West Kootenay Elk Hunters

[Dtripp09]

Okay folks, this isn't an MU specific show me your honey holes kinda post. I thought it'd be interesting to discuss WK Elk habitat, patterns and behavior in general. I've had WK success but find the area TOUGH and unique compared to other spots.

Would love to strike up some conversation in general observations through the years so we can all learn and be successful from calling to tactics specific to the west koots from pre rut to post rut. Where do they hang out, what time of season are you most successful with certain types of calls etc.

Happy hunting.

[7thShmimz]

I would like to know tactics for finding them mid-season, when you aren't hearing any bugles back. (My summer scouting spots didn't pan out come sept.) It is such thick country, I feel overwhelmed! I'm thinking the best play is to get a good vantage, and try to glass the cuts. I just don't know how long to spend in an area, or if the area I'm in even has them at this time of year. After I stalked up to 40yds on 2 immature bulls last year on a chance encounter on foot, and bugled back and forth with a bull, I'm desperate to learn more to make that more repeatable. My mentor died when I was young, and so I only have the one elk spot he showed me out in more open woodland a few hours away from where I live. I'd like to learn to find my own/ have some closer back ups. Any suggestions appreciated.

[Dtripp09]

Thanks for the comment! If you're talking about lack of bugles this season, it sure has been quiet. Most people I've talked to this year have said the action has been really slow with the odd morning getting answers. I've been up and down a lot of different drainages from valley bottom to alpine with few to no answers besides last weekend where I was able to get a spike to call back, although it was pretty weak. I've put in about 15 days of hunting and they aren't in my usual spots.

Honestly I think it's a bit of a different year with how warm it's been, I get the feeling it's not that they aren't calling or responding, they're just not where I'm used to running into them. It's sending me further into the backcountry this weekend to hopefully locate a legal bull.

Three weeks ago I was cow calling and able to get in on three seperate groups of cows (8-10 in each) and thought for sure I was going to have a good opportunity. No bulls with them, a week goes by and poof. No cows, no fresh sign, scoured the entire mountain for two days and it's like the bulls came and walked them outta there out of reach unless I commit to a 5+ km packout over really tough terrain.

For locating, something that's worked for me in the past is finding high vantage points and calling after dark.

[HarryToolips]

Thanks for the comment! If you're talking about lack of bugles this season, it sure has been quiet. Most people I've talked to this year have said the action has been really slow with the odd morning getting answers. I've been up and down a lot of different drainages from valley bottom to alpine with few to no answers besides last weekend where I was able to get a spike to call back, although it was pretty weak. I've put in about 15 days of hunting and they aren't in my usual spots.

Honestly I think it's a bit of a different year with how warm it's been, I get the feeling it's not that they aren't calling or responding, they're just not where I'm used to running into them. It's sending me further into the backcountry this weekend to hopefully locate a legal bull.

Three weeks ago I was cow calling and able to get in on three seperate groups of cows (8-10 in each) and thought for sure I was going to have a good opportunity. No bulls with them, a week goes by and poof. No cows, no fresh sign, scoured the entire mountain for two days and it's like the bulls came and walked them outta there out of reach unless I commit to a 5+ km packout over really tough terrain.

For locating, something that's worked for me in the past is finding high vantage points and calling after dark.

I too have found the warm weather to have changed their habits from last year...my partner and I went up to the spot where I shot a bull last year in tge high country and they were nowhere to be found, with no sign that was semi recent...

We were able to locate a herd down lower in a completely different drainage, but they weren't vocalizing until the last day of our trip, which was one bull did only 1 location bugle (which unfortunately for us was only a 5 pt), and then the whole herd including 2 bulls were vocalizing on the last night (but we weren't able to get eyes on them through the thick timber and weren't able to get them to step out in legal light)...we were out Sept 10-16th...

The West reg4 has some very thick country..

[Dtripp09]

I too have found the warm weather to have changed their habits from last year...my partner and I went up to the spot where I shot a bull last year in tge high country and they were nowhere to be found, with no sign that was semi recent...

We were able to locate a herd down lower in a completely different drainage, but they weren't vocalizing until the last day of our trip, which was one bull did only 1 location bugle (which unfortunately for us was only a 5 pt), and then the whole herd including 2 bulls were vocalizing on the last night (but we weren't able to get eyes on them through the thick timber and weren't able to get them to step out in legal light)...we were out Sept 10-16th...

The West reg4 has some very thick country..

Ah too bad on the 5pt, happens! Interesting to keep hearing anecdotally about it being a quiet year. It certainly feels like the rut is happening/happened later than in previous years. Or they collectively decided to rut in secret somewhere.

[Bugle M In]

Harry,
Your this years hunt sounds all too familiar.
They can be vocal for a week, sometimes near the opening of the season, then they can stay quiet for a couple of weeks and then Perk up again.
They can be there one year at a certain time, and other times weeks late if already gone by by the time you hit the area.
Some years there are plent around, and sometimes the numbers just aren’t there.
You can have plenty around, but can’t dig out a 6pt and sometimes it’s almost dead but there’s a 6pg standing right in front of you.

Its sounds like for now though, you have an area that has potential and worth going back to.
Only difference on your outcome if success is only if you can’t go back repeatedly in the same year.
Plent if times I have left knowing that given a few more days, that things were changing, the outcome would certainly have been more if a success.

Picking the right date, if you only have a 1 shit window ahead of time is always tricky.
The weather just can’t be predicted that far in advance, but can make a big difference.
Those that can go back week after week generally get that opportunity to atleast time it right.

[HarryToolips]

Ah too bad on the 5pt, happens! Interesting to keep hearing anecdotally about it being a quiet year. It certainly feels like the rut is happening/happened later than in previous years. Or they collectively decided to rut in secret somewhere.

Absolutely, and that's hunting, point restrictions can promote conservation and sustainable hunting .. it's the way the dice roll sometimes..

[HarryToolips]

Harry,
Your this years hunt sounds all too familiar.
They can be vocal for a week, sometimes near the opening of the season, then they can stay quiet for a couple of weeks and then Perk up again.
They can be there one year at a certain time, and other times weeks late if already gone by by the time you hit the area.
Some years there are plent around, and sometimes the numbers just aren’t there.
You can have plenty around, but can’t dig out a 6pt and sometimes it’s almost dead but there’s a 6pg standing right in front of you.

Its sounds like for now though, you have an area that has potential and worth going back to.
Only difference on your outcome if success is only if you can’t go back repeatedly in the same year.
Plent if times I have left knowing that given a few more days, that things were changing, the outcome would certainly have been more if a success.

Picking the right date, if you only have a 1 shit window ahead of time is always tricky.
The weather just can’t be predicted that far in advance, but can make a big difference.
Those that can go back week after week generally get that opportunity to atleast time it right.

Ya it's unfortunate I don't live in that particular area that I elk hunt, so we only had that week to hunt it... the 2 bulls on the last night were pretty fired up though...

[Bugle M In]

Ya it's unfortunate I don't live in that particular area that I elk hunt, so we only had that week to hunt it... the 2 bulls on the last night were pretty fired up though...
Yup, you can be there and nothing seems to be going on, can’t find a damn thing etc.
Like one season, we went 5 days straight, then one morning had a small 3 pt come out, cross the road, and give me a whistle, and that was it for the whole day.
6th day no different in the morning, but went back in the afternoon just because o felt that little bull couldn’t be too far from other elk.
Well, almost at the top, and I hear a bugle, then another bull beyond him bugles.
And then from the opposite direction, another bull bugles and a 4th one beyond him.
And I hadn’t done a damn thing yet, hadn’t even tried a bugle at that point.
So, 6 full days and basically nothing, 1 sighting, spent everyday in there, either morning or night or both.
And suddenly they are there and they have themselves all fired up (as you say).
Go figure?

[mike31154]

Seems it's going to be another year with many illegally downed 5 points in that region. Good on you for making sure & taking a pass on the one you spotted.

[HighCountryBC]

The WK hasn't been quiet at all this year. Can't compare a couple days of hunting in one drainage and come to the conclusion that's how it's been for an entire region.

Bulls are by far the most vocal when cows come into estrous and they're fending off other bulls. The last bit of bow season into the middle of September was clear skies with a bright moon which certainly would have had elk more active throughout the night.

We had great action most days over our 10 day hunt. Picked up one of our bulls from the butcher on the 24th. He already had 38 elk in at that point and had to shut down for a couple days because they were full. Ran into a few guys who brought elk in and they all killed vocal bulls. It's all a matter of perspective.

The WK jungle is thick and steep in most places which deters a lot of hunters. For us, it's a lot of scouting preseason and covering ground until we strike up a bull that wants to talk. Once they're talking, it's pretty straight forward.

[Bugle M In]

Don’t think anybody was concluding that.
It was o e hunters experience in one area during one week.
Anyone that hunts elk long enough goes thru it.
High temps make for long days.
But then again, some like me have experience 30+ temps, drop a bull at high noon, who came in from a click and a half a way, ripping up the airwaves and walks thru a 400 yard wide cut block to 30 ft, without a care in the world.
Experiences are experienced, neither all right nor all wrong.

[Dtripp09]

The WK hasn't been quiet at all this year. Can't compare a couple days of hunting in one drainage and come to the conclusion that's how it's been for an entire region.

Bulls are by far the most vocal when cows come into estrous and they're fending off other bulls. The last bit of bow season into the middle of September was clear skies with a bright moon which certainly would have had elk more active throughout the night.

We had great action most days over our 10 day hunt. Picked up one of our bulls from the butcher on the 24th. He already had 38 elk in at that point and had to shut down for a couple days because they were full. Ran into a few guys who brought elk in and they all killed vocal bulls. It's all a matter of perspective.

The WK jungle is thick and steep in most places which deters a lot of hunters. For us, it's a lot of scouting preseason and covering ground until we strike up a bull that wants to talk. Once they're talking, it's pretty straight forward.

I don't know who said only a couple of days. Personally, I've been out almost 20 days. Called high and low, spots I've had success in and new drainages. From west of Castlegar, Slocan, pend oreille, Salmo and up Duncan. I think I've clocked at least 60-70km on foot and near a thousand by vehicle. I only got elk calling back in the last week, where last year I had bugles from the 4th to the 25th no problem.

Not saying they aren't talking, I went back and forth this morning for 2 hours with a fired up bull. It's just quieter than normal for me.

Also, you've got in on every elk you got talking eh? The point of this post was tactics. What's your 'pretty straight forward' tactic that makes it so easy for you?

[HighCountryBC]

Also, you've got in on every elk you got talking eh? The point of this post was tactics. What's your 'pretty straight forward' tactic that makes it so easy for you?

If a bull is responding, he can be called in. Not too often a bull comes in on a string with only a few cow calls or bugles back and forth unless he’s young and ambitious or you’re right on top of him.

A guy needs to understand what the bull is saying. A lot of hunters like to over-complicate that and sit tight hoping he’ll come in to some soft cow calling. I prefer being aggressive by cutting off the distance significantly and before much back and forth is had. Even a bull that keeps moving away will eventually get fed up and turn around when you’re close enough.

[HarryToolips]

Yup, you can be there and nothing seems to be going on, can’t find a damn thing etc.
Like one season, we went 5 days straight, then one morning had a small 3 pt come out, cross the road, and give me a whistle, and that was it for the whole day.
6th day no different in the morning, but went back in the afternoon just because o felt that little bull couldn’t be too far from other elk.
Well, almost at the top, and I hear a bugle, then another bull beyond him bugles.
And then from the opposite direction, another bull bugles and a 4th one beyond him.
And I hadn’t done a damn thing yet, hadn’t even tried a bugle at that point.
So, 6 full days and basically nothing, 1 sighting, spent everyday in there, either morning or night or both.
And suddenly they are there and they have themselves all fired up (as you say).
Go figure?

Indeed, elk are a challenge!

[HarryToolips]

Seems it's going to be another year with many illegally downed 5 points in that region. Good on you for making sure & taking a pass on the one you spotted.

I don't understand how hunters could live with themselves after displaying such poor ethics..

[Dtripp09]

If a bull is responding, he can be called in. Not too often a bull comes in on a string with only a few cow calls or bugles back and forth unless he’s young and ambitious or you’re right on top of him.

A guy needs to understand what the bull is saying. A lot of hunters like to over-complicate that and sit tight hoping he’ll come in to some soft cow calling. I prefer being aggressive by cutting off the distance significantly and before much back and forth is had. Even a bull that keeps moving away will eventually get fed up and turn around when you’re close enough.

Well I appreciate the reply. I agree with what you've said. I did this exactly today, but unfortunately my body lost the fight of dogging this bull up the mountain.

He was reluctant to call back as he moved away but did so as I got into around 50 yards multiple times. After starting from valley bottom to ridge top he launched down into the next drainage, just didn't have the time to chase anymore.

[Husky7mm]

The WK hasn't been quiet at all this year. Can't compare a couple days of hunting in one drainage and come to the conclusion that's how it's been for an entire region.

Bulls are by far the most vocal when cows come into estrous and they're fending off other bulls. The last bit of bow season into the middle of September was clear skies with a bright moon which certainly would have had elk more active throughout the night.

We had great action most days over our 10 day hunt. Picked up one of our bulls from the butcher on the 24th. He already had 38 elk in at that point and had to shut down for a couple days because they were full. Ran into a few guys who brought elk in and they all killed vocal bulls. It's all a matter of perspective.

The WK jungle is thick and steep in most places which deters a lot of hunters. For us, it's a lot of scouting preseason and covering ground until we strike up a bull that wants to talk. Once they're talking, it's pretty straight forward.

This is pure gold OP. Read it and read it again.

[Bugle M In]

I had a bull really perplex me one season.
We came in mid day, saw a beauty WT that I totally muffed the shot on.
Anyways. Spent the rest of the day looking for it.
Before dark, came out from the timber at the top of a cut block and realized I hadn’t bugled at all (1st day hunt)
Bugled and immediately got a bugle with chuckle back.
Went back and forth with him, and he didn’t waste time in responding.
Ge moved towards us and us at him, as it was getting late, and we closed the gap quick!
Probably 800 yards between us ( nice bowl, great acoustics).
Gig my buddy in Front of me by 40.
Bull still coming, bugling, and then just about in my buddys view, and the bull veers off, still bugling and moves into deeper timber and keeps going while bugling.
Wind was perfect
Next evening, same thing, same place, same ending and he is vocal and alone.
So, I tried the next day from above as I felt he was spending his time in thick crap, laying in or beside a creek during the day.
Nothing all morning, just staying put.
We napped at around 2-3pm.
At some point I woke to a sound.
It was a flunky sound, probably the bull rolling into his other side.
I bugled, he chuckled, and game on.
3rd time now, me going to him, him to me, but this time it was just him and me.
And just as I know the gap is closing, almost coming face to face, the bugger veers off to the side but still moving up but angled away.
This time I made a quick 90, and started hoofing it.
I was on a game trail, but lots of overgrown evergreen patches to bust threw here and there.
I came thru a bunch, and was looking off to my right thinking he should be there.
Fact was, he was about 30 ft in front in me on the side of trail, broadside looking at me.
All I saw was the whites of his eyes, head drop, quick turn to his right snd then the head and antlers flung back, and then it was elbows and an asshole for a couple of seconds as he lunged up the trail while I tried to count points.
Positive he was a good 6x6, but I still needed to count and never got the chance but I did have a chance at a nice broad side shot I never took while he was full out.

All I can say is, this bull was full on bugling and chuckling snd but tentative to engage.
Made the effort to come my way and called while I made it to him, all 3 times simultaneously.
And yet, it’s like he was putting up a good show, but never the intention to follow thru and kick my ass.
And he was physically no slouch!

No rhyme of reason, for why he was too shy at just the last second.
Wind perfect, I had him convinced I was a bull, and with a couple of cows around.
He played the invite, but wouldn’t take the dance.

Never saw him again the rest of the week of even a peep.

[nelsonob1]

We had a bull bugling from 6.30am until 3 pm two days ago. Had to shoot it to shut it up. As others have said , take a longer walk - ugliest hill you can find. They are on the other side.

[2La]

Only had a couple days off between jobs but was onto 3 different bulls in 2 separate areas, had a look at 2 of em. The bulls actively firing off were 6000’ elv with the one exception being a valley bottom cutblock. He had found a stray cow the day prior, tracks all over the road until they bailed off the road. Fired a quick bugle and he let me know where he was, pretty content tending to her in the thick shit so I came back the next day in a cutblock below that point. We had a 2.5hr scream fest trying to get him out of the timber until he finally got a whiff. Sept 17 ish.
The bugles I heard unprovoked were late afternoon, quiet, and short. Came back in the morning with a rough idea where they are, bugle to locate and I’d get a response right on top of my call.

[REMINGTON JIM]

Seems it's going to be another year with many illegally downed 5 points in that region. Good on you for making sure & taking a pass on the one you spotted.

That’s a Interesting statement Mike :shock: Is There ? A Lot of 5 pointers shot each year ? Any specific MU area - Wondering . RJ

[mike31154]

That’s a Interesting statement Mike :shock: Is There ? A Lot of 5 pointers shot each year ? Any specific MU area - Wondering . RJ

I've seen some articles with alarming numbers from last season but don't recall where. Here's a quote in a recent post on FB group British Columbia Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BritishColumbiaBackcountryHunters

"Message from Kootenay Wildlife Biologists and Conservation Officers:
A substantial number of five point elk are being illegally harvested during the six point or greater elk season in the Southern East Kootenay. In 2021, the number of illegal elk harvested hit a record high, with 56 five point or smaller elk killed over the course of the season. Wildlife biologists and Conservation Officers are concerned that elk are being illegally harvested at a similar rate this fall after 10 five point bulls were killed in the first 12 days of the rifle season.
Please spread the message to take extra time when counting points and judging length of tines to ensure the elk meets the legal definition of a 6-point or greater bull as shown on Page 3 of the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis.
Thank you for being responsible wildlife stewards."

Assuming these were licensed hunters who made errors & self reported or were caught during a check, if you add poachers & other illegal kills, it might not be long until there's a complete moratorium on elk hunting.

[LBM]

I've seen some articles with alarming numbers from last season but don't recall where. Here's a quote in a recent post on FB group British Columbia Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BritishColumbiaBackcountryHunters

"Message from Kootenay Wildlife Biologists and Conservation Officers:
A substantial number of five point elk are being illegally harvested during the six point or greater elk season in the Southern East Kootenay. In 2021, the number of illegal elk harvested hit a record high, with 56 five point or smaller elk killed over the course of the season. Wildlife biologists and Conservation Officers are concerned that elk are being illegally harvested at a similar rate this fall after 10 five point bulls were killed in the first 12 days of the rifle season.
Please spread the message to take extra time when counting points and judging length of tines to ensure the elk meets the legal definition of a 6-point or greater bull as shown on Page 3 of the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis.
Thank you for being responsible wildlife stewards."

Assuming these were licensed hunters who made errors & self reported or were caught during a check, if you add poachers & other illegal kills, it might not be long until there's a complete moratorium on elk hunting.

Those are just the ones found or reported, actual numbers will be higher then that, as you say but many hunters dont seem to care about it.
And its not just elk this is happening to.

[high horse Hal]

just listened to this while in the stand

https://thehunterconservationist.com/podcast/episode-80-illegal-elk-harvest-with-pat-stent/?fbclid=IwAR3Ow5-NoalLRzgclZFgQIdMqTeSFbLiiBWMSurxptVGJVZbkyycH_97G Tg

bull/cow ratios will be the season killer, 10:100 is pretty poor

[Bugle M In]

I hug ave hunted elk long enough.
I wish folks that do hunt them do accept that more times than not the bull you see will be a 5pt.
And honestly, if you have to hum and ha if that little protrusion is a legal 6th point, best to leave it alone and put the rifle down!
There really should be no excuse for killing a 5pt in 6 season.
Ince in a blue moon I can accept that someone mistook a branch for a tine.
But not the way it’s being reported by The bio/co.
No excuse for that bs.

[Elkaddict]

I wonder how many of those 5 pts that have been shot have had the classic 3pt crown and only one brow tine? I worked a bull this year with nice tall headgear and a beautiful, long, 3pt. Split up top. All points were well polished and easy to count but there was no way I could find the second brow (tray?) tine on EITHER side. He may have had dinky little trays that never got polished and were the same colour as his mane, but if so I couldn’t find them, even at at 50 yds. I walked away with a sick feeling that he wouldn’t survive the season because someone wouldn’t bother to do a full count. Found a bull once before that sported a classic 6 pt’s crown but had only one brow. Such a waste.

[Bugle M In]

It would be a good idea if CO/Bios could pass along a bit more info on the antler configuration actually (^^^^so good point!!)
If these 5pts are leaning towards missing a brow tine ( broken off tine) vs just shooting a flat out 5pt with nothing missing.
Just a better idea if folks are just wreckless or careless.

[LBM]

I wonder how many of those 5 pts that have been shot have had the classic 3pt crown and only one brow tine? I worked a bull this year with nice tall headgear and a beautiful, long, 3pt. Split up top. All points were well polished and easy to count but there was no way I could find the second brow (tray?) tine on EITHER side. He may have had dinky little trays that never got polished and were the same colour as his mane, but if so I couldn’t find them, even at at 50 yds. I walked away with a sick feeling that he wouldn’t survive the season because someone wouldn’t bother to do a full count. Found a bull once before that sported a classic 6 pt’s crown but had only one brow. Such a waste.

Seen that a fair bit in certain MUs in the EK where they dont grow the lower tines, have also heard many say if its got 3 on top its good to go, so not taking the time to identify there target. One last year was a 4 point, they even had a spotting scope on it so go figure. Back when there was the cow draw we found
spikes shot as well.
Many that I have seen shot and left have just small bumps not a legal tine. Many of those make it to peoples homes as well if there not seen or caught.

[breakaction]

I wonder how many of those 5 pts that have been shot have had the classic 3pt crown and only one brow tine? I worked a bull this year with nice tall headgear and a beautiful, long, 3pt. Split up top. All points were well polished and easy to count but there was no way I could find the second brow (tray?) tine on EITHER side. He may have had dinky little trays that never got polished and were the same colour as his mane, but if so I couldn’t find them, even at at 50 yds. I walked away with a sick feeling that he wouldn’t survive the season because someone wouldn’t bother to do a full count. Found a bull once before that sported a classic 6 pt’s crown but had only one brow. Such a waste.

I wonder this as well. Was bugling back and forth with one in mid September, but the first good look at one in the area was this past week on the road out in the evening, lower down the mountain. Barely legal light, and he vanished into the darkness after a quick stalk. Beautiful split up top, but couldn’t get passed 90% of seeing if it was a 5 or 6 point for sure. I’m not taking the risk on that, although it will probably haunt me all winter.

They seemed far more vocal in mid month, but now I just get crashing around and faint cow calls poking in all directions.

[REMINGTON JIM]

I've seen some articles with alarming numbers from last season but don't recall where. Here's a quote in a recent post on FB group British Columbia Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BritishColumbiaBackcountryHunters

"Message from Kootenay Wildlife Biologists and Conservation Officers:
A substantial number of five point elk are being illegally harvested during the six point or greater elk season in the Southern East Kootenay. In 2021, the number of illegal elk harvested hit a record high, with 56 five point or smaller elk killed over the course of the season. Wildlife biologists and Conservation Officers are concerned that elk are being illegally harvested at a similar rate this fall after 10 five point bulls were killed in the first 12 days of the rifle season.
Please spread the message to take extra time when counting points and judging length of tines to ensure the elk meets the legal definition of a 6-point or greater bull as shown on Page 3 of the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis.
Thank you for being responsible wildlife stewards."

Assuming these were licensed hunters who made errors & self reported or were caught during a check, if you add poachers & other illegal kills, it might not be long until there's a complete moratorium on elk hunting.

Thanks for that info Mike - Lots of POACHING going on As there is NO way there all Mistakes ! :mad: RJ

[HarryToolips]

I hug ave hunted elk long enough.
I wish folks that do hunt them do accept that more times than not the bull you see will be a 5pt.
And honestly, if you have to hum and ha if that little protrusion is a legal 6th point, best to leave it alone and put the rifle down!
There really should be no excuse for killing a 5pt in 6 season.
Ince in a blue moon I can accept that someone mistook a branch for a tine.
But not the way it’s being reported by The bio/co.
No excuse for that bs.
Completely agree...it's the morons that will be ruining the hunt for the rest of us if they have to shut it down: I know the Ministry objective for bull:cow ratios is 20 bulls:100 cows, if they're not meeting that objective then...just look at how the WK has already been cut back on season dates from Sept 10-Oct 5 (and then bow only season of course) - if idiots keep shooting illegal elk we could lose the season altogether...

[HarryToolips]

I wonder this as well. Was bugling back and forth with one in mid September, but the first good look at one in the area was this past week on the road out in the evening, lower down the mountain. Barely legal light, and he vanished into the darkness after a quick stalk. Beautiful split up top, but couldn’t get passed 90% of seeing if it was a 5 or 6 point for sure. I’m not taking the risk on that, although it will probably haunt me all winter.

They seemed far more vocal in mid month, but now I just get crashing around and faint cow calls poking in all directions.
Good on ya for passing on a questionable bull...welcome to the club...

[HarryToolips]

So technically staying on topic of the OP regarding elk behavior, this question is for all you pro elk hunters High Country, Bugle M In, Elkaddict et al.:

So the last day and a half of my elk hunt with my partner we have figured out the areas after many miles covering ground on foot...we see their sign everywhere in these specific areas, and there is optimal water and thick thick cover (typical WK) in this area - my partner and I then in order to increase our odds of success divide the area into 3 zones, and we split up morning and evening covering 2 of the 3 zones at any one time...because I shot the bull last year my partner gets first dibs on which zone he wants to station at...so he picks the zone where we saw the freshest tracks of the herd: we figure approximately 10-12 elk, and we can see the biggest tracks of the herd are HUGE - big herd bull...so the last evening of our hunt my buddy stations in that zone, and I station where we saw the 5 pt earlier in the day, in the hopes that the herd isn't pressured and may come back to feed in the zone where I was...well, my buddy nailed it on where they'd be: he lets out a location bugle and a couple cow calls with about 20 minutes of legal light left, and then continues to sit...5 or so minutes later, all hell breaks loose as he sits in this one opening where they feed: he can hear a big animal crashing through the woods and it proceeds to let out this huge bugle..buddy then texts me (yes we had cell reception up there) what you think I should do? So I tell him play the wind and get closer to that timber and let out a big challenge bugle: so he does then this bull replies back with several chuckles: to which buddy replies again but light is almost gone at this point..then, the cow elk light up, and so does this other bull! But these bulls are not coming out of the timber, and light is pretty much gone at this point, which would make it a challenge to count 6 tines...wind is good so buddy decides to deke out and we'll try first thing in the am, hoping, praying, that they would feed there all night and we would have opportunity in the morning...so we get up, proceed into the area very carefully, doing all our diligent checks and glassing at the very first glimpse of light...their sign is everywhere, but they were completely gone....We cover ground in the area in the thick timber and call etc but nothing, seems like they completely vacated....

What would you guys have done differently from what I described, if anything?

[Bugle M In]

I don’t know if there is much you could do differently with that little time left.
That bull was protecting his harem.
And probably once nightfall hit and you boys went back to camp and it was all quiet he probably pushed his cows out of there.

I had a different scenario which started on my 1st day of the hunt and only a couple hundred yards from camp, saw a couple cows just off the road so I bugled, and a bull bugled over the hump some 50 yards away and then damn near ran me over about 30 seconds later.
By time I tried to count, off they took.
Anyways, for 3 days after that, every day I found them, he was in timber with the cows, bugling but not coming out.
Each day I had pushed him another 1 to 2 km further away from my camp.
Had him bugling right beyond dark.
Now, on the 4th day he was about 7km from where I started but luckily he hung with his cows along the river.
I realized that I would bugle til night with him, and then the next morning he had moved away protecting his cows.
So, 5th night I got him to bugle just a couple hundred yards up river, so yet Agsin, moving away from camp but in the other side of river do too late to go over.

Instead, I went up river, on my side beyond him, basically ti get in front of him and how he had been travelling for these several days.
l got about 400 yards beyond him, and gave it hell right til dark and him blaring back.
So, now dark, I left bull scent all over.
And didn’t make a peep as I travelled back to camp, going past him on my side of the river.
He kept bugling snd bugling ling after I was gone.

Next morning, I got up real early to be right where he was the night before.
And was hoping they might have come out into the river bed to feed.
Got there 10 minutes before any light.
Didn’t make a sound, no calling.
Got to about 100 yards to where I would be able to look and waited.
As soon as I could just make out where ti walk without breaking a branch or poking an eye out, I walked to the bank of the river.
There he was, with his 8 cows.
And while they fed and the herd cow stared at me!!!
She just knew, that 6th sense!!!
Anyways, there was the bull, lifted his head from feeding, and automatically was staring up river.
Up river from where I bugled last!!!!
I think I tricked him in thinking I was still up there!
And yes, they were moving in the direction back to the timber.
They had been out there for a few hours already it appeared.

So, one can try to get beyond a bull who has cows and is holding fast and try to get the heard to move towards a place that is huntable for the next day, rather than watch them move away in a direction you will never get too.
But, it hard ti get them ti come out when they don’t want ti and it’s too late to try ti go in.
Just how it goes.

[Husky7mm]

Sounds like you guys are in the right scenario to have a chance at a big ass herd bull. I would be way back in the timber up the hill they came off of and I wouldnt call. That bull is bugling to hear if other bulls, or most likely hunters are in the open areas bellow. He’s too smart to commit to coming out in the open during day light. I would hit the timber in the evening and intercept him on his way down but only after the thermals switch down hill or they will smell you. He is going to bugle for a bit when its time for the herd to get up and head down the mountain for the evening feeding. Having them gone by morning is pretty usual, i don’t see elk stay in the same clearings or blocks all night long, either they went lower and wisely took the timber all they way back up or they had their fill and left in the middle of the night. They can see at night like we see during the day. Some days they just don’t feed much. Is it hot? Check the north slope dark timber, find the trails they take down the mountain and ambush them. Some times they bugle quiet and unless your within a few hundred metres you wont hear them. Just listen and move accordingly as they don’t use the exact same trail everyday. Again, I would not call in this scenario, that might have made him/ them hang up till dark.

[HarryToolips]

Bugle M in:

^^^that was a smart move on your part...if we have time next time if that scenario plays out again I may try that thanks..

Husky: we were actually hitting those thick timber areas including on north slopes and we did find their trails but I like your idea of ambushing them , which would have worked well if we had more time to hunt.. when we were in thick where we predicted they would be, we would call and wait but maybe we pushed them further?

[Husky7mm]

Also the herd bull is in the back so if your going to ambush him be prepared to be far enough off the trails that the spikes and cows don’t see or smell you first. There is only a short window of time in the evening for this type of tactic.

[HarryToolips]

Also the herd bull is in the back so if your going to ambush him be prepared to be far enough off the trails that the spikes and cows don’t see or smell you first. There is only a short window of time in the evening for this type of tactic.

For sure makes sense...in this instance, the herd bull was actually bugling from what sounded like the front while the cows were in the rear, weird eh..

[HarryToolips]

I've seen some articles with alarming numbers from last season but don't recall where. Here's a quote in a recent post on FB group British Columbia Backcountry Hunters & Anglers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/BritishColumbiaBackcountryHunters

"Message from Kootenay Wildlife Biologists and Conservation Officers:
A substantial number of five point elk are being illegally harvested during the six point or greater elk season in the Southern East Kootenay. In 2021, the number of illegal elk harvested hit a record high, with 56 five point or smaller elk killed over the course of the season. Wildlife biologists and Conservation Officers are concerned that elk are being illegally harvested at a similar rate this fall after 10 five point bulls were killed in the first 12 days of the rifle season.
Please spread the message to take extra time when counting points and judging length of tines to ensure the elk meets the legal definition of a 6-point or greater bull as shown on Page 3 of the BC Hunting and Trapping Synopsis.
Thank you for being responsible wildlife stewards."

Assuming these were licensed hunters who made errors & self reported or were caught during a check, if you add poachers & other illegal kills, it might not be long until there's a complete moratorium on elk hunting.

Thanks for posting Mike...again, need to stress the importance of getting this message spread to all the fellow hunters we know, most importantly for conservation, and secondly for the fact that if too many bulls are illegally harvested and the bull:cow ratios drop below the target, they will shorten seasons or cancel them all together..this should be a concern for all of us...

[Elkaddict]

For sure makes sense...in this instance, the herd bull was actually bugling from what sounded like the front while the cows were in the rear, weird eh..

In your buddy's case where he bugled first I would say the bull probably positioned himself between a perceived threat and his girls, so not so weird in that case.

I don't think there's much else could have been done. At last light moving in to the timber just robs you of that much more light to count by with the added peril of being busted by one of the cows. Sometimes bugling the opposite direction and moving away will drag a bull with you, but in this case I doubt this guy would leave his girls, or the safety of the timber. Just another one of those plays that keeps you coming back for more ;)

[HarryToolips]

In your buddy's case where he bugled first I would say the bull probably positioned himself between a perceived threat and his girls, so not so weird in that case.

I don't think there's much else could have been done. At last light moving in to the timber just robs you of that much more light to count by with the added peril of being busted by one of the cows. Sometimes bugling the opposite direction and moving away will drag a bull with you, but in this case I doubt this guy would leave his girls, or the safety of the timber. Just another one of those plays that keeps you coming back for more ;)

Absolutely, thanks for the reply..

[Dtripp09]

Thanks for bringing the convo back to the original topic. Lots of interesting accounts and tactics. Hope everyone had a fulfilling season whether or not the freezer was filled.