huntin regs need some changes?

[ROEBUCK]

this is my 3rd year as a bc resident now. I absolutely love this province as much if not more than my home country. I love the hunting and fishing opertunaties we all share here, but i cant grasp some of the consepts in the regs for example the four point buck season or the six point elk season or the five point caribou season it doesant seem like good game management, hunting all the prime breeding stock, i know giving a more liberal season could mean more animals killed,but would probably mean less prime bucks/bulls being killed which means better breedin stock.It would also encourage more new hunters,the die hard trophy hunters would still be able to chase their trophies. Also to encourage new hunters not to lose interest why not let hunters within 12 months of completing their core hunting test hunt 1 doe in the fall season to give them some first time success. This is 1 mans opinion please dont lynch me if you dont agree

[Blainer]

I'm all for the 4 point season.
There would'nt be many 4 points if we were to harvest all the spikes and two points.I personally like to be selective about the 4 points that I harvest as well.

[Gateholio]

Check out some of the elk threads, the 6pt seasons are in hot debate...

[guest]

Managing all species is a science. We all may not agree with some of the decisions made by regional biologists but I firmly believe they are trying their best to do the right things trying to keep all in mind. There are plenty of open seasons to hunt in many different areas of the province for many species. If your new here, try to find people that can help you out that you can trust. Try calling a C/O or game manager in the area of interest. There are plenty of meat class animals out there along with many trophy class animals that usually are found in the harder to get at places that WILL require you to do your homework. I think BC offers it all, great fishing, great hunting, great outdoor experiences...it's more the government of the day that I worry about our future than the wildlife managers. Again...just one guys opinion.
C/T

[Paulyman]

I see what you mean about giving new hunters a chance for success early on in their hunting careers by giving them a doe draw.Once i got my first deer under my belt i was hooked! I have been hunting for 10 years now and regret not starting earlier.

[7mmag]

For me it's about just getting out, so meat in the freezer or a trophy on the wall (I don't have one yet) are just bonuses. I think that if those antler restrictions give me more time or opportunity to hunt then I'm all for them. Having said that, as someone who loves wild meat if the game population can sustain loser antler restrictions without a shorter season then I'm all for that as well.

[hunter1947]

All you can do is send your concerns to the wildlife management program. I have done that a few times over the years ,i just get a fouling letter saying thank you for your concerns etc.

[Seeadler]

I am in favour of giving new hunters "any deer" tags. Some species do need protection from overharvest in many (easily accessable) areas. In other areas that are pack in/fly in only, it could easily be "any" moose, elk, deer, goat. Maybe get rid of antlerless deer LEH altogether and let the Jr/Sr set hunt them all season. In many areas in Alberta, November is an any whitetail season for everyone, and we all know that WT hunting sucks in Alberta.

Other ideas that I think are worthy would be the either (not both) elk or moose rule. Relax the regs and LEH, but you can only hunt one or the other in a year. Co-ordinate seasons in as many areas as possible too, so that pressure is spread out.

Some changes to the LEH would be a good thing too. IE: Why are areas with 0.2:1 odds on LEH? Or if you apply for bison or sheep tags in the LEH, you can't apply for anything else.

In my opinion, success (via regulation) and tags (via LEH) should be spread out to as many hunters as possible. If applying for a Cali or Phillips Creek sheep tag means I can't put in for moose or cow elk, so be it, I then have a choice to make.

There needs to be as much certainty as possible in the system so that people can plan trips with family and friends, book time off in advance, etc.

[johnes50]

I think, in general, wildlife biologists and managers do the best they can under the conditions imposed on them. And they can never be right for everybody.

They're between a rock and a hard place most of the time. Guides want more tags, natives want more game, resident hunters want more LEH tags and open seasons, antis want all hunting stopped and politicians want to interfere.

[Tinney]

There is a reason for a 6pt elk season and it's based on the theory that the big (6pt or better) herd bulls get so worn out from defending their harems from the satellite bulls that they will not make it through the winter. Therefore, allow hunters to harvest them.
5pt caribou....to my understanding, it doesn't take very long for a caribou to gain 5pts up top, and pressure on them is fairly low comparatively.
4pt mulies.......lots of debate there. But in the PG region, not a lot of big mulies unless you really know where to look. Fairly low pressure 4pt season compared to 3,5,7B.
7A is in good shape as far as seasons go.

[Thunderstix]

Or if you apply for bison or sheep tags in the LEH, you can't apply for anything else.
:confused::confused::confused:
Have I missed something in the regs????? Please don't tell me that all these years I should not have been applying for everything even when applying for Bison, and that you have not been applying for anything else when applying for Bison.:shock:

[Seeadler]

:confused::confused::confused:
Have I missed something in the regs????? Please don't tell me that all these years I should not have been applying for everything even when applying for Bison, and that you have not been applying for anything else when applying for Bison.:shock:

No, you haven't missed something in the regs. Those are just my thoughts on how to improve success in the LEH. I think both meat and trophy hunters would benefit from a change like that. If I had to choose between applying for a moose or a cow elk tag and applying for bison, I would never apply for bison again....increasing the odds for those that really want to pursue bison. And if I had to choose between applying for moose and sheep, I would probably go for the sheep, taking me out of the running for a moose tag, improving the odds for others.

[Thunderstix]

Ah, gotcha! I thought you meant it was already like that! Doh!

[GoatGuy]

There is a reason for a 6pt elk season and it's based on the theory that the big (6pt or better) herd bulls get so worn out from defending their harems from the satellite bulls that they will not make it through the winter. Therefore, allow hunters to harvest them.
5pt caribou....to my understanding, it doesn't take very long for a caribou to gain 5pts up top, and pressure on them is fairly low comparatively.
4pt mulies.......lots of debate there. But in the PG region, not a lot of big mulies unless you really know where to look. Fairly low pressure 4pt season compared to 3,5,7B.
7A is in good shape as far as seasons go.


Sources for any of this?

[outdoorsman812]

region 7b has a limited entry calf moose draw for anyone under 19, and the odds are excellent

[BCrams]

There is a reason for a 6pt elk season and it's based on the theory that the big (6pt or better) herd bulls get so worn out from defending their harems from the satellite bulls that they will not make it through the winter. Therefore, allow hunters to harvest them.

Enlighten us and tell us where you received this information from.

5pt caribou....to my understanding, it doesn't take very long for a caribou to gain 5pts up top, and pressure on them is fairly low comparatively.

This one too....

4pt mulies.......lots of debate there. But in the PG region, not a lot of big mulies unless you really know where to look.

And this !!!!!



............

[Tinney]

My source is random campfire BS with some retired bios :-P

Haven't you had your fill of me yet rams :twisted:

[hunter1947]

I think it would be a good idea to have a new hunter that had just completed his or her hunting core ,then be able to shoot a flat top. As long as it is in a region were the doe ratio is way out of whack and needs thinning out.

[ROM]

I'm a former albertain too and agree that some changes to the regs would simplify them and enhance hunter experience. Particularly:

1) accumulate draw priority. Makes for a fairer system and better planning.

2) don't change the points required mid season. The regs are comlicated enough without multiple changes in anlter size during a season.

3) I love the otion of any deer for first time hunter. That should be a slam dunk.

4) Not that I care with a 300, but is the minimum calibre a little low for deer? I read any centrefire. Is that right? including a .17 fireball?

[TIKA 300]

I think, in general, wildlife biologists and managers do the best they can under the conditions imposed on them. And they can never be right for everybody.

They're between a rock and a hard place most of the time. Guides want more tags, natives want more game, resident hunters want more LEH tags and open seasons, antis want all hunting stopped and politicians want to interfere.


I agree 110%,would you wanna be in their shoes.They are every day shmoes like us,that have their hands bound tighter cuz of the bureaucrats they work for. TK

[GoatGuy]

My source is random campfire BS with some retired bios :-P


Fisheries biologists?

[MattB]

Fisheries biologists? Probably the same guy that told him about the hybrids :smile:

[threedhunter]

if you dig deep enough into our regs you will find that a minimum caliber for big game in rifles is centerfire 24 or larger.it does not show in the synopsis bt it is in the regulations at the moe.must also use on big game if using a shotgun 20 gauge or larger, even with slugs,threedhunter:cool:

[Tinney]

Fisheries biologists?

:p You underestimate my networking abilities son.

[Gateholio]

if you dig deep enough into our regs you will find that a minimum caliber for big game in rifles is centerfire 24 or larger.it does not show in the synopsis bt it is in the regulations at the moe.must also use on big game if using a shotgun 20 gauge or larger, even with slugs,threedhunter:cool:


Casn you provide us with a link/source for this, please?

[Gateholio]

[quote=ROM;261891]I'm a former albertain too and agree that some changes to the regs would simplify them and enhance hunter experience. Particularly:

1) accumulate draw priority. Makes for a fairer system and better planning.


Been lots of discussion abou this. Draw priorities won't work for much of BC....





4) Not that I care with a 300, but is the minimum calibre a little low for deer? I read any centrefire. Is that right? including a .17 fireball

Shot placement trumps ft/lbs:razz:

[GoatGuy]

:p You underestimate my networking abilities son.

Obviously. I can only think of two retired bios with ideas like yours on LEH - they both work for a special interest group and it isn't resident hunters.

Weird, I know.

[Tinney]

Weird that you know all the retired bios in the province :) I don't have idea on LEH, I have been told that about the 6pt elk rule. Nothing more, nothing less. Makes sense to me ???

[BCrams]

Weird that you know all the retired bios in the province :) I don't have idea on LEH, I have been told that about the 6pt elk rule. Nothing more, nothing less. Makes sense to me ???

Your source sounds about as whacked as the guy who told you about the fields of hybrids.:lol:

[Tinney]

Your source sounds about as whacked as the guy who told you about the fields of hybrids.:lol:

What is YOUR opinion of elk management and why we have 6pt seasons? You got something better old boy?

[TimberPig]

One thing that should be changed is the requirement to be 19 to hunt alone in BC. At 18, you can get you PAL and legally own firearms, but not hunt on your own. It was changed when the FAC age limit was raised to 19 from 16 and the hunting alone age followed, but has never changed back since the Firearms Act lowered it back to 18.

[BCrams]

What is YOUR opinion of elk management and why we have 6pt seasons? You got something better old boy?

My opinion:

I believe in maintaining sustainable populations at or below carry capacity based on what the landbase can support. The land base you want to manage from is primarily (but not limited to) available winter range habitat.

6 pt seasons are good to aid the recovery of an elk population. If an elk population is sustainable and can be managed without a 6 pt season, then I am all for it. There will always be some big bulls out there for the hunters who prefer to target 6 pt bulls.

Now based on facts -

The 6 pt season function is primarily to aid in the recovery of an elk population. It has nothing to do with the BS you posted.
This can also be achieved via LEH hunting, closed seasons, or implementing seasons based on low success (i.e., removing rifle hunting opportunities to archery only)

[ROM]

1) min cal = 24. Thanks I appreciate it.
2) lots of discussion does not equal a reasonable and fair system. I'd like to hear a rational that out weighs simplicity and fairness that an accumuted LEH would ensure.

Thanks for your patience.

R

[Gateholio]

E]
1) min cal = 24. Thanks I appreciate it.

Was this actually substantiated?




2) lots of discussion does not equal a reasonable and fair system. I'd like to hear a rational that out weighs simplicity and fairness that an accumuted LEH would ensure.

Do a search, there is plenty of info regarding this specific topic. Try "Ask your LEH questions here"

In short, there are plenty of LEH allocations that if you started applying for when you are 18, you MIGHT get one when you are 60....

We have this conversation with everyone that moves from Alberta.:smile:

[Tinney]

Recovery of an elk population. You mean like harvesting a low number of animals that would likely not survive the winter anyway? :)

[6616]

Recovery of an elk population. You mean like harvesting a low number of animals that would likely not survive the winter anyway? :)

All I can add is that the 6pt elk regulation was initiated in the East Kootenay as a component of a recovery strategy for the purpose of reducing the bull harvest, and had nothing to do with the idea that they were expendable because of a low winter survival rate. Antler regulations on ungulates of all species are in almost all cases for the purpose of reducing the overall harvest rate of the male component of the population.

The winter survival rate of mature bull elk is lower than that of cows, and that is due to energy expenditures and loss of fat reserves during the rut, just like Tinney says, but overall surivial of mature bulls is still quite high in normal winter conditions, about 90%. This is evidenced by the high number of 300+ bulls being shot. These very big bulls have probably survived several winters by the time they get that big.

The survival rate of mature bulls (80 to 90%) is much higher than that of calves (25 to 60%) and yearlings (40 to 60%), but somewhat lower than that of mature cows (85 to 95%) in average winter conditions.

References:
Elk of North America (Wildlife Management Institute), Toweill and Ward
Harvest Strategies for Elk in BC, Raedeke 1998
East Kootenay Elk Management Plan, Forbes, Bircher and Janz, 2000.