Southern moose..

[ratherbefishin]

Way back you didn’t need to go way north for a moose, cache creek or the penticton area was as far as you needed to go…we still find sheds and see moose in those areas but the chances of a draw are like winning the lottery..not sure on GOS for immatures anymore .Saw a good bull near penticton last year so they’re around but not in huntable numbers

[Bullreaper]

Way back you didn’t need to go way north for a moose, cache creek or the penticton area was as far as you needed to go…we still find sheds and see moose in those areas but the chances of a draw are like winning the lottery..not sure on GOS for immatures anymore .Saw a good bull near penticton last year so they’re around but not in huntable numbers

I’m on year 23 applying for moose LEH in southern B.C., tried a few years in 8-15 when I was younger and the last 13 years in 4-23. Still haven’t drawn a tag. I’ve managed to wack a couple immatures in the kootenays and a big bull up North, But that southern B.C. leh tag still evades me. Hopefully this year. Lol. A couple of my buddies have drawn and been successful in 4-23 the last couple years. There is lots of moose here, see them all the time, but I don’t think there is enough for a GOS.

[justachip]

We will never see GOS again once they are gone they are gone.

[HappyJack]

We will never see GOS again once they are gone they are gone.

I believe that, just like the 2 mule deer per season rule.

There are less hunters these days than there used to be, and still they keep piling on the restrictions, I think they have anti hunters running the show. AND there is no way we should have to apply for 10 years or more to get a draw it's just wrong especially when the guides are getting big bull tags in the same areas.

[mike31154]

I've come a across a few in the north Okanagan over the years, mostly mature bulls. One year while sitting in a tree stand deer hunting, a cow, calf & spiker came out of the timber to feed at the edge of the lake. Moose season didn't start for another week & even if it was on I was solo so wouldn't have tried for him. No way I would have gotten him outta there on my own.

Zoomed photo of the trio. The tree stand is about 160-180 yds upstream from where they are.
https://dsm01pap008files.storage.live.com/y4mtdvw4LBONxCYYwUddHsdDZa9Rm1I0rbbL6xL2jxQQ4TUAqV oh6z1oeKCri-iEBFyFugXjG0S2RcyrL2E4OVbp_V_8zoiE-PrMf6sGa_fn6piUsE4Ehk1pocLlHfY6JYuV-ZpPBqvkGdBKBC7sHvzgLJwh6iLOa0AhWiPCZ2mWWUO0vm43doe YdBpdbEU1AFN?width=768&height=1024&cropmode=none

I managed to get a half decent photo of the spiker holding my phone camera to the spotting scope eyepiece.
https://dm1files.storage.live.com/y4mxHhkmACfzwPd8sTQLuXqDz0owIARfOckl72FwiHvCDcdGr7 kCPI25XP0xPBbm6rm1JcAcfRE78PlsutrvCNNjKCA4AyOmFA7M RZW4K-cjMHSzzT8LTs4pAWulib8VifkGZls8GCbg24dSq7oStqGd-jJrbxFRMsNafluQpHj_1RAx1-Bt2NIBQKX6dWEZBsN?width=1013&height=1024&cropmode=none

It was getting late, I was getting cold & had a good 1/2 hour hike through timber & snow back to the vehicle so I decided to see how close I could get to them. Probably got to within 20 yards of the cow before I decided to head into the woods for the hike back. She didn't seem too concerned even though I wasn't exactly quiet. The spiker had left by the time I got that close.
https://dsm01pap090files.storage.live.com/y4mEHo65oKTKnGLFdaF0rmOvG2H3s4CST9SAXlBko2yQRqCmOP Alr5dQbZn6jqzGlcTRgFznamhxhYrJrY-ABfpwWbMCpR42WgqMkz9iVj4zouDHId04DORVTJiHq_BooPu8f cwTXe6X93PG4xZxHUpYIvqRtUNHuUYy6uZLMZDORomzKqp5yxO v4N8m03J1nZ8?width=1024&height=768&cropmode=none

[mike31154]

Here's a video capture of a cow in the same lake as my previous post. She's a beauty, didn't seem too alarmed by me in the canoe but at one point she looked back towards the creek & decided it was time to get outta the pool. Amazing how they can move when they want to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydx48TUuus0

[high horse Hal]

cow moose in the southern BC regions have a pretty high mortality rate, no cows = no calves

[Bullreaper]

My buddies east Kootenay bull with a crossbow from 2 years ago. Sorry about shitty pic, haven’t figured out how to upload pics with an iPhone on this site.
http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/blob:http://www.huntingbc.ca/78782ac8-4fcb-4f95-84d8-ba5005def3cahttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/blob:http://www.huntingbc.ca/5a6e526f-8e83-46d2-9764-07d6c4029113

[Andrewh]

Region 8 last season. Nov draw

saw upwards of 15 moose over the trip…

[HarryToolips]

Region 8 last season. Nov draw

saw upwards of 15 moose over the trip…

Nice bull congrats!

[HarryToolips]

There is a 2 week spike fork GOS in reg 8 and even though it doesn't seem like much, it is possible to successfully harvest one in that season... I've seen good populations of moose in reg8 for the last 5 or more years, but due to that hunting season being so popular, combined with the fact that reg8 has the highest FSR density in the province, leads to a restrictive season.. the MOE objective is a ratio of 30 bulls:100 cows, it would be interesting to know what the current ratios are..

[ElliotMoose]

I often dream of the days my old man talks about where they would do their annual moose trip in region 3 and it was any bull. As said above I don’t think we’ll ever see that again.

Still, my family and I have had some pretty good success in region 3 and we have put down 10 bulls in the last 12 years in the same area my old man hunted in the 70’s. Four of those were spike/fork bulls so they are out there! We just started getting into trail cams over the past couple years and I’m shocked at how many moose are around. Definitely seems the population is on the upswing as all the old pine beetle blocks are finally growing over a bit and providing some cover. Unfortunately I doubt I’ll ever be able to hunt moose down here in the rut again in my lifetime though. The odds of drawing an October tag in our unit are ridiculous. We started putting in for November years ago.

[wideopenthrottle]

has a reason for that been identified ? trains? motor vehicles? poachers? ticks? beetle kill clearcuts?


cow moose in the southern BC regions have a pretty high mortality rate, no cows = no calves

[wideopenthrottle]

https://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wildlife/management-issues/docs/factsheet_provincial_moose_population_june2014.pdf #:~:text=An%20independent%20assessment%20of%20the% 20factors%20influencing%20moose,to%20this%20elevat ed%20mortality%2C%20however%2C%20were%20not%20clea r.

i did find this

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/environment/plants-animals-and-ecosystems/wildlife-wildlife-habitat/moose/2019_moose_factsheet_final_oct_28_2019.pdf

and this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH_epWSjMEo
also this vid

[ElliotMoose]

The cow survival rate isn’t the issue. It has been 85-95% survival rate for majority of the moose research project going on in the province over the past decade. The reports show that the cow survival rate indicates a healthy stable population. It is the calf recruitment/survival rate that is the main issue . Lots of literature on this study available

[high horse Hal]

Interesting how the cows in those studies had a much higher survival rate if they had a collar on

[j270wsm]

^^^^Weird how that works

[HappyJack]

The cow survival rate isn’t the issue. It has been 85-95% survival rate for majority of the moose research project going on in the province over the past decade. The reports show that the cow survival rate indicates a healthy stable population. It is the calf recruitment/survival rate that is the main issue . Lots of literature on this study available

Black bears kill a lot of calves, these days we see more black bears than moose I wonder if that has anything to do with the calf survival rates?

[ElliotMoose]

Black bears kill a lot of calves, these days we see more black bears than moose I wonder if that has anything to do with the calf survival rates?

Absolutely it does. It’s both wolves and bears. A big male black bear will kill upwards of 10 moose calves at calf drop time. They are known to follow a pregnant cow until they are ready to give birth and then they put them on the run, forcing the cow to give a premature birth essentially on the run. I will be hunting bears in my moose area hard this spring especially with the deep snow pack we are seeing this year. It’s going to be a tough spring on the moose and especially calves. 90 percent of the recorded <1yr old collared calf deaths also occur between March and May which is when the moose are at their weakest after batting through winter. Hunting bears is a great way to help out the game in your area!

[358mag]

has a reason for that been identified ? trains? motor vehicles? poachers? ticks? beetle kill clearcuts?

No shortage of 24/7/365 FN"s in Region 8 . Of course they only hunt for there traditional needs ..........................................

[hunterdon]

3rd video is interesting but not surprising to hunters in the know. Greatest collared moose mortality rate by predators. (53%) Wolves being the #1 killer. No surprise to me. Mortality by hunters is not that significant as it doesn't come close, falling at 3rd place at 16%. Even health related deaths are higher at 19%.

Now these findings are from "collared "moose. I would venture to suggest that moose mortality (all, collared or not) is much higher than 53% due to predation. That's because an unknown and I would say a significant number of calves (newborn and young) would not have been collared due to the fact that the cow tries hard to keep her newborn and young hidden as much as possible in their young lives. So, it would be next to impossible to find and collar this group. But you can be sure that just about every mortality in this age class would almost certainly have been due to predation. Here's where the death by bears is the greatest.

What increased percentage are we talking about? No one can say for sure. But I believe it is significantly more than 53%. Just my 53 years of hunting experience here.

[358mag]

My take on Region 8 moose but only in the southern section after over 45 + years of hunting them .
When it was on a LEH there's was good hunting for those that got a draw .and good moose of ## 's .
Then someone got the brainstorm to a GOS IIRC 30 day season for spike -fork bulls along with LEH for cows . At same time there opened a GOS for Whitetail Doe .
Well guess what Region 8 got very very busy and moose ## started to drop . At the same time some WMU got moonscape logged and roads everywhere .
Is there still decent ## of moose in region 8 ? Yes some WMU have decent #'s but some have got next to none .

[ElliotMoose]

3rd video is interesting but not surprising to hunters in the know. Greatest collared moose mortality rate by predators. (53%) Wolves being the #1 killer. No surprise to me. Mortality by hunters is not that significant as it doesn't come close, falling at 3rd place at 16%. Even health related deaths are higher at 19%.

Now these findings are from "collared "moose. I would venture to suggest that moose mortality (all, collared or not) is much higher than 53% due to predation. That's because an unknown and I would say a significant number of calves (newborn and young) would not have been collared due to the fact that the cow tries hard to keep her newborn and young hidden as much as possible in their young lives. So, it would be next to impossible to find and collar this group. But you can be sure that just about every mortality in this age class would almost certainly have been due to predation. Here's where the death by bears is the greatest.

What increased percentage are we talking about? No one can say for sure. But I believe it is significantly more than 53%. Just my 53 years of hunting experience here.


You are correct they do not collar or are even really able to count the newborn calves in spring. They collar them in their first winter now with a special collar that allows growth. This was just introduced over the past couple years. Calf recruitment in the study areas vary but some (Bonaparte is one) have been as low as 15-20 percent during the 10 year study… pretty tough to grow a moose population when 4/5 calves are ending up as wolf or bear scat. Some of the ranchers are trapping wolves in pretty good numbers the past few years though due to them eating up cattle and I believe that has played a huge role in the upswing I have seen in my area. Still, taking a spring bear every year will absolutely help as well!

[high horse Hal]

My take on Region 8 moose but only in the southern section after over 45 + years of hunting them .
When it was on a LEH there's was good hunting for those that got a draw .and good moose of ## 's .
Then someone got the brainstorm to a GOS IIRC 30 day season for spike -fork bulls along with LEH for cows . At same time there opened a GOS for Whitetail Doe .
Well guess what Region 8 got very very busy and moose ## started to drop . At the same time some WMU got moonscape logged and roads everywhere .
Is there still decent ## of moose in region 8 ? Yes some WMU have decent #'s but some have got next to none .Only and handful of cow tags and the success rate for spike/forkers is pretty los, again not likely hunters are the reason for any decline
as for the WT does, well those numbers will never go down overall, some places get hit harder and the critters adapt

All this hunter opportunity, makes me smile

[HappyJack]

No shortage of 24/7/365 FN"s in Region 8 . Of course they only hunt for there traditional needs ..........................................

Bullchit. The vast majority are in jail, alcoholic or drug addicted, and many are too lazy to hunt, why hunt when you get free food?

[Retiredguy]

Bullchit. The vast majority are in jail, alcoholic or drug addicted, and many are too lazy to hunt, why hunt when you get free food?

HappyJack, that is a rather broad statement that is far from helpful and unsupported, unless of course you have some magic numbers chart that I have not seen. Are there problems with alcohol and drugs? Yes. Is there a big percentage of FN's in the slammer that is disproportionately large when compared to the rest of the inmate population? Yes.

I realize that we all have negative feelings towards what we see with FN's and their hunting practices. I have lived around and dealt with FN for many years in BC, the NWT, AB and MB. The problems are the same across the board. However, what so many hunters seem to forget or have not retained in their memory bank, is the way FN's hunt. Many of the people in the various bands/tribes that do hunt, kill multiple head of game and distribute it to others in the band. I have talked to FN hunters who freely admit that during the previous year they killed 15, 20 or more moose. Same with elk in some areas, and sadly with deer, but often the deer shooting is to enter the heads in the big buck contests. In any event they kill a lot more game than you think, with fewer hunters.

I use to see the regularly do this with caribou in the NWT. Hell the government would pay to fly them into a lake on the barrens and they would shoot the hell out of the caribou at that location, filling up a twin otter, which then flew it all back to the band settlement for distribution.

There is a reason that game "managers" would like to get a real handle on how many moose are taken by FN's. There are elder's who know there are problems, but in many cases their voices are silenced for obvious reasons. Not all FN agree with how their harvest is taking place and there are a few who have managed to start gaining some headway with controlling numbers harvested, and getting some of their hunters to leave the cows alone, but not on a broad enough basis.

[bearvalley]

BC has gone thru several decades of piss poor wildlife management.
We’ve seen drastic declines in ungulates and predators were on the steady rise.
No inventory numbers on species for wildlife managers to have a clue what’s happening on the landscape and “habitat” seems to be the key word for a fix and for years some would not acknowledge predation as the problem.
Many half assed experiments have been pulled off…with limited and biased results.
Prime example, Primary Prey Reductions of moose to move out wolves in order to grow caribou.
It looked like it worked ….and then wolf reductions took place without PPR and guess what….the caribou calf recruitment has been better in that recovery area than any where PPR work was done.
We can grow moose, elk or whatever species we want but we need to get on the same page and hold government’s feet to the fire.
Some of you aren’t going to like to hear this but to do this we need alliances and right now our First Nations neighbors are the one and only partner that will get the attention of bureaucrats.
Do we want more wildlife ….or do we want to point fingers and carry on with the blame game.

[Retiredguy]

You are right....we all need to be on the same page, in order to push forward with government. Right now all you have to do is watch the news every night to see that FN's have the undivided attention of gov't and media for a variety of issues. The hard part will be to get everyone sitting down at a table, playing nice together and focusing on what is the best approach and how to force gov't to listen and dedicate the money an man power that is required.

[bearvalley]

You are right....we all need to be on the same page, in order to push forward with government. Right now all you have to do is watch the news every night to see that FN's have the undivided attention of gov't and media for a variety of issues. The hard part will be to get everyone sitting down at a table, playing nice together and focusing on what is the best approach and how to force gov't to listen and dedicate the money an man power that is required.

The NDP are using reconciliation to their advantage….to achieve their own personal or party ideals.
First Nations leaders I know have strait up said that what government is doing is not true reconciliation….the idea is not to take from one and give to another.
All that does is fuel racism and merely reverse roles on what happened in the past.
The sooner we get on one page, the better off we’ll be.
I get a laugh out of contributors on this site, constantly blaming others …be it outfitters or indigenous for our wildlife problems.
These same guys that are always pointing fingers seem to be ghosts when it comes to wildlife decision making.
Those are a few observations from this snipe hunting leftist!

[358mag]

Bullchit. The vast majority are in jail, alcoholic or drug addicted, and many are too lazy to hunt, why hunt when you get free food?


Ha Ha so very true , but there's more than a few that still practice there Traditional Right of 365/24/7 of filling there truck beds

[358mag]

BC has gone thru several decades of piss poor wildlife management.
We’ve seen drastic declines in ungulates and predators were on the steady rise.
No inventory numbers on species for wildlife managers to have a clue what’s happening on the landscape and “habitat” seems to be the key word for a fix and for years some would not acknowledge predation as the problem.
Many half assed experiments have been pulled off…with limited and biased results.
Prime example, Primary Prey Reductions of moose to move out wolves in order to grow caribou.
It looked like it worked ….and then wolf reductions took place without PPR and guess what….the caribou calf recruitment has been better in that recovery area than any where PPR work was done.
We can grow moose, elk or whatever species we want but we need to get on the same page and hold government’s feet to the fire.
Some of you aren’t going to like to hear this but to do this we need alliances and right now our First Nations neighbors are the one and only partner that will get the attention of bureaucrats.
Do we want more wildlife ….or do we want to point fingers and carry on with the blame game.

^^^^^^X's 2 ^^^^^^^^
Trouble is the the NDP signed in on UNDRIP and where screwed .

[high horse Hal]

No inventories?
Huh...

[HappyJack]

Ha Ha so very true , but there's more than a few that still practice there Traditional Right of 365/24/7 of filling there truck beds

Hell, I can do that legally. Every year I can kill a moose, an elk, a goat, a sheep, a caribou, two black bears, a cougar, and three deer. Unless the truck bed is pretty big that should fill it up. But it's unfair I cant do that year round and with my high power led lights.

[ratherbefishin]

There was a study into the decline of southern BC moose populations in the 70s that attributed it to over foraging red willow resulting in moose starving to death..not sure if that is still true…we see moose sign and occaisionaly a moose or two every hunting trip ,but without a draw to take one

[358mag]

There was a study into the decline of southern BC moose populations in the 70s that attributed it to over foraging red willow resulting in moose starving to death..not sure if that is still true…we see moose sign and occaisionaly a moose or two every hunting trip ,but without a draw to take one

First Ive ever heard about that study .
But they have been using Choppers to spray and kill all the willow - poplar etc new growth in freshly replanted log blocks . As we all know how important that food scorce is for Moose Elk + Deer .

[ratherbefishin]

I believe it was Dr James Hatter that conducted the survey,I saw a book he had written on his findings

[high horse Hal]

Paper by Ian Hatter 2018
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/329161863_Moose_population_dynamics_during_20_year s_of_declining_harvest_in_British_Columbia

[high horse Hal]

what is that supposed to be?