Shot placement ???

[hunter1947]

I'm asking all you experienced bow hunter where you would O in on a deer when you are up 15 feet in a tree stand ,this is when the deer is broadside to you.

Do you O in on the animal 6 inches down from the top of its back behind the back of the shoulders ????.

where would you put the arrow in this situation ???.

[Wild one]

I aim for the lower 1/3 of the body behind the front leg and this has not failed me yet.

[Bow Walker]

Think about where the heart/lungs are situated within the animal. No. They haven't moved - but the Point Of Impact has moved.

The P.O.I. would be higher than if you were shooting on the level. The higher up you are (or the closer the animal) the higher the P.O.I.

[Deerwhacker]

pretty much what bow waker said, i picture the animals vitals and depending on how steep i am up i will aim higher up on the animal, a good tip is to take in account where you want the arrow to exit.

[interceptor]

I reckon Deerwhacker has hit the nail on the head,

I just think about where I want the arrow to exit, I would look at getting the arrow to exit close to the bottom of the far shoulder (arm pit) Picture a line straight through the vitals, the steeper the angle the harder it will be to take out both lungs so I would not let him get in to close.

Try and run a few arrows through a 3D target from an elevated position, this will give you a great visual of what happens.

Good luck.

Cheers Noel

[huntwriter]

It depends how far from the stand the animal is. I like them close 15 to 20 yards. I like to hold a bit lower, aiming for the heart right behind the elbow. If the animal ducks the string I still get a good double lung shot rather than miss high. This has served me well in over 15 years of bowhunting.

(Aiming at the center of the orange dot the arrow will impact just about on the upper line of the circle from 15 feet high and the deer at 20 yards on a reaxed deer and bit higher if the deer jumps the string.)


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/huntwriter/Deer/shot_placement.jpg

[oldtimer]

It all depends how far out the animal is. As hunterwriter says if 20+ yards away the top of the orange may be OK. if closer than that I would move my POI up to that scratched fur directly above the orange. As said earlier, where do you want the exit to be and visualize where the POI should be. Mike

[Ron.C]

A good rule of thumb for elevated or quartering away shots is to aim at where you want your arrow to exit the animal. This can take a bit of practice at a 3d target from a treestand to perfect but it is the best way to learn as you can take your time to examine the shot after its made and see exactly how far back or how high you sometimes need to aim to hit the vitals.

[Avalanche123]

A good rule of thumb for elevated or quartering away shots is to aim at where you want your arrow to exit the animal.

Sound logic IMHO. Like Ron suggests...practise!

[hunter1947]

THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE.

I WILL TAKE MY TARGET AND SET IT UP ON THE GAME TRAIL WHERE I PLAN TO SHOOT AT THE ANIMAL .

I have measured the distance and it is 20 yards from my tree stand to where my shot will hit.

I will be on a steep angle ,up about 15 feet.

Will try a few shots when i get set up in my stand ,thanks again http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif ,H47.

[huntwriter]

THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR ADVICE.

I WILL TAKE MY TARGET AND SET IT UP ON THE GAME TRAIL WHERE I PLAN TO SHOOT AT THE ANIMAL .

I have measured the distance and it is 20 yards from my tree stand to where my shot will hit.

I will be on a steep angle ,up about 15 feet.

Will try a few shots when i get set up in my stand ,thanks again http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif ,H47.

Just yesterday evening I made the final editing on an article about bowhunting from treestands and shot placement. It’s due to be published this weekend.

With the deer 20 yards from the base of your tree and you 15 feet above ground makes for about a 23 yard shot. Aim low at that distance like shown on the picture I posted and the arrow will hit about two inches high. I do not know how fast your bow is and therefore I cannot tell you exactly how high the arrow will hit. If the deer is quartering slightly away aim a little further back.

It’s a good idea to set the target up and get familiar with the distance and angle. While you’re at it may I recommend that you also try different shots such as quartering away and quartering in. Also try shooting to the either side of the stand and even behind you.

Good luck.

[hunter1947]

Just yesterday evening I made the final editing on an article about bowhunting from treestands and shot placement. It’s due to be published this weekend.

With the deer 20 yards from the base of your tree and you 15 feet above ground makes for about a 23 yard shot. Aim low at that distance like shown on the picture I posted and the arrow will hit about two inches high. I do not know how fast your bow is and therefore I cannot tell you exactly how high the arrow will hit. If the deer is quartering slightly away aim a little further back.

It’s a good idea to set the target up and get familiar with the distance and angle. While you’re at it may I recommend that you also try different shots such as quartering away and quartering in. Also try shooting to the either side of the stand and even behind you.

Good luck.
Thanks HW ,will try all of what you said right in my back yard ,didn't want to try it in the area I will be set up in will leave to much human scent around..

[The 'Hummer']

Good info guys. You've not only helped hunter1947 but me as well. What I did a couple of years ago was purchase a 3D type target, Tuff Buck made by McKenzie Target. I've set it up in field conditions to try and replicate conditions I may run into hunting from a tree stand. Good practice.

[BlacktailStalker]

Whats the matter Wayner, that MASSIVE 4 pt got ya rattled, doubting your 50 plus years of hunting skills ;)?
All I know is he better be dead when I get back and he better be taken by YOUR arrow.

[hunter1947]

Whats the matter Wayner, that MASSIVE 4 pt got ya rattled, doubting your 50 plus years of hunting skills ;)?
All I know is he better be dead when I get back and he better be taken by YOUR arrow.

You don't get old without getting smarter there big man :mrgreen:.

I really want to take that monster 4 point before you get back ,LOL ,or you might sneak in where he is and try and bag it for yourself :mrgreen:.

Just don't come back to quick ,I just paid Marc some cash under the table to keep you up there as late as 2 week's even if you were to get a sheep in the first couple days LOL ,so if you think something is not going right when he steers you over a few mountains ,just think about me ,LOL.

[huntwriter]

Hummer this indeed is an interesting thread. There is also a misconception about shot placement among many bowhunters. This becomes obvious on many of my seminars covering this topic. Unlike gun hunters we have to worry more about than just hitting a deer somewhere upfront. A deer shot with a firearm dies of shock. A deer shot with an arrow dies of massive blood loss leading to cardiac arrest. In order to aid massive blood loss we have to get the arrow into the lungs and heart, preferably both.

The problem some hunters have is realizing just how low these organs are. A live deer looks very deceptive with its huge chest area. But look at the pictures and you will see just how low these organs are. Everything above the lungs is meat and solid bone. It is an established fact that most non-fatal shots and clear misses are high.

Take into effect that most deer jump the string (duck) at the release of the arrow and it is easy to see why many miss high. A deer can trop in a split second to half of its body height. We can talk about all we want taking shots at relaxed deer but the truth is that this happens very rarely. Even from the fasted and quietest bow the deer will hear the sound of the arrow long before the arrow arrives. The only time that the arrow is faster than the sound is if the deer stands at about 10 ft. to 12 ft. from the base of the tree.

Another factor in favor of aiming low is that the higher the hunter is and the further a deer stands from the tree the higher the impact will be.
Think about this: A deer stands 10 yards from the base of your tree and you’re 12 feet above ground, that makes for about a 12-yard shot. But if you’re 30 feet up the tree, the shooting distance becomes now 14 yards. But the deer is still only 10 yards from the base of your tree. Think what the distance would be at 35 or even 40 feet up the tree. Now lets place that deer at the average bowhunting distance of 25 yards from the base of the tree. Now 30 feet off the ground results in a 50 yard and the 40 feet off the ground turns into a almost a 60 yard shot.

In my article “Hunting from High Above” I cover that subject in more detail. As a CORE instructor I would love to spend more time on the subject of proper shot placement, but time restriction do not permit this. I have developed short seminars and clinics devoted to this subject and if any of you own a hunting goods store or are a member of a Rod and Gun club and wish to host a shot placement clinic or would like more information on other clinic topics contact me, there are still a few dates available for this fall.


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/huntwriter/Deer/arrow_impact.jpg

[The 'Hummer']

Thanks huntwriter, for the helpful info and the illustration. Have you done a clinic along those lines the last few years through any of the clubs on the island? I am a member of a club locally and I will make inquiries concerning the possibility of hosting a clinic. Thanks again.

[hunter1947]

Hummer this indeed is an interesting thread. There is also a misconception about shot placement among many bowhunters. This becomes obvious on many of my seminars covering this topic. Unlike gun hunters we have to worry more about than just hitting a deer somewhere upfront. A deer shot with a firearm dies of shock. A deer shot with an arrow dies of massive blood loss leading to cardiac arrest. In order to aid massive blood loss we have to get the arrow into the lungs and heart, preferably both.

The problem some hunters have is realizing just how low these organs are. A live deer looks very deceptive with its huge chest area. But look at the pictures and you will see just how low these organs are. Everything above the lungs is meat and solid bone. It is an established fact that most non-fatal shots and clear misses are high.

Take into effect that most deer jump the string (duck) at the release of the arrow and it is easy to see why many miss high. A deer can trop in a split second to half of its body height. We can talk about all we want taking shots at relaxed deer but the truth is that this happens very rarely. Even from the fasted and quietest bow the deer will hear the sound of the arrow long before the arrow arrives. The only time that the arrow is faster than the sound is if the deer stands at about 10 ft. to 12 ft. from the base of the tree.

Another factor in favor of aiming low is that the higher the hunter is and the further a deer stands from the tree the higher the impact will be.
Think about this: A deer stands 10 yards from the base of your tree and you’re 12 feet above ground, that makes for about a 12-yard shot. But if you’re 30 feet up the tree, the shooting distance becomes now 14 yards. But the deer is still only 10 yards from the base of your tree. Think what the distance would be at 35 or even 40 feet up the tree. Now lets place that deer at the average bowhunting distance of 25 yards from the base of the tree. Now 30 feet off the ground results in a 50 yard and the 40 feet off the ground turns into a almost a 60 yard shot.

In my article “Hunting from High Above” I cover that subject in more detail. As a CORE instructor I would love to spend more time on the subject of proper shot placement, but time restriction do not permit this. I have developed short seminars and clinics devoted to this subject and if any of you own a hunting goods store or are a member of a Rod and Gun club and wish to host a shot placement clinic or would like more information on other clinic topics contact me, there are still a few dates available for this fall.


http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g221/huntwriter/Deer/arrow_impact.jpg
Great pic of shot placement ,thanks for posting.

[Ron.C]

I agree with huntwriters and feel that the most important aspect is knowing where the organs are and knowing how to adjust your aiming point in order to hit them properly, But feel calculations about how the shot distance while shooting from elevated positions gets overcomplicated in a hurry. In my experience, most treestands are hung between 12-16 feet. At this height while practicing shots from 5 to 40 yards the amount you need to hold over or "try to calculate" is negligable. What I mean is that if the horizontal distance from the base of the tree to the deer is say 18 yards, and the actual line of sight distance from the treestand to the deer is 22 yards, my 20 yard pin will do, in either case. Learn and Know the tragectory of your arrow through practice and there will be know need for worrying about calcualtions when the time comes.

[huntwriter]

You're very welcome Hummer.

I haven’t done any seminars or clinics in British Columbia yet. Most of my appearances are in the USA at hunting trade shows, sporting goods stores, clubs and other hunting related events. The same holds true for my pro-staff membership and sponsors, they are also mostly American.

I only live in BC since 2001 and still try to break into the market here. Living in BC, it seems proper to me to put more effort in my home area. Clinics are a big hit down in the states, especially with hunting goods stores and clubs but also outfitters, organizations and trade shows. They have realized that this is not only good customer/member/client service but also an excellent tool to attract more people and generate business. Here in BC this is still very new, in fact I am the only one offering this type and variety of services. Store owners, clubs and organizations still have to realize what great potential a clinic or seminar has for them.

In a few weeks my website will be finish, finally, and go online. I offer a variety of services from seminars to promotion, courses and hunting strategy consultancy, to name a few, for hunters and the hunting industry.

I appreciate your inquiries. If you or anybody would like more information of what I can do for you contact me by email at: atacov[at]yahoo.ca, Subject: SHS seminars.

By the way Hummer. It is a very good idea to use a life-sized deer target for practice. I use them all the time and it really helps to get familiar with the different impacts at various distances, heights and positions of game animals.

[huntwriter]

I agree with huntwriters and feel that the most important aspect is knowing where the organs are and knowing how to adjust your aiming point in order to hit them properly, But feel calculations about how the shot distance while shooting from elevated positions gets overcomplicated in a hurry. In my experience, most treestands are hung between 12-16 feet. At this height while practicing shots from 5 to 40 yards the amount you need to hold over or "try to calculate" is negligable. What I mean is that if the horizontal distance from the base of the tree to the deer is say 18 yards, and the actual line of sight distance from the treestand to the deer is 22 yards, my 20 yard pin will do, in either case. Learn and Know the tragectory of your arrow through practice and there will be know need for worrying about calcualtions when the time comes.

Very good points Ron. Practice is the key to learning arrow trajectory and impact at various distances/heights.

The guide I posted is not a rule written in stone. It’s just a visual guideline. There are many variables that can change the point of impact namely the sped of the arrow. I shoot a moderate speed bow and that is what I based the diagram on. A slow bow will have a different point of impact (spread further apart) and so will a very fast bow (point of impact very close together). With some of the ultra fast bows available the point of impact will be so small that you can hold almost dead center from 10 yards out to 20 or slightly over with no nmoticeable difference in point of impact.

I agree with you that calculations can get quickly very complicated and confusing. Besides, calculations are not as important for hunting as they are for competition shooting where every fraction of an inch counts. The reason I advocate to aim low is to eliminate confusion and keep it simple. Just aim low and the arrow WILL hit somewhere inside the 6" vital area of a deer.

Only practice will tell you exactly how the arrows behave from your bow setup. It is surprising - to some people - how quickly the information we gather through repeated practice will be ingrained in our brains. I rarely if ever consciously think about arrow impact, tajectory, animals postion and such things anymore, the brain acts instinctively and makes the compensations when needed.

To give a brief example. For a variety of reasons I was not able to shoot my bows for almost over a year. When I finally went to the range I was a little worried that I might have lost touch with my shooting skills and that the brain needed to be re-programmed again. To my surprise it took no more than two practice session of a half our each - I do not believe in long practice sessions shooting arrows for hours at a time - to get completely familiar with the bow again. The brain just kicked in and did its thing instinctively what it was trained to do. Getting the archery muscles back in shape was a different story, that took almost a week.:shock:

[tomahawk]

Good info from Ron and HW.
I do not go into the field with a pre-conceived notion of where the shot should be placed as there are too many variables that can make your choice for you. The best advice is to know the vitals inside out from broadside, 1\4 ering "to and from" and "above and below" and because you have practiced all these angles the right spot to aim comes very easily at the right moment. Thinking about the entry as well as the exit holes is an important strategy!

[Avalanche123]

For some reason because I shoot traditional, I don't factor distances into the equation as I have no sight pins etc....

I shoot from different elevations, distances, angles to get a feel for what will occur. I find the process quite simple but practise is the key word.

That said, HW post are definitely informative but the "math" isn't something I really consider when I shoot.

[greybark]

For some reason because I shoot traditional, I don't factor distances into the equation as I have no sight pins etc....

I shoot from different elevations, distances, angles to get a feel for what will occur. I find the process quite simple but practise is the key word.

That said, HW post are definitely informative but the "math" isn't something I really consider when I shoot.


;-)Hey A123 , H 47 , When starting out quite a while ago I experienced the problem of shooting dowhill . (even close downhill small 3-d targets) presented a problem. My instintive point of aim was always high .One of the top recurve shooters at that time told me to focus on my instintive point of aim THEN physicly force your bowarm slightly lower untill you were comfortable with the new required DOWNHILL aiming point then release with emphisis on not dropping your bowarm . That process soon developed cofidence in these shots ....
Still to this very day I take two practice arrows with my broadheads up into my stand . When leaving after the morn hunt I pick out two targets and use the practice arrows and pick them up for the next day . Well worth the mental prep for the real thing .
Hope this helps.
Cheers

[huntwriter]

That said, HW post are definitely informative but the "math" isn't something I really consider when I shoot.

There is no “math” involved. I don’t know if you ever shot with a compound or not. If you haven’t, you would be surprised how similar the two are in this regard.

I shoot a traditional recurve but haven’t the time for the practice needed to get into hunting shape with it. Still I have great fun stump shooting at 10 yards.:-)

As you mentioned, with a recurve you don’t aim but you still train the brain to register the different angles and elevations you need to make to get that perfect shot until it becomes instinctive.

It’s exactly the same with a compound bow. The only difference is that the shooter aims at the target with a pin sight. Obviously using a sight makes it easier because the shooter has not to learn two things all at ones, but everything else remains the same and will become instinctive with the proper amount of practice and time.;)

Now all this talk about shot placement made me itchy. I think I'll grab my bow, head to my backyard and whack some arrows in the target. See you all later.:grin:

[Avalanche123]

I figured it out with lots of practise from shooting from an elevated angle. You are correct in that it where I wanted to put the arrow had to be modified and that part was not instinctive.

I guess my point was I didn;t need to know distances, hence choosing the right sight pin etc.... so I thought that was easier.

I rightfully cannot make comparisons of any other archery weapons as I have not really shot them. Being a left hand shooter really limits who's bow I can shoot LOL, especially where I live.

When in my tree stand, I do the samething as yourself GB.....

Thanks again for the informative posts.

[huntwriter]

Being a left hand shooter really limits who's bow I can shoot LOL, especially where I live.

I know your feeling. I am a left hand guy too but right eye dominant. I had to learn to shoot my bows and firearms right handed. Looks really funny, I am told, when I load the arrows and bullets with the left hand and then shoot right handed.:smile:

[Avalanche123]

I am a right hand guy but left eye dominant. As a kid I shot a bow right handed and as an adult some pointed out I was left eye dominant, I had to relearn the whole thing! Now I can actually hit something LOL

I did try and shoot my brothers right hand compound but it was incredible awkard to the point it was almost scary!

[springpin]

This thread has been very informative.

I am also a South paw.

Springpin

[hunter1947]

I have practiced about 1hr every day and now I can put the bolt in a 3 inch circle at 10 yards ,20 ,30 ,40.

I am comfortable with my shot placements at these distance's http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[Avalanche123]

Well done! What critter is first on your list?

[hunter1947]

Well done! What critter is first on your list?
A123 ,No real chose ,I just want something that has a good antler mass ,if not it walks.