Mulie Bucks love those Whitie Does???

[blackbart]

At some point in the future SSSSter is going to post a few photo's for me. I am sure that they will get some of the historic debate from this forum fired up again.

For your reference, said photo's were taken by myself on June 2, 2008. I am sure that some of the experts here will be able to provide an opinion (after all everyone has one).

[Derek_Erickson]

Could it be a hybrid thread? :)

http://www.freakingnews.com/Pictures/1/Hybrid-Animals.jpg

[Kody94]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/June408003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/June408004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/June408004_a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/Staggerino/June408009.jpg

[bighornbob]

And those photos are supposed to say what? Looks like two whities. One has extra a darker tail on the outside, bigdeal.

Even if it was a mulie it could be just a whitie doe picked up a orphaned mulie fawn or vice versa. Still means nothing.

BHB

[Elkaholic]

And those photos are supposed to say what? Looks like two whities. One has extra a darker tail on the outside, bigdeal.

Even if it was a mulie it could be just a whitie doe picked up a orphaned mulie fawn or vice versa. Still means nothing.

BHB


So you are saying (pretty rudely) that there are never any hybrids?? Stating your opinion is one thing nobody said you have to be a a$$ about it.

[BCrams]

I see 2 white-tailed deer. Nothing strange about having a darker tail on a whitey. I have seen pictures with darker tails from white-tails in Pennsylvania and there are no muleys there. Just like antler configuration .. you can get differences and in this case its just different shades ... can be anywhere from light tan to almost all dark on the outside...

[Vansmasher]

definitely two whitetails in the photo's, IMO these are not hybrids....the one is just a bit darker on the tail, the tail is still quite wide like a typical WT not slender like most mulies. I would say that hybrids definitely exist though.

Just because someone happens to think they may be hybrids or just wants to start a thread and discussion doesn't mean you have to rudely tell them you differ 'bighorn', just give an opinion on hybrids.....'big deal', 'still means nothing' WTF is that.

Cools pics BTW

[Jetboater]

2 whities for me

[rocksteady]

Years ago I was up high elk hunting, did not get one..On the way out saw a herd of mulies across a bowl...Did about a 45 minute super stalk. When I got within range, saw one small buck in velvet. Head shot to the back of the skull at 150 yards (bipod and huge flat rock for rest)....Wandered over, rolled over the buck to gut him....Whitetail:shock::shock:

At least it was no contravention, both bucks any size were open, so whew!!! The buck was running with mulie does at over 7000 feet...Was a good eater too...

[bighornbob]

So you are saying (pretty rudely) that there are never any hybrids?? Stating your opinion is one thing nobody said you have to be a a$$ about it.

If I was saying it rudely I would have said " Hey Dips**t, those are two whities, maybe one should take CORE over again" That would have been rude and my post was no where near that.

I was just getting at the fact that every year there are guys that are trying to prove they have seen a hybrid and that they are in fact quite common. Even when guys post quotes from experts that have studied deer for decades refuting that hybrids are a rare occurence and most dont survive past a few months, there are still guys saying that their dad saw one.


The thread title even says that. I could start my own thread that says "Moose love those whitetails" and post the following picture
http://www.myfishingpictures.com/data/500/aa1004harvey2.jpg

Obviuosly we have a moose/whitetail hybrid becuase it has palmation. Oh if anyone wants to know the deer was shot in Clearwater:tongue:

BHB

[sawmill]

Jesus,you`re a diplomatic bugger ain`t ya! Bad day at the orifice?:shock:

[Twobucks]

I don't know about hybrids -- but twice in Saskatchewan I've seen Mulie bucks following whitetail does like they mean it. I don't know about here in BC (I live on the Island where we've only got one flavour of deer) but out on the Prairie, I don't assume the buck tailing a group of does is the same species.

And I don't know about that deer in the photo -- going by tail alone I wouldn't shoot it in doe season. The tail says mulie to me and the face says whitetail. The tail has a black tip and a smaller, but present, creamy patch around the arse. It's close enough that I wouldn't want to argue with a CO about it.

[BiG Boar]

I would say it looks like a hybrid for sure. I mean if you think about it, lets say you see a blonde bombshell, however you are dark haired. Do you give chase? Heck yes you do. And thats the bottom line cuz bigbore14 said so!

[guest]

WOW !
I gues BHB, is an authority on deer now, maybe he should look into Deer hybrids more from a biologists point of view. He could not be more incorrect, they are more common then one thinks and live well into maturity rather then only a few months. He should read a book on deer from Valaries Giest ( spelling may be wrong ), it talks in detail on the subject of hybrids. In BHB's opinion...he's absolutely right....in his opinion.
Thanks for the pic's Blackbart and SSSSter.
Thay maybe hybrids or may not be, I'm not one to tell, some people are just rude.

[GoatGuy]

He could not be more incorrect, they are more common then one thinks and live well into maturity rather then only a few months. He should read a book on deer from Valaries Giest ( spelling may be wrong ), it talks in detail on the subject of hybrids.

Geist isn't the only one who's study/theorized about them.

Lingle also studied them (and a couple researchers in the states) and actually put some great research together in Alberta . Her research was conducted in a controlled setting which is ideal for research. Her findings do not support what you've got and Geists theory/research doesn't either, really (re: hybrids living to maturity in the wild - unlikely to happen very often). (Lingle did her research at UofC as well).

There's several issues with hybrids, many of which I'm sure have been discussed on here before.

There have also been several deer submitted as hybrids in states/provinces and they're seldom to never true hybrids. Some stuff out of the states on dna tasting have supported that while a couple studies in Texas suggest there may be more hybrids running around (close to 5% in some spots but this should not be considered the norm). While they do exist, statistically most hunters will never see one, much less harvest one. The tail and ears are not good indicators. Geist also theorized that wt's wouldn't be able to keep up in mountainous terrain and that would be the last strong-hold for mule deer.

In any case hybrids don't really have the tools to survive in the wild for any duration, although statistically it will happen (someone has to win the 649).

[horshur]

I've watched a whitetail buck breed a mulie doe...couldn't tell yah whether they became parents or not but she was standing for him and in that particular area there are suspicous looking deer with similiar tails....

Oh yah..I would add that this particular buck was a damn nice deer so big I did not realize what he really was until that white tail of his lifted...I had already filled my mulie tag.

[todbartell]

here's a pic taken near Lytton

http://usera.imagecave.com/ws6/Lytton2.JPG

[Vansmasher]

I'll say.... two mulies..

[todbartell]

sure is a funny lookin' tail on that one mulie :)

[BiG Boar]

see more evidence that hybrids are out there. No question in my mind, that is a hybrid. I call them whoolies! I applied for them in the LEH this year. They are only giving out 43 tags in my area though. So odds are I wont get one. BTW whoolies look like they would taste delicious.

[Vansmasher]

sure is a funny lookin' tail on that one mulie :)
Yeah.... overall she's got less white on her ass too, tough one. Did you take the picture bartell?? Did you see the flag come up??

[todbartell]

yeah I took it. Dont recall a flag coming up, but if that deer is a cross, it's between a blacktail and a mulie

[Vansmasher]

Yeah .... pretty tough to argue that one, I didn't originally think of a black-tail (mostly because I'm not familiar with them), however I just did some quick research on them. The doe's tail definitely has black-tail characteristics.

[winbuckhunter]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/photos/data/500/mulie_whitetail_cross.jpg

explain this one.... picture taken outside Vernon BC a few years ago.. looks to me like a whitey/muley cross.

[sawmill]

Puleese .......mulie....next photo?

[winbuckhunter]

you EVER seen a mulie with an ass like that??? its all brown.. the way you spot mulie from a distance is from their white asses.. sawmill you should take your core again

[winbuckhunter]

and mulies have dark brown/chocolate antlers

[sawmill]

Puleese .......mulie....next photo?

Whoops........Yer right,HYBRED.Little ears too.

[sawmill]

and mulies have dark brown/chocolate antlers
No they have antlers the colour of whatever they rub them on.Some trees darken the rack because of the sap and some impart very little stain.I have chocolate brown racks and damn near white ones taken from different areas.They all start out pale at first.

[BiG Boar]

Definitley another hybrid. A woolie for sure.

[Dannybuoy]

good pic winbuckhunter ... it would have been nice to have gotten a pic of the flag tail up as well

[blackbart]

Anyone on this site interested in doing their Phd in Wildlife Biology? I do believe that there is potential for some interesting research regarding cross-breeding in those areas of BC where whitetail deer are just now overlapping with traditional mule deer range.

The previous photo's were taken very near to my home. Whitetails have shown up only in the past decade, and only in relativly small numbers and in isolated areas.

The fawn in the photo's did not exhibit either stotting or flagging as a defence mechanism. The doe flagged fairly quickly when disturbed (as I tried to show in the photo's)

Regardless of personal opion on the subject of hybrids (only DNA testing would be conclusive) I am happy to see some conversation around the subject of hybrids that is more intelligent than previous threads.

BHB - most folks thought that the world was flat at one time. If memory serves correct some folks even got themselves killed for challenging that thought.

[hunter1947]

No they have antlers the colour of whatever they rub them on.Some trees darken the rack because of the sap and some impart very little stain.I have chocolate brown racks and damn near white ones taken from different areas.They all start out pale at first.
Sawmill you are correct with your statement.