How’s the EK elk hunting going this year?

[Bugle M In]

Asking because I did not and will not be going this year.
So, living vicariously they those if you who have/are.
Hows it been?
More elk and legal bulls to choose from?
Slow or good action.
Or not really picking up in #’s of elk overall or improving?
Not really seeing any hunting posts on here and I am out of the game this year.
Big concern is I don’t know yet if it is permanently???

[jshansen]

We hunted east kootenays mid september, found elk but bulls we did find were quiet, only got one solid opportunity and he chickened out at the last minute and left us meatless.

[Bugle M In]

We hunted east kootenays mid september, found elk but bulls we did find were quiet, only got one solid opportunity and he chickened out at the last minute and left us meatless.
Yes, you might be meatless and elk meat is great.
But. Would rate the hunt as still a success, as atleast you had a kick at the can.
Past number of years all u can pull out are 5pts, get them out in the open or to close range, so I always feel it’s a success as I still have what it takes.
But either the 5pts have cows with them, so fairly assured there is no 6pt around.
Not at that moment in time.
Or missed opportunity by a few days on a legal one in the area.
But certainly not multiple legal opportunities the past number of years for a 7 day hunt.

A terrible hunt is not seeing anything.
To me, that is truly an unsuccessful hunt.

Next year!

[Lobot Doog]

Had some really good success in reg 7. Bulls were screaming like crazy last week. Got a 328 inch bull first hour of our first day.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8819&stc=1

[35rem]

Hunted for 2 weeks, friends for 5 weeks. Seen cows, had a nice 5 or 6 pointer on the camera (bad angle), but did not connect and neither did other guys in the area. Sunny and 28 degrees does not help.
Did get a decent 3 point WT, as consolation price.

[huntingfamily]

Some friends went elk hunting recently in the EK and got 3 bulls. Had some GBear encounters too.
They got home on Sept 22.

[Bugle M In]

Had some really good success in reg 7. Bulls were screaming like crazy last week. Got a 328 inch bull first hour of our first day.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8819&stc=1
Congrats,
Nice bull.
I would be lying if I said I wasn’t jealous about all that elk meat!

[Bugle M In]

Had some really good success in reg 7. Bulls were screaming like crazy last week. Got a 328 inch bull first hour of our first day.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8819&stc=1
Congrats,
Nice bull.
I would be lying if I said I wasn’t jealous about all that elk meat!

[savage10]

Went on my first ever elk hunt, and first time ever in the EKs. Was mainly in 4-3. Got a few responses to me calls which was an amazing experience. Saw a dozen + elk but only saw 1 bull which was not legal. If he was legal he would be in the freezer right now, he was with his cows and they hung around for quite awhile in plain sight of us. We were there 24th-1st. Can’t wait to go back next year.

[Bugle M In]

Hunted for 2 weeks, friends for 5 weeks. Seen cows, had a nice 5 or 6 pointer on the camera (bad angle), but did not connect and neither did other guys in the area. Sunny and 28 degrees does not help.
Did get a decent 3 point WT, as consolation price.
The first half of all my hunts years ago were a lot cooler, I think they were the best years but I also think there were more elk.
The last half of the years hunting elk have certainly been warmer and it really can make for long days, but did find there is still action early day late night but late night is almost too late, and the morning hunts a lot shorter.

I think sometimes you might have elk around, and all that is missing is one rowdy one in the bunch.
And then elsewhere, same conditions, you find one who is.

[KodiakHntr]

Got into a few a few days in a row, messed with 5 bulls within 1000 yards of each other, called in some spikes and dueces, closed some distance to 440 yards on a stomper bull in the back yard but had no shot when he was in his 25 cows. Triple tapped a nice 6pt the next morning. Wasn’t the big bull from the night before, but not bad.

Similar numbers to previous years, took about the same amount of time to cut a tag as normal.

[Elkaddict]

It was a fun start to the year for me. It started out pretty quiet, no bugling, and nothing but cows, calves, and spikes for the first couple of days. The good news is, there seems to be a really good crop of calves this year. I’d say close to half the cows I saw had calves with them. Bodes well for the future if they survive the winter.

Around about the 21st things started to get interesting. The bulls weren’t all that vocal until coaxed, but if you were close they were eager. I was fortunate enough to have the opportunity to play with 4 separate bulls in 5 or 6 days. 3 were solo, one of which came in to 6 or 7yds, another, a little more cautious, to 50 or so ( neither one legal), and the third into 10. The last one I have video of, as I thought he was a non legal bull I’d been playing with previously. My phone got dumped real quick when I realized he was a different , legal bull. He spooked, turned and trotted back out to 60-70 yds or so. I got my head out of my arse long enough to scream at him one last time. It was enough to turn him back to see what he missed. It was a fatal mistake. He gave me enough time to confirm 6 on both sides and then it was game over. I was very fortunate:oops:.

The fourth bull (actually 3rd chronologically) was a herd bull. He was pissed, and I could actually pull him away from his girls a ways before he’d trot back and rake the crap out of a couple of small trees. We played this game three or four times and I had him as close as 50 yds. but I just couldn’t find 6pts on either side.

We came out to get the meat into a cooler, a little too warm to hang at camp. Within a day or two of me getting home a bull lit up just below our property. He’s been screaming morning and night, sometimes all night long for almost two weeks, but has been pretty quiet the last couple days. He’s a smart bull, he’s not only on private land, but arguably too close to residential structures to hunt with a firearm.

Sorry to hear you’re not able to make it out, I know it’s no substitute, but maybe this tale will help scratch the itch.

[E-J Kooij]

Got a bull fired up in the Princeton area. On public land was crazy but never got a look at him. We went up to where he was and confirmed it wasn’t just another Doug flutey, shit and tracks all over.

[Greenthumbed]

It’s been a tough season so far. The bulls are not vocal and are staying in the high country. I have had a couple close encounters with fours and five in under 30 yards. I’ve seen one legal bull so far. He was at 7500’. I gave chase, but when I got up there I only found his 4 point buddy. It probably would have been too much of a mission to pack an elk out of where I was. Maybe it was a good thing I didn’t find him.
this weekend I hunted everyday. Saw fresh sign and heard cows and one lazy bugle, but when we got into the area where we thought they were bedded they had vanished.
All our regular spot that we know hold elk are dry. Tough hunting. Lots of competition from other hunters.

[HarryToolips]

My partner and I went to my high country spot where I harvested one last year: this year no elk were up there for whatever reason (maybe less precip in Aug and early Sept compared to last year = more dried up forage?).. so we descended and found them lower...even though it seemed wer were right on top of them (fresh sign everywhere in non pressured areas) they were all quiet until our last 2 days of hunting: we got eyes on one that decided to be vocal but it was a 5 point...then, last evening of our hunt, we had the whole herd fired up, including the herd bull, and we could tell from his tracks that he was a big boy..bugling back and forth and with light fading, he would not come out of the timber, same with one other bull that was screaming at us and the herd bull....the herd of cows were also vocal that night...we pulled out with the fading light, went back the next morning just before we had to leave and they had moved on unfortunately, but that's elk hunting..

[Steeleco]

I just got home from 10 days with my son, and Elkhound. Was a great trip. He got a nice 5x6 and a 3pt white tail in 4-03. Was lots of elk seen in the 1st few days but all very quiet. Lots of 100mph WT bucks too. Couldn't walk anywhere in the woods without make shit tons of noise. Walked an far too many game trails and then only stepped off those into the meadows. Friday last the woods came alive. Bulls screaming everywhere. It was our/my first dedicated Elk trip. It won't be my last. The rush when those big boys get screaming is like no other hunting experience I've been on. Didn't shoot a thing of my own, but I didn't need too. Still a great trip.

The sad part of this trip, I found a huge 5pt bull deep in the woods. He'd been dead a week or more. Bullet hole in the left shoulder, left to rot. Talking to the other hunters that were not snobs and didn't mind a chin wag. We learned the CO service at that point had ceased 18 illegal bulls, some as small as 3pt. WTF people. I myself was bulls of all kinds and 2 that may well have been legal. But I couldn't tell for sure. They're' still there!!

Got this guy on the game cam. Was screaming up a storm this past Saturday. Had to come home the next day :(
The date stamp is way off, changed when I changed the batteries. Not bad for elcheapo game cam!!
https://imgur.com/Uuv1pph

[J_T]

Our hunt was great.
Calf/cow ratio was really high. Overall elk numbers were higher than in the past. Grizzly, black, cougar, wolf numbers were down from previous years. The BOS is the best opportunity going.
Called in a number of bulls. Or rather, pushed them until they turned. My son came to draw on two bulls at 18 yards. Didn't release the arrow. Played a great 'sounding' bull for a couple of hours one evening. Got within 40 yards of another on a tough hike. Had an epic morning with about 6 bulls screaming at each other, all, very close to each other and myself.
Got lots of great Trail cam pics of nice bulls.
Had my Dad at 93 in camp. He was able to take a couple of grouse. Rekindled his hunter spirit. The flame has not gone out.

[Husky7mm]

Our hunt was great.
Calf/cow ratio was really high. Overall elk numbers were higher than in the past. Grizzly, black, cougar, wolf numbers were down from previous years. The BOS is the best opportunity going.
Called in a number of bulls. Or rather, pushed them until they turned. My son came to draw on two bulls at 18 yards. Didn't release the arrow. Played a great 'sounding' bull for a couple of hours one evening. Got within 40 yards of another on a tough hike. Had an epic morning with about 6 bulls screaming at each other, all, very close to each other and myself.
Got lots of great Trail cam pics of nice bulls.
Had my Dad at 93 in camp. He was able to take a couple of grouse. Rekindled his hunter spirit. The flame has not gone out.


That is pretty awesome!!

[Husky7mm]

Had some really good success in reg 7. Bulls were screaming like crazy last week. Got a 328 inch bull first hour of our first day.http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8819&stc=1

Sweet looking bull. Must of felt good to pack that head out. Thanks for sharing.

[Bugle M In]

Thanks for the posts folks.
It was not easy to be forced to sit this season out, but worse, not sure if this might end up being permanent.
Appreciate the updates, helps someone like me stay in the loop regardless of situation.

Believe me, I know all to well about just not finding a legal 6 pt, but having action from 5pt or smaller.
For me, where I hunt I am surprised how many times now I have called in big 5pt bulls, even getting them away from their cows, to check me out or tell me to stay away.
But, that has been the issue as well.
These 5pts seem to be the biggest bull on the block when I am there.
They have the cows.
And am not really seeing an increase at all!
I have seen the odd 6 pt taken up there, and have missed out just doing to timing on my hunt week vs the succesful hunters week.
But those few who have taken a 6pt state the same thing, not many elk and very hard to find a legal one.
And they work up there 365.

And the big head scratcher was, the year before it went south was probably the best week I ever had.
Some huge bulls, with large groups of cows and lots of satellite bulls.
Come back the following year, and it’s been dismal ever since.

Glad to hear some areas are bouncing back.
The more they do, the better chance my area does.

Not happy to hear about all the dead 5pts however.
Keep sharing folks, as they think other elk hunters, especially newbs can get a feel of the challenges in elk hunting and thus keep going.

[high horse Hal]

Herd of a large scale elk survey happening this year in reg 4 ?
Won't help much if there are not clear target numbers

anyone have hunter harvest numbers for the last few years? by MU

[J_T]

Herd of a large scale elk survey happening this year in reg 4 ?
Won't help much if there are not clear target numbers

anyone have hunter harvest numbers for the last few years? by MU I do have the hunter harvest data going back to 1974. Although going way back is somewhat irrelevant.
There is a plan for a detailed elk count coming this winter. Yes, we need objectives, population numbers, bull/cow ratios, calf recruitment, habitat assessments (Carrying capacity) to utilize information/data to make informed decisions.
PM me an email and I can send you the harvest data. If you want.

[hunterdon]

Elk hunting in the Kootenays for me has pretty much been the same as the last 2 years. Spoke with other keen local elk hunters and their assessment of the past 2 years is basically the same for the past 2 years where I hunt. Which is.........

Numbers of elk (big bulls) has perhaps dropped, but only slightly in the lower areas. This can vary from area to area of course. Consensus is that where wolves move in, elk numbers drop. This is especially true in the high remote country away from civilization. Probably because the wolves pretty much have free rein without human intervention. Elk numbers in these higher areas according to accomplished local elk hunters has been hit quite hard in recent years. So hunting the lower hills is probably the better choice.

As for bugling bulls, they seemed to be a little later starting this year, but picked up greatly the last 2 weeks of September. The 3rd week being really hot this year, with lots of wandering bulls.

Many previously consistently successful elk hunters who usually get a bull every year has had low success these past 2 years. I'm guessing because they probably have been hitting the higher mountains which in the past has been good for them, but no longer.

As for me personally, I've taken a very nice 6 pointer each of these past 2 years. I solo hunt. Nice and quiet, just the way I like it.

[Bugle M In]

Your post^^^^^
is basically what I hear consistently as well.
Most successful hunters are taking bulls in lower lying areas where there seems to be better herd numbers.
And there is some benefit I. Knowing folks that may own the private land at times but bulls are also taken on crown.
I hunt the more remote and towards the higher elevation grounds for elk, and I know I should stop and seek elsewhere but the landscape There draws me back.
There are elk in there, but everyone who spends all their time daily in there working day the numbers are way down.
You can find a legal bull, but folks like the GO are t going to walk out with 2 groups of clients and 8 pack horses all with 6pts any longer.
To get 1 legal bull, every few groups in that high country is now considered a success.
And those that cut timber and have spent decades each day in the trench, especially thru the winter consistently tell me the impact wolves have had and some of the crazy shit they have seen.
And a lot of them don’t hunt, it’s just what they have seen.
I have become friends with a few of the guides over the years, and I fully believe them.
You see groups head in, 5 days later come out, with nothing but a lot of landscape photos.
Not only are the GO’s frustrated, but so are the clients!
And many times those clients walk over to my camp to shoot the shit and try to get info from me as to find out if the GO is just a bad one and if in my own, I am having way more action.
The answer for a good 10 years now is the same.
The GO was a good guy in my books, the guide he uses is extremely competent, but the fact is, the area is suffering from low elk #s, although there is plenty if feed and restricted hunting access, and fires, but for some reason the area just can’t pick itself up!?

I know there was a report, many years back now, by I think an established trapper/hunter, not sure what all his credentials were?
That stated wolves in the trench were going to have a devastating affect in the next 10 years at the time.
Even some maps of where he felt the biggest impacts would be, in zones of deep red to lighter shades of red etc.
The area I hunt was right in the worst of the bunch.
Its certainly played out that way, not just from but others that hunt the area or work it.

But there is never just one factor when it gets like that, imo.
Bad things that are hard to fix are usually always an accumulation of several factors.
I hope it gets figured out and also rectified for future generations to come!
I have some of my deepest fondest memories attained while hunting elk up there.
Snd I hope that others have that same opportunity as it truly is priceless and you can’t throw a dollar figure at it.

[LBM]

Our hunt was great.
Calf/cow ratio was really high. Overall elk numbers were higher than in the past. Grizzly, black, cougar, wolf numbers were down from previous years. The BOS is the best opportunity going.
Called in a number of bulls. Or rather, pushed them until they turned. My son came to draw on two bulls at 18 yards. Didn't release the arrow. Played a great 'sounding' bull for a couple of hours one evening. Got within 40 yards of another on a tough hike. Had an epic morning with about 6 bulls screaming at each other, all, very close to each other and myself.
Got lots of great Trail cam pics of nice bulls.
Had my Dad at 93 in camp. He was able to take a couple of grouse. Rekindled his hunter spirit. The flame has not gone out.

Bear, wolf, and cat numbers are down wonder whats causing that, Well actually pretty easy to figure out since there all down.
Nice to hear your father had a good time.

[HarryToolips]

I just got home from 10 days with my son, and Elkhound. Was a great trip. He got a nice 5x6 and a 3pt white tail in 4-03. Was lots of elk seen in the 1st few days but all very quiet. Lots of 100mph WT bucks too. Couldn't walk anywhere in the woods without make shit tons of noise. Walked an far too many game trails and then only stepped off those into the meadows. Friday last the woods came alive. Bulls screaming everywhere. It was our/my first dedicated Elk trip. It won't be my last. The rush when those big boys get screaming is like no other hunting experience I've been on. Didn't shoot a thing of my own, but I didn't need too. Still a great trip.

The sad part of this trip, I found a huge 5pt bull deep in the woods. He'd been dead a week or more. Bullet hole in the left shoulder, left to rot. Talking to the other hunters that were not snobs and didn't mind a chin wag. We learned the CO service at that point had ceased 18 illegal bulls, some as small as 3pt. WTF people. I myself was bulls of all kinds and 2 that may well have been legal. But I couldn't tell for sure. They're' still there!!

Got this guy on the game cam. Was screaming up a storm this past Saturday. Had to come home the next day :(
The date stamp is way off, changed when I changed the batteries. Not bad for elcheapo game cam!!
https://imgur.com/Uuv1pph

Glad you had a good trip... sad to hear about the illegally shot bulls, like I stated in the other elk thread, dumbasses need to smarten up or they're going to ruin it for all of us when they have to reduce or close seasons down if they're not meeting ministry objectives on bull:cow ratios... I wonder if part of the problem is could there be an influx of newer hunters that were given a pass through the CORE course too easily?

[j270wsm]

Ive lived in elkford my entire life. Killed my first bull in 99 when I was 18 my second bull when I was 20 and one every yr after that until 2yrs ago. There were many yrs where I was part of multiple successful elk hunts. Probably been part of 35-40 elk kills.
In my opinion, 2008-2012 was the peak of the elk population in the elk valley, we used to see multiple herds of 50-75elk every day going to and from work. Every mtn had a herd of elk on it. Some slides had game trails that you could see with the naked eye at 1000yds. It was an amazing time to be a die hard elk hunter.
Everything started changing around 2012-13. The ministry had given out a lot more cow elk tags, 5 points being shot, the griz and wolf populations seemed sky high and climbing, elk were being hit by vehicles/trains almost every day. Over the next few yrs we seen the elk population starting to plummet all the while the predator numbers were staying stable even with hunter and trappers killing wolves. The elk population has dropped to a point where the old elk trails are hard to recognize due to being overgrown. The slides are void of tan bodies mystically floating in and out of the alders and the echoes of bugles are rarely heard anymore…..
The sound of an elk crashing through the timber coming to my call, the smell of a rutting bull, the adrenaline…..it will forever be in my soul…..but due to the reasons above I have stopped hunting elk. Rather than bitch and complain about low elk numbers I have chosen to leave them alone for a few yrs. One of our local trappers has taken 100wolves out of the upper 1/2 of the fording valley over the last 20yrs and says he’s seeing less and less sign every yr. Hopefully the griz numbers will rapidly drop off and the elk will return, but until then I will leave them alone.

I am not a fan of closing seasons but It might be the best solution to help the herd start to rebuild.

[TheObserver]

I just got home from 10 days with my son, and Elkhound. Was a great trip. He got a nice 5x6 and a 3pt white tail in 4-03. Was lots of elk seen in the 1st few days but all very quiet. Lots of 100mph WT bucks too. Couldn't walk anywhere in the woods without make shit tons of noise. Walked an far too many game trails and then only stepped off those into the meadows. Friday last the woods came alive. Bulls screaming everywhere. It was our/my first dedicated Elk trip. It won't be my last. The rush when those big boys get screaming is like no other hunting experience I've been on. Didn't shoot a thing of my own, but I didn't need too. Still a great trip.

The sad part of this trip, I found a huge 5pt bull deep in the woods. He'd been dead a week or more. Bullet hole in the left shoulder, left to rot. Talking to the other hunters that were not snobs and didn't mind a chin wag. We learned the CO service at that point had ceased 18 illegal bulls, some as small as 3pt. WTF people. I myself was bulls of all kinds and 2 that may well have been legal. But I couldn't tell for sure. They're' still there!!

Got this guy on the game cam. Was screaming up a storm this past Saturday. Had to come home the next day :(
The date stamp is way off, changed when I changed the batteries. Not bad for elcheapo game cam!!
https://imgur.com/Uuv1pph

Man nice Bull on the cam! Looks similar to one that was on mine this year

[TheObserver]

Ive lived in elkford my entire life. Killed my first bull in 99 when I was 18 my second bull when I was 20 and one every yr after that until 2yrs ago. There were many yrs where I was part of multiple successful elk hunts. Probably been part of 35-40 elk kills.
In my opinion, 2008-2012 was the peak of the elk population in the elk valley, we used to see multiple herds of 50-75elk every day going to and from work. Every mtn had a herd of elk on it. Some slides had game trails that you could see with the naked eye at 1000yds. It was an amazing time to be a die hard elk hunter.
Everything started changing around 2012-13. The ministry had given out a lot more cow elk tags, 5 points being shot, the griz and wolf populations seemed sky high and climbing, elk were being hit by vehicles/trains almost every day. Over the next few yrs we seen the elk population starting to plummet all the while the predator numbers were staying stable even with hunter and trappers killing wolves. The elk population has dropped to a point where the old elk trails are hard to recognize due to being overgrown. The slides are void of tan bodies mystically floating in and out of the alders and the echoes of bugles are rarely heard anymore…..
The sound of an elk crashing through the timber coming to my call, the smell of a rutting bull, the adrenaline…..it will forever be in my soul…..but due to the reasons above I have stopped hunting elk. Rather than bitch and complain about low elk numbers I have chosen to leave them alone for a few yrs. One of our local trappers has taken 100wolves out of the upper 1/2 of the fording valley over the last 20yrs and says he’s seeing less and less sign every yr. Hopefully the griz numbers will rapidly drop off and the elk will return, but until then I will leave them alone.

Man that's just straight up sad to hear. Hopefully they start making a comeback. Was thinking about starting to scout Koots next year

I wish I started hunting them earlier, first year this year and it is absolutely something else hunting them! Albeit i'm sure nowhere near as intense or as many encounters as it sounds like years ago. One of the Coolest 6 weeks of my life this past bit, scouting all spring and summer was awesome too!

[Bugle M In]

Yup lots of productive places have gone to hell.
I fully understand that those that can get a lot of pre-scouting in and have the ability to really get into places where most can’t are still producing, but there are even some who say those remote areas are dropping off.
I see the same where I hunt MD.
Every November, the recruitment looks really good, but year aftef year the numbers seem to be dwindling and the bucks on the poles smaller and smaller.
Probably seen the smallest 4pt ever taken last year!
Still nice to see the odd nice bull around though.
If it’s got a sixth point, it’s dropping now.
I used to hear stories of letting them pass, not anymore!

[high horse Hal]

then you know the controversy over the attempt to purposefully reduce the herd numbers, the how and why.
I doubt numbers will ever be brought back to historical highs but also wonder what realistic target numbers would look like for good hunter satisfaction


Ive lived in elkford my entire life. Killed my first bull in 99 when I was 18 my second bull when I was 20 and one every yr after that until 2yrs ago. There were many yrs where I was part of multiple successful elk hunts. Probably been part of 35-40 elk kills.
In my opinion, 2008-2012 was the peak of the elk population in the elk valley, we used to see multiple herds of 50-75elk every day going to and from work. Every mtn had a herd of elk on it. Some slides had game trails that you could see with the naked eye at 1000yds. It was an amazing time to be a die hard elk hunter.
Everything started changing around 2012-13. The ministry had given out a lot more cow elk tags, 5 points being shot, the griz and wolf populations seemed sky high and climbing, elk were being hit by vehicles/trains almost every day. Over the next few yrs we seen the elk population starting to plummet all the while the predator numbers were staying stable even with hunter and trappers killing wolves. The elk population has dropped to a point where the old elk trails are hard to recognize due to being overgrown. The slides are void of tan bodies mystically floating in and out of the alders and the echoes of bugles are rarely heard anymore…..
The sound of an elk crashing through the timber coming to my call, the smell of a rutting bull, the adrenaline…..it will forever be in my soul…..but due to the reasons above I have stopped hunting elk. Rather than bitch and complain about low elk numbers I have chosen to leave them alone for a few yrs. One of our local trappers has taken 100wolves out of the upper 1/2 of the fording valley over the last 20yrs and says he’s seeing less and less sign every yr. Hopefully the griz numbers will rapidly drop off and the elk will return, but until then I will leave them alone.

I am not a fan of closing seasons but It might be the best solution to help the herd start to rebuild.

[Bugle M In]

then you know the controversy over the attempt to purposefully reduce the herd numbers, the how and why.
I doubt numbers will ever be brought back to historical highs but also wonder what realistic target numbers would look like for good hunter satisfaction
You make a good point which then leads to the most important question on the table for me.
Back in late 90’s they eliminated many of the cow:calf Leh for many MU’s thru out all of R4.
Not only that, changed from 3pt to 6pt.
Even went as far as starting the season weeks later that first year!!

No issue with me as to why the added those restrictions or more importantly reduced the Leh, because at that time, we could see that there were few cows around and numbers were starting to drop, and probably still better numbers then compared to today.
Dont th re think the 6 pt was necessary nor beneficial, but that’s just my personal opinion.

So, back then it was very important to bring back the numbers, if you look at the new implementation of changes.
But now, as in your post, that is no longer the objective, to bring back say 20-25k in the trench.

So, my first question is:
What changed??
Or better yet,
Who has changed in the Ministry?
Or, who is now having the lions share of the “Say”???.

That is the very first problem to address, imo.
Without the will or directive to increase elk, it can’t even begin to happen.
Just my opinion.

[J_T]

^^^
I'm not sure the experience of others and I'm sure there can be additions, modifications and pages of dialogue regardless of what I put forth here.

As I recall…..
A concern in the late 80s; the Region 4 biologist increased cow elk opportunity to accommodate the vocal ranching community. During some confusion (politics) the harvest of cows lasted somewhat longer than it should have, rendering the population much lower than anticipated.

It is also important, wildlife managers for the most part, manage based on trends. Not real data. And continue to do so.

In the 90's there was no elk population numbers. The then Regional Bio, picked an arbitrary number, "Let's say, we have 20,000 elk, what we want is25,000" (The actual number was never validated) And as long as his efforts of habitat projects, burns, and wildlife stewardship (carry-over-counts) where confirming his upward trending theories, all was well.

Along came the Raedeke report in the mid 90's with short term and long term objectives. And I believe wildlife managers are still largely managing on the basis of those recommendations. Raedeke, a biologist from Washington state used the "projected" 26,000 number as his starting point. This was likely one of the origins of mismanagement. The reason he was contracted, was due to the noticeable drop in elk populations.

At a later date (I think it was 2007) a detailed winter elk inventory was carried out and the number topped out at approximately 14,500 +/-. At the time, it seemed there were lots of elk in the valley. Most were surprised with the actual number inventoried.

Raedeke used the 25,000 number, but as I mentioned he also identified the population number had dropped about 10,000. I'm not sure how he arrived at the number 10,000. When we start with 26,000 and drop 10,000 to 16,000 the issue doesn't seem as critical. But when we take the more accurate population number of 14,000 and drop 10,000 to 4 or 5,000,the situation reaches critical in the blink of an eye.

I believe the lesson here is that it's one thing to manage by male harvest and trends, but you still need to start with an accurate count of the population. Over the next few years (of harvesting cows) no one wondered where the 10,000 elk went from the estimate of 20-25,000, because it was an arbitrary number. What was a shock was when the projected population of elk dropped to 7,000 and then 5,000.

While I personally don't think there should be a limit on the number of elk in the valley and would love to actually have 25-30,000 elk in the EK, there are many who would not appreciate that high a number of elk. Ranchers, ICBC (highway collisions)Railways, residents who would complain of too many elk on their property, would all demand the number be brought down.

The number of elk desired in the EK should be a regional objective, agreed to and set in the active land stewardship plans under the developing "Together for Wildlife" (T4W) initiative. The new (not yet implemented) Regional Wildlife Advisory Committee (RWAC) is not a group of hunters, guides and trappers determining the fate of wildlife. The common link is that everyone on the committee cares about wildlife. The RWAC will involve Indigenous knowledge, tourism, environmentalists, and industry as well as hunters and trappers, with a primary focus of healthy ecosystems and sustainable wildlife numbers.

If you think about it, operating on the basis of a point restriction is not the best application of wildlife biology and stewardship.

The solution, is not restricting hunting, but rather managing the human footprint. Better forest practices, monitor eco-tourism (heli biking, heli skiing, sno cat lodges), manage access, increase habitat enhancement, increase burns and stop the use of chemicals as vegetation inhibitors.

I might also suggest, like so many jurisdictions around us, who have viable populations of elk, we might want to think about rifle hunting in the rut.

[Bugle M In]

Yup, I don’t hunt these other elk regions, but from the sounds of it, those that do are starting to mention concerns.
Hioefully those areas don’t end up down the same rabbit hole.
Good info/insight JT

[j270wsm]

then you know the controversy over the attempt to purposefully reduce the herd numbers, the how and why.
I doubt numbers will ever be brought back to historical highs but also wonder what realistic target numbers would look like for good hunter satisfaction

yes I am aware of the attempts to reduce numbers and some of the reasoning but the timing of everything was wrong. If the actual predator numbers were known and a proper plan to manage them was put into place prior to reducing the elk numbers, we could still have a healthy/stable elk population.

[huntingfamily]

yes I am aware of the attempts to reduce numbers and some of the reasoning but the timing of everything was wrong. If the actual predator numbers were known and a proper plan to manage them was put into place prior to reducing the elk numbers, we could still have a healthy/stable elk population.

They didn't even have the elk numbers correct!
I guess these are the results of spending minimal amounts of money on research and proper data to guide their decisions. Let alone politics and emotions...

[high horse Hal]

3 Elk Management plans dating back to 2000

https://www.env.gov.bc.ca/kootenay/emp/emp.htm

[high horse Hal]

"If you think about it, operating on the basis of a point restriction is not the best application of wildlife biology and stewardship.
The solution, is not restricting hunting, but rather managing the human footprint.
Better forest practices, monitor eco-tourism (heli biking, heli skiing, sno cat lodges), manage access, increase habitat enhancement, increase burns and stop the use of chemicals as vegetation inhibitors.

easy peasy

"I might also suggest, like so many jurisdictions around us, who have viable populations of elk, we might want to think about rifle hunting in the rut."
ha ha

[j270wsm]

I agree that our biologists and the ministry shit the bed when it came to managing the elk population. We’ve all said it…… “ it’s impossible to manage something when you don’t have a starting point “. My fear is that our elk population is so low that the ministry will shut it down as they aren’t smart enough to figure out how to rebuild the herd any other way. I have had too many arguments with guys about hunting cow elk( which I fully support ) and the benefits of harvesting across the entire age class. I love to rifle hunt elk in the rut but I’m also not against extending the bow season further into the rut and moving the rifle season to the end of October for 2 weeks.
After all the end goal for all hunters should be to see a healthy game population.

[Bugle M In]

Probably EK elk Leh for bulls being proposed in the next couple of years.
And the Bio once again saying he doesn’t know what else to do, just like the sheep.
Honestly, I have no other faith in them.

I recall many hunters were starting to think the high cow Leh per mu was a problem.
So I see how that was changed.
But, also agree there should have been a bigger management plan for other factors as well back then.
Again, it’s not 1 problem, but several.
Their solution was to deal with 1 problem and they didn’t even get that right.
Probably damn near the whole province will be Leh by 2040!
And they will get that wrong too!

[Islandeer]

Great points by many.

My favourites:

Antler restrictions do not produce more calf’s,or protect and feed cows and calf’s.
: Predation by wolves especially during calving season and winter is a negative.

: Real backcountry is getting hard to find, elk like safe spaces to live.


: Unreported and unregulated elk harvest must be enforced and factored.

: We need more investment to help enable elk herds to thrive in the EK.

[Bugle M In]

There was also a point made about the habitat and things like century old game trails basically all buried in windfall as well.
I have seen the changes first hand.
Tou just can’t travel thru those areas/trails anymore.
I think in some areas, where the landscape becomes punch points and is on a migration route, it forces insulates like elk out into the open, along rivers, that become a predator pit for wolves.
Do yes, one can point to wolves, but if the effects possibly less if habitat was better.
Meaning beetle kill and windfall need to burn.
Always seems to be multiple issues that lead to an implosion/downfall of ungulates.
Wolves have been there for years, but the habitat was in far better shape as well.
A worker did tell me they witnessed 5 cow elk get corralled up along a cliff bluff area.
Every day or 2, they watched them fall to wolves, and on the last day, only 1 cow remained.
One logger has a story where a WT in the winter literally tried to climb up his machine to evade some wolves in winter.
He said winter was by far the worst time and where he witnessed the wolves intensity on ungulates the most and their devastation.
And plenty of stories if the guys driving the trucks in winter and watching wolves on the heels of ungulates.
I know money is the big issue, without it nothing can be done.
But, it’s obvious from JT’s post, and what I have seen, there has never even been a good plan!
A better plan, with real objectives and goals and then we need the money.

[Elkaddict]

Ive lived in elkford my entire life. Killed my first bull in 99 when I was 18 my second bull when I was 20 and one every yr after that until 2yrs ago. There were many yrs where I was part of multiple successful elk hunts. Probably been part of 35-40 elk kills.
In my opinion, 2008-2012 was the peak of the elk population in the elk valley, we used to see multiple herds of 50-75elk every day going to and from work. Every mtn had a herd of elk on it. Some slides had game trails that you could see with the naked eye at 1000yds. It was an amazing time to be a die hard elk hunter.
Everything started changing around 2012-13. The ministry had given out a lot more cow elk tags, 5 points being shot, the griz and wolf populations seemed sky high and climbing, elk were being hit by vehicles/trains almost every day. Over the next few yrs we seen the elk population starting to plummet all the while the predator numbers were staying stable even with hunter and trappers killing wolves. The elk population has dropped to a point where the old elk trails are hard to recognize due to being overgrown. The slides are void of tan bodies mystically floating in and out of the alders and the echoes of bugles are rarely heard anymore…..
The sound of an elk crashing through the timber coming to my call, the smell of a rutting bull, the adrenaline…..it will forever be in my soul…..but due to the reasons above I have stopped hunting elk. Rather than bitch and complain about low elk numbers I have chosen to leave them alone for a few yrs. One of our local trappers has taken 100wolves out of the upper 1/2 of the fording valley over the last 20yrs and says he’s seeing less and less sign every yr. Hopefully the griz numbers will rapidly drop off and the elk will return, but until then I will leave them alone.

I am not a fan of closing seasons but It might be the best solution to help the herd start to rebuild.

We quit hunting the Elk Valley a couple of years back after not seeing a legal bull there for two or three years straight. I agree with what you've written but have to add that the logging has done the elk no favours either. They may have left the Flathead alone, but I think the Elk has suffered for it. Huge tracts stripped bare with some of it left in deplorable condition. I don't know how the ungulates navigate some of that crap that's been left on the ground.

[high horse Hal]

acceptable numbers on suitable sustainable safe winter range will always be the key driver to conservation efforts
more is not always better

[Bugle M In]

The amount of logging we have done in the EK and elsewhere is certainly a factor all over the province.
The valleys I hunted were certainly raped of trees.

[Bugle M In]

acceptable numbers on suitable sustainable safe winter range will always be the key driver to conservation efforts
more is not always better
Absolutely, winter range is a key factor.
And we need to figure out how to create some, not just hold on to what’s left.
If not, kiss it all goodbye in a couple more decades.
I see right here from my deck in Tsawwassen right now.
Down by the bay is a development on agricultural land.
Its small now, but in 29 years it will all be built on, taken out one slice at a time.
And currently there are snow geese and Canada geese starting to litter the area on their way from summer to winter locations.
The loss of that land will be a big blow to them.
And once all built, the novelty of the area will be gone also by all that live here now.
Its how we are, sadly.
Lots if money, just not for the right reasons and into the wrong pockets.

[J_T]

The amount of logging we have done in the EK and elsewhere is certainly a factor all over the province.
The valleys I hunted were certainly raped of trees. We can still log. It's how we have gone about extracting timber that is the biggest concern. As a provider of resources to the world we have a responsibility to provide lumber, in whatever form. Some thoughts: Leave riparian zones alone, ensure movement corridors for wildlife. Feather the edges of cut blocks. Trees per hectare left should be clumps for wildlife refuge. Carry out post harvest activities, clean up access, reclaim road beds within the prescription, In some cases a prescribed burn in the block a year or so post harvest. Elevate "habitat" as a priority 'for' logging.

[Greenthumbed]

We can still log. It's how we have gone about extracting timber that is the biggest concern. As a provider of resources to the world we have a responsibility to provide lumber, in whatever form. Some thoughts: Leave riparian zones alone, ensure movement corridors for wildlife. Feather the edges of cut blocks. Trees per hectare left should be clumps for wildlife refuge. Carry out post harvest activities, clean up access, reclaim road beds within the prescription, In some cases a prescribed burn in the block a year or so post harvest. Elevate "habitat" as a priority 'for' logging.
J_T,
these comments above are very good. The points you make about positive forest practices are not all that difficult to achieve. And would likely enhance habitat for ungulates. The difficult part is convincing the forestry world that wildlife should be a priority instead of a nuisance.

[Bugle M In]

Agree, I only meant that the past few decades have been non stop.
A better forestry practice needs to happen.
I look above the plateau around cach creek to kammy and north.
Its a moonscape.
And I know it will grow back.
But, when it’s cut like that, and that amount, do any of us really know what it will look like when grown.
Certainly looks like it’s going to be different then it once was.
And so we really know the long term impacts?
When it used to be a block here and a block there, it didn’t change much.
But I have seen areas that elk stayed in daily, now cut, now regrown, and they can’t use it.
Completely different now.
Again, just my opinion/experience.

[Bugle M In]

Original post got off track.
Still curious to see how others made out.
See if we can get some “Hunting” back into “HuntingBC”!

[Jereky]

Had a great hunt this year over there. Found talkative bulls in 4 locations. Two of which we had close encounters in really thick bush that wasn’t conducive of identification or a shot. One location was in a nasty thick old growth valley that was impossible. Set a buddy up there and he chased him for several days and couldn’t close the deal. At another location we had multiple bulls ringing off and coming from either side to within 30yrds raking screaming the whole nine, but again so thick couldn’t see anything except the raked trees. In one encounter we were 6 yrds from this beast. All we could see was the lower legs, a bit of back and a couple times through the thick willows/alder. He was so fired up came in silently from around 75yrds to 6yrds and was growling. A noise I’ll never forget. We screamed and raked back and forth for about 35 min, but he had us pinned down and when we didn’t show ourselves he lost interest and jammed out silent as a ghost which I find incredible for how thick and nasty it was and how close we were. Learned a WHOLE lot this year. Now I really know why guys only hunt these beasts. All told 8 Chatty Cathy’s, within 200 yards, 6 of which within 75 yrds, 3 of which were inside 35. Three times we had 2 separate bulls come from either side. The down wind blew out each time obviously but still traveled a fair distance while engaged in the primary's. Heart pounding and instant cotton mouth!!! Wow so much fun! Trip ended too soon. I’m positive if we had another day we’d have been packing out after finding shooting lames in both spots. Only one location was what could be considered remote. It was hot hot during the day though.

[Elkaddict]

Had a great hunt this year over there. Found talkative bulls in 4 locations. Two of which we had close encounters in really thick bush that wasn’t conducive of identification or a shot. One location was in a nasty thick old growth valley that was impossible. Set a buddy up there and he chased him for several days and couldn’t close the deal. At another location we had multiple bulls ringing off and coming from either side to within 30yrds raking screaming the whole nine, but again so thick couldn’t see anything except the raked trees. In one encounter we were 6 yrds from this beast. All we could see was the lower legs, a bit of back and a couple times through the thick willows/alder. He was so fired up came in silently from around 75yrds to 6yrds and was growling. A noise I’ll never forget. We screamed and raked back and forth for about 35 min, but he had us pinned down and when we didn’t show ourselves he lost interest and jammed out silent as a ghost which I find incredible for how thick and nasty it was and how close we were. Learned a WHOLE lot this year. Now I really know why guys only hunt these beasts. All told 8 Chatty Cathy’s, within 200 yards, 6 of which within 75 yrds, 3 of which were inside 35. Three times we had 2 separate bulls come from either side. The down wind blew out each time obviously but still traveled a fair distance while engaged in the primary's. Heart pounding and instant cotton mouth!!! Wow so much fun! Trip ended too soon. I’m positive if we had another day we’d have been packing out after finding shooting lames in both spots. Only one location was what could be considered remote. It was hot hot during the day though.

Lol, that's awesome. Ain't it just about the most fun you can have with your cloths on?:lol::lol::lol:

[Jereky]

Lol, that's awesome. Ain't it just about the most fun you can have with your cloths on?:lol::lol::lol:

Pretty much!! Gets the blood flowing real quick and the adrenaline going so I had to have water on standby or my mouth was too dry to use the diaphragm!;-) :lol:

Same thing happened last week when I called a bull moose in from about 700 yrds away to about 15 feet. Sat up and took notice really quickly. He backed out to about 115yrds and I put him down. Couldn’t see him through the willows right in front of me except his antlers and top of his back. I was ready for a frontal shot if he came through onto the road though!! That wasn’t in the EK though. Reg 5. Don’t know how to post a pic though.