Why does LEH take longer every damn year.

[RyoTHC]

They are fully automated now, and have at least 10 months of the year to figure out what they are going to do next year and they still can’t manage to have it out at a reasonable time so people can book holidays for the earlier hunts.

insane how inept this government is. Across the board.

[moosinaround]

They are fully automated now, and have at least 10 months of the year to figure out what they are going to do next year and they still can’t manage to have it out at a reasonable time so people can book holidays for the earlier hunts.

insane how inept this government is. Across the board.

And it doesn't matter what political party it is either??!!!

[MRP]

Payed by the month
no expectations
no goals
no oversight

[browningboy]

The NDP would love to eliminate hunting all together, so who knows what's happening, it's not surprising as I'm getting used to getting screwed by governments...

In all honesty, they could have the draw and have the results the next day as it's all computer driven.

[Bullreaper]

It is ridiculous. I have no idea their reasoning. I’d love if they went to a system like a few states have. Where you have your results for most species by the new year. A lot of people, myself included, have to have there holiday requests for the year in by mid-February. Getting results in late June or Early July is BS.

[Imdone]

Because of the new and pending agreements between FNs and Gov.
Plus management by emotions rather than science.

Trying to appease FNs demands, trying to please the green antis, and trying less and less to please licensed hunters.

Many Bios that loved and had passion for their jobs and trying to do better for wildlife, are done and have left or looking for new jobs. Can't blame them.

Government is only there to look like they are doing good, while putting in enough time for their pensions.

[wideopenthrottle]

https://www.all-about-moose.com/limited-entry-hunting.html

this link shows the LEH dates for the last 13 years

here it is


2022 - Monday June 27th
2021 - Monday June 21st
2020 - Monday June 22nd
2019 - Monday June 24th
2018 - Tuesday June 19th
2017 - Thursday June 15th
2016 - Monday June 27th ... login to BCHUNTING (https://j100.gov.bc.ca/cit/wild/) using your BCeID (https://www.bceid.ca/logon.aspx) to see your LEH Results
2015 - Wednesday July 8th
2014 - Tuesday July 8th
2013 - Tuesday July 2nd
2012 - Tuesday June 26th
2011 - Wednesday June 15th
2010 - Monday June 14th

[high horse Hal]

I remember that glorious change in 2015-2017! Gov't promised to try and appease the complaints coming in about such a late draw in July, promise was realized and the date jumped a whole 3 weeks!
Then like most Gov't promises it has eroded away again to late June date. The strain must have been unsustainable

[Walking Buffalo]

One good reason for a draw in June is time to assess game populations after the winter.

Anyone expecting a draw earlier than this is not considering the wildlife.

[Livewire322]

One good reason for a draw in June is time to assess game populations after the winter.

Anyone expecting a draw earlier than this is not considering the wildlife.

Yeah!
It’s not like there are other jurisdictions within North America that also allow hunting and have more severe winter conditions, but still mange to churn out draw results earlier and/or process their draws more quickly, right?

[j270wsm]

^^^^ you must be referencing provinces/states that actually manage for growth of their wild life.

[jamfarm]

https://www.all-about-moose.com/limited-entry-hunting.html

this link shows the LEH dates for the last 13 years

here it is


2022 - Monday June 27th
2021 - Monday June 21st
2020 - Monday June 22nd
2019 - Monday June 24th
2018 - Tuesday June 19th
2017 - Thursday June 15th
2016 - Monday June 27th ... login to BCHUNTING (https://j100.gov.bc.ca/cit/wild/) using your BCeID (https://www.bceid.ca/logon.aspx) to see your LEH Results
2015 - Wednesday July 8th
2014 - Tuesday July 8th
2013 - Tuesday July 2nd
2012 - Tuesday June 26th
2011 - Wednesday June 15th
2010 - Monday June 14th



These are the dates that our hopes and dreams are shattered. I just want to LEH to come out so I can start dreaming about all the draws I probably won't get, that's gotta be soon.

[horseman2]

Crime wouldn't pay if the Government ran it!

Why would anyone expect success from any thing the Government ran?

[high horse Hal]

One good reason for a draw in June is time to assess game populations after the winter.
Anyone expecting a draw earlier than this is not considering the wildlife.this seems to be a common belief, as if inventories are done each year on the LEH species
imo there isn't one species that is being run so close to the tipping point that the leh would be the trigger even with 100%success, which there never is. Safety factors are huge when it comes to the number of permits let out, just in case :rolleyes:

[Treed]

These are the dates that our hopes and dreams are shattered. I just want to LEH to come out so I can start dreaming about all the draws I probably won't get, that's gotta be soon.

The draw could come out in August or September for all I care. More time to hope and dream for a draw and less time to be disappointed again!!!

[HarryToolips]

Well here is the latest provincial ungulate populations estimate:

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/environment/plants-animals-and-ecosystems/wildlife-wildlife-habitat/ungulates/2022_provincial_ungulate_population_estimates.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiIkNKdibX-AhVqLzQIHVstD6gQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw36dCDdg6z3CvzDHrpGY_Yz

As anyone can tell by the data, our wildlife funding, and corresponding wildlife inventories, are not adequate. This starts with funding, and we need all of our hunting license fees etc put back into wildlife. Is it wrong to speculate that wildlife management is a little apprehensive about releasing the LEHs until they have a solid idea about winter ungulate survival just because they really don't have a really solid idea of the numbers due to lack of funding?

[tinhorse]

That's awesome to see we have 10-20 moose on the island. Maybe one day we will be like Newfoundland and have a massive population....haha. (sarcastic)

[j270wsm]

The numbers for elk and moose in the kootenays seems very high in that aireal survey.

[HappyJack]

One good reason for a draw in June is time to assess game populations after the winter.

Anyone expecting a draw earlier than this is not considering the wildlife.

Seriously? Do you really think they assess game populations in the spring?? Makes me wonder why it was hunters that had to ring the alarm on plummeting moose populations around PG then.

[high horse Hal]

The numbers for elk and moose in the kootenays seems very high in that aireal survey.with a near 100% error factor
Regions are huge, stats by MU might be more tangible

[Darksith]

Seriously? Do you really think they assess game populations in the spring?? Makes me wonder why it was hunters that had to ring the alarm on plummeting moose populations around PG then.

Don't they have to interpret the data they get in the winter though? The system is under staffed, under funded and the resource is expected to thrive simply bc. BC has ridden the coat tails of an abundance of game for a long time, but now that time has passed, yet the government isn't doing anything about it. Im less worried about when I get to put in or find out about LEH results and more concerned that the resource is being mismanaged. Boost the resource so that everything can go back to GOS and then you don't even have to worry about the draw for most species...thats really what you guys should be focused on.

[Livewire322]

Don't they have to interpret the data they get in the winter though? The system is under staffed, under funded and the resource is expected to thrive simply bc. BC has ridden the coat tails of an abundance of game for a long time, but now that time has passed, yet the government isn't doing anything about it. Im less worried about when I get to put in or find out about LEH results and more concerned that the resource is being mismanaged. Boost the resource so that everything can go back to GOS and then you don't even have to worry about the draw for most species...thats really what you guys should be focused on.


It’s entirely reasonable for us to expect that the folks (mis)managing wildlife address more than one issue at a time.

[MRP]

IMO it’s never be proactive always been a late reaction or no reaction. The cow calf moose slaughter went on for years then all of a sudden the lightbulb came on and they close those seasons. I always said no farmer in the world builds up his herd by killing the calves and the cows that make them. I sure wish I had a copy of the radio broadcast on CKPG when the biologist said we have a calf season because half of them don’t make the winter anyhow. One of the most moronic statements I ever heard. By the way the second most moronic statement I heard was when a biologist said there’s no grizzly bears in Eskers provincial park (20 +kms outside of Prince George) because it’s too close to the city for the Grizzly Bears to live there. I guess the grizzly bears I’ve seen inside the city limits didn’t get the memo.
Then the winter of 2006 or 2007 there was a massive winter kill of deer and moose around Prince George and the lot in the peace region too due to heavy snow conditions. The winter killer was widely reported by people working in the bush and those on snowmobiles. Everyone thought for sure there would be a cut back on the LEH and maybe even a closer or change to the open season in the peace country, but nothing happened no changes till years later.

[dapesche]

Seriously? Do you really think they assess game populations in the spring?? Makes me wonder why it was hunters that had to ring the alarm on plummeting moose populations around PG then.

I know for a fact that elk survey flights were conducted in early march. as part of their elk mgt plan.
Hopefully this all gets wrapped up asap though. They are doing the work but they are also severley understaffed.

[dapesche]

It’s entirely reasonable for us to expect that the folks (mis)managing wildlife address more than one issue at a time.


The 'mismanagement' statement always pisses me off.
Yes, mgt plans can be poor. Totally agree.

But hunters are the ones that go up there and shoot the spikes and the cows. They don't force us to do that!

To anyone that applied for a cow LEH in the Kootenays, or took a spike in the East kootenays, or a Cow moose around revy or a cow elk around Ft st. john, you are the ones carrying out poor mgt discussions.

A bunch of old farts in the West Koots are now posturing to get Elk back on LEH cause the lazy buggers can't kill a bull in the first they drive their truck or quad into.

shit like this pisses me off. Give your head a shake if you are complaining about elk/moose/deer numbers now but you were happy to hammer the breeding stock over the last decade all because of poor mgt planning by our ministry.

[Livewire322]

The 'mismanagement' statement always pisses me off.
Yes, mgt plans can be poor. Totally agree.

But hunters are the ones that go up there and shoot the spikes and the cows. They don't force us to do that!

To anyone that applied for a cow LEH in the Kootenays, or took a spike in the East kootenays, or a Cow moose around revy or a cow elk around Ft st. john, you are the ones carrying out poor mgt discussions.

A bunch of old farts in the West Koots are now posturing to get Elk back on LEH cause the lazy buggers can't kill a bull in the first they drive their truck or quad into.

shit like this pisses me off. Give your head a shake if you are complaining about elk/moose/deer numbers now but you were happy to hammer the breeding stock over the last decade all because of poor mgt planning by our ministry.


Yours seems like misplaced anger to me. The folks who gripe about declining populations while also happily shooting sub-mature bucks or cow/calf elk or moose are hypocrites, and entitled ones at that, but the real problem lies with those that allow it to continue so they can win a popularity contest and earn a fat pension (politicians and bureaucrats).

For the trigger happy hunters’ part, its hypocrisy, for the politicians’, it’s either misfeasance, or nonfeasance, depending on the level of action.

[j270wsm]

The 'mismanagement' statement always pisses me off.
Yes, mgt plans can be poor. Totally agree.

But hunters are the ones that go up there and shoot the spikes and the cows. They don't force us to do that!

To anyone that applied for a cow LEH in the Kootenays, or took a spike in the East kootenays, or a Cow moose around revy or a cow elk around Ft st. john, you are the ones carrying out poor mgt discussions.

A bunch of old farts in the West Koots are now posturing to get Elk back on LEH cause the lazy buggers can't kill a bull in the first they drive their truck or quad into.

shit like this pisses me off. Give your head a shake if you are complaining about elk/moose/deer numbers now but you were happy to hammer the breeding stock over the last decade all because of poor mgt planning by our ministry.

Every state that has a hunt able elk population allows the harvest of cows and any bull during their archery season and leh rifle seasons, yet they have thriving elk populations. So can you explain why harvesting a small % of cows and spike bulls hurt our elk populations in Bc?

also, do you have any data on how many spikes, cows were killed by hunters compared to the calf recruitment numbers?

[Dour]

This site has all the dates from previous years. Last year was super late I’m guessing this year will be also

https://bcfirearmsacademy.ca/when-are-the-limited-entry-hunting-leh-draws-coming-out/

[Opinionated Ol Phart]

Nailed it Imdone

[Wentrot]

The 'mismanagement' statement always pisses me off.
Yes, mgt plans can be poor. Totally agree.

But hunters are the ones that go up there and shoot the spikes and the cows. They don't force us to do that!

To anyone that applied for a cow LEH in the Kootenays, or took a spike in the East kootenays, or a Cow moose around revy or a cow elk around Ft st. john, you are the ones carrying out poor mgt discussions.

A bunch of old farts in the West Koots are now posturing to get Elk back on LEH cause the lazy buggers can't kill a bull in the first they drive their truck or quad into.

shit like this pisses me off. Give your head a shake if you are complaining about elk/moose/deer numbers now but you were happy to hammer the breeding stock over the last decade all because of poor mgt planning by our ministry.


Your ignorance is amazing. Did you read that on Facebook?

[dapesche]

Your ignorance is amazing. Did you read that on Facebook?

please, point out the ignorance.

[Treed]

Cow mortality definitely has an impact on populations. Calf mortality has a much smaller effect, especially the small numbers taken by hunters. That’s because calf mortality rates are typically high, particularly over winter.

[j270wsm]

Is calf mortality high due to preds or just due to winter related weather/lack of feed/stress? Is there any data that breaks this down?

The reason I ask is because I don’t know the answer but also that you could argue that harvesting an age class that’s susceptible to high mortality could make the situation worse. With that said, I guess you could argue that it could help more calves survive winter.

[Timberjack]

That's awesome to see we have 10-20 moose on the island. Maybe one day we will be like Newfoundland and have a massive population....haha. (sarcastic)

Island Region... which includes a portion of the mainland central coast.

[Darksith]

Every state that has a hunt able elk population allows the harvest of cows and any bull during their archery season and leh rifle seasons, yet they have thriving elk populations. So can you explain why harvesting a small % of cows and spike bulls hurt our elk populations in Bc?

also, do you have any data on how many spikes, cows were killed by hunters compared to the calf recruitment numbers?

Just to play devils advocate here, most US states don't have the same number of predators we do, and they probably have way more agricultural land (available food sources) than BC.

Every jurisdiction has different obstacles to contend with, but the common denominator here is the gross lack of funding in BC. Under funded, under staffed (which relates to lack of funding). That is the main problem in BC. You restore habitat, monitor populations, manage predators you will have a healthier population of game species which will in turn give hunters more opportunity. Hunters are not the reason for population declines, lack of awareness of population health is the real issue and its just a late reaction to a problem that has been ongoing and building for many years prior.

[Treed]

Is calf mortality high due to preds or just due to winter related weather/lack of feed/stress? Is there any data that breaks this down?

The reason I ask is because I don’t know the answer but also that you could argue that harvesting an age class that’s susceptible to high mortality could make the situation worse. With that said, I guess you could argue that it could help more calves survive winter.

If say, for instance, calf mortality rate are 50%, if you harvest a calf, there is a 50% chance it would have died anyway, so your harvesting wouldn’t have affected the population. It just drops the probability that harvesting a calf will result in effects to the population. Cow mortality rates are much lower, so taking a cow would have a higher probability of decreasing the population and also would reduce future calf production.

[high horse Hal]

Is calf mortality high due to preds or just due to winter related weather/lack of feed/stress? Is there any data that breaks this down?

The reason I ask is because I don’t know the answer but also that you could argue that harvesting an age class that’s susceptible to high mortality could make the situation worse. With that said, I guess you could argue that it could help more calves survive winter. Completed 5 yr study
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/wildlife/wildlife-conservation/moose/moose-conservation/moose-research

[j270wsm]

So even after hunters harvested a bunch of calves, predation was 69% of calf mortality. Sounds like there is/was a need to kill a bunch of wolves from a helicopter.

[wideopenthrottle]

was it here or another site where it was suggested that collared cows had a better chance of survival....collar em all in some areas heheheh

[MRP]

If say, for instance, calf mortality rate are 50%, if you harvest a calf, there is a 50% chance it would have died anyway, so your harvesting wouldn’t have affected the population. It just drops the probability that harvesting a calf will result in effects to the population. Cow mortality rates are much lower, so taking a cow would have a higher probability of decreasing the population and also would reduce future calf production.
You are right taking one calf makes no difference but when it was open season on calf’s and a hundred or more are taken now it makes a difference.

[RyoTHC]

Maybe this week they will collect our money.

[browningboy]

Crazy, May 1st and nothing... Never seen it come out so late before?

[bud-aboom]

last year it was later then this.

[Dour]

Last year was may 24. This site has all the dates from the past when it was available.

https://bcfirearmsacademy.ca/when-are-the-limited-entry-hunting-leh-draws-coming-out/

[tyyota]

This is now the longest* we've waited for the LEH to be released. *With the lone exception from 2022, when they had to rewrite the whole regulation due to changes in 7b. The latest it had ever been released was April 22, 2020 (COVID).

[eatram]

I identify as having a rosie tag.

[Jereky]

Relax everyone, making un-scientific, sweeping, social licence driven changes takes time!

[RyoTHC]

I identify as having a rosie tag.


Me as well, what zone and date for our hunt? I’ll bring the freeze dried meals lol

[high horse Hal]

This is now the longest* we've waited for the LEH to be released. *With the lone exception from 2022, when they had to rewrite the whole regulation due to changes in 7b. The latest it had ever been released was April 22, 2020 (COVID).
Its coming down the pipe but its a slow and lumpy ride when the water is low

[Darksith]

This is now the longest* we've waited for the LEH to be released. *With the lone exception from 2022, when they had to rewrite the whole regulation due to changes in 7b. The latest it had ever been released was April 22, 2020 (COVID).

you mean last year? lol.

Its sad though that the ministry needs to put on their answering machine that the LEH has not been released yet and to wait. I wonder how many calls a day they get from people asking when the LEH is going to be out, or when the LEH is going to be run...immediate gratification is demanded these days. So silly

[Retiredguy]

I wonder if it is a repeat of last year and they have a whole bunch of stuff to rewrite....more surprises in store for us? Nah, I probably am just being negative!

[elch jager]

Lots of re-writes going on. No-one here will be happy.

Much less available this year. Busy overwriting the science with emotion.

They will eventually close it all down.

Thou shall eat bugs...

[RainyLaker]

Just checked to see if the LEH synopsis was posted yet. Here's the update.

The 2023/24 LEH synopsis will be available on or before the opening date for 2023 Fall LEH applications.

[vincentcui]

Just checked to see if the LEH synopsis was posted yet. Here's the update.

The 2023/24 LEH synopsis will be available on or before the opening date for 2023 Fall LEH applications.

This statement was posted on the website since early April.

[Redthies]

Just checked to see if the LEH synopsis was posted yet. Here's the update.

The 2023/24 LEH synopsis will be available on or before the opening date for 2023 Fall LEH applications.

It would be pretty hard to apply if you don’t know what you’re applying for! Typical government double talk.

[RainyLaker]

It would be pretty hard to apply if you don’t know what you’re applying for! Typical government double talk.

Pretty funny even for the government

[RyoTHC]

Yawn. I want to donate and they won’t let me.
hurry up and take my money government. Usually you trip over yourself too!

[RainyLaker]

One of the EatWild guys said on Monday that it should be out next week. I guess they know the people working on the file. No other info though on changes.