Colder Winter

[BearSniper]

www.cbc.ca

Report out this morning from Environment Canada that we're going to have a much colder winter. In fact, it'll be the coldest in 15 years from December to February all across Canada. :oops:

I wonder how this will affect the animal populations , particularly further north.

Other HBC members have reported bad winter kills in previous years:?

Hope its not too bad. I guess we'll just have to see.

[4pointer91]

Hopefully it won't be good for the pine beetle!

[whitetailsheds]

This is hilarious considering the winter we had up here in Dawson Creek LAST year!!!!

[Chuck]

Ditto on the beetles. As for the game animals - well winter is never kind to them imo, but I think they can tolerate the cold provided they can get enough good nourishment, so I'd sooner see them cold than up to their necks in snow and thus immobilized.

[sparkymacker]

There must be some mistake? We are about to ruin our ecomomy by spending billions of dollars to avert Global Warming! Somebody better get Al Gore involved to correct this erroneous report!

[todbartell]

Id trade colder weather for less snow. I hate deep snow

[daycort]

They base this colder then normal weather on an average i am guessing. So it will probably be like 1 to 2 degrees colder for the average daily high temps. Just my opinion.

[Eichelherr]

you know its bad when it snows in the lower mainland.....
________
marijuana seed (http://marijuanaseeds.org/)

[KevinB]

They base this colder then normal weather on an average i am guessing. So it will probably be like 1 to 2 degrees colder for the average daily high temps. Just my opinion.

Yup...right from the article:

[Although it won't necessarily be "the winter from hell or face-numbing wind chills every time," Phillips said temperature-wise, "we could have conditions that would be perhaps three-quarters or a degree colder than normal."]

If by some strange chance our temperatures ended up just following what the normal averages were every day, except constantly a degree colder, we'd all be saying how warm the winter was, since all we really remember is the big cold snaps. Right now in Kamloops we are 8 degrees colder than normal, but by Tuesday we'll be 9 degrees warmer than normal...the "average" for these few days works out to pretty close to normal, but will we remember them as being cold or warm??:? Averages aren't usually what we notice.

Also I think snow conditions (not just depth) and food quality will have more of an impact on ungulates than absolute temperatures.

[TPK]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see what we get. As for the "Beatle", the war was lost years ago, there is no hope period. We are in salvage mode for as long as the wood is good ... which isn't going to be all that long.

[Ubertuber]

There must be some mistake? We are about to ruin our ecomomy by spending billions of dollars to avert Global Warming! Somebody better get Al Gore involved to correct this erroneous report!
LOL, I thought the effect of GW was out of whack weather in different parts of the world at different times (kinda like we're seeing?). Surely you're a bit more learned than this? Don't get me wrong, I'm no GW bandwagon jumper, but at least get your facts right.:biggrin:

That said, die beetle die!

[sparkymacker]

LOL, I thought the effect of GW was out of whack weather in different parts of the world at different times (kinda like we're seeing?). Surely you're a bit more learned than this? Don't get me wrong, I'm no GW bandwagon jumper, but at least get your facts right.:biggrin:

That said, die beetle die!

Hmmm....let me get this right...Global Warming means colder weather? :eek:

[dawn2dusk]

It is supposed to snow here in VIctoria this weekend. Keep your children and pets inside. Try to stay of the roads. Hopefully there arent too many casualities and the provincial emergency program will see us through.

Fellow islanders - Good luck and may god be with you this weekend. ;-)

[BearSniper]

Oh well

Just thought I'd mention it .

I can't explain why they came to the conclusion, but the lead Climatologist;
David Phillips, has a pretty good track record and is widely respected.

The weather is a very strange and wonderful thing.:?

I remember in 1988, Yellowstone park had the worst August forest fires ever. 5000 men and bombers couldn't do a thing. Then the next day 10 cm of snow put everything out.

I know nature takes care of herself, but I couldn't help thinking about the bad deer kill in region 7 a few years ago.

[Ubertuber]

Hmmm....let me get this right...Global Warming means colder weather? :eek:My understanding is, it's not as simple as that;-).
Warmer atmosphere makes for for a more turbulent weather systems all around the world, not just warmer. So different areas will have more dynamic weather (colder, warmer, windier, wetter, drier) than normal. So just because it's colder in one area one year doesn't mean it will be the next year.
Again, I'm no GW freakout guy, but debunking it because they are calling for a colder winter tends to be merely a right wing talking point.
Heh, all that and I never saw Gore's movie.
Help, I think I listen to the radio too much:-(

[Will]

So if Modern man is causing Global Warming what brought about the end of the last ICE Age some 10,000 years ago ?

Obviously the Earth has experienced warming and cooling trends far longer then Man has been around to affect such things.

Too many Cavemen with big bonfires I guess ? :lol:

[lip_ripper00]

[quote=Will;213369]So if Modern man is causing Global Warming what brought about the end of the last ICE Age some 10,000 years ago ?



dinosaur poo, the methane gas thing;-)

[Hank Hunter]

Yep, global warming. We are all going to burn in hell

[hunter1947]

I hope that the snow hits the hi elevation and leaves the lower for less snow ,will keep an eye on it for sure.:roll:

[Ubertuber]

So if Modern man is causing Global Warming what brought about the end of the last ICE Age some 10,000 years ago ?

Obviously the Earth has experienced warming and cooling trends far longer then Man has been around to affect such things.

Too many Cavemen with big bonfires I guess ? :lol:
Will, after reading lots of your posts, I know you're not that obtuse.;-)
Everyone knows the earth goes though warming and cooling periods, the GW crowd maintain it's the present rate that the atmosphere is warming that is the concern, not the fact that it is warming.
Me, I belong to the palm trees in Canada society as we Canadians have the most to benefit in a warmer world, so I say bring it on:cool:

I agree with mpotzold, "There are too many contingencies in weather forecasting (especially long term).".

[Will]

Will, after reading lots of your posts, I know you're not that obtuse.;-)

Thesaurus time again.........:lol: :wink:

Actually I fully appreciate the fact that MAN is screwing up the earth via our Poisons, pollution etc.
I just think certain Folks have built careers out of the little chicken sky is falling fear mongering........they have dubbed Global Warming ?

At the current rate of global warming......what's the current guestimate .03% average over the last 100 years ?

The annual global temps vary more then that year to year so how can they even begin to "guestimate things" ?
The Glaciers have been receding for far longer then we've been around to cause it....... & I see this moving to the Off Topic :wink:

As to the rate of it.......What's the diff if Vancouver gets covered in water in a 100 years or a thousand ?
Eitherway I doubt people will be washed away in the rising torrent.

[p&p]

Cold Wont Kill The Animals ! The Deep Snow Will We Should All Pray For Clear & Cold For The Animals Sake.as Users Of The Resorce We Can Also Help By Feeding In Areas We Can Reach If Its Going To Be Bad. Lets Help Our Game Survive By Feeding, It Works, Ive Done It. By The Looks Of Our Photo Gallery All Of You Guys Know Where To Put A Few Bales Of Timmothy Or Alfalfa Its Not Like We Cant Afford It !! Each Of Our Guns Can Buy A Truck Load Of Feed. If Concerned Help Out !! Do It For Your Future Hat Rack.

[dana]

"Cold Wont Kill The Animals ! The Deep Snow Will We Should All Pray For Clear & Cold For The Animals Sake."

Actually, this statement is a little off the mark. When it's cold, animals burn way more calories just too stay alive than what they take in. Deep snow and warm conditions isn't overly hard on the animals. As the calorie output and the calorie intake can be maintained at a healthy level. Now, combine deep snow and cold and you have a recipe for disaster.

[BCLongshot]

Global warming and Al Gore along with Michael Moore and David Suzuki. Proof that people will always buy junk from cheesehead fast talkin' salesman.

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING


Oh ya I forgot we have "I'm gonna cry" Stephen Dion

[Bow Walker]

Coldest/wetest winter in the last 15 years? Apparently so - according to Environment Canada.

Right now it's snowing hard in Victoria but nothing out here on the seashore. Nice, eh?

[Will]

Snowing off and on here today....light flurries.
Supposed to get a dump here tommorrow though, I should be balls deep in Muley Country by then:cool:

As to Global Warming.........

The Global Warming Folly




by Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D., Ph.O., and D.Sc., who is a professor at the Central Laboratory for Radiologi-cal Protection in Warsaw. A multidisciplinary scientist, he has studied glacier ice samples from around the world, analyzing traces of heavy metals and radionuclides. He is well known as an expert on radiation effects, and has served as the chairman of the UNSCEAR (United Nations Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation). Among his previous articles in 21st Century Science & Technology is "Ice Core Data Show No Carbon Dioxide Increase, " Spring 1997, p. 42.
Despite billions of dollars and millions of propaganda headlines, the global warming prophesied by the climate modelling industry is not scientifically real




The amount spent on climate studies worldwide has now reached the astonishingly high level of about $5 billion per year. In the United States alone, more than $2 billion is spent annually for climate studies, not including the costs of satellites, ships, and laboratory construction. Climatologists have obtained this immense amount of funding by creating the vision of a man-made planetary climate catastrophe.
In the 1970s and the 1980s, computer models of climate prophesied a doubling of the carbon dioxide (CO2) content in the atmosphere during the next 6O years. The greenhouse effect of this CO2 increase, together with that of other greenhouse gases released by human beings into the atmosphere – CH4, N2O, CFC-11 (freon), and CFC-12 – was supposed to increase the average global surface air temperature by 5°C. In polar regions, the increase was projected to be 10°C. Later, in the 1990s, climatologists truncated the computer model estimates of the man-made increase of global temperature by the year 2100, first to 3,3°C and then to 2°C.
Climate warming caused by man-made greenhouse gases, is usually presented as a gloomy catastrophe that will induce the mass extinction of animals and plants, epidemics of contagious and parasitic diseases, droughts and floods, and even invasions of mutated insects resistent to insecticides. Melting glaciers are predicted to raise sea level by 3.67 meters, flooding islands, densely inhabited coastal areas, and great metropolises. There will be mass migrations and a host of other social and environmental effects – always detrimental, never beneficial.
According to one American climatologist, the "scare-them-to-death" approach seems to be the best way to get money for climate studies. Dr. Stephen Schneider, a leading prophet of man-made climate warming, stated this bluntly:
"To capture the public imagination... we have to... make simplified dramatic statements, and little mention of any doubts one might have.... Each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective and being honest".
The IPCC reports, which have become bibles for bureaucrats and environmentalist fanatics, ac-cuse modern civilization of being responsible for global warming, and repeatedly state that they reflect a true "consensus" of the scientific community. This statement about consensus is totally false: The assessments, conclusions, and even the working method of the IPCC are criticized by numerous scientists today. A more accurate description of the current situation would not be consensus, but rathercontroversy. Science does not progress via a process of consensus, or voting. There was no "consensus" for Copernicus's idea, in his time, that the Earth orbited the Sun. Consensus is not needed in science; it is for politicians.

[bsa30-06]

you know its bad when it snows in the lower mainland.....


woke up to that white stuff this morning.

[SUAFOYT]

Global warming and Al Gore along with Michael Moore and David Suzuki. Proof that people will always buy junk from cheesehead fast talkin' salesman.

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING


Oh ya I forgot we have "I'm gonna cry" Stephen Dion

Nice try with that one but it just doesn't fly. When it comes right down to the short strokes, the peer reviewed data by the vast majority of scientists, those that aren't funded by big oil, agree that GW is a reality, and that it will be extremely difficult to turn around. The condition that Bear Sniper is referring to in his thread refers to the swings that we can all expect from now on. Your reference to a few people that have you have a hard on for won't change that. And when we get a report of a -30 day somewhere won't mean that GW is a myth or conspiracy. A few days of cold temperature is called WEATHER, not a trend.

[horshur]

Nice try with that one but it just doesn't fly. When it comes right down to the short strokes, the peer reviewed data by the vast majority of scientists, those that aren't funded by big oil, agree that GW is a reality, and that it will be extremely difficult to turn around. The condition that Bear Sniper is referring to in his thread refers to the swings that we can all expect from now on. Your reference to a few people that have you have a hard on for won't change that. And when we get a report of a -30 day somewhere won't mean that GW is a myth or conspiracy. A few days of cold temperature is called WEATHER, not a trend.

What abnormal swings have happened? Think of the absurdity of it--we the scientist are declaring global climate change. Duh!!!! the climate of earth has never been static.

[5 spike]

in campbell tonight 40 centimeters and still snowing hard, cleard the roof of the trailer twice today. one of my hunting buddy,s said they were stuck on the low end of the mountain that,s a first.that area is at sea level and they are in a nice 4 wheel drive.

[BCLongshot]

SUAFOYT

Come on how old are you ?

The worlds climate has always been changing. Did the bloody cavemen act like this when the last Dino was gone ? Not all of them.

[hunter1947]

50 centimeters hear this morning at my home in black creek at -8 Chttp://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif.

[oldtimer]

Was just a balmy minus 25 here on Saturday morning and now it is a sweltering minus 16. Gotta be minus 40 to do any damage to the beetles and it has to last for a while. Mike

[SUAFOYT]

SUAFOYT

Come on how old are you ?

The worlds climate has always been changing. Did the bloody cavemen act like this when the last Dino was gone ? Not all of them.

Old enough to know that when everyone with more than two brain cells to rub together tell you your fly is open but you refuse to look and keep saying it isn't, then no matter what the evidence shows some people will believe what they want to believe without having a look. People such as this will say the data is bad or flawed and that scientists are promoting GW to line their pockets. First of all, there is no such thing as bad data. There is only data. When people say peer reviewed data, that is not some snobbish way of saying that you or anyone else is ignorant or stupid. It means that the evidence passes the test of people in a certain field of expertise analyzing the evidence that is available and then agreeing or not agreeing that the data supports the conclusion. While we can all make a joke in the bar about pointy headed intellectuals, the vast majority of people in the related fields have come to the conclusion that GW is a reality. I doubt very much that if the majority of oncologists in Vancouver told you that you had cancer, but then a vet said that you didn't, that you would believe the vet. After all the vet has medical training as well. When the evidence started to come in that asbestos was a risk to those that worked with it, the industry was quick to say that it wasn't so. And who can forget those tobacco execs that stood before congress and swore that they all believed that there was no evidence that cigarette smoking caused lung cancer. As for your last statement re the cavemen, wow, you must be really old to know what happened back then. If I remember my grade school history, the dino's disappeared long before the first of our ancestors appeared. No one disputes your statement that the world's climate doesn't change. It's the speed at which it's occurring that some just won't believe. As far as some of those that are the messengers go, I'm not a particular fan of Suzuki either. But when it comes to him versus the George Bush types, I'll go with the PhD, not some guy that can't get the word nookyuhlar right.

[Seeadler]

Cold Wont Kill The Animals ! The Deep Snow Will We Should All Pray For Clear & Cold For The Animals Sake.as Users Of The Resorce We Can Also Help By Feeding In Areas We Can Reach If Its Going To Be Bad. Lets Help Our Game Survive By Feeding, It Works, Ive Done It. By The Looks Of Our Photo Gallery All Of You Guys Know Where To Put A Few Bales Of Timmothy Or Alfalfa Its Not Like We Cant Afford It !! Each Of Our Guns Can Buy A Truck Load Of Feed. If Concerned Help Out !! Do It For Your Future Hat Rack.

Cold sucks energy from the animals, snow makes them more vulnerable to predators.

Feeding is a bad idea. Deer cannot handle such a change of diet. Just as you cannot switch cattle over to grain in one day.

[sparkymacker]

Old enough to know that when everyone with more than two brain cells to rub together tell you your fly is open but you refuse to look and keep saying it isn't, then no matter what the evidence shows some people will believe what they want to believe without having a look. People such as this will say the data is bad or flawed and that scientists are promoting GW to line their pockets. First of all, there is no such thing as bad data. There is only data. When people say peer reviewed data, that is not some snobbish way of saying that you or anyone else is ignorant or stupid. It means that the evidence passes the test of people in a certain field of expertise analyzing the evidence that is available and then agreeing or not agreeing that the data supports the conclusion. While we can all make a joke in the bar about pointy headed intellectuals, the vast majority of people in the related fields have come to the conclusion that GW is a reality. I doubt very much that if the majority of oncologists in Vancouver told you that you had cancer, but then a vet said that you didn't, that you would believe the vet. After all the vet has medical training as well. When the evidence started to come in that asbestos was a risk to those that worked with it, the industry was quick to say that it wasn't so. And who can forget those tobacco execs that stood before congress and swore that they all believed that there was no evidence that cigarette smoking caused lung cancer. As for your last statement re the cavemen, wow, you must be really old to know what happened back then. If I remember my grade school history, the dino's disappeared long before the first of our ancestors appeared. No one disputes your statement that the world's climate doesn't change. It's the speed at which it's occurring that some just won't believe. As far as some of those that are the messengers go, I'm not a particular fan of Suzuki either. But when it comes to him versus the George Bush types, I'll go with the PhD, not some guy that can't get the word nookyuhlar right.

David Suzuki is a self serving asshole, I don't believe a word that comes out of his mouth

[brotherjack]

Old enough to know that when everyone with more than two brain cells to rub together tell you

Ummm, there's a whole lot of people with a lot more than two brain cells to rub together that can (and have/do) present great mountains of evidence to refute the "Climate Change" theories as espoused by Al Gore and the like. Nobody is saying that the climate doesn't change - there is lots of evidence that it has changed, and changed dramatically over the centuries. What is of great dispute, is the idea that people are both the cause and the (potential) solution to whatever the current changes in view happen to be. If too many cars was the problem, then somewhere there should exist a credible scientific paper that can connect the dots in at least some vague way of warming and fossil fuel usage. There is no such paper, because no connectible dots exist. After the hot spell around the 1930's, The world was cooling off right up until 1975, and the scientist used to decry the coming ice age. This is why lots of computer models are involved in research which leads to "The Sky Is Falling" conclusions, because you can make a computer say any dang thing you want - as a mater of fact, a computer is incapable of saying anything else other than what it was programmed to say.

As I have repeatedly stated, I've done a good deal of research on this, and that's how I came to my conclusion that there is no such "Climate Change" crisis as is being widely espoused these days. I've done my homework - now I challenge someone, anyone, to go find me some credible evidence for "Climate Change" as preached by Al Gore and the like (by which I mean, go get me some scientific research papers, chock full of data, solid logical, supportable conclusions, and the methodology as to how they reached those conclusions - not some fear mongering CNN rhetoric or a 10 paragraph blurb on sciencetoday.com), and I'll give it a long hard read. If there exists some real evidence for "Climate Change" as preached by Al Gore and the like - then I will happily change my tune, and use my powers of reason and logic (such as they are) to rant against the 'deniers' instead of the (IMHO) wing-nuts who are hell bent to spend half the world's GDP on something that (IMHO) is a total piece of crap theory. I'm serious. I'm a very well educated hardcore nerd from way way back - I have no fear of scientific papers with big words and complex concepts in them - go find me one.

Now, back to your regular schedule whining and moaning about the cold and snow.

:)

[SUAFOYT]

"now I challenge someone, anyone, to go find me some credible evidence for "Climate Change" as preached by Al Gore and the like (by which I mean, go get me some scientific research papers, chock full of data, solid logical, supportable conclusions, and the methodology as to how they reached those conclusions - not some fear mongering CNN rhetoric or a 10 paragraph blurb on sciencetoday.com), and I'll give it a long hard read"
BrotherJack



http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-wg1.htm
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/technical-papers.htm
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/technical-papers.htm
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/technical-papers.htm

There you go for a start BrotherJack. If you come back within the next 6 months and call bullshit, then you didn't give it a "long hard read" as you put it. These are chock full of data, and the link to the methodology is there for you. Not that I'm a cynic or anything, but if I didn't know better, I get the sense that you've already got your mind made up. But there you go dude.

[brotherjack]

There you go for a start BrotherJack. If you come back within the next 6 months and call bullshit, then you didn't give it a "long hard read" as you put it. These are chock full of data, and the link to the methodology is there for you. Not that I'm a cynic or anything, but if I didn't know better, I get the sense that you've already got your mind made up. But there you go dude.

Believe it or not, I will give these a good look. I don't expect it to take six months (B.S. stinks right from the start, usually), but I will read it with an open mind. And yes, I do have my mind made up, based on everything I know to date, and I really have done some good reading on the subject - but I have changed my mind before.

Stay tuned... :)

[Gateholio]

As far as some of those that are the messengers go, I'm not a particular fan of Suzuki either. But when it comes to him versus the George Bush types, I'll go with the PhD, not some guy that can't get the word nookyuhlar right.

What exactly are Suzukis qualifications in regard to global warming? IIRC about 20 years ago he was talking about another ice age.

[BCLongshot]

Lmao X 1,000,000

[horshur]

What exactly are Suzukis qualifications in regard to global warming? IIRC about 20 years ago he was talking about another ice age.

Genetics of fruit flies.

[hunter1947]

It's really flooding at my house this morning ,been raining all night +3 http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif.

[boxhitch]

The seasonal weather in BC is effected far more by ocean currents than sun spots. El Nino and La Nina (sp?) are regularily changing our weather patterns. We happen to be in a strong LaNina cycle, colder currents than 'normal'.