Legal 4 Point?

[Gateholio]

It's been a few years since a discussion like this came up. Your thoughts on if this is a legal 4 point? :mrgreen:

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/401617760_10161187629995516_5078588126815025460_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=e4UwPn2ABEoAX8kNT6C&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AfAGvBD_hWt4wgFT_CONsMAU_ampp1Lgy2qXesHrZkSP Qw&oe=65599007

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/401652779_10161187630045516_3932380126394719516_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=oisJKY0BF40AX9PfpT8&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AfBBGnjQmMtgReqaWSxwo55_xRhXEMbd9n5bSdxKhpv9 tA&oe=65592661

[Ron.C]

I'd say yes, it's a 4 pt.

That first point (the one being measured) looks like it meets the requirements of a tine on page 4 of the regs, and a brow tine on pg 2.

Since the regs say a brow time is the first tine (point) projecting forward or upward in the lower 1/3 of the antler, that second point imo is not a brow tine but is the first of 4 countable points.

[Livewire322]

Similar to Ron, I’d say it’s legal, based on the definition of ‘brow tine’ in the regs.

That assumes you could see that lower tine though. Otherwise it’s a case of counting times after the trigger is pulled.


Sidebar: isn’t that a blacktail skull? If so, it’d be a legal buck regardless of points…

[Gateholio]

Yes, it's a blacktail and was shot in a season with no point restrictions. It just offers an interesting "legal 4 point" discussion.

[Ambush]

Absolutely legal by the definition in the regs.

[sako79]

Hundred percent legal

[ccrcc]

I think legal. Even if the brow tine were less that 2.5cm as there is no minimum size for brow tines, only configuration and location.
Cool BT buck.

[KodiakHntr]

I think legal. Even if the brow tine were less that 2.5cm as there is no minimum size for brow tines, only configuration and location.
Cool BT buck.


That’s incorrect. A tine has to be longer than it is wide, and over 2.5cm to be considered a tine.


Regardless of that, legal 4 pt as per the definition.

[whognu]

As you all know they are stickers and the brow times are above and symmetrical

Every single CO would take your deer and give it to the food bank

You might win in court; given the description

but you would not be eating very well

[landphil]

As you all know they are stickers and the brow times are above and symmetrical

Every single CO would take your deer and give it to the food bank

You might win in court; given the description

but you would not be eating very well

What would the married CO’s do?

[ccrcc]

That’s incorrect. A tine has to be longer than it is wide, and over 2.5cm to be considered a tine.


Regardless of that, legal 4 pt as per the definition.

Yep, yer absolutely right. The definition of brow tine says '...first tine...' so, seeing as there are more than one and this tine classifies as a 'tine'. All subsequent branches or brow tines are thus considered points and can then be counted into the total.
Thanks.

[KodiakHntr]

As you all know they are stickers and the brow times are above and symmetrical

Every single CO would take your deer and give it to the food bank

You might win in court; given the description

but you would not be eating very well

Not sure I remember seeing anything in writing that says bony protrusions that meet the definition of a tine aren’t counted if they are too low on the main beam… got a link to that legislation ?

[whognu]

What would the married CO’s do?

well played !!

[whognu]

What would the married CO’s do?

Probably go home and tell his kids “funny day, some nimrod tried to pass off a 3pt muley with stickers as a 4pt”

[Gateholio]

“Tine” is defined in the regulations.

Where is the definition of “sticker?”

[whognu]

“Tine” is defined in the regulations.

Where is the definition of “sticker?”

where’s the definition of a buck with a defined ‘whitetail rack’ with a ‘muley tail’?

as mentioned, in my never humble opinion, you would lose that deer 100 out of 100 times to the CO

yet likely be vindicated in court

fun exercise tho

[KodiakHntr]

Rack means less than nothing when it comes to species ID. Muley tail, muley ears, muley coloration, its a muley. Guess you are one of those guys that tries to argue “it’s a hybrid!” When you see a muley with an atypical rack?

Shot a couple whitetails with forked G2’s, didn’t make them hybrids, nor did it make them muleys.

I did have a pic I took a lifetime ago of a live spike muley in velvet (in November) that had about 14 tines around the bases on both sides that were 1-3” long. Huge bases, big bodied buck but his spikes were maybe only 12” long or so.
Asked that exact question to a few CO’s over the years until I lost the pic, and invariably the answer was always “must’ve had an injury to his nuts. But yeah, he’d be legal in a 4pt season. Probably doing him a favour if you would have killed him”

First tine pointing up or forward is the first tine. Everything after that is a countable tine if it meets the criteria.

No different than a mature bull moose that has a broken main beam before the paddle, longer than it is wide and over an inch in length makes it a legal spike on that side in a spike fork season.

[eatram]

Good to see more of these. Reminds me of this thread...

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?152825-LEGAL-or-ILLEGAL-A-thread-to-sharpen-each-other-through-debate

[Arctic Lake]

That was quite the thread Eatram ! It’s getting to be that you need to be a biologist to hunt . Laws and rules need to be as understandable as possible . One thing that comes to mind is how hunters that have English as their second language decidfer the rules ? Anyone care to chime in on that aspect
Arctic LKe
Good to see more of these. Reminds me of this thread...

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?152825-LEGAL-or-ILLEGAL-A-thread-to-sharpen-each-other-through-debate

[Arctic Lake]

I’d say it was a legal 4 point but what do I know
Arctic Lake

[islandhunter]

Cool double brow's
Nice buck!
Dont you include a blacktail's brow's in the point count?

[islandhunter]

Not talking about bc's mule deer(different species) 4 point season but scoring a blacktail?

[Gateholio]

Good to see more of these. Reminds me of this thread...

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?152825-LEGAL-or-ILLEGAL-A-thread-to-sharpen-each-other-through-debate

Yes, good thread. I had forgotten who started it though. :)

[Gateholio]

Not talking about bc's mule deer(different species) 4 point season but scoring a blacktail?

Blacktails and mule deer are scored the same way.

[antlerking]

Illegal as a 4 point mule deer , the regulations specify a 4 point mule deer has to have 4 points on one antler excluding the brow tine.

[warnniklz]

Point or tine is at least 2.5 cm as long as it's longer than it is wide

Brow tine is the FIRST point/tine projecting forward/up on the lower third of the antler.

4 point mule/black-tailed deer I a deer having 4 points or tines, not including the Brow TINE(singular)

Stickers and multiple brow tines are not a thing according to regulation definitions... this deer is legal

[Gianni2507]

That was quite the thread Eatram ! It’s getting to be that you need to be a biologist to hunt . Laws and rules need to be as understandable as possible . One thing that comes to mind is how hunters that have English as their second language decidfer the rules ? Anyone care to chime in on that aspect
Arctic LKe
As a Newish Hunter and Swiss-German as my first language I can tell you, most of it is pretty okay and understandable although some parts can get a bit tricky, spike-fork moose for example took me a bit to understand. On those occasions its mostly weird wording instead of not understanding words itself, so online translators don't necessarily help much.

[landphil]

Probably go home and tell his kids “funny day, some nimrod tried to pass off a 3pt muley with stickers as a 4pt”

I have to disagree with you on the probably, though it is possible. As much as I hate to agree with the majority most of the time, I have to in this case. But I wouldn’t shoot that in a 4pt season unless it let me get that close with my tape measure beforehand.

[Gateholio]

But I wouldn’t shoot that in a 4pt season unless it let me get that close with my tape measure beforehand.

That's a good point (no pun intended)

I sure wouldn't be pulling the trigger on that deer in a 4 point season unless it was a couple of feet in front of me and I could clearly make the call. And I question if I could make the proper judgement even then.

I have shot deer less than 10 yards away but never when I had to make such a close call on points.

[Gateholio]

Illegal as a 4 point mule deer , the regulations specify a 4 point mule deer has to have 4 points on one antler excluding the brow tine.

So..On the deer in the picture...Which is the brow tine? And how is brow tine defined in the regulations?

[tracker]

not a legal 4 point blacktail / mule deer tag punch

[Squire]

According to the definition in the BC hunting regs that states 4 points on one antler excluding the brow tine it would be legal. It may have been worded differently 30-something years ago when I started chasing alpine bucks. Back then it may have read above the brow tine because that was what guided our selection and was what we always looked for. When we glassed up a good buck we didn’t make a move to get closer unless we could see two forks on one side. Pretty simple really and I believe it was the intent of the regulation.

[Redthies]

As a Newish Hunter and Swiss-German as my first language I can tell you, most of it is pretty okay and understandable although some parts can get a bit tricky, spike-fork moose for example took me a bit to understand. On those occasions its mostly weird wording instead of not understanding words itself, so online translators don't necessarily help much.

If Switzerdeutsch is your first language, English must not be too difficult. Both my wife’s and my family speak German, but when I hear Switzerdeutsch, it’s like space aliens talking!:lol:


Clark, not sure if it’s the same for everyone, but your photo has disappeared from your first post on my tablet.

[BeerMan]

Pic is gone for me to.