Youth hunts in a bow season ....

[BCrams]

Time for another poll -

In light of the UBBC / TBBC wishing not to let youth use their weapon of choice during a bow only season, I'd like to see where the sentiments lie with everyone here.

I bow hunt and I fully support youth using their weapon of choice during the bow season!

[Fisher-Dude]

Clarification: Although I'm not currently a bow hunter, I will be using archery tackle this fall to bow hunt. And I support youths having the right to choose their weapon during the youth seasons.

[Ron.C]

I have bowhunted elk the last couple years in an area where youth can hunt deer during bow season with a rifle. The youth season hasn't hurt my hunt in any way. As a matter of fact if I ran into a youth hunter/escort, I would happily tell them where I had been seeing deer. My son never really got the itch to hunt, but the two guys I usually hunt with have young boys and I would love to see them in camp taking advantage of a youth season when they are of age.

[Steeleco]

I too don't bow hunt, but have issue with them wanting to shut down the youth hunt. I have NEVER seen a bow hunter in an area I've been hunting at any time. And no I don't road hunt all the time!!! I don't see the incidence of bow/rifle hunter encounters any worse in this time, than when any Tom Dick and Harry can pack a rifle and a 6 pack???

Now that said, IF the government were to have youth rules during GOS then I could see a separate and distinct bow season, similar to what is there in areas AFTER the GOS ends.

[jrjonesy]

In regards to the UBBC thread, I also would support this as an "any deer" season for youth during the bow season for muley or WT.

[Ambush]

BCrams:

Your poll but, to make it more accuratly reflective, respondees should state their hunting method. We would expect rifle hunters to choose any weapon.

I'll start by saying youth should have the most liberal seasons possible. Get them hunting and liking it by having success. Success in this case being a cut tag. Whatever weapon.

I hunt bow only.

Another dimension: any adult caught filling a youth hunters tag, show no mercy. Ten years no hunting seems about right!

[Fisher-Dude]

Another dimension: any adult caught filling a youth hunters tag, show no mercy. Ten years no hunting seems about right!

SF, you and I agree, strongly, for a change! :wink:

[BCrams]

BCrams:

Your poll but, to make it more accuratly reflective, respondees should state their hunting method. We would expect rifle hunters to choose any weapon.

I'll start by saying youth should have the most liberal seasons possible. Get them hunting and liking it by having success. Success in this case being a cut tag. Whatever weapon.

I hunt bow only.

Another dimension: any adult caught filling a youth hunters tag, show no mercy. Ten years no hunting seems about right!

Why don't you vote?? Its really clear cut. As a bow hunter yourself - do you support youth using their weapon of choice? Whether its a bow or firearm?

It is obvious most people support weapon of choice during the bow season for youth. Whereas the UBBC / TBBC have their proposals to counter this.

[jrjonesy]

I agree with RonC.'s points too. I hunt most of the GOS with my bow and still manage to do OK. Now don't get me wrong, I like the bow only seasons, but I don't see the increase in hunters due to the youth season having any effect. We need to continue to cultivate hunting and I'm for anyway we can keep the kids interested in it.

[hunter1947]

I'm all for it ,why not let the new hunters that just got into hunting try and fill there tags with a bow or rifle ,gives them more initiative to hunt.

[Avalanche123]

"I bow hunt and I fully support youth using their weapon of choice during the bow season!"

Ditto

I think it is the wrong approach to take something away form someone. If anything those poor youth will now have to make a choice as to whether or not to grab their bow or rifle before leaving on their hunt. :D

I should add that I bow hunt exclusively.

I think if the UBBC follow through with that proposal they are taking a step backwards.

[Ambush]

[quote=BCrams;301822]Why don't you vote?? Its really clear cut.


My Bad. I didn't even see the poll at the top. I have voted.

I will also have to find some way to dissagree with FD.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Simply put.......... it comes down to one question for archers to answer

" For the betterment of hunting in BC, are you willing to share an archery only season with rifle hunting youths??"

It's not like they want to open up the season completly to all rifle hunters.

The late archery season has not been infringed on.

The proposal for a Nov 11 archery mule deer season in Reg 8 conflicts with the whitetail GOS season, so, obviously, the UBBC is not worried about the deer being spooked by rifle hunters.:???:


SSS

[jrjonesy]

A little off subject but as a bowhunter, I hope this Nov 11 proposal doesn't go through. I always thought Mule deer were a little too susceptible to over hunting during this period. I think there can be plenty of opportunties for both bowhunters and youth without infringing on the peak mule deer rut.

[Onesock]

The reason I voted this way is I would like to see kids wanting to hunt with a bow having the best possible chance to do so. My hunts have never been comprimised by a youth rifle hunter, but that is only my hunts.

[Fisher-Dude]

A little off subject but as a bowhunter, I hope this Nov 11 proposal doesn't go through. I always thought Mule deer were a little too susceptible to over hunting during this period. I think there can be plenty of opportunties for both bowhunters and youth without infringing on the peak mule deer rut.

It's already in place, and was open last year. GOS 4 point only goes until Nov 10 in region 8. Tell me, do you believe the mule deer in region 8 are dumber than those in the next region over, region 3, where it's open for rifle season until Dec 10? And region 3 isn't a youth only season, it is GOS any hunter. :wink:

I think that 80+ years of hunting them in GOS until December, without a conservation concern in region 8, should have taught us that they can be hunted in the rut. Even in the 70s and 80s, with twice the number of hunters that we have today, the region 8 mule deer were hunted right through the rut, and the herds flourished, and it was any buck season. Now any buck is 3 weeks long. I don't think a few kids out hunting for a week in the rut will affect the populations one bit.

[BCrams]

I don't think a few kids out hunting for a week in the rut will affect the populations one bit.

It won't !

[Fisher-Dude]

The reason I voted this way is I would like to see kids wanting to hunt with a bow having the best possible chance to do so. My hunts have never been comprimised by a youth rifle hunter, but that is only my hunts.

Kids wanting to hunt with a bow can do so from Sep 1 - Dec 10 in region 8, with only 5 days off of mulies Nov 19 - 24. Whitetails can be hunted right through. That's a pretty darned good chance, and surpasses the opportunity afforded to rifle kids by two full weeks. I fully support any kid who wants to pick up a bow in any season, and kill any deer with fur on its tail. Likewise, I support any kid who wants to pick up grandpa's old 30-30 and do the same.

[budismyhorse]

I bow hunt, and am for it.

that has been the way in the Koots for a long time now. Some guys whine about hearing shots ring out during that time, but nothing too serious. I think their whining falls on deaf ears when it comes to youth opportunity.

[jrjonesy]

I'm obviously not on an expert on it, just posting a thought. I'm sorry I had missed the youth season from the 11th to 18th. Not catching that, my post was more aimed at a bowhunting season in that time period. I had added the youth season as an afterthought (as it increases numbers) without realizing it already existed. I have no numbers but if I had to guess, I would guess that there are FAR more bowhunters (which would include x-bows) around that would have an impact than the relatively few (unfortunately) youth hunters. In other words I stand corrected regarding the youth season but still see no need to expand the bow season.

Being that I keep pretty much to region 8 and don't follow the open seasons or have exposure to the deer populations in other regions I guess I would have to ask why the GOS in region 8 does not include the 11th to the 18th if not to protect the herd from over harvest?

[Fisher-Dude]

Being that I keep pretty much to region 8 and don't follow the open seasons or have exposure to the deer populations in other regions I guess I would have to ask why the GOS in region 8 does not include the 11th to the 18th if not to protect the herd from over harvest?

Well ya see, we have this biologist who went for Nov 10 after the bad 1997 winter to rebuild the herds, and he's thinking of retirement at some point here with huge MD populations...'nuff said?

The regs are due for review and change for the 2009/10 season (it's on a two year schedule now unless there is a serious conservation concern). Trust me when I say that the region 8 FHAC will have proposals to deal with an overly-abundant deer herd in the 2009 meetings. :wink:

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Being that I keep pretty much to region 8 and don't follow the open seasons or have exposure to the deer populations in other regions I guess I would have to ask why the GOS in region 8 does not include the 11th to the 18th if not to protect the herd from over harvest?

Brian Harris thinks they're all dumb, love-drunk animals that time of year.
funny they are not like that in Reg 3:roll:.

SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

Pretty strong support so far for our current youth seasons, from both bow hunters and rifle hunters. I'm glad that so many people "get it" that we need youth hunters, BIG time! :smile:

[BCrams]

Who is UBBC / TBBC speaking for then?

[Avalanche123]

"Who is UBBC / TBBC speaking for then?"

There are only been 35 respondants to the poll. Maybe this poll should be posted on the UBBC/TBBC website forums.

The UBBC/TBBC website forums are nowhere near as active as this one. In fact of all the website forums I participate in, they are the least active. (Maybe the poll won't generate much response there either.?)

[happygilmore]

Ok only 3 others don't suport it. let me explain my vote... I think bow should start one week before youth then youth get their week (along with black powder) then open for everyone.8)
I bet there are some youth archery hunters who would like to get out early. That way we can promote youth into archery and hunting in general.

[Fisher-Dude]

Ok only 3 others don't suport it. let me explain my vote... I think bow should start one week before youth then youth get their week (along with black powder) then open for everyone.8)
I bet there are some youth archery hunters who would like to get out early. That way we can promote youth into archery and hunting in general.

What about the other way around? Youth hunt late Aug while the kids are still free from school worries, and bow after that? Not saying that's what I'm in favour of, but I'd like to hear your view on it.

[Remington]

Ready, set, Flame on!

I could write an entire book on why this select hunt is unfair. It would be intresting to see how many voted for letting the youths hunt in there own season, but at the same time want an equal oppurtunity LEH.

The argument that we need more youth involved in hunting is only half true. In fact we need more people of ALL ages hunting and by setting special intrest hunt groups we are kicking ourselves in the nuts.

Im fully against the youth season for many reasons. I mainly hunt in Region 3 MD so it may be diffrent in others.

It is not a fair hunt to the other hunters, Why do we have all these little breakoff special intrest groups. Most of the Hunters I know started hunting after their Youth so why shouldnt they also be allowed to hunt deer in a similar season? Many people I hunt have yet to take a deer let alone a trophy animal. Giving these youths a rifle in the bow season opens them up to huge advantage for a trophy quality animal over the general open season. In my region the bow season and youth season is an open to any buck, then it switches into a 4 point only season MD season.

Now the general season Rifle hunters have a smaller population of 4 point deer to hunt due to the previous youth season. A SUGGESTION would be to move the Youth season hunt forwards into the general open 4 point season in a SPIKE/FORK YOUTH SEASON. After all these are supposed junior hunters so what would it matter if the could only shoot the spikes?

This type of Hunt for new hunters would benefit everyone. It would make them learn antler identification for the upcoming 4 point season. If they want to shoot a 4 point or bigger trophy well guess what folks theres a General open 4 point season they can participate in.

[Avalanche123]

Good points Remington! Always interesting to see the different opinions. I started hunting as a youth (hmmm 10ish I think) with my Dad and there certainly wasn't any special seasons for anyone. It was no deterent for my brother or I.

I still think if people are keen to hunt they will hunt. "Little Johnny's" who's parents don't hunt certainly isn't going to get into hunting cause of a youth season, no matter what the weapon of choice IMO. IMHO the interest is generally generated by a parent.

Anyway my point is, is that any choice of weapon, season, species, or whatever doesn't do much to influence youth. Admittedly, this may be my ignorance speaking however I have always said, "if they are keen, they will go!"

However.....might as well set them up for success, whether it be during a rut or whatever.

[horshur]

Ready, set, Flame on!

I could write an entire book on why this select hunt is unfair. It would be intresting to see how many voted for letting the youths hunt in there own season, but at the same time want an equal oppurtunity LEH.

The argument that we need more youth involved in hunting is only half true. In fact we need more people of ALL ages hunting and by setting special intrest hunt groups we are kicking ourselves in the nuts.

Im fully against the youth season for many reasons. I mainly hunt in Region 3 MD so it may be diffrent in others.

It is not a fair hunt to the other hunters, Why do we have all these little breakoff special intrest groups. Most of the Hunters I know started hunting after their Youth so why shouldnt they also be allowed to hunt deer in a similar season? Many people I hunt have yet to take a deer let alone a trophy animal. Giving these youths a rifle in the bow season opens them up to huge advantage for a trophy quality animal over the general open season. In my region the bow season and youth season is an open to any buck, then it switches into a 4 point only season MD season.

Now the general season Rifle hunters have a smaller population of 4 point deer to hunt due to the previous youth season. A SUGGESTION would be to move the Youth season hunt forwards into the general open 4 point season in a SPIKE/FORK YOUTH SEASON. After all these are supposed junior hunters so what would it matter if the could only shoot the spikes?

This type of Hunt for new hunters would benefit everyone. It would make them learn antler identification for the upcoming 4 point season. If they want to shoot a 4 point or bigger trophy well guess what folks theres a General open 4 point season they can participate in.

adults whining about kids having an advantage. pathetic!

[Gateholio]

adults whining about kids having an advantage. pathetic!

It's worse than that...It's an adult concerned that a kid might have an advantage and might shoot a big deer.

[Remington]

Actually no not quite, nice try. You wanted an opinion from somone that has a diffrent perspective on your kids "special season", thats my opinion. Your so called advantage from all that Ive seen is a bunch of kids Road hunting with one adult in the truck.

Golf Clap.....

Great way to introduce new people to hunting and further kick ourselves down into how the non hunting comunity view us already.

In the Last Bow season I counted over 35 vehicles in one day all road Hunting with junior hunters. Hell in fact majority of those deer were shot within 50 yards of a main road. WOW NOW THATS HUNTING!

Id like to see just one kid out in the woods with dad or whoever and I might have a slight bit of compasion for this season.

I got another great SUGGESTION since your clique wont address mine or even comment without name calling. How about a push towards an All motorised vehichle ban during the Bow and Junior hunting season?

Further More if your even reading this far down, Your vote on this subject is nil if you have kids cause you are then bias towards the hunting season and are therefore just being a good parent looking out for your kids better intrest. :roll:

[Gateholio]

]
Actually no not quite, nice try. You wanted an opinion from somone that has a diffrent perspective on your kids "special season", thats my opinion. Your so called advantage from all that Ive seen is a bunch of kids Road hunting with one adult in the truck.

Golf Clap.....

Great way to introduce new people to hunting and further kick ourselves down into how the non hunting comunity view us already.

In the Last Bow season I counted over 35 vehicles in one day all road Hunting with junior hunters. Hell in fact majority of those deer were shot within 50 yards of a main road. WOW NOW THATS HUNTING!

Id like to see just one kid out in the woods with dad or whoever and I might have a slight bit of compasion for this season.

So if the parents take thier kids out hunting the way *you* deem acceptable, it's okay, but not if they use other methods. It's pretty arrogant to suggest that only *your* method of hunting is a valid one.



I got another great SUGGESTION since your clique wont address mine or even comment without name calling. How about a push towards an All motorised vehichle ban during the Bow and Junior hunting season?

To accomplish what?


Further More if your even reading this far down, Your vote on this subject is nil if you have kids cause you are then bias towards the hunting season and are therefore just being a good parent looking out for your kids better intrest. :roll:

I don't have kids and don't intend to.

I am not concerned that a kid may have an advantage over me, or that he may shoot a big deer. If a kid gets a deer, I'm happy for him. If he gets a big deer, I'm even happier for the kid.

[Remington]

Gatehouse :

Not Arrogant at all, I believe and was raised so that Road Hunting is an unethical way to hunt, apparently you have a Diffrent view, thats fine. I dont understand where all your personal Attacks are coming from here? you posted a thread on personal opinions as to what people think of a special season. I gave mine which is there should be no special seasons and everyone should have an equal Bang at the Buck. Im not satified with this season as a hunter and am looking for positive ways to make it better.

The motorised vehicle ban would get those 2km/h vehicles off the bloody road and into the woods to experience nature not 50 cents greatest Hits on the Stereo. Again maybe you Prefer listening to a lil "Fiddy cent" while hunting others may differ. I spot and stalk hunt myself, doesnt seem to allow for those motorised comforts and in the end is a much more acomplished feeling when Im lucky.

Good on ya brother I dont want you having Kids either.


Gatehouse you wouldnt happen to have a website address for the "UBBC/TBBC" Id like to make a Donation to them regarding this Issue.

:razz:

[6616]

Gatehouse :
Good on ya brother I dont want you having Kids either.
:razz:

Disagreement or having a differing opinion is not a personal attack,,,, but the above quoted statement sure as heck is!

[Smokepole]

by setting special intrest hunt groups we are kicking ourselves in the nuts.
It is not a fair hunt to the other hunters, Why do we have all these little breakoff special intrest groups.


Gatehouse :

there should be no special seasons and everyone should have an equal Bang at the Buck. Im not satified with this season



I'm just curious, does that include bow only seasons too?

[Remington]

:cry: Ill just let my little yellow guy do the talking until someone from the clique has something constructive too add...:cry:

Like a positive alternative to this youth season...?

[Gateholio]

]
Gatehouse :

Not Arrogant at all, I believe and was raised so that Road Hunting is an unethical way to hunt, apparently you have a Diffrent view, thats fine.

I do have a different view. I believe that any legal method of hunting is okay by me, and that if others want to employ a different legal method of hunting than I do, that is fine with me. To each his own.



I dont understand where all your personal Attacks are coming from here?

I disagree with you. that's not a personal attack.



you posted a thread on personal opinions as to what people think of a special season. I gave mine which is there should be no special seasons and everyone should have an equal Bang at the Buck. Im not satified with this season as a hunter and am looking for positive ways to make it better.

Again, you posted your opinion, others have posted their opinion. There have been no personal attacks.



The motorised vehicle ban would get those 2km/h vehicles off the bloody road and into the woods to experience nature not 50 cents greatest Hits on the Stereo. Again maybe you Prefer listening to a lil "Fiddy cent" while hunting others may differ. I spot and stalk hunt myself, doesnt seem to allow for those motorised comforts and in the end is a much more acomplished feeling when Im lucky.

I hunt the way I want to, and employ various means to do this, depending on the circumstances. I don't enjoy road hunting as much as other types, but I have done it, and I sure as hell am not going to tell some dad and his grinning 12 year old son standing over a deer that they "didn't hunt correctly" and therefore it is a bad thing they have done.


Good on ya brother I dont want you having Kids either.

This, however- could be construed as a personal attack but since my skin is thick, I'll let it slide....



Gatehouse you wouldnt happen to have a website address for the "UBBC/TBBC" Id like to make a Donation to them regarding this Issue.

:razz:

I am sure a Google search could turn up the websites requested.

[Gateholio]

You appear to want some input on these issues, so:

]
Ready, set, Flame on!

I could write an entire book on why this select hunt is unfair. It would be intresting to see how many voted for letting the youths hunt in there own season, but at the same time want an equal oppurtunity LEH.

Apples and oranges, really. Letting a kid get a chance is a valuable recruitment tool. LEH is a bonus system to allow some hunting opportunity in areas that cannnot (in theory) be open to a GOS.




The argument that we need more youth involved in hunting is only half true. In fact we need more people of ALL ages hunting and by setting special intrest hunt groups we are kicking ourselves in the nuts.

We do need more hunters of all age groups, but it's pretty clear that kids that get involved in an activity are more likely to continue with the activity for thier lifetime.




It is not a fair hunt to the other hunters, Why do we have all these little breakoff special intrest groups. Most of the Hunters I know started hunting after their Youth so why shouldnt they also be allowed to hunt deer in a similar season?

Other than brief period of hunting when I was about 14 (I did it myself with no mentor- Long story short is that I taught myself how to use a bow and killed a deer with it on my own) I also started hunting as an adult. It was a hard road, learning to hutn by yourself, and I'm nowhere near as good as others my age that started when I was a kid...But I don't see anything wrong with kids having a extra opportunity.


Many people I hunt have yet to take a deer let alone a trophy animal. Giving these youths a rifle in the bow season opens them up to huge advantage for a trophy quality animal over the general open season. In my region the bow season and youth season is an open to any buck, then it switches into a 4 point only season MD season.

#1 Guys that are after "trophy" quality deer are not going to have a problem with a couple of nice bucks shot by youth. In real numbers, it's unlikely these kids are all going to be taking trophy deer. Guys that are hard core trophy hunters aren't going to see an impact.

#2 Why would ANYONE begrudge a kid from taking a trophy deer if they happen to get lucky?


Now the general season Rifle hunters have a smaller population of 4 point deer to hunt due to the previous youth season.

Does it really matter if there are 3 less trophy bucks in Region 3 to hunt, since 3 kids got lucky?


A SUGGESTION would be to move the Youth season hunt forwards into the general open 4 point season in a SPIKE/FORK YOUTH SEASON. After all these are supposed junior hunters so what would it matter if the could only shoot the spikes?

I'd prefer the kid be able to shoot any deer. the first one that the kid came across would be fine. If it happened to be a 180 mulie, then so be it...


This type of Hunt for new hunters would benefit everyone. It would make them learn antler identification for the upcoming 4 point season. If they want to shoot a 4 point or bigger trophy well guess what folks theres a General open 4 point season they can participate in.

No, it wouldn't benefit everyone.

It would place further restrictions on kids, and not help hunters out for trophy class deer in any measurable way.

[Remington]

Obviously we dont see eye to eye on this issue, Youth are going to hunt if they want to hunt. I was raised in a hunting family, got my core done at 10 like everyone else i assume and had been in the field well before that. Had a lot of freinds that hunted in their youth as well ID say about 50 % them still continue to do so.

The only special intrest Group I'd have any tolerance for would be Seniors and only for guys that have been putting in for a set of consecutive unsuccessful draws. As they have a limited time to hunt left.

As I said before equal oppurtunity for everyone. If isnt equal it isnt fair. I do my part getting people I know into hunting as best I can, unfortunately they are far from youths and are forced to hunt in high pressured open area's or Seasons with trophy seasons with Restrictions where those animals have been hunted and harvested giving them decreased odds.

If a kid gets a Monster deer I say good on him, excellent work, Id prefer to see it when everyone else has the same oppurtunity.

Now IMO these non-youth guys would do a lot more for the hunting population by not only bring in there own future kids but themselves as well. Why shouldnt they get an fair shot too as new hunters instead of just the youths?

The Youth hunting season opens up too many chances for un ethical hunting imo and when I see 12 year old kids supposedly shooting a 300 win mag or the like at a large buck I find that a little too much to believe. Sounds like daddy did a lil more than help him get the gun out of the truck to me.

For the record Calling someone a "Pathetic Adult" and "Worse than Pathetic" is also a personal attack all due to a diffrence of opinion. But since were playing nice I'll let them slide too...:)

[hunter1947]

The only thing that I would not support about this is that if the advanced hunter that was accompanying the new hunter took advantage of using the new hunters rifle to fill the tag and abusing the system..

The Yong hunter has a elk ,etc out at over 200 yards and he says I don't want to shoot out that far so the aged hunter says do you want me to take him ,the younger hunter says yes.

Done deal they keep there mouths shut and the young hunter clams the animal and tags it ,I'm sure there would be some of this crap going on ,not a lot but some.

[Fisher-Dude]

The argument that we need more youth involved in hunting is only half true. In fact we need more people of ALL ages hunting and by setting special intrest hunt groups we are kicking ourselves in the nuts.



I gave mine which is there should be no special seasons and everyone should have an equal Bang at the Buck.


I'm just curious, does that include bow only seasons too?

Like Smokepole, I really NEED Remmy's answer to whether he feels there should be NO BOW ONLY seasons. From his posts, I would assume that he is DEAD set against ANY special season for ANY special interest group, and therefore I would suggest that he not send his money to those groups who promote BOW ONLY seasons for their special interest groups. BTW Remmy, don't join the BCWF either, because we support youth seasons and BOW only seasons, and road hunters, and seniors, and trophy hunters, and meat hunters, and guys that hike 40 km to get their deer, all of whom could be considered "special interest groups".

[horshur]

The only special intrest Group I'd have any tolerance for would be Seniors and only for guys that have been putting in for a set of consecutive unsuccessful draws. As they have a limited time to hunt left.

As I said before equal oppurtunity for everyone. If isnt equal it isnt fair. I do my part getting people I know into hunting as best I can, unfortunately they are far from youths and are forced to hunt in high pressured open area's or Seasons with trophy seasons with Restrictions where those animals have been hunted and harvested giving them decreased odds.


Now IMO these non-youth guys would do a lot more for the hunting population by not only bring in there own future kids but themselves as well. Why shouldnt they get an fair shot too as new hunters instead of just the youths?

.
:)

then you should send your money to the BCWF for they have been trying to do away with the point restrictions.. there would never have been a need for a "Youth" season if the "Trophy" seasons had not been implemented...

however that said..Oct is any buck and as far as I'm concerned the best time of year to hunt a deer. Success is good if you hunt the mid elevation blocks that are just breaking into the valley after a good storm for the does are making a move and the yearlings usually are in tow.

[Avalanche123]

Remington, your're battling with the big guns now. Too bad you cooked your posts with the "having kids" comments.

IMHO words such as "pathetic and arrogant" would make my skin bristle as well as IMHO they are on the edge.

FD, Good job of sticking to the facts and reading through the "emotion" of the posts.

And as I have said, I support a youth season, but I still think any youth that want to hunt will, regardless of weapon, species, or time.

[Remington]

Bow seasons:

Yes I participate in them. After they are done I switch back and forth between the my bow or with my Rifles depending on where im going and what Im hunting. If there was No Bow only seasons Id do the same. It would just matter on what mood im in for the day to hunt with. I do on occasion take my bow out during Rifle season.

However I dont see how this is a Special Intrest Hunting Oppurtunity, Anyone and everyone out there can pick up a bow and participate in the same season for any buck. Heck its less restrictive than the Rifle seasons becasue there is no antler requirements involved.

Just because you Do not choose to take part in bow hunting does not make it a special season. You are encouraged to and have the Option to take part just like everyone else in this province.

A youth season is a season where only a select group of individuals can hunt at a certain time and area, in order to supposedly attracted generations of new hunters in. See the diffrence.

I'll join whatever club I wish too thanks, Ill join one that I feel represents me best and not just to get a flashy sticker I can put on the back of my PU truck.

Let the Big guns come out in force as I said in my first post at the very top. This is one Board that cannot accept some construcive critism against the cliques popular opinion. But my skin is very thick, Ill be fine.:biggrin:

I find it intresting that they love to knit pick my posts a part but have yet to offer any alternative solutions. The only one Ive seen that has any value is from Horshur who states that there should be no antler restrictions at all in a rifle season.

I agree with you on that and that would help get other new hunters involved that are not youth hunters. Well leaving it to the more experieced hunters to select a larger animal if they choose to do so.:mrgreen:

[Gateholio]

You say this:


However I dont see how this is a Special Intrest Hunting Oppurtunity, Anyone and everyone out there can pick up a bow and participate in the same season for any buck. Heck its less restrictive than the Rifle seasons becasue there is no antler requirements involved

But complain about this:


As I said before equal oppurtunity for everyone. If isnt equal it isnt fair. I do my part getting people I know into hunting as best I can, unfortunately they are far from youths and are forced to hunt in high pressured open area's or Seasons with trophy seasons with Restrictions where those animals have been hunted and harvested giving them decreased odds.

But everyone is free to hunt in areas/seasons without antler restrictions, just as everyone is free to use a bow....


]

Let the Big guns come out in force as I said in my first post at the very top. This is one Board that cannot accept some construcive critism against the cliques popular opinion. But my skin is very thick, Ill be fine.:biggrin:

It's not failing to accept constructive criticism- its that most on HBC disagree with you that there should be no youth seasons. All the hunting organizations seem to disagree with you, too.


I find it intresting that they love to knit pick my posts a part but have yet to offer any alternative solutions. The only one Ive seen that has any value is from Horshur who states that there should be no antler restrictions at all in a rifle season.

There are dozens of posts about youth seasons and solutions to youth recruitment posted on HBC.


I agree with you on that and that would help get other new hunters involved that are not youth hunters. Well leaving it to the more experieced hunters to select a larger animal if they choose to do so.:mrgreen:

Antler restrictions should be based on conservation first, but if there is no conservation concern, I don't see why we need them.

[Remington]

Gatehouse :

I dont really understand what point your trying to get at anymore. As I said before your knit picking my posts now and attempting to take one phrase and context it into another phrase. Its become overly Redundent by this point. Do you have any postive solutions you'd like to add or are you going to continue kicking a dead horse?

I have noticed a lot more people voting agaist the youth season after Ive spoken up. Good on them I say. Seems to be that the population vote is evening out imo.

After reading some of the previous posts I think that some people on here maybe viewing this as a selfish approach which I do not intend it to be. Im speaking for the people like my friends that have a limited amount of money and time set aside for maybe only a few days to maybe a week to get away hunting. Why should these guys who are paying more and contributing more have any less of an oppurtunity or advantage than a youth?

I myself devote all my time and available fund to time spent in the field because that is my passion.

It is extremly disheartening to see new people very intrested in hunting become discouraged because they havent been successful over a 5 year span due to an un equal hunting oppurtunity. If the deer herds are healthy enough to support an any buck youth season than they are healthy enough to support an open general season IMHO. People who want to take a trophy class animal like myself are quite content letting a smaller buck pass and holding out for a big one.

[Gateholio]

]
Gatehouse :

I dont really understand what point your trying to get at anymore.

Unfortunate.


As I said before your knit picking my posts now and attempting to take one phrase and context it into another phrase. Its become overly Redundent by this point.

Just demonstrating how subjective people can be with "fairness" arguments.



Do you have any postive solutions you'd like to add or are you going to continue kicking a dead horse?

Already made comments many times. I believe that a youth season with limited restrictions is a positive thing, and will not negatively impact any adults chances of killing a deer.




After reading some of the previous posts I think that some people on here maybe viewing this as a selfish approach which I do not intend it to be. Im speaking for the people like my friends that have a limited amount of money and time set aside for maybe only a few days to maybe a week to get away hunting. Why should these guys who are paying more and contributing more have any less of an oppurtunity or advantage than a youth?

Because it's important to have youth participating in hunting, important to make it as simple as possible for them to get a deer, and- It's not going to hurt your buddies chances of getting a deer, either.

Kids pay less to take the bus, get in movies etc than adults. They still take up a seat. We dont' charge kids tuition to go to school. We give kids a break because they are kids.

You claim that your views are not selfish, and perhaps that is true. I'd say it's closer to being spiteful. Your friends have limited opportunity to take advantage of BC's 3 month long GOS, so you don't want some kids to have any extra chance, either.


It i
s extremly disheartening to see new people very intrested in hunting become discouraged because they havent been successful over a 5 year span due to an un equal hunting oppurtunity.


Are you saying that you have seen people become discouraged from hunting over a 5 year span, because youth seasons limited thier chances of successfully killing a deer?


If the deer herds are healthy enough to support an any buck youth season than they are healthy enough to support an open general season IMHO.

What is your basis for this statement, and what are your back up facts?

[Remington]

Keep kicking the horse buddy, it may come back to life after all

[Gateholio]

Keep kicking the horse buddy, it may come back to life after all

Interesting response to direct questions......

[Remington]

:idea:

Read my above posts and you'll finds the answers to all your questions, than after youve done that and before you reply with your new questions read them reply's again to find the answers to those ones. Then when ever you find something useful to add hit your reply button. Until then Im no longer replying to your redundent questions.:smile:

[The Hermit]

In Kootney Elk camp we had four youths last year. All of them spent some time hunting with bows and two of whom also spent a couple days out with dads and uncles and gramps and a rifle. One of boys shot a deer with the rifle... we had a great time in camp that night!

Yeah we heard a few shots, maybe teh elk picked up their ears and were a little more wary hard to tell. We also took a couple nice elk...

I am personally for anything that helps to get kids in the field although I am concerned that opening the bow only seasons to rifle hunting youth has set a precedent and would STRONGLY argue against any further erosion of the bow only season.

[Gateholio]

:idea:

Read my above posts and you'll finds the answers to all your questions, than after youve done that and before you reply with your new questions read them reply's again to find the answers to those ones. Then when ever you find something useful to add hit your reply button. Until then Im no longer replying to your redundent questions.:smile:

Forgive me, I may have missed some answers in your posts to these questions. Maybe you could help out by clarifying your responses?



What would a motorized vehicle ban in Bow/Youth season accomplish? How will a motorized vehicle ban encourage youth hunter recruitment?

Are you saying that you have seen people become discouraged from hunting over a 5 year span, because youth seasons limited thier chances of successfully killing a deer?

What is the basis and back up evidence for this statement: If the deer herds are healthy enough to support an any buck youth season than they are healthy enough to support an open general season IMHO

When you said: ......there should be no special seasons and everyone should have an equal Bang at the Buck....

Does this indicate that you believe there should be no special seasons based on weapon choice, such as bow only season?

Thanks for the clarification..

[Fisher-Dude]

With record high deer populations, and 3 months of season, anyone who can't shoot a deer in a five year span...well...sucks, IMO. I could make up all kinds of stories to back up my arguments too, but I prefer to post the truth, as there are wayyyyyyy too many intelligent people on here to let bullshit get past their BS filters. :-P

And Remmy, if you bothered to read some of the "HBC clique's" posts, you'll see their big push to liberalize seasons and get antler restrictions tossed out the door. Hell, we're even pushing DOE seasons! :biggrin:

[Ambush]

I guess I'm a little dazed. I didn't actually realize that BCrams had two sister polls going at once.

BCrams: To be a fair poll, please give all the information on the UBBC proposal.

Before anybody votes [too late for me and others] read the post containing the entire proposal by the UBBC found in one of the posts by willyqbc in the other poll thread.

[dana]

Here's my take. I grew up in the OK bowhunting during the Sept 1-9th Any Sex, Any Age Bow seasons and the Nov buck bow seasons. I grew up with Fred Bear as my childhood hero so bowhunting is very near and dear to my heart. As far back as I can remember, the OK rifle season always ended on Nov 10th. I left the OK in 92. The devastating winterkill of 96 was the reason why many of the restrictive seasons came into place and for the most part, they have been very successful getting the deer herds back to abundance.
Since I moved to Region 3 in 92, I have not picked up the bow to hunt deer. To me, there isn't an incentive. An extra 9 days to an already long 3 month season, isn't really of importance to me. With only one muley buck regional baglimit, I'd hate to finish the season before it really started.
I have spent a considerable amount of time scouting bucks during that bowseason week. Never once have I ever seen a bowhunter. As a matter of fact, I rarely ever see a single other hunter during the entire month of Sept. The early 4 point or better season is very underutilized. Very very few hunters harvest their deer in Region 3 during that season.
Now, I have kids that are hunting age. Last year was the first year my son hunted during the early youth season. We never saw a single other hunter during that early season. Although we got in on a bunch of bucks during that week, a few that were indeed Giants, my son wasn't able to seal the deal. If anyone has never taken a kid hunting, then you don't have a clue how tuff it is to get success. Did you know kids are shorter than adults? Guess what, that makes things interesting. Imagine crawling to 15 yards from a 190 inch typical and your kid can't see the vitals due to tall fireweed. Crawling closer and closer, we finally stepped on a young double dropper NT that was bedded in that fireweed. When he bailed, the big typical trotted for the saftey of the timber. After passing on a ton of bucks, my son finally decided to take a 4x3 come the end of the Oct Any Buck season. Have you ever hunted a 4 point or better season with a kid? Now there is a lesson in frustration. Count points and make sure your kid is lookin at the same buck you are looking and hope to hell that buck presents an ethical shot opportunity at the vitals before he bails or mingles with other deer and you've got to start the process of IDing that buck all over again. No not fun. The Sept youth season on the other hand is AMAZINGLY FUN!

I have proposed this in the past, but the bowhunters don't like thinking outside the box. Why don't they push to get an Aug 15-31st bow season. A ton of western states have them and they are very successful. Then the youth can have Sept 1-9 to hunt with the weapon of their choice. I would propose that the regional baglimits change as well. Wouldn't be hard to add weapon to the current tags we use in our booklet. Because bowhunting sees very limited success, why not give some incentive and allow for a 2nd mule deer in the Region to be harvest with Archery equipment?
I believe that the way Region 7A is going about their youth seasons is right on the money. Any deer, buck or doe, all season long. No point restrictions. The rest of the Regions should follow suit.

[BCrams]

I guess I'm a little dazed. I didn't actually realize that BCrams had two sister polls going at once.

BCrams: To be a fair poll, please give all the information on the UBBC proposal.

Before anybody votes [too late for me and others] read the post containing the entire proposal by the UBBC found in one of the posts by willyqbc in the other poll thread.

I read it. And others can see my response.

The end result is the same. Bow only for youth during the Sept 1-9 season.

[6616]

Here's my take. I grew up in the OK bowhunting during the Sept 1-9th Any Sex, Any Age Bow seasons and the Nov buck bow seasons. I grew up with Fred Bear as my childhood hero so bowhunting is very near and dear to my heart. As far back as I can remember, the OK rifle season always ended on Nov 10th. I left the OK in 92. The devastating winterkill of 96 was the reason why many of the restrictive seasons came into place and for the most part, they have been very successful getting the deer herds back to abundance.
Since I moved to Region 3 in 92, I have not picked up the bow to hunt deer. To me, there isn't an incentive. An extra 9 days to an already long 3 month season, isn't really of importance to me. With only one muley buck regional baglimit, I'd hate to finish the season before it really started.
I have spent a considerable amount of time scouting bucks during that bowseason week. Never once have I ever seen a bowhunter. As a matter of fact, I rarely ever see a single other hunter during the entire month of Sept. The early 4 point or better season is very underutilized. Very very few hunters harvest their deer in Region 3 during that season.
Now, I have kids that are hunting age. Last year was the first year my son hunted during the early youth season. We never saw a single other hunter during that early season. Although we got in on a bunch of bucks during that week, a few that were indeed Giants, my son wasn't able to seal the deal. If anyone has never taken a kid hunting, then you don't have a clue how tuff it is to get success. Did you know kids are shorter than adults? Guess what, that makes things interesting. Imagine crawling to 15 yards from a 190 inch typical and your kid can't see the vitals due to tall fireweed. Crawling closer and closer, we finally stepped on a young double dropper NT that was bedded in that fireweed. When he bailed, the big typical trotted for the saftey of the timber. After passing on a ton of bucks, my son finally decided to take a 4x3 come the end of the Oct Any Buck season. Have you ever hunted a 4 point or better season with a kid? Now there is a lesson in frustration. Count points and make sure your kid is lookin at the same buck you are looking and hope to hell that buck presents an ethical shot opportunity at the vitals before he bails or mingles with other deer and you've got to start the process of IDing that buck all over again. No not fun. The Sept youth season on the other hand is AMAZINGLY FUN!

I have proposed this in the past, but the bowhunters don't like thinking outside the box. Why don't they push to get an Aug 15-31st bow season. A ton of western states have them and they are very successful. Then the youth can have Sept 1-9 to hunt with the weapon of their choice. I would propose that the regional baglimits change as well. Wouldn't be hard to add weapon to the current tags we use in our booklet. Because bowhunting sees very limited success, why not give some incentive and allow for a 2nd mule deer in the Region to be harvest with Archery equipment?
I believe that the way Region 7A is going about their youth seasons is right on the money. Any deer, buck or doe, all season long. No point restrictions. The rest of the Regions should follow suit.

Good post Dana. I have proposed the August season to F&W either for the youth hunt (school is still out) or for the bow hunt. I was told there's too much backcountry tourism today and F&W is afraid to overlap the tourist season with hunting seasons,,,, just more fear of thinking out of the box, in this case by F&W Branch, there's enough room out there for everyone IMHO and some of the tourist operations extend well into September so I don't buy that particular excuse.

[dana]

That's sad, but it doesn't surprise me. The government is all talk but no action. Bang the drum about Recruitment and then sit back and do nothing but twidle their thumbs. Ohh but it takes time to see changes. Yea right, I'm getting a little sick of that excuse. Youth tag prices would have been one of the easiest things to change this year. But, nope. We have to sit here and hear how it's all the hunter's fault for our current situation and the Ministry is full of Angels. Look at the new regs. Wahoo, they lowered the age of hunting by yourself to 18 from 19. Wow, that sure was a big step they took eh? Big freakin deal. Time they put up or shut up. The excuse we get spoonfed is they don't want to rock the boat before the next election. Hmm, makes you wonder where the new Gas Tax fits into that. Certainly rockin the boat as far as I can see and is gonna cost them when it comes to votes in the Interior. But noooo, it would be policital suicide before 2010 to lower youth tag fees.

[BCrams]

Good post Dana. I have proposed the August season to F&W either for the youth hunt (school is still out) or for the bow hunt. I was told there's too much backcountry tourism today and F&W is afraid to overlap the tourist season with hunting seasons,,,, just more fear of thinking out of the box, in this case by F&W Branch, there's enough room out there for everyone IMHO and some of the tourist operations extend well into September so I don't buy that particular excuse.

I had a similar conversation with another person regarding a bow season in August over lapping with the tourist season. I think it is a great to promote archery only between August 20th and August 31st. Like Dana, I have seen the amazing results of the archery seasons in the US with the late August archery only hunts.

While I do believe there are areas that should remain closed if there is historically high tourist numbers in a particular area. However, like you say, tourist season usually finishes with a bang on the September long weekend when weather is good, no bugs to deal with etc and most important, it coincides with the current opening and we have not heard any complaints have we.

[Remington]

Fisher-Dude:

Obviously you missed the part where I stated the new guys Im introducing to hunting have limited amount of funds and time to devote to hunting, so if they happen to get out once for a 5 day period and are unlucky due an antler restricted harvest that has already had ten previous day of hunting pressure I fail to see how they makes them "Suck" as a hunter. They are hard working, honest, Average Joes trying to get out and involed in the wilderness.

The Areas I know of and hunt happen to be within a reasonable driving distance and also happen to be primarily Mule deer territory. Unfortunately their available time happens to be in late mid late sept, thats just the way it is.

In fact they have seen their fair share of bucks, unfortunately they couldnt make out 4 points on one side and did the appropriate action by trying to get a closer look. Now maybe with their lack of experience they made and error and spooked the animal. Live and learn the hard way.

Your true colors sure shine through by further discouraging new hunters and making smug remarks about them when they arent here to defend themselves. Hope that makes you feel like a bigger man and a better hunter behind your screen.

[horshur]

Fisher-Dude:

Obviously you missed the part where I stated the new guys Im introducing to hunting have limited amount of funds and time to devote to hunting, so if they happen to get out once for a 5 day period and are unlucky due an antler restricted harvest that has already had ten previous day of hunting pressure I fail to see how they makes them "Suck" as a hunter. They are hard working, honest, Average Joes trying to get out and involed in the wilderness.

The Areas I know of and hunt happen to be within a reasonable driving distance and also happen to be primarily Mule deer territory. Unfortunately their available time happens to be in late mid late sept, thats just the way it is.

In fact they have seen their fair share of bucks, unfortunately they couldnt make out 4 points on one side and did the appropriate action by trying to get a closer look. Now maybe with their lack of experience they made and error and spooked the animal. Live and learn the hard way.

Your true colors sure shine through by further discouraging new hunters and making smug remarks about them when they arent here to defend themselves. Hope that makes you feel like a bigger man and a better hunter behind your screen.

The early 4 point season is probably the only one that needs to be canned for the benifit of new, inexperienced and youth hunters as well as older fellows with aging eyes and slower reflexes.

It is easy to see why they implemented the youth seasons when they did...cause of one weekend before school and that is a legit reason I think...least it has some logic.

too be honest I think the "Base" hunters do not have much "real time" to invest towards a successfull hunt and tend to be encumbered with long drives and short days without a whole lot of prior knowledge...in essence they cannot hunt well. The pace of life down in the Big smoke takes weeks to shed....most of the coast guys I hunt with don't even road hunt well for they drive much to fast.
They also have been overstimulated to the point they miss things that should be obvious.....it has to be that way or they would have a mental breakdown driving down there. I cannot drive down there!
The foundation of successfull hunting is patience....you cannot be patient when you have no time. Attempting to pack to much of life into to little of time is a recipe for discouragement...one weekend just doesn't cut it!
And of course the maintence of the "Stuff" that must go along with you while hunting IMHO only shortens the hours that they have to hunt.

Perhaps I will raise some hackles...I don't think it is the wildlife managers job to "Crutch up" those who have made contrary choices that hinder them from hunting.
It seems more than possible that the current sept 4 point season in region three is in place because fellows complaining about the lack of bucks to hunt..the very same fellows that did not really have an adequate effort for success anyways and so have now bit off there nose to spite there face.