Goat bow only general open season

[GoatGuy]

Do you believe a bow only goat general open season will increase new hunter recruitment?

[BCrams]

Nope. It will be mostly the guys who already bow hunt and opportunistic rifle hunters who already own a bow that will take advantage of it or rifle hunters buying a crossbow / bow if they live near the said GOS.

It will not bring in new hunters imo.

[Gateholio]

There is NO goat hunting that will bring in new hunters. The concept is ridiculous.

A GOS rifle/bow whatever goat season won't do anything for recruitment. Most new hunters want a deer or a bear, and the idea of crawling up some steep cliff, with the off chance you may get a chance at a goat is good for determined hunters, but nobody is going to say "hey, there is a bow only goat season! I am going to get my HL!!"

[hunter1947]

Not in my books ,in order to create new hunters you have to introduce them into hunting buy taking them out into the field and get them interested.

This old Indian friend of my dad used to take me out hunting when I was only 7 I liked it and that is how I got to where I am today.

On the long may weekend I got a young 14 year old interested into hunting when we were out camping. He is waiting to get into a class to get his core.:cool:

[6616]

Do you believe a bow only goat general open season will increase new hunter recruitment?

No, I agree with Clark, the concept is ridiculous. It may however increase utilization of goat hunting opportunities to a slight and minor degree.

Many of the goat hunts in BC are under-utilized, some dramatically. Residents are not utilizing their allocated share of the goat AAH and if this does not change, a portion of that allocation will eventually be transfered to non-residents. Are we OK with that?

What is the objective of LEH in the first place? Why are specific goat hunts on LEH at all when there are consistently fewer applicants then authorizations? All under-subscribed hunts for any species should revert to GOS for all hunters in my opinion.

[boatdoc]

I have yet to go on a goat hunt that i would say was for beginers. Goat hunting for new hunters, who thought that up? Another idea that sounds good the first time you say it but gets progressively worse every time its repeated.
Give a new hunter a bow, then tell them to climb a mountain, then get within 40 yards of a goat, then make a good shot on steep terrain, oh ya and don't wound it! All this with the enevitable excitment of thier first kill, like i said it gets worse every time you say it.

[boxhitch]

What is the objective of LEH in the first place? Why are specific goat hunts on LEH at all when there are consistently fewer applicants then authorizations? All under-subscribed hunts for any species should revert to GOS for all hunters in my opinion.More to that point, are the harvest targets being met ? I can see keeping a cap on to not overachieve a kill number, but if the effort isn't there, open it up with more permits or GOS, any implement.

[ryanb]

What is the objective of LEH in the first place? Why are specific goat hunts on LEH at all when there are consistently fewer applicants then authorizations? All under-subscribed hunts for any species should revert to GOS for all hunters in my opinion.

I do see the utility of a LEH for goat, or any animal for that matter, even if it is undersubscribed. It prevents the general hunting regs from getting overcomplicated with multiple sub-zones in certain MUs where opening a GOS might create a conservation concern in some small areas of MUs that might have easy access or sensitive populations.

Just my opinion.

[quadrakid]

besides not recruiting new hunters,hell how many seasoned hunters go after goat, the biologists concern about too many nannies taken would be exacerbated by the addition of numbers of bow hunters. you put your life on the line climbing to the heights with a bow and you get close enough to a nannie and are going to pass it up even though its legal?

[6616]

More to that point, are the harvest targets being met ? I can see keeping a cap on to not overachieve a kill number, but if the effort isn't there, open it up with more permits or GOS, any implement.

I can say with certainty that resident hunters in Region 4 are not meeting their target harvests, however non-residents are fully utilizing their target harvest. The actual harvest of goats heavily favours non-residents and is not meeting allocation percentages. Guides are not harvesting too many goats, residents are just not harvesting enough.

Several of the LEH goat hunts in Region 4 are under-subscribed to, thus increasing the number of available authorizations will have no effect.

GOS may be the answer, but the question is why are residents not availing themselves of these opportunities. Are too many resident hunters just getting too old, is it access restrictions, what the heck is it....????

[6616]

I do see the utility of a LEH for goat, or any animal for that matter, even if it is undersubscribed. It prevents the general hunting regs from getting overcomplicated with multiple sub-zones in certain MUs where opening a GOS might create a conservation concern in some small areas of MUs that might have easy access or sensitive populations.

Just my opinion.

You are right Ryan, goats are a sensitive species and have to be managed carefully, and this fact presents some difficult choices for managers.

It may not seem to matter that we residents don't kill our entire target harvest, it just makes it easier on the goat population, after all we don't have to kill every animal we are allowed to, or do we?

The problem as I see it is that if residents do not utilize their allocation it will eventually be transfered to the outfitters, and when that happens the outfitters "will" fully utilize it and those goats will get shot anyway.

If residents do not care that the allocation may over time migrate to the minimum percentage for residents and the mazimum percentage for outfitters then there's no problem, after all residents don't seem to be much interested in goat hunting anymore.

There's no crowding or interactions with other hunters on most goat hunts. Seems to me that a special bow-only goat hunt will not provide a bowhunter anything that he doesn't already have except possibly just perception, and that would include the novice who wishes to attempt goat hunting.

One thing that seems pretty clear in my mind is that a non-hunter is not going to take up hunting just to take advantage of a bow-only goat, bighorn sheep, or grizzly bear season. I don't think new hunters are recruited by bow-seasons anyway, I believe they're primarily recruited by hunts with high success rates, like cow elk and doe deer hunts.

[The Hermit]

I don't have enough info about the potential conservation issues to make a call on the impact of a GOS on goats.

I believe that an archery only goat season would probably not recruit brand new hunters. It might recruit more bowhunters but even that is a stretch.

It would however encourage bowhunters to go after them... and since bowhunters would not be nearly as successful as rifle hunters an archery only season would probably get more "hunters" out there with little risk of damaging the herd! whereas a GOS might create an overkill situation.

Do I believe that archery only hunts

[6616]

Considering the under-utilization of goats , why not, a 10 day archery only GOS from Sept 1st to 9th isn't going to hurt anything. The fact does remain however that if a bow hunter wants to hunt goats, just simply apply for many of the under-subscribed hunts in the East Kootenay and even though you'll be hunting in the rifle season it won't matter because you won't see another hunter.

I still believe GOS for everyone should be considered for some of these hunts.

[Mik]

No, most new hunters that I have spoken to or hunted with want to get out, hunt and bag something. The chances of bagging something are pretty slim for a "new bowhunter".

[hunter1947]

Going up a steep mountain after a goat and trying to get into bow range with a new hunter would be a hard thing to do. Going after a deer with a gun and on a better playing field makes more sense to me :roll:.

[rocksteady]

Hunting goats with a bow would have to be one of the ultimate challenges...I have hunted goats numerous times and I do not remember once that I could have shot one with a bow......

Maybe the goats behave different in the areas you hunt, but in my areas, I was lucky to get within 200 yards, much less 40.

[J_T]

Short answer, no. A Goat bow only season is a lot of work for very little gain.

With an LEH in hand, a bowhunter can go hunt goats without bumping into another hunter.

On the other hand, a GOS goat rifle with an incentive for young rifle hunters might bring about some excitement and participation. Add to what we are building.


Considering the under-utilization of goats , why not, a 10 day archery only GOS from Sept 1st to 9th isn't going to hurt anything. The fact does remain however that if a bow hunter wants to hunt goats, just simply apply for many of the under-subscribed hunts in the East Kootenay and even though you'll be hunting in the rifle season it won't matter because you won't see another hunter.QUOTE]

[QUOTE]I still believe GOS for everyone should be considered for some of these hunts. Agree completely.

I'm not fully aware of the rest of the province. But as 6616 has said, in consideration of the under utilization in Reg 4, we should be looking to open the goat hunt up.

A few carefully selected GOS opportunities would at the very least create an impression there is more opportunity.

[6616]

Hunting goats with a bow would have to be one of the ultimate challenges...I have hunted goats numerous times and I do not remember once that I could have shot one with a bow......

Maybe the goats behave different in the areas you hunt, but in my areas, I was lucky to get within 200 yards, much less 40.

This mirrors my experiences exactly. Similar with sheep.

As a side note: I hunted the Todagan bow zone once for sheep. My partner and myself agreed when the hunt was over that there are many places in northern BC where a bow hunt for sheep would have a better chance of success even though we would be hunting in a GOS area competing with rifle hunters. I've been on many Stone Sheep hunts and I've never once interacted with another hunter outside my own party so it's entirely feasible to hunt Stone's Sheep with a bow, no special season required.

[Elkaholic]

The fact does remain however that if a bow hunter wants to hunt goats, just simply apply for many of the under-subscribed hunts in the East Kootenay and even though you'll be hunting in the rifle season it won't matter because you won't see another hunter.


I think that like many other States and Provinces that the government should start advertising draws that are under subscribed so that people can actually see that this is happening. Ive talked to alot of people who do not think anything is under subscribed. An example would be lets say they are under subscribed on goat in a certain MU after the draws are done. Well post this info on the website and allow people to buy these permits on a first-come first-serve basis. I think this would help with any draw that is in this situation. Put it out there for people to see.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Ron.C]

I agree with JT, As a bowhunter, and a first time goat LEH applicant this year, I say what is the sense of a bow only season? The odds of getting drawn are quite good in alot of the areas I looked at. The opportunity is there, obviously if more people were interested in these hunts, there would be more applicants.

[6616]

I think that like many other States and Provinces that the government should start advertising draws that are under subscribed so that people can actually see that this is happening. Ive talked to alot of people who do not think anything is under subscribed. An example would be lets say they are under subscribed on goat in a certain MU after the draws are done. Well post this info on the website and allow people to buy these permits on a first-come first-serve basis. I think this would help with any draw that is in this situation. Put it out there for people to see.

Just my 2 cents worth.

It's a good idea Rob.