Since you all been debating how many angls can dance on a pin. How bout this one???

[horshur]

How about this one????

2006-2007 hunting and trapping regulations had a subtle change in the cougar regulations…one word really.

Hunters may not hunt a cougar kitten or a cougar in it’s company.

It used to say:

Hunters may not kill a spotted cougar or a cougar in it’s company.

The definition of Hunt-

Includes shooting at, atracting, searching for, chasing, pursueing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed , or captured:
(a) with the intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b) while I possesion of a firearm or other weapon.




Hunting cougar usually invoves the placing of dog on a found track in the snow or having the hound strike it’s own scent from an unseen track…the dog then trails the scent to the jump and if all goes well the cougar will tree.
So when my cur strikes a cougar while freecast on a fir ridge or when buddy turns dogs in on a smallish snow track….there is no way to foreknow with confidence what may be in the tree when you get there….as I walk into the tree and look up in the limbs I may discover that somewhere along the trail I have just broke the law for this cat has spotted kit’s!!!! shit!!!

There is no law forbiding the hunting of small footed cats or females ….only when you get to the tree may you know. In all honesty you don’t really know then either if ma has stashed the kits away well.

What the hell was wrong with the first law!!!!


Have at her..I eagerly await you interpretations.

[Stone Sheep Steve]

I agree. Is there much differrence in size of the track between a young cougar and a lynx?? (Don't cat hunt myself)

SSS

[Gateholio]

You usually have to have some intent. I dont' know much about cat hunting, but I think the law is there to discourage people from finding a kitten track and sending the dogs after it already knowing it wasn't legal to shoot.

[chilcotin hillbilly]

What a load of crap!!!! This will effect all of us who run hounds and by chance could make us break the law. I guess I won't post any Kitten pics in the future.

[BlacktailStalker]

Whoever thought up the revision of that one is a drunk.
There is no way to tell until they're treed unless you see the track (if you're even hunting snow!) in company with another larger track.

Even then who says its not a juvenile or pair of kittens with no mother etc etc ?

Also, if you've free cast your hounds and they strike and scream a track, there's no way to tell until they've treed.

In reallity guys are just going to be saying "Oops (no sarcasm of course)" instead of, "Cool, kittens and mama in the tree" at the end of the day.

[boxhitch]

These days, I could see someone in Victoria office taking offence to the word 'kill', and deciding to change it for no other reason. May be only semantics to those in the office, but with real-world effects ?

[Stone Sheep Steve]

Obviously, they did not realize that "spotted" cougars don't leave "spotted" tracks:roll:.

SSS

[Fisher-Dude]

I agree. Is there much differrence in size of the track between a young cougar and a lynx?? (Don't cat hunt myself)

SSS

Yes. The lynx track is huge because of their built-in showshoes. We usually get a call from a non-cat hunter about the "huge cougar track" found in five feet of snow at a ridiculously high elevation where no self-respecting cougar would be found. Bobbies, on the other hand, are puny, but tend to be spaced a bit differently from a young cougar's tracks. It's a subtle difference that is hard to see except in perfect snow conditions - a tail drag mark is the dead giveaway.

I do agree that the incidental treeing of a cougar kitten shouldn't be considered illegal. Setting the hounds on a big tom track who happens to cross paths with a female and kitten will often lead to a kitten in a tree! :frown:

[Mik]

Once something gets popular, "Victoria" always seems to get involved and changes the laws......OFF TOPIC- SAME IDEA- diesel was always cheaper until everyone started driving 1 tons, now look at the price????????

[Steeleco]

IIRC Mr. Dean had the same dilemma last fall in regard to the definition of the word "Hunt" I'm sure he'll be along soon!!

The literal definition of that word would make us all criminals, once we leave the house hours before sunup, rifle in hand??

[SHAKER]

How about this one????

2006-2007 hunting and trapping regulations had a subtle change in the cougar regulations…one word really.

Hunters may not hunt a cougar kitten or a cougar in it’s company.

It used to say:

Hunters may not kill a spotted cougar or a cougar in it’s company.

The definition of Hunt-

Includes shooting at, atracting, searching for, chasing, pursueing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed , or captured:
(a) with the intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b) while I possesion of a firearm or other weapon.




Hunting cougar usually invoves the placing of dog on a found track in the snow or having the hound strike it’s own scent from an unseen track…the dog then trails the scent to the jump and if all goes well the cougar will tree.
So when my cur strikes a cougar while freecast on a fir ridge or when buddy turns dogs in on a smallish snow track….there is no way to foreknow with confidence what may be in the tree when you get there….as I walk into the tree and look up in the limbs I may discover that somewhere along the trail I have just broke the law for this cat has spotted kit’s!!!! shit!!!

There is no law forbiding the hunting of small footed cats or females ….only when you get to the tree may you know. In all honesty you don’t really know then either if ma has stashed the kits away well.

What the hell was wrong with the first law!!!!


Have at her..I eagerly await you interpretations.


I believe this was done so the GO's had something to bitch about against resident hunters. (or maybe just my bad luck this year with releaseing hounds with 2 cats travelling together. (Note tree'd both cats and neither were spotted but sure heard about it for several months after including at a ministry meeting)

[horshur]

I agree. Is there much differrence in size of the track between a young cougar and a lynx?? (Don't cat hunt myself)

SSS

Lynx don't have the same stride...pretty clear to sort out in deep snow for they stay up on it. In shallow snow if you would walk it a ways it becomes pretty obvious.

[horshur]

I believe this was done so the GO's had something to bitch about against resident hunters. (or maybe just my bad luck this year with releaseing hounds with 2 cats travelling together. (Note tree'd both cats and neither were spotted but sure heard about it for several months after including at a ministry meeting)

He's just sore cause you guys put a hobble on him...just post the harvest stats and you will have everybody on here watching your back. The resident non resident stat from a few years ago:wink:

[SHAKER]

aahhhh........... Your makeing me feel better already.



Region 8 Cougar Harvest 2006/2007 Season



Non Resident kill 29
Resident kill 16





Ok I'll post this just for fun! By the way these numbers vary slightly depending on what day you ask for them. I've seen papers between 29 and 32 for the Non res side?

[horshur]

Here is a little more fuel to the fire...apparently an official response to an american resident:

Your inquiry into the requirements for a non-resident with respect to the pursuit only season for cougars in British Columbia has been forwarded to me for response.
A non-resident is not required to be accompanied by a licensed BC guide to take part in the cougar pursuit only seasons. Non-residents must be guided if they wish to "hunt" big game in BC, and the definition of hunt, or hunting, terminates with the intention to capture an animal, or to be in the possession of a firearm or other weapon. If the non-resident is not in possession of a firearm, and has no intention on capturing the wildlife they are pursuing (tricky with a cougar), their activity is not considered hunting, and as such they do not require the services of a guide.
Be aware that there are other requirements for a non-resident for the pursuit only cougar seasons:
1. You must purchase a non-resident hunting license ($180 CDN).
2. You are not permitted have a firearm or any other weapon (includes a rifle, shotgun, handgun or spring gun and any device that propels a projectile by means of an explosion, compressed gas or spring, or a bow (long, recurve, compound, or cross bow) in your possession.
I hope this answers your questions,

Senior Wildlife Regulations Officer
Fish and Wildlife Branch
Ministry of Environment

I

[Stone Sheep Steve]

aahhhh........... Your makeing me feel better already.



Region 8 Cougar Harvest 2006/2007 Season




Non Resident kill 29

Resident kill 16








Ok I'll post this just for fun! By the way these numbers vary slightly depending on what day you ask for them. I've seen papers between 29 and 32 for the Non res side?

Problem was that the female harvest for residents was way higher that that of the non-residents....can't remember the figures off-hand. Anyone else got them???

SSS

[horshur]

Problem was that the female harvest for residents was way higher that that of the no-residents....can't remember the figures off-hand. Anyone else got them???

SSS

yes that was true. Cause the guide shot all the Toms...betting it looks better now.

[GoatGuy]

How about this one????

2006-2007 hunting and trapping regulations had a subtle change in the cougar regulations…one word really.

Hunters may not hunt a cougar kitten or a cougar in it’s company.

It used to say:

Hunters may not kill a spotted cougar or a cougar in it’s company.

The definition of Hunt-

Includes shooting at, atracting, searching for, chasing, pursueing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of those things, whether or not the wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed , or captured:
(a) with the intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b) while I possesion of a firearm or other weapon.




Hunting cougar usually invoves the placing of dog on a found track in the snow or having the hound strike it’s own scent from an unseen track…the dog then trails the scent to the jump and if all goes well the cougar will tree.
So when my cur strikes a cougar while freecast on a fir ridge or when buddy turns dogs in on a smallish snow track….there is no way to foreknow with confidence what may be in the tree when you get there….as I walk into the tree and look up in the limbs I may discover that somewhere along the trail I have just broke the law for this cat has spotted kit’s!!!! shit!!!

There is no law forbiding the hunting of small footed cats or females ….only when you get to the tree may you know. In all honesty you don’t really know then either if ma has stashed the kits away well.

What the hell was wrong with the first law!!!!


Have at her..I eagerly await you interpretations.

This will have something to do with cites. Something to the effect of the stress put on the animals/breeding/vulnerability and on and on.

Don't shoot the messenger.

[horshur]

This will have something to do with cites. Something to the effect of the stress put on the animals/breeding/vulnerability and on and on.

Don't shoot the messenger.

there not endangered.

[Wolfman]

Sounds like just another sneaky deal to screw hunters around.

Wolfman

[Stone Sheep Steve]

yes that was true. Cause the guide shot all the Toms...betting it looks better now.

I agree that there can be more to the picture than just numbers. Two friends shot females.......one because it was in close proximity to a guy's house who has kids and the other had a broken leg and and was wasting away. Could have let it crawl away but decided to take the high road and burn a tag.

SSS

[KevinB]

I haven't read anything in this thread beyone horshur's first post and I don't know much or anything about cat hunting. It is a good question. Call Carol Foot, the Unit Head of the Wildlife Regulations unit with the Wildlife Branch in Victoria 250 387-9760. Get the answer straight from the source. Like most regulations there are usually good reasons behind it that may not be that apparent to the people the regulation applies to. Or sometimes, not so good reasons!

[SHAKER]

Problem was that the female harvest for residents was way higher that that of the non-residents....can't remember the figures off-hand. Anyone else got them???

SSS
06/07 season 2 females in region 8, The 06 season was a little different though the GO's were on a soft quota (don't ask me what that is) and they were allocated 50% of the anuall allowable harvest (not sure how that works out to be resident priority but anyways) and were told not to harvest females so zero GO harvest and they looked like heros to the ministry. But after much whineing and complaining they raised the AAH last year by tacking on a 30% female harvest (which they say is sustainable).


Region 8 Cougar Kills

2007/08

April 16, 2008




Resident Hunters

Non Resident Hunters

Males killed

Females killed

Males killed

Females killed

16

11

27

3

[SHAKER]

Sorry the cut and paste didn't work good.

Resident male 16 female 11
Non res male 27 female 3

57 total last year which is well under the AAH of 72. And the GO's say theirs a cat behind every tree.