Elk Diaphragms, Tips and Techniques

[TheObserver]

Hey guys,

Already looking forward to try my hand at Elk next Sept.

Learnt so much this year and even though I got great advice from here, studied and researched the internet very hard and got proficient with my bugle and cow call, scouted every second weekend sometimes every weekend since May until the opener still felt green stepping into that valley on opener a lot different to me than hunting Deer.

But now with all the time I spent out there during season and the learning and mistakes close calls and call in, I feel like I know where to go when to go how to go about it and feel confident I can get a Bull this next season.

With all that in mind there is one thing I want to focus on this year in addition and that is becoming proficient with diaphragms I feel like it is pretty crucial being able to make nearly any Elk noise with one call, I know there is a lot of content on the web and I will certainly be taking advantage of that, but want to exhaust all my resources and ask my fellow BC sportsmen about tips and techniques for diaphragms? I know some people cut them down etc.

Seems like it is going to be a tough learning curve for me with them.

[Bugle M In]

I have tried many different brands and styles.
I just prefer hands down the Wayne Carlton tone troughs.
Maybe because I blow air harder?
But they hold up for the week.
And I just prefer the tone it gives.
And I prefer the 2.5 version (layer).
I can cover a high pitched note if get down a growl with it and sound like an old bull.
The trough probably helps beginners or those that feel like they may choke on it or accidentally swallow it!
I started with the HS series with out the trough.
I think both companies are somehow together.
Latex just seems thicker.
Primos is the worst for me.
Thin latex, imo.
I have tried the buglin bulls brands etc, those with a metal frame trough etc.
Again, they are okay, but I always go back to Carlton’s.

You will most likely have to order them from USA.
No one here Carrie’s them anymore it seems.
The yellow ones without the trough are really good as well.
The plastic trough is just easily positioned in the dome of your upper mouth.
Imo

[mikeman20]

buy one of the triple variety packs (Rocky mountain elk calls) from cabelas, cost about $30. That way you can get a feel for a few different styles. They are decent quality for not too much.

Once you're better then maybe try experimenting with expensive ones.

edit: like bugle em in says, the primos ones sucked. Mine fell apart after a few weeks of practicing.

[HarryToolips]

Hey guys,

Already looking forward to try my hand at Elk next Sept.

Learnt so much this year and even though I got great advice from here, studied and researched the internet very hard and got proficient with my bugle and cow call, scouted every second weekend sometimes every weekend since May until the opener still felt green stepping into that valley on opener a lot different to me than hunting Deer.

But now with all the time I spent out there during season and the learning and mistakes close calls and call in, I feel like I know where to go when to go how to go about it and feel confident I can get a Bull this next season.

With all that in mind there is one thing I want to focus on this year in addition and that is becoming proficient with diaphragms I feel like it is pretty crucial being able to make nearly any Elk noise with one call, I know there is a lot of content on the web and I will certainly be taking advantage of that, but want to exhaust all my resources and ask my fellow BC sportsmen about tips and techniques for diaphragms? I know some people cut them down etc.

Seems like it is going to be a tough learning curve for me with them.

I'm envious of your scouting time lol..

For me, to gain proficiency at the diaphragm calls it is/was all about the practice.. listen to lots of videos and learn the different calls and sounds they make, learn to make a variety of different cow calls and bull calls...also, a key for me was I was pressing too hard at first with my tongue: lighter is key, I found then at that point I was able to direct my blow more effectively in the right area..

Also, confidence is good, run with it but realize it's hunting and anything can happen, it's never a guarantee..last year I harvested a 6x6, this past season I took my hunting partner to the same area to get him a bull (unfortunately neither of us had any time to do pre season scouting of the area), and they weren't there this year, the dynamics with the different weather etc had changed, fortunately we were able to find elk quickly in a different area, but we were 1 tine short of a harvest then we got on what we believe was a legal bull but we couldn't confirm then we both had to leave for work , that's hunting and the way it rolls sometimes..

Cheers man

[savage10]

I’m a new elk hunter/caller as well. I started with the Rocky Mountain calls, they were ok for me. Then I came across wapiti river outdoors at the BC outdoor show. I found the calls from Wapiti River Outdoors awesome to use. They have many different calls with various styles, latex thickness ect.

[Bugle M In]

My hunting partner doesn’t bugle, just cow calls.
Anyways, he is a good guy.
He was at a sporting good store, and thought he would get me some from Ricky Mountain, 4 different ones.
He realized that they ain’t cheap, and decided I shouldn’t always be paying for them! (So that was thoughtful of him).

I can say the Ricky Mountain are okay.
Certainly better marketed and easily found in the LM.

I think it’s just a “feel thing” one gets used to.
My rifles have to have a Monte Carlo comb stock.
Its just what I grew up with!

I suspect people tend to blow hard, more than they need to.
Primos latex is just too thin for me.
Maybe for those that can’t blow hard, they work well.

I know another friend who has hunted elk with me at times but not frequently, started to bugle on hunts when I wasn’t there.
I heard once, after a couple of years of him doing it, and I could tell he had the ability to be decent at it.
So I gave him a 2.5 Carlton tone trough.
Next season he called me up and said he could hear the difference.
When I heard him, I could certainly tell it upped his calling and the overall sounds he could create.
They are just not easy to find in a store, so I think that’s why they aren’t mentioned often in threads.

[Bullreaper]

I’ve tried pretty much every brand of diaphragm and Rocky Mountain calls I find work best for me. My hunting partner hates them, he likes the Phelps calls. It can be expensive initially, but try ‘‘em all and figure out what works best for you. I always carry at least 3 diaphragms with me when I’m hunting. I have a light, medium and stiff latex. It’s one thing to be able to make elk sounds, and a totally different game knowing how to speak the language. Educate yourself on what the elk are trying to say, or what their mood is based on the sound they are making. The goal is to toy with the elks emotions, make him horny or get him pissed. Therefore you need to have emotion in your calling, not just blowing air making random elk sounds. Know what sound to make and when. You can use a single diaphragm for pretty much everything and it will work. Personally, I use a light latex for cow chirps and location bugles. When I get a bull fired up and it’s game time, I switch to the heavy latex, then I can either get those really buzzing estrus cow chirps, or my favourite, the deep, growly, f*ck you, I’m the herd bull challenge bugles. I always make sure when I buy my calls I double up, cause I will wear out 3 diaphragms in a season easy. Elk101.com is priceless, probably the best education on everything elk besides getting out there yourself. When you find a diaphragm that works for you, practice, practice, practice. If your wife or neighbours aren’t ready to kill you, your not practicing enough.

[HarryToolips]

I’ve tried pretty much every brand of diaphragm and Rocky Mountain calls I find work best for me. My hunting partner hates them, he likes the Phelps calls. It can be expensive initially, but try ‘‘em all and figure out what works best for you. I always carry at least 3 diaphragms with me when I’m hunting. I have a light, medium and stiff latex. It’s one thing to be able to make elk sounds, and a totally different game knowing how to speak the language. Educate yourself on what the elk are trying to say, or what their mood is based on the sound they are making. The goal is to toy with the elks emotions, make him horny or get him pissed. Therefore you need to have emotion in your calling, not just blowing air making random elk sounds. Know what sound to make and when. You can use a single diaphragm for pretty much everything and it will work. Personally, I use a light latex for cow chirps and location bugles. When I get a bull fired up and it’s game time, I switch to the heavy latex, then I can either get those really buzzing estrus cow chirps, or my favourite, the deep, growly, f*ck you, I’m the herd bull challenge bugles. I always make sure when I buy my calls I double up, cause I will wear out 3 diaphragms in a season easy. Elk101.com is priceless, probably the best education on everything elk besides getting out there yourself. When you find a diaphragm that works for you, practice, practice, practice. If your wife or neighbours aren’t ready to kill you, your not practicing enough.

I agree, I too find getting the emotion into the calls is a huge benefit...lol and you're bang on with getting the family mad and tired of hearing the calls, the wife was starting to lose her $hit last year especially lol..

[Bugle M In]

Yes, you need extras!!
If you are out, covering lots of ground, thus bugling, they can get pretty soggy after a few days.
Then you need a new one.
Plus, they somehow end up falling on the ground and getting lost from time to time!
Agree, most single reeds can be used as a cow call.
There are dedicated ones.

And yes, it takes time to figure out what they are saying.
A bugle with chuckle May mean I am big dog, and I will come for you.
A chuckle may mean get lost due to having cows.

I recommend those new to it try to imitate the bull.
If he is coming in, you will know pretty quickly.
Time of day may influence it as well and what they do.

I also recommend a Montana decoy.
Depending how you hunt and the area you are in.
They will quite often hang up once they have direct line of sight to where you should be.
However sometimes they walk right in anyways.
Sometimes they are heading towards you and then veer off for no reason and you don’t see them.

It’s never for certain what they will do.
Ine thing that generally is true, if they have cows, and are still far enough away, they don’t want to leave cows and sometimes just pack up and leave.
Then on the odd time, if they have their cows stashed away, they may come to get you to back off.

The one thing that is completely true, is once you have bugled with a bull, and have got one to come in, it becomes totally addictive!
And practice is a must.
I had to drive 45 minutes to snd from work, and was a great way to practice without driving the household nuts or the dog from continuously howling!

Ricky mountain does make great tubes.
And I think their mouth call version is probably the best one out there.
The power bugle (no diaphragm) still works however for many folks.
It somehow jyst hits a high note that just has a tone all its own.

The big difference between say the power bugle vs mouth call is that you can create all sorts of unique raspy, lip bawling that you can’t get from any other call.
And chuckling can’t be properly done at all with any other call but a diaphragm.

There is lots of good videos out there.
I tend to look for pure elk videos and pay attention to what elk do.
You will soon learn in quick succession have elk can vary from one to the next.
And is why you don’t need to be perfect.

[Ourea]

Diaphragm calls...

Every mouth and pallet is different so certain calls will "fit" your mouth better than others. The other thing to consider is single vs double vs triple membrane.
Singles and doubles are much easier to learn on. Triples are not the place to start IMO. They take a lot of tongue pressure and will vibrate heavily (tickle the sh*t out of the roof or mouth} as you practice and learn to control it.

The thinner diaphragms are easier to articulate with and control.
They are much easier to do subtle cow calls and chirps.

Triples are good for bellowing.

Being a product guy having sourced numerous products for my retailers you are always looking for a better mouse trap and inputting for product improvement.

I took a one and one half inch corrogated tubing, cut half the bottom out of a 1.5 liter plastic Coke container, trimmed the top to allow the tubing to be inserted. Hockey taped the sh*t out of it to keep it together and to mitigate any awkward sound of plastic touching brush, your pack etc.

The resonance chamber created by the Coke container is quite something. The sound is quite intense, superior to any commercial tube.
Great for locating a response or two as it is getting light as the sound carries.

[Bugle M In]

There is a company that sold a Rubber corrugated hose, just like the old rad hoses you found on vehicles in the 50’s.
Nice thing with a soft rubber vs plastic is, it doesn’t give you that “tinny sound”.
You will also see some tubes have a heavy rubber band around them to reduce that also.
I may try to find an inner tube to fully wrap around the tube I have.
I have one of those large tubes, and then the corrugated hose mounted to it.
I was considering buying the Abe and Sons tube and seeing if i could cut out that sound chamber and modify in between the rubber hose.

As some one said, it can get expensive.
I think most real avid elk callers have dozens of different manufactures diaphragms, hand held cow call and tubes sitting around, trying to find what works best for them.

Back when I started, there weren’t many folks that you could learn from.
Larry D Jones, Carleton we’re probably some of the first to get deep into it and showing different techniques on calling sounds and ways to hunt elk, imo.
So very few hunters out there in the field that were good.

Today there are so many folks that are damn good at it.
And there will be plenty of different views and opinions to draw from.

[MOUNTAIN MICKEY]

If you are looking for tubes---vacuum cleaner hose works. I started off with a plastic "whistle" then acquired a grunt tube and some diaphrams. Few years later I had to get a top partial plate and the "fit" was off so I shopped around and got a whole bunch more diaphrams trying to get previous results reclaimed. I always have multiple cow/calf/bull calls with me as I want to be a "herd" of elk not just one bull/cow etc. Like some of my hunting friends, we prefer to be less agressive "animals". But there are times when mixing it up is the answer.

[Imdone]

Wayne Carlton or Rocky Mountain Diaphragms are my fave.
Combined with a Grunt Tube.
Put emotion into the bugles and rake too.

[maze]

one thing I will say is that I think learning what calls actually mean is one of the most important things you can do. Sure, you may know how to do certain calls, but if you dont know WHEN to use them, it's all kinda pointless.

As for diaphragms, i really love Rocky Mountain calls, specifically the "reaper" and "black magic" ones.

this is the video that taught me a lot of the basics of calling: https://youtu.be/1zMW6w1Drb8

[TheObserver]

Thanks for the replies Gents as always!

Last year mid summer I picked up some diaphragms, so I have a 4 pack of Wayne Carleton's variety, a single, double, 2.5 and a triple (no domes). I also got a 3 pack of Rocky Mountain calls, Elk 101 3 pack 2.0, all of them are single's I believe (all domed) but these 7 are what I will be starting with.

Couldn't learn them quick enough last year I felt so I went with the ELK inc. Power Bugle and Deluxe Cow Talk I started practicing these well before when I bought the diaphragms, I called in a Bull that almost ran me over to 5 yards (he definitely thought the power bugle was a real bull challenging him) and had a vocal interaction with another with it. Heard some others too so not a complete stranger anymore. I have already purchased Elk101 in Sept (kind of late for last season) so will be going through that a couple times before opening as well.

But forsure after learning just about Elk in general and habitat, feed etc and finding ~4 different rutting grounds of different Elk. This year will be focusing more on the right call and when to use it.

Thanks for the tips and links I will be trying out this stuff for sure and watching the linked videos. Also idk if anyone has used an aluminum tube I bought one made by Rocky Mountain calls we'll see how it sounds i'm going to try the home made tubes suggested here too.

[Bugle M In]

Rocky has some interesting features to their tubes.
I managed to get a hold of one part from one of their tubes that had a metal coil spring in it.
I then adapted that part into their bigger tube with that corrugated tube that actually had a mouth call on it.
I see that some of their tubes now have a cross section metal piece inside the mouth area.

I suspect I know what they are trying to do.
Abe and sins has that chamber half ways in between their tube.
Primos tried to put a bulbous chamber at the end of their calls,
They are all trying to produce that deeper hollow resonating sound a real bull makes.
Elk have huge lungs, and a long throat.
Its almost like their tones have an amplifier.
I can really explain it, but when you are around a bull, especially up close, most know what I mean.
Like trumpet compared to a baratone.

What I have come to realize, imo.
A tube with bigger corrugation design seems to give more depth to the call vs a tube of with smaller corrugated ridges.
A longer tube is better than a short tube.
A soft, say rubber tube removes that plasticy metallic sound, but a rubber tube also quiets down the volume vs plastic, it dampens it.
So rubber tube sounds better, but the range the bugle carries is less.
The rubber band version if elk calls, like power bugle do give that higher whistly sound that is just not as easy to reproduce with a diaphragm.
You certainly can hit very high notes with a diaphragm, but you lose that little bit of flutey sound.
I think that’s why we see those metal springs in some calls.
It probably adds some vibrato to the sound..
And that Abe tone chamber probably adds that hollow resonance that a bull has.

Calls/tubes alone will never properly be like a bull.
Thats where a disphragm and an individual talent closes the gap.
But unless you have an amplifier on the end of the call, it will never be 100% real.

But chuckles, lip bawls, grunting and glunking are all things that can be achieved with a diaphragm.

When to chuckle only or add it in or do this or that, well that’s much harder to know.
A chuckle can get a bull amped up more, other times he wants nothing to do with it.

Thats why cow calls really help.
And I use a diaphragm for that also.
But I really do like the hand held cows calls even more.
Primos hyper lip is probably the closest I have found.
Like the hoochie, but way more reliable.
And Ticky makes some great ones also!
I think Rocky has the best options for those big bellowed tubes.

If I recall right, it might have been Berry’s that made that rubber packable corrugated tube??
Every few years I try to adapt my call.
Trying to get that closer to hollow amplified sound.

But I think elk calling and what you can get is all that is ever needed anymore.
Its come a long way.

[ACE]

Have used an early Abe & Son bugle for many years, combined with a CowTalk call.
Find the reed type calls are quite 'one dimensional' . . . the A & S is versatile.
Learn when to call, when to move, etc. . . . lots to learn, many variables, all fun.

I've had a G-bear come to my calls in the Flathead . . .

[TheObserver]

Have used an early Abe & Son bugle for many years, combined with a CowTalk call.
Find the reed type calls are quite 'one dimensional' . . . the A & S is versatile.
Learn when to call, when to move, etc. . . . lots to learn, many variables, all fun.

I've had a G-bear come to my calls in the Flathead . . .


I had a big one I ran into right after calling in the Okanagan this season, I figure he must have been making his way up to me where I was making my way down calling. He heard it all for sure

[Bugle M In]

Twice for me plus a cougar.
And 3 really big bull moose!!??????

[TheObserver]

Twice for me plus a cougar.
And 3 really big bull moose!!??????

Haha yep I also called in a big Bull Moose with bugling+raking this year as well, Oct 4th ran in breaking everything in it's way thought it was going to be a Bull Elk for sure.

Then 20 mins later I found this..... was a crazy season!

https://i.imgur.com/eqDhoJI.jpg

[maze]

Thanks for the replies Gents as always!

Last year mid summer I picked up some diaphragms, so I have a 4 pack of Wayne Carleton's variety, a single, double, 2.5 and a triple (no domes). I also got a 3 pack of Rocky Mountain calls, Elk 101 3 pack 2.0, all of them are single's I believe (all domed) but these 7 are what I will be starting with.

Couldn't learn them quick enough last year I felt so I went with the ELK inc. Power Bugle and Deluxe Cow Talk I started practicing these well before when I bought the diaphragms, I called in a Bull that almost ran me over to 5 yards (he definitely thought the power bugle was a real bull challenging him) and had a vocal interaction with another with it. Heard some others too so not a complete stranger anymore. I have already purchased Elk101 in Sept (kind of late for last season) so will be going through that a couple times before opening as well.

But forsure after learning just about Elk in general and habitat, feed etc and finding ~4 different rutting grounds of different Elk. This year will be focusing more on the right call and when to use it.

Thanks for the tips and links I will be trying out this stuff for sure and watching the linked videos. Also idk if anyone has used an aluminum tube I bought one made by Rocky Mountain calls we'll see how it sounds i'm going to try the home made tubes suggested here too.

Wanna let me know how that elk101 program is? I heard its basically a bunch of stuff you could get off the internet for free elsewhere. But if it's actually good, i'd try it out.

[Bullreaper]

Wanna let me know how that elk101 program is? I heard its basically a bunch of stuff you could get off the internet for free elsewhere. But if it's actually good, i'd try it out.


In my opinion, it’s definitely worth it. Sure you can find pretty much everything on the internet, but with Elk101, it’s all in one place. As far as the elk hunting world goes, Corey Jacobson is probably one of those people worth taking advice from. Instead of going on elk101 and getting an elk hunting university subscription, you are better off checking out “outdoor class”. Subscription is pretty much the same price and the elk hunting university is included plus you get all sorts of other stuff. Mule deer hunting, cooking, etc. You can use promo codes “Randy” “LIVEWILD” or “REMI”. Either one will save you 20%. Link to website. https://www.outdoorclass.com/

[mikeman20]

Wanna let me know how that elk101 program is? I heard its basically a bunch of stuff you could get off the internet for free elsewhere. But if it's actually good, i'd try it out.

I found it super useful, especially about wind directions from morning to night, and strategy based on that. Unless you're a pro, or have a good idea of calling strategy, wind strategy (beyond dont be upwind), then id recommend it for sure. Ya its $100, but thats not even a full tank of gas these days.

[TheObserver]

Wanna let me know how that elk101 program is? I heard its basically a bunch of stuff you could get off the internet for free elsewhere. But if it's actually good, i'd try it out.

For me reading the books I bought, scouring the internet, then quickly but not thoroughly going through most of Elk101 at last minute, nothing compared to being out there and studying first hand, but all these things helped for sure and what they did is made me realize some things and connect dots from first hand observation WAY quicker than I perhaps would have if I may have not read it or heard it before hand.

Like Bullreaper says it puts a lot of info in one place which is pretty important to me, things can get overwhelming fast when I have too many things on the go and so much information to absorb in such little time and have to obtain it from multiple sources. Right now i'm getting into setting up all my own compound bow equipment/maintenance (should have started doing this a long time ago) and it is a lot easier if the info is all in one place.

I would say it is worth it, it is good material for sure and touches on basically everything from basics which you may or may not know not sure how new of a hunter you are, to stuff you probably didn't even think about. I wouldn't take the whole program as gospel and you may not agree with everything, I didn't, and you should hear things from others too, but with that said it is good and if you got 80 or 100 bucks to spare I would recommend it.

[TheObserver]

Man, sweet after two nights of practice I can already make Cow calls pretty good ones too!

I like the domes for sure, I can already tell though Bugle's are going to be a struggle

[Bugle M In]

Single and double reeds are easier to start off with.
A single reed is all you need for cow calls, you don’t really need one that is specifically designed that say cow/calf.
All you need to know is, the different pitch of a cow, one that is in heat or a calf in distress.
You need to know how to mew vs their short, and I mean short/ quick, here I am or we are over hear reply.

The double reed is probably the easiest for starting to do bull calls.
Honestly, a single is just too light a rubber for me and I just blow it out, and certainly was never able to get a 3 or 4 octave scale produced that is so generically common when some elk call or better said, some game calls can produce.
The first note you use basically no tongue pressure, and eventually you use your throat to voice in that raspy low tone note.
Then just practice achieving a higher note on its own.
Then the next note above it, again, on its own.
Then the next note, even higher, on its own.

Once you can achieve each of the notes on its own, then you can roll them all together.
My opinion, the key to success versus giving up is to achieve each note independently first!!!

I feel those that try to do the whole call all at once tend to struggle longer, and quite often give up.
Then once you have rolled them ( or better said, stepped them together), you can work on a huge range of combinations.
From low to high, high to low etc etc.
And YouTube certainly has a ton of stuff to see the different calls combinations and lip bawling etc.
And I listen particularly close to real bulls in all the hunting videos out there.

[BRrooster]

What would anyone suggest for a "smaller" hunter. My daughter said she would like to learn how to bugle. She already has a couple of
hand held calls for cow calling. Or would we have to buy some calls and just "cut them to fit".

[TheObserver]

What would anyone suggest for a "smaller" hunter. My daughter said she would like to learn how to bugle. She already has a couple of
hand held calls for cow calling. Or would we have to buy some calls and just "cut them to fit".

I was just at the store and seen one from Phelps called a "mini blue" I think it was and it was small like Kids/Womens small.

Rocky Mountain calls makes one called a "Mini Master", that fits Women and Kids better.

Both of these are Diaphragm calls

[Bugle M In]

I am not a fan of Primos as stated, but they do make diaphragms with the plastic done as well and I find them shaped on the small side, by a long shot compared to Carltons.
I think they are certainly the right size for junior sized folks.
The some is not necessary obviously, but I think it’s a big bonus for mouth placement and comfort for someone starting out and helps with the fear factor some folks have that they think they are going to choke on them by accidentally swallowing it while chuckling.

The ones mentioned above might work also, I just don’t have experience with them.

[TheObserver]

Okay so I officially made some Bugles tonight, however sh!tty some of them may of sounded hahaha. Actually a few sounded like an Elk

This video is by far the best explained I have found for anyone that is also learning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VITaRJNVuyQ

[Bugle M In]

You would be surprised how awful my dad could sound at times.
He could have inconsistent days, he only used the power bugle and if his band was screwed up, look out.
Yet he still managed to bugle them in.
One thing was for certain, he never had to worry about bugling in other hunters!
On the other hand, probably a good thing.
I had plenty of prime time hunts stop because of bringing hunters in and then shooting the shit with them for an hour when I should have been hunting.

[TheObserver]

You would be surprised how awful my dad could sound at times.
He could have inconsistent days, he only used the power bugle and if his band was screwed up, look out.
Yet he still managed to bugle them in.
One thing was for certain, he never had to worry about bugling in other hunters!
On the other hand, probably a good thing.
I had plenty of prime time hunts stop because of bringing hunters in and then shooting the shit with them for an hour when I should have been hunting.

That's what I don't like about the power bugle and deluxe cow talk, I can make really good sound out of them but the bands I find dry out fast and can shrivel with some use in dry weather making them sound less than desirable and getting the band back to where I want it on the bugle doesn't always go as planned quick. One of the many reasons i'm startin on the diaphragms early.

[Bugle M In]

Always make sure you have a few backup diaphragms.
Easy to lose, fall out of pocket etc.
And if you are using them a fair bit in a day over a week, they get soggy but also the layers of layer get stuck together and don’t perform as well.
If I don’t lose any, 2 will do per week of hunting, imo.