Whitetails in Port Moody!

[bc sportsman]

I've heard recently that whitetails are in the Fraser Valley, specifically Barnston Island. But guess what...!!!

3:00 pm on IOCO Rd by the old convenience store that's turned into an used goods store...out comes a white tail buck (2 points per side) followed by two other deer. Buck turned tail, ran into the bush with tail a flaggin'. Had a good look at the tail, broad triangular shape as he was flagging.

The only point of note was that the tail hairs appeared somewhat coarse. The whitetails that I see flagging have more longer and finer appearing hair on the underside of the tail.

Didn't really get a good look at the antlers as it was running but seemed to conform to the whitetail standard. The forks were short and close to the skull rather than higher up the main beam. Didn't get a good look at the ears.

Never got a good look at the two other deer...likely does and no idea what species. The would likely be blacktails.

I suspect the buck is a hybrid.

[Deerwhacker]

im pretty sure you have seen a blacktail. This spring i almost crashed my truck driving by checking out a few buck by the side of the road( including one big 4pt)

[lip_ripper00]

I suspect the buck is a hybrid.


Aaaawwwwww crap, here we go again!!!!!:-D

[bc sportsman]

I don't think its a blacktail. I've hunted both mulies and whitetails extensively and have yet to be fooled. I have never hunted blacktails but I have them in my yard three to four times a month and see the blacktails frequently on IOCO Rd, 1st Ave and Bedwell Bay Rds.

I'm always willing to accept that I may be mistaken but that tail sure was distinctive, it wasn't thin, it was broad, it was doing the traditional flagging, up high and waving back and forth just like every whitetail I have spooked. And the tail was solid white on the underneath. The bucks body was also a bit more compact but that could be simply because it was a small buck.

[115 or bust]

Odds are what you saw was a blacktail. I've also hunted mulies and whiteys a lot but I live on vancouver island and over here there is no potential for hybridizing and almost all the deer over here flag when they are alarmed and most of the bucks sport typical white tail racks I have actually seen very few that ever had the mulie 5 point shape. These bucks never have a white rump. The deer in the valley's and fields especially tend to look like whitetails and I've heard experienced hunters who didn't know better call them whitetails before. Anythings possible but odds are it was a blacktail.

[hunter1947]

I think you saw blacktail ,the only way you could convince me is a pic of the deer . http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/images/icons/icon12.gif.

[sealevel]

So whitetails have only populated most of the rest of the provence in the last 30 years. so why not the lower mainland ?

[270WIN]

i to think it is a black tail i have seen black tail on texada island flag like a white tail when alarmed and far as i know there is no way of whities on texada island.

i to have seen some deer on ioco and i to have almost ditched the truck looking at a nice 4 point right in the field behind the store

[Mtn Wonderer]

Whitetail deer are confrimed around hope and herling island on the fraser in the valley, A few years back (8-10) I saw a white tail that the Co's had confiscated, it was shot near Hope, so PM would not be much of a stretch.

[Wildman]

Many of the Blacktails I have seen have the Whitetail 'style' antlers.

[kishman]

Every year the synopsis warns not to hunt the small herd of Whitetail in the Herrling Island "area." Herrling is no more than 70km from Pt. Moody and from what I've seen Whities do pretty well in populated areas. I believe:D........

[wsm]

few years ago a whitty buck was illegaly shot as a blacktail in the upper squamish valley. i could believe it. think i may still have that article.

[bc sportsman]

Well, a number of experienced hunters indicate that they have seen blacktails flag. I've never seen it and also, the blacktail 'tails' that I've seen have always been narrow, not broad. However, I must accept what others with experience say here.

I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't a whitetail but have to accept that I might be wrong....damn...there...I said it....

[RMG]

Why do so many refuse to believe that mule deer and white tails hybridize, not a common thing, but it does happen. Well documented in captavity and in the wilds. Heck biologists never believed that Pbears and Gbears would cross in the wilds. Mother Nature in all her wonderous ways has yet to listen to biologists or hunter, regarding what she can and cant do.

[ruger#1]

The Columbian Blacktail Deer
By Dan Gibson
For many years the Columbian Blacktail Deer has been considered a subspecies of the Mule deer, however recent DNA testing has proven this not to be the case. In Valerius Geist's informative book Mule Deer Country he explains that by testing the mitochondrial DNA (the mothers DNA ) of the three species (blacktail, whitetail and mule deer), researchers have now determined that it was the mating of Whitetail does and Blacktail buck's that gave rise to the Mule deer and not the opposite as was once suspected.

It is now believed that millions of years ago the Whitetail deer expanded its range down the east coast of the United States, across Mexico, and then back up the West coast, where it eventually evolved into the Blacktail Deer. This may help to explain the strong resemblance in appearance and psychological characteristics between the two. Thousands of years later as the recently evolved Blacktail's range spread eastward and the Whitehall's range again expanded westward, the two deer again met. At this point the Blacktail bucks, displaced the Whitetail bucks, and bred the Whitetail does. Researches now believe that it is this hybridization that produced what is now know as the Muledeer.

For those of you not familiar with the Columbian Blacktail, their range, as recognized by Boone and Crockett (B&C), extends form central British Columbia, south to the Monterey Bay in California. Columbian Blacktails inhabit a narrow strip of land from the shores of the pacific ocean inland for approximately a hundred miles. This distance will of course vary from location to location

In regards to the geographic boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail one must rely on the observations of wildlife biologists, graduate students and scientists, who have done extensive scientific research and identification on the Columbian Blacktail and it's range. I wish it was as simple as having years of hunting experience in order to be able do identify the possible genetic make-up of a particular deer, but unfortunately it isn't. This is why DNA is such an important tool in deer identification.

When I refer to the boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, I am referring to the recognized Boone & Crockett boundaries. B&C's boundaries are not the exact boundaries of the Columbian Blacktail, they have actually been moved slightly inward to help reduce the possibility of hybridization with Muledeer or Muledeer/Blacktail crosses. Since we are a hunting website these are the boundaries we recognize.There are undoubtedly pure Columbian Blacktails in other area's but because of possible hybridization, they are not considered pure Columbian Blacktails by B&C. Just because a buck appears to be 100% Columbian, doesn't mean that generations ago there wasn't a Muledeer in his heritage.
Blacktail deer on average are smaller than their Whitetail and Muledeer cousins. Here in my north western California a 140 pound buck (live weight) is considered very good size. Blacktail bucks do occasionally approach 200 pounds, but from my experience, it's a very rare occurrence. Years ago I killed a huge bodied forked horn in San Joaquine county that tipped the scales at 171 pounds field dressed. To date this buck is the largest Columbian Blacktail I have ever personally witnessed.

Although I do not have a lot of experience with Oregon Blacktails I am told they are slightly larger in body size than the California bucks. Washington on the other hand produces some very large bodied Blacktails. If my experience with this website is any indication, it appears that bucks weighing 175 lb. field dressed are not that uncommon in the "Evergreen state".

Horn size in Blacktails runs contrary to what one might expect and is an often debated topic among Blacktail hunters. In the Columbian Blacktail body size appears to have little relationship to horn size. This is generally not the situation with Whitetail and Muledeer. In their case, body size and antler size are closely related and as a rule of thumb both get larger as you travel north. The larger the body the larger the antlers. This becomes very evident when you compare a Florida Whitetail to a Michigan Whitetail, or a Desert Mule Deer to a Rocky Mountain Mule Deer.

In the case of the Columbian Blacktail this circumstance does not apply. California, the southern most state in the Columbian Blacktails range, has produced more B&C Blacktails than either Oregon or Washington. One would think that the opposite would be true but the record books state the fact clearly. The largest racked Columbian Blacktails are found in the southern portion of their range. Even though California and Oregon regularly produce higher scoring bucks than Washington. The current world record comes from Washington state. Obviously California and Oregon are not the only areas capable of producing huge Blacktails.

[rollingrock]

That's the two point that showed up in my backyard. He's a blacktail. Young buck though.

[boxhitch]

The Columbian Blacktail Deer

By Dan Gibson
. Interesting read. Who is this guy ?

[Grandbois]

very interesting, some interesting theories