Let there be Elk !!

[boxhitch]

OK I'm going to go out on a limb here.
Open up the whole friggin' Mainland regions to 3 point or better, 20 day post-rut season. Essentially Reg 4, 8 , 3 , 7 .
-Pressure would be distributed
-Current crowding is caused by lack of open areas
-No overharvest or slaughter
-Allowing harvest closer to home
-Distribution of hunting pressure may cause further distribution of elk to other suitable areas = more elk
-Pressured areas would soon be revealed, and adjusted as required.
-the state of herds in the entire province is 'good' to 'above capacity'
-Hunter numbers are at an all time low
-Cost of transportation effects distance hunters want to travel
-Cost of travel influences the level of certainty a hunter needs before hunting
-Game management in the province is fractured, wiith individual prioritys (not necessarily science based)
-Rut could still be treated as 'trophy' with limits and restrictions
-Rut would improve in quality of hunt due to decreased activity.
-Tag sales could offer 'moose OR elk' permits where season overlap

[horshur]

You guys keep on and on about the Elk....What about moose? There sure in hell less of a conservation concern than Elk in one half of one region....why are you not railing against the moose LEH??

[boxhitch]

Good idea. Open them up and have only 'moose or elk' permits.

[Fisher-Dude]

Yep. I say let's get that aggregate moose/elk bag limit idea going again. Region 4 had a one moose OR one elk aggregate bag limit for years. No one needs more than one of these animals (exemption for good Catholics maybe? :wink: ). Anyways, open moose and elk GOS everywhere and each hunter can take one or the other. I like it. Let's get the data to support it! :)

[boxhitch]

Let's get the data to support it! :)Should be easy, as there is no science showing it is a bad idea.

[elkdom]

I guess if your having problems finding a six point, youll have problems finding a three point, so the next step is open season all elk, any sex! if you cant get one of those every time you buy a tag , then what? gee's just hone your hunting skills and cope!, the rest of us do!

[boxhitch]

So thats a yes opinion?

[horshur]

Box....best I can see...no elk season in region 3 and not a preponderence of Elk either:wink:

[elkdom]

The answer is NO!, 6 point restirictions keep the elk herds strong and healthy, getting a bull elk involves hard work and dedication, make it easy and it becomes an elk shoot,I have no problem with the regulations as they are , most seasoned elk hunters are not daunted by a six point restriction, if you just want to hunt meat then go for moose or deer early season hunts,if you give up finding a six point trophy bull so be it!

[Iron-Head]

I guess if your having problems finding a six point, youll have problems finding a three point, so the next step is open season all elk, any sex! if you cant get one of those every time you buy a tag , then what? gee's just hone your hunting skills and cope!, the rest of us do!
The rest of us being the remaining tiny portion of B.C. that hunts.... I say open em' up, but be careful because there are allot of smaller concentrations of animals such as the Sechelt herd, that IMO would get decimated by an GO for 3 point or 6 point for that matter. Its a touchy subject because Elk in certain areas may benefit from this regulation change, and in other areas the opposite could happen.

Worth a try if we could work out the MU-s in which to open this season,

Just my Two' cents.

[boxhitch]

Pocket herds of special elk could be kept restricted, especially considering pressure near the hunter concentrations.

[boxhitch]

elkdom, consider what your trophy hunt would be like , if there were less than half of the hunters in the woods at the same time.

[elkdom]

Anywhere i have hunted in BC over the last 35 yrs, the number of hunters in the woods has never been an issue or a problem,as I hunt where the game is and not where the hunters are, it is not a concern, my only concern is that some people want seasons to enable thier own success, regardless of thier hunting methods.If an area has a lot of hunters, dont go there! There can be twenty other elk hunters in a ten mile radius,if you know how to find big bulls the other hunters dont mean squatt, in fact they can enhance your chances if you know the nature of the beast!

[happygilmore]

Anywhere i have hunted in BC over the last 35 yrs, the number of hunters in the woods has never been an issue or a problem,as I hunt where the game is and not where the hunters are, it is not a concern, my only concern is that some people want seasons to enable thier own success, regardless of thier hunting methods.If an area has a lot of hunters, dont go there! There can be twenty other elk hunters in a ten mile radius,if you know how to find big bulls the other hunters dont mean squatt, in fact they can enhance your chances if you know the nature of the beast!

Well I hope you take 40-50 new hunters a year with you to show them how to hunt big bulls because if you don't the guys who won't hunt elk because of low sucess rates aren't going to take them either = low hunter numbers. good god why can't we look at the big picture instead of how this affects me. Elkdom, if other hunters can't get the big bulls now, what are you worried about? Trophy hunting comes second in my book to meat hunting, don't get me wrong I hunt for horn, when I'm done hunting for meat.

[elkdom]

News for " happygilmore ", why dont you read this thread from the beginning one more time, the point is im not worried about anything to do with the elk seasons as they are administered, I am not worried about how many guys buy tags, Im not worried about how many guys legally harvest elk, as long as I can buy an elk tag I am good with the GOS as they are and have been for the past 35 years in BC, as your comments that maybe I should take 40 or 50 new hunters a year out with me and show them how to hunt bull elk, I have more news for you, I have mentored dozens of new hunters, the only sad news for you is I dont hunt with whinners and smart alecks, and one more thing I do not strictly trophy hunt, never have,I hunt 6 point Bull Elk because that is the GOS in most areas of BC, I rarely shoot the first 6 pointer I am close enough to kil unless it happens to be the last few days of elk season, I passed up 5 legal bulls this last season in the first three weeks of 6 point GOS, so to finish let me stress that I hunt elk for the sport, the thrill of calling in big bulls as close as 10 yards, some times 4,5,6 of them within 100 yards of me in the bush,so believe me when I say Im not worried about the numbers of hunters looking for elk during a GOS , so good nite and happy dreams!

[hunter1947]

This is similar to the other elk threads ,I'm not going to go there.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif. In a few words ,in order to conserve and have a healthy head of species in any region you have to manage it properly ,thats the bottom line. Managing have scr*w ups ,there not always right in the things they do. Its like any of us we all make mistakes and we learn from our mistakes. What I think that we should do from the members of HBC is get someone that has good wording on this form that is very intelligent and we all try and work as a team to put in righting what would be a good proposal that would work to conserve elk at all regions and a season that we will all benefit from and send it to the elk management that implement's the rules. I know of one person on hear that is a biologist maybe he is the man to do the job budismyhorse or a few others that could put it together Fisher Dude ,BCrams ,Goat Guy ,Brambles. There are others that would be the right person for the job as well ,but to many to name.????:idea:. Lets work together as HBC members ,we are all a big family hear ,are we not ???. Lets get a email or letter together from our proposal and send it to the elk management ,we have nothing to loose ,only to gain.

[Fisher-Dude]

The answer is NO!, 6 point restirictions keep the elk herds strong and healthy, getting a bull elk involves hard work and dedication, make it easy and it becomes an elk shoot,I have no problem with the regulations as they are , most seasoned elk hunters are not daunted by a six point restriction, if you just want to hunt meat then go for moose or deer early season hunts,if you give up finding a six point trophy bull so be it!

Actually, the science says otherwise. 6 point seasons are used for herd recovery plans. In the longer term, 6 point seasons are detrimental to the herd's overall health and well-being. Read the studies upon which the E Kootenay elk recovery plan was based if you don't believe me. It's fact.

[model88]

Actually, the science says otherwise. 6 point seasons are used for herd recovery plans. In the longer term, 6 point seasons are detrimental to the herd's overall health and well-being. Read the studies upon which the E Kootenay elk recovery plan was based if you don't believe me. It's fact.

OK Fisher-Dude, when does the 6 point season become detrimental to the herd ours seems to be doing well. IMO opening up a 3 point season, the recruitment of all these new hunters you so pasionantly talk about.....now that, I feel, will be detrimental to a herd. Just an opinion.

[Dirty]

Why not do some sort of year cycling or something? Odd years are 3pt and better season for a number of days (First 7 days of september) then transfer to 6pt. Then on even years it is 6pt and thats it. Right now there is an ANY elk season for bowhunters in the Kootenays. That doesn't limit hunting to the use of bow and arrows. Crossbows can be used and they are very easy to use without any practice. If people really wanted to have a shot at harvesting an elk they would head up there during this time.

[boxhitch]

This is similar to the other elk treads ,I'm not going to go there.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.
Then my point isn't clear

This thread is about opening up the province to reasonable gos seasons, on a species that has numbers high enough to be of no scientific conservation concern. Seasons that coincide.

Everyone is protective of MY Elk, this suggests spreading out the effort. Take the same number of hunters and give them a larger area, with lesser antler restrictions, to choose to hunt in. Manage the game not the people.

[Ron.C]

I have only been elk hunting for four years now, but have had some pretty good success during the archery season in the SE Koots.This is my take. I don't pack in for miles, but do get into the bush and hunt. To me, it doesn't matter how many hunters are in an area. I have only ever run into two guys while in the bush and that was when I was traveling to the areas I wanted to hunt, but have seen tons of trucks cruising the roads. Last year, we hunted the first week of the rifle season too, and I the same thing. Lots of guys driving the roads, and that is fine if that's how you want to hunt, but I still didn't run into any in the bush. So the thought of opening all regions up to a GOS in the hope of distributing hunter numbers would not change the method or area I hunt. I would still head to the Kootenays even if I could hunt an area closer to home. I just love hunting in the Kootenays. As far a the 3 point GOS, I support this season if the herds can sustain it. And where I have been hunting, there is no shortage of elk. My partners and I see plenty of elk including lots of 4's, 5's and 6's. Hunter 1947, I agree with you and I would be all for HBC members getting together, collecting ideas and submitting a letter stating our support or recomendations for elk management, including the implementation of a three point season if that is manageable. The more vocal we are and more importanly, the more vocal we are as united members of some sort of special interest group like HBC, the more weight our combined voice carries. I may be wrong and I'm no political expert, but I believe ultimately alot of theses decisions are based as much on political concerns as management needs. Was the Grizzly Bear hunt not targetted a couple years ago, and seasons were closed and re-opened in a very short period. The management data sure didn't change, but political concerns of the decision makers sure must have. That's where we come in.

[Fisher-Dude]

OK Fisher-Dude, when does the 6 point season become detrimental to the herd ours seems to be doing well. IMO opening up a 3 point season, the recruitment of all these new hunters you so pasionantly talk about.....now that, I feel, will be detrimental to a herd. Just an opinion.

It's in here: http://www.library.for.gov.bc.ca/ipac20/ipac.jsp?session=1D03351293SE4.42213&profile=mof&uri=link=3100008@!87178@!3100001@!3100002&aspect=basic_search&menu=search&ri=4&source=142.36.141.139@!forest&term=Elk+Hunting+--+Kootenay+Region.&index=SUBJE#focus

Unfortunately the MoE doesn't have it in downloadable format for internet junkies at that site. I have the hard copy in my reams of paper somewhere - I'll try to dig it up to give you an answer. Maybe Goat Guy has it in e-format so that we can all poke through. Sorry, I can't remember what the exact timeframe is, so I don't want to mis-quote the paper...

[Fisher-Dude]

I have only been elk hunting for four years now, but have had some pretty good success during the archery season in the SE Koots.This is my take. I don't pack in for miles, but do get into the bush and hunt. To me, it doesn't matter how many hunters are in an area. I have only ever run into two guys while in the bush and that was when I was traveling to the areas I wanted to hunt, but have seen tons of trucks cruising the roads. Last year, we hunted the first week of the rifle season too, and I the same thing. Lots of guys driving the roads, and that is fine if that's how you want to hunt, but I still didn't run into any in the bush. So the thought of opening all regions up to a GOS in the hope of distributing hunter numbers would not change the method or area I hunt. I would still head to the Kootenays even if I could hunt an area closer to home. I just love hunting in the Kootenays. As far a the 3 point GOS, I support this season if the herds can sustain it. And where I have been hunting, there is no shortage of elk. My partners and I see plenty of elk including lots of 4's, 5's and 6's. Hunter 1947, I agree with you and I would be all for HBC members getting together, collecting ideas and submitting a letter stating our support or recomendations for elk management, including the implementation of a three point season if that is manageable. The more vocal we are and more importanly, the more vocal we are as united members of some sort of special interest group like HBC, the more weight our combined voice carries. I may be wrong and I'm no political expert, but I believe ultimately alot of theses decisions are based as much on political concerns as management needs. Was the Grizzly Bear hunt not targetted a couple years ago, and seasons were closed and re-opened in a very short period. The management data sure didn't change, but political concerns of the decision makers sure must have. That's where we come in.

Thanks Ron. Well written.

[BCJunior]

Yep. I say let's get that aggregate moose/elk bag limit idea going again. Region 4 had a one moose OR one elk aggregate bag limit for years. No one needs more than one of these animals (exemption for good Catholics maybe? :wink: ). Anyways, open moose and elk GOS everywhere and each hunter can take one or the other. I like it. Let's get the data to support it! :)


I agree 100%! Let there be elk...and moose!!! :tongue:

[boxhitch]

IMO opening up a 3 point season, the recruitment of all these new hunters you so pasionantly talk about.....now that, I feel, will be detrimental to a herd. Just an opinion.
If the same opportunity is open at the same time elsewhere, this pressure should be non-existant, as hunters will be spread out, instead of concentrated by narrow openings.
The animals are there to support this.

[happygilmore]

News for " happygilmore ", why dont you read this thread from the beginning one more time, the point is im not worried about anything to do with the elk seasons as they are administered, I am not worried about how many guys buy tags, Im not worried about how many guys legally harvest elk, as long as I can buy an elk tag I am good with the GOS as they are and have been for the past 35 years in BC, as your comments that maybe I should take 40 or 50 new hunters a year out with me and show them how to hunt bull elk, I have more news for you, I have mentored dozens of new hunters, the only sad news for you is I dont hunt with whinners and smart alecks, and one more thing I do not strictly trophy hunt, never have,I hunt 6 point Bull Elk because that is the GOS in most areas of BC, I rarely shoot the first 6 pointer I am close enough to kil unless it happens to be the last few days of elk season, I passed up 5 legal bulls this last season in the first three weeks of 6 point GOS, so to finish let me stress that I hunt elk for the sport, the thrill of calling in big bulls as close as 10 yards, some times 4,5,6 of them within 100 yards of me in the bush,so believe me when I say Im not worried about the numbers of hunters looking for elk during a GOS , so good nite and happy dreams!

that's right as long as your interests are met you dont have any problems do you, hunter numbers affect us all. by the way i can make my point without your insults. higher sucess rates and more new hunters is the point

[elkdom]

Absolutely True ! the whole point being , as long as I can buy an elk tag ,Im totally satisfied ! once I have my elk tag the rest is hunting history, too many people spend time whinning rather than out scouting game or really working at being sucessfull,

[one-shot-wonder]

Absolutely True ! the whole point being , as long as I can buy an elk tag ,Im totally satisfied ! once I have my elk tag the rest is hunting history, too many people spend time whinning rather than out scouting game or really working at being sucessfull,

Nice attitude! :mad:

It's selfish individuals like yourself that make it hard on the many that work avidly to maintain the privelege of hunting for generations to come.

[Frango]

The answer is NO!, 6 point restirictions keep the elk herds strong and healthy, getting a bull elk involves hard work and dedication, make it easy and it becomes an elk shoot,I have no problem with the regulations as they are , most seasoned elk hunters are not daunted by a six point restriction, if you just want to hunt meat then go for moose or deer early season hunts,if you give up finding a six point trophy bull so be it!
I could not agree more

[elkdom]

What is that some of you guys dont get! British Columbia has the most liberal of hunting seasons and opportunities of anywhere in North America ! Anyone may buy a resident tag for almost any species at thier own chosen time , you can hunt in warm weather or late seasons if your not too whimpy to be out in the cold, yet thread after thread all I hear is some of us want more open seasons, less antler restrictions things that may make it easy to kill something!If you are a resident of B.C. you already have the best place to hunt in the world, so make something out of the opportunities available !!! Any resident of BC has the same opportunities buy GOS season tags as the next hunter does, I am happy with the hunting seasons so thats all I have to say on the topic of GOS in the BC hunting regulations, if you dont like my opinion, too bad!, I will be happy to send you pics of the 25 or so 6x elk I have harvested in the last 30 years!

[horshur]

Nice attitude! :mad:

It's selfish individuals like yourself that make it hard on the many that work avidly to maintain the privelege of hunting for generations to come.


........:roll:

[boxhitch]

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkdom http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?p=246890#post246890)
Absolutely True ! the whole point being , as long as I can buy an elk tag ,Im totally satisfied ! once I have my elk tag the rest is hunting history, too many people spend time whinning rather than out scouting game or really working at being sucessfull,

There are other people interested in killing an Elk, too. And there is no scientific reason that opportunities shouldn't be opened up for them to make it easier. You might consider others players in this game. Chances are the changes won't effect you, so stand aside.

[elkdom]

SORRY ! boxhitch but I will buy a bull elk tag for the 2008 season during the GOS,that is open to all BC residents and I will probably kill another 6x6 or better bull elk, I is my right, my priveledge under the statutes of the PROVINCIAL game regulations, so I am sorry to inform you I will not be STANDING ASIDE for YOU or anyone else ! but I do wish you luck in your hunting efforts this comming season!

[boxhitch]

Maybe I should have suggested " Make room for others" but I doubt your response would have been different.

[elkdom]

I doubt IT! I rarely see hunters while im elk hunting because I hunt where the ELK are, not where its crowded with hunters, and I have absolutly no interest in harvesting a 3 point bull elk, even if there was a season open all though the GOS, and if one day all elk hunting in BC is by limited entry so be it, Grizzly Bear has been by limited entry for several years, I was drawn for GBEAR three times in three years, I guess I am a lucky guy!

[one-shot-wonder]

I doubt IT! I rarely see hunters while im elk hunting because I hunt where the ELK are, not where its crowded with hunters, and I have absolutly no interest in harvesting a 3 point bull elk, even if there was a season open all though the GOS, and if one day all elk hunting in BC is by limited entry so be it, Grizzly Bear has been by limited entry for several years, I was drawn for GBEAR three times in three years, I guess I am a lucky guy!

Well I wish you luck on harvesting your 6 point this fall. Your a lucky guy 3 draws in 3 years. Post up some pics of your G bear(s).......

[elkdom]

I dont need luck when I hunt elk, I work hard, I make my own luck, 25 elk in 30 yrs of huntingin BC, 5 GRIZZLIES in 30 yrs, I love to hunt, I love this province,I dont post pictures on this site ,sorry! get your own thrills!

[happygilmore]

Elkdom, I love how you continue to insinuate that we all must not be very determined hunters who stay in when its cold and just want to shoot our game from the comfort of our lounge chairs... I just wonder what your opinion would be if you lived in an area where there wasn't as much game as there id in dawson? I've lived places where you go out in a day and stop counting deer when you reach tripple digits, where you field judge whitch buck you want to take, You Must be some hunter... 25 6x6 in 30 yrs, 3 grizz draws wow were so impressed, why don't you come down to where you can go a week pushing bush and walking ridges and only see a few deer, but next week your right out there again... this year was an entire season of that, I had opertunity for some small 4's but never took it, I had moose in the freezer and was hunting for horn, I didn't cut my deer tag this year, frustrating as hell but I'll be out again next year...By the way that moose was my second in this region in 8yrs, but I 'm not much of a hunter...right? you would know...

[elkdom]

sorry to hurt your feelings there happygilmore but i lived in vancouver for 24 yrs,i huntyed just as much then as I do now, learned most of my methods while i lived in the smoke and stink, i finally moved north, to live on a lake in the wilderness, do you think this is something personal or what?

[Elk-Aholic]

Hell, keep them at 6 point. I've seen them experiment with 3 point seasons in several different area's and in those area's it sucked and hurt the herd big time. They moved it back to 6 and the herd is doing great (over a period of years of course) in those regions. Though in some regions a 3 point ain't a bad idea as hunter pressure isn't there and access into the area's is extremely tough. But the only people I've seen lately want a 3 point season are those that can't shoot one or even see an elk in the bush. Maybe a 3 point season should be in a LEH area or maybe any bull????

[Fisher-Dude]

Hell, keep them at 6 point. I've seen them experiment with 3 point seasons in several different area's and in those area's it sucked and hurt the herd big time. They moved it back to 6 and the herd is doing great (over a period of years of course) in those regions.

Where did you see a 3 point season that was the determining factor in hurting the herd?

[Elk-Aholic]

Where did you see a 3 point season that was the determining factor in hurting the herd?

Few in region 8 going back a 'few' years. Herd numbers went down due to lack of breeding, it wasn't hard to see come winter time, you didn't need to be a NASA scientists to observe it. Lots of dry females as well in the spring, though you can account some of that to coyote/cougar kills, a miss-carrage here and there, but it was like this year after year, not just one winter. They finally put it back to 6 point season and after a few years the herd rebounded and seems to be doing well even today. At least that's what the local biologists states.

What about a 3 point or any bull LEH season, as well as still having the GOS with a 6 point restriction? Obviously a limited amount of LEH tags will be given as to not 'wipe' out the herd entirely. That way those hunters that have a tough time finding a 6 point can shoot the first bull they see pending they are drawn?

[Fisher-Dude]

Few in region 8 going back a 'few' years. Herd numbers went down due to lack of breeding, it wasn't hard to see come winter time, you didn't need to be a NASA scientists to observe it. Lots of dry females as well in the spring, though you can account some of that to coyote/cougar kills, a miss-carrage here and there, but it was like this year after year, not just one winter. They finally put it back to 6 point season and after a few years the herd rebounded and seems to be doing well even today. At least that's what the local biologists states.

What about a 3 point or any bull LEH season, as well as still having the GOS with a 6 point restriction? Obviously a limited amount of LEH tags will be given as to not 'wipe' out the herd entirely. That way those hunters that have a tough time finding a 6 point can shoot the first bull they see pending they are drawn?

Harvest in region 8 has always been extremely low, especially west of the Kettle. The region 8 herd has been traditionally limited by lack of suitable habitat, competition with deer and cattle, predation by cougars in the dense/blowdown infested range at OK Mtn Park (pre-2003 fire), and a lack of genetic diversity. The reason we have an increase in the western portion of the region 8 herd now is two-fold:

1.) the introduction of new animals into the Princeton herd to create some genetic diversity - from B Harris himself, April 2007.

2.) the 26,000 hectare OK Mtn Park fire in 2003 that created a huge amount of new habitat, pushed some splinter herds out to populate surrounding areas during the initial fire, and created better open spaces to avoid cougar predation on calves.

GoatGuy, please post the elk harvest stats for region 8 so that we can get a comparison of pre- and post-6 point harvest.

[boxhitch]

GoatGuy, please post the elk harvest stats for region 8 so that we can get a comparison of pre- and post-6 point harvest.F-Dude, you need to get hardwired into these stats, too. Some are on the MOE site. GG may be airborne, when you venture into the dark alley, and need him for aide.