Stone sheep

[stoneramhunter]

Looks like a few decent rams have come out of the mountains this year despite the hassle with smoke. Going back in for end of season hunt same area i was in earlier. Just green scored a nice stone ram for a buddy came in at 170 1/2 not bad for his first ram :) 10 years old 401/2 inch right and 38 left with bases impressive at 15 1/2 inches.

[cuervosail]

Awesome. Good luck, George!

[Patman7]

That is a beautiful ram! I got one up near dease lake about three weeks ago, 35 and 34 inch with 13 3/8 bases. Eight years old and full curl. Good luck on your next trip

[srupp]

hmm buddy of mine got a very good stoner and a goat..both are his first....

hope some more photos and details..
Steven

[REMINGTON JIM]

That is a beautiful ram! I got one up near dease lake about three weeks ago, 35 and 34 inch with 13 3/8 bases. Eight years old and full curl. Good luck on your next trip

Congrats on your Ram ! :D RJ

[Husky7mm]

I got to eat sheep loins and hold and admire the heads of stone sheep for the second year in a row after family friends had a stop over at our home in GP. Very tasty and very regal animals. Wish I would have given it a go will I was a BCer. $80000 US now for an outfitted hunt I am told. My goodness, is it true?

I will be putting in a real effort next year for northern Bighorns, should be fun.

Congratulations to the sheep hunters out there.

[high horse Hal]

So glad we are not reading another horror story like last year with all the illegal horns coming in.....................so far

[358mag]

So glad we are not reading another horror story like last year with all the illegal horns coming in.....................so far
Just wait season not over yet . If this underage resident harvest continues you will see LEH in the near future.
Seeing some you tube videos guys have been posted I can’t believe guys are pulling the trigger on those squeaker rams.

[Haddy]

The CI's now have a new measuring tool they are required to use and anything under an inch over the nose, regardless of age, has to be confirmed with the regional wildlife biologist. From what our local inspector here says they're trying to stop people from shooting solely on age due to the recent amount of underage and short curl rams killed in the past couple years due to false annuli being counted.

[dapesche]

we got a broomed 9 yr old this year and we spent 2 days spiked out under a tarp watching him to ensure we had the age right. It was stressful.

[j270wsm]

The CI's now have a new measuring tool they are required to use and anything under an inch over the nose, regardless of age, has to be confirmed with the regional wildlife biologist. From what our local inspector here says they're trying to stop people from shooting solely on age due to the recent amount of underage and short curl rams killed in the past couple years due to false annuli being counted.

im going to get shit for this……rather than make more work for CI’s and the regional bio, wouldn’t it be easier to remove harvesting based on age…..?? After all it would be 100% successful in eliminating underage rams from being killed. Fixing the issue around short rams being killed is going to require experience field judging sheep, education and for people to learn that it’s ok to go home empty handed.

[Darksith]

we got a broomed 9 yr old this year and we spent 2 days spiked out under a tarp watching him to ensure we had the age right. It was stressful.

am I listening to your podcast as we speak?

[Darksith]

im going to get shit for this……rather than make more work for CI’s and the regional bio, wouldn’t it be easier to remove harvesting based on age…..?? After all it would be 100% successful in eliminating underage rams from being killed. Fixing the issue around short rams being killed is going to require experience field judging sheep, education and for people to learn that it’s ok to go home empty handed.

It wouldn't remove harvesting of under age rams bc rams are being brought in that don't even meet full curl. The other thing no one talks about is how many rams get shot and just walked away from when they realize it wasn't legal?

We don't need more legislation or a change removing shooting on age, what we need is more education. I am 100% for a hunter education course to be completed in order for someone to buy a ram tag. Make it a course that has to be done every 3 years, cost of taking the online course go to a group like WSSBC. I don't think people are out there with the notion of making a mistake, but it does happen so educating guys is the best way to move forward.

As for comments from others above, I haven't heard of too many short rams this year, I think even last year was better than the atrocious 2021 season...look at the caribou leaked doc in reg 6...its not that things arent sustainable currently, its about control. I won't be surprised to see LEH coming but it won't be IMO bc of unsustainable illegal harvests. I think that was a blip due to covid, but it wasn't good and needs to be corrected yes. We should have 0 confiscated and 0 walked away from, that should be our goal as sheep hunters. Age age age, the oldest are the ones we want harvested, taking a 6 that meets curl for your first is fine if you feel thats what you must do, but don't kill another one that isn't 8. Every ram you shoot should be the biggest oldest ram you've ever shot...

[j270wsm]

What is the definition of an underage ram? The way I understand the regs is any ram, regardless of age, whose horns break the bridge of the nose is a legal( full curl ) ram. If the horns don’t break the bridge of the nose then the ram must be 8yrs old to be harvested. Is my above interpretation correct?

[stoneramhunter]

The CI's now have a new measuring tool they are required to use and anything under an inch over the nose, regardless of age, has to be confirmed with the regional wildlife biologist. From what our local inspector here says they're trying to stop people from shooting solely on age due to the recent amount of underage and short curl rams killed in the past couple years due to false annuli being counted.

im slightly confused if the horn breaks the nose its legal so a 1/4 inch over the nose is a legal ram. if you have a massive broomed ram and its a 1/2 over the nose why would they need a biologist to inspect it?you bring it in they put it in the rig and it passes inspection regardless of age, if the ci inspects a ram and its not legal he is required to contact the biologist to report and the ram is confiscated. i think education prior to shooting is a better solution. Perhaps they need to take a approved course on aging rams if its your first stone ram tag. im not keen after years of hunting rams to be required to take a exam every three years.

[stoneramhunter]

What is the definition of an underage ram? The way I understand the regs is any ram, regardless of age, whose horns break the bridge of the nose is a legal( full curl ) ram. If the horns don’t break the bridge of the nose then the ram must be 8yrs old to be harvested. Is my above interpretation correct?
you are correct one of the horns must break the bridge of the nose or be 8 years old

[LBM]

im slightly confused if the horn breaks the nose its legal so a 1/4 inch over the nose is a legal ram. if you have a massive broomed ram and its a 1/2 over the nose why would they need a biologist to inspect it?you bring it in they put it in the rig and it passes inspection regardless of age, if the ci inspects a ram and its not legal he is required to contact the biologist to report and the ram is confiscated. i think education prior to shooting is a better solution. Perhaps they need to take a approved course on aging rams if its your first stone ram tag. im not keen after years of hunting rams to be required to take a exam every three years.
There also may be the case of certain inspectors passing short or underage rams. Was showing on here awhile back

[j270wsm]

you are correct one of the horns must break the bridge of the nose or be 8 years old

Not directed at you, but you responded to my question so I’m quoting your response.

so again, what is the definition of an underage ram? Is it a ram that doesnt meet full curl or a ram that doesn’t meet a required age designation?

[Darksith]

Not directed at you, but you responded to my question so I’m quoting your response.

so again, what is the definition of an underage ram? Is it a ram that doesnt meet full curl or a ram that doesn’t meet a required age designation?

under age ram would be 7 or less

short ram could be 12 years old but impossible to verify and doesn't break the nose. This is an exaggeration of a typical scenario, as near the base of the horn the age really stacks up, but there have been court cases where the argument was how many years were broomed away. The courts almost always favour the biologist.

[stoneramhunter]

Not directed at you, but you responded to my question so I’m quoting your response.

so again, what is the definition of an underage ram? Is it a ram that doesnt meet full curl or a ram that doesn’t meet a required age designation?

if it was possible for a three year old ram to break the nose it would be a legal ram but immature and underage but legal. if it does not break the nose it has to have 8 anuli. it could be a 14 year old ram but only have 7 anuli and not break the nose that would not be legal. i think that you mxing the term underage with what is legal perhaps. really it it was possible for a 2 year old ram to have a full curl by definition it would be legal. An anuli is an anuli if it has 8 you are good to go regardless if they are stacked

[stoneramhunter]

under age ram would be 7 or less

short ram could be 12 years old but impossible to verify and doesn't break the nose. This is an exaggeration of a typical scenario, as near the base of the horn the age really stacks up, but there have been court cases where the argument was how many years were broomed away. The courts almost always favour the biologist.

\how many were broomed away has no legal status it is clear in the regulations a sheep must have 8 anuli or break the bridge of the nose. \i have several broomed older rams clearly over thirteen years of age but only have 8 or plus anuli

[LBM]

\how many were broomed away has no legal status it is clear in the regulations a sheep must have 8 anuli or break the bridge of the nose. \i have several broomed older rams clearly over thirteen years of age but only have 8 or plus anuli

Any chance you could post a picture of some of these rams that have broomed off 5 years of there horns.

[stoneramhunter]

Any chance you could post a picture of some of these rams that have broomed off 5 years of there horns.

i have a few in the photo gallery

[high horse Hal]

....... \i have several broomed older rams clearly over thirteen years of age but only have 8 or plus anulihow were these aged at 13+ ?

[stoneramhunter]

how were these aged at 13+ ?

i have a couple heavily broomed one side and the other 13 years old, a few from experience. as well have had a tooth aging done on one of my rams aged at 14. one of my rams is broomed at the skull plate one side and is also 13 yrs old.

[LBM]

i have a few in the photo gallery

Had a look some nice rams but didnt notice any broomed off 5 years, maybe the side not showing in picture.

[dapesche]

am I listening to your podcast as we speak?

Good chance you are.... Left off the highway

[j270wsm]

under age ram would be 7 or less.

This is my exact point that I made earlier….if you were to remove the age requirement and only have horn length for harvesting rams then you wouldn’t have under age rams being killed.

[LBM]

This is my exact point that I made earlier….if you were to remove the age requirement and only have horn length for harvesting rams then you wouldn’t have under age rams being killed.

You would still have short rams shot, which could still be young just not by the age requirement anymore. Just like in the EK bighorns they use to have the 8 year old requirement as well but taken away for same reason to many
sheep being shot that people thought were 8. There is still short sheep being shot.

[high horse Hal]

Good chance you are.... Left off the highwaycan this be shared

[dapesche]

can this be shared

The podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5CP5Kp356IlvAjF3ZqgSMh

[dapesche]

if you go to rokslide link, I posted some pics in a Kowa discussion. Have pics of the ram alive and on the ground. Just have a peak at the last two posts so you can see what we were looking at for a couple days in a variety of different weather.

https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/kowa-55-77-88.287081/page-3#post-3274490

[rageous]

This is my exact point that I made earlier….if you were to remove the age requirement and only have horn length for harvesting rams then you wouldn’t have under age rams being killed.

Looking at Taxidermist posts on IG there seems to be many full curl rams that are less than 8 years old.
And the opposite, many non full curl rams that are older than 8.

Aswell as the older full curls.

It’s fine the way it is if people follow the rules. Education…

[j270wsm]

You would still have short rams shot, which could still be young just not by the age requirement anymore. Just like in the EK bighorns they use to have the 8 year old requirement as well but taken away for same reason to many
sheep being shot that people thought were 8. There is still short sheep being shot.

The only way to reduce/eliminate short sheep being shot is through experience field judging sheep, and education…..and the only way to eliminate under age sheep from being shot is to eliminate the age requirement.
I understand that the rule is there so old broomed off rams that will never make full curl can be removed from the herd and I’m not advocating to change the 8yr rule, just pointing out that underage sheep are only being killed due to the age requirement rule. If the rule wasn’t there then the only issues we would hear about would be short sheep.

[high horse Hal]

the management goal is to maintain a healthy population of mixed age rams so the 8 year reg is almost more important than the curl reg

Hunters better just get onside with this and quit the nitpicking or management may just simplify everything and go leh/any ram
the what-ifs about shot and left or poached rams is pointless jibber too, those numbers are in the winter kill/natural causes column, deadside data
what counts is what is left on the landscape

[rageous]

….and the only way to eliminate under age sheep from being shot is to eliminate the age requirement.


I’ve seen a 5 year old full curl stone sheep in a taxidermist shop.
Many 6/7 year old rams that break the nose.
I disagree with your statement.

[AllDay]

Yup. I think more hunters will end up taking younger rams over the bridge because they can’t shoot the old ram that is below the bridge. Education is the important piece.

[j270wsm]

I’ve seen a 5 year old full curl stone sheep in a taxidermist shop.
Many 6/7 year old rams that break the nose.
I disagree with your statement.

You’re missing the point….any ram whose horn tip breaks the bridge of the nose is a legal ram, regardless of age. Just because it’s 3-4-5-6yrs old doesn’t make it an underage ram! It might be younger than what the ministry wants to be harvested but it’s not an underage ram….the only way it’s an underage ram is if the horn tips don’t break the bridge of the nose and it’s less than 8yrs old.

[Walking Buffalo]

The most accurate and important post in this thread.



the management goal is to maintain a healthy population of mixed age rams so the 8 year reg is almost more important than the curl reg

Hunters better just get onside with this and quit the nitpicking or management may just simplify everything and go leh/any ram
the what-ifs about shot and left or poached rams is pointless jibber too, those numbers are in the winter kill/natural causes column, deadside data
what counts is what is left on the landscape

[Stone Sheep Steve]

the management goal is to maintain a healthy population of mixed age rams so the 8 year reg is almost more important than the curl reg

Hunters better just get onside with this and quit the nitpicking or management may just simplify everything and go leh/any ram
the what-ifs about shot and left or poached rams is pointless jibber too, those numbers are in the winter kill/natural causes column, deadside data
what counts is what is left on the landscape


This^^^^^^^^

[archerylife]

You’re missing the point….any ram whose horn tip breaks the bridge of the nose is a legal ram, regardless of age. Just because it’s 3-4-5-6yrs old doesn’t make it an underage ram! It might be younger than what the ministry wants to be harvested but it’s not an underage ram….the only way it’s an underage ram is if the horn tips don’t break the bridge of the nose and it’s less than 8yrs old.

your rams that are 3-4-5-6 yrs old are still breading stock, weather they break the nose or not. 8+ year old rams don’t rut much 10+ I’d say not at all. This is why they are considered underaged sheep. Harvesting an old mature ram that not longer adds to the population should be everyone’s goal.

[high horse Hal]

You’re missing the point….any ram whose horn tip breaks the bridge of the nose is a legal ram, regardless of age. Just because it’s 3-4-5-6yrs old doesn’t make it an underage ram! It might be younger than what the ministry wants to be harvested but it’s not an underage ram….the only way it’s an underage ram is if the horn tips don’t break the bridge of the nose and it’s less than 8yrs old.correct
why get hung up on the term 'under age' , its either legal by restrictions or not legal

[Stone Sheep Steve]

If a person wants to make an informed decision about this subject we need to see population trends, harvest trends, illegal harvest trends…etc….otherwise it’s much ado about nothing.

SSS