Peace river seasons.. with treaty 8 getting settled a payout and a land transfer

[walks with deer]

Treaty 8 made a deal for 800,000,000 and 454square km of land they should need to restrict the moose and caribou season in 7b right i am sure those negotioating took this into account.

[RyoTHC]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 1 Sq km at the beginning of 454 different FSRs, just enough for gates and fences.
I almost moved up to the Dawson area… thank god I didn’t.

[kevingm1987]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s 1 Sq km at the beginning of 454 different FSRs, just enough for gates and fences.
I almost moved up to the Dawson area… thank god I didn’t.

This wasn't drawn up over night, I don't understand why I cant find the map anywhere...

[eatram]

This wasn't drawn up over night, I don't understand why I cant find the map anywhere...

Ive spent a lot of time trying to find a map as well. This seems to be well hidden info

[dakoda62]

Ive spent a lot of time trying to find a map as well. This seems to be well hidden info

Only find the map when the blockades go up.

[walks with deer]

Ya i was searching for the map aswell... remember the season adjustments where supposed to only be for 1 year.

[Sitkaspruce]

Google Peace TLE (Treaty Land Entitlement) maps to see them. Here's a couple

West Moberly - https://prrd.bc.ca/board/agendas/2019/2019-23-124544505/pages/documents/06-D-1MIRR_WMFNTLE_July25.pdf
Halfway - https://prrd.bc.ca/board/agendas/2018/2018-38-359774792/pages/documents/08-C-05HRFN_001.pdf

Go to the bottom of this page for the maps. Keep in mind that they are the selected areas and there was some push back for a few parcels, mainly around the towns of FSJ, HH and Chetwynd, so things might have changed.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/govtogetherbc/engagement/land-transfers-in-northeast-bc/

I brought this issue forward a few different times.

Post 154 of this topic - http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?168786-Peace-Region-Moose-and-Northern-Cariboo&p=2328561#post2328561

It is not a good place for hunting and fishing in NEBC. Time will tell if I will be hunting and for what species......

Cheers

SS

[TeeVee]

Glad we can just give away another 800 million. Where is this money going really??

[savage10]

Glad we can just give away another 800 million. Where is this money going really??

Imagine how many addiction treatment/mental health facilities could have been opened with 800 million.

[TheObserver]

It is not a good place for hunting and fishing in NEBC. Time will tell if I will be hunting and for what species......

Cheers

SS

F**kin sh!tty, I was going to move to the Peace probably sometime next year, still might idk. This is probably going to catch up everywhere in Canada and the States too even eventually.

There are going to be a lot of guys who will not abide with this garbage if push comes to shove and they start trying to ban Hunting and or land usage.

[HarryToolips]

F**kin sh!tty, I was going to move to the Peace probably sometime next year, still might idk. This is probably going to catch up everywhere in Canada and the States too even eventually.

There are going to be a lot of guys who will not abide with this garbage if push comes to shove and they start trying to ban Hunting and or land usage.

Yup we all need to abide by the hunting regs, which is the ethical thing to do but, when they have gone too far on restrictions, especially when it only pertains to non-FNs, we all need to join together and not comply..

[walks with deer]

A true harvester follows his moral compass which follows the bioligist allowable harvest guidlines with pride for sustainabilty and sharred oppurtunity.
You throw science out the window and a lack of enforcement while degrading habitat..and there will be as much game as the dirty thirtys..fur shoot..the game shouldnt and cant afford a mass non compliance we need habitat rehab and moral boundaries maintained.
I feel like oppurtunity has been like a noose on my neck getting tighter every year.my vote is we make a group comprised of natives resident hunters goabc and bioligists and try to put more game on the land.

Most states and alberta have way more game per km as they value it and habitat and pred control are critical.

[TheObserver]

Yup we all need to abide by the hunting regs, which is the ethical thing to do but, when they have gone too far on restrictions, especially when it only pertains to non-FNs, we all need to join together and not comply..

100% with you Harry, there is no way anybody is pushing me out of Hunting. The elites, the gov, indians, my own family couldn't stop me this is my passion.

We'll see how things pan out here in the coming years

[TheObserver]

Most states and alberta have way more game per km as they value it and habitat and pred control are critical.


Never hunted out of province, but I hear the grass is way greener in other provinces and states that do this with consideration for the Game

[whognu]

A true harvester follows his moral compass which follows the bioligist allowable harvest guidlines with pride for sustainabilty and sharred oppurtunity.
You throw science out the window and a lack of enforcement while degrading habitat..and there will be as much game as the dirty thirtys..fur shoot..the game shouldnt and cant afford a mass non compliance we need habitat rehab and moral boundaries maintained.
I feel like oppurtunity has been like a noose on my neck getting tighter every year.my vote is we make a group comprised of natives resident hunters goabc and bioligists and try to put more game on the land.

Most states and alberta have way more game per km as they value it and habitat and pred control are critical.

agree 200%

and imo the ONLY way we (non fn) are invited to the party is with an association WITH fn

as much as it pains me to say, the fact is we will need them to 'invite us along' to this land / game sharing

without this, the govt will defer to them alone

yet, i have hunted with and met several fn men and all were in agreement that it should be a shared opportunity

i suspect that the majority of fn think this way, yet it is the noisy fringe that carry the headlines

we need many fn leaders to stand up and decide that it will do no one any good in the short term or long term to have 5% of the population holding up the access rights for the 95%

we'll have to see how much civil unrest must happen before this happens

and no matter what we think 'should be' that fact remains is that the fn are the ones in charge

i'm ready for whatever comes, and as usual believe it WILL get worked out (in time)

good luck to us all!

[TheObserver]

agree 200%

and imo the ONLY way we (non fn) are invited to the party is with an association WITH fn

as much as it pains me to say, the fact is we will need them to 'invite us along' to this land / game sharing

without this, the govt will defer to them alone

yet, i have hunted with and met several fn men and all were in agreement that it should be a shared opportunity

i suspect that the majority of fn think this way, yet it is the noisy fringe that carry the headlines

we need many fn leaders to stand up and decide that it will do no one any good in the short term or long term to have 5% of the population holding up the access rights for the 95%

we'll have to see how much civil unrest must happen before this happens

and no matter what we think 'should be' that fact remains is that the fn are the ones in charge

i'm ready for whatever comes, and as usual believe it WILL get worked out (in time)

good luck to us all!

I agree with many points you've said here. But I can't disagree more on "the fact remains is that the fn are the ones in charge" they have been held down by the same people screwing us since the beginning and they are being played big time too, it just may not be apparent yet to some. Their being used as pawns to consolidate larger agendas this is blatant communism like how huge swaths of land are being handed over for rescource and material extraction, I mean who do we really think is in control of that lol. The states aim is utter centralization and control of everything and everyone. The indians are being used to as a means to acheive those ends in a rather clever way covered in deception and lies. I mean after all UNDRIP is UN......

Anyways enough of the rant I have been trying to just stay on Hunting topics the last two months on this site and going forward but this threat to it can not be ignored.

As for being ready for whatever comes likewise and I hope you are right on things being worked out.

All the best to you too!

[TheObserver]

A true harvester follows his moral compass which follows the bioligist allowable harvest guidlines with pride for sustainabilty and sharred oppurtunity.
You throw science out the window and a lack of enforcement while degrading habitat..and there will be as much game as the dirty thirtys..fur shoot..the game shouldnt and cant afford a mass non compliance we need habitat rehab and moral boundaries maintained.
I feel like oppurtunity has been like a noose on my neck getting tighter every year.my vote is we make a group comprised of natives resident hunters goabc and bioligists and try to put more game on the land.

Most states and alberta have way more game per km as they value it and habitat and pred control are critical.

I dont think me and Harry are talking about a wild west but if they try and shut me out completely and indians can still hunt. Then I will follow 2020 regulations I would never take more than I need and hope and pray it doesn't ever come to that, but I am not letting some scum elites, politicians and indians tell me I can't hunt f**kin f********ck that!

Especially when I am paying into this socialist bs with my hard earned money.

[huntcoop]

Just start self identifying, if the LGBQRST can do it so can we.

[walks with deer]

I agree with many points you've said here. But I can't disagree more on "the fact remains is that the fn are the ones in charge" they have been held down by the same people screwing us since the beginning and they are being played big time too, it just may not be apparent yet to some. Their being used as pawns to consolidate larger agendas this is blatant communism like how huge swaths of land are being handed over for rescource and material extraction, I mean who do we really think is in control of that lol. The states aim is utter centralization and control of everything and everyone. The indians are being used to as a means to acheive those ends in a rather clever way covered in deception and lies. I mean after all UNDRIP is UN......

Anyways enough of the rant I have been trying to just stay on Hunting topics the last two months on this site and going forward but this threat to it can not be ignored.

As for being ready for whatever comes likewise and I hope you are right on things being worked out.

All the best to you too!

I would agree with you but we need to tackle are harvest issue as a minimum i agree there is more in motion.

[walks with deer]

Meaning no matter what we have to focis on more animals on the land.

[BowHunterCR]

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/govtogetherbc/engagement/land-transfers-in-northeast-bc/#Site-C

Scroll Down to Final Selection Section, maps and KML's are available

[TheObserver]

Meaning no matter what we have to focis on more animals on the land.

100% and I know for most of us it is extremely sickening and sad what has happened to Wildlife in certain parts of the province. Obviously from compounding factors, illegal harvest, out of hand predation, habitat destruction, careless/stupid drivers and the list goes on.

One would hope that a positive outcome resulting from this would be actual real enforcement on indians as far as poaching charges go, be it enforced by bands or a combo of bands and c.o.'s/rcmp. But I don't see why anything will change in regards to that.

I know some bands are harsh on offenders if caught and that is good no doubt, but a lot of them just do horrendous things and get away scott free, especially if it is off their reserve lands. Can hardly manage wildlife when a whole group of people can do things their not supposed to with what seems like complete impunity, and when the province expects one group of people to report certain hunts and submit compulsory inspections but one group doesn't is a complete joke for overall statistics and resulting best decisions and outcomes. I know a lot of indians don't engage in unethical immoral hunting practices I know some, but we all know a lot do and take advantage of the fact the cases get thrown out if they even materialize.

On the other hand when we have things being talked about like little to no red meat being consumed by the commoner it almost makes me think sometimes they are managing Wildlife numbers low on purpose, especially after the last 3 years nothing surprises me and I don't trust government at all or many organizations.

But we'll see where things go in the future, will be interesting for sure either way if things get better or worse, let's hope for better. Even if we have to go through more worse first.

[HappyJack]

More animals are killed by trains than hunters and poachers combined, perhaps we should be refocusing our attention to a real problem.

Add wolves, bears, coyotes and cats eating ungulates and not reporting their kills, and to the natives that don't report makes me think harvest stats aren't really that important to wildlife management. Sure you can get some interesting stats but not really indicative of how much game is dying every year.

Access may be an issue, some people are pushing digging up roads and putting in gates, if game is being hit too hard why not just close hunting in those areas, no need to take out a road used by berry pickers is there?

[bcsteve]

More animals are killed by trains than hunters and poachers combined, perhaps we should be refocusing our attention to a real problem.


I'd like to see those stats. Seems pretty high to me but I honestly don't know.

[TheObserver]

I'd like to see those stats. Seems pretty high to me but I honestly don't know.

It is high, highways are bad too. I have been hunting since I was 10, 29 now. We have never hit an animal, not once.

Too many idiots on the roads these days and foreigners that don't even know these animals are out there and could come onto the road.

Two weeks ago I seen 6 carcasses on the road, more like 9 dead by the additional stains on the pavement, just brutal. It shouldn't be okay you hit an animal pay your deductible. Should be mandatory course and a fine if excessive speed was found a factor or any intoxication, idk maybe there is but I haven't heard of it.

The positive otherside to this is I seen over half a thousand Deer in 4 days combined with from the road, pounding ground and hard glassing/observing

[HappyJack]

I'd like to see those stats. Seems pretty high to me but I honestly don't know.


Between 2007 and 2012, there were 454 to 501 moose kills on the stretch of rail between Endako and Smithers known as the Telkwa Subdivision, Mr. Snetsinger said in his report – suggesting a forgone value to the province of an estimated $500,000 in hunting and associated revenues.

[huntcoop]

Between 2007 and 2012, there were 454 to 501 moose kills on the stretch of rail between Endako and Smithers known as the Telkwa Subdivision, Mr. Snetsinger said in his report – suggesting a forgone value to the province of an estimated $500,000 in hunting and associated revenues.

Love to know how many the indians take each year without tags or LEH, sadly we'll never know as the government doesn't require them to report.

[TheObserver]

Love to know how many the indians take each year without tags or LEH, sadly we'll never know as the government doesn't require them to report.

That I would pay to see in an accurate figure.

[jamfarm]

More animals on the land sounds great but what about when there already are a sustainable amount of animals on the land, 7b in particular?

From what I read the moose harvest up there was totally sustainable but it still got shut down after the Yahey court case. I see the same backwards logic regarding fishing in the LM, there's salmon out there now that are not the stocks of concern or even salmon that aren't going up the Fraser (US fish) yet we still can't fish them. The studies and the science are there supporting these harvests and yet the government chooses to ignore the science or are relying on junk science from environmental groups.

Go out fishing now or shoot a bull moose according to the earlier regulations and you'd get hammered.

[Downwindtracker2]

I'm no lawyer, but Treaty 8 was agreed to back then but ignored , so they get the courts involved . Now we have to settle. Better the money than the land .

When I moved up there in the late'70s, moose was from August 15 to December 15 with a break for breeding. Now, it's LEH. I'm afraid it's moose and potatoes without the moose.

[BCHunterTV]

curious if theylll allow Manitoba Metis members living in BC permission? theyre currently signing treaty

[TheObserver]

More animals on the land sounds great but what about when there already are a sustainable amount of animals on the land, 7b in particular?

From what I read the moose harvest up there was totally sustainable but it still got shut down after the Yahey court case. I see the same backwards logic regarding fishing in the LM, there's salmon out there now that are not the stocks of concern or even salmon that aren't going up the Fraser (US fish) yet we still can't fish them. The studies and the science are there supporting these harvests and yet the government chooses to ignore the science or are relying on junk science from environmental groups.

Go out fishing now or shoot a bull moose according to the earlier regulations and you'd get hammered.

Yeah even where animal populations are good they will do this, because they don't want Hunting to be a thing or firearm ownership.

The way I see it is the Peace would have the biggest resistance, they are pilot testing this there and if they can get away with it there. They probably think the rest of the province is going to be taking candy from a baby.

[HarryToolips]

100% with you Harry, there is no way anybody is pushing me out of Hunting. The elites, the gov, indians, my own family couldn't stop me this is my passion.

We'll see how things pan out here in the coming years

Indeed.......

[HappyJack]

Love to know how many the indians take each year without tags or LEH, sadly we'll never know as the government doesn't require them to report.

I don't understand the fixation on how many animals the indians take each year??? Lets look at it a bit, how many FNs do you think hunt? BC sells about 100,000 moose tags per year so we have an idea how many non FNs are looking for a moose and only know how many were successful if they honestly answer the harvest survey. I googled this:

Today, there are approximately 200,000 Indigenous people in British Columbia. They include First Nations, Inuit and Métis.
itish Columbia was home to 155,020 First Nations people, 69,470 Métis, and 1,570 Inuit, with the rest reporting other Aboriginal identities


So extrapolating a little, there are about 130,000 FNs in British Columbia. [The population of British Columbia (B.C.) was estimated at 5,399,118 as of January 1, 2023,] How many out of that 130,00 do you think actually hunt, shooting multiple animals every year, year round and in the dark?

10% would be 13,000 FNs hunters, 5% would be 6,500 hunters.

BC has about 8500 wolves, 15,000 grizzly bears, 120,000 -150,000 black bears, and 4000 cougars. [175,000 total est]

It's hard to figure this out, FNs, wolves, grizz, black bears and cougars all don't report their kills so I don't understand how our government biologists can manage wildlife without accurate harvest figures. Between them all that is like 200,000 people and predators that refuse to report, twice as many as legal licensed hunters.

Do you really think FNs reporting how many they kill would make a lick of difference in wildlife management, or is it just getting under your skin because you think they are special??

[HappyJack]

curious if theylll allow Manitoba Metis members living in BC permission? theyre currently signing treaty

I don't see why not, anything else would be discriminatory. There is a Metis community living at Kelly Lake is there not?? Aren't the Saulteaux at Moberly Lake originally from out of Province?? They are giving them land and hunting rights in BC, so why would be Metis be excluded when they have settlements established in BC??

Some Crees and Saulteaux (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saulteaux) arrived in the area in the late nineteenth century, fleeing the North-West Rebellion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North-West_Rebellion) of 1885.[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Moberly_First_Nations#cite_note-:4-19)
In 1914, the Nation was admitted to Treaty 8 as part of the Hudson Hope Band, referred to in the 1914-1915 Indian Affairs Annual Report as "Hudson’s Hope (Beaver) 116". The West Moberly Reserve 168A was established at the same time, the same size as it is today. They had not been admitted to the treaty earlier (as other nearby nations had) because the day the Treaty Commission arrived in 1899 "conflicted with the annual hunt."[19] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Moberly_First_Nations#cite_note-:4-19) The Chief at the time was Chief Dokkie.[20] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Moberly_First_Nations#cite_note-20)

[huntcoop]

I don't understand the fixation on how many animals the indians take each year???................ Do you really think FNs reporting how many they kill would make a lick of difference in wildlife management, or is it just getting under your skin because you think they are special??

Let me ask you this, why can't they report?

[high horse Hal]

Just start self identifying, if the LGBQRST can do it so can we.Add a camo stripe to the rainbow crosswalk ? )

[high horse Hal]

............I don't understand the fixation on how many animals the indians take each year???..........
Dead-side data, only used to divide and segregate hunters
Enhancement is only the product of knowing habitat potential and carrying capacity factored with the number of live critters

All goes out the window if decisions are made over whether a indigen can drive out and whack an animal within traditional limits and efforts, as soon as it gets too tough roadblocks will go up.

[HappyJack]

Let me ask you this, why can't they report?

Why ? the numbers are useless for wildlife management? FNs kills are no different than predator kills the govt has no idea what the numbers would be. Doing actual in the field population counts, and studies on migration is what they should be doing, along with predator management/culls.

[j270wsm]

[QUOTE=HappyJack;2398807]Why ? the numbers are useless for wildlife management? FNs kills are no different than predator kills the govt has no idea what the numbers would be. Doing actual in the field population counts, and studies on migration is what they should be doing, along with predator management/culls.[/QUOTE

you are correct, native harvest numbers are the same as the number of pred kills…….they are an estimated guess.

If the natives provided their harvest numbers it could be used to help determine the total number of hunting related harvest, which could help determine if ungulate numbers are dropping too fast for calf recruitment before it’s too late and major changes/closures are required to fix the issue. IMHO, Aerial surveys of ungulates/pred culls should be done annually throughout the province. After all, having the most info possible would give us the best chance to make positive changes to our wild life management plan.

[huntcoop]

Why ? the numbers are useless for wildlife management? FNs kills are no different than predator kills the govt has no idea what the numbers would be. Doing actual in the field population counts, and studies on migration is what they should be doing, along with predator management/culls.

So, why do I have to report my killing of a moose?

[HappyJack]

So, why do I have to report my killing of a moose?

Because they require us to report, same as we are required to buy tags and licenses. And it does give them some idea of how many of us are successful, and in which region, presuming of course that we don't lie on the surveys.

[JAGRMEISTER]

this is merely a settlement of what was promised under the original treaty 8!
the lawyers will take most of that cash settlement and you can bet your fat A$$, they are not indigenous!

[HappyJack]

[QUOTE=HappyJack;2398807]Why ? the numbers are useless for wildlife management? FNs kills are no different than predator kills the govt has no idea what the numbers would be. Doing actual in the field population counts, and studies on migration is what they should be doing, along with predator management/culls.[/QUOTE

you are correct, native harvest numbers are the same as the number of pred kills…….they are an estimated guess.

If the natives provided their harvest numbers it could be used to help determine the total number of hunting related harvest, which could help determine if ungulate numbers are dropping too fast for calf recruitment before it’s too late and major changes/closures are required to fix the issue. IMHO, Aerial surveys of ungulates/pred culls should be done annually throughout the province. After all, having the most info possible would give us the best chance to make positive changes to our wild life management plan.

Correct, the powers that be should be managing based on actual wildlife densities rather than managing hunters.

[huntcoop]

Because they require us to report, same as we are required to buy tags and licenses. And it does give them some idea of how many of us are successful, and in which region, presuming of course that we don't lie on the surveys.

:lol: which is why the indians should post harvest numbers and lord forbid buy tags and licenses.

[HappyJack]

:lol: which is why the indians should post harvest numbers and lord forbid buy tags and licenses.

Won't ever happen unless it's voluntary. If you think about it, when we tell the govt that 50% of us were successful on moose hunts, they would cut back the seasons or add another stupid rule until they dropped our success rates to something they deemed ok, like 20% success. IF the FNs were stupid enough to tell them that they took 500 moose, the govt would cite conservation and try to impose a 250 moose limit on them, tell me they wouldn't. It's how they operate, they get off on exercising their perceived authority over us.

[high horse Hal]

No true management decisions can be made from the poor info gleaned from a sample hunter questionnaire like we currently fill out
Its random and a no where near accurate enough to bet on for anything
the questionnaire is good for building indicators, hunter/days spent, effort/success, mu of success etc
what good is the info from 10%? 20%? of hunters when it may not be accurate to begin
If everyone filled out the survey with 0 success and 100 days effort, nothing would change
As is, the questionnaire is almost pointless

but thats another topic......