shared hunt

[sealevel]

my friend and i were discusing this couple weeks ago. If we got a shared hunt do we both have to buy tags?? I said screw that why buy two tags for one animal one guy can hunt deer . You have to be within calling distance anyway. He figgered if we were both hunting together on a shared hunt we both had to have a tag and could be charged if we didn`t.

[hunter1947]

my friend and i were discusing this couple weeks ago. If we got a shared hunt do we both have to buy tags?? I said screw that why buy two tags for one animal one guy can hunt deer . You have to be within calling distance anyway. He figgered if we were both hunting together on a shared hunt we both had to have a tag and could be charged if we didn`t.
No you don't ,if you two get picked in a shared hunt ether one is alowed to shoot the animal ,but only the person that has the valid tag and you reach your quot of one with that of two people putting in for the shared hunt..

[boxhitch]

one is alowed to shoot the animal ,but only the person that has the valid tag
What he said

[Fisher-Dude]

You're all WRONG. From the LEH synopsis:


Those wishing to apply for Limited Entry Shared
Hunts may apply individually, (you don’t have to be
part of a Shared Hunt) or as shared groups of two,
three, or four (Shared Hunt). If a group is drawn, a
group of two will be allowed to take one Moose
only, and a group of three or four will be allowed to
take two Moose only. All members of the group
must have a valid Moose species licence, and any
group member may take a Moose until the group
limit has been reached. No group member may take
more than one Moose, and must cease hunting in
the Limited Entry Shared Hunt when he or she has
harvested a Moose. Members of a group
participating in a Limited Entry Shared Hunt must be
able to communicate with one another in order to
avoid exceeding the group’s limit.There are no
restrictions on methods of communication.

Buck up and spend your money cheapskates, or yer gonna get a TICKET! :p

[Leaseman]

I must be wrong then.... I was to understand that if you put in for a shared draw, was drawn and went hunting that you and your partner both needed to have a valid tag.... told to me by a CO last year...

[boxhitch]

Sure, if both want the opp to shoot the critter.
Any winner of the permit can hunt on their own, solo, if they choose to, with a tag in hand.
Only the tag holder can legally shoot.

[Fisher-Dude]

Sure, if both want the opp to shoot the critter.
Any winner of the permit can hunt on their own, solo, if they choose to, with a tag in hand.
Only the tag holder can legally shoot.

Both must have a species license. See above. There's no question.

[Leaseman]

Thought so....Thanks FD!

[jrjonesy]

Also, I believe the members of a shared hunt, if all hunting, must be able to contact each other. This is to prevent 2 hunters hunting separately on one draw from each shooting a moose when only one between the two is allowed.

[hunter1947]

I was on an LEH moose hunt last year and I did not have a moose tag. I was not the part of the shared hunt from two the other person could not go that was part of the shared hunt of two.. My buddy had the tag and I was with him. If I had bought a moose tag in that region and it was open then I would also be able to shoot a moose in that region as well.

[BiG Boar]

what if one of the persons whos name is on the shared hunt is staying at home 1000 miles away, do they have to buy a tag to hunt this moose they're not hunting? According to the black and white they would as noted in the above quote from the regulations above.

[boxhitch]

Both must have a species license. See above. There's no question.Reason says, if there is one hunter only one tag is needed.

[kgs]

Like fisher-dude said anyone hunting in a shared hunt requires a hunting license.
Think about it lets say you get a cow draw. You and your buddy come across a cow and calf one of you shoots the cow and your limited entry is over however the other buddy can shoot the calf because he can shoot what is in open season. Hence thats why the limited entry for cow is during calf season. Also if you have a bull draw one can shoot any bull and the other can shoot what is in open season say a two point bull. With your hunting license you can shoot whatever is in open season and only one valid license is required for your limit entry. (more than a huntin' license is required - they must carry species licenses too.)

[Fisher-Dude]

Reason says, if there is one hunter only one tag is needed.

If the two are hunting together, as Sealevel proposed in the original post, then both need tags, no doubt about it. One can't say they are tagging along just to hunt deer while the other is the moose hunter - that's a no go.

EDIT - kgs, more than a huntin' license is required - they must carry species licenses too.

[BCrams]

Another question:

2 guys from Victoria put in for shared hunt for moose in PG. They are successful and are allowed to shoot 1 bull moose between them.

Guy number one gets sick or some other unknown comes up and prevents him from hunting that fall.

Guy number two buys his tags and goes up alone and shoots a moose.

Given the circumstances, does guy number one still need to buy a licence and tag even though he will not be hunting all season?

Or another

2 guys from Vancouver. Guy 1 has every intention to go north to hunt moose if he gets drawn. He asks a friend (also in Vancouver) who has no intention of hunting moose or not even hunting at all. Guy 2 puts in for a group hunt for moose with guy 1 to increase his odds of getting the tag. Or lets say his wife has a hunter number but will not hunt at all that fall.

[bighornbob]

If the two guys are together then both must have tags. If one guys chooses not too hunt (i.e. not in the area) or breaks a leg a month before the season and knows he is not going, he does not have to buy the tag.

BHB

[boxhitch]

Nobody HAS to have a tag for ANYTHING, until they are going to shoot that species.
Side-by-side in the bush, they are just two guys side-by-side in the bush. The guy who shoots the moose is the moose hunter, and better have a tag.

[Jimsue]

If there is 2 or 3 in a group and one person decides not to go on the hunt at all, do they still need to buy a tag even if they are sitting at home?

[Fisher-Dude]

Nobody HAS to have a tag for ANYTHING, until they are going to shoot that species.
Side-by-side in the bush, they are just two guys side-by-side in the bush. The guy who shoots the moose is the moose hunter, and better have a tag.

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

The two guys on a shared hunt must both have a moose tag if they are going on the moose hunt. The guy who stays home with the broken leg doesn't need a moose tag. From the CO Supervisor I just got off the phone with. :wink:

[BCrams]

How about the guys wife who puts in for a shared moose hunt with her husband with no intention of going hunting. Same as the broken leg fellow?

[hunter1947]

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

The two guys on a shared hunt must both have a moose tag if they are going on the moose hunt. The guy who stays home with the broken leg doesn't need a moose tag. From the CO Supervisor I just got off the phone with. :wink:



FD I don't understand with what the Co just told you :?. Say if another person went on this shared hunt that was not part of the shared. The other one of two could not make it because of some sort of problem. The other person that went with the holder of the shared moose hunt that did not have the tag for the shared hunt. Say this person was not going to shoot a moose when he was following this person through the bush on this hunting trip. I would say that he would not need a tag for that moose hunt. Say the person that had the moose shared tag and he shot it and tagged it and the a CO stoped the two of you what would he look at ,he would look at who had shot the moose and canceled the tag that was cut out for that animal ,not the person tagging along.

[boxhitch]

The two guys on a shared hunt must both have a moose tag if they are going on the moose hunt.
:rolleyes:Two guys in the bush, one with a moose tag claims to be on a LEH moose hunt, the other with a deer tag claims to be on a deer hunt.
How many moose tags are needed ?

[Tuffcity]

Say if another person went on this shared hunt that was not part of the shared

Then that person would not have a valid LEH authorization in his wallet so how can he be considered to be part of the "LEH shared hunt"? He can not participate in that "shared hunt", but could hunt an open season.

If people are not in camp or on the hunting trip but are part of the "LEH group" they do not need a tag to sit at home. Broken leg, fight with spouse, sick child, whatever the reason if you ain't goin' you don't need a tag.

[sealevel]

I think so pictures are needed:lol:

[Fisher-Dude]

How about the guys wife who puts in for a shared moose hunt with her husband with no intention of going hunting. Same as the broken leg fellow?

Yep. She can clean the house and get her hair done for his return. :razz:

[Fisher-Dude]

FD I don't understand with what the Co just told you :?. Say if another person went on this shared hunt that was not part of the shared. The other one of two could not make it because of some sort of problem. The other person that went with the holder of the shared moose hunt that did not have the tag for the shared hunt. Say this person was not going to shoot a moose when he was following this person through the bush on this hunting trip. I would say that he would not need a tag for that moose hunt. Say the person that had the moose shared tag and he shot it and tagged it and the a CO stoped the two of you what would he look at ,he would look at who had shot the moose and canceled the tag that was cut out for that animal ,not the person tagging along.

If the guy is not part of the LEH shared group, he doesn't need a moose tag - he can be a deer hunter only. If he is in the LEH shared group that got the draw, he needs to have a tag to go on the hunt.

[Fisher-Dude]

:rolleyes:Two guys in the bush, one with a moose tag claims to be on a LEH moose hunt, the other with a deer tag claims to be on a deer hunt.
How many moose tags are needed ?

If the guy who is claiming to be on a deer hunt is hunting with the LEH moose guy, and the deer guy is also listed on that LEH moose shared authorization, said deer guy needs a moose tag if they are hunting the LEH moose area. If deer guy's name isn't on the LEH moose authorization, he can be a deer only hunter without a moose tag.

[hunter1947]

FD you might be right on this issue. I have been trying to get a hold of the wildlife management and find out about this myself but had no success yesterday ,I will get a hold of them on Monday and find out for sure just to settle it for myself ,I still disagree with two moose tags needed if the other does not plan to shoot the moose on this shared trip from the two that got picked.

[Fisher-Dude]

FD you might be right on this issue. I have been trying to get a hold of the wildlife management and find out about this myself but had no success yesterday ,I will get a hold of them on Monday and find out for sure just to settle it for myself ,I still disagree with two moose tags needed if the other does not plan to shoot the moose on this shared trip from the two that got picked.

Whether you agree with it in principle or not, it's the law. Read the "shared hunt" section of the LEH regs again. It's to curb the abuse of the LEH hunter without a species license from shooting the moose. The $25 for a moose tag is the CHEAPEST part of a moose trip, IMO!

[416]

FD you might be right on this issue. I have been trying to get a hold of the wildlife management and find out about this myself but had no success yesterday ,I will get a hold of them on Monday and find out for sure just to settle it for myself ,I still disagree with two moose tags needed if the other does not plan to shoot the moose on this shared trip from the two that got picked.

l agree with you Hunter 1947, and l would like to know how giving what FD's C/O interpretation is, the following: I have shared hunt but shoot my moose in a GOS before the planned LEH hunt........l now have no tag, and according to what l have read on this thread, l am not eligible to go on the planned LEH hunt for other speices:confused:. Or if l am on a 3 person shared hunt and one moose is dropped.......is that hunter now breaking the law if the other two are still actively hunting the remaining moose and he is still part of the group?
If your hunting an LEH moose then obviously you would need a tag, but l have a hard time seeing how you can be charged unless it can be proven you are actively hunting the elusive LEH moose......

[hunter1947]

I have looked at the LEH regs just now and read them to see if it says you all need a tag. It does say on page 4 under LEH shared hunts that all that do apply for a shared hunt and do get picked for it do need a tag.


The one line said that any of the 4 that go on a moose shared can shoot the two moose that are allowed on this shared hunt.

What I see why they say that all need a moose tag is because any of the 4 hunters can shoot the two moose that are alowed in this shared hunt of 4.

What I see is why they say all need a moose tag is that any one of the 4 can shoot the moose ,but look at it this way what say if your wife was picked on this shared hunt out of the 4 and she just puts in to help get a better chance on your party getting picked and she did not want to buy a moose tag and shoot a moose but wanted to go on this trip.

Then I think that she would not have to buy a moose tag if she planed on not wanting to shoot the moose ,I have got hold of Dan Dwyer on his email ,he has returned my reply on wanting to talk to him about this moose tag LEH thing.

I will be talking to him on Tue ,can't talk to him on Monday ,he has a meeting in nanaimo on Monday. I will see what he says to me and let all know what he said on Tue.

[Fisher-Dude]

What I see is why they say all need a moose tag is that any one of the 4 can shoot the moose ,but look at it this way what say if your wife was picked on this shared hunt out of the 4 and she just puts in to help get a better chance on your party getting picked and she did not want to buy a moose tag and shoot a moose but wanted to go on this trip.

Then I think that she would not have to buy a moose tag if she planed on not wanting to shoot the moose ,I have got hold of Dan Dwyer on his email ,he has returned my reply on wanting to talk to him about this moose tag LEH thing.

I will be talking to him on Tue ,can't talk to him on Monday ,he has a meeting in nanaimo on Monday. I will see what he says to me and let all know what he said on Tue.

If she goes on the trip she needs a tag. Period. The idea of the shared hunt is to get more people out hunting, not for people to use non-hunters' hunter numbers to better their own chances of getting drawn. They want more people out there actually hunting. Buying a tag is part of going hunting. Your plans to use your wife's number to better your own chances of success does not further the goals of hunter recruitment, and shared hunts were designed to put more moose hunters in the bush.

[Fisher-Dude]

l agree with you Hunter 1947, and l would like to know how giving what FD's C/O interpretation is, the following: I have shared hunt but shoot my moose in a GOS before the planned LEH hunt........l now have no tag, and according to what l have read on this thread, l am not eligible to go on the planned LEH hunt for other speices:confused:. Or if l am on a 3 person shared hunt and one moose is dropped.......is that hunter now breaking the law if the other two are still actively hunting the remaining moose and he is still part of the group?
If your hunting an LEH moose then obviously you would need a tag, but l have a hard time seeing how you can be charged unless it can be proven you are actively hunting the elusive LEH moose......

If you drop a moose in GOS you can still go to the LEH area and hunt deer. You still have a tag, it's just punched now. You can't shoot another moose or pursue another moose.

The 3rd hunter who drops the first moose can still hunt deer. He complied by buying a moose tag. He can't drop another moose or pursue moose.

As long as you have a moose tag, cancelled or not, you can hunt other species in the area while on the LEH hunt.

[browningboy]

Shake your head! When is the government going to let you get away without them reaching in your pocket, as previous posts mentioned, everyone must pay the tax man!:evil:

[416]

Originally Posted by Fisher-Dude http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=290506#post290506)
All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

I guess my question would be "define" valid......a tag certainly isn't "valid" if its been punched, it may be current but that would be about it. This sounds like one C/O's interpretation of the regs, but it does lend itself to debate as there are grey areas l doubt very much would hold up in court. Its obvious what the intention of the regulation is but l have my reservations that unless your caught standing over a fresh kill without the appropriate tags that they could make a charge stick. Like you say, we could be hunting anything

[Caveman]

l agree with you Hunter 1947, and l would like to know how giving what FD's C/O interpretation is, the following: I have shared hunt but shoot my moose in a GOS before the planned LEH hunt........l now have no tag, and according to what l have read on this thread, l am not eligible to go on the planned LEH hunt for other speices:confused:. Or if l am on a 3 person shared hunt and one moose is dropped.......is that hunter now breaking the law if the other two are still actively hunting the remaining moose and he is still part of the group?
If your hunting an LEH moose then obviously you would need a tag, but l have a hard time seeing how you can be charged unless it can be proven you are actively hunting the elusive LEH moose......

If you shot your moose during a GOS you could still take in the shared hunt with a tag for a species with a GOS at the same time as the shared hunt but would not be eligible to take a moose on the shared hunt, that would be up to the remaining members of the group. Answer to part two as read is, No, he just can't be the guy to shoot the second moose.

[boxhitch]

Only the person actually shooting the animal has to have the tag, if you really want to get to splitting hairs. No tags for any species are needed until that point of killing.
Nobody needs to have any tag until that time, regardless whether that person is at home or in the co-pilots seat.
If I get a GBear LEH, no one forces me to by a GBear tag, even if I am BBear hunting.
Party hunting or shared hunting has been going on for generations, here and in other provinces. It won't cease because someone on the WWW says it has to. BC is trying to legitimaize it by selling everyone tags, without valid reason.

[steel_ram]

So . . . next years, since I've already applied for individual licences, I should use my wife and kid's hunter numbers, plus/or solicit friends who have numbers but are inactive hunters and apply with them in shared hunts to increase my odds, and of course not by a tag until I need to.

[Benthos]

This makes more sense than anything else i've read on this post. if anyone actually thinks they are going to get fined for sitting at home without a moose tag, just because they are part of a shared hunt, shake your head.





Only the person actually shooting the animal has to have the tag, if you really want to get to splitting hairs. No tags for any species are needed until that point of killing.
Nobody needs to have any tag until that time, regardless whether that person is at home or in the co-pilots seat.
If I get a GBear LEH, no one forces me to by a GBear tag, even if I am BBear hunting.
Party hunting or shared hunting has been going on for generations, here and in other provinces. It won't cease because someone on the WWW says it has to. BC is trying to legitimaize it by selling everyone tags, without valid reason.

[troutseeker]

More importantly, two guys go for a shared moose hunt in Williams Lake area. Both have tags, all is good. Now the first fellow leaves Prince Rupert at 5AM and travels at 100km/hr. The second fellow leaves Vancouver at 7am an travels at 95km/hr.

At what time will they be drinking beer together?

[boxhitch]

If , by 'together' you just mean at the same time, then that could be 7am when the second guy starts. Nothing like a good early start.

[horshur]

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

The two guys on a shared hunt must both have a moose tag if they are going on the moose hunt. The guy who stays home with the broken leg doesn't need a moose tag. From the CO Supervisor I just got off the phone with. :wink:

Fisher..does he need a note from the doctor too???

[Gateholio]

Just my opinion, but i think if you get drawn for a shared hunt, and you and your buddy go out looking for moose, you should both have a tag.

If one of you stays home, then don't buy a tag.

[Gateholio]

If , by 'together' you just mean at the same time, then that could be 7am when the second guy starts. Nothing like a good early start.


And if they chat on thier cellphones, they can almost be together, sharing a long distance campfire:cool:

[hunter1947]

Just my opinion, but i think if you get drawn for a shared hunt, and you and your buddy go out looking for moose, you should both have a tag.

If one of you stays home, then don't buy a tag. I couldn't agree with you more then what you just said GH. You hit the nail in all the way and hit it dead center at that. Money used for the tag will go into wildlife funds and that is what counts.

[MRBucks]

I have heard from more than one source that the organised anti's have been buying LEH tags and entering the draws to limit the harvesting of animals. PMO,:twisted: but I suppose if they have a hunter number card they can legitimately do it.

I wonder if they put in for shared hunts, or group hunts??

[Mik]

You have a $50,000 truck all geared up, brand new rifle with expensive scope, Binocs, spotting scope, range finder, trailer, quad, all that $$$$$$ invested, time off from work, and most important, your son/ daughter and your'e willing to risk it all ...for what? In the end, its only a $25 tag, if you can't afford that, then maybe you shouldn't hunt :biggrin:

[Gateholio]

Hunters complain about the cost of ammo "I can't believe they want $50 for a box of bullets!"

The price of fuel (Well everyone does. But if you are going to drive, it's going to cost you some gas, so buck up or don't go)

And they complain about the cost of tags, which is pretty small cost.

They never complain abotu cost of truck, ATV, or beer.8-)

[Fisher-Dude]

Only the person actually shooting the animal has to have the tag, if you really want to get to splitting hairs. No tags for any species are needed until that point of killing.
Nobody needs to have any tag until that time, regardless whether that person is at home or in the co-pilots seat.


Not so. You need a tag to hunt, regardless of the kill. From the regs:

"Species licences are required for the hunting of the following animals and are required in addition to the basic hunting licences"

Top of page 10 under "species licence fees". We all know the definition of hunt includes searching for, pursuing, stalking, lying in wait, etc.

[BiG Boar]

Hunters complain about the cost of ammo "I can't believe they want $50 for a box of bullets!"

The price of fuel (Well everyone does. But if you are going to drive, it's going to cost you some gas, so buck up or don't go)

And they complain about the cost of tags, which is pretty small cost.

They never complain abotu cost of truck, ATV, or beer.8-)

I want to be the first to complain about the cost of beer!!!! It is way too much!!! We can drive 30 minutes across the border and drink for half the price!!!!

Second question.

Lets say you and your shared group is at camp, you group has 2 tags, because 4 people were in the group. However only you and one other person made it this year. You shoot a moose. You cancel your species licence and whatnot. Now, are you allowed to hunt for GOS deer? Or will they think you are still looking for another moose, even though your tag is cancelled?

[Fisher-Dude]

Yes you can hunt deer after you shoot your moose.

[Dannybuoy]

I want to be the first to complain about the cost of beer!!!! It is way too much!!! We can drive 30 minutes across the border and drink for half the price!!!!

Second question.

Lets say you and your shared group is at camp, you group has 2 tags, because 4 people were in the group. However only you and one other person made it this year. You shoot a moose. You cancel your species licence and whatnot. Now, are you allowed to hunt for GOS deer? Or will they think you are still looking for another moose, even though your tag is cancelled?
?? Of course you can still hunt for deer , provided you have a tag , they are open etc . Your partner is free to shoot a moose and/or deer as well if he has a deer tag .

[hunter1947]

I want to be the first to complain about the cost of beer!!!! It is way too much!!! We can drive 30 minutes across the border and drink for half the price!!!!

Second question.

Lets say you and your shared group is at camp, you group has 2 tags, because 4 people were in the group. However only you and one other person made it this year. You shoot a moose. You cancel your species licence and whatnot. Now, are you allowed to hunt for GOS deer? Or will they think you are still looking for another moose, even though your tag is cancelled?
As long as you have a tag for that animal and the region is open for it.

[hunter1947]

I just spoke to the field supervisor Co up my way .

I ask him about if a person that put in for a group hunt and did not want to buy a moose tag if the party got picked ,but still go on this trip and not to be in the field hunting and wanted to stay at camp.

The field supervisor said it was a good question on this issue ,he did not want to commit himself so he said he would check into it and get back to me on it ,will post what he said when he gets back to me latter today.

[Fisher-Dude]

I just spoke to the field supervisor Co up my way .

I ask him about if a person that put in for a group hunt and did not want to buy a moose tag if the party got picked ,but still go on this trip and not to be in the field hunting and wanted to stay at camp.

The field supervisor said it was a good question on this issue ,he did not want to commit himself so he said he would check into it and get back to me on it ,will post what he said when he gets back to me latter today.

Obviously he hasn't read the regs which say in black and white that the people named on the shared hunt LEH must carry a moose tag if they go on the moose hunt. Why is this even a question for you when the regs say this:

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone can misinterpret this regulation. :???:

[BiG Boar]

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone can misinterpret this regulation. :???:

All members of the group would include members staying at home. All members at the hunting camp would be different. All members pursuing animals with a gun would be different. Obviously its clear.

[Dannybuoy]

All members of the group would include members staying at home. All members at the hunting camp would be different. All members pursuing animals with a gun would be different. Obviously its clear.
It is to me .... They all have the words "all members"

[hunter1947]

Obviously he hasn't read the regs which say in black and white that the people named on the shared hunt LEH must carry a moose tag if they go on the moose hunt. Why is this even a question for you when the regs say this:

All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence

For the life of me, I can't see how anyone can misinterpret this regulation. :???:
FD it is a gray area that's why I want to find out for myself ,it says all members that hunt for a moose must have a tag. But if one should stay in camp and not hunt out on the field well thats different I would think.

Reason being is that there not going out into the field to hunt there staying in camp and are not going to hunt ,they just used there name in a group hunt to better there chances for the other three hunters.

In the LEH synopsis on page 4 it says all must have a moose tag but these might mean if all 4 were out and hunting in the field ,thats what the gray area is all about if one of the party does not want to be out hunting and would rather stay in the camp and tend to it ,like your wife or an old fart like me. And yes FD you are wrong ,I have read the LEH regs like I do every year ,LOL.:lol:

[steel_ram]

they just used there name in a group hunt to better there chances for the other three hunters.

Isn't that kind of cheating as would be using non-hunting wife's, children and friends hunter numbers to increase, perhaps only one persons odds? It is a loop-hole which would be impossible to enforce if it was illegal.

Perhaps everyone who win's a tag, regardless of shared, group or individual hunts, should commit to buying a tag. Perhaps that could be a tool to help prevent these kind of entries, and tighten things up for those that are serious.

[hunter1947]

Isn't that kind of cheating as would be using non-hunting wife's, children and friends hunter numbers to increase, perhaps only one persons odds? It is a loop-hole which would be impossible to enforce if it was illegal.

Perhaps everyone who win's a tag, regardless of shared, group or individual hunts, should commit to buying a tag. Perhaps that could be a tool to help prevent these kind of entries, and tighten things up for those that are serious.
SR I would never do this shortcut for myself on not buying a moose tag ,my wife does not hunt and never will ,I just want to know if the regs really mean what they say ,even the CO was confused with what I asked him ,I just want to know for myself ,he has not got back to me as I speak :lol:.

[Ironball]

FD it is a gray area that's why I want to find out for myself ,it says all members that hunt for a moose must have a tag. But if one should stay in camp and not hunt out on the field well thats different I would think.

Reason being is that there not going out into the field to hunt there staying in camp and are not going to hunt ,they just used there name in a group hunt to better there chances for the other three hunters.

In the LEH synopsis on page 4 it says all must have a moose tag but these might mean if all 4 were out and hunting in the field ,thats what the gray area is all about if one of the party does not want to be out hunting and would rather stay in the camp and tend to it ,like your wife or an old fart like me. And yes FD you are wrong ,I have read the LEH regs like I do every year ,LOL.:lol:

This is true.We have a 76 year old man who every year comes with us moose hunting in PG and he does not buy a tag but we do use his hunters # for a LEH shared hunt{he's our camp cook and enjoys staying in camp}.The CO's came into our camp in 07 and said the same thing.As long you are not active hunter in the group,it is no different then using a person hunters # and then staying at home.This is what the CO's said and no fines were given to any members of our group.At the end of the day is it really worth it for 25.00 {approx} because what 1 or 2 co's say, could very well differnt from another co's interpetation.

Cheers ,Kevin

[Fisher-Dude]

The CO Supervisor here is extremely sharp. He told me if you go on the hunt, you need a tag.

IMO, I don't agree with people using non-hunters' numbers to increase their chances - they are cheating the intent of the program which is focussed on getting retention and recruitment numbers up. Think about it - we are all aware of what dwindling hunter numbers are going to do to the future of our sport. Short term gain for YOU will result in long term pain for future hunters (if there are any).

Cut out the BS, apply ONLY if you are going to go moose hunting, and spend the $25 you cheapskate SOBs!!

[boxhitch]

Cut out the BS, apply ONLY if you are going to go moose hunting,
Like that will ever happen. Moose, Bison, GBear....lots of permits go unused.


spend the $25 you cheapskate SOBs!!

certainly not just because you say so.


intent of the program which is focussed on getting retention and recruitment numbers up.
Shared hunts were talked about before recruitment was thought of. The idea was to increase opportunity without increasing permits. The party hunters were already out there.

[Fisher-Dude]

Shared hunts were talked about before recruitment was thought of. The idea was to increase opportunity without increasing permits. The party hunters were already out there.

One of the ways LEH killed off hunter numbers was by breaking up traditional hunting parties when only one or two of the four got drawn. Shared hunts help keep those parties together. That's the retention aspect. Keeping those old moose hunters in the bush also helps when they take their kids or grandkids out with them. It's proven that most new hunters are mentored by dad, grandpa, or uncle. We need those old boys to show the kids the ropes. That's the recruitment part. Opportunity = R&R. :wink:

[hunter1947]

FD it is a gray area that's why I want to find out for myself ,it says all members that hunt for a moose must have a tag. But if one should stay in camp and not hunt out on the field well thats different I would think.

Reason being is that there not going out into the field to hunt there staying in camp and are not going to hunt ,they just used there name in a group hunt to better there chances for the other three hunters.

In the LEH synopsis on page 4 it says all must have a moose tag but these might mean if all 4 were out and hunting in the field ,thats what the gray area is all about if one of the party does not want to be out hunting and would rather stay in the camp and tend to it ,like your wife or an old fart like me. And yes FD you are wrong ,I have read the LEH regs like I do every year ,LOL.:lol:

This is true.We have a 76 year old man who every year comes with us moose hunting in PG and he does not buy a tag but we do use his hunters # for a LEH shared hunt{he's our camp cook and enjoys staying in camp}.The CO's came into our camp in 07 and said the same thing.As long you are not active hunter in the group,it is no different then using a person hunters # and then staying at home.This is what the CO's said and no fines were given to any members of our group.At the end of the day is it really worth it for 25.00 {approx} because what 1 or 2 co's say, could very well differnt from another co's interpetation.

Cheers ,Kevin Kevin this Co is going to find out about this gray area from the Victoria office in the hunting regulation section. All I want to know is if you don't need a tag if you are not going to hunt in the field. I want to know if they implemented it properly in the LEH synopsis as say all hunters must have a tag of four that are involved in the hunt ,or two :wink:.

[hunter1947]

Well everyone out there ,Don Dwyer the field supervisor for the north Vancover island just got back to me on this LEH shared question.

He said that if a person wishes not to hunt for a shared hunt that got picked for moose you do not need a moose tag if you don't shoot the moose.

He said that if one gets picked out of the four on a shared hunt you all get picked.

As long as this person that wishes not to buy a tag does not shoot a moose.

Don just called me 15min ago and told me this.

I just wanted to find out for myself to put my mind at ease :roll:.

[winbuckhunter]

Read The F**king Regulations It Clearly States Everything You Are Asking...

[Gateholio]

Well everyone out there ,Don Dwyer the field supervisor for the north Vancover island just got back to me on this LEH shared question.

He said that if a person wishes not to hunt for a shared hunt that got picked for moose you do not need a moose tag if you don't shoot the moose.

He said that if one gets picked out of the four on a shared hunt you all get picked.

As long as this person that wishes not to buy a tag does not shoot a moose.

Don just called me 15min ago and told me this.

I just wanted to find out for myself to put my mind at ease :roll:.

So, if 4 of you get picked, and only one in camp has a tag, it is okay, as long as only the tag holder shoots a moose?

[Fisher-Dude]

So, if 4 of you get picked, and only one in camp has a tag, it is okay, as long as only the tag holder shoots a moose?

No. All members of the shared hunt must have a moose tag to be on the moose hunt. It's illegal not to. Obviously the Island doesn't have much exposure to shared moose hunts in the CO Service compared to the CO Supervisor here in the Okanagan who deals with them on a regular basis.:| Buddy on the Island who knows squat about moose hunts might tell you it's okay to hunt moose without a tag, but you'll get charged and fined if you try that where the MOOSE LIVE. :wink:

That's okay H47, take your wife hunting with you when she has her name on the LEH authorization, and don't buy her a moose tag, as the money from the fine that she gets that goes to the HCTF will be more than the portion of the (unbought) moose tag. The HCTF can always use more money for wildlife projects.

[boxhitch]

So, if 4 of you get picked, and only one in camp has a tag, it is okay, as long as only the tag holder shoots a moose?Of course. One animal one tag.
It boils down to the ident of a moose hunter. The only one who is unarguably the moose hunter, is the one that pulls the trigger on a moose. Even someone sitting on the same quad cannot be labelled a moose hunter if they choose to claim otherwise. They can be anything else, until they label themselves and state they are moose hunting or they prove it by pulling the trigger on a moose.

But, if there are witnesses that say otherwise, or if the COs have witnessed the person actually hunting that subsequently led to the kill of a moose, they may deem that person was in fact hunting for rmoose. Proof would have to exist to have it stick.

[Fisher-Dude]

Of course. One animal one tag.
It boils down to the ident of a moose hunter. The only one who is unarguably the moose hunter, is the one that pulls the trigger on a moose. Even someone sitting on the same quad cannot be labelled a moose hunter if they choose to claim otherwise. They can be anything else, until they label themselves and state they are moose hunting or they prove it by pulling the trigger on a moose.

And that birch bark funnel around his neck? Or that bottle of Hyper Hot Cow Moose Urine in his pocket?

[boxhitch]

The one chink in the armor may be the proof of 'Intent'.....
If the intent to do something is enough to label a hunter, the proof of intent to moose hunt is in filing the original application, and listing ones name as one of the group. That 'intent' and the fact of being present in the area covered by the LEH permit could be enough to deem that person is indeed a moose hunter and had better have a tag.
.......IF intent is enough.......

[horshur]

mom dad and son draw a shared hunt...only need one moose so buy one tag...if the kid comes along does he really need a tag? No. Just as long as dad shoots the moose.

It were not our 'Big Idea' this shared hunt deal...people tell yah you can increase your odds so what the hell?.

Folks don't really want to be gamblers they want to be hunting moose.

[steel_ram]

Just like any new game, it's fun and fare until some 'smart guy' figures out how to cheat, then even it get ruined for everyone.

[Gateholio]

Of course. One animal one tag.
It boils down to the ident of a moose hunter. The only one who is unarguably the moose hunter, is the one that pulls the trigger on a moose. Even someone sitting on the same quad cannot be labelled a moose hunter if they choose to claim otherwise. They can be anything else, until they label themselves and state they are moose hunting or they prove it by pulling the trigger on a moose.

But, if there are witnesses that say otherwise, or if the COs have witnessed the person actually hunting that subsequently led to the kill of a moose, they may deem that person was in fact hunting for rmoose. Proof would have to exist to have it stick.

Well, I have to admit..If I was a CO, and I came across 4 guys with rifles, a Shared LEH and one moose tag, I'd be asking 3 of them where thier tags are...

If there was only one rifle in the bunch, I guess you could pull it off.

[hunter1947]

Well, I have to admit..If I was a CO, and I came across 4 guys with rifles, a Shared LEH and one moose tag, I'd be asking 3 of them where thier tags are...

If there was only one rifle in the bunch, I guess you could pull it off.

Say I was hunting with a person with a deer tag for whitetail ,I did not buy a tag for this whitetail ,I had my gun with me a CO stops us ,what can this CO do to me ,nothing as long as I don't shoot the whitetail deer I am not breaking any law its the same thing with not buying a moose tag for a shared hunt as long as a person does not shoot the animal.

I can go out into the bush any day with my firearm and not buy a license or a tag as long as I have my pal with me the CO can't do squat to me.

Anyone that hunts and kills an animal then has to have a tag and license to hunt an animal one animal one tag.

A CO can not do squat to you if he came across 4 of you in the bush and there was only one moose tag in your party of 4 for this shared hunt ,as long as the other 3 don't shoot the moose , there is only one moose tag ,so the others can not shoot a moose ,only the holder of the moose tag can.

[hunter1947]

Just like any new game, it's fun and fare until some 'smart guy' figures out how to cheat, then even it get ruined for everyone.
If your referring to me as one I'm not trying to cheat or ruin it for any one ,I just want to no what the law is and what I can do and what I can't do and now I know what I can do if I wanted to. Like I said back on this thread that if I was hunting on a shared moose hunt and I was part of the shared I certainly would buy a moose tag ,I would be stupid not to ;-).

[hunter1947]

mom dad and son draw a shared hunt...only need one moose so buy one tag...if the kid comes along does he really need a tag? No. Just as long as dad shoots the moose.

It were not our 'Big Idea' this shared hunt deal...people tell yah you can increase your odds so what the hell?.

Folks don't really want to be gamblers they want to be hunting moose.
Yes you are right with what you stated horshur ,one tag one animal.

If you really want to ruin it for others I can tell you what all can do to increase there odds in a shared hunt ,but I won't do it ,its not fair for others that want to get picked for LEH shared..http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[hunter1947]

The one chink in the armor may be the proof of 'Intent'.....
If the intent to do something is enough to label a hunter, the proof of intent to moose hunt is in filing the original application, and listing ones name as one of the group. That 'intent' and the fact of being present in the area covered by the LEH permit could be enough to deem that person is indeed a moose hunter and had better have a tag.
.......IF intent is enough.......
On page 4 in the LEH synopsis it says on a shared hunt that if all members of a group must have a valid moose licence and any group member may take a moose.

I read this to the CO the other day when I was talking to him so he new what I was asking him.

This statement on page 4 is really telling you that if all are hunting on this shared hunt and any of them wishing to shoot a moose then you need a moose tag to do so.

If I don't wish to shoot a moose on this shared moose hunt and I was part of the party that got picked I would not need a moose tag as long as I did not pull the trigger.

There is nothing wrong with me being there and say I wanted to call a moose out for my buddy and not shoot it and he wants to shoot it ,thats fine he shoots the moose ,he tags the moose ,its as clear as that http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[hunter1947]

So, if 4 of you get picked, and only one in camp has a tag, it is okay, as long as only the tag holder shoots a moose?
Thats right:mrgreen:.

[hunter1947]

Read The F**king Regulations It Clearly States Everything You Are Asking...
I have read the LEH regs and a few lines are not clear to me or others :lol: :lol: :lol:.

[hunter1947]

No. All members of the shared hunt must have a moose tag to be on the moose hunt. It's illegal not to. Obviously the Island doesn't have much exposure to shared moose hunts in the CO Service compared to the CO Supervisor here in the Okanagan who deals with them on a regular basis.:| Buddy on the Island who knows squat about moose hunts might tell you it's okay to hunt moose without a tag, but you'll get charged and fined if you try that where the MOOSE LIVE. :wink:

That's okay H47, take your wife hunting with you when she has her name on the LEH authorization, and don't buy her a moose tag, as the money from the fine that she gets that goes to the HCTF will be more than the portion of the (unbought) moose tag. The HCTF can always use more money for wildlife projects.
FD I am not trying to break any law or my wife ,as for my wife she has no license or firearms etc ,she never goes on hunts with me ether.

FD I am not trying to break any law ,thats why I phoned to ask about this tag issue thing.

I have never broken the law in 51 years of hunting.

the CO I talked to said that he would get back to me on this because he was not sure on what I asked him so he said he would ask others to find out ,it took him 2 days to get back to me after he found out about my question I asked.

You should get an opinion from the wildlife branch from your area or other on this issue and find out what they say about it ,I would like to know what they say ,if they say different then I would get back to the CO and let him know were you got your information from and go from there http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif. PS here is his office # if you don't believe me on what information I got from him ,give him a call and talk to him yourself FD.

Dan Dwyer field Supervisor for the north Island Black Creek BC ,phone at 1-250-286-7630.

[Fisher-Dude]

H47, you are 100% wrong on this. I do believe that your friend gave you that information, but he is wrong. If your name is on the shared LEH, and you go on the moose hunt without a moose tag, you are breaking the law. Period. It's clearly written in the regulations.

Horshur, you're missing the intent of the shared hunt. The intent is to allow more people to hunt moose without having to harvest more moose. It is not just to increase your odds. Blaming the "government" for setting it up and then looking for ways to cheat it is a bit beyond ridiculous. That big bad government that is oppressing you with this shared hunt just wants you, the wife, and Russell to go moose hunting together. I don't think that's a bad thing.

[hunter1947]

H47, you are 100% wrong on this. I do believe that your friend gave you that information, but he is wrong. If your name is on the shared LEH, and you go on the moose hunt without a moose tag, you are breaking the law. Period. It's clearly written in the regulations.

Horshur, you're missing the intent of the shared hunt. The intent is to allow more people to hunt moose without having to harvest more moose. It is not just to increase your odds. Blaming the "government" for setting it up and then looking for ways to cheat it is a bit beyond ridiculous. That big bad government that is oppressing you with this shared hunt just wants you, the wife, and Russell to go moose hunting together. I don't think that's a bad thing.
Well FD then its up to you to prove me wrong. Give this CO a call and talk to him ,he went over his head to others to find this information out for me ,so I guess the others are wrong as well ????.

[boxhitch]

There is nothing wrong with me being there and say I wanted to call a moose out for my buddy and not shoot it and he wants to shoot it ,thats fine he shoots the moose ,he tags the moose ,its as clear as that http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.Well now you are participating in the moose hunt, by definition you are hunting. Do you carry a rifle ? You had better have a license and a tag.

[hunter1947]

What Horshur said in a reply back a few post makes perfect sense to me ,I can't see that he misunderstood anything on his statement :-?.

[rocksteady]

Read The F**king Regulations It Clearly States Everything You Are Asking...


It may be clear to you...however others are not that clear....

[rocksteady]

No. All members of the shared hunt must have a moose tag to be on the moose hunt. It's illegal not to. Obviously the Island doesn't have much exposure to shared moose hunts in the CO Service compared to the CO Supervisor here in the Okanagan who deals with them on a regular basis.Buddy on the Island who knows squat about moose hunts might tell you it's okay to hunt moose without a tag, but you'll get charged and fined if you try that where the MOOSE LIVE. :wink:

That's okay H47, take your wife hunting with you when she has her name on the LEH authorization, and don't buy her a moose tag, as the money from the fine that she gets that goes to the HCTF will be more than the portion of the (unbought) moose tag. The HCTF can always use more money for wildlife projects.

No need to make it personal or riddled with sarcasm, just to get your point across...

Hunter 1947 asked an honest question and got an informed decision (from a CO)....Keep it civil..

[boxhitch]

mom dad and son draw a shared hunt...only need one moose so buy one tag...if the kid comes along does he really need a tag? No. Just as long as dad shoots the moose.
.Anyone participating needs a tag. The rule doesn't stipulate whether it applies to ma/pa/son or three rednecks of questionable heritage. Maybe it should.

[steel_ram]

If your referring to me as one I'm not trying to cheat or ruin it for any one ,I just want to no what the law is and what I can do and what I can't do and now I know what I can do if I wanted to. Like I said back on this thread that if I was hunting on a shared moose hunt and I was part of the shared I certainly would buy a moose tag ,I would be stupid not to ;-).

No I'm not refering to anyone in particular.

If a hunter applies for a shared hunt using hunter numbers of those that this hunter knows are not really interested in hunting or buying a tag, for the sole purpose of increasing his or hers odds, over other individuals, it is abusing the system. Pretty sure there is no law broken, but does that make it right?

At least when people put in for individual draws on behalf of their non interested spouses, to increase their odds of getting in on a draw, the spouse (or who ever) has to actually buy a licence and tag, be in the truck and say that they shot it.

[Fisher-Dude]

No need to make it personal or riddled with sarcasm, just to get your point across...

Hunter 1947 asked an honest question and got an informed decision (from a CO)....Keep it civil..

He talked with a CO that doesn't deal with the issue of shared moose hunts. I talked with the CO Supervisor that administers them here in the interior. The mere fact that the CO Supervisor I dealt with knew the answer to the question instantly, as it is printed in the regulations, compared to H47's CO who had no idea about it, should tell you something.

Like I said, everyone do as they wish. They will get fined if they are caught hunting moose on a shared LEH without a tag.

[rocksteady]

So in this scenario...4 hunters in a shared hunt for 2 moose....

I shoot a bull elk prior to the hunt...I only have need for 1 large animal to fill my freezer.....

I go out with hunter "A" who has a tag, as a guide, spotter, sherpa WITHOUT a moose tag...I still pack a rifle to shoot a mulie or whitey.....

Does this mean I am under contravention under the regulations. I do not think so....

I have gone hunting with guys once I am tagged out, during the late whitetail season, been stopped by the CO's. When they look that I am tagged out, I tell them I am the helper and packing a rifle in case I run into a coyote, or if my buddy happens to wound something, I have a rifle to finish it off, rather than only having one rifle and endlessly following a wounded deer and never recovering it......The CO's said " great idea....good thinkin"......

As long as there is honesty involved, the CO's don't want to mess you over....

[Fisher-Dude]

So in this scenario...4 hunters in a shared hunt for 2 moose....

I shoot a bull elk prior to the hunt...I only have need for 1 large animal to fill my freezer.....

I go out with hunter "A" who has a tag, as a guide, spotter, sherpa WITHOUT a moose tag...I still pack a rifle to shoot a mulie or whitey.....

Does this mean I am under contravention under the regulations. I do not think so....

I have gone hunting with guys once I am tagged out, during the late whitetail season, been stopped by the CO's. When they look that I am tagged out, I tell them I am the helper and packing a rifle in case I run into a coyote, or if my buddy happens to wound something, I have a rifle to finish it off, rather than only having one rifle and endlessly following a wounded deer and never recovering it......The CO's said " great idea....good thinkin"......

As long as there is honesty involved, the CO's don't want to mess you over....

Rocky, you can't compare hunting for whatever species in a GOS with the specific rules of the shared LEH moose draw. They are different, and I think that is why people are having difficulty seeing the rationale for the requirement to have a tag for the LEH. You can't apply "hunting for coyotes after you shot a whitetail" GOS rules with participating in a shared LEH moose hunt without a moose tag. The rule was written SPECIFICALLY for the moose hunt to ensure that no "hanky panky" with punching the other guy's tag goes on by those dropping the moose (I know hanky panky will happen, but this does help mitigate the abuse). That's why this new moose rule is in big bold type in the LEH regulations. Don't try to apply GOS rules to the LEH system.

[rocksteady]

Okay, since this seems to be going in circles, I will email a CO associate of mine and get his take.....

Will post his response when I get it...

[mcrae]

Not to muddy the waters anymore but from my personal experience when we went on our first shared hunt a couple of years ago for moose in 7-38 we contacted the CO's and were told all of the guys in the party had to have a moose tag..

We had the CO's stop in on a patrol and check us because we had a moose hanging and they checked all of us for moose tags. I am not saying yes or no but from what I have been told and experienced FD is right. That being said sometimes there seems to be allot of "grey" areas in these rules and regs and can really frustrate a fella who wants to do things right but can't figure out what right really is...

I would error on the side of caution and just buy the tag...

[hunter1947]

Okay, since this seems to be going in circles, I will email a CO associate of mine and get his take.....

Will post his response when I get it...
That's good Mike ,I would like to no from some other source as for what I have herd from. My case lays rested till i hear back from you mike ,just make sure that you have told all of the above. Thankshttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[hunter1947]

Not to muddy the waters anymore but from my personal experience when we went on our first shared hunt a couple of years ago for moose in 7-38 we contacted the CO's and were told all of the guys in the party had to have a moose tag..

We had the CO's stop in on a patrol and check us because we had a moose hanging and they checked all of us for moose tags. I am not saying yes or no but from what I have been told and experienced FD is right. That being said sometimes there seems to be allot of "grey" areas in these rules and regs and can really frustrate a fella who wants to do things right but can't figure out what right really is...

I would error on the side of caution and just buy the tag... Did you tell the co that all you were hunting moose or only 3 of you ???.

[hunter1947]

Rocky, you can't compare hunting for whatever species in a GOS with the specific rules of the shared LEH moose draw. They are different, and I think that is why people are having difficulty seeing the rationale for the requirement to have a tag for the LEH. You can't apply "hunting for coyotes after you shot a whitetail" GOS rules with participating in a shared LEH moose hunt without a moose tag. The rule was written SPECIFICALLY for the moose hunt to ensure that no "hanky panky" with punching the other guy's tag goes on by those dropping the moose (I know hanky panky will happen, but this does help mitigate the abuse). That's why this new moose rule is in big bold type in the LEH regulations. Don't try to apply GOS rules to the LEH system.
FD I did not use the GOS hunting regs when I talked to the CO ,I read what the LEH regs for this year said. Its good that Rocksteady is going to get feed back from someone else on this issue.

Its really not an issue to me anyways ,like i said if I went on a shared hunt all would have a moose tag. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[rocksteady]

Wayne, I think FD was actually aiming at my comment that I have accompanied others for late season whiteys (GOS) rather than an LEH......

Email sent to 2 different Co's that I have good comms with...Stay tuned for responses....:mrgreen:

[hunter1947]

Wayne, I think FD was actually aiming at my comment that I have accompanied others for late season whiteys (GOS) rather than an LEH......

Email sent to 2 different Co's that I have good comms with...Stay tuned for responses....:mrgreen:
O if so I'm sorry.

[steel_ram]

I do recall somewhere about some guys that were out doing some target shooting on crown land. They were not hunting. Some authorities challenged them for there hunting licences. I can't remember the legal outcome but the overwhelming response from posters, some of which I know are POs, is that as long as they were not persuing game, guns were non restricted, registered etc. and the individuals had firearms licences there was no law broken.

How can anyone driving in a vehicle be considered persuing game/ hunting anyways? Nobody does that!

There use to be a provincial lic. required for such excursions by non hunters instead of having to buy a full hunting licence but it was done away with several years ago.

[hunter1947]

He talked with a CO that doesn't deal with the issue of shared moose hunts. I talked with the CO Supervisor that administers them here in the interior. The mere fact that the CO Supervisor I dealt with knew the answer to the question instantly, as it is printed in the regulations, compared to H47's CO who had no idea about it, should tell you something.

Like I said, everyone do as they wish. They will get fined if they are caught hunting moose on a shared LEH without a tag.
That's why I want to get to the bottom of this.

[horshur]

He talked with a CO that doesn't deal with the issue of shared moose hunts. I talked with the CO Supervisor that administers them here in the interior. The mere fact that the CO Supervisor I dealt with knew the answer to the question instantly, as it is printed in the regulations, compared to H47's CO who had no idea about it, should tell you something.

Like I said, everyone do as they wish. They will get fined if they are caught hunting moose on a shared LEH without a tag.

guess it would depend on what CO you got...LOL

[rocksteady]

guess it would depend on what CO you got...LOL


Not a LOL matter...Seriously, some CO's, Police etc have their own interpretation of regulations etc and still lay tickets/charges, that are not cleared up until a court challenge....

[horshur]

Anyone participating needs a tag. The rule doesn't stipulate whether it applies to ma/pa/son or three rednecks of questionable heritage. Maybe it should.

Frankly this shared hunt deal seems a typical goverment initiative...let yah kill two moose for the price of four.
And whether you actually intend to kill the two moose is irelevent.Apparently you still need a tag for a moose you do not want to shoot.
And the rule as it stands requires a CO to investigate what it actually means before he can make an official reply...which ends up still debatable in the end.

I know who is playing the banjo's...it ain't the family that just wants a moose for the freezer.

[steel_ram]

Apparently you still need a tag for a moose you do not want to shoot.

Then why put in for a shared hunt? If you want groceries, buy them.

[KevinB]

[quote=horshur;292612]
And whether you actually intend to kill the two moose is irelevent.Apparently you still need a tag for a moose you do not want to shoot.

If you don't want to shoot the moose, then why would you have applied for an LEH tag? If you want to take advantage of the benefits of a shared hunt, then you have to play by it's rules whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't agree with the shared hunts then don't take advantage of them, you're always free to submit a series of single applications. You can't always have your cake and eat it too :wink:

And the rule as it stands requires a CO to investigate what it actually means before he can make an official reply...which ends up still debatable in the end.

That's because he asked a CO from the Island who never has much to do with shared hunts. The CO from the shared hunt area is who you'll see in the bush, not the guy from the Island.
quote]

BTW horshur I do agree with you that many of the regs are a bit grey and could be open to interpretation. Most laws are that's why there are so many rich defence lawyers!:biggrin:

[KevinB]

I can't believe how complicated everyone is making this. It seems pretty clear to me. And if you apply common sense.

If you want to show up on a shared hunt for which you were drawn, while the other group members are hunting moose, you have to have a tag for that species. Trying to claim to the CO that you aren't hunting for moose isn't going to get you very far.

If you try to tell a CO that you had no intention of shooting a moose, then why did you apply for a tag with the rest of the group? There's a paper trail that you yourself filled out that says you want to shoot a moose. If you want to try to challenge that in court, go ahead but I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

If you have already filled that tag, earlier in a GOS, then you aren't part of the shared hunt anymore, you can't hunt another moose, so there's no issue if you show up with a deer tag or whatever and accompany the rest of the shared hunt group. Just don't look out the truck window and say "hey look there's a bull moose I'll go call him in for you" to one of the other group members while a CO is sitting beside you.

Some of you guys could try to make the simplest things complicated! Aren't there more useful things to spend time worrying about? Just buy the $25 tag if you aren't sure, or call both a CO in the hunt area, and someone in the legislation section in Victoria, and get your answers in writing instead of endlessly debating it here. If I really wanted to save the $25 that's what I'd do. Instead I have better things to do so I choose to give my $25 to the Gov, hopefully they'll spend it wisely on wildlife management.

[boxhitch]

Aren't there more useful things to spend time worrying about?
But that would defeat the whole purpose of threads like these. They have a purpose too.
Chirp.chirp,chirp

[Fisher-Dude]

I can't believe how complicated everyone is making this. It seems pretty clear to me. And if you apply common sense.

If you want to show up on a shared hunt for which you were drawn, while the other group members are hunting moose, you have to have a tag for that species. Trying to claim to the CO that you aren't hunting for moose isn't going to get you very far.

If you try to tell a CO that you had no intention of shooting a moose, then why did you apply for a tag with the rest of the group? There's a paper trail that you yourself filled out that says you want to shoot a moose. If you want to try to challenge that in court, go ahead but I wouldn't want to be your lawyer.

If you have already filled that tag, earlier in a GOS, then you aren't part of the shared hunt anymore, you can't hunt another moose, so there's no issue if you show up with a deer tag or whatever and accompany the rest of the shared hunt group. Just don't look out the truck window and say "hey look there's a bull moose I'll go call him in for you" to one of the other group members while a CO is sitting beside you.

Some of you guys could try to make the simplest things complicated! Aren't there more useful things to spend time worrying about? Just buy the $25 tag if you aren't sure, or call both a CO in the hunt area, and someone in the legislation section in Victoria, and get your answers in writing instead of endlessly debating it here. If I really wanted to save the $25 that's what I'd do. Instead I have better things to do so I choose to give my $25 to the Gov, hopefully they'll spend it wisely on wildlife management.

Absolutely correct. If you tell the judge you never wanted to hunt a moose, but put in for a moose LEH and then went on a moose hunt without a moose tag, you'll be having a "shared shower" with Bubba in jail to teach you the concept of "shared hunt". :-P

[shortroot]

I ran into this situation 2 years ago in region 5. My mother, father, brother and I all applied for a shared moose hunt. We were successfully drawn and prior to hunting I phoned the CO service in Williams Lake to ask this exact question. They stated that only those members of the party actually "hunting" moose, with the "intention" of "shooting" a moose were required to purchase a tag.

Throughout the season dad accompanied each of us, his name and hunter number on our LEH authorizations. We were stopped and asked what we were doing by a CO. We explained that we were hunting moose, and asked to produce our licenses. Since we only had one moose tag (as only one of us was with dad at the time), he asked why my father didn't have tag. We explained that he wanted his boys to shoot the moose we were eligible for, he would shoot a buck if we ran into one. No problems arose from this.

You can not break the law if you do not committ a crime. I can hold an LEH permit for a moose in a zone, hunt in that zone during moose season without a moose tag, I just can not shoot a moose until I have a legal tag to do so. It is the choice of the hunter to purchase a tag, they can hunt all season in their draw zone for other species that are open, never buying a tag for their draw species. The law is broken if they chose to shoot a species they had no tag for.

I can hunt deer in a closed moose area, pack around my moose calls and gun, call moose and video them coming to calls, etc. It is not until the point where you shoot the animal that a tag is required.

That being said, I buy a tag for all species I plan on shooting, just in case I run across "the one" during the season.

[Fisher-Dude]

It is not until the point where you shoot the animal that a tag is required.


No. If you are stalking or pursuing or calling, you need a tag:

"Species licences are required for the hunting of the following animals and are required in addition to the basic hunting licences"

Hunting is: "shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or NOT wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed, or captured"

[Dannybuoy]

guess it would depend on what CO you got...LOL
I think you did hit the mark with this horshur ...The Co's are human and dont always enforce everything to the letter . And thats OK
Well written KevinB ... I agree
All members of our shared hunt buy a tag(when we get drawn) whether they are on every hunt or not ... its just alot simpler to get the tag at the beginning of the season.

[hunter1947]

I ran into this situation 2 years ago in region 5. My mother, father, brother and I all applied for a shared moose hunt. We were successfully drawn and prior to hunting I phoned the CO service in Williams Lake to ask this exact question. They stated that only those members of the party actually "hunting" moose, with the "intention" of "shooting" a moose were required to purchase a tag.

Throughout the season dad accompanied each of us, his name and hunter number on our LEH authorizations. We were stopped and asked what we were doing by a CO. We explained that we were hunting moose, and asked to produce our licenses. Since we only had one moose tag (as only one of us was with dad at the time), he asked why my father didn't have tag. We explained that he wanted his boys to shoot the moose we were eligible for, he would shoot a buck if we ran into one. No problems arose from this.

You can not break the law if you do not committ a crime. I can hold an LEH permit for a moose in a zone, hunt in that zone during moose season without a moose tag, I just can not shoot a moose until I have a legal tag to do so. It is the choice of the hunter to purchase a tag, they can hunt all season in their draw zone for other species that are open, never buying a tag for their draw species. The law is broken if they chose to shoot a species they had no tag for.

I can hunt deer in a closed moose area, pack around my moose calls and gun, call moose and video them coming to calls, etc. It is not until the point where you shoot the animal that a tag is required.

That being said, I buy a tag for all species I plan on shooting, just in case I run across "the one" during the season.

That's exactly what I have been saying ,no tag no moose. If the 4 got picked and the one person does not want to shoot a moose he does not need to buy a moose tag .

The shared hunt LEH states you all need a tag if all are going to hunt and shoot a moose. Say I was the one that did not buy a moose tag but was the one out of the 4 that got picked for a shared moose hunt.

I went up with the other 3 and say I stayed in camp and a CO came into camp and asked if I was hunting and I said yes I am with 3 others that got picked for a shared moose hunt. He asked me for my L and moose tag I said I am not going to hunt the moose out in the bush ,I am staying in camp and looking after the camp thats why I don't have a moose tag the other 3 are out hunting for the moose.

I said to the CO the only reason I put in for a shared hunt was to better the odds for the 4 of us that put in for it.

What can the CO do to fine you because your sitting in camp ???.

[hunter1947]

No. If you are stalking or pursuing or calling, you need a tag:

"Species licences are required for the hunting of the following animals and are required in addition to the basic hunting licences"

Hunting is: "shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or NOT wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed, or captured"

FD Even if you had no gun with you ,you need a tag if your calling in a moose for your buddy and your part of the shared hunt ???

[bighornbob]

No. If you are stalking or pursuing or calling, you need a tag:

"Species licences are required for the hunting of the following animals and are required in addition to the basic hunting licences"

Hunting is: "shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or NOT wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed, or captured"

Fisher you are really splitting hairs on this one. But based on your quote above every hunter who has gone scouting (searching for) in the summer is breaking the law as they are hunting when there is no open season regardless if they plan on killing the animal.

What about hunters waiting for first light. You drive or hike in while waiting (lying in wait for wildlife) for the 1 hour before legal shooting light. all these people are then hunting before shooting light.

Another example, is all the sheep hunters that fly-in. Most guys all go days before opening day either to find a ram or get to an area. Using the Hunting definition they are all breaking the law becuase they are hunting before the season opens.

How do you explain that one one???

BHB

[GoatGuy]

That's exactly what I have been saying ,no tag no moose. If the 4 got picked and the one person does not want to shoot a moose he does not need to buy a moose tag .

The shared hunt LEH states you all need a tag if all are going to hunt and shoot a moose. Say I was the one that did not buy a moose tag but was the one out of the 4 that got picked for a shared moose hunt.

I went up with the other 3 and say I stayed in camp and a CO came into camp and asked if I was hunting and I said yes I am with 3 others that got picked for a shared moose hunt. He asked me for my L and moose tag I said I am not going to hunt the moose out in the bush ,I am staying in camp and looking after the camp thats why I don't have a moose tag the other 3 are out hunting for the moose.

I said to the CO the only reason I put in for a shared hunt was to better the odds for the 4 of us that put in for it.

What can the CO do to fine you because your sitting in camp ???.
H47

I believe you're right. To my recollection there isn't anything in this about the Wildlife Act. You need to purchase a species license to shoot a moose but as a group not everyone has to purchase a species license or even a hunting license - just the person who wants to go hunting and harvest a moose.

It's a bit of a loophole that could be sealed up with amendments to the act but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Irregardless any hunter number which is drawn will be on reduced odds per Wildlife Act/LEH.

Similar things happen in Alberta where you're able to share your draw with somebody after the fact. They found wives putting in for draws so husbands could "double dip". In that case both the one who was drawn and the won they're sharing it with has to be hunting and purchase license but either can trip the trigger.


There's often a loophole and there's certainly always somebody willing to exploit it. Human nature.

[Fisher-Dude]

Fisher you are really splitting hairs on this one. But based on your quote above every hunter who has gone scouting (searching for) in the summer is breaking the law as they are hunting when there is no open season regardless if they plan on killing the animal.

What about hunters waiting for first light. You drive or hike in while waiting (lying in wait for wildlife) for the 1 hour before legal shooting light. all these people are then hunting before shooting light.

Another example, is all the sheep hunters that fly-in. Most guys all go days before opening day either to find a ram or get to an area. Using the Hunting definition they are all breaking the law becuase they are hunting before the season opens.

How do you explain that one one???

BHB

I explain it by quoting the regulations and what they state in black and white. Your interpretation may vary. Say hi to Judge Judy for me. :p

[Frango]

It's only $25.what's the issue here?.Is it not worth 25 bucks to know your legal?

[Fisher-Dude]

I said I am not going to hunt the moose out in the bush ,I am staying in camp and looking after the camp thats why I don't have a moose tag the other 3 are out hunting for the moose.


What can the CO do to fine you because your sitting in camp ???.

Did you have a gun? Did you look out the window of the truck on the drive in thru the LEH zone? Lots of guys have killed moose while sitting in a chair by the campfire too. You're hunting without a tag - you're breaking the law.

[bighornbob]

I explain it by quoting the regulations and what they state in black and white. Your interpretation may vary. Say hi to Judge Judy for me. :p

My interpretations dont vary, you provided the definition for hunting and anyone that goes (searching for) in the summer is breaking the law as there is no season then. Its not up for interpretation its clearly in black and white as you said earlier.

I think you may be the one visiting Judeg Joe Brown for breaking the law with some summer scouting.

BHB

[Fisher-Dude]

My interpretations dont vary, you provided the definition for hunting and anyone that goes (searching for) in the summer is breaking the law as there is no season then. Its not up for interpretation its clearly in black and white as you said earlier.

I think you may be the one visiting Judeg Joe Brown for breaking the law with some summer scouting.

BHB

Joe's wayyyyy nicer than that biatch Judy. I'll be huntin' starlings on that summer scoutin' trip. :wink:

[hunter1947]

Joe's wayyyyy nicer than that biatch Judy. I'll be huntin' starlings on that summer scoutin' trip. :wink:

FD I will take any other judge other then Judy ,I wouldn't stand a chance against her LOL.

[hunter1947]

It's only $25.what's the issue here?.Is it not worth 25 bucks to know your legal?

Frango ,I just want to see if you do not need a tag for a shared if you are not going to hunt for moose when you are on an LEH shared ,I'm just curios to know if It is breaking the law and when RS gets back to us we will have another answer from else where.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[Frango]

Frango ,I just want to see if you do not need a tag for a shared if you are not going to hunt for moose when you are on an LEH shared ,I'm just curios to know if It is breaking the law and when RS gets back to us we will have another answer from else where.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.
Ok wayne just wondered.I buy at tag for both deer even though I don't go out of my way to hunt them,just covering my bases.

[Ironball]

Frango ,I just want to see if you do not need a tag for a shared if you are not going to hunt for moose when you are on an LEH shared ,I'm just curios to know if It is breaking the law and when RS gets back to us we will have another answer from else where.

As stated in my previous post the co's {2}just wanted to make sure he is not hunting even though his name is on the LEH.They actually smurked when they saw his name on the LEH and said something on the lines of "trying to increase your odds, we see it all the time"
So i believe H 47 is correct.

Cheers ,Kevin

[shortroot]

Joe's wayyyyy nicer than that biatch Judy. I'll be huntin' starlings on that summer scoutin' trip. :wink:


You're above statement is no different than hunting mule deer in moose season. If I choose not to hunt a certain species the regulations do not make me. If I choose to walk through the bush in hunting season without a hunting license or species tag, being a successful LEH applicant or not, the CO's can not charge me for illegally hunting unless I make a statement to the fact that I am hunting. It is not illegal to pack a gun in the bush, and it deffinately is not illegal to choose not to "hunt" a species (by not purchasing a tag for them). There are numerous individuals in the bush who pack firemarms that are not hunting. There are numerous individuals who are in mixed bag areas that do not pack tags for all species. Just because it is a shared hunt makes it no different, until the regulations state that all successful applicants must purchase a hunting license and corresponding species tag there is no way to charge an individual by exercising their right to choice.

What Fisher-Dude is implying is that each person who draws a moose tag, who goes into the bush during moose season without a tag is breaking the law because their intent is to shoot a moose without a tag and let their buddy punch the tag. This is an assumption that all individuals putting themselves into this situation are of questionable moral character in the first place, they are in contravention of the regulations because we all know that every person who submits an LEH application intends to hunt for that species.

There are a thousand ways to interpret the qouted "regulatiuons" that you have posted. However, there is no judge, who, in their "right" mind would uphold a charge against an individual who was successfully drawn for an LEH Shared moose hunt, who joined their hunting group with no intention of hunting moose (thus no species tag), but rather another species (say deer). That is unless the CO witnessed the individual shooting a moose, someone else witnessed the individual shoot a moose or the individual made a statement to the CO that they were hunting moose and could not produce a valid species license.

It does not bother me at all if a member of a hunting party does not buy a tag, if they legitimately have no intention on shooting the species in question. I do, however, believe that there are those out there with less than adequate moral standards who do try to break the rules. You can not punish those individuals with no intention of breaking the law.

The only solution to this issue is less ambiguous regulations. They are not so "black and white" as you have stated Fisher Dude. They may be printed black on white, making them appear clear and easy to read, but they are not that picture perfect in their clarity.

[Fisher-Dude]

Just because it is a shared hunt makes it no different,until the regulations state that all successful applicants must purchase a hunting license and corresponding species tag

But there IS a regulation that says you must have a tag. It says:

"All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence"

Read the regulations.

[Benthos]

First off, I can't believe how many people post on this forum during regular work hours. i couldn't believe the number of responses from today.

instead of asking the co's around the province, who only enforce the regulations to the best of their ability (which may change depending on how they interpret those regulations), why not simply call the guy in Victoria who WROTE the regulation?

Fish and Wildlife Branch
Telephone: (250) 387-9771

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/index.html

[mcrae]

Well guys I have the synopsis right in front of me and I am reading the Limited Entry Shared Hunt explanation and FD is right it says right in the explanation of a shared hunt that all members of the group "must" have a valid moose license.. If your wife is part of the group that was drawn and she is in camp with the group that says to me she must be in camp with a license and tag...

When we were checked I had actually shot a spike fork moose which was in the general open season so it did not apply to our shared hunt quota... The CO's then asked for licenses from the rest of the guys in camp and checked to make sure we all had moose tags...

Sometimes these damn regs really confuse me because it makes sense what everyone is saying...

[boxhitch]

The CO's then asked for licenses from the rest of the guys in camp and checked to make sure we all had moose tags...

What was his reason for asking for moose tags ? Maybe just looking for all tags, checking to see what was cut ? Relevance, Judge ?

[horshur]

Then why put in for a shared hunt? If you want groceries, buy them.

see this is the deal....apparently there are those who have a different goal when they hunt moose..apparently to you them goals are more relevant or valuable.

I hunt moose to eat!

so why do you hunt??? is moose hunting a only a social event? perhaps and opportunity to show off? to put some miles on the quad just to justify the purchase.
I know judgeing the rigs that go past my home...moose hunting ain't about feeding the family...more about how many toys you can pull or put on a duramax or cummins.....how much fuel you can burn..who has the bigger tent or the hot tub or the beer.

why the hell is your reason more important than mine...think about it really!
you just insulted a meat hunter...how vain are you?

[horshur]

If you don't want to shoot the moose, then why would you have applied for an LEH tag? If you want to take advantage of the benefits of a shared hunt, then you have to play by it's rules whether you think they are fair or not. If you don't agree with the shared hunts then don't take advantage of them, you're always free to submit a series of single applications. You can't always have your cake and eat it too :wink:




Kevin you can say that with a straight face...it took 23 years to draw a moose tag. I am a much better moose hunter than gambler.

In regards to your comment about the CO from the island....if a trained pro can't get it right how in the hell would a laymen!!!! That is not an excuse it is an admission.

[Fisher-Dude]

Kevin you can say that with a straight face...it took 23 years to draw a moose tag. I am a much better moose hunter than gambler.

In regards to your comment about the CO from the island....if a trained pro can't get it right how in the hell would a laymen!!!! That is not an excuse it is an admission.

I've drawn one in 30 years.

So, join a club and work for some simplification of the rules. Oh wait, you don't wanna spend that $40.

So, attend an LEH review meeting and give some input on these items. Oh wait, that conflicted with your schedule.

So, buy a quad and a diesel and go up north to GOS any bull moose season. Oh wait, that would be "showing off".

Sorry, I'm outta ideas. 8):wink:

[horshur]

fish

I was not refering to you in any way....

Let it be know I appreciate your efforts on behalf of all hunters in BC and wish you success.

[horshur]

ps

Bloody well a big enough asshole we might have a hope.

[hunter1947]

[quote=Fisher-Dude;292732]But there IS a regulation that says you must have a tag. It says:

"All members of the group must have a valid Moose species licence"

Read the regulations.[/quotto FD That statement only applies if all are going to hunt the moose they need a moose tag http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.



FD We will see what RS Mike finds out hear shortly to settle this case once and for all http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[hunter1947]

What was his reason for asking for moose tags ? Maybe just looking for all tags, checking to see what was cut ? Relevance, Judge ?
Agreed http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[hunter1947]

What I should do is phone to Victoria today and talk to a person that makes up the LEH regs and ask them about this issue.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

[steel_ram]

see this is the deal....apparently there are those who have a different goal when they hunt moose..apparently to you them goals are more relevant or valuable.

I hunt moose to eat!

so why do you hunt??? is moose hunting a only a social event? perhaps and opportunity to show off? to put some miles on the quad just to justify the purchase.
I know judgeing the rigs that go past my home...moose hunting ain't about feeding the family...more about how many toys you can pull or put on a duramax or cummins.....how much fuel you can burn..who has the bigger tent or the hot tub or the beer.

why the hell is your reason more important than mine...think about it really!
you just insulted a meat hunter...how vain are you?


LOL! I don't even own a truck right now. I assure you I am the most humblest of hunters equipment wise.

I do not like how so many people think it's OK to increase there odds by using hunter numbers of friends/family, soley for that purpose. Everyone who actually hunts, wants a tag and should have equal chance of drawing one. Those that for some reason think they should have better odds than anyone else are wrong! Personally I don't care whether one hunts because one likes expensive meat or just likes to brag what an awesome killer they are.

If you put in for a draw, you are stating you want a tag for yourself, if this is not the case, you are helping someone else CHEAT! It's that simple, regardless of legallity or enforceabilty.

[mcrae]

What was his reason for asking for moose tags ?

We had stated we were on a shared moose hunt and had lucked out on a spike fork bull. They then checked my license and the rest of the guys as well.

[KevinB]

Kevin you can say that with a straight face...it took 23 years to draw a moose tag. I am a much better moose hunter than gambler.

In regards to your comment about the CO from the island....if a trained pro can't get it right how in the hell would a laymen!!!! That is not an excuse it is an admission.

horshur no insult intended at all, not sure what you mean about the staight face...lots of people use the benefits of the shared LEH system to help increase their odds (nothing at all wrong with that IMHO, and I think if you can do that to get your son out there on a moose hunt, then that's good - I hope you get a moose while he's with you!). But if you want to increase your odds it comes at the cost of the extra 25 bucks if they are going to be out there in the field with the other shared hunt group members. That was my point. And at the same time the most reasonable interpretation of the regulations is that those group members out on the hunt must have a tag, whether they actually want to shoot one of the moose or not, and those group members who are not out on the hunt don't have to. That's probably what it would come down to in court. Not fair but then that's our legal system. A call Victoria to ask them if there have been any court cases and how the regulation was interpreted, would be useful for anyone who wants to figure out if they can legally save the 25 bucks.

Now, whether the whole LEH system is a good one or not is a whole other topic! I think the shared hunts are a good idea but I think that if a GOS can be sustained then there should be NO LEH at all.

and I have drawn bull moose tags two years in a row for the same area...and no moose. I guess I'm a better gambler than moose hunter! :roll:

[shortroot]

LOL! I don't even own a truck right now. I assure you I am the most humblest of hunters equipment wise.

I do not like how so many people think it's OK to increase there odds by using hunter numbers of friends/family, soley for that purpose. Everyone who actually hunts, wants a tag and should have equal chance of drawing one. Those that for some reason think they should have better odds than anyone else are wrong! Personally I don't care whether one hunts because one likes expensive meat or just likes to brag what an awesome killer they are.

If you put in for a draw, you are stating you want a tag for yourself, if this is not the case, you are helping someone else CHEAT! It's that simple, regardless of legallity or enforceabilty.


When family members, or friends, put in for shared hunts together it is all about increasing their odds of getting drawn so that they may hunt moose and potentially have some great table fare. If I could I would put in with eight other people for the opportunity at a couple of moose. I don't need a whole moose for myself, a 1/4 would be fine. For a family to put in as a group of 4, with the opportunity at harvesting a moose for the entire family, instead of putting in individually and potentially drawing 4 moose (which extremely fewe families could possibly use) it makes much greater sense. I only wish that you could choose to enter as a group of 4, drawing one moose. There are times that we will use our second tag to harvest another moose for family or friends who were unsuccessfully drawn. BTW, the area I apply in is 2:1 to 4:1 odds, so we get drawn very often.

If a husband and wife put in for a draw to feed their family, I do not consider it "cheating" if one or the other chooses not to buy a hunting license if successfully drawn. Only one moose can be shot. Prior to shared hunts your spouse could join you on a days hunt and not be required to have a license, it is no different now, as long as they are just companions of the "hunter".

BTW, the CO will ask for licenses regardless of shared hunt or not. If you don't have a license you can't be charged, unless you make a statement to the fact you are hunting, or have taken an animal. There is absolutely no crime to being a companion on a hunt.

[reach]

No. If you are stalking or pursuing or calling, you need a tag:

"Species licences are required for the hunting of the following animals and are required in addition to the basic hunting licences"

Hunting is: "shooting at, attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying in wait for wildlife, or attempting to do any of those things, whether or NOT wildlife is then subsequently wounded, killed, or captured"
By that definition all wildlife watchers, bird watchers, and other granola eaters would also be hunting and would need a hunting license and species license.

I think if anybody wanted charges to stick based on that, they would have to apply some sort of "intent" argument in addition to that rather narrow definition.

[Fisher-Dude]

By that definition all wildlife watchers, bird watchers, and other granola eaters would also be hunting and would need a hunting license and species license.

I think if anybody wanted charges to stick based on that, they would have to apply some sort of "intent" argument in addition to that rather narrow definition.

I agree. Having a moose LEH in your pocket is a pretty strong "intent" indicator that you are moose hunting!

[shortroot]

I would have my moose LEH in my pocket so that I may fill out harvest information from the rest of my group, although this would indicate participation in the hunt. I also ran into this a couple of years back.

We had shot a moose, hung it at the local cooler, picked it up and had it butchered at another location. The local CO found this suspicious, went to our family home and questioned my parents on this. Asked for their licenses, tags and LEH applications. My parents had not filled theirs LEH tags out and my father only had deer tags. I then received a call on my cell phone and indicated to the officer that neither of my parents had the intention of hunting moose that year, that my brother and I had done so, been successful on two moose, my brother's moose being the one in question for hanging it at the cooler. I explained that both of us had tags, punched them and filled out our LEH cards with the harvest information. I guess that meat storage is not common in the area so it was a bit of a red flag when a moose was stored, but not cut at the cooler. The officer wanted to know where we had shot our moose and also wanted to know how long of a quad ride it was (quads not allowed in zone). He did a very thorough job in asking a lot of questions. In the end he was very satisfied with all of the answers I gave and even stops by now and again to chat with pops.

This is a near identical situation as being argued. We lived in the zone we had applications for, all we had to do was step outside to be hunting moose in our zone. In fact both moose were shot less than 400m apart, 2 weeks apart, less than 10km from home. There was no issue with my father hunting in our zone for deer, no issue with him having no moose tag (even though he had an LEH), and no issue with him not filling out his LEH card as he never intended to actively hunt moose that year.

There is also nothing against an individual not having their moose LEH on them at the time they are "camping" or hunting another species. I do not pack my moose LEH with me unless I am out hunting moose, it stays at home.

[shortroot]

Hunt and Hunting - includes shooting at,
attracting, searching for, chasing, pursuing, following
after or on the trail of, stalking, or lying
in wait for wildlife or attempting to do any of
those things, whether or not the wildlife is
then or subsequently wounded, killed or
captured:
(a) with intention to capture the wildlife, or
(b)while in possession of a firearm or other
weapon.

Full definition

[Fisher-Dude]

I would say that your folks were VERY lucky NOT to get charged with failure to record the harvest by the other members of their group on their LEH authorizations. That is a direct contravention of the LEH regulations and a ticketable offense. Obviously, the CO decided not to bother with charges. He saw the situation for what it was, you using your folks' numbers to increase your odds, and doing squat for R&R, but hey if you don't care about R&R, that's your choice and you're free to exercise it.

I wouldn't advise anyone else to do this just because your folks were lucky enough to escape charges. :frown: Not all COs will walk away from a slam-dunk ticket.

[Gateholio]

Here is my opnion, could be rigth, could be wrong....:-P

The Shared hunt system allows you to increase your odds. There are a couple of conditions to this, which are spelled out in the LEH synopsis. These conditions make things a bit different than if you tagged along wiht your buddy, and only your buddy had the LEH draw.

It says "All members must have a moose tag"

I take that to mean that the 4 of you applied for a moose LEH, and therefore you intend to hunt moose. If one can't make it, then he need not buy a tag, but the other 3 in camp should have one.

If your family only wants one moose, and you are going to shoot it, why is your mother/daughter/wife/son putting in for 2 LEH authorizations? If you are drawn, you have increased your odds at the expense of someone else having chance to hunt moose.

[Smokepole]

Good intentioned or not I think the shared hunts need to be scrapped. It's too open to abuse.Me and my kids could potentially scoop 6 tags out of the system. There's 3 of us with hunter numbers. All we'd have to do is each find 3 retired hunters and use their hunter numbers to fill in cards. 12 chances to get drawn. But we only need 1 moose. So what if we waste 5 tags at least we got 1.
Anyone want to rent my hunter number next year; let's start the bidding at $25....

[Gateholio]

Making peopel pay for atag at the same time they put in the application would eliminate much of the abuse.:smile:

[Dannybuoy]

Making peopel pay for atag at the same time they put in the application would eliminate much of the abuse.:smile:
Yes , or include a tag (and fee) along with the successful LEH papers
Not a bad idea thats for sure ....

[hunter1947]

I just got off the phone talking to Ian Leeson one of the head people that make up the LEH at the wildlife branch on Jutland rd Victoria BC. phone# is 1-250-356-5142.

I read him the shared hunt for moose regarding all need a moose tag for a shared hunt from page 4.



I aked him if say I was one of the four that got picked and did not want to hunt moose and I did not buy a tag and whent along on this hunt and I stay in camp while the others are out hunting moose ,he said then you don't need a moose tag ,only the ones that are out hunting for the moose.

[hunter1947]

Making peopel pay for atag at the same time they put in the application would eliminate much of the abuse.:smile:
Very good point you have there Clark http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[shortroot]

If your family only wants one moose, and you are going to shoot it, why is your mother/daughter/wife/son putting in for 2 LEH authorizations? If you are drawn, you have increased your odds at the expense of someone else having chance to hunt moose.

Gate,
This is my exact comment above, I wish we could choose to have one tag with 4 of us, this would give someone else opportunity. I will continue to increase my odds this way, as the main goal is to put a moose on the table. I am sorry if there are those that have issues with a family applying for a shared hunt that only one or two people will attempt. I have no problem with it, due to the fact that prior to shared hunts we all applied as single entrants. The only difference being that only one person could hunt/shoot the moose. The shared hunts have allowed a lot more individuals the opportunity to hunt, even if my parents no longer choose to. We do not put more applications in now than before shared hunts were available. The shared hunts just allow us to hunt more often (usually every couple of years).

Fisher,
There are very few individuals that you will meet that spend more on licenses than I do. Each year it is roughly $160 for tags and $150 for LEH apps. With another $200 in tags if I get drawn for grizz and head north. There are many individuals that do more for wildlife than I do, and congratulations to them, I applaud their efforts. I will not sit here and bash someone or demean them for playing within the rules. My folks were not "lucky", because they did not break the rules, they did not participate in the "hunt".


"All group members participating in the hunt must
ensure that any kill is immediately recorded in the
Harvest Details section of each shared group
member’s authorization, in conjunction with the
immediate cancelling of the species licence of the
hunter making the kill."

Based on this statement in the LEH Shared Hunt Section of the Synopsis you have to be participating in the hunt. Which I construe to mean being actively involved with "the hunt" through hunting, as the "hunter" making the kill must cancel their species license. Someone sitting in camp, sitting at home, or hunting grouse or deer is not participating in the "hunting" of moose, they may be hunting but not in "the hunt".

The shared hunts provided more opportunity for people to "legally" hunt/shoot moose as a group. With group hunts everyone got a tag, reducing the number of opportunities people had to hunt. With single draws only those drawn could hunt/shoot a moose.

It sounds like the only way you could be happy Fisher, is if it were GOS (where apparently people could hunt just deer and not "have" to buy a tag if drawn for moose) and could hunt with your buddies at your leisure, or if we went back to single entries where the person drawn either hunted or not (by themsleves). Hell, why not make every person with a Hunter # pay a fixed amount per year for tags and licenses so that we can weed out those that aren't "true hunters", as well as ensure that we have funds for game management.

BTW, only a fraction (~28%, ~$6) of your moose tag goes to gauranteed wildlife management, not $25. The rest goes into the provincial funding pool, not wildlife management. The cost of the LEH appication is higher than this alone.

This being said, the government pumps more money into wildlife than licenses and tags bring, so I will state your obvious rebuttle that more than the $25 tag fee eventually ends up benefitting wildlife.

[steel_ram]

This is my exact comment above, I wish we could choose to have one tag with 4 of us, this would give someone else opportunity. I will continue to increase my odds this way, as the main goal is to put a moose on the table. I am sorry if there are those that have issues with a family applying for a shared hunt that only one or two people will attempt.

I agree, there is no need for more than one moose per household, even for a family of 4.

But please tell, why your family of four of which two apparently apply simply to increase your odds, deserves a moose tag more than my family of 4 that only has one active hunter ? Why?

[hunter1947]

I'm all for to dump the shared moose hunt and others ,go back to a single pick for the LEH draws.

It would increase the odds for others buy doing this as well :smile: .

[sealevel]

My wife and i put in for a shared hunt. She comes with me hunting but is not really an active hunter . see packs a 308 but in 25+years of hunting with me see has never shot at anything. I don`t think its cheating that she puts in for a shared hut even if it is increaseing my odds.

[shortroot]

I agree, there is no need for more than one moose per household, even for a family of 4.

But please tell, why your family of four of which two apparently apply simply to increase your odds, deserves a moose tag more than my family of 4 that only has one active hunter ? Why?

No one deserves a draw more than another. We have 4 active hunters (all with Hunter #'s), however, not all choose to hunt each year. Putting in as a shared group does, however, give each individual a better opportunity to hunt and provide food for family. Having your family attain their hunter #'s would provide you the same opportunity. My application has no more of an opportunity to be drawn as the next, but the whole point of the shared hunts is to provide a hunting opportunity that was not available previously with single applications. Instead of 1 tag 1 opportunity, we have 1 tag 2 opportunities, or 2 tags 3/4 opportunities. Therefore, at minimum shared hunts could provide at least 50% more opportunity and potentially 100% more opportunity.

[hunter1947]

My wife and i put in for a shared hunt. She comes with me hunting but is not really an active hunter . see packs a 308 but in 25+years of hunting with me see has never shot at anything. I don`t think its cheating that she puts in for a shared hut even if it is increaseing my odds.
SL I just think it would be a lot better deal if it went back to a single ,no shared would give more hunters an opportunity to get drawen for LEH and it would eliminate the person that did not want to hunt that put in for a draw just to better the group's odds. :roll:.

[shortroot]

I'm all for to dump the shared moose hunt and others ,go back to a single pick for the LEH draws.

It would increase the odds for others buy doing this as well :smile: .

I disagree 1947. There is much greater opportunity under the shared system. The only ones who do not benefit are the individuals who apply as individuals (actually their odds have increased as well due to the increase in the ratio of number of successful applicants to the number of tags released).

As I stated before, our whole family applied prior to shared hunts, as individuals. I believe we had 1 draw in 4/5 years. We have now drawn tags in 3 of 4 years. Same zone, same # of applications (4). If anything the previous single application system was more discriminating than the current shared system, to everyone.

[hunter1947]

I disagree 1947. There is much greater opportunity under the shared system. The only ones who do not benefit are the individuals who apply as individuals (actually their odds have increased as well due to the increase in the ratio of number of successful applicants to the number of tags released).

As I stated before, our whole family applied prior to shared hunts, as individuals. I believe we had 1 draw in 4/5 years. We have now drawn tags in 3 of 4 years. Same zone, same # of applications (4). If anything the previous single application system was more discriminating than the current shared system, to everyone.
Every one is entitled to there opinion http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[sealevel]

Really there is no more oppertunity in a shared hunt. i think it just a bunch of bull. If i drew a tag i would most likely take my wife or my buddy they would still be hunting just not for moose. Just seems like a way to sell 2 tags for one moose. Do`s the money go to wildlife or into general revenue ??

[shortroot]

No one deserves a draw more than another. We have 4 active hunters (all with Hunter #'s), however, not all choose to hunt each year. Putting in as a shared group does, however, give each individual a better opportunity to hunt and provide food for family. Having your family attain their hunter #'s would provide you the same opportunity. My application has no more of an opportunity to be drawn as the next, but the whole point of the shared hunts is to provide a hunting opportunity that was not available previously with single applications. Instead of 1 tag 1 opportunity, we have 1 tag 2 opportunities, or 2 tags 3/4 opportunities. Therefore, at minimum shared hunts could provide at least 50% more opportunity and potentially 100% more opportunity.


This being said, for shared hunts to be taking opportunity away from single applicants or other applicants, that group or single application hunts did not, the # of people applying for the hunts would have to increase by at least 50%. I do not believe that there has been an increase in LEH applications for moose hunts of greater than 50% since shared hunts were introduced. If anyone could produce the draw odds from the last year of single LEH application and compare them to last years draw odds I think that you would see an increase in the odds (better chance of drawing).

[shortroot]

Every one is entitled to there opinion http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.


That is exactly right '47. :wink:

That is why public forumns are great for those that can control their anger. :D It brings about great discussion!!!!! I love your posts and '47, you never fly of the handle. :-)

[hunter1947]

I have not tried to figure out the number of hunters that have put in for a shared hunt for moose or others ,then the party gets picked and one or two don't buy a tag for that species to hunt it ,has anyone got any ideas on this :roll: ???.

[rocksteady]

Here is the answer I got back from one of the CO's.....Seems pretty clear now....

"If you put in for the shared hunt and get drawn you only require a tag if you go out on the hunt. If you assist in any way in the field, even by hunting in the same locale as the group you need a tag. Because you entered into a group hunt we expect each group member to have a tag unless he/she can satisfy us that they have no interest in moose hunting. If by example you went out after the moose was killed to help drag it out and you were part of the group entry you need a tag even though the moose is already dead. The bottom line is buy the tag before the season starts and then there are no concerns."

[MOWITCH SLAYER]

It's Good To See A Few People Read The Reg's. It's All There Just Read!!!!!!

[Gateholio]

$25.00

:lol:;-)

[hunter1947]

Here is the answer I got back from one of the CO's.....Seems pretty clear now....

"If you put in for the shared hunt and get drawn you only require a tag if you go out on the hunt. If you assist in any way in the field, even by hunting in the same locale as the group you need a tag. Because you entered into a group hunt we expect each group member to have a tag unless he/she can satisfy us that they have no interest in moose hunting. If by example you went out after the moose was killed to help drag it out and you were part of the group entry you need a tag even though the moose is already dead. The bottom line is buy the tag before the season starts and then there are no concerns."

Mike so this means that If I or someone else is part of the shared draw.

I or they don't wish to hunt out in the hunting field went on the hunt and stayed in camp not assist in any way to retrieve the animal I would not need a tag ,correct.

[rocksteady]

I am assuming that is the way this particular CO is interpreting it Wayne.

I agree that the wording is open to some interpretation, and if you read the quote from the CO he is basically saying as others have said "buy the tag and don't worry about it".

I am assuming that the wording has changed due to some difficulties in the past. Thats why a lot of legislation gets built, because people find "loopholes" to get around it.

[rocksteady]

It's Good To See A Few People Read The Reg's. It's All There Just Read!!!!!!

Most regulations, of any kind, are open to interpretaton and Officer discretion. Just ask any RCMP, City Police, CO or other Law Enforcement Officer......


Some of our members, like LEO, would see it as black and white, whereas others would say maybe its a little more gray....

[boxhitch]

Because you entered into a group hunt we expect each group member to have a tag unless he/she can satisfy us that they have no interest in moose hunting.



I or they don't wish to hunt out in the hunting field went on the hunt and stayed in camp not assist in any way to retrieve the animal.......
It doesn't matter what we think. Black and white, its what the C/O thinks at the time. Good luck with the test.

[mcrae]

Hunter1947 I would say just buy the tag because that is exactly what we got checked for in my story at the beginning of this thread. They CO's were looking to see that everyone that was part of the group and in camp had a moose tag. I agree that its a bit confusing but from my experience in the field the explanation rocksteady received is how the CO's interpret the regulation and I think it would be a hard sell to convince them somebody is in a moose hunting camp but will have no involvement with the hunt...

[hunter1947]

Hunter1947 I would say just buy the tag because that is exactly what we got checked for in my story at the beginning of this thread. They CO's were looking to see that everyone that was part of the group and in camp had a moose tag. I agree that its a bit confusing but from my experience in the field the explanation rocksteady received is how the CO's interpret the regulation and I think it would be a hard sell to convince them somebody is in a moose hunting camp but will have no involvement with the hunt...

O ,I would buy a tag ,don't get me wrong.


I just wanted to find out if you all need a tag on a shared hunt that it stated on page 4 in the LEH regs.

And the answer I got back from the the LEH management that makes 2008-2009 synopsis out said that not all under certain conditions ,if no one believes me phone and talk to Ian Lesson the person that makes the LEH Synopsis on Jutland RD Victoria BC.

He will tell you the same thing he told me ,you ALL don't need a moose tag on a shared hunt under certain conditions when applied.

Number is 1-250-356 5142. http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.