regional leh for deer

[bc-shedder]

I was going to amke this a poll but i dotn no how so lets just see what people say.
Do you think it would be fair to run are deer season as the states does by any one out of region has to put in for a LEH to be aloud to bag a deer?

[stanway]

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely. Do you mean, if I live in region 2 and want to hunt deer in region 8, that I must have a LEH for that region?

If that's your question, then no, I would not favor that.

James

[happygilmore]

????????
States should be a blocked word!

[mcrae]

No we all live and pay taxes in BC so we should be allowed to hunt our own province without further restrictions during a GOS...

[rocksteady]

Uh-oh BC-Shedder, I think you opened up a whole big can of whoopass on this one.......

[BlacktailStalker]

Sounds good, but the same goes for Island elk then :):):)

[ruttinbuck]

I was going to amke this a poll but i dotn no how so lets just see what people say.
Do you think it would be fair to run are deer season as the states does by any one out of region has to put in for a LEH to be aloud to bag a deer?
We ahve more than enough LEH restrictions now where we should have GOS.Please don't give the gov't another money grab.RB

[Phil]

Not a chance! Part of the sport that I enjoy is searching out new areas to hunt. Come September I would like to reap the benefits of my labours, if I should be so lucky. The last thing I need is to be limited by more LEH and kiss more of my $$ away.

[bc-shedder]

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely. Do you mean, if I live in region 2 and want to hunt deer in region 8, that I must have a LEH for that region?

If that's your question, then no, I would not favor that.

James
yes that is what i meant
and hahaha yeah i wanted to see everyones opinion on it. will probably end up be a big can of worms post lol

[BigBanger]

Nope . Me no like idea .

[Vansmasher]

me no like either

[Steeleco]

N.F.W.!!!
Now take the rest of this day off! :eek::eek:

[todbartell]

I think if some of the residents of those states in the US got out from their county a lil more often they'd might do wonders for the gene pool

[dana]

Actually I think you don't have a good grasp on the Resident/Nonresident tag system many western states have. It isn't based on a Region. It is based on the State. Residents of the state can put in for Resident LEH tags and Non residents of that state can put in for nonresident LEH tags. Most states of course allot more tags to residents than to nonresidents. This is why USO sued because they figured if you were a US citzen, you should get equal treatment regardless of where you lived. They of course lost as wildlife are funded by individual state's own governments, not by the Federal government.
So are you proposing that we move to the same kind of draw system, where BC residents are alloted a certain number of LEH tags and the nonresidents (Canadian and US) are alloted tags as well?

I know what your intent was, but your example was poor. ;)

[Blainer]

Very well put,Dana,you are a sharp individual & a fine photographer I might add.
I might add to this thread,N.F.W.,as Steeleco mentioned.

[bc-shedder]

well what i meant by it is any person from any region should have to put in for a leh for all animals if they are from a seperate region such as say i was from region 5 and wanted to hunt region 3 i should have 2 have a leh to go hunt that deer there. thats what im tryig to say hope that cleared it up a bit.

[dana]

Shedder,
I know what you are getting at. I would rather propose a Iron Curtain be put up at the Toll Booth. ;) I don't see a need for deer to be put to LEH. There is an over abundance of them across the province. But, on the critters that are LEH and that the managers feel need to stay LEH, I think there should be enhanced odds if you live within 100kms of the unit you are applying for.

[hunter1947]

I'm defiantly against this suggestion.

If anything the management should work on the LEH that is in place right now throughout BC and make it better it for all hunters.

[happygilmore]

Shedder,
I know what you are getting at. I would rather propose a Iron Curtain be put up at the Toll Booth. ;) I don't see a need for deer to be put to LEH. There is an over abundance of them across the province. But, on the critters that are LEH and that the managers feel need to stay LEH, I think there should be enhanced odds if you live within 100kms of the unit you are applying for.

AAAAA+++++

[bc-shedder]

[quote=dana;304143]Shedder,
I would rather propose a Iron Curtain be put up at the Toll Booth. ;)
hahah o boy that one may cause a bit of a war.

[GoatGuy]

Actually I think you don't have a good grasp on the Resident/Nonresident tag system many western states have. It isn't based on a Region. It is based on the State. Residents of the state can put in for Resident LEH tags and Non residents of that state can put in for nonresident LEH tags. Most states of course allot more tags to residents than to nonresidents. This is why USO sued because they figured if you were a US citzen, you should get equal treatment regardless of where you lived. They of course lost as wildlife are funded by individual state's own governments, not by the Federal government.
So are you proposing that we move to the same kind of draw system, where BC residents are alloted a certain number of LEH tags and the nonresidents (Canadian and US) are alloted tags as well?

I know what your intent was, but your example was poor. ;)

This does actually happen.

Northern residents in Ontario get their own quota for moose.

[bighornbob]

As Dana said in states each state runs its own wildlife so I would expect them to st the rules. Here in BC each region does not run its owns wildlife department (even though some guys think they do). The province funds all the programs. So for regions where there is little population base (say region 6), there programs are pretty much funded through tax dollars obtained somewhere else (most likely the southern coast.) Thats why it would not work here.

BHB

[peterrum3]

Can't agree with the original post nor the 100km rule brought up by Dana. Arbitrary number really, why not make it 20km, see where that can go. If we are from B.C. we can hunt anywhere in our province and i like it the way it is right now.

[happygilmore]

Can't agree with the original post nor the 100km rule brought up by Dana. Arbitrary number really, why not make it 20km, see where that can go. If we are from B.C. we can hunt anywhere in our province and i like it the way it is right now.

If I read his post right he wasn't saying you couldn't hunt everwhere just that your odds increased if you are within 100km for LEH. Not a bad idea and might get sucess #'s up, how many draws are wasted because something came up and the trip got cancelled or a guy puts in for two animals in a certain area and only draws one so he doesn't make the trip.

[Fisher-Dude]

You're all giving airtime to bc-shedder, who was banned for beaking off about "out-of-region" hunters in a thread last year. His attitude towards a fellow who shot a beautiful buck in the Clearwater area really stunk. Looks like he's trolling again on the same subject, making him a repeat offender.



The last time I checked it's the province who owns the wildlife and not the locals. I pay taxes just like you do in this province shredder and that gives me just as much right to hunt deer up there as you do.

Take two weeks to think about it. If you still feel the same way after two weeks then I can extend it for you.

Marc.

[BigBanger]

If I cant bag the deer in his region he cant bag the hookers in mine .

[Gateholio]

Any system that puts one BC hunter above another, is a bad idea, period.

The suggestion is ridiculous, and thankfully no government would ever consider it.

[bc-shedder]

You're all giving airtime to bc-shedder, who was banned for beaking off about "out-of-region" hunters in a thread last year. His attitude towards a fellow who shot a beautiful buck in the Clearwater area really stunk. Looks like he's trolling again on the same subject, making him a repeat offender.

FD arent u the shit disturber on here im not trying to get things goiing and it was a year ago who really cares im just wanted to see what some people thought of it but your trying to jump on me for a sugestion soo looks like your the one tryoing to turn it around so dont reply to it if you dont want to here what i wanted to see opinions from people.

[peterrum3]

Poorly worded on my part Happy and Dana, I meant to refer to LEH's and not hunting in general. i was going to type a bunch more but it appears that there is some history to this type of thread that i was not aware of. A hornets nest issue for sure but would not be supported by the majority of hunters i suspect. Thank goodness.

[dana]

In this day of use it or loose it when it comes to the Allocation Policy, if they gave locals enhanced odds (this isn't saying they will get the tag all the time, only a better chance) you would see success rates go up and those tags wouldn't fall into the hands of non-resident aliens through outfitters. Something to chew on eh?

[willyqbc]

But, on the critters that are LEH and that the managers feel need to stay LEH, I think there should be enhanced odds if you live within 100kms of the unit you are applying for

I believe this suggestion would help both hunters and wildlife managers in some instances.....specifically regions that show a high rate of under used LEH's. As an example...region 5....we all know the region 5 moose draw is quite popular and very few people who get drawn are gonna blow off a trip here for moose...BUT the doe draws that go out are hugely underutilized i believe, I suspect what happens is a lot of people from out of region put in for the moose here and then figure "might as well throw in for a doe while I'm at it." Now the problem as i see it is all the folks who don't pull the moose tag they were after are not going to drive all the way up here just for a doe. So we kill far fewer does than the wildlife managers want and we end up with a situation like we currently have in 5-14 where the buck/doe ratio is at a level the ministry is not happy with.
When there is a population that NEEDS to be controlled through an LEH hunt....try an make sure the tags will go to people who have the best chance of actually using them. Generally this would only apply to deer as I see it, keep the opportunity for all the premium critters wide open. If we increase the odds against an out of region hunter the LEH applications may fall for that region which as we know is a recipe for shifting allocations to the G/O's.

Just my opinin
Chris

[Fisher-Dude]

In this day of use it or loose it when it comes to the Allocation Policy, if they gave locals enhanced odds (this isn't saying they will get the tag all the time, only a better chance) you would see success rates go up and those tags wouldn't fall into the hands of non-resident aliens through outfitters. Something to chew on eh?

They would likely just reduce the number of tags because the utilization would be higher. The target harvest would remain the same. Your chances for the resulting harvest would be very much the same, as that's the determinant of your real odds of harvesting the animal, not the number of tags available under any system. Now, if we aren't meeting allocation harvest levels for residents, then it should be addressed through more tags being available. If the target harvest is still not achievable at 1:1 odds, then it should be on GOS.

Chris, the best solution to what you feel is a population explosion of deer that gets under-harvested in LEH is to go GOS! :wink: Deer aren't Category A, so they aren't on allocation and therefore there's no shift to G/Os.


Which species are affected by the new policy?
A species is considered to be “allocated” when at least one guide outfitter in the region has been put on a quota for harvesting that species. Species currently being allocated (refered to as “Category A”) include:

Bighorn sheep in Regions 3, 4, and 8
Bison in Region 7B
Caribou in Regions 5 and 6 (North)
Elk in Regions 1, 2, and 7B
Grizzly bears in Regions 1, 3, 4, 5, 6 (North & South), 7A, and 7B
Moose in Regions 3, 4, 5, 6 (North & South), 7A, and 8
Mountain goats in Regions 3, 4, 5, 6 (North & South), and 7B
Thinhorn sheep in Regions 6 (North) and 7B

[willyqbc]

Chris, the best solution to what you feel is a population explosion of deer that gets under-harvested in LEH is to go GOS! :wink: Deer aren't Category A, so they aren't on allocation and therefore there's no shift to G/Os.



FD I realize the deer arent schedule A, When I refferred to the increase in odds against an out of region hunter causing a decline in applications and therefore a shift to the G/O's I was reffering to schedule A animlas...primarily moose here. As for the Idea of GOS on muley does to bring the levels back to where the ministry wants them....we were told at the last allocation meeting in no uncertain terms that there will be no new GOS's in region 5 for the forseeable future (I won't get into the reasons again as it would derail this thread I'm sure:p) So... they want to harvest a ton of does but are unwilling to open a GOS to do it, the LEH's are being underutilized...so what options are we left with for options???

Chris

[wolverine]

I guess I can see why the Yanks do that considering the population diffences between Canada and the US but with the amount of game we have in this Province and the amount of licenced hunters I don't think it's necessary to prevent an area being cleaned out of game. Some of us are lucky enough to have almost everything in our backyards, so to speak, others are not. We are already over regulated.

Dr. Phil

[Fisher-Dude]

Hmmm Chris if they are stuck on LEH for flat tops, they will just have to give out more permits. If they aren't meeting harvest levels, I can't see why they wouldn't be open to it. I've tried for years to get a muley doe permit in region 5, and I've never drawn one. :cry: I'd gladly come up for my late season region 5 deer hunt and help out with that doe problem! :wink:

[Gateholio]

LEH chances based on your location are complete BS.

We are all British Columbians, we all pay taxes, and we all deserve the same kick at the can.

[Avalanche123]

In this day of use it or loose it when it comes to the Allocation Policy, if they gave locals enhanced odds (this isn't saying they will get the tag all the time, only a better chance) you would see success rates go up and those tags wouldn't fall into the hands of non-resident aliens through outfitters. Something to chew on eh?

Interesting "out of the box" thinking Dana.

I am not so sure I agree with it, however I appreciate the thought process. Definitely something to chew on...

[kishman]

No we all live and pay taxes in BC so we should be allowed to hunt our own province without further restrictions during a GOS...


.....Amen.8-)

[dana]

LEH chances based on your location are complete BS.

We are all British Columbians, we all pay taxes, and we all deserve the same kick at the can.


Look at the other side of the coin. You make your choices where you live. Everyone can choose to live where they want. That is the freedom of this country. Some choose to live a long ways from hunting grounds. Others choose to live in their hunting grounds. Those that live in their hunting grounds probably have a much better handle on where the game is and when than someone that lives in the concrete jungle of the Lower Mainland. Who's going to be successful more often? Is it fair that the guy that sacrifices to live in small town BC can't hunt his back yard because he can never draw?

[Gateholio]

Is it fair that the guy that sacrifices to live in small town BC can't hunt his back yard because he can never draw?

I don't feel that I sacrifice ANYTHING living in small town BC. I think I GAIN much. I wouldn't want to live in a city, I think you LOSE more.

I live in small town BC, and nobody would benefit more than me if we had a 100KM LEH enhanced odds system. Other than van Isle elk, all the LEH draws I put in for are within an hours drive from my house.

And I still say, "We are all BC er's, we should all have the same kick at the can"

There is one other option, of course. We could give enhanced odds based on how much taxes a person pays per year.That would be more fair than basing it on location. You get out, what you put in....:wink:

[Avalanche123]

I certainly don't feel I sacrifice anything by living in a small town. I chose to live here.

As others have said, the system does need to be fair and transparent to be acceptable.

Next idea? :smile:

[Flingin' Sticks]

Something to think about for sure with the 100KM idea. I think that for certain draws, it's probably a good Idea. Specifically, the draws where huge number of permits are being issued to keep populations in check or limit property damage (eg. the 7-20 elk draw late season). This would eliminate the need to open a GOS for this species which has the possibility of being overutilized and damaging the population numbers/balance. I know of lots of instances where a person will be drawn for this hunt, but because they have to travel so far up north, they just don't get around to do it. It'd be interesting to see, of the 1200+ authorizations, how many animals are actually harvested. I guess we'll see how herd numbers up there look now that the GOS season is so liberal.

[6616]

I don't feel there's much danger in the proposed elk GOS in 7-20. With the number of hunters we have today and record high deer and elk populations in many areas I feel we could utilize many more GOS hunts. The more GOS hunts there are, the less risk any one hunt will be over-utilized.

There appears to be too much unfounded fear of over-harvest. Wildlife populations, especially white tailed deer and elk, are not as vulnerable as we have been conditioned to believe in this era of overly conservative wildlife management. We learned some hard lessons in the mid-eighties, for example in the East Kootenay elk situation, and these lessons have created an overly conservative management attitude.

If we don't harvest more deer and elk in a several areas of BC we could be looking at severe winter losses which would probably far exceed the impacts of any hunting over-harvests, and then we'll be in a wildlife population recovery mode for many years with very poor hunting opportunities.

Regional preferred odds are no answer, and may even be unconstitutional.

[muley kid]

LEH chances based on your location are complete BS.

We are all British Columbians, we all pay taxes, and we all deserve the same kick at the can.


ya ya we all pay our taxes n shit but just cus u pay ur taxes doesnt give people the right to come into new areas and shoot a 3 point in 4 point season and leave it.. but again not saying it is anyone on this sight and not all are out of towners.. but maybe an LEH would be a good idea.. if you draw an leh you can have a choice of any buck through the general season.. thus would result in more 2 and 3 point rats that will be takin out of the gene pool and more mature bucks with good genetics will be able to breed.. which would result in bigger bucks which is good:razz: just my opinion but i am all for an LEH system:smile: though it would never happen there is always hope lol

[Gateholio]

. Seems to me it all is going toward the olympics you guys voted in. while we have a busy 2 lane hieway that has no passing lanes .

Sounds exactly like the highway in my neighborhood...But I'm still not in favour of preferences given to anyone due to their location, or any reason, for that matter.

[Gateholio]

ya ya we all pay our taxes n shit but just cus u pay ur taxes doesnt give people the right to come into new areas and shoot a 3 point in 4 point season and leave it.. but again not saying it is anyone on this sight and not all are out of towners.. but maybe an LEH would be a good idea.. if you draw an leh you can have a choice of any buck through the general season.. thus would result in more 2 and 3 point rats that will be takin out of the gene pool and more mature bucks with good genetics will be able to breed.. which would result in bigger bucks which is good:razz: just my opinion but i am all for an LEH system:smile: though it would never happen there is always hope lol


k well even though everyone pays taxes where does all the tax money go deffinetely dont get to see any of it around the little towns in the interior. Seems to me it all is going toward the olympics you guys voted in. while we have a busy 2 lane hieway that has no passing lanes yet they need a 4 lane hieway into whistler and new rinks and such and such the list is never ending. I dont know but my thread is getting off topic i think.


Do you 2 share a computer? IP adresses are very similar...hmmm

[sawmill]

I don't feel that I sacrifice ANYTHING living in small town BC. I think I GAIN much. I wouldn't want to live in a city, I think you LOSE more.

I live in small town BC, and nobody would benefit more than me if we had a 100KM LEH enhanced odds system. Other than van Isle elk, all the LEH draws I put in for are within an hours drive from my house.

And I still say, "We are all BC er's, we should all have the same kick at the can"

There is one other option, of course. We could give enhanced odds based on how much taxes a person pays per year.That would be more fair than basing it on location. You get out, what you put in....:wink:

Yeah ,I live in a small town
I was born in a small town
Probly stay in this same small town
And thats good enough for me

Sorry could not resist.I love it here and my draws are all local so they don`t go to waste.I have been putting in for antlerless elk in Kimberly area since it started and have been skunked but I sure see a lot of guys from the lower Mainland getting them,and more than once.The 100Klmsounds good to me.

[bc-shedder]

good to see its not going to become one of them locked threads keep opinions comming.

[Gateholio]

Sorry could not resist.I love it here and my draws are all local so they don`t go to waste.I have been putting in for antlerless elk in Kimberly area since it started and have been skunked but I sure see a lot of guys from the lower Mainland getting them,and more than once.The 100Klmsounds good to me.

I almost always get skunked on LEH, but still believe that giving preferential treatment will just diminsh hunters and hunting opportunity.

Yes, I'd liek to get more local LEH, but I'm not so greedy as to put myself first.8)

[Steeleco]

good to see its not going to become one of them locked threads keep opinions comming.

So long as it stays civil, it'll stay open. As all threads do :!:


I almost always get skunked on LEH, but still believe that giving preferential treatment will just diminsh hunters and hunting opportunity.

Yes, I'd liek to get more local LEH, but I'm not so greedy as to put myself first.8)

Agreed, a few years back a friend told me his philosophy with regard to LEH, "it's just like the 6-49, a lottery, and I don't win that either" sounded so good I adopted it!!!

[TIKA 300]

So lets look @ the larger picture here !!!!!!!

Ifin we have higher odds within 100 k of an area we live,WHO and the HELL is gonna put money back into THE SMALL TOWN economy,are those who live there gonna spend more on groceries,gas liquor etc,etc..........

Last year ,on our way to the Parsnip,the one store was so bloody busy,i thought we we're still in the lower rainland.........

While we're at it lets put a 100k restriction on BEACHES,and fishing lakes than see how small communities SURVIVE ?????????I can imagine already what its like because of gas prices..........

[Avalanche123]

Valid point Tika....it won't do much for the local economy from the spin off effect from out of town hunters.

Doesn't seem like the high gas prices are affecting the out of town fishers though from the amount of traffic we have here this summer....

[stanway]

Agreed, a few years back a friend told me his philosophy with regard to LEH, "it's just like the 6-49, a lottery, and I don't win that either" sounded so good I adopted it!!!


That's how I look at it too. I try to think positive and not get mad about drawing 'nil'. I have been lucky in LEH's - mind you, I would trade that luck for some winning 6/49 numbers.:wink:

:biggrin:

[riflebuilder]

I think that all BC residends should be teated equal and fairly. The system we have though not perfect is fair. Where you live in this province should not have any effect on your draw odds. The only enhanced draw should be for first time hunters or youth hunters. I would support a system where a percentage of LEH tags were only available to first time or youth hunters. We need kids and newbies to have a good time and be sucessfull. I know what it was like when my boys got thier first deer.

[Deaddog]

I believe we are struggling to keep hunting numbers up as it is, any more restrictions that we place on each other can only hurt the recruitment and retention of more hunters, I like to see people from where ever they live out hunting, if it's in my back yard.... well stop in for a coffee. I would love to see leh's gone for good (if the population can withstand a gos) not more leh's. DD

[oldtimer]

Any system that puts one BC hunter above another, is a bad idea, period.

The suggestion is ridiculous, and thankfully no government would ever consider it.
Actually Gate I believe we already have this in B.C. Without derailing this thread or getting booted for picking on a group of people I will let you figure it out. Mike

[Gateholio]

Actually Gate I believe we already have this in B.C. Without derailing this thread or getting booted for picking on a group of people I will let you figure it out. Mike

Well, yes, but I think that's beyond the scope of this discussion...:wink: