Interesting Morning…

[Redthies]

Got a call from a neighbor Wednesday evening saying he had shit “the biggest mule deer I’ve ever seen”. A 5x4 with huge body mass. But, after waiting an appropriate amount of time, he and his wife found it bedded, and slowly approached. It appeared to be dead. They were still a reasonable distance away when as he was saying “I should put another shot in it to be sure” it jumped up and bolted down a hill into nasty nasty ground. With last light rapidly approaching, they decided to recover it in the morning.

She had to work, so I got the call. We drive up the hill on a “meat packing” mission, but knowing there was another big 4x4 buck in the same area, we both had our deer rifles. We found their tracks easily and side hilled in to where he had bedded. Tons of blood there in a pile on rib cage area indents in the grass. We start tracking blood and hoof prints down a 35-40* slope into dense cover in the valley bottom. As we are closing in on the valley bottom, we are making noise so any uninvited breakfast guests are aware of our presence. We here large branches snapping in two directions. Uh-oh. Time to put a round in the chamber boys…

We are able to follow the blood and clumsy hoof marks relatively easily right into the tightest and thickest stand of low evergreens in the whole area. Feeling a bit off by all the branches snapping (now 75-100 yards away by sounds of it), we cautiously move ahead, with my neighbor in front and me on overwatch. Here is where it gets weird. We find “the” deer. Wedged under a fallen tree, is a good sized buck with a huge hole +/- 18” diameter in the drivers side rib cage, and another large portion of passenger side rear quarter being eaten from the other side of the fallen tree. He closes in and starts saying “this isn’t my deer”. I’m watching our backs, so not getting a really good look at it, and he is holding the rack saying “this rack is half the size of what I shot”, sounding really confused. Then we see a bullet hole in the neck, and he shot it in heart/lung area on the other side. I take a quick look at the deer and say “umm, that’s a whitetail!” At this point, he settles a bit and says “oh shit, you’re right”. So now we are on a “kill” that some large animals have claimed, and realizing it’s not his deer, decide to back off carefully and leave them to it. We made it back up the 1000’ to the top of the valley in fairly quick time, although stopping for time to watch our backs and catch our breath enough to be able to shoot straight if we are charged.

Once we top out, and are satisfied we weren’t followed, I spot another big mule deer, and so switch from hunted to hunter in an instant. After a minute or so of staring contest waiting for him to turn his head a bit, I confirm he’s just a 3pt, so he gets a pass.

We drive down to town and I say I want to ask his wife what SHE saw last night. Both these two are in their 40s and are life long hunters. They know their animals. Wife gives me a funny look when I ask “how big was the rack”? She does the hands 2 feet apart a 18” high and says “huge”. Then I say “you know the difference between a mule and a WT, right?” At this point she’s looking really confused, so we tell her our story. She was counting tines with binoculars to confirm 4 point legality at 200 yards (I ranged it). There is no way she would have got it wrong. These people are ethical hunters. Either way, the deer we found was legal to shoot, but it wasn’t the deer THEY shot. Yet it was freshly killed, and near the bottom of the blood trail. It’s a mystery…

If you’ve read this far, I hope you enjoyed the story. Now here is my question: what predators would drag a deer and wedge it under a big fallen tree, and then share their kill? What predators would make lots of noise moving around in the woods? What predators would two noisy hunters be able to push off their food? Everything but the push off the food sounds like G-bears to me. Would black bears wedge their kill under a tree? We are in the west Koots and were in fairly textbook G-bear territory. 5600’ elevation, with steep terrain and lots of avalanche chutes and steep open meadows, mixed in with mature timber.

Walking down the blood trail:
https://i.postimg.cc/hv7T1kSG/291349-E6-52-CA-4396-922-D-10679-EB51779.jpg (https://postimg.cc/kRq2nhRr)

Heading in to the thick of it:
https://i.postimg.cc/kgnrL9LL/D12685-C0-3-B6-C-4-A56-8105-9-B618322515-A.jpg (https://postimg.cc/KRssMXG5)

3pt I followed for a bit:
https://i.postimg.cc/7ZChG3Zx/E0-DBD10-D-9408-4-FBF-9-BE4-0856663565-F4.jpg (https://postimg.cc/75kwjTzc)

[high horse Hal]

Pretty strange alright.
Possibly just a couple bears found the dead deer which had been wounded and got away? they like to die in the toughest places it seems
Any chance of still following up on the original trail for the big mdeer? Maybe it was just coincidence to be in the same area of another hunt gone bad

on second thought, maybe the noises you heard were another hunt looking for the one htat got away and the preying was just coyotes?

we'll never know

[Redthies]

No, we were making a lot of noise (yo bear etc), and the road had just been opened the afternoon before after being cleared of about 50 blown down trees (12” diameter +). It’s very unlikely that anyone else had been hunting there yet this season, and there is no other way in than we came (except parachute or helicopter). We discussed going back with extra people today, but the likelihood that the animals had not gotten to another animal mortally wounded in the exact same area is very low.

[islandhunter]

The dead deer was obviously the deer they shot. Whether he thought he got it in the lungs or thought it was a mulie, thats the deer. In my opinion of course lol

[jac]

I have witnessed a grizzly doing this and they often will stay and protect there kill

[VLD43]

It is possible that if the deer was wounded and weak, it could have attracted a predator. it may have tried to run away and expired while running and ended up wedged where you found it. I have seen deer pile up like that before. The predator follows up and starts consuming the now dead deer. Your thoughts?

[northof49]

I have seen shot deer try to wedge under woody debris like that to hide before they expire. That is likely what happened. The holes from preds were likely from one or two wolves that followed the blood trail or possibly a smaller black bear that backed outta there when you guys were hollering. Zero chance it was a griz as it would not have relinquished the carcass so easily. JMO. Interesting storey, thanks for posting.

[Redthies]

Yeach, I thought Grizz less likely as they would not have backed off. My neighbor says there were two deer that ran when he shot, so is now wondering if the WT was behind his muley and got hit by a pass through? It was a .308 with factory Federal ammo (blue box or Fusion, so nothing special) so I’m not sure if it would have had enough jam to pass through, and then pass through a neck as well? It’s like the magic loogy episode here!

[KodiakHntr]

Big old bears get that way by being smart. Have seen it before where a mature bear will back off for a few minutes to assess the situation when people show up on a kill. Won’t necessarily stay off, but they will move off a bit to figure out their moves.

As far as a pass through goes, absolutely possible that the bullet sailed through and hit another animal behind the target buck.

[islandhunter]

Man, I gotta find this spot where you can shoot a big mulie and whitetail buck at the same time with 1 shot! Pretty cool

[Redthies]

Man, I gotta find this spot where you can shoot a big mulie and whitetail buck at the same time with 1 shot! Pretty cool

Right? I’m 4 hours from there scouting for my moose LEH and I’d kill (literally) to have one or the other deer around!

[Redthies]

Big old bears get that way by being smart. Have seen it before where a mature bear will back off for a few minutes to assess the situation when people show up on a kill. Won’t necessarily stay off, but they will move off a bit to figure out their moves.

As far as a pass through goes, absolutely possible that the bullet sailed through and hit another animal behind the target buck.

Thanks for the bear info. I’ve had a few people say a Grizz wouldn’t leave it’s kill, but the signs all pointed to a Grizz, and that makes a way better story:mrgreen:

[KodiakHntr]

He didn’t necessarily leave it, but he might have backed out for a few minutes to go peek through the windows when you were knocking at the front door uninvited.

[Redthies]

He didn’t necessarily leave it, but he might have backed out for a few minutes to go peek through the windows when you were knocking at the front door uninvited.

Exactly. If he/they weren’t back on it 10 mins after we left I’d be surprised and frankly, disappointed. Better they should eat what’s there and dead than go hunt a live deer.

[high horse Hal]

IMO on a rare occasion a Griz is so committed to a kill they stick around or defend it against all including humans
Most of the time they just f off never to be seen again
this comes from a few attempts at staking out a kill hoping for a return
A complete spur of the moment surprise intrusion by a person would probably excite a different reaction but IME if they catch human scent they just vacate


but thats a hijack, so back to regular program..........

[Darksith]

No, we were making a lot of noise (yo bear etc), and the road had just been opened the afternoon before after being cleared of about 50 blown down trees (12” diameter +). It’s very unlikely that anyone else had been hunting there yet this season, and there is no other way in than we came (except parachute or helicopter). We discussed going back with extra people today, but the likelihood that the animals had not gotten to another animal mortally wounded in the exact same area is very low.

Think about this statement...unlikely anyone else had been hunting there yet you find a dead shot deer? You followed a blood trail from the spot he shot it...

Hunters see a big rack, maybe poor light or last light...mistakes happen. No one is calling their ethics into question but its almost a certainty that thats what they shot. Maybe there were 2 bucks and she was looking at the big one and he shot the smaller one? Ive seen that happen before as well. Trigger gets pulled, I say you missed, they say no I didn't, dead deer but not the deer I was telling them to shoot, I should of been more descriptive of which buck I was putting them on...

[Redthies]

Darksith: You may be correct. I have no firsthand knowledge of what got shot. BUT, the deer we found was also a legal animal, so there is not even a hint of wrongdoing either way.

hhH: No hijack there. I asked for input from people with Grizz experience, and it sounds like you have some.

I will be up in that same area a few days this week and will keep an open for birds to see if the “magic loogy” went through a mule deer and hit a white tail as well…

[KodiakHntr]

Darksith: You may be correct. I have no firsthand knowledge of what got shot. BUT, the deer we found was also a legal animal, so there is not even a hint of wrongdoing either way.




Wellllllllll not exactly. If he did in fact shoot through the first one and kill the second accident, then there were some offenses potentially after that point when the dead deer was found.

[Darksith]

Wellllllllll not exactly. If he did in fact shoot through the first one and kill the second accident, then there were some offenses potentially after that point when the dead deer was found.

I certainly wasn't calling out any offences nor questioning any ethics. Just saying it makes the most sense that the animal they found was the animal they shot. If it was me I would probably be heading back in there and cutting my tag and taking the head. I understand why they would retreat, that makes sense, having the ability to have 2 or really 4 whitetail tags would make that my obvious choice but I wouldn't judge anyone for choosing differently...

I doubt they shot through 1 animal to hit a 2nd, I think it was more just theres the deer and when they went from bino's to rifle they re-aquired a different animal.

[Redthies]

Wellllllllll not exactly. If he did in fact shoot through the first one and kill the second accident, then there were some offenses potentially after that point when the dead deer was found.

Curious what you think was an offence here? I am not sure what the original target was, (and neither are you). The deer we found is not, according to the shooter, the deer he shot. That deer was being eaten by predators that were in the area and acting up. Nobody shot anything illegal, and every reasonable attempt to recover the animal was made. Based on the circumstances we found ourselves in, to stay on the kill longer, would have likely ended up with one of us, or one of the preds either injured or dead. If something here seems contrary to the BC regs, I’d love to hear it…

[Redthies]

I doubt they shot through 1 animal to hit a 2nd, I think it was more just theres the deer and when they went from bino's to rifle they re-aquired a different animal.

Shooter was always on the rifle/scope. His wife was spotting with binos. That part of it I am just going by what I was told. I just went up to help try and recover an animal, so my only firsthand knowledge is of day two. I can only judge day ones events from what I was told, and at 200 yards (I ranged it) with a 12x scope, in clear open ground, I don’t see much chance for confusion for two experienced hunters… Obviously “stuff” can and does happen, but it still would be nice to solve the mystery.

[KodiakHntr]

Curious what you think was an offence here? I am not sure what the original target was, (and neither are you). The deer we found is not, according to the shooter, the deer he shot. That deer was being eaten by predators that were in the area and acting up. Nobody shot anything illegal, and every reasonable attempt to recover the animal was made. Based on the circumstances we found ourselves in, to stay on the kill longer, would have likely ended up with one of us, or one of the preds either injured or dead. If something here seems contrary to the BC regs, I’d love to hear it…


Take what I wrote in full context. What I said was IF he shot through the first one and killed the second one accidentally (the most likely scenario given your description of there being no possible chance of anyone else in the area due to the road being opened, and there being a bullet hole in the neck yada yada yada) then POTENTIALLY there is an argument to made for there being an offense. It’s an offense to accidentally kill wildlife and fail to report it. Doesn’t matter what the original target was, what matters is where the bullet ended up.

As has been stated by several people at this point, it’s easy to not see other animals in the vicinity if you are focused on one particular animal.

My only point being was that it sounds like it hasn’t crossed your mind that potentially there could be a case made that there were an error or two from a legal view point if you were having this discussion on the side of the road with a zealous CO.
-from what you wrote here, it is a reasonable assumption as per your description (no one else in the area, dead deer with a bullet hole in it at the end of the blood trail in the same place as an animal was shot at…) that it was killed accidentally by the original shooter.
I’m not saying that there was any obligation to cut a tag, or retrieve the dead one, or anything like that. Just pointing out that it’s probable that a pass through hit the second deer. Or the CIA had a second shooter on a grassy knoll. One or the other.
Stuff like this doesn’t have any positive outcomes for anyone involved if it falls in the lap of the wrong individual through an innocent conversation, or say if you want to tell people about an experience you had and put it out on the web for the entire world to have access to and keep adding details.

A CO that I know reasonably well always used to word it like this “what would a reasonable person do in this situation? What conclusion would a reasonable person come to here?” And then base his follow up from that.

If it were me, I don’t think my assumption would be that a pair of grizzlies stole someone’s animal from km’s away and packed it up a mountain to hide under a tree right where a second animal was shot the night before. Sounds a little too coincidental when you boil it down. And if that were my scenario, I think the choice would come down to either making a phone call to say “hey I shot at a deer and a pair of grizzlies claimed it before I could retrieve it” - end of story - OR I would simply keep my mouth shut about it, with the expectation that my hunting partner wouldn’t put it out on display for the world to discuss…

[Redthies]

Got it. To be clear, I am not 100% certain that the neck hole WAS a bullet hole. Plenty of things could puncture the neck while bears are having their way with it (and the more I think about it, it was too big to be an entrance wound unless hunting with a 12 gauge slug, and there was no surface blood around it, nor was it ragged, so not likely an exit, and quite possibly done post mortem) like short broken branch on the fallen tree etc.

To your point about discussing it openly, nothing is trying to be covered up (as nothing was done illegally), and I posted this thread with consent from the other party involved. We just wanted to run the “what was likely on the deer” question past other hunters as we were both under the impression grizzlies would not leave their meal, yet that is what it looked like to us.

[KodiakHntr]

Yeah, fair enough.

And believe me, I’m not trying to say that you are covering anything up.

[Darksith]

If it were me, I don’t think my assumption would be that a pair of grizzlies stole someone’s animal from km’s away and packed it up a mountain to hide under a tree right where a second animal was shot the night before. Sounds a little too coincidental when you boil it down. And if that were my scenario, I think the choice would come down to either making a phone call to say “hey I shot at a deer and a pair of grizzlies claimed it before I could retrieve it” - end of story - OR I would simply keep my mouth shut about it, with the expectation that my hunting partner wouldn’t put it out on display for the world to discuss…

1 or 2 grizzlies did not pack a deer km's period, that simply doesn't happen. At best they bury it, they won't wedge it in between some trees so another animal doesn't take it. No need to make a phone call, we only need to cut a tag once we retrieve the animal, it didn't happen. We have our own personal ethics, and that will differ between us. No wrong doing here at all, just something happened that they don't think happened but actually happened. Probably not the craziest story, if I shot a huge mule buck, I'd be going in with bells on day after day bears be damned to try and find it, whether its been eaten by a bear or not I'd want to punch that tag and get that bone even if I couldn't get the meat, but odds are it was that whitetail.

[Redthies]

I’ll be back in the same area starting again tomorrow or Friday for three days, and will definitely be watching for birds etc. We have had rain, so any blood trails will be gone.

[Darksith]

I’ll be back in the same area starting again tomorrow or Friday for three days, and will definitely be watching for birds etc. We have had rain, so any blood trails will be gone.

good luck, there won't be much left at this point, no birds but yup keep an eye out and share if you find something. Would be a crazy end to this story if you do!

[Redthies]

good luck, there won't be much left at this point, no birds but yup keep an eye out and share if you find something. Would be a crazy end to this story if you do!

So far two days in the area, some crows this morning heading that way, but didn’t see them go down in the trees. Saw 4 moose (two big bulls and two cows about to get a solid rogering), and 6 md does. I contemplated going down to see what was going on with the carcass, but have a friends 14 year old in tow, and I won’t put him in that kind of potential situation.