Equal Access To Wilderness / Unauthorized Gates

[caddisguy]

Hello to all! I hope everyone is doing well.

I have been in contact with the Ministry regarding unauthorized gates being installed on forestry service roads. The backstory for us here is that returning from a weekend trip last year, my wife and I found ourselves locked behind a newly installed gate.

After some hours of being stuck, a local falsely claiming to be a BC Hydro representative opened the gate for us. It was quite obvious that it was not a BC Hydro gate and he was not a BC Hydro representative. I later confirmed that with BC Hydro.

BC Hydro did some investigating of their own and were advised by the locals that the gate was to protect the land during fire season. It has remained closed since and we are no longer to access a large amount of land / roads for hunting, camping or even to retrieve our trail cameras.

I spoke with a Ministry (Forests) representative who confirmed there are an increasing number of gates being installed in different areas which are not authorized by them. They also confirmed my suspicion the reason for these gates is to prevent hunters from entering these areas. He stated (and I might be paraphrasing) that they are unable to remove the gates because of the controversy it would cause. He indicated the issue at hand is very political and goes all the way to the top levels of government. The best (and maybe only?) course of action is to write our MLA's.

The increasing loss of access to outdoor recreation for hunters, hikers, anglers, campers, etc, should be a very big deal to most, just as the executive branch of government undermining the legislative branch and enforcement, dictating which laws will be enforced or ignored depending on who is involved should be very concerning to anyone. Blocking a road and interfering with hunting activity are both unlawful.

The purpose of this post is to try to determine the scope of impact to outdoor users. I will be looking for feedback from similar groups (anglers, hikers, 4x4 groups, etc) to be able to organize efforts such as writing letters to or in person meetings with MLA's, media contact, messaging, etc.

I have created an email address EqualWildernessAccess@gmail.com (for now) to gather information from anyone who is interested. I might also start a mailing list or other platform at a later time. For now, what I am looking for is:

-----
Name:

Email:

Are you concerned with unauthorized gates restricting access to the back country:

Have you encountered or been affected by unauthorized gate(s)? (Note: You do not need to specify the location of the gate(s), but if you do it will be helpful)
-----

None of the above information will be shared with anyone but rather data such as "How many unauthorized gates", "How many outdoor users are being affected", "hectares of access restricted". If there is ever a reason / benefit to share further information, I will reach out and request your permission first.

If anyone else has some constructive ideas, suggestions, etc, please do chime in. I do ask that we keep the thread civil. How we conduct ourselves is vital for the future of hunting and back country access in general. If we act in a manner that shuts down our own conversations, we can will not gain any traction. If that should happen, perhaps the mod's would be able to turn off comments and make it sticky thread for a period of time.

[Harvest the Land]

Wow thanks for the heads up on this. That would have sucked to be stuck behind an unauthorized gate for hours and not know who to contact or if/when you would get out, particularly if you had to work on Monday morning.

Any chance you would be interested in providing the MU (or general vicinity) of where this occurred, so that those of us who might also hunt/scout these areas can be aware of what we might be getting ourselves into?

I will make sure to post here if I encounter any unauthorized gates

[HappyJack]

Why not just rip them out yourselves?? Some people did that with some up near Prince George.

If the authorities won't pull illegal gates out why would they care if someone else does it???

[Modeltwelve]

Cutting torch.

[KodiakHntr]

Cordless disc grinder is a very handy tool in case you have a breakdown in the bush….

[TheObserver]

"Illegal gates, but we can't do anything about it" Sounds about right. If they are illegal than you can't get charged for cutting it or removing it.

I really hope guys are going to start cutting these, because if not. They will be like cattle guards in the Okanagan. At the start of every FSR.

[TheObserver]

What did it look like did you get a picture? Would like to know how to differentiate between a logging gate or one of these pieces of sh!t

[M1SF1T]

100% - just cut them. Keep bolt cutters or a grinder in your truck.

[RobbieH]

Me too.. post a pic if anyone has one

[TheObserver]

And also what number did you contact the ministry at caddis?

[Steeleco]

This isn't going to be another Native bashing thread. Use your energy and keyboard to do as suggested and write your MLA.

[Steeleco]

I'd like to know how we can tell an authorized gate from a NON authorized one? Just yesterday I took the dog for a stretch up Lost creek, not been up there in eons! Ran into a gate that was posted private. Shot all to hell like most signs, but how do you know?

[HappyJack]

Cut it down, open it up, if there isn't a company sign with contact info prominently displayed then it's not legal, even then it may not be. Writing your MLA is a wasted effort, they are all on the undrip bandwagon now and outdoors people are way way down on the NDP list of those they care about.

[Dirty]

I have encountered this as well. Unfortunately, with dwindling wildlife populations the competition and NIMBYism will get worse. The best thing for wildlife would be to deactivate, restrict motor vehicles, and replant all access roads IMHO. This would help remove unlicensed hunting and give the animals a reprieve.

[browningboy]

I'd like to know how we can tell an authorized gate from a NON authorized one? Just yesterday I took the dog for a stretch up Lost creek, not been up there in eons! Ran into a gate that was posted private. Shot all to hell like most signs, but how do you know?

‘I’m curious as well as to how people would know?

[dakoda62]

There is a gate close to home that a resource company locked a few years ago, spent 4 days building a trail to skirt, not visible unless you know the entrance and exit.

[Liptugger]

I would think a data base of where and when people come across these gates would be useful. Hate to plan a trip, travel a long distance just to fine one of these gates.

[HappyJack]

I have encountered this as well. Unfortunately, with dwindling wildlife populations the competition and NIMBYism will get worse. The best thing for wildlife would be to deactivate, restrict motor vehicles, and replant all access roads IMHO. This would help remove unlicensed hunting and give the animals a reprieve.

A stupid thing for a hunter to suggest, way easier to just shut down the hunting seasons, or just put everything on LEH so people can still send in $ but not really know if anyone is even getting the tags. And 'giving the animals a reprieve' as you suggest would take access away for berry pickers, fishermen, bird watchers, mountain bikers, mushroom pickers, backpackers and all those other people that use these access points. What a stupid suggestion for ANY hunter to make, shutting down access....dumb dumb dumb...PETA approved.

[Arctic Lake]

In a perfect sane world I would think all gates across any public land should have all pertinent information on it
Why , Who , Contact information ! If not rip it the hell out ! Just like those hunters that block roads with vehicles .
Arctic Lake

[Fella]

I have encountered this as well. Unfortunately, with dwindling wildlife populations the competition and NIMBYism will get worse. The best thing for wildlife would be to deactivate, restrict motor vehicles, and replant all access roads IMHO. This would help remove unlicensed hunting and give the animals a reprieve.
I somewhat agree, although I don’t think ALL resource roads should be deactivated, but a lot of them should be. Multiple studies have shown that the presence of roads makes a big impact on wildlife. Get people out moving on their feet or through otherwise non motorized methods and I think we’d see a difference for sure

[j270wsm]

^^^^^not always true. There is massive amounts of land where I live that are area/road closures( gated/deactivated roads ) and the animal populations are just as bad as everywhere else.

[Wentrot]

Cut er down and open up.Put a cam or two up and find out who is installing those and post them everywhere as well. Eff anyone doing what you describe.

[BlackOwL]

https://www.canada.ca/en/campaign/critical-minerals-in-canada/canadian-critical-minerals-strategy.html

Canada has signed a joint action plan with the US to supply critical minerals (you can google more about this)

writing to the MLA is futile, and the NDP as well as the Liberals are up to their ass in this.
these gates are being set by the henchmen of the NDP , under the complacent gaze of the Liberals (ask Minister Wilkinson), but at the same time denying that they have anything to do with this in order to avoid the press.
What remains to be done? unite and protest, unite B4 is 2 late, all the associations of hunters and outdoorsmen/women, naturists, scientists and defenders of nature must be on board, that although the government always denies the impact of its ambition/greed. They must be accountable for the damage they are causing to nature.
and yes bolt cutter and disc grinder or torch are a must.

[caddisguy]

I'd like to know how we can tell an authorized gate from a NON authorized one? Just yesterday I took the dog for a stretch up Lost creek, not been up there in eons! Ran into a gate that was posted private. Shot all to hell like most signs, but how do you know?

In our case, we quickly discovered who was operating the gate, because they had to come let us out. Suspecting those operating the gate were also behind the installation, the question remained... is this legal / authorized.

In September 2022, BC Hydro confirmed to me who installed the gate and that it was to protect the land during fire season

As the gate remained close through to now, I went ahead and emailed the Ministry of Forest Land and Natural Resources. I received a phone call the next morning. They re-confirmed the installer of the gate and confirmed it is not authorized.

So that is the best way to find out. I do recall coming across and "FSR status" website which listed various gates and contact numbers. That might be a good first place to check, but if you do not find the answer there, send off a quick email to the Chilliwack Forest District and you will likely get a quick answer.

Some have asked what the gate looked like. While these gates could probably vary, the gate in this case was bare metal and a bit rusty for what you would expect for a "new gate" (perhaps recycled) It is however well built (beefy so to speak)

In addition to people writing to or meeting with their MLA's, I would encourage sending your reports / information to my email address that I provided in the OP. Having as much data in one place is helpful for messaging. For example, for me to be able to report to a media outlet, or for us to state to our MLA, "Here is how many people we know are being affected, this is how many hectares of backcountry we know is being blocked" delivers a much more powerful message.

I am considering pursuing my case with RAPP. As it has been confirmed by the ministry that it was installed to block hunters, not only is it an illegal gate but the purpose is to interfere with lawful hunting which is a separate offense. While I would be surprised to get any traction there, we can add such details (another law not being enforced) in our messaging. Thoughts on this?

Any other ideas?

What I am trying to do here is fine tune a process for getting people involved. Once I feel we can get some traction, I am going to expand to other stake holder groups such as hiking, fishing, 4x4, even HAM radio groups engaged in SOTA for example are being impacted.

[Dirty]

A stupid thing for a hunter to suggest, way easier to just shut down the hunting seasons, or just put everything on LEH so people can still send in $ but not really know if anyone is even getting the tags. And 'giving the animals a reprieve' as you suggest would take access away for berry pickers, fishermen, bird watchers, mountain bikers, mushroom pickers, backpackers and all those other people that use these access points. What a stupid suggestion for ANY hunter to make, shutting down access....dumb dumb dumb...PETA approved.

How is it shutting down access? The roads weren’t naturally there. They were installed using machinery and changed the natural landscape. It’s funny because all the other uses you listed require the person to get out of their vehicle. Why is it a stupid thing for a Hunter to care about conservation and restoring natural ecosystems? It’s long known that resource roads, especially those maintained in winter, are used by predators to increase success. Furthermore, these roads are commonly used by unlicensed hunting activities. These activities occur at night and are difficult to enforce. It’s in the best interest to start restoring/destroying these roads after logging or mining is complete. We have the right to access crown land. It isn’t our right to access crown land by motor vehicle or all terrain vehicle. That is a luxury.

[caddisguy]

How is it shutting down access? The roads weren’t naturally there. They were installed using machinery and changed the natural landscape. It’s funny because all the other uses you listed require the person to get out of their vehicle. Why is it a stupid thing for a Hunter to care about conservation and restoring natural ecosystems? It’s long known that resource roads, especially those maintained in winter, are used by predators to increase success. Furthermore, these roads are commonly used by unlicensed hunting activities. These activities occur at night and are difficult to enforce. It’s in the best interest to start restoring/destroying these roads after logging or mining is complete. We have the right to access crown land. It isn’t our right to access crown land by motor vehicle or all terrain vehicle. That is a luxury.

I think deactivating roads that are no longer needed for resource extraction, Hydro access, etc is another topic.

This topic is about roads which are active and still required (BC Hydro for example has access through the unauthorized gate) but a gate has been placed there so motor vehicle access for rec purposes is restricted to a specific group.

I believe one demographic should not be able to install a gate so block other demographics so that they can use the roads and hunt the area exclusively.

If I were to install a gate on such a road and say "only people of X heritage, loggers and BC Hydro are allowed" I believe I would be facing penalties in short order and given some extreme "labels" (and rightfully so)

This is about equal access for all demographics on active roads. We are frequently reminded by our government equality of race, religion, gender, etc are important, but I see there is a discrepancy here.

[caddisguy]

And also what number did you contact the ministry at caddis?

Here is the contact information. First link is the main office, second link has regional contact information. I emailed the regional contact late one afternoon and received a phone call the next morning.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/organizational-structure/ministries-organizations/ministries/forests/ministry-contacts

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/industry/forestry/managing-our-forest-resources/ministry-of-forests-lands-and-natural-resource-operations-region-district-contacts

[Retiredguy]

This is about equal access for all demographics on active roads. We are frequently reminded by our government equality of race, religion, gender, etc are important, but I see there is a discrepancy here.

That has not been the case for decades. About 30 years ago I use to hunt in an area where there was a logging road that was gated and hunters could not use motorized transportation. You could get the gate unlocked to go and cut firewood, fish in the streams or go hiking in the summer, but if you wanted to hunt it was by shanks mare or riding a horse. Unless of course you belonged to a special demographic where you did not need a hunting license...in that case the gate was unlocked for you and you could drive in and cruise the logging roads in your truck with shooters in the back of the pickup ready to harvest any ungulate that was visible from the roads. We frequently saw them driving the roads in the middle of the night as well, shooting moose or caribou. No, equality of race is most definitely not what is being practiced when it comes to hunting and fishing.

[SSG-man]

Didn't think it would be just an island problem for long.

[caddisguy]

Didn't think it would be just an island problem for long.

If there are gates on FSR's out that way on public land which are not authorized by the Ministry I would really appreciate if you can send the details to the address I posted in the OP. This is an address I have created so that I can consolidate impact and we can make a strong collective case, not only to restore access but to prevent it from being an accepted norm where we find the only public access to "wilderness" is provincial parks and we are otherwise resticted to pavement.

[Dirty]

If the gates are not authorized then what is preventing you or anybody else from removing them? Surely there cannot be any repercussions for removing illegally discarded metal from a roadway.

https://www.kmstools.com/powerweld-welding-and-cutting-outfit.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyo60upyt_gIVhwGtBh1w bwB9EAQYASABEgLy6fD_BwE

[caddisguy]

If the gates are not authorized then what is preventing you or anybody else from removing them? Surely there cannot be any repercussions for removing illegally discarded metal from a roadway.

https://www.kmstools.com/powerweld-welding-and-cutting-outfit.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyo60upyt_gIVhwGtBh1w bwB9EAQYASABEgLy6fD_BwE

It could be argued that private property is still private property even if it is in a public space obstructing access. One could assume the risk of doing so, but given the laws are applied unevenly (blocking road, obstructing lawful hunt in enforced and therefor defacto legal in one scenario) might find themselves on the defensive side. Found guilty or not, the process is the punishment.

It should be up to enforcement being able to enforce the laws and we should not have an executive branch of government undermining legislative and enforcement branches.

It's easy to talk about removing gates (you would need a better tool than that in this case) but the reality is they will pop back up a few days later, likely at our own expense as tax payers.

Prefer to keep this thread about organizing as outdoor users so that we have the collective voice to address the political "top down" pressure that is occurring in our province.

There is a definition (not a good one) for when a government subverts the legislative branch and undermines enforcement. That is the root here and we need to draw attention to the root.

[Dave177]

@caddisguy I think that its great that you are trying to make a stand here but have you reaced out to some of the provinces hunting organisations, BHA, Hunters for BC, WSS etc.

These organisations have funding and access to membership numbers that probably far exceed the amount of people on here that are willing to stand up and do something, as well as some very knowledgable people on their boards that are used to dealing with MLA's and Government bodies on a regular basis

Possibly also worth reaching out so some other user groups that this could be affecting too, 4X4 clubs, ATV clubs, anglers, backcountry Skiiers

[KootenayKiller]

I'm aware of a popular trail near where I live, Alki Creek Trail in the St. Mary's area, that consisted a long FSR and beautiful hiking trail going up a mountain that was in use many years and very popular. Cabin up high. Not sure on the exact details, but CP (I believe, but could be wrong) sold a small strip of land along the main road down below. Anyhow story goes the landowners of the thin strip down low decided they didnt like the through-trqffic anymore, erected a barrier and closed access to the while thing. Logically I think the first ~200m of the FSR should have remained open as an easement, but no such luck and and so the entire FSR and trail is out of use since. Because land is being sold down low all along the road, access to the mountains above is jeopordized by new/existing landowners opposed to hikers "trespassing" on trails that werre fornerly in use for many years. Our local trail society put out a statement asking people to respect the landowners wishes while they worked out a deal, but years passed and no progress was made. Now the area is seemingly off limits. People aren't happy about it.

Not sure on the answer, but many people put in weeks of work building these fine trail systems that are then taken away from us. I see both sides but feel that it is such a shame. More reason to always be respectful of the environment made available to us so it continues to be available to all. Im not sure how much truth there is to the owners claims about misuse in this case. Im inclined to call BS, as traffic overall in this area is relatively low and I havent seen these issues on other similar trails. Anyhow, is a concern all along the valley in question.

Pardon spellin, on phone.

https://www.kimberleytrails.org/news--events/alki-creek-trailhead-closed

[igojuone]

Cordless disc grinder is a very handy tool in case you have a breakdown in the bush….

Exactly what I was thinking, couple of bigger batteries and a few extra cutting disc, no need to just cut lock off, might as well walk away with some free steel too.

[igojuone]

I'm aware of a popular trail near where I live, Alki Creek Trail in the St. Mary's area, that consisted a long FSR and beautiful hiking trail going up a mountain that was in use many years and very popular. Cabin up high. Not sure on the exact details, but CP (I believe, but could be wrong) sold a small strip of land along the main road down below. Anyhow story goes the landowners of the thin strip down low decided they didnt like the through-trqffic anymore, erected a barrier and closed access to the while thing. Logically I think the first ~200m of the FSR should have remained open as an easement, but no such luck and and so the entire FSR and trail is out of use since. Because land is being sold down low all along the road, access to the mountains above is jeopordized by new/existing landowners opposed to hikers "trespassing" on trails that werre fornerly in use for many years. Our local trail society put out a statement asking people to respect the landowners wishes while they worked out a deal, but years passed and no progress was made. Now the area is seemingly off limits. People aren't happy about it.

Not sure on the answer, but many people put in weeks of work building these fine trail systems that are then taken away from us. I see both sides but feel that it is such a shame. More reason to always be respectful of the environment made available to us so it continues to be available to all. Im not sure how much truth there is to the owners claims about misuse in this case. Im inclined to call BS, as traffic overall in this area is relatively low and I havent seen these issues on other similar trails. Anyhow, is a concern all along the valley in question.

Pardon spellin, on phone.

https://www.kimberleytrails.org/news--events/alki-creek-trailhead-closed

How many years was the access road/trail open, IIRC if access is allowed over land and never closed after a given number of years it can never be closed. I think there's a road somewhere in the LML that shuts down 1 day or a weekend every year just so that doesn't happen to the landowner.

[hawk-i]

The trouble with the government doing nothing about illegal gates is the wrong guy is going to have a run in with the wrong guy installing the illegal gates and someone will die!

The government department and those officers who refused to do their jobs by allowing this to escalate to a undetermined end should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

Just My Humble Opinion though.

[nature girl]

Hey Caddisguy sorry you and Caddisgirl got stuck behind that gate. What a piss off situation that would be. Imagine if you or Caddisgirl were seriously hurt and had to get out fast. Then you come up to that locked gate. That was just freak in stupid that they put the gate in without seeing if someone was past it first.
Our beautiful backcountry is being taken away from us.

[M1SF1T]

The trouble with the government doing nothing about illegal gates is the wrong guy is going to have a run in with the wrong guy installing the illegal gates and someone will die!

The government department and those officers who refused to do their jobs by allowing this to escalate to a undetermined end should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

Just My Humble Opinion though.

100%

Any infringement to lawful access should be immediately dealt with. If that is just the policy and practise, if group know their gate will be removed, then they will be wasting money and it will stop.

In the meantime I'm cutting any locked gates that prevent me from lawfully moving through and accessing crown land.

[Arctic Lake]

If they are not lawful gates blocking Crown Land rip them out !
Arctic Lake

[caddisguy]

@caddisguy I think that its great that you are trying to make a stand here but have you reaced out to some of the provinces hunting organisations, BHA, Hunters for BC, WSS etc.

These organisations have funding and access to membership numbers that probably far exceed the amount of people on here that are willing to stand up and do something, as well as some very knowledgable people on their boards that are used to dealing with MLA's and Government bodies on a regular basis

Possibly also worth reaching out so some other user groups that this could be affecting too, 4X4 clubs, ATV clubs, anglers, backcountry Skiiers

Excellent post. Yes I will definitely be reaching out to all stakeholder groups for more feedback / info... angling, hiking, 4x4 mushroom picking, photography, even SOTA HAM radio groups.

Great idea to see if BC hunting organizations can assist with their resources in any way. I will explore that too.

Thank you for your post!

[caddisguy]

Hey Caddisguy sorry you and Caddisgirl got stuck behind that gate. What a piss off situation that would be. Imagine if you or Caddisgirl were seriously hurt and had to get out fast. Then you come up to that locked gate. That was just freak in stupid that they put the gate in without seeing if someone was past it first.
Our beautiful backcountry is being taken away from us.

Yes I am glad we weren't coming out with any kind of emergency. Just a bit uncomfortable being stuck there on a very hot day. The gate is in a pretty bad place too and was not flagged or painted, just a thick hunk of brown steel across the road. I have not looked at it in the dark, but I remember thinking huh... I wonder how visible that is at night and if someone might end up coming around the corner and driving right into it.

I share the concern about backcountry access being taken away at an accelerating pace, but this post has generated a lot of interest. I appreciate all the emails and contacts so far. The topic is already getting a ton of attention and this is only just the very start of a "test balloon" to speak. So there's some good news!

[triggerhappy]

I ran into one of these gates one time. I had my axe in the truck, so I smashed the lock with the back side of the axe head. It came off and I drove through. If you know the land on the other side is not private, smash or cut away.

[Bugle M In]

Makes me want to install the 10,000 pto military winch again!
Would of made short work of that!

I think Caddis is bringing up something we will see more of.
I can think of 2 roads one of the local bands where I hunt will probably install them.
Its just a matter of time.

Cordless grinder seems like a lighter but still effective alternative.

[TheObserver]

So I will be making a call to the MOF this morning. I will be cutting any that obstruct me from any areas I go to or am interested in.

If anyone is interested on going on cutting sprees this Spring/Summer pm me we can split gas and just go cut all the ones we know about and are able too. Multiple vehicles would be even better. I am willing to take away from my scouting time.

If you don't stand up you'll lose it all, there is something you can do, do it.

[Ferenc]

“ Walter “ is a good brand Zip cut .... Millwauke has the good format in 18volt ... thinking some already have the Sawzall in their kit for cutting up game ... for 188 bucks gets you the 18 volt grinder .... everyone needs a cordless grinder .... : )

[snakeplain]

People vote for the government, and those responsible for putting up these gates, it will get worse it’s called Socialism/communism, deny access, governments want total control, even your fishing and hunting days will come to an end, people vote for this.

[walks with deer]

I was trapped about 15years ago behind such a gate it sucked..next guy who was stuck behind me had a torch!

[Bugle M In]

Sounds like we be a thread on what to keep in the vehicle.
Milwaukee M18 Grinder but with what blade works best.
As for torch, are we talking Acetylene? Or other?
Winch.
????

[dakoda62]

The Blueberry band and 4 other others just signed another agreement for cash and 454 sq km, lot's of gates going up.

[TheObserver]

The Blueberry band and 4 other others just signed another agreement for cash and 454 sq km, lot's of gates going up.

Link? .

[IronNoggin]

Link? .

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023IRR0019-000539

[walks with deer]

We need to press on all we can about the interm season suspensions that occured last year.

[ElectricDyck]

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2023IRR0019-000539

3 billion to claims in the last year! Holy shit thats a lot of taxes they got to take from us!

[TheObserver]

We need to press on all we can about the interm season suspensions that occured last year.

Too who though?

[Bugle M In]

How is it shutting down access? The roads weren’t naturally there. They were installed using machinery and changed the natural landscape. It’s funny because all the other uses you listed require the person to get out of their vehicle. Why is it a stupid thing for a Hunter to care about conservation and restoring natural ecosystems? It’s long known that resource roads, especially those maintained in winter, are used by predators to increase success. Furthermore, these roads are commonly used by unlicensed hunting activities. These activities occur at night and are difficult to enforce. It’s in the best interest to start restoring/destroying these roads after logging or mining is complete. We have the right to access crown land. It isn’t our right to access crown land by motor vehicle or all terrain vehicle. That is a luxury.
That’s fine, but deactivate them then.
Thus no one can enjoy the luxury.
I am okay with that.

[high horse Hal]

Too who though?Do belong to a f&g club?

[high horse Hal]

That’s fine, but deactivate them then.
Thus no one can enjoy the luxury.
I am okay with that.Often resource roads remain active for years pending future work, de act would be an unnecessary expense

For transparency and good relations , any gate should have to have info posted in regard to ownership and purpose, with a contact number
if nothing else to assist in emergency situations

[Bugle M In]

Often resource roads remain active for years pending future work, de act would be an unnecessary expense

For transparency and good relations , any gate should have to have info posted in regard to ownership and purpose, with a contact number
if nothing else to assist in emergency situations
Absolutely.
There certainly are plenty of roads that are gated or left often for “resource purposes”.
If open, then open to all.
If locked, then locked to all, except for authorized AND yes, a sign posted stating the authorized holder.

However, I think Caddis is touching on a completely different and concerning trend!
I know of a few roads that I wouldn’t be surprised will end up with gates on them.
And it won’t be resource or safety intentions.

Let’s just state the obvious here, these land claim bs is going to be a big issue for the rest of us.
And to be even more honest, some of this trends from non fn private interests to begin with.
The private lake access on Douglas Ranch is a small example.
A gate was put up in the Pitt river area for grizzly protection (as told to me?), yet the lodge there has a key!?
And there are folks in here that have way more knowledge and experience on these issues and what is transpiring.

Access is going to be a big issue, and it’s only going to get worse.
Just like hunting opportunities are trending down and becoming more and more limited.
Same here on the LM and a possible full out closure to salmon fishing out front of the Fraser potentially.

Access and opportunity is disappearing at a quick rate now.
And I know the FN would like to use every opportunity after all these large fires we have had to close off more access. (And that is first hand convo I have had with a few band members in the past couple years).

[walks with deer]

Caddisguy sent you some info via the email you set up..

[TheObserver]

Do belong to a f&g club?

Hal not sure what you mean by f&g, fish and game?

I am a member of the Mission District Rod and Gun Club and am there frequently

[high horse Hal]

Thats how movements start, local members go to their club with an idea, support in numbers

[TheObserver]

Thats how movements start, local members go to their club with an idea, support in numbers

I can and definitely will talk to people there about it, idk why all the gun clubs didn't get together about the handgun ban and I raised this question on here and at the club but maybe not with the right people there. So far all I have is conglomerate with other outdoor user groups and cut em which I will definitely be doing undoubtedly my word

[brian]

It could be argued that private property is still private property even if it is in a public space obstructing access. if you park your car in the wrong spot and it gets towed, then it could be argued that your private property is removed without your permission. Perhaps there are legal arguments for the removal of private property if it is blocking public access or against the public good. I believe there are similar arguments being made for the removal of tent cities in public places.

[caddisguy]

And there goes another one! This was posted on the Hope Bulletin Board Facebook group.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hopebulletinboard/permalink/6189395911144071/

Posted to the community upon request by Chief Ken Hansen, Yale First Nation.

Yale First Nation Information Release: North Emory Forest Service Road

Yale First Nation has closed the North Emory Forest Service Road to non-members pursuant to our own laws and stewardship responsibilities. This is not a decision we have taken lightly. This is an emergency measure to address significant pressures on the ability of our members to exercise their protected rights to hunt and harvest. In addition to forest fires and overharvesting throughout our territory, we continue to identify garbage, oil jugs, illegal fires, and reports of poaching and pit-lamp hunting along the North Emory Forest Service Road. This is one of the remaining pristine areas Yale First Nation has traditionally hunted and harvested and we must protect it for our current and future members. We ask the public to respect our decision.

We recognize this is a decision that impacts our settler neighbors’. We have identified other areas in our territory suitable for recreational access, including the Nickel Mine Recreational Area south of Emory Creek. We wanted to take this opportunity to provide information about our Indigenous laws, decision-making rights, and harvesting rights across our territory. Please note that this is a decision made by Yale First Nation. We respect the rights of our Indigenous neighbors to make their own decisions about how to manage and use their lands.

Yale First Nation’s Decision-Making Rights and Responsibilities

Yale First Nation members and their ancestors have used and occupied the lands and waters in and around Hope, British Columbia since time immemorial. Prior to colonization and the creation of the Province of British Columbia, we governed these lands and waters in accordance with our own laws and stewardship responsibilities. Our laws and responsibilities survived the arrival of Europeans. Yale First Nation’s ancestors never surrendered our right to use and govern our lands. Today, we continue to have the right to make decisions about how to care for our land, and how to protect our members’ way of life, which includes hunting and harvesting.
Canadian courts have recognized First Nations continue to hold title and rights in respect of the territories they used and cared for since before colonization. Aboriginal title includes the right to decide how the land will be used and managed, the right to use and benefit from the land, and the right to decide who has access to the land. These rights are recognized and protected by the Canadian constitution.

Canadian courts have also acknowledged that when conservation efforts are required in respect of wildlife management, Indigenous peoples’ harvesting rights must be prioritized over the rights of recreational land users. This flows from the unique relationship between the Crown and Indigenous peoples and from the fact we have used our lands to hunt and harvest for food and ceremonial purposes since time immemorial.

Our laws and decision-making authority over our lands is also recognized by the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples (“UNDRIP”). UNDRIP sets out minimum standards for the survival, dignity, and well-being of Indigenous Peoples. UNDRIP recognizes our right to determine how our lands and resources are used through our own governments.

Both Canada and the Province have enacted legislation which formally obligates them to implement UNDRIP, including through federal and provincial law.
To be clear, our title, rights and decision-making authority extends across our territory – Our territory is not limited to Indian Act reserves. It includes the lands and waters that we have always relied on to maintain our culture, identity, and way of life.
When we make decisions about how to manage our lands, including access for hunting and harvesting, we are exercising our inherent and constitutional rights.

Closure of North Emory Forest Service Road

Yale First Nation has decided that the closure of the North Emory Forest Service Road is necessary to protect our resources and our members’ harvesting rights. This decision is an exercise of our inherent law-making authority and stewardship responsibilities. Under our laws we must ensure our current and future members have meaningful access to our territory to harvest wildlife for food, as well as engage in cultural and ceremonial activities. These are activities integral to our identity as Indigenous people and are protected rights under the Canadian constitution.

Decades of continuous resource development have stressed our lands and resources, and the availability of wildlife. We have heard from our members that it has been years since some of them have been able to harvest a deer along the North Emory Forest Service Road. This area used to provide an abundance of resources for our community, and it is our hope we can return it to this state. Our members are also concerned with the added pressure to this area caused by littering, poaching, illegal pit fires and the incidents of severe forest fires throughout the Province.

In light of these pressures, the North Emory Forest Service Road is closed to non-members until such time as we are able to restore the health and integrity of our wildlife populations. We direct the general public to use other portions of our territory for recreational activities at this time. We appreciate your cooperation, and your respect for Yale First Nation’s laws, responsibilities and protected rights.
Chief Ken Hansen,
Yale First Nation
If you are interested in learning more about the unique status of Indigenous Rights and Yale First Nation’s relationship with its territory, please visit these educational resources:
• The United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: https://social.desa.un.org/.../united-nations-declaration...
• The National Centre of Truth and Reconciliation: https://nctr.ca/
• Indigenous Foundations: http://indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.

[Arctic Lake]

What’s next for limiting access to people born here , even generations prior that are not First Nations ?
Im not liking not being able to access less and less land !
Arctic Lake

[M1SF1T]

That's ****ed. Racist. The double standard in this country has to end. The entire country is subject to Indian land claims, there will be nothing left.

[Arctic Lake]

Is it ever racist when it’s a Caucasian British Columbia who gets something taken away ? Different rules for different people .
Arctic Lake
That's ****ed. Racist. The double standard in this country has to end. The entire country is subject to Indian land claims, there will be nothing left.

[caddisguy]

The entire country is subject to Indian land claims, there will be nothing left.

That is what I am told by the Ministry, that these gates are popping up all over the province. It is a legitimate concern that significant (perhaps most) access could be lost (for most people)

[TheObserver]

That is what I am told by the Ministry, that these gates are popping up all over the province. It is a legitimate concern that significant (perhaps most) access could be lost (for most people)

Hey tried sending you a PM but inbox is full

[BCHunterTV]

Chris if you want access i can get you in... let me know

[caddisguy]

Hey tried sending you a PM but inbox is full

Fixed it if you want to try again

[caddisguy]

Chris if you want access i can get you in... let me know

Always appreciated Danny, chatting about that now through other means :)

Side story here... I do have a few trailcams in that neck of the woods and this would not the first time HBC's one and only BCHunterTV has set the stage for me recovering trailcams, this time in an entirely different region under totally different circumstances. I think this will bring the total up to 12 trailcams you helped me recover LOL

Gates gotta go, but who knows how long it will be for that to get sorted out but in the mean time sure would be nice to get those trailcams back.

[caddisguy]

For those who have Facebook or know people who have Facebook, please do go and weigh in on the discussions with regard to post #65 on the previous page regarding the Emory blockade where Chief Ken Hansen's press release refers to everyone else as "Settler Neighbours"... listed in order of priority:

Hope Bullion Board:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/hopebulletinboard/posts/6189395911144071

Hunting Facebook Page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/HuntingBc/posts/3744783829082627

4WDABC:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/4wdabc/posts/10159550752311009

Ruby Creek, Squeah, etc also blocked. This is taking off quickly. Please voice your opinion. If you want to go further:

The NRO has been the most responsive body so far. Here is the link where you can report the violation online. The page also has a phone number you can call. Filing the complaint and following it up with a phone call is what I recommend:


https://forms.gov.bc.ca/industry/report-a-natural-resource-violation/


Ken's press release states one of their objectives is to block hunting access. Section 80 of the Wildlife Act states:


80 Obstructing licensed persons
A person commits an offence if the person interferes with or obstructs a person licensed or permitted to capture wildlife or to hunt, fish, guide or trap while that person is lawfully so engaged.

You can also report it to RAPP (Conservation):

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/natural-resource-stewardship/natural-resource-law-enforcement/conservation-officer-service/cos-rapp

Lastly, the Chilliwack Forest Service District has been responsive:

Forests.ChilliwackDistrictOffice@gov.bc.ca
604-702-5700
Fax: 604-702-5711

If they can get away with closing vast amounts of land over anecdotal unsubstantiated claims, there's not much hope left. They submitted a press release for a reason. When was the last time we saw a press release over access that didn't involve a fire or anything, just "we're claiming this" ??? ... if that's the new standard, I don't know what to say, but I think the reason is that the heat is on over the gate, so it's a posturing maneuver, good time to voice up.

[Arctic Lake]

Caddis ! This is getting out of hand ! We need to stop this snowball before it turns into an avalanche ! As soon as I can I will voice my concerns . I’m not on Facebook so let me know my best approach
Thank You
Arctic Lake

[CDN offroader]

I'm having the opposite problem with hunters driving past 4 different private property/no trespassing signs onto my property, and then trying to argue that the private right of way on my land is actually an FSR. A quick check on the forestry website confirms that it is not.

In the back corner of my property I found that someone has been maintaining a brushcut trail accessing another piece of private property behind me(and no it's not the landowner.) After putting up a brushpile and a very obvious private property sign, I came back to find that the brushpile has been pushed out of the way using a tractor/plow vehicle of some sort. Trail cameras and locked steel gates are the next step I guess.