10 million on wolf cull

[MRP]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/10m-spent-on-b-c-wolf-cull-fatal-shooting-details-revealed-foi-documents-1.7065846

It's beyond my hillbilly comprehension.

[mooseknuckler]

Good to see the province putting efforts into wildlife management! We need more!

[RugDoctor]

If I read that correctly….10 million bucks to kill 1,944 wolves. Nobody can **** up better than government.

[MRP]

Yup $5000 each, not even stuffed and mounted yet. A $1000 bounty would be insensitive to get even dog and his man out looking for em. That Vanderhoof hillbilly would clean up. ;)

[Fella]

So what’s the better solution? Are there enough trappers who would heavily concentrate on areas where wolves are needed to be removed out of the goodness of their own hearts? Trapping is not a cheap casual exercise from what I know, gas bait and time ain’t cheap!

[ElliotMoose]

Sounds like a lot of dough but unless they hire highly skilled trappers this is the most effective way. Hunting wolves is not an easy game and traditional hunting methods are not overly effective. I don’t mind investments like this, they are a step in the right direction, where as the millions they’re spending on bringing in foreign “professionals” culling deer in areas that boast high numbers of skilled hunters is just beyond my comprehension. One step forward, two steps back

[hawk-i]

And yet the "scholars" in Colorado just reintroduced 5 wolves into the wild...go figure!!

[RugDoctor]

So what’s the better solution? Are there enough trappers who would heavily concentrate on areas where wolves are needed to be removed out of the goodness of their own hearts? Trapping is not a cheap casual exercise from what I know, gas bait and time ain’t cheap!
I’m thinking I could put a team together, be there in a day or two, kill 2000 wolves, and not take 8 years to do it or cost 10 million dollars.

[elker]

I’m thinking I could put a team together, be there in a day or two, kill 2000 wolves, and not take 8 years to do it or cost 10 million dollars.

yes, yours is surely a better option. Let the hunters do it.

however, give the prior BC government the credit where it was due. They spent money on the wildlife managment, and there was a good result from it.

A total of 1,944 wolves have been killed since 2015, according to the Ministry of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship, which said in an email to CBC News that predator reduction measures on 13 of B.C.'s 54 caribou herds have helped to stabilize or increase populations.

[elker]

Good to see the province under the Liberal govenment putting efforts into wildlife management! We need more!

corrected for you. NDP did nothing

[RugDoctor]

yes, yours is surely a better option. Let the hunters do it.

however, give the prior BC government the credit where it was due. They spent money on the wildlife managment, and there was a good result from it.

A total of 1,944 wolves have been killed since 2015, according to the Ministry of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship, which said in an email to CBC News that predator reduction measures on 13 of B.C.'s 54 caribou herds have helped to stabilize or increase populations.




As you are, I’m glad something was accomplished. I have trouble giving credit to an outfit that did something they should rightly do, and then billed me 5x what it should’ve cost.

If someone is charged with changing the oil in my truck I would expect to pay for services rendered….but not 5 times over

I’m sure there was a study within a study, and a study to study the study. Probably an oversight committee and someone appointed to watch over that committee. a watchdog committee, and of course the obligatory consultation with special interest groups with no educational background on the topic but have some stories to tell. Oh, and of course the Feelings Committee.

[HarryToolips]

Considering the time and resources devoted to the habitat restoration, in addition to the documentation proving that they are eliminating wolves in a humane way, and considering how much area they'd have to cover and time it would take to eliminate that many wolves, I'm not surprised it cost that much... glad to see they're actually making an effort to reduce wolves ... too bad we'll have snowflakes that are ignorant to what's going on with BC wildlife dynamics that will pressure the govt to stop the cull...

[srupp]

hmm the cost of the deer cull when 40% killed were not even the targeted species..nauseating..
srupp

[tri777]

hmm the cost of the deer cull when 40% killed were not even the targeted species..nauseating..
srupp
https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1738216884657414413


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB9jC1kWIAAtgsq?format=jpg&name=900x900

[180grainer]

https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1738216884657414413


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GB9jC1kWIAAtgsq?format=jpg&name=900x900
They could have sold the opportunity to the hunting public to ride around in a helicopter and shoot wolves and made money instead of spending it on Government employees who probably can't shoot to begin with. Hell, the LEH would have covered the cost they spent.

[IronNoggin]

They could have sold the opportunity to the hunting public to ride around in a helicopter and shoot wolves and made money instead of spending it on Government employees who probably can't shoot to begin with. Hell, the LEH would have covered the cost they spent.

Not "government employees"

Two US & one Kiwi - Mercenaries.

Point is valid though.

[breakaction]

Not "government employees"

Two US & one Kiwi - Mercenaries.

Point is valid though.

With the typical conflict of interest in the bidding process:

https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/conflict-of-interest-concern-raised-for-sidney-island-deer-cull-contract-7366573

[IronNoggin]

With the typical conflict of interest in the bidding process:
https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/conflict-of-interest-concern-raised-for-sidney-island-deer-cull-contract-7366573


There are so many factual errors in that "article" as to render it completely useless.

[breakaction]

There are so many factual errors in that "article" as to render it completely useless.

Pretty straight forward that when you consult on a project then bid on said project and win. The framework they designed suited the services they could provide, at a cost that they chose.

[IronNoggin]

https://i.imgur.com/92LiDaH.jpg

[Darksith]

Hunters are terrible management tools in regards to predators, specifically wolves but also coyotes and cats. We aren't committed enough, have the resources or the skillset to do it effectively. Trappers are a good way to do it, but there needs to be a reason for them to do it. The seasons are super short as they need to get their bait in and so they have to wait for it to be economical for them to sled it in or it needs to be air lifted in which makes it uneconomical for them to target wolves. The helicopter program using GPS collars has been very effective, but it can't be the only tool being utilized. There is simply too much cover to locate and eradicate them, but it has proven to produce instant results in regards to ungulate herd populations.

We shouldn't be sticking our noses up at this but rather backing them up and applauding them, in this instance we are on the same team. We need more support on a lot of fronts from government but at least this is a step in the right direction. Next is taking them out of the management pyramid and putting in the correct representatives and funding to continue to do positive things for BC Wildlife, specifically ungulates.

[RugDoctor]

Hunters are terrible management tools in regards to predators, specifically wolves but also coyotes and cats. We aren't committed enough, have the resources or the skillset to do it effectively. Trappers are a good way to do it, but there needs to be a reason for them to do it. The seasons are super short as they need to get their bait in and so they have to wait for it to be economical for them to sled it in or it needs to be air lifted in which makes it uneconomical for them to target wolves. The helicopter program using GPS collars has been very effective, but it can't be the only tool being utilized. There is simply too much cover to locate and eradicate them, but it has proven to produce instant results in regards to ungulate herd populations.

We shouldn't be sticking our noses up at this but rather backing them up and applauding them, in this instance we are on the same team. We need more support on a lot of fronts from government but at least this is a step in the right direction. Next is taking them out of the management pyramid and putting in the correct representatives and funding to continue to do positive things for BC Wildlife, specifically ungulates.
Isn’t this kinda like saying you should bet on the losing horse because he tries real hard? Invest in the spiralling stock because everyone at the company works hard…..I mean, they may not get much done, or be any good at what they do, and they charge twice as much….but you should applaud their efforts. And in the case of government, we’re applauding with our money.

No thanks. Government get so little done right, and costs twice as much as any other organization…..I’m sorry but I can’t applaud that.

[180grainer]

Hunters are terrible management tools in regards to predators, specifically wolves but also coyotes and cats. We aren't committed enough, have the resources or the skillset to do it effectively. Trappers are a good way to do it, but there needs to be a reason for them to do it. The seasons are super short as they need to get their bait in and so they have to wait for it to be economical for them to sled it in or it needs to be air lifted in which makes it uneconomical for them to target wolves. The helicopter program using GPS collars has been very effective, but it can't be the only tool being utilized. There is simply too much cover to locate and eradicate them, but it has proven to produce instant results in regards to ungulate herd populations.

We shouldn't be sticking our noses up at this but rather backing them up and applauding them, in this instance we are on the same team. We need more support on a lot of fronts from government but at least this is a step in the right direction. Next is taking them out of the management pyramid and putting in the correct representatives and funding to continue to do positive things for BC Wildlife, specifically ungulates.
Let's start with no bag limit all year round for residents. Relax trapping regs. Sell tickets for a once in a life time helicopter wolf hunt to the general hunting public who can demonstrate firearm proficiency for such an awesome adventure and meaningful contribution to game management. Should come with a small plague thanking the Hunter for their service.

[RugDoctor]

Let's start with no bag limit all year round for residents. Relax trapping regs. Sell tickets for a once in a life time helicopter wolf hunt to the general hunting public who can demonstrate firearm proficiency for such an awesome adventure and meaningful contribution to game management. Should come with a small plague thanking the Hunter for their service.
Given the current administrations….I don’t think this is a typo….

[Darksith]

Isn’t this kinda like saying you should bet on the losing horse because he tries real hard? Invest in the spiralling stock because everyone at the company works hard…..I mean, they may not get much done, or be any good at what they do, and they charge twice as much….but you should applaud their efforts. And in the case of government, we’re applauding with our money.

No thanks. Government get so little done right, and costs twice as much as any other organization…..I’m sorry but I can’t applaud that.

Its been a huge success, you don't have your facts right. The alternative is to carry on with the status quo which was do nothing and didn't help us. While this has been going on for a number of years, the cost per year isn't really that much, and it has had an immediate measurable positive impact on ungulate numbers where they are doing this. Hard for us common folk to fathom but in the big scheme its not a huge dollar amount.


Let's start with no bag limit all year round for residents. Relax trapping regs. Sell tickets for a once in a life time helicopter wolf hunt to the general hunting public who can demonstrate firearm proficiency for such an awesome adventure and meaningful contribution to game management. Should come with a small plague thanking the Hunter for their service.

there already is a no bag limit basically all year. Resident hunters aren't good wolf killers and 99.9% of resident hunters simply don't have the time or resources to effectively kill a wolf. I would bet theres maybe 100-200 wolves killed a year by resident hunters. Trapping regs aren't holding up trappers, its usually access and time, the trappers will only trap in the winter when the fur is nice and has value, the rest of the year it holds not value and access into these area's when its not frozen is a real challenge, its already a real challenge. You need a lot of bait, way more time and energy than trapping the usual fur bearing animals, selling tickets for a helicopter hunt...sure as a fund raiser for general revenue but it wouldn't impact wolf harvest numbers...and they could simply allocate all of our tags, licenses and LEH fees towards conservation and management instead of the 20% I believe it is and that would be huge. I wouldn't even care if they raised the prices of everything as long as those additional funds went back 100% into management and conservation. There are already bounties on wolves for trappers, there is already funding for things like helicopter fuel to fly in bait, could there be more sure, but the trappers haven't killed as many wolves as the helicopter if Im not mistaken, but I could be, I don't have the current numbers in front of me.

I get it its good to poke at the government and hold them accountable, but in this case we need to applaud them and push for more not simply criticize for the sake of it and actually work with the anti hunters/wolf lovers by accident.

[HarryToolips]

Hunters are terrible management tools in regards to predators, specifically wolves but also coyotes and cats. We aren't committed enough, have the resources or the skillset to do it effectively. Trappers are a good way to do it, but there needs to be a reason for them to do it. The seasons are super short as they need to get their bait in and so they have to wait for it to be economical for them to sled it in or it needs to be air lifted in which makes it uneconomical for them to target wolves. The helicopter program using GPS collars has been very effective, but it can't be the only tool being utilized. There is simply too much cover to locate and eradicate them, but it has proven to produce instant results in regards to ungulate herd populations.

We shouldn't be sticking our noses up at this but rather backing them up and applauding them, in this instance we are on the same team. We need more support on a lot of fronts from government but at least this is a step in the right direction. Next is taking them out of the management pyramid and putting in the correct representatives and funding to continue to do positive things for BC Wildlife, specifically ungulates.
Good post..............

[HarryToolips]

Isn’t this kinda like saying you should bet on the losing horse because he tries real hard? Invest in the spiralling stock because everyone at the company works hard…..I mean, they may not get much done, or be any good at what they do, and they charge twice as much….but you should applaud their efforts. And in the case of government, we’re applauding with our money.

No thanks. Government get so little done right, and costs twice as much as any other organization…..I’m sorry but I can’t applaud that.
It's better than them doing nothing still....and given the complications of the task at hand, the $$ spent isn't all too excessive, I would think....

[180grainer]

Its been a huge success, you don't have your facts right. The alternative is to carry on with the status quo which was do nothing and didn't help us. While this has been going on for a number of years, the cost per year isn't really that much, and it has had an immediate measurable positive impact on ungulate numbers where they are doing this. Hard for us common folk to fathom but in the big scheme its not a huge dollar amount.



there already is a no bag limit basically all year. Resident hunters aren't good wolf killers and 99.9% of resident hunters simply don't have the time or resources to effectively kill a wolf. I would bet theres maybe 100-200 wolves killed a year by resident hunters. Trapping regs aren't holding up trappers, its usually access and time, the trappers will only trap in the winter when the fur is nice and has value, the rest of the year it holds not value and access into these area's when its not frozen is a real challenge, its already a real challenge. You need a lot of bait, way more time and energy than trapping the usual fur bearing animals, selling tickets for a helicopter hunt...sure as a fund raiser for general revenue but it wouldn't impact wolf harvest numbers...and they could simply allocate all of our tags, licenses and LEH fees towards conservation and management instead of the 20% I believe it is and that would be huge. I wouldn't even care if they raised the prices of everything as long as those additional funds went back 100% into management and conservation. There are already bounties on wolves for trappers, there is already funding for things like helicopter fuel to fly in bait, could there be more sure, but the trappers haven't killed as many wolves as the helicopter if Im not mistaken, but I could be, I don't have the current numbers in front of me.

I get it its good to poke at the government and hold them accountable, but in this case we need to applaud them and push for more not simply criticize for the sake of it and actually work with the anti hunters/wolf lovers by accident.
Just so we're clear. 10 Million dollars over 8 years to kill 1,944 wolves. Which equates to 1.2 million a year to kill 243 wolves. I wonder how many hunters/trappers would get interested in it if there was a $2000.00 bounty placed on each wolf taken? Given the same numbers of 243 wolves killed every year, it would equate to under $500K a year or 4 million over the same period of 8 years. Sell LEH tags at $10.00 a pop to reduce that even further.

[RugDoctor]

Yeah right….10 million was the exact right amount and government acts responsibly with our money. Got it.

My God……..

[whognu]

Let's start with no bag limit all year round for residents. Relax trapping regs. Sell tickets for a once in a life time helicopter wolf hunt to the general hunting public who can demonstrate firearm proficiency for such an awesome adventure and meaningful contribution to game management. Should come with a small plague thanking the Hunter for their service.


gee 180:

likely offside on soooo many levels but damn, i'd buy a ticket

keep thinking outside the box............


xo

[180grainer]

gee 180:

likely offside on soooo many levels but damn, i'd buy a ticket

keep thinking outside the box............


xo
Only offside if you'e a granola crunching moron from the lower mainland who thinks a true wilderness adventure is a day trip to Stanley Park and who believes in paying twice as much for potentially the same results. After all, it's the Government's money not ours, right?... ;)

[180grainer]

Given the current administrations….I don’t think this is a typo….
LOL, faccccckkkkk. swap that g for a q.

[j270wsm]

Just so we're clear. 10 Million dollars over 8 years to kill 1,944 wolves. Which equates to 1.2 million a year to kill 243 wolves. I wonder how many hunters/trappers would get interested in it if there was a $2000.00 bounty placed on each wolf taken? Given the same numbers of 243 wolves killed every year, it would equate to under $500K a year or 4 million over the same period of 8 years. Sell LEH tags at $10.00 a pop to reduce that even further.

How many wolves are killed by hunters every year?? Even with a bounty of $2000 I doubt you’ll get more than 250 per yr. Even if we did get 250+ per yr the kill locations would be spread all over instead of taking out an entire pack at a time. Our useless government finally did something that will have positive results for ungulates and all we can do is bitch that the final cost was too high….WTF

[RugDoctor]

How many wolves are killed by hunters every year?? Even with a bounty of $2000 I doubt you’ll get more than 250 per yr. Even if we did get 250+ per yr the kill locations would be spread all over instead of taking out an entire pack at a time. Our useless government finally did something that will have positive results for ungulates and all we can do is bitch that the final cost was too high….WTF
Yes. The final cost was too high and I’m bitching about that.

I have a shotgun for sale. You should buy it. It’s really a $2500 gun, but you can give me $5000. Oh….and don’t bitch it cost too much.

I bet you don’t complain about the price of gas at the pump either.

[j270wsm]

considering they’ve basically done nothing over the last 10-15yrs…..I’m a little more willing to look past the final cost, especially when our government finally starts killing wolves to benefit our wildlife populations. Our fuel prices in bc are complete bullshit.

[RugDoctor]

considering they’ve basically done nothing over the last 10-15yrs…..I’m a little more willing to look past the final cost, especially when our government finally starts killing wolves to benefit our wildlife populations. Our fuel prices in bc are complete bullshit.
So you reward procrastination and incompetence with forgiveness when something is finally done at “bullshit” cost….

I’m seriously not trying to be a dick here…..it’s just mind boggling that anyone “forgives” our current governments at any level for anything. They’re screwing us at every turn and just because they leaned slightly in a direction we agree with….we suddenly think it’s just fine that they squander more of our money (agree….not all of that money was squandered….something needed to happen…just not at that cost)? Truly not trying to be rude….it’s just beyond comprehension.

[RugDoctor]

Self reflection….I may be too focused on wanting to hear that the government is a bunch of screw ups….I doubt there’s a bunch of argument on that with the exception of Islandwanderer. He loves him some governments!

Good thing something was done….too bad it took so long and cost so much.

[j270wsm]

We all agree…..island wanderer is special!!!…..and that the government did little to nothing for far too long. Yes the wolf cull was way over priced!! I’m not saying we forgive them for their last minute overpriced actions…..I’m saying that we should be glad that they actually/finally did something that will provide instant benefits to our ungulates.

[180grainer]

Ok, so now that we got that out there and it's a day late and a dollar short. I wonder what Government flunky is starting to think, "yea, a bounty". I wonder how many moose hunters would not also put in to an LEH to harvest wolves in the same area as the moose hunt, at $2000.00 a pop. They don't shoot anything the Government....err I mean you and I, don't pay anything and we pocketed the LEH fee. Good for one year so scouting for your moose, ( deer, sheep) now might be productive and economical during the off season..

[180grainer]

How many wolves are killed by hunters every year?? Even with a bounty of $2000 I doubt you’ll get more than 250 per yr. Even if we did get 250+ per yr the kill locations would be spread all over instead of taking out an entire pack at a time. Our useless government finally did something that will have positive results for ungulates and all we can do is bitch that the final cost was too high….WTF
Who are you to doubt that? And that number was based on what you and I paid 10 million dollars for. Are you kidding me??? If I could put in an LEH for my area which would allow me to harvest as many wolves as possilbe at $2000.00 a wolf, you don't think I'd be all over that? And I know people who would be far more into it than me.

[elker]

Can anyone name one example that the government has ever done with the benefit/cost as efficiently and effectively as this wolf culling?

[RugDoctor]

Can anyone name one example that the government has ever done with the benefit/cost as efficiently and effectively as this wolf culling?
Is the questions intent to make one think this kind of overspend is okay because it’s not as bad as the usual overspend? As in, set the bar low so the peasants expect terrible, and when we only give them bad, they think we’re heros……..

[digger dogger]

Is the questions intent to make one think this kind of overspend is okay because it’s not as bad as the usual overspend? As in, set the bar low so the peasants expect terrible, and when we only give them bad, they think we’re heros……..

POW! Nailed it!!!

[180grainer]

Can anyone name one example that the government has ever done with the benefit/cost as efficiently and effectively as this wolf culling?
The only way to truely measure whether or not this was both efficient and effective is to compare its cost and results with the cost and results of an alternative. They essentially paid 1.2 million dollars to kill 243 wolves. Lets compare that to a $2000.00 bounty on all wolves and an unlimited harvest for wolves at that price under LEH for areas where wolves have become a problem and need reduction. I'd love to see them do that just to see what the results would be.

In the vast majority of cases, if you want efficient and effective, Government has to get out of the way.

[elker]

The only way to truely measure whether or not this was both efficient and effective is to compare its cost and results with the cost and results of an alternative. They essentially paid 1.2 million dollars to kill 243 wolves. Lets compare that to a $2000.00 bounty on all wolves and an unlimited harvest for wolves at that price under LEH for areas where wolves have become a problem and need reduction. I'd love to see them do that just to see what the results would be.

In the vast majority of cases, if you want efficient and effective, Government has to get out of the way.

agree. I would close my office for two months and go hunting if the government put $2000 bounty for each wolf.

Park Canada spent millions for culling the fallow deer in the tiny Sidney Island. Comparing the deer culling with this wolf culling, we have to give the prior BC Liberals some credit.

[SSG-man]

The only way to truely measure whether or not this was both efficient and effective is to compare its cost and results with the cost and results of an alternative. They essentially paid 1.2 million dollars to kill 243 wolves. Lets compare that to a $2000.00 bounty on all wolves and an unlimited harvest for wolves at that price under LEH for areas where wolves have become a problem and need reduction. I'd love to see them do that just to see what the results would be.
In the vast majority of cases, if you want efficient and effective, Government has to get out of the way.

A bounty would be cool.
I think a lot of qualified people would produce results.

Govt doesn't trust us and we don't trust them.

[180grainer]

agree. I would close my office for two months and go hunting if the government put $2000 bounty for each wolf.

Park Canada spent millions for culling the fallow deer in the tiny Sidney Island. Comparing the deer culling with this wolf culling, we have to give the prior BC Liberals some credit.
So would lots of people. Hence the Government only pays for the end result, a dead wolf. They won't pay helicopter fees or pay helicopter heros to shoot them before the results are achieved. They don't pay for your gas or any associated cost with your hunt. They only pay for the end result. Given 1 million dollars set aside, the Government could potentially see twice the number of wolves taken for less than the price they paid for the chopper hunt.

[Ambush]

There is not one person on here birching about this that could do the same job for much less money. And it would take you ten more years to get organized and kill that many. You guys act like you can just hop on a sled and go kill a whole pack of wolves in a select area, if you got paid half that amount. Bullshit! How many of you bitching have shot a wolf, two wolves or five wolves or an entire pack? How many of you have a helicopter and spotter planes? How much does a suitable chopper cost per hour? Plane?

The government always pays way more and is always way less efficient than private business. Buts that’s because a business knows what it’s doing and has to turn a profit or die. How many of you guys have a large scale wolf killing business for hire?

While the cost is high at least the results are good and very effective. And I’d rather see excess money “wasted” on this than a lot of the other bullshit they throw millions at!

[RugDoctor]

There is not one person on here birching about this that could do the same job for much less money. And it would take you ten more years to get organized and kill that many. You guys act like you can just hop on a sled and go kill a whole pack of wolves in a select area, if you got paid half that amount. Bullshit! How many of you bitching have shot a wolf, two wolves or five wolves or an entire pack? How many of you have a helicopter and spotter planes? How much does a suitable chopper cost per hour? Plane?

The government always pays way more and is always way less efficient than private business. Buts that’s because a business knows what it’s doing and has to turn a profit or die. How many of you guys have a large scale wolf killing business for hire?

While the cost is high at least the results are good and very effective. And I’d rather see excess money “wasted” on this than a lot of the other bullshit they throw millions at!
Awesome. You’d rather waste money here than other places. That makes it okay. Oh, and the government always costs more and is less efficient….so that makes it okay.

You’re too easily conditioned my friend.

[SSG-man]

There's the hostility towards hunters again.

[RugDoctor]

There's the hostility towards hunters again.
To be clear, my hostility is towards government waste. It seems we all agree it was a worthy project but what some can’t come to terms with is that they paid out of their own money and it was over priced. The government has a responsibility to the taxpayers to be fiscally responsible….and just because you support the project doesn’t mean they didn’t over spend. And just because this over spend may not be as exorbitant as others, doesn’t make it okay.

[Ambush]

Awesome. You’d rather waste money here than other places. That makes it okay. Oh, and the government always costs more and is less efficient….so that makes it okay.

You’re too easily conditioned my friend.

And you just like to blindly bitch.

The three caribou herds in the north that I pay attention to have gone from a ten percent yearly decline to now a fifteen percent year over year increase for the past six years. On only the strength of wolf culls! Maybe we should just piss, moan and hand wring about the government until they are all gone, then whine that the government did nothing. After years of chicken shit studies they finally have the balls to do something and all
you can do is bitch. They finally ignore the urban antis and do what is right and you aren’t happy with that either.

Go get an actual quote together to do the job cheaper and get back to us!

Oh , and while I’m insulting your intelligence anyway, if your gullible enough to think Islandwanderer is serious, you really shouldn’t be accusing other people of being dumb sheep.

[SSG-man]

To be clear, my hostility is towards government waste. It seems we all agree it was a worthy project but what some can’t come to terms with is that they paid out of their own money and it was over priced. The government has a responsibility to the taxpayers to be fiscally responsible….and just because you support the project doesn’t mean they didn’t over spend. And just because this over spend may not be as exorbitant as others, doesn’t make it okay.


I get that and agree with you, not responding to you in particular.

Do the cull if the herds are in dire need of assistance, just think about a future bounty in some areas too.

[RugDoctor]

And you just like to blindly bitch.

The three caribou herds in the north that I pay attention to have gone from a ten percent yearly decline to now a fifteen percent year over year increase for the past six years. On only the strength of wolf culls! Maybe we should just piss, moan and hand wring about the government until they are all gone, then whine that the government did nothing. After years of chicken shit studies they finally have the balls to do something and all
you can do is bitch. They finally ignore the urban antis and do what is right and you aren’t happy with that either.

Go get an actual quote together to do the job cheaper and get back to us!

Oh , and while I’m insulting your intelligence anyway, if your gullible enough to think Islandwanderer is serious, you really shouldn’t be accusing other people of being dumb sheep.
Since you agree that we are no insulting intelligence….If you’re too stupid to read the numerous times I’ve said that it’s a good cause, that’s on you. I don’t like the waste. I’ll help you a little here since you’re clearly challenged…..waste doesn’t mean the entire project, or the intent….it’s the over spending. Again, since you’re clearly simple……over spending means that it didn’t need to cost as much as they spent.

Finally, since you’re clearly too stupid to read other posts before shooting your big mouth off…..If you had the brain power to read many other posts, you’d see that I’ve many times credited Islandwanderer for baiting the simpletons like you into thinking he’s serious. He’s quite successful….I’m surprised you caught his wit…..good on you for catching one!

[Ambush]

^^^^ hahaha! The exact response I expected.

You epitomize the reason for the obvious decline of a once popular site.

[RugDoctor]

^^^^ hahaha! The exact response I expected.

You epitomize the reason for the obvious decline of a once popular site.
Nice deflection…..you act like an ass and then blame someone for reacting. What are you….12? Grow up man…..you want to be part of adult conversations, act like an adult.

Being an ass shouldn’t always be consequence free…..people like you expect others to be the better person so you can continue to act like a dummy.

[180grainer]

And you just like to blindly bitch.

The three caribou herds in the north that I pay attention to have gone from a ten percent yearly decline to now a fifteen percent year over year increase for the past six years. On only the strength of wolf culls! Maybe we should just piss, moan and hand wring about the government until they are all gone, then whine that the government did nothing. After years of chicken shit studies they finally have the balls to do something and all
you can do is bitch. They finally ignore the urban antis and do what is right and you aren’t happy with that either.

Go get an actual quote together to do the job cheaper and get back to us!

Oh , and while I’m insulting your intelligence anyway, if your gullible enough to think Islandwanderer is serious, you really shouldn’t be accusing other people of being dumb sheep.
This where your logic falls down. I think you're correct that most wolf kills are opportunistic. But that's because there's no bounty. If you put $2000.00 bounty on wolves the numbers of hunters out looking to cash in on that would have a significant impact. Even going sledding for a day, maybe ice fishing with a Fox Pro, out scouting next years moose or deer habitat. I could also imagine trappers being very interested knowing they get that money up front no hassle providing they produce a wolf. Maybe a cheaper chopper hunt down the road because the numbers aren't as high do to the bounty.

Bottom line. Put a bounty on them and see what happens. Again, the Government is only going to pay resident hunters for results achieved without having to pay wages, lodging and chopper expenses. They've spent 10 million dollars over 8 years. Put money aside and see what the residents do. If you're right and very few wolves are shot, the Government hasn't lost anything. I actually think your wrong. There are guys out there who know what they're doing that would get right horny on this at 2 grand a pop.

And I also should point out that $2000.00 is "half the price" the Government paid for the chopper hunt to kill wolves each year.

[Ambush]

180, you can think that bounty would work all you want, but it won’t. This wolf cull is very specific to areas for the protection of designated herds. Nobody is going to grab their Foxpro , jump on their sled and go wipeout an entire pack of wolves in a couple of months. Thats just feel good dreaming even if the desire was there. Incidental kill of a couple hundred wolves spread over all of BC will do nothing to meet the objective of this program. This is a specific program with tightly controlled execution and outcomes. And it’s working in spades! One of the few gov programs that is.

RumpDoctor: I’m guessing you are the reason they have menstrual products in men’s bathrooms now. Take a Midol.

[RugDoctor]

180, you can think that bounty would work all you want, but it won’t. This wolf cull is very specific to areas for the protection of designated herds. Nobody is going to grab their Foxpro , jump on their sled and go wipeout an entire pack of wolves in a couple of months. Thats just feel good dreaming even if the desire was there. Incidental kill of a couple hundred wolves spread over all of BC will do nothing to meet the objective of this program. This is a specific program with tightly controlled execution and outcomes. And it’s working in spades! One of the few gov programs that is.

RumpDoctor: I’m guessing you are the reason they have menstrual products in men’s bathrooms now. Take a Midol.
Sure Clambush…..sure. Maybe wipe that milk off your chin and get back to me.

[Ambush]

Sure Clambush…..sure. Maybe wipe that milk off your chin and get back to me.


ooh, ouch, ouch. the little pomeranian bites back!

[RugDoctor]

ooh, ouch, ouch. the little pomeranian bites back!
Better a Pomeranian that bites back that a pussy who can’t articulate a position and has to resort to trying to bully people into silence. Don’t start shit out of your league Clam….you’re punching up and you’re failing.

[RugDoctor]

And I feel you’ve had enough….feel free to say something stupid….I’ll be the better person…..pretty easy in this case.

[Ambush]

Don’t start shit out of your league Clam….you’re punching up and you’re failing.

My, my, don’t you have a high opinion of yourself.

Maybe you should go back and read your first (unsolicited) response to my first post and then again to your response to my (solicited) response. And then try to see if those (your) responses weren’t an attempt to bully and silence. If you’re going g to be a hypocrite, at try and be clever about it.

[RugDoctor]

And you just like to blindly bitch.

The three caribou herds in the north that I pay attention to have gone from a ten percent yearly decline to now a fifteen percent year over year increase for the past six years. On only the strength of wolf culls! Maybe we should just piss, moan and hand wring about the government until they are all gone, then whine that the government did nothing. After years of chicken shit studies they finally have the balls to do something and all
you can do is bitch. They finally ignore the urban antis and do what is right and you aren’t happy with that either.

Go get an actual quote together to do the job cheaper and get back to us!

Oh , and while I’m insulting your intelligence anyway, if your gullible enough to think Islandwanderer is serious, you really shouldn’t be accusing other people of being dumb sheep.
Here you go hypocrite.

[Ambush]

Here you go hypocrite.

… yes, and……..

[RugDoctor]

… yes, and……..
Man your stupid….this was the first insult….it came from you…..you started the whole thing by trying to bully. You are the dick in this scenario…..I simply returned the favour and pointed it out.

Don’t worry champ….one day you’ll get there.

[RugDoctor]

Sorry….I said I’d be the better person here. Hope you have a Happy new year.

[Ambush]

Awesome. You’d rather waste money here than other places. That makes it okay. Oh, and the government always costs more and is less efficient….so that makes it okay.

You’re too easily conditioned my friend..


Well actually you started it with this post to me even though I had not ever mentioned your name at all. But you took it upon yourself to chastise me for being an easily lead, blind, non discerning follower, or sheep in shorter terms.

[Ambush]

Sorry….I said I’d be the better person here. Hope you have a Happy new year.

Haha! You post that bunch of bullshit in your previous post, leave it there and then in this one you say that! Thats about hypocritical as you can get. Not at all what I’d expect from “the better person”.

[RugDoctor]

Haha! You post that bunch of bullshit in your previous post, leave it there and then in this one you say that! Thats about hypocritical as you can get. Not at all what I’d expect from “the better person”.
I forgive you Ambush.

[180grainer]

180, you can think that bounty would work all you want, but it won’t. This wolf cull is very specific to areas for the protection of designated herds. Nobody is going to grab their Foxpro , jump on their sled and go wipeout an entire pack of wolves in a couple of months. Thats just feel good dreaming even if the desire was there. Incidental kill of a couple hundred wolves spread over all of BC will do nothing to meet the objective of this program. This is a specific program with tightly controlled execution and outcomes. And it’s working in spades! One of the few gov programs that is.

RumpDoctor: I’m guessing you are the reason they have menstrual products in men’s bathrooms now. Take a Midol.
I think you minimize the incentive behind a $2000.00 wolf kill bounty. Keep your chopper cropper, as expensive as it is, but allow resident hunters to compete "at half the price". You're a moron if you're not getting that. You beak off that no ones going to do it. Why are you feeling empowered to say that? You're the proverbial nay sayer that's pissing into the wind. Again, I applaud the idea of controlling the predator species by the Government. But let hunters, trappers, guide outfitters participate. They will save us money in the long run. Or so says I.

[HarryToolips]

Awesome. You’d rather waste money here than other places. That makes it okay. Oh, and the government always costs more and is less efficient….so that makes it okay. You’re too easily conditioned my friend.Most of your posts I agree but in this instance I agree with ambush, wolves are hard to kill, especially if you are talking about eliminating entire packs at a time..

[RugDoctor]

Most of your posts I agree but in this instance I agree with ambush, wolves are hard to kill, especially if you are talking about eliminating entire packs at a time..
I agree it would be difficult to achieve the results, but don’t agree there isn’t a cheaper way. Government is constantly fighting for relevance and has an endless pail of money. It’s been said a few times that private industry is more efficient and budgetary out of necessity….it’s true.

When you can’t go broke because you have endless income, and can increase that income with the stroke of a pen, there’s little incentive to act fiscally. I may not know the answer, as I know Ambush doesn’t either….but what I do know is that as we’ve all acknowledged, government over spent on this. That’s all I’m saying.

Absolutely could be wrong, but I tend to agree in some respects with what 180 says…..it could have at least partially been done using hunters and trappers. At 2k per wolf…..you’d have some takers let alone offering helo drops and relief from regulations to kill wolves.

[HarryToolips]

I think you minimize the incentive behind a $2000.00 wolf kill bounty. Keep your chopper cropper, as expensive as it is, but allow resident hunters to compete "at half the price". You're a moron if you're not getting that. You beak off that no ones going to do it. Why are you feeling empowered to say that? You're the proverbial nay sayer that's pissing into the wind. Again, I applaud the idea of controlling the predator species by the Government. But let hunters, trappers, guide outfitters participate. They will save us money in the long run. Or so says I.I agree also with you that if they were to set aside a little funding towards incentives for resident hunters and trappers it may be an effective tactic as well...at least worth a try..

[HarryToolips]

[QUOTE=RugDoctor;2430124]I agree it would be difficult to achieve the results, but don’t agree there isn’t a cheaper way. Government is constantly fighting for relevance and has an endless pail of money. It’s been said a few times that private industry is more efficient and budgetary out of necessity….it’s true. When you can’t go broke because you have endless income, and can increase that income with the stroke of a pen, there’s little incentive to act fiscally. I may not know the answer, as I know Ambush doesn’t either….but what I do know is that as we’ve all acknowledged, government over spent on this. That’s Most likely you're correct that there's outfits out there that could complete the tasks more efficiently budget wise, but at least they've acted and done the right thing for once, and ignored the peer pressure from the ignorant anti hunting groups... but also consider the cost of the administrative aspect of the job: the data collection and analysis, reports, including the arduous task of compiling evidence that they're eliminating their targets efficiently and ethically!

[RugDoctor]

I agree also with you that if they were to set aside a little funding towards incentives for resident hunters and trappers it may be an effective tactic as well...at least worth a try..
Exactly…..not everyone is gonna do this for free or for the experience, but with incentive behind it there would be some takers. I think contractors take advantage of government options, but again, if the government acted in the best interest as they’re supposed to, they would award to the lowest competent bid and the responsibility would then lie with them to fulfill the agreed outcome. Maybe split the load between incentivized opportunities to resident hunters and a contract? Who knows…..but to blindly sy it’s all good because we want the result is as irresponsible as spending 10 million on less than 2k wolves.

[HarryToolips]

Sorry it's probably a pain to see where my last post started there RugDoctor, this site still gives me issues posting from my Android...

[RugDoctor]

[QUOTE=RugDoctor;2430124]I agree it would be difficult to achieve the results, but don’t agree there isn’t a cheaper way. Government is constantly fighting for relevance and has an endless pail of money. It’s been said a few times that private industry is more efficient and budgetary out of necessity….it’s true. When you can’t go broke because you have endless income, and can increase that income with the stroke of a pen, there’s little incentive to act fiscally. I may not know the answer, as I know Ambush doesn’t either….but what I do know is that as we’ve all acknowledged, government over spent on this. That’s Most likely you're correct that there's outfits out there that could complete the tasks more efficiently budget wise, but at least they've acted and done the right thing for once, and ignored the peer pressure from the ignorant anti hunting groups... but also consider the cost of the administrative aspect of the job: the data collection and analysis, reports, including the arduous task of compiling evidence that they're eliminating their targets efficiently and ethically!
And this is bureaucracy at its finest. This is where the government wastes exponentially.

[RugDoctor]

Sorry it's probably a pain to see where my last post started there RugDoctor, this site still gives me issues posting from my Android...
Gotcha….things get out of synch sometimes but I think it’s making sense. I just appreciate a level head.

[HarryToolips]

Exactly…..not everyone is gonna do this for free or for the experience, but with incentive behind it there would be some takers. I think contractors take advantage of government options, but again, if the government acted in the best interest as they’re supposed to, they would award to the lowest competent bid and the responsibility would then lie with them to fulfill the agreed outcome. Maybe split the load between incentivized opportunities to resident hunters and a contract? Who knows…..but to blindly sy it’s all good because we want the result is as irresponsible as spending 10 million on less than 2k wolves.I hear ya, that would be a good approach..

[HarryToolips]

[QUOTE=HarryToolips;2430127]And this is bureaucracy at its finest. This is where the government wastes exponentially.I hear ya.....I have to deal with it on the regular with my job...

[Ambush]

But let hunters, trappers, guide outfitters participate. They will save us money in the long run. Or so says I.

180, how long have you been hunting in BC and how many wolves have you killed? How long have hunters been complaining about too many wolves eating too many ungulates. Why haven’t hunters taken a big chunk out of those wolves. What better incentive do you need to “get out there and get them!” Have you ever killed a limit of wolves? Know any hunters that have?

And one more time, this ten million dollars wasn’t for just wolves in general

And for everyone that just knows it was too expensive, how much should it have cost? How many man days, how much chopper and plane time was used. Every kill had to be confirmed and documented on the ground. This is not the same as an old time outfitter gunning from his Cessna and who gives shit if one or two only got a leg shot off . There is a huge opposition to this cull from very well funded antis and every effort has to be made to keep the public on side. So, yeah, they have to go way overboard on protocol.

But you should definitely lobby for a bounty on wolves and when it’s up and running and you’ve proven you can do the job better, I’m sure the government will gladly hand it to you.

In the meantime, I’m happy to see science and wildlife win for once.

[180grainer]

180, how long have you been hunting in BC and how many wolves have you killed? How long have hunters been complaining about too many wolves eating too many ungulates. Why haven’t hunters taken a big chunk out of those wolves. What better incentive do you need to “get out there and get them!” Have you ever killed a limit of wolves? Know any hunters that have?

And one more time, this ten million dollars wasn’t for just wolves in general

And for everyone that just knows it was too expensive, how much should it have cost? How many man days, how much chopper and plane time was used. Every kill had to be confirmed and documented on the ground. This is not the same as an old time outfitter gunning from his Cessna and who gives shit if one or two only got a leg shot off . There is a huge opposition to this cull from very well funded antis and every effort has to be made to keep the public on side. So, yeah, they have to go way overboard on protocol.

But you should definitely lobby for a bounty on wolves and when it’s up and running and you’ve proven you can do the job better, I’m sure the government will gladly hand it to you.

In the meantime, I’m happy to see science and wildlife win for once.
You have a vested interest in this beyond being a concerned hunter. That's my feeling with this response because it's so hyper focuse on what was done was right. No better way to do things at all. Do I have you there BigBush?

[Ambush]

Do I have you there BigBush?

No, you don’t. You’re just guessing and hoping to sound discerning.

How about tell me something you know for sure , like how many wolves have you’ve killed in how many years hunting?

[Spy]

No, you don’t. You’re just guessing and hoping to sound discerning.

How about tell me something you know for sure , like how many wolves have you’ve killed in how many years hunting?
It does not matter how many wolves 180 or anyone else have killed,what matters is the Gov over paid and I for one can tell you I would be a wolf assassin if I was paid 2Gs per wolf

[Ambush]

It does not matter how many wolves 180 or anyone else have killed,what matters is the Gov over paid and I for one can tell you I would be a wolf assassin if I was paid 2Gs per wolf

How many have you killed for the good of ungulates. If you can say twenty or more, then I can give your comment more credit. But as it is, we have people that have never killed a wolf claiming that they could kill a few thousand of them in short order. Nobody has said how they would do it, other than “well I’ll just round up
some good ole boys and some beer, and we’ll getter dun”


And what some of you don’t understand is I want to keep huntable populations of caribou, over priced or not. I consider it cheap compared to the many millions spent on social engineering and absolute garbage.

[180grainer]

No, you don’t. You’re just guessing and hoping to sound discerning.

How about tell me something you know for sure , like how many wolves have you’ve killed in how many years hunting?
I've killed one and had a chance at two others. But have never "hunted" them.

[browningboy]

180, how long have you been hunting in BC and how many wolves have you killed? How long have hunters been complaining about too many wolves eating too many ungulates. Why haven’t hunters taken a big chunk out of those wolves. What better incentive do you need to “get out there and get them!” Have you ever killed a limit of wolves? Know any hunters that have?

And one more time, this ten million dollars wasn’t for just wolves in general

And for everyone that just knows it was too expensive, how much should it have cost? How many man days, how much chopper and plane time was used. Every kill had to be confirmed and documented on the ground. This is not the same as an old time outfitter gunning from his Cessna and who gives shit if one or two only got a leg shot off . There is a huge opposition to this cull from very well funded antis and every effort has to be made to keep the public on side. So, yeah, they have to go way overboard on protocol.

But you should definitely lobby for a bounty on wolves and when it’s up and running and you’ve proven you can do the job better, I’m sure the government will gladly hand it to you.

In the meantime, I’m happy to see science and wildlife win for once.

if the government had a 5k bounty per wolf, that’s tons of incentive for 10’s of thousands of hunters to head out, otherwise who would go out solely for wolf?

[Ambush]

if the government had a 5k bounty per wolf, that’s tons of incentive for 10’s of thousands of hunters to head out, otherwise who would go out solely for wolf?

You do know that $5k X 2k wolves is ten million dollars, right. Which is what they spent on an efficient and specifically targeted kill program. Where as your program would kill some wolves, over the entire province and most of those not in the target areas and would likely never reach the 2k goal. Your plan sounds more like a typical government plan. Not to mention, no government is going to offer a bounty on wolves. But, hey join up with 180 and get it going.

So far it sounds like the guys bitching don’t have multiple wolf kills under their belts, don’t really hunt wolves, don’t have choppers and planes and have never owned a business that carries out operations like this cull. But some how they “just know” they could do it better, faster and way cheaper.

IMO most haven’t even given it any serious thought or done any real research into it at all. Where the culls are taking place, numbers and results. Just an anti government bitch fest. This government has more than enough reasons to be mad at it for and few politicians should be publicly flogged. But this is one bright spot where we as hunters and outdoors people win against peta and Pacific Wild and a multitude foreign medlars.

And at the risk of triggering your Islandwanderer shreiks, you probably should send them a thank you note.

[Bernie O]

This thread is looking like Pierre and the turd in parliament with 180 spouting rhetoric without having an answer or better solution.

[Ambush]

I’m thinking I could put a team together, be there in a day or two, kill 2000 wolves, and not take 8 years to do it or cost 10 million dollars.

I think you should initiate your plan to shut up the naysayers. Pick a valley that has a wolf pack predating caribou, document the evidence and DNA for all the pack members, kill every one and document that evidence.

I will personally come on HBC every morning and bow at your feet, if you can do it.

[180grainer]

This thread is looking like Pierre and the turd in parliament with 180 spouting rhetoric without having an answer or better solution.
So I take it you can't get behind a resident hunter bounty which would see $2000.00 per wolf as an adjunct to the highly expensive cull which lined the pockets of a couple of American shooters and a chopper pilot?

I remember that website which was dedicated to predator hunting. I think it was called Predator Hunt Canada. There was always a derby of sorts through the winter as to who could shoot the most predators. Lots of guys were into that and there were a number who were dedicated and very successful. Top prize was like a knife or something from a sponsor. But BigBush says no one but the Government knows what they're doing and no ones going to go on a wolf hunt for 2K a wolf. Keep your American shooters and your chopper. All I'm saying is, let resident hunters give it a go as well.

[HarryToolips]

if the government had a 5k bounty per wolf, that’s tons of incentive for 10’s of thousands of hunters to head out, otherwise who would go out solely for wolf?
I'm starting to go out solely for wolf..but I want to pattern them as much as possible first..wolves are very hard to kill by hunting, they are 99% nocturnal from my experience..and they, like elk for example, will become educated quick..that's why I agree with Ambush that from a hunting standpoint, it's much easier said than done to get the kind of results that the govt just achieved...

[RugDoctor]

I think you should initiate your plan to shut up the naysayers. Pick a valley that has a wolf pack predating caribou, document the evidence and DNA for all the pack members, kill every one and document that evidence.

I will personally come on HBC every morning and bow at your feet, if you can do it.
I forgive you Ambush…..it’s okay. You’re okay.

[IronNoggin]

... But let hunters, trappers, guide outfitters participate. They will save us money in the long run. Or so says I.

Doesn't hold a lot of water based on your own admitted experience (or lack thereof in this case).


Exactly…..not everyone is gonna do this for free or for the experience, but with incentive behind it there would be some takers.

Insufficient numbers with insufficient experience operating over a wide range and not being target specific as to the areas where the removals are most needed is the most likely outcome of what you are suggesting.


... But as it is, we have people that have never killed a wolf claiming that they could kill a few thousand of them in short order. Nobody has said how they would do it, other than “well I’ll just round up
some good ole boys and some beer, and we’ll getter dun”

Yep.

Unlike most here, I personally hunted wolves a LOT in the Arctic.
I can tell you first hand they are extremely intelligent, catch on incredibly fast when being hunted, and are masters at avoiding us Two-Legs.

Hunters take minimal numbers due to just that being combined with a lack of knowledge / experience in targeting on them. Could "hunters" take a few? Of course, But not in sufficient numbers, and not in specific target zones in my opinion.

Experienced knowledgeable Trappers can and do make a difference - when they dedicate on the species. FAR much more so than hunters. Vastly that is. And incentive programs as noted in the target areas might induce some to work those areas. Main question: Would there be sufficient interest to ensure target goal removals?
Perhaps - Perhaps Not.

I tend to believe too much coin was tossed at this.
Conversely I also understand the resulting response from the caribou populations this was designed to aid.
For me, the outcome plays a more significant role at this juncture.

Tossing even more taxpayers money at bounty programs which in most likelihood will not achieve the desired results appears to me to be tossing good money after bad, without increasing the potential of the desired outcome in any significant manner.

Cheers,
Nog

[180grainer]

Doesn't hold a lot of water based on your own admitted experience (or lack thereof in this case).



Insufficient numbers with insufficient experience operating over a wide range and not being target specific as to the areas where the removals are most needed is the most likely outcome of what you are suggesting.



Yep.

Unlike most here, I personally hunted wolves a LOT in the Arctic.
I can tell you first hand they are extremely intelligent, catch on incredibly fast when being hunted, and are masters at avoiding us Two-Legs.

Hunters take minimal numbers due to just that being combined with a lack of knowledge / experience in targeting on them. Could "hunters" take a few? Of course, But not in sufficient numbers, and not in specific target zones in my opinion.

Experienced knowledgeable Trappers can and do make a difference - when they dedicate on the species. FAR much more so than hunters. Vastly that is. And incentive programs as noted in the target areas might induce some to work those areas. Main question: Would there be sufficient interest to ensure target goal removals?
Perhaps - Perhaps Not.

I tend to believe too much coin was tossed at this.
Conversely I also understand the resulting response from the caribou populations this was designed to aid.
For me, the outcome plays a more significant role at this juncture.

Tossing even more taxpayers money at bounty programs which in most likelihood will not achieve the desired results appears to me to be tossing good money after bad, without increasing the potential of the desired outcome in any significant manner.

Cheers,
Nog
Can't believe so many so called hunters on here don't see the benefit of a resident bounty on wolves. They'd prefer that the Government let predator management get so out of control that they'd eventually have to hire people to kill large numbers of them from a helicopter. That's exaxtly what's happened here. If you had a long standing program of resident hunter/trapper predator management, the spending of this money they now defend would have probably not been needed. And the money spent would be put into the pockets of British Columbians. And so it will continue.

And shame on you who are essentially calling resident hunter and trappers a bunch of ****tards that don't know what they're doing in the bush.

[IronNoggin]

... And shame on you who are essentially calling resident hunter and trappers a bunch of ****tards that don't know what they're doing in the bush.

Not at all what I said.
But ever so typical of you putting words in other's mouth.
Gets lame when it is so repetitive.

Might want to go back and read what I did post.
But then again, given your blind adherence to any opinion but your own and those who blindly side with you, perhaps not.

What I did note was that wolves are damned difficult to hunt. Extremely so.
The average Resident Hunter simply does not have the required training, experience & understanding to offer much in the way of real results. Can that be changed over time? You Bet! Does however require dedicated effort. And regardless, that particular skill set largely does not exist in that sector at this point.

Experienced Trappers pack a LOT of punch for their weight.
They can and do make a difference when they focus on the task of wolf reduction.
Perhaps the incentive of a bounty might induce enough to make a difference.
Perhaps.

And you translate that to: "you who are essentially calling resident hunter and trappers a bunch of ****tards that don't know what they're doing in the bush"?

So far removed from reality as to be beyond ludicrous.
Downright DELUSIONAL I'd suggest.

Cheers

[Ambush]

Can't believe so many so called hunters on here don't see the benefit of a resident bounty on wolves. They'd prefer that the Government let predator management get so out of control that they'd eventually have to hire people to kill large numbers of them from a helicopter. That's exaxtly what's happened here. If you had a long standing program of resident hunter/trapper predator management, the spending of this money they now defend would have probably not been needed. And the money spent would be put into the pockets of British Columbians. And so it will continue.
.

I believe “beaking off” is the term you use when talking about other’s dissenting opinions, so out of respect, I’ll do the same.

You keep beaking off about the price tag being too high, yet you have no numbers or math to back that up. I’ve asked a few times for those with your opinion to present their numbers. No one has. And that is because you have no numbers. No research, no facts. You flat out don’t know the reasons for the costs.

How much do you know about the Kootanie or Chicotin caribou studies and mitigation? And more recently the northern herds? I’ll give you a chance to go read the headlines of a few studies do you can come back and pretend you have in depth knowledge.

When the government was killing moose to save caribou and thousands of hunters were outraged, how many were incentivized to kill wolves? How many did they kill? Why did the government go that route. What’s the difference this time around? Come to me with real answer and not just some nebulas bullshit.

You ( and a few others) like to admonish others to “do the research and think for your selves” and “get the facts”. Well, your lack of insight and knowledge clearly shows you don’t follow your own advice.

So lay out your business plan, right here, to accomplish the end goal and get it done for half the price. Let’s deal with facts. But you can’t and won’t. The only “plan” you have is to be convinced that if the government did it, it is rotten, dangerous and deceptive to the core. Deep down you have a feeling that Bonnie Henry must be behind it.

Oh, and there was a “bounty” on BC wolves not that long ago. Can’t remember anyone on HBC collecting on it.

I do know and know of some very successful wolf killers. 98% traps. And it takes months of hauling many thousands of pounds of bait to accessible areas to do it. Are you up for that? Got that plane in the air to find that pack?

Couch quarterbacks can always tell you how the game could have been won. But just pull the blanket over your head on this one.

[180grainer]

I believe “beaking off” is the term you use when talking about other’s dissenting opinions, so out of respect, I’ll do the same.

You keep beaking off about the price tag being too high, yet you have no numbers or math to back that up. I’ve asked a few times for those with your opinion to present their numbers. No one has. And that is because you have no numbers. No research, no facts. You flat out don’t know the reasons for the costs.

How much do you know about the Kootanie or Chicotin caribou studies and mitigation? And more recently the northern herds? I’ll give you a chance to go read the headlines of a few studies do you can come back and pretend you have in depth knowledge.

When the government was killing moose to save caribou and thousands of hunters were outraged, how many were incentivized to kill wolves? How many did they kill? Why did the government go that route. What’s the difference this time around? Come to me with real answer and not just some nebulas bullshit.

You ( and a few others) like to admonish others to “do the research and think for your selves” and “get the facts”. Well, your lack of insight and knowledge clearly shows you don’t follow your own advice.

So lay out your business plan, right here, to accomplish the end goal and get it done for half the price. Let’s deal with facts. But you can’t and won’t. The only “plan” you have is to be convinced that if the government did it, it is rotten, dangerous and deceptive to the core. Deep down you have a feeling that Bonnie Henry must be behind it.

Oh, and there was a “bounty” on BC wolves not that long ago. Can’t remember anyone on HBC collecting on it.

I do know and know of some very successful wolf killers. 98% traps. And it takes months of hauling many thousands of pounds of bait to accessible areas to do it. Are you up for that? Got that plane in the air to find that pack?

Couch quarterbacks can always tell you how the game could have been won. But just pull the blanket over your head on this one.
Why don't you educate us on the Kootenay and Chilcotin studies? Why don't you educate us on what's been happening with the northern herds? Why don't you show us when the last bounty was offerred in BC? Why don't you get it that offerring a bounty in conjunction with any other Government initiative could only be a positive and may reduce the need to hire foriegn hunters and aircraft to do it all? It's clear that offerring a $2000.00 bounty is less than half the price all of us have now paid. What does the government have to lose in offerring the bounty? It's not like they can't go and bring those paid hunters back if their needed.

[Ambush]

Why don't you educate us on the Kootenay and Chilcotin studies? Why don't you educate us on what's been happening with the northern herds? Why don't you show us when the last bounty was offerred in BC? Why don't you get it that offerring a bounty in conjunction with any other Government initiative could only be a positive and may reduce the need to hire foriegn hunters and aircraft to do it all? It's clear that offerring a $2000.00 bounty is less than half the price all of us have now paid. What does the government have to lose in offerring the bounty? It's not like they can't go and bring those paid hunters back if their needed.

Hmm, I think this falls under your infamous “do your own research” category. Besides, if I did do all that for you, you’d simply dismiss as from one who didn’t do any real research. Well, just sheep research at best.

Show me your numbers.

[180grainer]

Hmm, I think this falls under your infamous “do your own research” category. Besides, if I did do all that for you, you’d simply dismiss as from one who didn’t do any real research. Well, just sheep research at best.

Show me your numbers.
That's what I thought. A lot of huffing and puffing, I know best, you're a crank, no one does it better than Government. You want numbers for something that hasn't happened? I'll get right on that. Hey, all I'm saying is, given the amount of money spent, resident hunters should be able to partake. If that's too much for you take, find a good counsellor.

[180grainer]

Not at all what I said.
But ever so typical of you putting words in other's mouth.
Gets lame when it is so repetitive.

Might want to go back and read what I did post.
But then again, given your blind adherence to any opinion but your own and those who blindly side with you, perhaps not.

What I did note was that wolves are damned difficult to hunt. Extremely so.
The average Resident Hunter simply does not have the required training, experience & understanding to offer much in the way of real results. Can that be changed over time? You Bet! Does however require dedicated effort. And regardless, that particular skill set largely does not exist in that sector at this point.

Experienced Trappers pack a LOT of punch for their weight.
They can and do make a difference when they focus on the task of wolf reduction.
Perhaps the incentive of a bounty might induce enough to make a difference.
Perhaps.

And you translate that to: "you who are essentially calling resident hunter and trappers a bunch of ****tards that don't know what they're doing in the bush"?

So far removed from reality as to be beyond ludicrous.
Downright DELUSIONAL I'd suggest.

Cheers
Yea, I owe you an apology for that. Sorry. I hardly ever read anything you post. At least in its entirety.

[Ambush]

That's what I thought. A lot of huffing and puffing, I know best, you're a crank, no one does it better than Government. You want numbers for something that hasn't happened? I'll get right on that. Hey, all I'm saying is, given the amount of money spent, resident hunters should be able to partake. If that's too much for you take, find a good counsellor.


Ok, so you got nothing but bluster and posted exactly what I said you’ d post. Nothing.

To you there are only two kinds of people. Those that agree with you, and anyone else is either delusional, stupid, misinformed, uninformed or dangerously deceptive. It’s an extreme form of arrogance.

[RugDoctor]

Ok, so you got nothing but bluster and posted exactly what I said you’ d post. Nothing.

To you there are only two kinds of people. Those that agree with you, and anyone else is either delusional, stupid, misinformed, uninformed or dangerously deceptive. It’s an extreme form of arrogance.
Hey pot…..meet kettle.

[Ambush]

Hey pot…..meet kettle.

Hey Pugdoctor better stay in “your league”.

The truth is a few of you came out strong and made two very plain statements. #1, it cost too much for the end result. #2 you could get the same results much much cheaper.

Your little cadre made the claims and it’s incumbent on you to prove them. I don’t have to prove your statements wrong, you have to prove your statements are correct. Thats the way that goes in real situations.

Either you can back it up with hard facts and numbers or it’s just bitching bullshit.

[RugDoctor]

That government wolf cull cost more than it needed to.

[IronNoggin]

... It's clear that offerring a $2000.00 bounty is less than half the price all of us have now paid.

ONLY if the same results occur.
The reasons why that is highly doubtful have been repeatedly posted, but in your blindness...


Yea, I owe you an apology for that. Sorry. I hardly ever read anything you post. At least in its entirety.

You hardly ready anything you don't post yourself, unless it is from a backing FanBoi.
Might want to reconsider that if you actually want to be enlightened...
If your arrogance will allow you to do so that is... :roll:


Hmm, I think this falls under your infamous “do your own research” category.

It most certainly does.
But don't hold your breath waiting for it to come up with anything beyond conjecture, bluster and "because I said so".


To you there are only two kinds of people. Those that agree with you, and anyone else is either delusional, stupid, misinformed, uninformed or dangerously deceptive. It’s an extreme form of arrogance.

NAILED IT! https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Cheers

[RugDoctor]

That government wolf cull could’ve been done cheaper with the same results.

[Ambush]

That government wolf cull cost more than it needed to.

Prove it or admit you are just bitching like a twelve year girl.

[RugDoctor]

That wolf cull was certainly more expensive than it needed to be. Most everything done by the government is over priced. Anyone who doesn’t know that is dumb.

[180grainer]

ONLY if the same results occur.
Cheers
No, it doesn't have to be. One thing the cull did was establish what a fair price would be for a bounty. Again, at $2000. the tax payer would be paying less than half in what was paid out in the cull. Which I estimate is just over $5000 a wolf. It doesn't mean you can't have your helicopter cull if its needed. I'm saying it most likely won't if we actually had an organized predator control program designed to operate from the bottom up not the top down.

Secondly, the people conducting the cull were paid, at least in part, in advance. Thus receiving payment for results only agreed upon and not obtained. A resident hunter wouldn't be paid unless they could demonstrate results, a dead wolf. Again, not sure what the problem is here. The cull was needed and probably needed to be done in the manner it was. But only because the problem was allowed to get that bad.

[hawk-i]

How many wolves would a trapper trap, if a trapper could get 10 thou per wolf? :)

[Ambush]

That wolf cull was certainly more expensive than it needed to be. Most everything done by the government is over priced. Anyone who doesn’t know that is dumb.

Then it should be easy to prove then. So quit blowing air out of your ass and give us your hard numbers for the project . Show us you’re the smart one.

[Ambush]

How many wolves would a trapper trap, if a trapper could get 10 thou per wolf? :)

Which would be $20 million or double what the government paid.

[RugDoctor]

Yup, the government sure did spend a lot more than they had to on that wolf cull. You’d have to be a special kind of stupid not to see that.

[IronNoggin]

No, it doesn't have to be.

Yes it has to be results driven.
Your suggestion falls short.
Period.


Secondly, the people conducting the cull were paid, at least in part, in advance.


No they were not. There was a minor up front payment for logistics matter.
Not at all where you are heading with this one.
Reality Check (understanding that may be a little tough for you...)


The cull was needed and probably needed to be done in the manner it was. But only because the problem was allowed to get that bad.

To some extent that is correct, I will give you that.
Not for the reasons you lean towards, but rather the caribou and ther habitat management was seriosuly lacking.
Resulting in populations in serious trouble and susceptible to actual elimination by predators - largely wolves.

And every damn government in this province was and is responsible.
At least the problem was eventually recognized (damn near too late) and steps are being taken to address that.

Your fantasy of Resident Hunters doing the same is simply that: Fantasy.

Happy New Beers!

Out until next year...

Cheers

[Ambush]

Yup, the government sure did spend a lot more than they had to on that wolf cull. You’d have to be a special kind of stupid not to see that.

Hahaha! Trying to wiggle out and seem clever too. Funny little Pug you are.

Why not just admit, you know shit about the cull and costs and you simply want to bitch mindlessly about the government. It’s ok, just be you, ending and starting the old and new years as yourself.

[RugDoctor]

Hahaha! Trying to wiggle out and seem clever too. Funny little Pug you are.

Why not just admit, you know shit about the cull and costs and you simply want to bitch mindlessly about the government. It’s ok, just be you, ending and starting the old and new years as yourself.
I know I can see the obvious.

[RugDoctor]

Hahaha! Trying to wiggle out and seem clever too. Funny little Pug you are.

Why not just admit, you know shit about the cull and costs and you simply want to bitch mindlessly about the government. It’s ok, just be you, ending and starting the old and new years as yourself.
You’re too easy man….too easy. Thick, temper tantrum babies like you are always easy.

[RugDoctor]

And the fixation with lap dogs too…..your real name isn’t Clambush at all is it?! You’re Karen!

[j270wsm]

Who are you to doubt that? And that number was based on what you and I paid 10 million dollars for. Are you kidding me??? If I could put in an LEH for my area which would allow me to harvest as many wolves as possilbe at $2000.00 a wolf, you don't think I'd be all over that? And I know people who would be far more into it than me.

how many wolves do you kill every yr? How many chances could you have a killing wolves every yr? I don’t know many guys who see wolves let alone get a chance at them. If you’re constantly seeing them and having chances then that’s great, I hope your killing everyone you’re allowed to kill.

[Ambush]

You’re too easy man….too easy. Thick, temper tantrum babies like you are always easy.

You’re just like a pigeon on a checkerboard. Strutting around, chest puffed up, making noise and shitting all over . Not a clue what the game is or what’s going on but convinced you’re winning. Just a little treasure.

[RugDoctor]

You’re just like a pigeon on a checkerboard. Strutting around, chest puffed up, making noise and shitting all over . Not a clue what the game is or what’s going on but convinced you’re winning. Just a little treasure.
Ooooh you got me good there! You win Clambush….er….I mean Karen…..you win.

Except of course, the part where the government wolf cull was more expensive than it had to be.

[180grainer]

Yes it has to be results driven.
Your suggestion falls short.
Period.




No they were not. There was a minor up front payment for logistics matter.
Not at all where you are heading with this one.
Reality Check (understanding that may be a little tough for you...)



To some extent that is correct, I will give you that.
Not for the reasons you lean towards, but rather the caribou and ther habitat management was seriosuly lacking.
Resulting in populations in serious trouble and susceptible to actual elimination by predators - largely wolves.

And every damn government in this province was and is responsible.
At least the problem was eventually recognized (damn near too late) and steps are being taken to address that.

Your fantasy of Resident Hunters doing the same is simply that: Fantasy.

Happy New Beers!

Out until next year...

Cheers
Happy New Years to you too. Rock on.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlc6xCPx60U

[180grainer]

how many wolves do you kill every yr? How many chances could you have a killing wolves every yr? I don’t know many guys who see wolves let alone get a chance at them. If you’re constantly seeing them and having chances then that’s great, I hope your killing everyone you’re allowed to kill.
No one ever offered me, or anyone, a reasonable bounty based on 10 million dollars over 8 years.

[hawk-i]

Which would be $20 million or double what the government paid.

Oh Sorry, I got the cost mixed up with the per animal cost of the Sidney Island government sponsored Deer Cull https://globalnews.ca/news/10185169/sidney-island-deer-cull-cost/

[j270wsm]

No one ever offered me, or anyone, a reasonable bounty based on 10 million dollars over 8 years.

So you’re saying that you’ve never hunted wolves and have no idea how elusive they are, yet you think a bounty is going to result in more wolves being killed for less cost than the over priced cull….?? 95% of hunters who try to hunt wolves give up very quickly due to the amount of time and afford is required. The goal of the cull was to eliminate entire packs of wolves which is easy when in a helicopter not so easy when on the ground. In most scenarios, hunters are lucky to get 1-2 wolves out of the pack which as a whole doesn’t do enough to help the over all ungulate populations.

[j270wsm]

On a positive note….a local trapper I know just found 13 wolves in his traps yesterday. Hopefully it was the entire pack. If I remember correctly, he gets $400 per wolf from the gov and what ever he makes selling the hides and skulls.

[SSG-man]

For obvious reasons they wouldn't hand out gate keys and allow the average hunter to use a chopper or Night hunt so I'm out.

[hawk-i]

On a positive note….a local trapper I know just found 13 wolves in his traps yesterday. Hopefully it was the entire pack. If I remember correctly, he gets $400 per wolf from the gov and what ever he makes selling the hides and skulls.

That's awesome he got 13 wolves, now its just to bad he isn't getting $5000.00/wolf from the government.

That would be 65,000.00 pay day for him, my guess is the wolf problem would be solved in short order.

And I would much sooner see the money go to a trapper and stay in the local economy!

[IronNoggin]

On a positive note….a local trapper I know just found 13 wolves in his traps yesterday. Hopefully it was the entire pack. If I remember correctly, he gets $400 per wolf from the gov and what ever he makes selling the hides and skulls.

A great recommendation towards what I noted above.
Experienced Trappers can and do make a significant difference when they engage.
It is pricey, and the hides are not worth what they used to be.
But damn happy to know some are still at it.

Please pass along my Kudos to this Fine Gentleman! https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

Cheers Indeed!

[j270wsm]

I don’t understand how someone thinks that the gov putting a $5k bounty on wolves will magically solve the wolf issue. Best case scenario is we get some wolves killed but more than likely we will get a bunch of guys educating wolves to avoid free food and avoid areas close to human activity.
$65k payday would be awesome….but he might have just wiped out every wolf in his area and may not see another for a few yrs. It’s great for ungulates in his area but not for the pocket book. I would also prefer to see money staying with/going to local business/residents than being wasted by our gov.

[180grainer]

So you’re saying that you’ve never hunted wolves and have no idea how elusive they are, yet you think a bounty is going to result in more wolves being killed for less cost than the over priced cull….?? 95% of hunters who try to hunt wolves give up very quickly due to the amount of time and afford is required. The goal of the cull was to eliminate entire packs of wolves which is easy when in a helicopter not so easy when on the ground. In most scenarios, hunters are lucky to get 1-2 wolves out of the pack which as a whole doesn’t do enough to help the over all ungulate populations.
Why do people make these random unverifiable statements like this to support their argument? Most hunters don't even hunt wolves like they don't hunt bears anymore either. And no, my point is, a significant number of wolves would most likely be taken if an appropriate bounty was offered motivating people to put in the time and effort.

Why would anyone not be in favor of a substantial bounty on wolves even if you never plan to hunt them yourself???? We don't have a significant predator control program in BC so how do any of you know what the results would be after 5, 10, 20 years. Just all negative shit.

[SSG-man]

Not worth the debate.
Because it's never gonna happen anyway.
Govt control and waste is the order of the new year.
The more people accept this fact the happier the govt will be.

Lets see what they get up to this year?

[ratherbefishin]

Look at the Sidney island fallow deer cull…a complete waste of $5.9 million of taxpayers money …they killed about 78 deer, 25 of them local blacktails.everytime government gets involved, it’s a gong show

[180grainer]

Look at the Sidney island fallow deer cull…a complete waste of $5.9 million of taxpayers money …they killed about 78 deer, 25 of them local blacktails.everytime government gets involved, it’s a gong show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCedOQJ0ZEA

[browningboy]

You do know that $5k X 2k wolves is ten million dollars, right. Which is what they spent on an efficient and specifically targeted kill program. Where as your program would kill some wolves, over the entire province and most of those not in the target areas and would likely never reach the 2k goal. Your plan sounds more like a typical government plan. Not to mention, no government is going to offer a bounty on wolves. But, hey join up with 180 and get it going.

So far it sounds like the guys bitching don’t have multiple wolf kills under their belts, don’t really hunt wolves, don’t have choppers and planes and have never owned a business that carries out operations like this cull. But some how they “just know” they could do it better, faster and way cheaper.

IMO most haven’t even given it any serious thought or done any real research into it at all. Where the culls are taking place, numbers and results. Just an anti government bitch fest. This government has more than enough reasons to be mad at it for and few politicians should be publicly flogged. But this is one bright spot where we as hunters and outdoors people win against peta and Pacific Wild and a multitude foreign medlars.

And at the risk of triggering your Islandwanderer shreiks, you probably should send them a thank you note.

Dude I’m just pointing out that a decent bounty would attract hunters,plus add to the economy with all the hunters spending, but you go off like an azzhole which has no business sense, piece work is far cheaper than contracted..

[Ambush]

Dude I’m just pointing out that a decent bounty would attract hunters,plus add to the economy with all the hunters spending, but you go off like an azzhole which has no business sense, piece work is far cheaper than contracted..

”Dude” I have never said there shouldn’t be a bounty on wolves. I have said, there never will be. The discussion, which a few guys had to turn shit slinging as usual, was about taking out entire, very specific packs of wolves in designated areas. Each subsequent year had a specific mandate. A bounty offered to hunters in general is not going to accomplish that.

As a business person, when you hire a crew to do a job, do you hire people who you think are qualified, or just go with the first bunch that shows up?

And of course you have to end by calling me a clueless, whiney, nutsack licker, which somehow is supposed to add prove that you’re right. But that has become the protocol with a small group on HBC. It really invites dialog and intelligent discussions. Who wouldn’t want to join in and get called names and be told to “F’off, we don’t need your stupid opinions here!”

And a few guys like to read everybody else”s posts with a loud, angry voice so they CAN be offended, then feel justified in being a super dick in their response.

Anyway, I’m happy they “wasted” all that money, so maybe there can still be a caribou season in the future. Best waste of money I’ve seen from a government in a long time.

[j270wsm]

Why do people make these random unverifiable statements like this to support their argument? Most hunters don't even hunt wolves like they don't hunt bears anymore either. And no, my point is, a significant number of wolves would most likely be taken if an appropriate bounty was offered motivating people to put in the time and effort.

Why would anyone not be in favor of a substantial bounty on wolves even if you never plan to hunt them yourself???? We don't have a significant predator control program in BC so how do any of you know what the results would be after 5, 10, 20 years. Just all negative shit.

why don’t people hunt wolves? Maybe it’s because it takes a shit load of time and effort and 95% of hunters are too lazy to hunt something they can’t/wont eat. I have never said that a bounty won’t attract hunters or result in a few extra wolves being killed each yr. What I have said, is that it won’t have the same effect as the cull that was done. We all know that bc doesn’t have a pred reduction program and hasnt had one for 30-40-50yrs…???
The local trapper that I know killed his 100th wolf last yr or the yr before. Over the last 20yrs he killed 100 wolves and hunters have taken another 20-40 and yet we still had a wolf problem. The only thing that’s effective reduced the number of wolves in my area is the lack of elk and moose.

[IronNoggin]

And of course you have to end by calling me a clueless, whiney, nutsack licker, which somehow is supposed to add prove that you’re right. But that has become the protocol with a small group on HBC. It really invites dialog and intelligent discussions. Who wouldn’t want to join in and get called names and be told to “F’off, we don’t need your stupid opinions here!”

And a few guys like to read everybody else”s posts with a loud, angry voice so they CAN be offended, then feel justified in being a super dick in their response.

https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Pozitive.gif

[180grainer]

why don’t people hunt wolves? Maybe it’s because it takes a shit load of time and effort and 95% of hunters are too lazy to hunt something they can’t/wont eat. I have never said that a bounty won’t attract hunters or result in a few extra wolves being killed each yr. What I have said, is that it won’t have the same effect as the cull that was done. We all know that bc doesn’t have a pred reduction program and hasnt had one for 30-40-50yrs…???
The local trapper that I know killed his 100th wolf last yr or the yr before. Over the last 20yrs he killed 100 wolves and hunters have taken another 20-40 and yet we still had a wolf problem. The only thing that’s effective reduced the number of wolves in my area is the lack of elk and moose.
You just finished posting up that the trapper you know got 13 the other day. So which is it? And can you tell me how you know 20 or 40 were taken by hunters? What reporting system is that again?

[j270wsm]

[QUOTE=180grainer;2430435]You just finished posting up that the trapper you know got 13 the other day. So which is it? And can you tell me how you know 20 or 40 were taken by hunters? What reporting system is that again?[/QUOTE

I said, a local trapper( sparwood guy ) I know killed 13 wolves the other day, then today I said, the local trapper(elkford guy), has killed 100wolves….do you see the difference in my statements?? Did you ever consider that I know multiple trappers? Since that never crossed your mind, I actually know the owners of 6 different trap lines.

how can I estimate that there has been 20-40 wolves killed in one specific area over the last 20yrs….because I know of at least 15 people who have killed wolves, including the 3 my brother in law and I killed in 2013.

[180grainer]

[QUOTE=180grainer;2430435]You just finished posting up that the trapper you know got 13 the other day. So which is it? And can you tell me how you know 20 or 40 were taken by hunters? What reporting system is that again?[/QUOTE

I said, a local trapper( sparwood guy ) I know killed 13 wolves the other day, then today I said, the local trapper(elkford guy), has killed 100wolves….do you see the difference in my statements?? Did you ever consider that I know multiple trappers? Since that never crossed your mind, I actually know the owners of 6 different trap lines.

how can I estimate that there has been 20-40 wolves killed in one specific area over the last 20yrs….because I know of at least 15 people who have killed wolves, including the 3 my brother in law and I killed in 2013.
You actually say "local trapper I know" in both posts. As for your wolf count. Well, and the local trapper you know and a local trapper you know, maybe try blowing smoke up someone elses a$$

[j270wsm]

actually….i said “ A “ local trapper and “ The “ local trapper…..I realize it’s a subtle difference but it’s still different. The one trapper lives in Sparwood which is only 25min from Elkford and the gentleman works in Elkford so I refer to him as a local trapper. The LOCAL trapper lives 300yds from the house I grew up in.
If you’d like I can provide you with the names of said trappers…..and locations of their lines. There are a few others on this site that know these trappers as well.

We can continue to go back and forth but I honestly have no reason the lie about any of this! No ego to inflate or point to prove. Just pointing out that the over priced cull will be extremely beneficial to all ungulates in the areas where it took place. Yes, we could offer a bounty and a few hunter will take advantage of it but over all, killing 1-2 wolves here and there isn’t going to have a major effect on the wolf population. Eliminating the entire pack is the best solution for pred reduction and ungulate populations.

[SSG-man]

Be nice if the ministry of wildlife could act sooner on issues before they get to dire conditions.

They have hunter surveys they can reference but what do 95% of us really know eh?

[Darksith]

Yes. The final cost was too high and I’m bitching about that.

I have a shotgun for sale. You should buy it. It’s really a $2500 gun, but you can give me $5000. Oh….and don’t bitch it cost too much.

I bet you don’t complain about the price of gas at the pump either.

Typical armchair quarterback. You're on this site, so you're a hunter. You must know that wolves have been a huge problem for over a decade now...how many have you killed to "do the right thing" and help our ungulates out? You sure you aren't a anti hunter or Raincoast guy stirring the pot on a hunting site? There IS a bounty on wolves for trappers. This isn't a single spear that is being thrown, but rather a trident where several groups including the government are working together to attempt to reduce the wolf population in a way that MAKES a difference that can be measured, has been measured and has had an immediate impact. Which hunting ORGS are you apart of? If you say none, GTFOH man. Im so sick of people preaching from their keyboard yet not backing up their position by helping out, volunteering, donating $ etc etc. Its hard to have a debate with someone when I donate a ton of time and money then end up debating with some guy that only has an opinion and hasn't done anything to help.


The only way to truely measure whether or not this was both efficient and effective is to compare its cost and results with the cost and results of an alternative. They essentially paid 1.2 million dollars to kill 243 wolves. Lets compare that to a $2000.00 bounty on all wolves and an unlimited harvest for wolves at that price under LEH for areas where wolves have become a problem and need reduction. I'd love to see them do that just to see what the results would be.

In the vast majority of cases, if you want efficient and effective, Government has to get out of the way.



Bottom line. Put a bounty on them and see what happens. Again, the Government is only going to pay resident hunters for results achieved without having to pay wages, lodging and chopper expenses. They've spent 10 million dollars over 8 years. Put money aside and see what the residents do. If you're right and very few wolves are shot, the Government hasn't lost anything.
you're $2000.00 bounty is hypothetical. You have no idea how effective it would be. The thing we would lose on a social experiment with resident hunters is the ENDANGERED CARIBOU and to be completely honest time. How much bitching goes on on sites like this about the wolf population, the number of animals, its not like the good old days etc etc. you want to have your bounty but on the next thread you will bitch that the wolves ate all the prey and things have digressed. Well this has produced immediate results but all your worried about is a few residents getting a couple bucks, making maybe a couple grand after expenses...no one is getting rich here...do you know what chopper time is worth, do you know how many hours they flew, how much fuel they burned, how many other people are involved (local fixed wing pilots, fuel delivery guys, collars, studies etc etc). You oversimplify this entire process to try and justify a resident bounty that may or may not be effective and even if it is, its most likely only going to cover the costs of the resident wolf hunting group as a whole...some guys might put up a profit, others will take a loss...what are you doing though?

Heres a bit of info to chew on. The wolves have learned. I was speaking to someone very close to this in region 6. They fly around in a small plane to locate the wolf collar signal, then they bring in the chopper. The wolfs have learned that the helicopter means death so they hide when they hear it. The chopper has literally had to land when able to shoot wolves hiding under trees or in thick cover. Theres a reason why hunters, road hunters without the resources of things like collar tracking etc aren't effective at reducing wolf populations...the wolves figure it out. So even if you setup a bait station which is bascially what it would take and what trappers do, the wolves will figure you out and stop walking into your traps. Trappers set way out from the bait station in order to get the wolves before they know what hit them...its impossible for a hunter to do this, you have to sit on the bait station, you can't sit 100m out, the radius is simply way too much ground to cover.

[RugDoctor]

That wolf cull was more expensive than it needed to be.

[Darksith]

That wolf cull was more expensive than it needed to be.

big deal...go find something else that the government wasted money on that isn't hunting related to bitch about. I will take the fact that at least they are doing something positive for hunting and hunters and conservation and move on.

[RugDoctor]

Typical armchair quarterback. You're on this site, so you're a hunter. You must know that wolves have been a huge problem for over a decade now...how many have you killed to "do the right thing" and help our ungulates out? You sure you aren't a anti hunter or Raincoast guy stirring the pot on a hunting site? There IS a bounty on wolves for trappers. This isn't a single spear that is being thrown, but rather a trident where several groups including the government are working together to attempt to reduce the wolf population in a way that MAKES a difference that can be measured, has been measured and has had an immediate impact. Which hunting ORGS are you apart of? If you say none, GTFOH man. Im so sick of people preaching from their keyboard yet not backing up their position by helping out, volunteering, donating $ etc etc. Its hard to have a debate with someone when I donate a ton of time and money then end up debating with some guy that only has an opinion and hasn't done anything to help.

Donate money when the cost is already higher than it needs to be? Why throw more money at a problem that’s already being mismanaged?

[RugDoctor]

big deal...go find something else that the government wasted money on that isn't hunting related to bitch about. I will take the fact that at least they are doing something positive for hunting and hunters and conservation and move on.
So if you agree with mismanagement, I should too? Because it’s a good cause, we should over pay? That doesn’t make sense.

[Darksith]

So if you agree with mismanagement, I should too? Because it’s a good cause, we should over pay? That doesn’t make sense.

you call it mismanagement but you have no baseline, just a feeling like that was too much. Please back up your thought that it was too much with some facts. How many wolves are " overpopulated", what population should the wolves be at? How many wolves were trapped in region 3, 5, 6 or 7? Please provide some type of backing other than you think its too much. Do you have any knowledge to backup that this was a waste of funds?

Another piece of info for your to chew on. Trappers harvested around 150 wolves in region 3, 5, 6 and 7 combined in 2021/2022.

I just don't understand how you can say its a waste of money when there are positive results in ungulate numbers regarding caribou, moose and sheep in the above regions. I challenge you to provide some evidence to why you think its too much per wolf. I bet the trappers spent at least half of the value of the choppers in time, fuel, equipment...trappers also fly in bait with helicopters just fyi...

Every year the trappers are taking fewer wolves than the year before because they are reducing their numbers significantly. The same will happen with the helicopter program.

[RugDoctor]

It wasn’t a total waste of money….it was more money than it needed to be. Everyone has admitted that including you.

[RugDoctor]

big deal...go find something else that the government wasted money on that isn't hunting related to bitch about. I will take the fact that at least they are doing something positive for hunting and hunters and conservation and move on.
Before you ask me to tell you when…..

[Darksith]

It wasn’t a total waste of money….it was more money than it needed to be. Everyone has admitted that including you.

I have not said it was more than it needed to be because other than poison baiting I don't know of a mechanism that would produce the results that the helicopter has and I hope it continues. It has exceeded what trappers and residents have been able to do historically. I welcome a proven model that has demonstrated more economical results and I would support it. Please advise

[RugDoctor]

I have not said it was more than it needed to be because other than poison baiting I don't know of a mechanism that would produce the results that the helicopter has and I hope it continues. It has exceeded what trappers and residents have been able to do historically. I welcome a proven model that has demonstrated more economical results and I would support it. Please advise
Yeah….maybe you’re right. Maybe 10 million bucks is a perfectly reasonable amount. Maybe the government did it economically after all.

[Darksith]

Yeah….maybe you’re right. Maybe 10 million bucks is a perfectly reasonable amount. Maybe the government did it economically after all.

maybe the government hired the best guys for the job. Thats the real question. Did they hire the best guys to produce the quickest best most immediate results or should we have done some social experimenting with other options? Could the caribou afford the latter? Can our ungulates afford more delays or do we want to see results and we are happy to see results or would we rather they formed some committee, spent countless dollars on bureaucrats and studies to come up with a framework that still doesn't produce any actual wolf removal and then it get stalled in more politics or a program that was an experiment that produced poor results and we end up hiring the best available option in 5 years from today rather than 5 years ago?

You want a resident bounty? Sure, lets get to a point where we can say this is the baseline, there are X number of wolves, and then see if the residents can manage and maintain a population, but that too will cost a bunch of money, probably over $1M a year to monitor just to ensure that the population doesnt rebound unnoticed and we end up right back where we started. But it can't be an LEH thing, look how many LEH hunts go unhunted. The same thing would happen here where guys think they are hot shit and get drawn to be one of the guys but really they aren't and they don't produce results.

[RugDoctor]

maybe the government hired the best guys for the job. Thats the real question. Did they hire the best guys to produce the quickest best most immediate results or should we have done some social experimenting with other options? Could the caribou afford the latter? Can our ungulates afford more delays or do we want to see results and we are happy to see results or would we rather they formed some committee, spent countless dollars on bureaucrats and studies to come up with a framework that still doesn't produce any actual wolf removal and then it get stalled in more politics or a program that was an experiment that produced poor results and we end up hiring the best available option in 5 years from today rather than 5 years ago?

You want a resident bounty? Sure, lets get to a point where we can say this is the baseline, there are X number of wolves, and then see if the residents can manage and maintain a population, but that too will cost a bunch of money, probably over $1M a year to monitor just to ensure that the population doesnt rebound unnoticed and we end up right back where we started. But it can't be an LEH thing, look how many LEH hunts go unhunted. The same thing would happen here where guys think they are hot shit and get drawn to be one of the guys but really they aren't and they don't produce results.
Yeah….you’re probably right. Just seems like governments don’t really have a track record of responsibility with our funds. Maybe I just felt like this was just like every other thing they’ve ever done and my comments should’ve been more obviously rhetoric. I’m not used to the government being so good with money so it surprises me that they were so responsible this time. I’m thinking now that it was actually a bargain given how technical the project would’ve been…probably a ton of consulting with those foreign contractors and looking for competitive bids on the aircraft and all. Mostly it’s good to hear that, like you say above, they didn’t have to form some committee, or spend countless dollars on bureaucrats….that would have been expensive.

[browningboy]

”Dude” I have never said there shouldn’t be a bounty on wolves. I have said, there never will be. The discussion, which a few guys had to turn shit slinging as usual, was about taking out entire, very specific packs of wolves in designated areas. Each subsequent year had a specific mandate. A bounty offered to hunters in general is not going to accomplish that.

As a business person, when you hire a crew to do a job, do you hire people who you think are qualified, or just go with the first bunch that shows up?

And of course you have to end by calling me a clueless, whiney, nutsack licker, which somehow is supposed to add prove that you’re right. But that has become the protocol with a small group on HBC. It really invites dialog and intelligent discussions. Who wouldn’t want to join in and get called names and be told to “F’off, we don’t need your stupid opinions here!”

And a few guys like to read everybody else”s posts with a loud, angry voice so they CAN be offended, then feel justified in being a super dick in their response.

Anyway, I’m happy they “wasted” all that money, so maybe there can still be a caribou season in the future. Best waste of money I’ve seen from a government in a long time.


Dude you come out like an azzhat you’ll get it back, just the way it is.. part of the hurt feeling club.. anyways move on

[Ambush]

.. anyways move on

You’re right, I should just move on…. like so many other hunters have already. Thanks for the tip.

[Darksith]

I encourage everyone to get more involved. Want a resident bounty, write a letter, go kill a wolf so you can make your case for it, talk to your local biologists that are aware of whats going on, ask how you can help, join a NGO conservation group like WSSBC. Im certainly not advocating that I think the government is doing it all right, or that it couldnt of been done better, but hell at least they are doing something. There is talk about the G Bear hunt again in the inner circles of our provincial government. It could be coming back, but it definitely wouldn't without all the hard working individuals pushing for it behind the scenes that most of us don't see or understand how much work it is, usually done by volunteers. Lets call them morons when when they deserve it, its a really high %, but lets at the very least applaud them when they do do something for us, even if its bungled in the eyes of some

[wideopenthrottle]

Happy new year HBC....wow...as painful as it was, i read the whole thread...i know some have, but i wonder how many of you commentors read any of the actual report on the cariboo recovery????....it was released more than a year ago IIRC (maybe even 2?).... i have honestly not revisited it since it was released but, not one person on here has mentioned the trapping and penning of the cows to protect them when dropping calves. i seem to remember that as having a significant impact on success (?cost?)... now i am going on memory alone, and i dont have the report link handy, but i seem to recall penning and culling together had the best results???....it might be worth a read (reread)...for me to reacquaint with the data.

[Ambush]

trapping and penning of the cows to protect them when dropping calves. i seem to remember that as having a significant impact on success (?cost?)... penning and culling together had the best results???...

Penning proved that the cows were getting pregnant and dropping viable calves. Upon release the wolves ( and cougars) killed too many to even maintain the herd. Culling as a single lever had the greatest impact.

In one herd culling and supplemental feeding showed the best increase for numbers.

[pro 111]

If I read that correctly….10 million bucks to kill 1,944 wolves. Nobody can **** up better than government.
well they spent 5.5 million here on Haida gwaii to kill 500 deer . So the moneyt was way better spent on the wolf kill than the deer up here.

[180grainer]

well they spent 5.5 million here on Haida gwaii to kill 500 deer . So the moneyt was way better spent on the wolf kill than the deer up here.
That's 11 thousand dollars per deer. But at least the meat went to people on the island that needed it.....right?

Ok, all the arguments about how hard it is to hunt wolves and no ones going to do it for 2 grand and even if they try their too incompetent to do it right and be effective....How many people into going to the Island and shooting deer for...lets give the Government a deal here......$8000.00? 8 grand folks. Who's into that? Deer are pretty hard to hunt. Most guys don't put in the time and effort and once you start shooting them they get wise and head into the deep bush so what's the point.....oh yea, and ya have to take a ferry. Guys in helicopters again.

How many years did this take the Government I wonder.

[RugDoctor]

That's 11 thousand dollars per deer. But at least the meat went to people on the island that needed it.....right?

Ok, all the arguments about how hard it is to hunt wolves and no ones going to do it for 2 grand and even if they try their too incompetent to do it right and be effective....How many people into going to the Island and shooting deer for...lets give the Government a deal here......$8000.00? 8 grand folks. Who's into that? Deer are pretty hard to hunt. Most guys don't put in the time and effort and once you start shooting them they get wise and head into the deep bush so what's the point.....oh yea, and ya have to take a ferry. Guys in helicopters again.

How many years did this take the Government I wonder.
So this was over priced? I don’t know about that…….? You’d better prove that. Provide the evidence…..plus, it was for conservation so I think in this case government fiscal irresponsibility is supposed to be applauded.

I don’t know man……I don’t think we’re allowed to bitch about this stuff.

[180grainer]

So this was over priced? I don’t know about that…….? You’d better prove that. Provide the evidence…..plus, it was for conservation so I think in this case government fiscal irresponsibility is supposed to be applauded.

I don’t know man……I don’t think we’re allowed to bitch about this stuff.
You're right. What was I thinking. I was going to start beeking off about increased bag limits, LEH group hunts with no bag limit, maybe resident baiting being allowed, but I think the Government probably considered that and decided it was better to spend money killing 500 deer than make money killing 500 deer. They know best. Well, they know if they **** up the monies not theirs and keeps coming so, there's that too...

[browningboy]

You’re right, I should just move on…. like so many other hunters have already. Thanks for the tip.

Audios amigo