Bear sprays

[sneg]

Most of us probably carry bear spray for protection. I do not have much faith,but carry when I do not have a gun. I m just wondering if anybody had actual experience of figthing bear with peper spray ? Not spraying innocent cross- passer ,but charging bear. Yeah , I know it theoretically should work on bears and all canines. It also theoretically work on all humans (had small accidents myself).But also few times I have seen cops using peper spray on some guys without any success. I do not know if those guys were on something or just had case of bad flue,but spray did not work at all. Probably if person is in figthing rage than brain blocks senses .What about attacking bear ? He is for sure in figthing rage. It would really suck to be eaten by some griz and know that he will be crying of peper afterwards. What do you guys think ?

[Ron.C]

I talked to park staff up in the Bowron lakes a couple years back when I was up there on a canoe trip and he told me he used his twice, once on a charge, once on a bear that was just too close, but not acting overly agressive. He said it worked like a hot dam on both occasions.

[sneg]

Thanks Ron.C. Good to hear real life experience.wonder if there would be any difference between griz and black bear ? generally black is much easier get scared.

[Gateholio]

I've used it twice, both times on bears that were "too close for comfort" but not in an all out charge.

Once, the spray worked very well, knocked bear on it's ass, and he took off in a hurry.

The other time, it detered him, but not for long, and the bear kept coming back to harrass me. I was able to depart the area that time, but had I been carrying a gun, I woudl have used it on that bear.

[Mr. Dean]

I talked to park staff up in the Bowron lakes a couple years back when I was up there on a canoe trip and he told me he used his twice, once on a charge, once on a bear that was just too close, but not acting overly agressive. He said it worked like a hot dam on both occasions.

But a lot of charges are bluff. How are we to know if the bear didn't turn around on its own accord?


IMO it is IMPOSSIBLE to evaluate the effectiveness of bear spray. We would need several volunteers that would be willing to give up their lives for conducive testing.

[moosinaround]

I use a common type of sray, has a pretty good pattern at 15 yrds! Typically I use 3" mags, but 2-3/4" Will work too! I have maced bears and it has worked a few times. It has to be a full face blast, dont fire it prematurely, or they just walk out of the cloud and sneeze a little! Still like the 12ga or similar for bear protection. Moosin

[hunter1947]

MD I would think that if the bear had hi tailed it after you had sprayed at it it was because of the bear spray ,that would be my thoughts.

[Mr. Dean]

MD I would think that if the bear had hi tailed it after you had sprayed at it it was because of the bear spray ,that would be my thoughts.

My point is that they'll veer off the vast majority of the time anyway. true attacks causing an injury are extremely rare in comparison. It seems to be the 'super' real motivated one's that hurt.

How are we to truly know if the intent of a "spray deterred bear", was to harm you and that he was the one that held that kind of motivation? It's impossible....


I do believe that spray has saved a few bears lives though. People seem to have faith in the stuff for what I see as unfounded reasons, and have taken it up, instead of arms.

Good marketing. Someones making a pile of dough on it. :wink:

[wolverine]

I have never had to use it on a bear. I have seen it used and it seemed to work really well. Remember, it does have a shelf life and the "heat" cools off with age. Also remember that even if it's within it's effective date range to shake the can up well before heading out. If it's been sitting for a couple of months the active pepper ingredient and the oleo-resin starts to separate and you don't get the full effect of the pepper if you have to use it. So if you have some that isn't within it's best before date, get rid of it and get some fresh stuff.

[sneg]

I think if bear is really charging than peper spray will only enrage him more.Same if you shot ,but did not kill. You 'll have wounded animal figthing for its life. Do agree sometimes wounded animal can back off if it see escape route,but I would not count on it.

[Mr. Dean]

I look at it this way.
If *I* were REALLY wanting to do something, spray may blurr my vision,,, but I'm-a-coming, regardless.

To stop me, you'd either have to be stronger or use something lethal.

[4 point]

I know a guy who was up hunting by riverboat in the MacGregor River area. It was starting to get to low light and he was headed back to a pickup site on the river for the short boat ride back to base camp. He spotted a big sow grizzly with one big cub, probably he thought a two year old about the same time as they spotted him. He started to retreat, they started to come forward and come forward faster and faster with the cub fairly close behind mom. Finally with the distance closing away to fast and with no place to go he dropped to a kneeling position for better balance and fired one shot when she was 50-60 feet away. He said it was like a freight train coming down the tracks feeling and so unreal. She died from that shot. The big cub stopped and he hauled his ass out of there as fast as he could. When he met with his buddies at the pickup site on the river his face was still white as a ghost. He told them his story and they said it was to dark to go back to check things out, they had to get back to camp before light was gone. They went back in the next day and the sow was dead but the big cub was still in the area, bawling out occasionaly for mom. Would bear spray have worked in that case..he says no way that wouldn't have stopped her. These are hard choices and until your in the position to have to make that choice have both gun and spray if in bear country.

[gitnadoix]

When it comes to a bear encounter of the unfriendly kind, you can prety much take it to the bank that some times spray will work some times it will not....much the same way as with a gun. There have been more than a few chaps that have been killed by dead charging bears, problem is the bears just didnt know or care that they were technicaly with out a functioning heart or any means of life suport. Either or is more effective than scooping poop outa your shorts and flinging it.

[Poguebilt]

I was looking at buying a can of spray.. they have two sizes one lasts for 9 seconds and the bigger 11 seconds... what one are you guys buyin?

[sneg]

If bear is like 40-60 meters away and charging it may work to give a shot into ground in front of bear. This way you'll not injure ,but chance that you may scare it. Still you'll have bullet for one lethal shot if required.

[sneg]

I have bigger one.Have tested both,seems larger bottle have stronger spray.

[Mr. Dean]

If bear is like 40-60 meters away and charging it may work to give a shot into ground in front of bear. This way you'll not injure ,but chance that you may scare it. Still you'll have bullet for one lethal shot if required.


Naw. Just stand there and see what happens. Odds are highly stacked in your favour that it'll be bluffin' ya.

Mr. Deans new hunting mandate: If w/ a partner, put that person on point with spray. Apply for grant before sending in test results/victim, and look for new partner after we found the one that was "motivated".


Here's another twist. What about the myth of kicking a man in the nads and having him drop, to thwart off an attack.

For the ladies that think "yes" - Don't believe it. All ya have is now a very PO'd attacker that has less rationality. Count on things escalating.

Bears are as individual as humans. They come in all kinds of mindsets.


Any takers for a hunting buddy??? :lol:

[sneg]

yeah, Mr.Dean. i m going griz hunting with partner. shall try bear spray if it works or not. No ... may be not....No,partner would not agree to come too close and personal. just kidding.
Another question is it legal to carry handgun in bushes for purpose of self-defence ?

[Mr. Dean]

In general, no.
Work permits are offered to those who make living in the bush. Not available for recreationalists.

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

Both Herrero & Shelton have published lots of good stuff on bear-spray.
I'm with Moosin' on this one: 12-ga. bear-spray works... even when it's windy.

Cheers,
Terry

[Alpine Addict]

The way I look at it is, if your being charged by a 300 pound pissed off bear comin 15 km/hr your probably gunna be atleast knocked over if not mauled. I find that a 1-1/4 ounze 3" slug works not bad.

[Avalanche123]

The way I look at it is, if your being charged by a 300 pound pissed off bear comin 15 km/hr your probably gunna be atleast knocked over if not mauled. I find that a 1-1/4 ounze 3" slug works not bad.

Have you tried this?

[wolverine]

Howdy,

Both Herrero & Shelton have published lots of good stuff on bear-spray.
I'm with Moosin' on this one: 12-ga. bear-spray works... even when it's windy.

Cheers,
Terry


Yeah, I agree. It's kinda like Al Capone said. "You get farther with a kind word and a gun than just a kind word".

[Alpine Addict]

Not personally. But I was with my buddy's dad and he saw it first and grabbed the gun from my hands. we were way back, about a 6 hour hike from the Coquihalla in some alpine. but we happend to have a tag so it worked out

[Tarp Man]

Anyone ever had pepper spray tried on them? Or received a swift kick in the 'nads? I have received a soccer boot in the nads... let me tell you that no matter how much I wanted to get up due to pride, adrenalin, whatever, the puking kept me put on the turf. This was by no means a "malicious attack" either, just a misplaced kick.

I have heard first hand reports of pepper spray, and there is not much you can do to "overcome" its effects, particularly if it gets in your eyes or lungs. Think the worst asthma attack ever with bleach in the eyes.

[Avalanche123]

I think it takes a lot of practise to become competent at hitting a moving target when your heart is in your throat beating at over 100 beats per minute. I am glad it worked out in your case.

[hansol]

I think a lot of the conversation here is "tough talk".

I play a lot of sports, so I've been hit in the nuts more than a few times. Hockey, soccer, basketball, volleyball, you name it. The occasional "tap" you can walk off. But getting a full-out cleat to the nuts, no matter how much you prepared for it coming, you drop instantly. Then the delay before the pain hits you, and then you start puking all curled up in the fetal position. You're done.

I also had a couple buddies bear-maced, one who was a bouncer at the club, and the other was an army buddy on a dare. The bouncer was all hopped up on adrenaline trying to snag some dude, and when the dude pulled out the bear spray, my buddy was hooped. Said it felt like his whole face was on fire, and all his bodily fluids started coming out. Snot oozing, eyes watering and feeling like they were on fire. He said all he could do was crawl around on the ground and puke and snot everywhere. Didn't matter that there was some dangerous dude still around, he was done for the night.

The army buddy had the same exerience, minus the adrenaline rush. He stood there and took a facefull of bear spray on a dare, and it wasn't pretty. Same thing, puking, snotting everywhere. He emptied two 500ml waterbottles and a 4L jug of water trying to flush the stuff out, and even then it didn't help. In training we all get CS-gassed, and buddy said this was 10x worse.

Granted, a bear is a bear, but you can't tell me that a kick to the nuts, or the bear spray, is "no big deal".

[sneg]

thanks for sharing opinions. 12 ga bear spray... i like that expression...too bad can not carry everywhere. i would agree the best to carry both if you can .peper spray for "gentle"bears and shotgun for mean ones.

[sneg]

hansol i think the biggest question would be how much damage angry bear can do between you spray him and bear start "puking" ? I guess one swing of griz paw with 4-5 inch claws could be one too many. IMHO sometimes people too much relay on bear spray immediate effect.

[hansol]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not a granola-eating hippy by any means. I'd rather have my 375 or even my 30-30 instead of a 14oz bottle of spray when it comes to aggressive bears.

All my point was that I think that a lot of people tend to say "Oh, that can't happen to me, I'm a tough bugger" and what not. I will be the first to admit that in my experience, a kick to the nuts put me out of commission, and have two buddies who had their day wrecked when hit with bear-spray. I guess that makes all of us sissies then.

[gitnadoix]

The other thing to consider is the wide spray area and ease of delivery of bear spray. The aiming is all instictive and you can probably aim it just as well as you are falling over a log backwards as you can down on one knee. The guns on the other hand usually require more deft motor skills, and practice to be proficient in an intense event.

One can practice with both but the spray can is a lot easier to master compared to rifle.

[msawyer]

Check this out... much more research supports the use of bear spray over shooting...

Mike

http://www.fws.gov/mountain-prairie/species/mammals/grizzly/bear%20spray.pdf
________
Ford Landau specifications (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Landau)

[Gateholio]

Even a bit of spray drifting in your face is very uncomfortable. One more limitation it has....

[Wildfoot]

ive set off around a dozen cans. Never at a bear though, haha. It was part of work training.

I found that they spray fine as long as there is little wind, or the bear is downwind. The last thing I would want is to get bear spray in my face with a pissed off bear around!

I did manage to accidentally spray a family of hikers on a trail once. The two kids dropped in their tracks and had to be carried out. the stuff is pretty strong. I licked a bit off my finger tip as well, that I regret. Hotter than any hot sauce in my fridge!

[hunter1947]

If you can't get to your gun for some unknown reason on a bear attack ,I would want to have a can of bear spray on my belt ,it would be the only thing you got left if a bear was on top of you http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[Ron.C]

One thing that is always overlooked or not talked about whenever this subject comes up is that nothing is certain. What will work in one case may not work in the same situation the next day. This includes using guns. If you shoot at a bears feet at 40 yards and it deters it one day may induce a full on charge the next. No to situations or outcomes are the same. As for using spray, the "experts" all say the best time to use it is when you feel contact from the bear is iminent. But who knows when that is? My point is Bear spray is just another tool. You are an idiot if you think just because you have a can of spray strapped to you, means you are 100% safe and protected against all bear encounters, same goes for carrying a gun. But if you are being charged/bluff charged" who knows the difference" and that bear is well within the effective distance of spray, and you have spray ready, use it, which is what happened to the only person I have ever talked to that used spray on bears and said it worked excellent in both situations. Just make sure that if you have spray, carry it where it can be used in a moments notice. You never know where that will be. Don't stick it in your pack or leave it in the truck. Last year while elk hunting both our close bear encounters happened within 500 meters from the truck.

[hansol]

One interesting thing I read in this month's "Field and Stream" mag (at least I think that was it) was a timed test for deploying bear-spray vs. an aimed shot.

What the guy did was test how long it took him to take an aimed shot at a box a certain distance away, having to first unsling his rifle, shoulder it, take the safety off, aim, and then fire, vs deploying the bear spray. Suffice to say the spray definitely won, based (in my opinion) on the fact that you don't have to "aim" bear-spray. Just unholster and hope for the best. If I remember right I think the time difference was something like 4 seconds for the rifle against 1.4seconds for the spray.

For what it's worth.

[sneg]

sure bear spray would be faster to deploy. however gun would be effective anywhere between 10-50 m ,while bear spray somewhere 2-7 m. if bear is approaching @ 10-30 km/h than deployment time difference would not be that important. if gun does not work than person still have chance to use a bear spray. if bear spray does not stop bear immediately than person have no other chance .more over person will be affected by own bear spray deflected from approaching bear. what to do next ? pull rambo knife ?

[brotherjack]

Just curious - how often do people get attacked by bears in the bush?

I used to be pretty freaked out about bears in the bush, but now, some years later, I've seen plenty of them running around out there - and the only ones I've ever seen, I've seen from them south end as they were making fast tracks north - so I'm not really so paranoid about them any more. I carry spray and/or a gun on general principal, but I'll be kind of surprised if I ever end up using them for bear defense (at least in the areas I tend to hunt).

And to answer the question - statistics say, that bear spray or a gun either one is effective the vast majority of the time - but neither are effective 100% of the time. I grab which ever one is handiest as I'm on the way out the door, and don't really worry too much about which is better.

[brian]

hansol i think the biggest question would be how much damage angry bear can do between you spray him and bear start "puking" ? I guess one swing of griz paw with 4-5 inch claws could be one too many. IMHO sometimes people too much relay on bear spray immediate effect. If your shot isn't instantly lethal you could say the same thing for a gun. As much as the gun gives you a sense of security, if you miss or connect in a way that doesn't immediately debilitate it then you are in the same boat. I'll probably carry spray with me this season as a backup to the rifle.

And yeah a real hit to the jewels has put me out of commission on more than one occasion. Your hands get real quick when warming up the quarterback and he accidentally drills one right at the nads.

[JeffR]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z223/JeffR604/BearSign.jpg

[sneg]

i like this sign

[Mr. Dean]

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not a granola-eating hippy by any means. I'd rather have my 375 or even my 30-30 instead of a 14oz bottle of spray when it comes to aggressive bears.

All my point was that I think that a lot of people tend to say "Oh, that can't happen to me, I'm a tough bugger" and what not. I will be the first to admit that in my experience, a kick to the nuts put me out of commission, and have two buddies who had their day wrecked when hit with bear-spray. I guess that makes all of us sissies then.

No,,, that makes you all individuals.
For you to believe that others can't react differently, could be construed as being foolish.

Self defence courses teach incapacitation of the extremities for just this reason. Taking out a knee or ankle IS 100% effective. As is the throat. Goin for groin is discouraged.

And we all have seen 'tests' on people (staged or caught live on vidio) that CAN take it. Be it the jewels, the spray, the tear gas, OR the taser. Some 'can' temporarily overcome the effects. When life is on the line, weird things DO happen. This I have lived and witnessed, therefore, also accept.

I also accept that a 'motivated' bear will likely possess more will than I in the initial. He's already sized up the opponent and made his choice; he has the head start and I still need to convince myself to "get up to speed" and be on its level.

No, I don't see me as a "tough guy". If i did, I'd line up members for a free shot (no thanks). I'm just a bloke that believes in Murphy's Law. If shit can happen... Count on it!

Bullets and shrapnel leave no mystery. Place it right and it will work.

This said, I do believe that it will be a ground fight. A stalking bear is eerily quiet and near impossible to see unless you're fortunate/lucky (personal observation only) - My reason for hailing for change in our restricted carry laws. Survival of an actual attack would be lucky, but one may as well have all the chances of survival, afforded.

Charging bears are different. Chances are that you'll see it but again, odds are it'll leave you alone (bluff). And there are documented studies that back this up. Only a very few follow through, but how do we dicipher which is which when the time comes?

My "therory" is to get between it and an obstacle (tree, boulder...) if possible when 1st noticed. If bear persists and I don't have that hunting partner, AKA; spray tester handy, pop him.

If not noticed in time to seek refuge, I'd summon all that I could muster in affording it to change its mind. If there was time for the 30 yd warning shot, he'd get it. If it was still headed in my direction after cycling another round, he'd get it b'tween the eye's. By then he'd be so close, I couldn't miss that one.... But still that very good chance that it'll veer off also.

That's pretty much how Timothy Dudswell survived as long as he did (MO). The odds were in his favour, but he insisted on pushing the deck. Sooner or later, odds run out.

Yup, still a good chance of becoming D E A D. But WTH, you only live once and if dieing from a bear attack rattles some,,,, best stay at home and watch hunting shows on TV. It's safer. :tongue:

It's just the price of admission IMO and pepper is for seasoning. :wink:



Even a bit of spray drifting in your face is very uncomfortable. One more limitation it has....

Yup, this would sure help when/if it became shootin' time.

[Little Hawk]

Howdy,

I have to agree with Mr. Dean. I also think the bear situation in BC - with 15 to 20 thousand grizzlies and 160/thousand or more blackies - warrants that all who work and play in bear country do what they can to learn something about bear behavior. There's a lot of good stuff out there to read that will help you learn to recognize aggressive bear behavior. Like many have implied here, bears are like people and when you run into them you just don't know what frame of mind he'll be in.

In 95' while hunting up the Dutch Cr. watershed with a couple of buddies we were treed by a couple of sub-adult grizzlies who responded to a warning-shot by roaring at us then charging us full-throttle. That incident ended without dead bears or anyone getting hurt; best case scenario.

It wasn't till later that we learned that those two youngsters had, only moments before stumbling upon us, just finished licking up some salt-bits and hide fleshings where someone had caped out an elk near a guides cabin
a couple of hundred yards away. These bears were in a heightened-state and we were in the wrong place at the right time. I can't say that bear spray would have helped us out of that one. Getting my ass off the ground seemed the best idea.

Though I've read lots on the topic I'm certainly no expert. People who spend lots of time in the bush with bears come to know how to read their behavior - then if there's time - they can then formulate a response... fight or flight. I remember reading about a park ranger way up north (Yukon/Alaska) who was charged by a griz-sow from several hundred yards away and he made a quick decision that this bear was going to try to kill him and or his horse. If memory serves, he moved his line-in-the-sand out to a hundred yards or more - based on her behavior - and he began shooting then. She dropped at his feet.

I've had three significant (for me) bear situations so far in my life and I fully expect there will be more. My only hope is that I can use what I've learned to maximize the chances that neither I or the critter gets hurt. Now, with that bit of 'ethical-outdoorsman-bullshit' out of the way; this - after loading my drawers' - is how I would try to respond in any of these three 'life or death' sudden close-quarters encounter situations...

If it's a black bear and he's showing any interest in me or the people I might be with - 'BOOM!'
(normal blackie behavior should have him heading off real fast to other parts as soon as he sees/smells you. If they're checking you out or following you - you are on the menu.)

If it's a griz sow with cubs at 25/yds or less - 'BOOM!'
(If memory serves: 85% chance she's gonna' make physical contact; if she does 'touch-you'... 50% chance you will be dead or require a major stay in the hospital.)

If it's a griz on a kill at 25/yds or less - 'BOOM!'
(His first train of thought will be to defend his kill and that could - in the end - include adding me to the pile.)

Man I can yak!
Gotta' git' dat' fixed...

Cheers,
Terry

[hunter1947]

I used to hunt for years by myself ,its only been in the past 5 years that I have teamed up with a partner.

The way I look at it is that if a bear did come in on you you have a better chance with to guns rather then just the one shooter.

[hansol]

All I was implying in all this was that a kick to the junk hurts a lot :). I've never personally used bear-spray/been stalked by bears/shot at bears/been treed by bears/been sprayed by bear-spray or anything like that. So I can't say one way or another what would be best, as I would just be speculating. That being said, I tend to lean towards being in agreement with most everyone here in that I would prefer a rifle over a can of spray.

But I HAVE been kicked in the groin. It really hurt.