Feral people

[gutpile]

What do think, are there feral people in BC ?

[jan.wi97]

Head down to East Hastings and take your pick… I’d say there are plenty

[olympia]

Head down to East Hastings and take your pick… I’d say there are plenty

You don't need to go to East Hastings for that anymore. Head a few minutes up any logging road in BC that's just 5 minutes out of town. There are colonies of them living out there. Seen them with my own eyes. I was ripping around outside of squamish up near Paradise Valley and found 3 seperate encampments, 2 of them had makeshift sheds with firewood stacked underneath. Outside Pemberton is another hotspot, one group near my Currie moved into a camping area and refused to leave...one of them lit his car on fire with the reasoning "if I burn it you can't seize it"...this is where we are at now. Thanks to Gordon Campbell closing down all those mental health facilities years ago and no preceding govts reopening them. Those people all ended up in the justice system and on the streets now.

[horseman2]

It is my opinion the process of shutting down the institutions housing was started by the NDP as a followup with Charter Rights.
Regardless of who started it, no one is willing to fix the problem other than with fell good solutions.
Free drugs, safe injection sites, housing and a failing justice system is not a solution and no amount of money will fix the present situation.

[HappyJack]

Money is the biggest reason they don't do anything about it. Too expensive to put them into forced treatment, it's cheaper to give them free drugs till they die. Maybe they just need to give them a dose to end it all?

[Iron Glove]

You don't need to go to East Hastings for that anymore. Head a few minutes up any logging road in BC that's just 5 minutes out of town. There are colonies of them living out there. Seen them with my own eyes. I was ripping around outside of squamish up near Paradise Valley and found 3 seperate encampments, 2 of them had makeshift sheds with firewood stacked underneath. Outside Pemberton is another hotspot, one group near my Currie moved into a camping area and refused to leave...one of them lit his car on fire with the reasoning "if I burn it you can't seize it"...this is where we are at now. Thanks to Gordon Campbell closing down all those mental health facilities years ago and no preceding govts reopening them. Those people all ended up in the justice system and on the streets now.

The shutting down of facilities was done by both Gordon Campbell and Clark. The "blame" can be placed on both. Clark decided, with good intentions no doubt, to remove folks from "Institutional Life" and place them in "better" facilities but those facilities were few and far between. At the time, the Husband of one of my Employees was a Senior Dr. at Riverview and I asked him what he felt about it. Our Family was caught up in the "drug" bit. He said "They will be released, they will head to the DTES as that's the only place that can provide cheap housing. There, as there are virtually no services available, they will become "dual diagnosed", i.e. mentally ill AND drug addicted."
Yup, I guess he nailed it.
Good intentions but not well planned out.
At that time we were told that our young Family Member had maybe a 10% chance of ever leading a normal life. He's one of the 10%.

[britman101]

The homeless problem is right across Canada, as every province has its share of homeless people. As the cost of shelter, food and clothing goes up so will the numbers of people living on the streets and in the bush. What is the solution, that is the million dollar question to be answered. However, I expect the problem to get a lot worse before it gets better.

[Troopster]

I have noticed more and more on the FSRs closer to town (shuswap). Lots of camps with trash and collection of cars, trucks, motorhomes and ORV being torn apart. Seems like they move (or get moved) from one spot, leave all the trash behind then shack up the next road over.

Just sent in a report to RAPP this weekend on their online service for a camp that has been around all winter that has gone through the trash, relocate and trash again system. I'm not optimistic that anything will come of it but maybe reporting it frequently will get some resolve....the squeaky wheel gets greased.

I do see plenty of "camps" that are in the bush as well that seem to be semi permanent, hidden off to the side with no trash or anything around. Some of them have a better firewood pile than I do and they even have been plowing the FSR in winter so they can get out. Legally im sure they're considered the same but I don't care as much when they respect the forest everyone uses, especially when you pass one disaster zone camp before you see theirs.

[Onepunch]

I started seeing camps pop up in large #'s last sprin bear season ( right now). I put this into a few catagories:
* addiction and mentel illness. What looks like the most dire of the catagories. Mostly in cities as opposed to forrests and rural areas. How we got here and how to fix it, no clue. Folks living on the streets, shelters, tent camps. Can be Highly unpredictable and dangerous at times. A very hi chance of mortality from overdose and degrading health.


* professional squatters. Groups who have the means to be functional but chose not to based on level of entitlement and disagreement with societal norms. Thats the ones who like to look intimidating and get in your grilll when you discover them. Sketchy, possibly violent, definatly supported by crime ( theft and drugs?). Once they dig in they act like its going to take a fight to get them out of an area. Organized and capable. Maybe even errecting buildings to live in. There by choice AND circumstance.

* The newly poor by insane inflation and housing costs. Ive seen these increase the most. Retires, living in campers or cars on low fixed incomes. Mostly wanting to blend in and be ignored. This could be students. too. I see new ones popping up when the trades apprentices are in school. This could include the working poor too. Have low income jobs or at least seeking work.

Mistakes have been made by all and some are a blend of all three sometimes. The numbers seem to be going up in every catagory. I dont excpect it to get much better anytime soon.

[horshur]

Jamison fsr in kamloops is a new subdivision..some camps at least two years occupied. I remember forestry burning cabins on public land..So what changed?

[Walking Buffalo]

Money is the biggest reason they don't do anything about it. Too expensive to put them into forced treatment, it's cheaper to give them free drugs till they die. Maybe they just need to give them a dose to end it all?

That's very Woke.

[TeeVee]

Jamison fsr in kamloops is a new subdivision..some camps at least two years occupied. I remember forestry burning cabins on public land..So what changed?
That guy with the trailer and tents has been there by the bridge for at least 3 years. Always waving and friendly looking when you drive by though.

[horshur]

That guy with the trailer and tents has been there by the bridge for at least 3 years. Always waving and friendly looking when you drive by though.

Tidy camp too

[zero64]

If I were homeless and had nowhere else to go I'd be out on a logging road long before I'd be in one of these city-squatting setups or at a highway rest area.

[Squamch]

Jamison fsr in kamloops is a new subdivision..some camps at least two years occupied. I remember forestry burning cabins on public land..So what changed?

Oh don't worry, they still burn cabins when they find them.

[high horse Hal]

The Okanagan Forest Task Force is a local group of volunteers that spend their extra time cleaning up the trash left after these camps are abandoned
They know well where the activity is but hands are tied to do anything while camps are occupied
It seems the spaces they clean are repopulated pretty quick
The timber supervisor at Balcean has her hands full each spring with new 'squatters' on their leases

[HappyJack]

A Universal basic income would help the hopeful out IF they could find affordable accommodations. We used to call it welfare but it works the same.

[j270wsm]

Instead of stealing more money from tax payers….maybe they should get off the drugs and get a job.

[HappyJack]

Instead of stealing more money from tax payers….maybe they should get off the drugs and get a job.

The problem is once they are heavy into the drugs changes occur in the brain and they no longer have to ability to make rational decisions. So the idea while sound just won't work, they need to be forcefully put into treatment, let them yell and scream all they want, and once they are clean for a fairly long period of time you could release them to see if they can maintain sobriety. If the fall off the wagon, send them back into treatment immediately before they sink real deep in again.

You must realize nobody hires drug addicts.

[MRP]

Oh don't worry, they still burn cabins when they find them.

I know of rufly of a 100 cabins, over half I'm sure are unregistered. I've only seen one burned but don't know if a accident or on purpose.

[Walking Buffalo]

The problem is once they are heavy into the drugs changes occur in the brain and they no longer have to ability to make rational decisions. So the idea while sound just won't work, they need to be forcefully put into treatment, let them yell and scream all they want, and once they are clean for a fairly long period of time you could release them to see if they can maintain sobriety. If the fall off the wagon, send them back into treatment immediately before they sink real deep in again.

You must realize nobody hires drug addicts.

You must realize how wrong this is....

Addicts are repairing our vehicles, providing health care, legal advise, running your banks and investment portfolios, on and on for "functioning" addicts.

"Feral" and "Non functioning" addicts are also employed, or perhaps more concisely subcontracted....
Drug trade, sex trade, theft trades, and such... and of course, they are "employed" by the Health care, housing and legal system as without the addicts, MANY doctors, nurses, counselors, pharmaceutical providers, judges, lawyers, police, politicians and bureaucrats would be without work.

[Woodchuck Dan]

I started seeing camps pop up in large #'s last sprin bear season ( right now). I put this into a few catagories:
* addiction and mentel illness. What looks like the most dire of the catagories. Mostly in cities as opposed to forrests and rural areas. How we got here and how to fix it, no clue. Folks living on the streets, shelters, tent camps. Can be Highly unpredictable and dangerous at times. A very hi chance of mortality from overdose and degrading health.


* professional squatters. Groups who have the means to be functional but chose not to based on level of entitlement and disagreement with societal norms. Thats the ones who like to look intimidating and get in your grilll when you discover them. Sketchy, possibly violent, definatly supported by crime ( theft and drugs?). Once they dig in they act like its going to take a fight to get them out of an area. Organized and capable. Maybe even errecting buildings to live in. There by choice AND circumstance.

* The newly poor by insane inflation and housing costs. Ive seen these increase the most. Retires, living in campers or cars on low fixed incomes. Mostly wanting to blend in and be ignored. This could be students. too. I see new ones popping up when the trades apprentices are in school. This could include the working poor too. Have low income jobs or at least seeking work.

Mistakes have been made by all and some are a blend of all three sometimes. The numbers seem to be going up in every category. I don't excpect it to get much better anytime soon.


I feel like this is a pretty accurate and non-judgmental depiction of the types of people you find living in the bush.

Just wanted to put my two cents in here. I've spent quite a few years working in mental health - Homeless shelters, safe injection, suicide prevention, mobile street outreach teams.

I would caution people against making snap judgements of unhoused populations. Yes there are individuals who would rather spend a mortgage payment on heroin. There are predatory and just generally shitty street level people. They make up a very small percentage of folks you will run into.

Most of the homeless people I have gotten to know and supported to not fall into the above category. I meet veterans, who have fallen through the cracks of our social system and who carry severe PTSD. I meet people who's partners have died tragically and their lives slowly unravel over the period of roughly 10 years until they are on the streets addicted to opiates. I meet other people whose lives have been cripples by chronic injuries. I meet elderly people whose pensions are insufficient to house them who also have complex health histories.

There are also many folks without family support or education who for a number of reasons beyond their control lost their job. Once the bills started piling up out the door they go. Once homeless, it becomes increasingly more difficult to obtain housing and employment and they spiral farther into this hole. The term is becoming "entrenched". Try finding a place to take a shit when you look like a street person, let alone an apartment or a job. Also, try maintaining sobriety as you become more and more exhausted and sleep deprived as you live in this kind of space.

I meet other people who have education and were making good money and still end up in this situation when a crisis hits their lives.


It is very, very, easy for your life to change rapidly and for you to end up in a situation where you are unhoused and squatting. It's unfortunate that many folks who end up in this situation do not have the life skills necessary to properly dispose of their waste and it damages both the forest and the reputation of people in their situation.

I don't have solutions here. However I think that if you looked honestly at your own life and situation you may find you are not as far away from these people as you would like to be.


*Edit* As an aside - I did seriously consider squatting about 3 years ago when I lost my housing and was bouncing from a series of sub-lets in the country. The biggest barrier for me was the inability to be able to have a vehicle in the winter with access to a road so I could continue to work. The only work around I could think of was to approach someone, pay them a monthly fee for a spot in their driveway, and squat within walking distance of their property.

It still seems to me like an interesting challenge to life off grid on crown land - and to keep a clean camp / low impact in the process. It's so much additional energy to live off grid + the potential for the feds to come and destroy all your work it keeps me in rentals.

[browningboy]

First step make drugs illegal,again, second get a big island where you can’t swim off to mainland and stick them there, they can be “Lord of the flies” and figure stuff out, no drugs on the island but have necessities to get by.
The strong will survive, and that’s who you want to survive.

Obviously no easy answer, costs are very high and the wages that people earned weren’t sufficient as well so it’s a nasty world and it won’t get easier. In reality if we had predators that ate humans for say (like animal kingdom) they would be toast.

[HappyJack]

A question for those with experience:

Those drug addicts you see videos of, the ones with a heads hanging down, messed up, looking like zombies. Can those people ever be cleaned up and return to normal society? Or are they hopelessly addicted?? The first time I saw that video my first thought was 'head shot, put them out of their misery', like you'd do with suffering animal.