Over Grazing and Access to Rangelands

[Aaron Blom]

I hunted in the Chilcotin this year as we have been doing for the past couple of years and was shocked at the condition of the grasslands. I have experience in rangeland assessments and it was definetly an issue of over grazing, now this is crown land that is leased to the permit holder. I am more than a little choked that it appears to be common practice around the province. Should we as hunters be putting presure of the MOFR to enforce the regulations that in place or just let it happen? These range lease's where also post extremely heavy, worse than in previous years. I realize that hunter must obtain permission to hunt "while cattle are at large". We were hunting after the lease period, so it was not an issue, however we did notice way fewer hunters in the area, do to the signs is what we thought, soem of these signs where "Private Property No Hunting" signs, this aslo chocked us as we have done our research and know it is crown land. Any opinions ??

[Gateholio]

Iilegal signs can be dealt wiht by giving detailed descriptions to the local CO.

Overgrazing is an old issue and always been somewhat of a hot potato. It's an important issue though.

[MichelD]

Overgrazing features prominently in Chilco Choate's book "Unfriendly Neighbours" about guiding on territory he shared with the Gang Ranch.

[abbyfireguy]

We hunt in 5-13,6-1 and a bit of 7-11...Have run into the illegal signs a few times up there and have double checked before ignoring them...
Grazing rights on crown land are just that,grazing rights ,not access control of the lands in question.
Be very careful before ignoring signs as there are large tracts of private land in the middle of crown land(which is pretty weird).
Overgrazing is an issue that will never go away as annual rainfall which effects grassland growth is hard to predict.Combined with that is the fact that range cattle are often only seen by the rancher a few times a year,its not like you can shuttle them between fields like a smaller operation can...
Pray for rain next summer!!!:cool:

[6616]

I would contact the range manager in the forest district and lodge a complaint. There's also avenue of initiating an official Forest Practices board complaint but you need lots of evidence and proof that the tenure holder is out of compliance with his Range Use Plan, and that's not easy to put together.

There are two kinds of grazing tenures, grazing licenses, and grazing leases. If they're leases as many are in that country the leaseholders have the right to post the land and deny public access when the lease is occupied by cattle, otherwise it's just Crown Land, they just don't bother taking the signs down after the grazing season is over because they're inconsiderate.

Grazing Licenses cannot control or deny public access in any way.

The only way to find out if they're licenses or leases, if the tenure holders are following their range use plans, or if cattle you might see are supposed to be there or not, is throught the District range office in MOF, and they're not usually too cooperative.

[Orangethunder]

I would contact the range manager in the forest district and lodge a complaint. There's also avenue of initiating an official Forest Practices board complaint but you need lots of evidence and proof that the tenure holder is out of compliance with his Range Use Plan, and that's not easy to put together.

There are two kinds of grazing tenures, grazing licenses, and grazing leases. If they're leases as many are in that country the leaseholders have the right to post the land and deny public access when the lease is occupied by cattle, otherwise it's just Crown Land, they just don't bother taking the signs down after the grazing season is over because they're inconsiderate.

Grazing Licenses cannot control or deny public access in any way.

The only way to find out if they're licenses or leases, if the tenure holders are following their range use plans, or if cattle you might see are supposed to be there or not, is throught the District range office in MOF, and they're not usually too cooperative.

I wouldn't just say that MOFR range staff are uncooperative in general. Thats a pretty broad stroke. If you make an inquiry in a polite and proffesional manner you will get a decent answer. If that doesn't work ask to speak to the District Manager or an Operations Manager.

[Schutzen]

Well I happen to know one and he is definetly not a hunting supporter! Myself I have wondered for some time now what is the status of the cattle industry? I heard/thot it was in the tank. If so why in the hell do they take precedence over game mngt? Some years back I hunted the Klusko/Thunder mtn area. The valley bottom looked prime for game...but this was mid Oct. and it was just choked with white faces. We saw 9 does in one group and that was it for 10 days hunting outside of one spike buck another hunter got. I have to admit I have a problem with the cattle industry deal..maybe I need to get educated a little. Just seems like they get way too much for what they put back.

[6616]

I wouldn't just say that MOFR range staff are uncooperative in general. Thats a pretty broad stroke. If you make an inquiry in a polite and proffesional manner you will get a decent answer. If that doesn't work ask to speak to the District Manager or an Operations Manager.

I agree, that was an inappropriate statement, but it is hard to get information at times. Of course in the defence of range staff most people that go in to complain don't even know what range unit or what lease they were on, and most people wouldn't get as much info out of seeing the Range Use Plan anyway. As well, as with many government people now-a-days they are short staffed and stressed out. The District Range people have huge territiries to manage and small staff to manage it with.

On the other hand I'm aware there is over-grazing occurring in many areas and it's frustrating to see that on ungulate winter range especially, and especially if the local ranchers blame wild deer and elk for it like happens a lot in the East Kootenay. If overgrazing is occurring range management has to take the responsibility for it in the end, range management and enforcement of Range Use or Range Stewardship Plans are after is their job.

[Big7]

I wouldn't just say that MOFR range staff are uncooperative in general. Thats a pretty broad stroke. If you make an inquiry in a polite and proffesional manner you will get a decent answer. If that doesn't work ask to speak to the District Manager or an Operations Manager.

You wouldn't work for the MOFR by chance would you?:razz:

[boxhitch]

Of course in the defence of range staff most people that go in to complain don't even know what range unit or what lease they were on, and most people wouldn't get as much info out of seeing the Range Use Plan anyway. As well, as with many government people now-a-days they are short staffed and stressed out. The District Range people have huge territiries to manage and small staff to manage it with.

.Yet another prime example of how an unified and informed group with a collective effort could make a difference.
A single back country hick, trying to vent with no real background, is not going to be recognized as a complaint. People have to assemble as groups to ahve a voice that is heard.

[Orangethunder]

You wouldn't work for the MOFR by chance would you?:razz:


You never know. Regardless I do agree that wild animals should by all means take precedent over livestock. I just don't want well intentioned hunters discouraged from making complaints. In fact I encourage everyone who sees this going on to report it and make a stink. Just know not to give up if someone in Range sweeps it under the rug.

Not sure why the province seems to bend over backwards to kiss ranchers asses but they do. If we as a group lobby for better management it would go a long way. I would rather see wildlife in the wild and livestock behind fences on private land, all year. Just my .02.

[sealevel]

I am sure that the cattle on grasing licences had to be off by oct.12-15. But how i see cattle on the hills clear into dec. Cows become broosers that late in the year.

[hunter1947]

In the EK there always are cattle in lots of areas i hunt ,believe me you can't do nothing about it. We tried to do something about it back about 10 years ago and got no wear. It was like beating your head against a brick wall.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif.

[6616]

You wouldn't work for the MOFR by chance would you?:razz:


NO,,,, and never have, but I do deal with them enough to know what they're up against.

Still, that's no genuine excuse for allowing the range health to deteriorate.

[6616]

Yet another prime example of how an unified and informed group with a collective effort could make a difference.
A single back country hick, trying to vent with no real background, is not going to be recognized as a complaint. People have to assemble as groups to ahve a voice that is heard.

The Forest Practices board has to respond to every complaint officially registered. Of course many are rejected rather quickly, to make a difference the complaint needs to have good data and information along with it. An org like the WSSOBC could put one together I'll bet, lots of knowlegable members living around that area.

[bucktrack]

Looks as though we have a group right here. Put in a petition. To make anything happen you need voices, evidence, and persistance. Its funny this was brought up. Hunting Deer this year in the OKanagan, I the soil was basically turned over. There was no grass, weeds, or what ever. the thought crossed my mind as I hunted in 1st week of november that there is nothing to eat for the deer. I know they will survive, but as valley bottoms get fenced off, and the range land gets tilled buy the cows where are they supposed to goto eat. I wish I packed my camera because I would have taken pictures and registered a complaint. Next year I will for sure. I never mind a few cattle but the whole area wreak of them and there were even a few left in the area in november.

[6616]

Looks as though we have a group right here. Put in a petition. To make anything happen you need voices, evidence, and persistance. Its funny this was brought up. Hunting Deer this year in the OKanagan, I the soil was basically turned over. There was no grass, weeds, or what ever. the thought crossed my mind as I hunted in 1st week of november that there is nothing to eat for the deer. I know they will survive, but as valley bottoms get fenced off, and the range land gets tilled buy the cows where are they supposed to goto eat. I wish I packed my camera because I would have taken pictures and registered a complaint. Next year I will for sure. I never mind a few cattle but the whole area wreak of them and there were even a few left in the area in november.

And people wonder why there's so much depredation on orchards and hayfields, with ungulate winter range in that kind of shape the answer is pretty clear,,,,???? .....and the ranchers say it's because there's too many deer and elk....????

The forage on Crown land is supposed to be allocated half for wildlife.

[boxhitch]

. An org like the WSSOBC could put one together I'll bet, lots of knowlegable members living around that area.It just takes that first step, of someone putting together an initial report with details, and submitting where needed. I'm sure the WSS is concerned wherever Wild Sheep habitat is affected.

[Aaron Blom]

Sorry boys been away for the holidays and not checking in. I in no way wanted to start this as a bash the MOFR, in the range departments they are severly under staffed, it is the only department in my mind that could use some beefing up and I work in the forest industry. I know very well there are ways to go about finding ou the legal status of land, leased or private however I do not believe that it is public knowledge. I do believe that we as hunters have a right to try and protect the winter ranges of the game we hunt be it deer, sheep, elk or moose to a lesser extent. I did talk to an individual over the holidays who seemed to think that in most areas of the caribou the deer herds were at, or near carrying capacity. Me being me I asked him why he thought this, his answer the grass was all gone?? Decent answer for some one who is not out there during the fall, however I believe that with the acerated harvest of the mountain pine beetle we actually are more than likely increasing the carring capacity to an extent. This will more than likely be resolve with a old fashoined winter but for know no problem. It si the key grassland areas that concern me in that traditional winter ranges are being rendered ineffective due to overgrazing and introduction of non-native species, some of which a detremental to cattle.

[6616]

[quote=Aaron Blom;227211]I know very well there are ways to go about finding ou the legal status of land, leased or private however I do not believe that it is public knowledge. I do believe that we as hunters have a right to try and protect the winter ranges of the game we hunt be it deer, sheep, elk or moose to a lesser extent. I did talk to an individual over the holidays who seemed to think that in most areas of the caribou the deer herds were at, or near carrying capacity. Me being me I asked him why he thought this, his answer the grass was all gone?? Decent answer for some one who is not out there during the fall, however I believe that with the acerated harvest of the mountain pine beetle we actually are more than likely increasing the carring capacity to an extent.

MOFR has to release the Range Use Plans and Range Stewardship Plans that each tenured cattle grazer must have if a member of the public asks, they are public documents, however trying to get one is like pulling teeth. the range person will ask you the official name of the range unit, maybe the ranchers name, etc, and if you don't know these your probably hooped. There are often multiple tenures on the same range unit, you need know whose cows you are seeing.

Studies by Brian Wikeem in the East Kootenay have indicated there is 125% more forage in wet years compared to drought years, yet there's the same number of cattle out there every year regardless of rainfall. What it boils down to is that there is a variable amount of forage for wildlife in different years. Overgrazing results in the dry years.

Carrying capacity is a complicated number to come up with as it varies with many factors, often on an annual basis.

[Onesock]

Good post here. Very informative.

[Aaron Blom]

6616, I agree with you, however wildlife is one of our most valuable resources and our most negelected, just look at the CO's, under staffed and very small budgets. The amount of research being done on the what the public believes to be the more important species is mind numbing to me.

[6616]

6616, I agree with you, however wildlife is one of our most valuable resources and our most negelected, just look at the CO's, under staffed and very small budgets. The amount of research being done on the what the public believes to be the more important species is mind numbing to me.

Couldn't agree more. We've been fighting it for years. Range Management consideres ranchers their main client group and wildlife a pain in the butt (in some cases). Thankfully this attitude is much less prevalent today than it was a decade ago. Actions still speak louder than words and I don't see enough of it (IE range assessements, management repsonse to overgrazing, etc.)

PS, are you related to Tom from Cranbrook?