black bear and whitetails are in abundance?

[BCRiverBoater]

"No grizz are not endangered, spend enough time in the bush and you will see them, lots and lots of em. "

A few years ago I would have agreed, but I have noticed a steep decline in sightings of grizzlies over the last few years here in the West Kootenays. I am lucky enough to work in the bush, and make a practice of scanning the slide chutes in my area for bears in the Spring. It used to be that I could spot one or two grizzly a day if I took a few moments to scan the big avalanche chutes. The last few years I have noticed nothing but black bears in areas that would normally have been grizzly habitat.

My suspicion is that the local bears have taken quite a hit in areas where road systems allow for ease of hunter access. Its true that the more remote areas still have strong populations, but its sad to think that the historical range of these bears is being shrunk by a few ambitious hunters.

My personal take on this is why hunt a species that is obviously in decline, when other species like black bear and whitetails are in abundance?


You really need to come up north. I used to see one bear a season maybe 2. Ever since they stopped the grizzly hunting then out it on LEH the bear population has exploded. The last 5 years as been insane. Last time in on the Prophet we were semi charged 2 days in a row by different bears. We saw 5 grizzlies in 7 days. About 5 years ago on one trip we saw 8 different grizzlies in on one main valley system and two of the encounters were within 50 yards. 4 years ago on the Muskwa we saw about 5 bears and a camp beside us had a tag and shot one but saw 8-12 bears that week. I even saw one on the Halfway River 2 years ago about 35 minutes from town.

Every party I talk to every year are having close run ins and are seeing an abnormal amount of bears. The outfitter on the Muskwa told us you can not leave game over night or you will have a bear on it. Their guides stay out at night and take all meat out or else it is lost for sure. The surveyors up here are having a ton of bear issues as well.

A guy at work saw 3 grizzlies in 2 days at Redfern Lake (highest amount of human traffic around). A buddy of mine was on a guided hunt this year and they were charged twice.

To me the bear numbers are out of control. I talk to a lot of guides in this area and they can not believe the bears they are seeing compared to 10 years ago. Every year they are having more and more problems. Noboady knows the areas like the outfitters. When they are saying there are way more bears, one has to believe it.

[mainland hunter]

[quote=gwillim;322467, but I have noticed a steep decline in sightings of grizzlies over the last few years here in the West Kootenays. I am lucky enough to work in the bush, and make a practice of scanning the slide chutes in my area for bears in the Spring. It used to be that I could spot one or two grizzly a day if I took a few moments to scan the big avalanche chutes. The last few years I have noticed nothing but black bears in areas that would normally have been grizzly habitat.[/quote]

You're experience is different from mine and many others I've talked to. I wouldn't promote grizzly hunting if there was an overall decline, but as it stands now, areas where grizzlies are low in number arent open for the most part, but areas where they are, are open and should remain open as 6K said this should be determined by sound scientific evidence rather than political pressure from groups who will not stop with ending just the grizzly hunt.

[BCRiverBoater]

You're experience is different from mine and many others I've talked to. I wouldn't promote grizzly hunting if there was an overall decline, but as it stands now, areas where grizzlies are low in number arent open for the most part, but areas where they are, are open and should remain open as 6K said this should be determined by sound scientific evidence rather than political pressure from groups who will not stop with ending just the grizzly hunt.

I agree...sound numbers are what they have to go on. Do some real counts and talk with the outfitters and get their help. Nobody knows the areas better than the outfitters. The areas with the bears need more permits and some other areas could be reduced. The whole problem with this crap when it was implemented was there was no proof of any modern numbers. If they could show us some up to date numbers it may be a little easier to stomach.

[ElkMasterC]

Hmmmmm..they can't even agree on counting methods, it seems. let alone numbers.
I'm heading into the east Koots this week, bowhunting for Elk.
It's historically infested with grizz. Shame we can't carry sidearms... :rolleyes:

...or small tactical nuclear devices...

[boonerbuck]

I've been hearing for several years now how Grizzly numbers are up and so are human encounters in the East kootenays. I've been pretty much hearing and experiencing the same for the rest of the province where Grizzlies inhabit.

I'm off on an elk hunt in a couple of days to an area scouted in Aug. This area quite possibly has the most grizzlies per square KM I've ever seen. A matter of fact an guy and his gal cut their trip short while I was scouting because there was just too much sign for them to camp and relax. They tucked tail and ran same day they arrived....:mrgreen:

With numbers being up in most of the province I still say take nothing for granted. Logic has very little to do with politics usually. With a pen stroke we could lose the hunt....

[Wolfman]

I wish all these 'eco-greenies' were the endangered ones.
What a pain the arse they all are.

Wolfman

[Ltbullken]

Stand up, be proud of our heritage! Tell people about the pioneering conservation efforts of all hunters and keep the focus on science. Grizzlies are not an endangered species in BC and sensible population management through hunting will allow the species to be stronger and healthier in the long run. And by all means report all those ******* poachers (:evil:) who paint all of us with the tar of their heinous deeds!!

[6 K]

I too have noticed a increase in numbers that I have encountered. Last week I saw one fishing in a back channel of the Kitimat river, right beside the highway, on my way to work. Saterday I saw one fishing at the boat launch into work channel. Numerous campers and two dozen truck/boat loads of people not a hundred yards away. He couldn't have cared less. Last year we encountered fifteen in two days of hunting. I realize of course this may not be a constant across the province.
Antis figure since they don't happen to come across them on their hykeing trails in North Van. ( I only choose this as an exsample location, I know many hykers get into alot of remote locations) the entire province should be closed. It is a very danerous pressident to allow. Don't be fooled into thinking the antis are only against trophy hunting, they wouldn't allow you to have a pointed butter knife in the bush if they had it their way.

Please please take the time to print off a short word document in favor of sustainable hunting based on sound science and send it to minister Penner.

gwillim if it is true that the areas you frequent are being hit too hard then alotment numbers should be re-evaluated. I admit I have never made it to that part of the province. Most areas I hunt however are without question seriously under aloted. I think there is substantial evidence that the population is healthy enough to allow hunting. If Grizzly numbers were to be too low, I'm sure hunters would be near the front of the line to get it closed. None that I know would want any speices to become extinct.

[Brett]

we need to find an email for this minister and flood it!

[Ozone]

Ministry Office

The Ministry of Environment's mailing address is:
PO BOX 9339 STN PROV GOVT
VICTORIA BC V8W 9M1
Telephone: 250 387-1161
Fax: 250 387-5669
E-mail: www.envmail@gov.bc.ca (www.envmail@gov.bc.ca)

[eric]

Just finished sending an email
Thanks for the link

Eric

[steepNdeep]

Good point 6K! Grizzlies and the downtown east side of Van. are going to be the "Free Tibet" protests of 2010...



I have noticed a steep decline in sightings of grizzlies over the last few years here in the West Kootenays. My personal take on this is why hunt a species that is obviously in decline, when other species like black bear and whitetails are in abundance?

Gwillim, I disagree. I spend a lot of time in the WK's and I have seen the population grow significantly. Decades ago, grizzlies were only myths in the WK's, but now I know of ~13 grizzlies in one valley... Guess it depends where you are at.

We have to put some faith in our wildlife biologists to determine accurate populations - it is the basis of our system of conservation.

[gwillim]

Hi again,

I should clarify that when I refer to a perceived decline in grizzly numbers I am only talking about areas where I spend a lot of time, which includes the chart areas of our forest licence, and some of my favourite hiking areas near Nelson. I'm sure if you go up the remote portions of the Lardeau river, or into the Purcells you could find strong local populations.

I suppose a more careful allotment of tags in the hard hit areas could be an answer, but the ability to micro-manage populations is limited by available budgets, and expertise of the wildlife management professionals. I am lucky enough to know a few of the local wildlife biologists who are responsible for the population work that has been done with grizzlies and they will be the first to caution that the margin for error in these studies is extremely large. Provincial timber inventories are very suspect, and trees tend to stay in one place for long periods of time! Imagine trying to get an accurate count on a wide ranging animal like grizzlies.

While I am blabbing, I would also question the assumption that "enviros" are out to take away your right to hunt anything. I meet with some pretty hard core "enviros" through my forestry work and while you might have some big differences of opinion on some issues, like anyone when you get to know them they just people with their strengths and faults. What I gather from the people I meet is that while they are very opposed to trophy hunting, they are very supportive of people who hunt for food. I guess it fits in quite nicely with the concept of "100 mile diets", and eating organically.

[GoatGuy]

Hi again,

I should clarify that when I refer to a perceived decline in grizzly numbers I am only talking about areas where I spend a lot of time, which includes the chart areas of our forest licence, and some of my favourite hiking areas near Nelson. I'm sure if you go up the remote portions of the Lardeau river, or into the Purcells you could find strong local populations.

I suppose a more careful allotment of tags in the hard hit areas could be an answer, but the ability to micro-manage populations is limited by available budgets, and expertise of the wildlife management professionals. I am lucky enough to know a few of the local wildlife biologists who are responsible for the population work that has been done with grizzlies and they will be the first to caution that the margin for error in these studies is extremely large. Provincial timber inventories are very suspect, and trees tend to stay in one place for long periods of time! Imagine trying to get an accurate count on a wide ranging animal like grizzlies.

While I am blabbing, I would also question the assumption that "enviros" are out to take away your right to hunt anything. I meet with some pretty hard core "enviros" through my forestry work and while you might have some big differences of opinion on some issues, like anyone when you get to know them they just people with their strengths and faults. What I gather from the people I meet is that while they are very opposed to trophy hunting, they are very supportive of people who hunt for food. I guess it fits in quite nicely with the concept of "100 mile diets", and eating organically.

We've spent a pile of $ of grizzly management and census. There were a couple of MUs in the wk that were closed but the cause of the 'weak' bear population was habitat fragmentation - had nothing to do with hunting.


How many bears were harvested out of these mu's in the past?

[steepNdeep]

While I am blabbing, I would also question the assumption that "enviros" are out to take away your right to hunt anything.... What I gather from the people I meet is that while they are very opposed to trophy hunting, they are very supportive of people who hunt for food. I guess it fits in quite nicely with the concept of "100 mile diets", and eating organically.

I know many Nelsonites, etc., who are definitely opposed to hunting - period. (many of them are transplant posers from the City, of course :roll: ) I don't think anyone can say sh!t if they eat meat themselves (based on deductive reasoning), but many of them are vegitarian...

Many anti's use emotionally charged issues and rare examples (ie: orphaned bear cubs) to promote their propoganda and sway people to their side. The majority of (urban) people are too far removed from the wilderness to have their own experience or knowledge on the subject and often take that propoganda as fact. This IS a slippery slope for (all) hunting rights as the majority of the populus live in urban centres...

[ElkMasterC]

Hmmm...lots of bears...downtown east Side...

Hungry Grizzly Bears....Downtown east side.......

Anybody diggin' what I'm shovelin'?


Hey , someone come up with a form letter that's OBJECTIVE, and based on FACTS and LOGIC, and we should all personalize send it.



Oh, and my first post was a lark...lmao...just stirrrrrin' the pot.... ;-)

[Avalanche123]

Many anti's use emotionally charged issues and rare examples (ie: orphaned bear cubs) to promote their propoganda and sway people to their side. The majority of (urban) people are too far removed from the wilderness to have their own experience or knowledge on the subject and often take that propoganda as fact. This IS a slippery slope for (all) hunting rights as the majority of the populus live in urban centres...

There is a lot of truth to your statement. It sure is a slippery slope to venture onto.