atv and Forest Service

[Fido]

Well folks the wife and I were out atving today around Loon Lake and we ran into the Forest Service guy, and he informed us that they will have a big push on this year for people with in insurance on there atv. I want to know if I buy insur what does that give me. Or is just away to get more money from us.The other thing who gains from me having insurance. So what does every one think. Thanks for your time.:-(

[MIL720]

Not sure.I will be paying close attn. to this thread.Sorry i can't help ya.I have a buddy in the insurance industry , I'll ask him about it.

[OOBuck]

Well folks the wife and I were out atving today around Loon Lake and we ran into the Forest Service guy, and he informed us that they will have a big push on this year for people with in insurance on there atv. I want to know if I buy insur what does that give me. Or is just away to get more money from us.The other thing who gains from me having insurance. So what does every one think. Thanks for your time.:-(


Have you thought about taking up a job in an explosive factory and becoming a chain smoker?? Not a good topic.. Very different opinions on here. I personally don't have it, others do.

[MDG3]

I heard if you are a BCWF member it covers for insurance on logging roads with ATV's. I'm not sure if that is fact though. I would ask. I'm not a member yet.:|

[slowkey]

I think their looking for 3rd person liability insurance. so a BCWF membership will cover that. Called ICBC in 06 when I got my atv and they don't insure quads for FSRs. If your on paved then you need something like what golf carts need when they cross the roads.
Checked on private insurance last year for theft........ well the costs for that are just whacked

[Fisher-Dude]

BCWF covers you for the mandatory 3rd party liability on a FSR, but you MUST be huntin' or fishin'. They don't cover joy-riding (the costs would be astronomical).

[srupp]

Fisher Dude..where did you get that info on BCWF???and WHO??

Nobody @ BCWF seems to want to get up and say YEA or Nay..

I have BCWF through our Rod and gun club..

Steven

[Vader]

info was in the coverage documentation that they usually send you when you sign up.. gives the limititations etc that you are covered for and what is or not covered. Haven't got my paperwork yet.. so I don't know if this year is same as last or not.

[Fisher-Dude]

Fisher Dude..where did you get that info on BCWF???and WHO??

Nobody @ BCWF seems to want to get up and say YEA or Nay..

I have BCWF through our Rod and gun club..

Steven

Here ya go:

http://www.bcwf.bc.ca/committees/membership/insurance.html

[srupp]

Thanks Fisher Dude...appreciate the quick and exellent information..

Cheers

Steven

[kleth2000]

http://www.capri.ca/insurancepages/associationpages/atvbc.asp

$125 third party liability
You can buy online

[boxhitch]

ATV/Cycle clubs should have something available to members also ?

[Fido]

Well just looked at Capri site and not happy the cost for Basic Perils is $287 I take that for the year, now if you want comp it's350 and all perils is 400 now does that give me the right to drive any where or just on fsr roads just need to know.

[gearjunkierob]

Here is some info on Liability Insurance on Forest Service Roads from the Forest Service Road use Regulation:

Liability insurance

12 (1) A person must not operate or cause to be operated a motor vehicle or trailer, on a forest service road unless
(a) the driver, motor vehicle and trailer are insured under a valid and subsisting contract of accident insurance providing insurance against liability to third parties in the amount of at least $200 000, and
(b) the driver carries written evidence, supplied by the insurer, of the insurance referred to in paragraph (a), or a copy of that written evidence, and produces it, on demand, to a peace officer or an official.
(2) Motor vehicles operated by the government that are subject to a government self-indemnification plan are exempt from the requirements of subsection (1).
[am. B.C. Reg. 354/2004, Sch. B, s. 2.]

And here is the fine associated with the offence from the Violation and Ticket Administration:

section 12 (1)Use forest service road without required insurance$345


So what does the insurance get you? Well, I guess it allows you to travel on the roads, and it also covers you should you fly around a corner, crash into somebody and are held "liable" for your actions in court - although the $200 000 is really not much money in the big picture.

There is also some info in the All Terrain Vehicle act, but I was told (for some funny reason) that the ATV act actually only applies to snowmobiles....strange.

Rob

[Fido]

Thanks for the info now lets find the cheapist coverage. Hope I didn't ruff any feathers. But I still think it stinks, if I have insur then I can drive on all roads.

[slowkey]

to be honest your probably get a half dozen different responses from Co's and the RCMP.

Lets just hope they don't start making us put plates on. I really don't want to deal with ICBC and plus they make a mess of it

[Jagermeister]

By being a member in an ATV club that is affiliated to ATV/BC will entitle you to a discounted rate on insurance through Oasis.
Capri used to supply ATV/BC members with insurance, but there was an issue with their coverage and they were dropped in favor of Oasis.
My 3rd party liability cost $125 for $300,000.
If you have taken the CSC ATV Safety course, then there is a further 10% reduction.
ATV/BC members can take the CSC course for $65, non-members will pay in excess of $100 and this may climb to $300, depending on who is giving it.
Worksafe, WCB, Forestry and RCMP require their staff that operate ATVs to complete the course. The cost for these entities costs the respective government about $500, which we pay for.
So now all you have to do is find a broker that carries Oasis, you likely will find a link on ATV/BC's website.

[Jagermeister]

I should have mentioned, plates will be in your future. BC is the dumping ground for stolen ATV's because their is no visable means needed for identifying what you ride. The CO's, RCMP (if they get out into the backwoods) and Forestry people will have the means to tag you without insurance and you must have a valid dirver's licence to drive FSRs. The other issue is leaving a heavy footprint, someone scarring the hinterland is going to get tagged with a hefty fine if caught, just to be made an example of and that could go as high as $100,000.

[hunter1947]

I try and keep off the forest service road ,I work the quad on back spur roads ,I have not had any problems so far.

[Walksalot]

Liability insurance is a must in this day and age. All is well until you have an accident and someone launches civil action. It is simply not worth the risk.

[Elkaholic]

I know that if you are a member of RHABC East Kootenay chapter you can purchase the insurance for $125. And it covers any time you are out and about on the ATV.

[Iron Glove]

Go to www.quads.ca (http://www.quads.ca) this topic has been beat to death there.
Has lots of info - a whole section just on ATV Insurance.
As has been said, join a club and get coverage for $125 per ATV. The BCWildlife coverage is not adequate as it does not cover joy riding.
Some may argue about the need for insurance but at $125 its cheap protection. Ever stop to figure out what it will cost you if you whack into someone while joy riding or if you let your buddy joy ride on your machine and they go over a cliff ?
The Capri and Oasis policies differ, check them both out before deciding.

[Fisher-Dude]

Just a note, the back spur roads are also considered in the definition of FSRs and insurance requirements are the same on them as on the main haul roads.

Just be sure you aren't on a gazetted (publicly maintained road) with your quad. If the MoH plows it in the winter (eg Beaver/Dee Lake Road, Postill Lake Road, R201 from 33 to Idabel, etc in the Kelowna area) it can be considered a public, gazetted road. All the 3rd party liability in the world ain't gonna save yer butt from a big nasty ticket there, and God help ya if ya crash into someone. :shock:

[aggiehunter]

BCWF Policy covers you on non-public roads, ie. private land.

[Fisher-Dude]

BCWF Policy covers you on non-public roads, ie. private land.

FSRs are private (ie non-public) roads, and are covered by the BCWF policy while hunting and fishing. Don't make me dig up all the legislation that proves it to be so, as it's been posted many times before.

[aggiehunter]

non-public, "where the general public cannot go". Where in the world can you get liability insurance to cover a quad on any non-gazetted road for about $4, no where. I'll leave it at that, good luck with the judge.

[KodiakHntr]

FSRs are private (ie non-public) roads, and are covered by the BCWF policy while hunting and fishing. Don't make me dig up all the legislation that proves it to be so, as it's been posted many times before.

I'm going to make you dig it up.

FSR's are NOT PRIVATE. FSR's (or Forest Service Roads) are owned by the government (the FOREST SERVICE). Hence, owned by the PUBLIC. They may or may not be maintained by the MOF, or MOTH.

[srupp]

Fisher Dude...can you PLEASE re-post it..

Steven

[Bowzone_Mikey]

actually FSR are privatly maintained by the leaseholders .... therfore they are private roads ....

I dont see what the big deal is ... if your gonna play ..be prepared to pay ... PLPD is basic insurance ... Public Liability public damage .... thats all you need for touring public land .... it covers your ass if you hit someone on a seismec line or cut line or alike. ICBC wont cover ... but ING will along with most every other insurance company out there ....

Ask your broker for PLPD on your quad ....if they dont know what PLPD is then get another broker because they are ******ed

[Blktail]

I too have looked into the insurance for quads. I believe it is a good thing, but there is one HUGE detail that everybody needs to know about.

The insurance is void if you are not wearing a helmet or if you have a passenger on a one person machine.

I read this to mean that if you are the cause of an accident and you are not wearing a helmet or you have a passenger when you should not, then you are not covered, even if the person that sues is not your passenger.

I may stand to be corrected, but I would check the fine print!

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm going to make you dig it up.

FSR's are NOT PRIVATE. FSR's (or Forest Service Roads) are owned by the government (the FOREST SERVICE). Hence, owned by the PUBLIC. They may or may not be maintained by the MOF, or MOTH.

Geesh. Here it is from F&RP Act:


Not a public highway 24
Despite section 42 of the Transportation Act, a road constructed or maintained under this Act, the Forest Act, the former Act as defined in section 1 of the Forest Act or the Forest Practices Code of British Columbia Act is not a public highway unless the Lieutenant Governor in Council declares it to be by an order in council that he or she may make under this Act.

And, from the Motor Vehicle Act:

"highway" includes
(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,
(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles, and
(c) every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited,
but does not include an industrial road;

"industrial road" means industrial road as defined in the Industrial Roads Act, and includes a forest service road as defined in the Forest Act and land designated as a development road under section 8 (1) of the Petroleum and Natural Gas Act;

[Bullmoose]

I think you're going to see a lot more interest in FSR's, there's an article in todays Times Colonist suggesting the Gov't is looking at combining the five sets of regs. covering FSR's into one package and making changes to enhance safety.

[chinooker]

I say just ride!!! watch where the hell your going,don't run in to someone and take responsibility for your own actions.:smile:

[aggiehunter]

The BCWF Insurance says non-public road not non-public highway. So I urge someone to find a road that they travel, get its designation and send it to the BCWF Insuance provider. Get it in writing. I'll stick with my $125 a year policy, $4 is a pint.

[Fisher-Dude]

The BCWF Insurance says non-public road not non-public highway. So I urge someone to find a road that they travel, get its designation and send it to the BCWF Insuance provider. Get it in writing. I'll stick with my $125 a year policy, $4 is a pint.

Have fun! :grin: I'll put the $121 I save towards the fuel I'll burn all year in my quad and have the same insurance coverage that you do, verified as sufficient for FSRs by the COs here.

After all, it's all about choice, isn't it? :wink:

[srupp]

Thanks Fisher -Dude..APPRECIATE it.

Steven

[KodiakHntr]

Big difference between a highway, and a FSR.

The idea behind that particular piece of legislation is to prevent people from trying to get the gov't to maintain bush roads year round so they can access stuff.
ie, to keep them from making a legal arguement that the temp road a licencee put in a winter block that goes past a lake is a highway that has to be maintained year round, so they have access to the lake.

As we have been through this a bunch before, I'll try to keep from getting too involved with it this time.

Short and sweet cliff notes version (some exceptions may apply)
any road that has a big fancy sign at the start, that has the letters FSR behind the road name, is owned and maintained (through agreements with any and all licence holders who use that particular road, even if it may not look like it from the outside) by the MOF. The MOF is a public corporation, who's assets are publicly held. These assets include FSR's.

[hunter1947]

I'm willing to take my chances without insurance on my quad ,the few times I do use the quad when hunting is usually way back into no mans country and the road are almost unusable for any 4x4 truck. I don't get on the quad and start driving it down a main logging road ,thats just asking for trouble.

[aggiehunter]

Just tell 'em Fisher-Dude said..

[browningboy]

I'm willing to take my chances without insurance on my quad ,the few times I do use the quad when hunting is usually way back into no mans country and the road are almost unusable for any 4x4 truck. I don't get on the quad and start driving it down a main logging road ,thats just asking for trouble.


X2, but I guess I'll have to keep my double beer holding helmut a little low for a while!

The thing I say that it should be defined much more clear and if they are really enforcing it, put some type of notification out there (pamplets at insurance brokers, in the local paper etc.) and spell it out clearly! No one should have to second guess all this crap, it's either or, if they want them to have insurance, make them put a damn plate on it like other provinces or just shut up as people aren't going out of their way to ask.

[KodiakHntr]

I believe its been in the Hunting Synopsis for the last few years now...
And was in local papers, and the BC Gazette, etc. So the gov't has covered its bases in regards to advertising it, just not enforcing it.

[browningboy]

I believe its been in the Hunting Synopsis for the last few years now...
And was in local papers, and the BC Gazette, etc. So the gov't has covered its bases in regards to advertising it, just not enforcing it.

What I'm getting at is the hunters generally know something about it, but I know down here in the lower toilet, you really don't hear anything about it, I know of many riders that aren't "hunters" but enjoy the outdoors that are quite unaware of it.

Alls I'm saying if they truely are wanting to have sometype of insurance and are serious, make you put a plate on it, once people are visible to that, they will notice plus it will "calm" down stolen ATV's as BC is a dumping ground for hot quads (have to register), the only crappy thing it just seems like once again the noose is tightening around our freedom.

[Fisher-Dude]

Registration will do squat for stolen ATVs. Snowmobiles have been registered for 30 years and they are stolen all the time. Our gov't is stupid enough to hand a "home built" registration sticker to any crook who rebuilds a stolen machine on a custom chassis, and the cops are too dumb to check engine serial numbers. New tunnel or frame, gov't gives you a sticker, and your stolen machine is legal to go. What a system! :icon_frow

By the way, FSRs are NOT classified as public roads, even though the public is free to use them. Don't confuse "public use" with "public designation" in the Act.

[aggiehunter]

FD, Don't confuse the happy situation of paying $4 for liability with the BCWF with the reality that no Insurance company on the planet will cover you for liability for that measly amount. No company. Get your fine, take it to court with your cert. from the carriers of the BCWF Insurance company and see how you do. In reality that's the only way all of us will ever know. I'm just not prepared to be the guinea pig on that one so I will spend the extra $121 and feel good when I get stopped by a Forest Practice Cop (not a CO), or worst case scenario run over a happy shrubbie.

[Fisher-Dude]

I'm much less concerned with having to draw on the insurance for a claim against me than I am about meeting the F&RP Act requirements for driving a quad on an FSR. The COs here are all personal friends of mine, and have confirmed the validity of the BCWF membership insurance for me. Those same COs would gladly accompany me to court if some eager beaver FT3 thinks he can prove otherwise, which he can't.

[browningboy]

Registration will do squat for stolen ATVs. Snowmobiles have been registered for 30 years and they are stolen all the time. Our gov't is stupid enough to hand a "home built" registration sticker to any crook who rebuilds a stolen machine on a custom chassis, and the cops are too dumb to check engine serial numbers. New tunnel or frame, gov't gives you a sticker, and your stolen machine is legal to go. What a system! :icon_frow

By the way, FSRs are NOT classified as public roads, even though the public is free to use them. Don't confuse "public use" with "public designation" in the Act.

Yes true, but will be better than nothing, but my main point was if they were all had to be registered, people would know to get liability insurance and what is expected.

[kgriz]

Hey Fisher-dude, I would update your opinion of the "eager-beaver" FT3 comments vs CO's; the word is strongly in the wind that they will soon be practically riding in the same trucks in the near future due to government re-structuring and budgeting re-orgs combining the powers of the different braches; MOF, MOE etc.! The C and E guys in the MOF may soon be handing out the same tickets as the CO's soon but I havn't heard what their full capacity might be. Kind of a scary thought in some districts I might say.

[Fido]

Ok one more ? what powers does a Forestery Person have. Do they have the right to stop anyone on a FSR or not.

[dino]

Just go south of the border .They are only allowed to ride in recreation parks and have to have tags"plates".

[Mauser98]

Ok one more ? what powers does a Forestery Person have. Do they have the right to stop anyone on a FSR or not.

Not just on an FSR.

From The Forest and Range Practices Act.


Inspection of vehicle or vessel

60 For any purpose related to the administration and enforcement of the Acts, an official or a peace officer may
(a) require a person operating a vehicle or vessel to stop the vehicle or vessel, and
(b) carry out an inspection of a vehicle or vessel,
if the official or peace officer has reasonable grounds to believe that
(c) the vehicle or vessel contains or is transporting timber, special forest products, seed, botanical forest products or hay, or
(d) a person is contravening or has contravened one or more provisions of the Acts.

Obligation of person inspected

63 (1) The operator of a vehicle or vessel must stop the vehicle or vessel when required to do so by
(a) a peace officer, or
(b) an official referred to in section 60
who
(c) is in uniform,
(d) displays his or her official badge, or
(e) is in or near a vehicle or vessel that is readily identifiable as a government vehicle or vessel.

And rom the offense Act


section 63 (1) Fail to stop vehicle or vessel $150 $23 $173

[cwocarsten]

I bought insurance through Capri Ins for my Yamaha Grizzly 700. It was $600.00 for fire, theft, liability, etc.

[chola]

I have the ICBC Liability,was $270 for the year...Capri is gonna be $560 for everything....I'm not sure if it's Oasis or Capri that has a start date and end date in May...
I wish it would start from the day ya bought it,just like regular vehicle insurance.

I also think that if it is mandatory,make it widely known to every body,not some little ad in the hunting regs or a 2 second clip on the radio..

I heard it was mandatory,then some say it's not..I said ta hell with it and got it anyway,better off to be safe than sorry

[srupp]

$$$$$ grab...IF ya gotta insure it ya gotta be able to ride it ANYWHERE..

my .02

steven

[Bowzone_Mikey]

Just go south of the border .They are only allowed to ride in recreation parks and have to have tags"plates".
You are half right ...yes in Wash, Idaho and Oregon quads must be registered and insured ... with Licence plates ... just like the ones on the back of our trucks .... but they are allowed to to ride in designated / approved land use zones not Rec Parks only ... Rec parks usually require another decal for your ride .. Like Oregons ...its like 20 bucks for the year .. and the moneys received go into maintaining the area .... Alberta is the exact same way ... all quads on crown land must have current licence plates and current insurance except for the Rec Parks ...other than Alberta Safari OHV park ...whitch is a privateer with a bunch of land that he built to wheel on.

Also Insurance rates vary greatly on the size of machine you got ... the cut off is 500 cc ... and thats the model name not the actual displacement like a 500 would be actually 483 cc but a 450 would actually be 460 cc ... the 450 model would be alot cheaper to insure ..... kinda makes you think about a Banshee huh ... 300 cc 2 stroke ...stupid power and speed