Region 5 Mule Deer

[Timbow]

Has anybody heard of the lastest saga of the moratorium for mule deer?

The latest I have heard (last Sunday) is a complete closure of mule deer bucks for the entire month of November for two years, entire region. Apparently there isn't enough trophy class 4 bucks.

[beeker]

I can't see that happening

[tufferthandug]

I heard no big buck after November 10th region 5. Minimum 2 years.

[Tinney]

All 22 pages of it

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18248&highlight=mule+deer+region

I believe the actual regulation change is on pg 19.

I'm all for it

[BCrams]

All 22 pages of it

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18248&highlight=mule+deer+region

I believe the actual regulation change is on pg 19.

I'm all for it

Can you explain why you are all for it?

Do you think there's a better alternate solution? Especially when keeping in mind the provincial mandate to increase hunter opportunity and increase recruitment. I believe there were some suggestions that offer a better solution to the problem than the one they are pushing for without taking away hunting opportunity such as the removal of 10 days.

[mark]

It would be a harsh move for the reg. 5 boys. I for one can verify that the quality of bucks being harvested in the 100 mile area, has been on the decline in the past 3 years.

[Tinney]

Can you explain why you are all for it?

Do you think there's a better alternate solution? Especially when keeping in mind the provincial mandate to increase hunter opportunity and increase recruitment. I believe there were some suggestions that offer a better solution to the problem than the one they are pushing for without taking away hunting opportunity such as the removal of 10 days.

I know better than to answer this, but what the heck :p

I like the idea of the moratorium because it should bring the buck numbers back in line with the doe numbers. And the only time I saw decent bucks down there this fall was on native land with Matt, clearly a separate entity from the rest of the region. Everywhere else it was nothing but does does does does does. I hunted 5-02 for a total of eight days (not much I realize) and saw five bucks. 3 spikes, a decent 2x2 and a small 3x3. The other 70-odd deer I saw were roundheads. I didn't shoot any of them. Then again, I'm a really crappy deer hunter and I was 2 weeks prior to the rut :razz:
I think the additional doe LEHs will help with recruitment and retention.
If I get that doe LEH, I will be taking a new hunter with me again next fall. Direct addition of one new hunter per year for the last three years for this kid.

[TRACKnTRAIL]

Will natives still be able to shoot bucks at this time?

[frenchbar]

I beleive first nations can hunt any time on their traditional hunting grounds.

[Tinney]

Correct. But I personally believe their harvest does not have a large impact on buck:doe ratios. From what I saw anyway

[Timbow]

All 22 pages of it

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=18248&highlight=mule+deer+region

I believe the actual regulation change is on pg 19.

I'm all for it

Thanks, I've already read it. I was out ice fishing Sunday and I was told that we might lose all of November for two years. I hope it's a rumor. I don't like the idea of the 2 year moratorium proposed.

[frenchbar]

Correct. But I personally believe their harvest does not have a large impact on buck:doe ratios. From what I saw while hunting in Alkali Lake, anyway. I know the bands in my area of reg 3 hunt mainly during the seasons laid out in the regs.not saying that they dont hunt after closed seasons .some will ,most wont.and your probably right that what they do take out of seasons would not make much of a difference in the buck to doe ratio.

[Tinney]

I know the bands in my area of reg 3 hunt mainly during the seasons laid out in the regs.not saying that they dont hunt after closed seasons .some will ,most wont.and your probably right that what they do take out of seasons would not make much of a difference in the buck to doe ratio.

I'm only goin by the impression I got hunting native land. Lots of deer, lots of nice bucks, few hunters. And the native guys I met seemed to be really good guys.

[threedhunter]

so it starts guys, the person now in charge of mwlap recently told employees that hunting is as good as done in bc.mayhap we should all squeel loudly to victoria to our mla to see if the government is serious about our heritage hunting?:eek:

[Tinney]

I heard it on the internet, it must be true

[hunter1947]

I can't see that happening ,I think you just heard a rumor that got out of the sewer.

[boxhitch]

so it starts guys, the person now in charge of mwlap recently told employees that hunting is as good as done in bc.mayhap we should all squeel loudly to victoria to our mla to see if the government is serious about our heritage hunting?:eek:There you go again, repeating some BS someone contrived. The MOE has a mandate contrary to what you speak, so I have to call BS on this comment. Please prove me wrong.

[Tinney]

Let's keep this thread on topic. Hunting in BC is too much of an economical driver to flush down the toilet.

Region 5 deer....

[bruin]

I would agree with Tinney on this, I am very willing to hunt another part of the province or give up a couple of Novembers to maintain population numbers and quality for the future. We can't maintain hunting opportunities in the long term if we don't manage in the short term.

[Tinney]

Everyone will bust their nut hunting elk in region 4 anyway :biggrin:

And don't bother coming to region 7. I can attest to the fact that mule deer are extirpated from region 7.

[tomahawk]

Until there is something written in the Regs its not worth worrying about.

[MattB]

Until there is something written in the Regs its not worth worrying about.

Thats the wrong attitude to have. We, as hunters, have the ability to influence the decision makers. We have a voice and they will listen to it.

[ursus]

IMO, the bag limit should never have been 2 bucks for region 5. Reducing the bag limit to 1 doe and 1 buck would turn things around for the better.

[MattB]

IMO, the bag limit should never have been 2 bucks for region 5. Reducing the bag limit to 1 doe and 1 buck would turn things around for the better.

I think that could work for a few years to hopefully get the buck:doe ratios in check.

[Tinney]

They give out so many doe LEHs I honestly don't know why there isn't a doe GOS. There would be two more bucks in region 5 if there was...

[Skeena Hunter 1]

I think they should give some opportunity for the rut, maybe a bow only season?:wink:

[tooley]

I believe two years would make a big difference, I would be scared that it would never return to the way it is now, this is the government we are talking about, all take and no give!

[browningboy]

Wow, driving through billys puddle to clinton, I seen shitloads of deer, too many hill billies I guess!

[chilcotin hillbilly]

I live in area 5. The buck doe ratio is out of wack but I would prefer to a much longer 4 point season and a shorter any buck season ,as this would reduce the amount of bucks being havested. It seems most hunters have a problem harvesting mature bucks

[hunter1947]

Two mulie bucks in region 5 is not acceptable in my thoughts ,should be 1 for that region. lets face it if you want another one go to another region to get your second one.

[CanuckShooter]

It was 2 bucks per season for years and years without a problem, even had a GOS for does at one time. One year with a 3 doe limit would balance things out in a hurry.

[willyqbc]

I sit in on the allocation committee meetings for region fiva nad also am friends with the region 5 president of the BCWF.....here is what I know about this.

A lot of very good ideas were run out to the ministry at their request as to how we should deal with the buck/doe ratio here....they were all dismissed and they went with their original plan anyways......I know, shocking

so it appears that we will indeed lose buck hunting from Nov. 10th on, but heres the BIG problem with that. They call it a moratorium, when asked at the meeting if it would automatically be lifted after the 2 year period we were told "yes..thats the definiton of a moratorium, it comes off automatically with no consultation required". Some time later we found out after revisiting the issue that the ministry did indeed intend to consult with First Nations before lifting the "moratorium"....problem there is the First Nations of the area, as I understand it, have allready stated they will oppose any re-opening. Soooooooo.....we could very well be losing our rut hunt for good!!!!

I think the ministry definately has a hidden agenda in this province as they seem to be paying lip service to the idea that they will consult us on what is happening to OUR hunting. i fear that the hidden agenda involves shifting hunting rights to the First Nations of this province and that we will all end up paying First Nations to hunt in "their" areas.

I for one am not going to roll over and take this quietly...neither should any of you, because if it happens here it can happen where you live too.

Chris

[Tinney]

Chris, why the hell would the natives be against lifting the moratorium?? I'm not jumping on the 'damn natives' bandwagon like everyone else will be. I want to hear the reasoning from the bands

[BCrams]

Chris, why the hell would the natives be against lifting the moratorium?? I'm not jumping on the 'damn natives' bandwagon like everyone else will be. I want to hear the reasoning from the bands

Perhaps thats why you should think about what you support first!! This is one of the ramifications of the proposed change could have.

[willyqbc]

Tinney, from personal experience i can tell you that the natives believe the wildlife is theirs and we should pay for the right to hunt "their" game. How do i know this...well 2 years ago a representative for the first nations in the area briefly attended the allocation meeting, his only contribution to the meeting was a complaint of all the non native hunters shooting his peoples moose and when were they going to be compensated for it?? I'm sure they would like nothing more than to have total control over a resource as lucrative as our wildlife....so the more that is taken away from resident hunters the better they like it. We can also point to the ill fated immature bull season here to clearly see the first nations position on wildlife in this region.

you don't really think the moratorium will apply to them do you?? Perhaps i should rephrase that....you don't really think they will stop hunting muleys in november do you? Precedents have been set that first Nations people can ignore regulations that should pertain to them and the authorities will not touch them. I don't blame the local authorities though, i believe this position comes from much higher up the food chain.

Just my opinion
Chris

[Tinney]

I think that 'representative' was way out to lunch!

No, I realize they can still hunt whenever they want. The problem with this kind of talk is that each native hunter is going to act a different way. Not all of them will follow the regulation changes, not all of them feel the sae way as your 'representative'
I think the problem is tht there is no legitimate 'representation' of the first nations hunting community. Each will do as they please, and I think it would be difficult for any native band to successfully oppose the moratorium lift in 2 years.

[Fisher-Dude]

I heard exactly the same thing as willyq from a Native leader when discussing aboriginal tenure in the forest industry, basically saying that the forest companies would be buying rights to harvest from the native bands.

All the more reason for hunters to sign up with the BCWF and show their numbers.

[Steeleco]

I heard exactly the same thing as willyq from a Native leader when discussing aboriginal tenure in the forest industry, basically saying that the forest companies would be buying rights to harvest from the native bands.

All the more reason for hunters to sign up with the BCWF and show their numbers.

I just yesterday got a letter looking for donations from the BCWF, I may have to give more than I first thought!!

Equal rights means just that :confused::confused:

[BCrams]

I'm only goin by the impression I got hunting native land in Alkali Lake. Lots of deer, lots of nice bucks, few hunters. And the native guys I met seemed to be really good guys.

Interesting.

Hows the hunting?

[willyqbc]

I think it would be difficult for any native band to successfully oppose the moratorium lift in 2 years.

I think you greatly underestimate the influence of the first nations on ministry decisions. As told to us by the ministry reps the priority order for hunting allocation is 1. Conservation 2. FN interests 3. resident hunters
It took a loosely organized protest and roadblock a matter of a few days to get the immature bull season here shut down a few years back. FN issues as a whole are such a volatile issue that the politicians do not want to go anywhere near them so it seems the easiest way out is to try and quietly give them what they want, thus avoiding a big public outcry and confrontation splashed all over the news. Bottom line I believe is that if they do not want the moratorium lifted and make a fuss about, it will not be lifted. There are indicators allready that hunting opportunities will come under FN control....look at the regs from a year or two ago where it was printed that this scenario may be coming soon (I forget which area and band). It is a scary possibility the resident hunters of this province may find themselves faced with....I don't know how it will play out, I'm just saying the possibility exists so we need to make it as uncomfortable as possible for the ministry to go this direction.

Chris

[Tinney]

Interesting.

Hows the hunting?

Pretty good :lol:

[boonerbuck]

So how has the any buck til Nov 20th contibuted for or against this decline in mature or trophy bucks.

I know a lot of people were opposed to it.

And....I'm sick of seeing Native hunters drive by me during the rut with a shooter standing in the back with his rifle resting on the roof and 5 or 6 deer around his feet....just to see them the next day and the day after with a bed full deer. This indiscrimnate shooting of migrating deer during the breeding period can't help.

[BCrams]

Pretty good :lol:

So you saw some pretty good bucks then?

[pgstillhunter]

The BC Wildlife Federation sent out a newsletter a year or two ago warning of a proposal put before the Cariboo Wildlife Advisory Committee in December 2004 by the Cariboo Chilcotin Guide Outfitters. The proposal read: "That resident hunters be limited from two bucks bag limit down to one Mule Deer buck only per year". The BCWF reps on the committee objected strenuously.
In the same BCWF newsletter, they go on to say that the Guide Outfitters of BC had openly proposed to the government the following:
- that all general open seasons for all wildlife species be suspended.
- resident hunters be placed on LEH for all species of wildlife in all regions of the province.
- resident hunters' access to crown land be restricted.
- if resident hunters fail to harvest their Annual Allowable HArvest, that the surplus then be allocated to the Guides.
- Once this surplus is passed on to the Guides, that the surplus numbers remain in the hands of the Guides.
With respect to the Cariboo Chilcotin Guide Outfitters Association's proposal to limit the resident hunter to one buck instead of two, the BCWF said:
"The CCGOA have brought this proposal forward because they feel it is the only way to grow more and bigger bucks of 4 points or larger. This is in spite of the fact that the Ministry of Environment staff have given us figures that show that the Mule Deer population is at an all time high in Region 5 and that the buck/doe ratio is healthy. During the Spring of 2005, an inventory of mule deer was conducted in some management units in Region 5, and not only did this inventory show that the population was healthy, but it showed that some management units have reached the saturation point. This means that the habitat cannot sustain more deer and that many are facing starvation and disease because of over-population."
In 2006, the BCWF circulated a petition that said:
"We the residents of British Columbia wish to communicate to the Ministry of Environment "THAT WE CLEARLY SUPPORT THE PRESENT MULE DEER TWO (2) BUCK LIMIT IN REGION 5."
It doesn't sound like the petition was successful.

[ruttinbuck]

What willyqbc is saying mirrors in alot of ways what the bio in the Cariboo said when asked about these changes by me six weeks ago.FN interests are now ahead of resident hunters and GOABC.
The bio said that the natives had already stated if they get the MD buck closure from Nov 10th on,that season that season will not be coming back.I am not fear mongering here.They have plans for the rut hunt and it does'nt involve having alot of resident hunters in the way.
Remember the courts have already ruled that "Traditional Lands" are open to FN hunting with no season closures or bag limits and all of BC in considered traditional lands.
The Campbell government wants to settle land claims with the FN before 2010.Pretty embarassing to have your FN show up and protest at the Olympics in front of the world.
Giving control of the fish and wildlife resource to the FN goes along way in settling claims.
I am not trying to sensationalize this problem,however anyone not belonging to the BCWF better get signed up pronto.
I personally believe all prime big game hunting will be user fee only,and managed by some one other than the goverment.Very restricted if any rut hunting by resident hunters in BC before I am finished my hunting days with all prime huntiing sold to the highest foreign bidders.
GENTS IF YOU LOVE YOUR HUNTING HERITAGE AND WANT TO KEEP AT IT GET YOURSELF ORGANIZED NOW AS IT MIGHT NOT BE TOO LATE.RB

[Tinney]

Wow we turned another one into 'dam natives'

Hunting was pretty good :lol:

[MattB]

So much for keeping things quiet eh?

[Tinney]

So much for keeping things quiet eh?

You make the least bit of sense some times :lol:

[Gus]

You make the least bit of sense some times :lol:

Seems pretty straight foward to me:cool:

[ruttinbuck]

Wow we turned another one into 'dam natives'

Hunting was pretty good :lol:
Wait 10 years and you can show me I was wrong.RB

[MattB]

If they do close down reg 5 for the rut then reg 3 will get pounded for sure! Then what? Close down reg 3's rut hunt too?:roll:

[Tinney]

In ten years I plan on being able to walk down to the regional bio's office and smack browningmirage in the head when he does dumb shight :lol: