Leh

[nelsonob1]

When does it open? I'm feeling lucky.

[Bugle M In]

Well then, I wish you good luck.
I think it is very soon?
I am out this season.
Maybe even permanently.

[browningboy]

They usually came out in march and then closed end of may…I was just thinking that last night?

Bugle…hope all is good with you with those comments.

[B-rad]

as a rule of thumb,,,,,,2nd----3rd week of April as a guide line,,,,,and closes end of May

[HarryToolips]

I imagine they have to finalize their decision with moose in region 7b etc first before they roll em out?

[kolofardos]

I feel they'll be out April 15, the draw will be May 25th, I'll be winning Sheep in Kamloops, Moose in 3 30, Bison in Princeton, and province-wide grouse.

[tigrr]

https://www.all-about-moose.com/limited-entry-hunting.html
scroll down to see the previous years date it opened.

[bigben]

turkey is all I am putting in for this year

[HappyJack]

What percentage of people actually win a draw? Most of the people in my circle haven't gotten a thing the last few years but I guess that is how a lottery works, always more losers than winners...unless you're related to someone in govt.

[BCHunterTV]

it will be out at the end of the month.

[wildcatter]

Well then, I wish you good luck.
I think it is very soon?
I am out this season.
Maybe even permanently.

What do you mean by that?

[srthomas75]

What percentage of people actually win a draw? Most of the people in my circle haven't gotten a thing the last few years but I guess that is how a lottery works, always more losers than winners...unless you're related to someone in govt.

those stats are located somewhere.[ probably on the leh site? ] Every year there will be several folks commenting on how they never win a draw but they only enter draws with historical odds of 60:1 or worse.

[Treed]

They are probably moving everything to LEH in consultation with 3.5% of the population.

[wideopenthrottle]

these are some draw dates from the past

2020 - Monday June 22nd

2019 - Monday June 24th

2018 - Tuesday June 19th
2017 - Thursday June 15th

2016 - Monday June 27th

2015 - Wednesday July 8th
2014 - Tuesday July 8th

2013 - Tuesday July 2nd

2012 - Tuesday June 26th

2011 - Wednesday June 15th

2010 - Monday June 14th

[HappyJack]

those stats are located somewhere.[ probably on the leh site? ] Every year there will be several folks commenting on how they never win a draw but they only enter draws with historical odds of 60:1 or worse.

Not in our case [60:1], some people just seem to have more luck, even though I sometimes think it's all rigged somehow. It would be interesting to have an audit done to see if the results they report are even true and it would be interesting to know who has had extraordinary 'luck' over all the years.

[HappyJack]

They are probably moving everything to LEH in consultation with 3.5% of the population.

Would be way less than that, they sure don't consult with 100,000 resident hunters?

[Bugle M In]

I have some talk that many locals are upset with LM winning all the LEH in their areas.
I just have to say, that sure hadn’t been the case for me not my other 3 hunting partners from down here.
And I talking draws with reasonable odds to win over say a 10 year period.

On the other hand, I know of someone from here who won the Squamish elk twice in 3 years and then moved over a spot or 2 from there and won the elk draws there twice in a row.
I have no clue how that is possible?
But it tells me we have a bit of a problem in the actual system.
IMO

[RyoTHC]

To be fair I wouldn’t be surprised if half the provinces hunters live in that hellscape down there.. rurally lots of people hunt but also tonnes of snowflakes have moved out recently who couldn’t fend for themselves if they were paid to.

[HappyJack]

I have some talk that many locals are upset with LM winning all the LEH in their areas.
I just have to say, that sure hadn’t been the case for me not my other 3 hunting partners from down here.
And I talking draws with reasonable odds to win over say a 10 year period.

On the other hand, I know of someone from here who won the Squamish elk twice in 3 years and then moved over a spot or 2 from there and won the elk draws there twice in a row.
I have no clue how that is possible?
But it tells me we have a bit of a problem in the actual system.
IMO

I've seen people get moose leh in the same MU, 4 out of 5 consecutive years, should be practically impossible to get with the reported way enhanced odds is supposed to work. I also was in a group of 7 that applied for a goat draw with 2 tags available, when we got the sorry letter they told us the odds came out at 6.4>1 but not one of the 7 guys got the draw?? Begs the question, where did those tags actually go??

[Squamch]

I've seen people get moose leh in the same MU, 4 out of 5 consecutive years, should be practically impossible to get with the reported way enhanced odds is supposed to work. I also was in a group of 7 that applied for a goat draw with 2 tags available, when we got the sorry letter they told us the odds came out at 6.4>1 but not one of the 7 guys got the draw?? Begs the question, where did those tags actually go??

Every one of those guys had 6.4:1 odds. If one guy had 7 entries, the odds would have been different, but the odds don't apply to the group, they apply to the individual. Frustrating, I agree, but, that's how a lottery works. Heck, dad and I put in for a moose draw once that had 1.2:1 odds...both of us didn't get it. But he screwed up a few years back and didn't join the group....still got drawn as an individual.

[Bugle M In]

What do you mean by that?
Well, I had some big changes occur back in February that we all inevitably deal with at some point in our lives.
I already had some changes occur both physically and this financially about 8 years ago.
With losing my father, I lost a great hunting partner and truly the only hunting partner that I could rely on.
And with that, some of the modern day comforts as well.
Unfortunately my brother never shared a passion for the outdoors.
And now wants his half of everything, regardless of impact to me.
Anyways, this season I will most likely be too side tracked with family affairs.
And the future doesn’t look bright as well.
My first responsibility is to my wife and daughter and getting them a house they deserve.
Ig that means sacrificing the truck/camper so be it.
Time will tell.
I appreciate the concern in your question.
Atleast I still have gear for salmon fishing and a friend with a boat.

[4 point]

All the best going forward Bugle M In. Many folks go thru adversity and come out if it much stronger, be-it an individual or family.

[Redthies]

Unfortunately my brother now wants his half of everything, regardless of impact to me..

I feel your pain. My “favourite” sister was executor of our fathers estate. She personally screwed me out of tens of thousands of dollars that he left me, and then tried to charge myself and two other siblings $60,000 to be executor, when she was already the largest beneficiary. She is now in my phone contacts under “greedy cun*”.

I also sold my dream camper in order to buy a house for my family. It’s just what you do. I bought a new teepee tent, and will use that instead this year. It won’t be a custom built Northern Lite, but I will have just as much fun when out chasing supper!

[wildcatter]

Well, I had some big changes occur back in February that we all inevitably deal with at some point in our lives.
I already had some changes occur both physically and this financially about 8 years ago.
With losing my father, I lost a great hunting partner and truly the only hunting partner that I could rely on.
And with that, some of the modern day comforts as well.
Unfortunately my brother never shared a passion for the outdoors.
And now wants his half of everything, regardless of impact to me.
Anyways, this season I will most likely be too side tracked with family affairs.
And the future doesn’t look bright as well.
My first responsibility is to my wife and daughter and getting them a house they deserve.
Ig that means sacrificing the truck/camper so be it.
Time will tell.
I appreciate the concern in your question.
Atleast I still have gear for salmon fishing and a friend with a boat.


Sorry to hear all that, life is always a struggle, but keep your chin up and certainly don't give up.
Myself, I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be around, but try not to let that consume my daily life.
Cheers, Otto

[Bugle M In]

Thanks guys.
Certainly is going to be a life changer.
My father and my life were very intertwined with the same interests.
Not sure after jumping these hurdles how exactly I will land.
Some of the physical issues affected my finances already for a number of years now.
Have never really landed back on both feet since.
But, even after this, I will still be breathing.
First world problems I suppose.

I will post up a tribute to him one day on here.
And, I will certainly be posting a thread on the does and dints on a will if you have multiple children!!!
50/50 split is not what you write.
Be specific and find out what the kids want or don’t want and what they might be all interested in etc.
Tske into account some kids interests can the other and so on.
I have heard horror stories from estates where the parents thought it would be simple.
Understand probate as well.
Write all the items down and be specific to who gets what or for how much.
Many thanks again folks

[browningboy]

Well, I had some big changes occur back in February that we all inevitably deal with at some point in our lives.
I already had some changes occur both physically and this financially about 8 years ago.
With losing my father, I lost a great hunting partner and truly the only hunting partner that I could rely on.
And with that, some of the modern day comforts as well.
Unfortunately my brother never shared a passion for the outdoors.
And now wants his half of everything, regardless of impact to me.
Anyways, this season I will most likely be too side tracked with family affairs.
And the future doesn’t look bright as well.
My first responsibility is to my wife and daughter and getting them a house they deserve.
Ig that means sacrificing the truck/camper so be it.
Time will tell.
I appreciate the concern in your question.
Atleast I still have gear for salmon fishing and a friend with a boat.

Greed kills families unfortunately, but keep your head up and be proud of what you’re doing to get a house, will pay off in spades

[landphil]

Well, I had some big changes occur back in February that we all inevitably deal with at some point in our lives.
I already had some changes occur both physically and this financially about 8 years ago.
With losing my father, I lost a great hunting partner and truly the only hunting partner that I could rely on.
And with that, some of the modern day comforts as well.
Unfortunately my brother never shared a passion for the outdoors.
And now wants his half of everything, regardless of impact to me.
Anyways, this season I will most likely be too side tracked with family affairs.
And the future doesn’t look bright as well.
My first responsibility is to my wife and daughter and getting them a house they deserve.
Ig that means sacrificing the truck/camper so be it.
Time will tell.
I appreciate the concern in your question.
Atleast I still have gear for salmon fishing and a friend with a boat.

Having lost my own dad a bit over a year ago, I’m all too aware of how painful that can be on it’s own, without the added issues and drama you speak of. That said, if you and your dad shared a love of the outdoors, hunting…, I can’t help but think he’d want you to continue in those ways when and where you can. It may not be this season, or even next, but you’ll know when it’s time. I’m sure you’ll stir up some fond memories of him when you do.

[HappyJack]

Every one of those guys had 6.4:1 odds. If one guy had 7 entries, the odds would have been different, but the odds don't apply to the group, they apply to the individual. Frustrating, I agree, but, that's how a lottery works. Heck, dad and I put in for a moose draw once that had 1.2:1 odds...both of us didn't get it. But he screwed up a few years back and didn't join the group....still got drawn as an individual.

I tried applying in those ultra low odds zones a couple of years and didn't have any luck there either. So we just started moose hunting in 7B, now the dirty turds are putting that zone on LEH too. I guess if we don't win a moose tag we might still be able to hunt calves and spike forks in 7a, or rob a bank so we could afford to purchase a tag from an outfitter.

[Redthies]

I’ve always entered the really low odds draws. Like 2-1 for antlerless in Pemberton valley. Still never won a single draw…

[srthomas75]

I also was in a group of 7 that applied for a goat draw with 2 tags available, when we got the sorry letter they told us the odds came out at 6.4>1 but not one of the 7 guys got the draw?? Begs the question, where did those tags actually go??

I would read that as though 13 people entered that draw. [ 2 tags at 6.4:1 ] but for some reason I didn't think they posted the draw odds on the results paper that they mailed out. Or am I not remembering that part correctly.

[HappyJack]

I would read that as though 13 people entered that draw. [ 2 tags at 6.4:1 ] but for some reason I didn't think they posted the draw odds on the results paper that they mailed out. Or am I not remembering that part correctly.

They usually tell you what the odds ended up being, the odds in the paper are from the previous year. That is the way I read it too, I think it would be nice to have access to more detailed information. The stories from guys like Redthies are far too common and they shouldn't be, people will say that is just how a lottery works and applying multiple years won't give you a better chance of drawing, but that doesn't take into account the probability of that happening. Take an example of a dice, 6 sides, a 1 in 6 odds, how many rolls would you expect it to take before you hit the number you were after? I think there are adjustments they could make to our current system to spread the wealth around a bit more so applicants didn't have to wait a lifetime to win a draw [in a lot of the draws].

[wifigary]

So when I got a moose two years ago, the odds for the draw that I applied for was printed right on the authorization sheet for each LEH member.
Also, last year, I submitted a Freedom of Information access request detailing draw odds and calculations, tag numbers and first choice vs second choice allocations etc ( I'm a data analyst so numbers are kinda my thing ) and they replied back that the scope of the query was too broad and that it would cost me thousands of dollars in processing fees to complete my request. As a result of my request though, they had already built the database query, and as such they would be releasing the data publicly.
So here it is boys:
LEH draw data 2002 to Current
https://catalogue.data.gov.bc.ca/dataset/50555048-1ab7-4f50-bb4a-8b8142f0cba5

[HappyJack]

So when I got a moose two years ago, the odds for the draw that I applied for was printed right on the authorization sheet for each LEH member.
Also, last year, I submitted a Freedom of Information access request detailing draw odds and calculations, tag numbers and first choice vs second choice allocations etc ( I'm a data analyst so numbers are kinda my thing ) and they replied back that the scope of the query was too broad and that it would cost me thousands of dollars in processing fees to complete my request. As a result of my request though, they had already built the database query, and as such they would be releasing the data publicly.
So here it is boys:
LEH draw data 2002 to Current
https://catalogue.data.gov.bc.ca/dataset/50555048-1ab7-4f50-bb4a-8b8142f0cba5

A maze of information on there, thanks for the share. You are more familiar with it, can you find out how many licensed hunters purchase moose tags? And how many total moose leh tags are distributed. Oh my, hit a technology wall, seems I can't get into the numbers.

[wifigary]

It doesn't go into detail on how many people were in each group or if they were group/shared/individual applications. They did say that the odds on the group hunts are the number of groups or individuals that applied, as they only count as a single entry each. The odds on the shared hunts represent the total number of people contained within the shared hunt group.

There's no tag purchasing data on there as the scope was limited to just the draw. It's not a requirement of the draw, even if you're successful, to go on and buy a tag.

You're looking for "Hunting sales statistics":
https://catalogue.data.gov.bc.ca/dataset/hunting-sales-statistics-2005-to-current/resource/2f207848-633b-4419-a8d4-217ab5b1c76c

The quick answer is between 35-40,000 moose tags sold on average per year from 2005-2021

Have fun!

[J_T]

It will take more time to collect data on wildlife to support wildlife management decisions. However we have been collecting data on hunters for some time, and it could/SHOULD be used to lay out hunting opportunity.

As an example, some data from the Government system. REGION 4 Only, this represents a sample of the data Government collects.

A total of 11,898 hunting licences sold last year to 'residents' of region 4.
52% of those licences check the bowhunting box.

Of the 11,898 licences sold, 4,922 R4 residents submitted LEH requests.

614 R4 residents (5%) received a moose LEH for R4.
2909 R4 Residents (24%) received an LEH for any (other) species.

I would propose, where you have 5% of a local area authorized to hunt under LEH, it isn't long (1 generation) where the skills to hunt a specific species are lost.

We know LEH will be the end of hunting. And it is receiving approval as the go to solution for Government more frequently. What we can do is, consider managing hunting opportunity based on who hunters are proving to be. We can be much more creative in building opportunity.

[HappyJack]

It doesn't go into detail on how many people were in each group or if they were group/shared/individual applications. They did say that the odds on the group hunts are the number of groups or individuals that applied, as they only count as a single entry each. The odds on the shared hunts represent the total number of people contained within the shared hunt group.

There's no tag purchasing data on there as the scope was limited to just the draw. It's not a requirement of the draw, even if you're successful, to go on and buy a tag.

You're looking for "Hunting sales statistics":
https://catalogue.data.gov.bc.ca/dataset/hunting-sales-statistics-2005-to-current/resource/2f207848-633b-4419-a8d4-217ab5b1c76c

The quick answer is between 35-40,000 moose tags sold on average per year from 2005-2021

Have fun!

Thanks, that provides the answer I was looking for.

[J_T]

Provincially, using the combination of this Hunting Sales statistics and Big Game Harvest information for the years 2015, 16 and 17: (I don't have combination data after 2017)
Note the 11-14% success rate. Which translates to a high number of unsatisfied moose hunters and the LEH system.


Year
2015 #Hunting Licences 86,370 #moose tags 38,067 %of hunters buying a moose tag 44% #moose harvests 5,538 %of moose hunter success 14%
2016 #Hunting Licences 90,288 #moose tags 39,556 %of hunters buying a moose tag 43% #moose harvests 4,973 %of moose hunter success 12%
2017 #Hunting Licences 90,582 #moose tags 38,874 %of hunters buying a moose tag 42% #moose harvests 4,445 %of moose hunter success 11%

The number of moose tags purchased is not equal to the number of moose LEH draws, as there are GOS Moose seasons.

I'm not sure if much of this below applies to this thread, but I'd rather provide more information and let you determine what you want to read. (transparency?)

From the "Strategy to Help Restore Moose Populations in BC" 2016, Al Gorley.
________________

According to the Big Game Harvest Management procedure and the Moose Harvest Management procedure, the AAH will be set to be compatible with achieving management objectives. Unless alternate objectives have been identified, the primary population management objective for big game populations will be to maintain post-hunt numbers for each population management unit (PMU) at or near “current” levels.

It will not be easy. Surveys tell us that significant declines in moose numbers during the last decade have occurred in the some regions of British Columbia, often corresponding with widespread habitat alteration caused by salvage harvesting of beetle-killed timber. Experts suggest that in time, salvage logging could benefit moose through increased forage production. In the short-term however the higher density of roads and cut blocks can increase hunting and predator pressure, and disadvantage moose.

Government estimates also show that provincially the licensed moose harvest has fallen from about 14,000 in the late 1980s to less than 6,000in 2014, while hunter effort (average days hunted) has remained relatively constant. First Nations and stakeholders across the province are concerned about these trends, and have encouraged adoption of a moose population enhancement initiative. This report makes 21 recommendations that complement the provincial framework for moose management (2015), collectively providing a strategy to help restore the seriously depleted moose populations in some parts of the province, and enhance numbers elsewhere. The effectiveness of various methods will differ depending on local circumstances, and it will take some time to achieve results.

RECOMMENDATION:
2. Confirm the present guidance on harvest priorities as the hierarchy to inform operational objective setting and management.

REASONS:
The existing guidance to decision makers responsible for regulating hunting is to place the highest priority on conservation, followed by the right of First Nations to hunt. Hunting done under the Wildlife Act may then occur and is split(allocated) between resident hunters and guide outfitters.

“The history of inventory and monitoring in BC, with some notable exceptions, has largely been ad hoc and reactive to management issues and concerns. A more structured, adaptive approach that connects inventory and monitoring to decision making through management objectives will help to resolve this” (Draft: Strategic Big Game Inventory and Monitoring Plan). The provincial framework for moose management describes how priorities are set for monitoring.

Provincial population estimates are determined every three to five years using a combination of survey data and expert opinion. Since 2000 they have been expressed as a range (120,000 – 205,000 in 2014). This number is useful to show general trends, but does not provide sufficiently specific information to make operational decisions. The confidence level is higher at the regional and sub-regional level, but there will be variations between game management zones. Adequate estimates will be needed at a relatively fine scale to inform population enhancement activities.

[nelsonob1]

Still not open yet. Maybe no limited entry this year....

[browningboy]

With all the Indian stuff happening I bet there will be no LEHs

[RyoTHC]

No leh? Sounds like that means GOS.

[scoutlt1]

We should all know that we have to wait to see what the UN decides is best for us....

[TheObserver]

We should all know that we have to wait to see what the UN decides is best for us....

Hahah no doubt, electric cars, strict diet of vegan soy and bugs, digital dollar and digital id, mandatory injections, rations, no inheritence and universal basic income, no private property and you share a living quarter with strangers/other families

[nedarb2]

With all the Indian stuff happening I bet there will be no LEHs

they arnt ours to get 😂😂😂😂

[RyoTHC]

No LeH = GoS.

[nelsonob1]

I got an email from leh office. They will be publishing 2022/23 leh regs in a couple of weeks the the draw will open after that.

[stosto]

thanks for letting us know!

[Bullreaper]

Email from fish and wildlife office about LEH….
Received this On Thursday April 28th

Hello,


The LEH draw won't be open for applications for a little while yet. We should be publishing the new 2022-2023 LEH Synopsis online in the next couple of weeks. You should then be able to apply for the LEH draw once the new synopsis is published, with a deadline date for applications most likely the last Thursday of May. The deadline date will be set once the new synopsis is published and please note that these are still approximate timeframes only and there is no specific opening date currently.

[tinhorse]

Haha with a 2 week time frame to get applications in I imagine that there will be many that miss the application deadline as the rush of people knocks the system down once again

[abbyfireguy]

System normal ,,, all screwed up..

[Carrollizer]

We just gotta trust the government guys! they know whats best for us and our scary hunting firearms

[Cdog]

I bet the reason the regs are going to come out before the LEH is because of the Northern moose hunting cancellation fiasco. They want to announce it that way and not by the LEH draw synopsis.

[jonx]

Well for all of us going to put in. It will be fast and furious

[Deer_Slayer]

Don't be shocked if it is cancelled. **** the NDP

[tigrr]

I think I'll put in for a grizzly draw around Horsefly. 7 live in my hood. Can't use fish guts in garden, somebitches dig them up.
I heard they taste good.
I check every 3 or 4 days if I can apply for an LEH. Still no dice.

[Deer_Slayer]

How does lucky feel about that?:!:

[gitnadoix]

Wildlife data collection and decisions supporting Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) are ongoing. The opening date for 2022 Fall LEH applications will be announced as soon as possible. Please check back here for updates.

Gotta love the use of words......im betting the decisions are not supportive.....at least not for resident hunters.

[Moose63]

This is not going to go well....bracing for impact.....

[100milehousehunter]

What is going on this is ridiculous. First our local fishery taken away now hunting.

[jshansen]

Brutal. I don't think anything will surprise me anymore this this government. If the leh does open up, what will they give us? A week to put in?

[Ron.C]

Brutal. I don't think anything will surprise me anymore this this government. If the leh does open up, what will they give us? A week to put in?

Im not concerned about having enough time, im concerned about what the LEH may look like???

Very possible allot of GOS (reg 6/7 moose and caribou) will be moved from a gos to a very limited leh opportunity. Or even worse, no gos and no leh

[jshansen]

I agree with you there, it'll screw a lot of of people over in a lot of ways

[wideopenthrottle]

and half of that time the site will be crashed from so many people being on it at once..i will be putting in right away and not leaving it to the last minute...I think I know where but we need to be sure as I am thinking this years long trip will be in more than one region...like say 4 hours NE for mules then 4 hours SE for WT then 4 hours home to make 2 8 hour drive hunting trips into 1 12 hour drive loop/trip with 2 camping spots
Brutal. I don't think anything will surprise me anymore this this government. If the leh does open up, what will they give us? A week to put in?

[Ron.C]

I agree with you there, it'll screw a lot of of people over in a lot of ways

I dont think the govt gives a fiddlers f@#$ about screwing over resident hunters. We are typically not the ones that vote for them. This is govt using resident hunter opportunity as a bargining chip in a game none of us are invited to play in.

[jshansen]

I dont think the govt gives a fiddlers f@#$ about screwing over resident hunters. We are typically not the ones that vote for them. This is govt using resident hunter opportunity as a bargining chip in a game none of us are invited to play in.

Agreed. Sad and frustrating to watch our opportunities slip away, we are definetley at the bottom of the priority barrel

[browningboy]

Checked today and still closed... sad

[J_T]

I dont think the govt gives a fiddlers f@#$ about screwing over resident hunters. We are typically not the ones that vote for them. This is govt using resident hunter opportunity as a bargining chip in a game none of us are invited to play in.
Hmm, I don't think it's that Government doesn't care. It might be equally as much, that resident hunters continue to place a ton of value on the success of LEH and in doing so, Government "assume" resident hunters are happy with LEH. In my conversations with Gov staff, they aren't always clear in their understand about residents preference, GOS over LEH. They often feel (speaking in generalities) that hunters prefer staggered LEH lottery odds of a 2 to 4 week period over a GOS. And over a GOS that may be much shorter in duration. In many cases, Government are only doing what they think residents are willing to accept.

[Ron.C]

JT,

My comments were in response to the potential changes to reg 6/7 moose and caribou. And I stand by my comment. At the end of the day I dont think govt cares what resident hunters think. Really doesnt matter what we are willing to accept. I may be wrong( wouldnt be the first time) but I have no faith that our govt see's any measureable value in providing fair non FN resident hunting opportunity. And to be clear, by govt Im talking the politicians, not those who work in the fish/wildlife departments.

Was like the "interim" griz hunt. Everyone knew it was over at that point regardless of what resident hunters thought.

I expect we will see see more "interim" measures for reg 6/7 moose and bou. I suspect the longterm solution will not be favourable for resident hunters.

My wife says Im wrong all the time, here's hoping she's correct (again):roll:

[Fella]

Friend of mine spoke with his MLA today, apparently there will be an announcement on the 7b proposal this morning

[RyoTHC]

Friend of mine spoke with his MLA today, apparently there will be an announcement on the 7b proposal this morning

thanks for the heads up, I just rushed out to get some lube before hand, so it hurts less..
went in my first region 7 hunt last year, didn’t tag a moose or elk but saw more moose than ever before and the biggest bull elk I’ve laid eyes on.. we were seeing a half dozen moose a day at least.. handful of spikers… just generally lots of moose….

[wideopenthrottle]

just checked...still says this

Wildlife data collection and decisions supporting Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) are ongoing. The opening date for 2022 Fall LEH applications will be announced as soon as possible. Please check back here for updates.

The 2022/23 LEH synopsis will be available on or before the opening date for 2022 Fall LEH applications.

[Fella]

just checked...still says this

Wildlife data collection and decisions supporting Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) are ongoing. The opening date for 2022 Fall LEH applications will be announced as soon as possible. Please check back here for updates.

The 2022/23 LEH synopsis will be available on or before the opening date for 2022 Fall LEH applications.
Well could be the MLA blowing smoke to get my buddy off his back then

[3than]

There we have it.

https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/fort-st-john/hunting-closures-regulation-changes-announced-in-northeast-bc-5389458?fbclid=IwAR1q3ELGObe9rf6VAC2h7TXBiDhMhaYgY jxIzVulLWe7qvr7nKRbQhCPkhg (https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/fort-st-john/hunting-closures-regulation-changes-announced-in-northeast-bc-5389458?fbclid=IwAR1q3ELGObe9rf6VAC2h7TXBiDhMhaYgY jxIzVulLWe7qvr7nKRbQhCPkhg)

[Iron Sighted]

Not that a single one of us is surprised by this news, it was decided long before they chose to have a public consultation period, that was just a formality done to make it seem like they actually care and listen to stakeholders.

[Ron.C]

Not that a single one of us is surprised by this news, it was decided long before they chose to have a public consultation period, that was just a formality done to make it seem like they actually care and listen to stakeholders.

Fully agree.

[IronNoggin]

Hunting closures, regulation changes announced in Northeast B.C.

https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/fort-st-john/hunting-closures-regulation-changes-announced-in-northeast-bc-5389458

Lawyer says Lock & Load...

[bruteforce17]

Looks like region 6 just got a whole lot busier..

[Ron.C]

Looks like region 6 just got a whole lot busier..

Yep. You think that will affect the 2023 Reg 6 Moose/Bou GOS? My bet is yes.

We have our first fly in booked this year (reg 6 caribou). Sad to say, might also be our last opportunity.

[bruteforce17]

Absolutely, it was busy up there last year. More guys hunt 7 then 6 so I can only imagine how many people will be making their way to dease and area. The Indians there will be even more thrilled and I’m sure that area will be closed within a year as well.

[walks with deer]

Hunting closures, regulation changes announced in Northeast B.C.

https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/fort-st-john/hunting-closures-regulation-changes-announced-in-northeast-bc-5389458

Lawyer says Lock & Load...

Please explain there is no issue with sustainable caribou harvest in the MK this is beyond shit..
Please explain how we push back.

[ElectricDyck]

Is Haida Gwaii now closed to all hunting or is this a facebook rumour?

[bighornbob]

Is Haida Gwaii now closed to all hunting or is this a facebook rumour?

I believe is was quoted for those applying for Permit to Accompany only people and not regular hunters just those wanting to bring in relatives to hunt the area.

BHB

[IronNoggin]

Please explain there is no issue with sustainable caribou harvest in the MK this is beyond shit..
Please explain how we push back.

I will be doing just that shortly.
The legal team is visiting the matter now.
When they have a firm plan, they will engage.
At that point we will need a fair bit of help.
I cannot bear the associated costs alone.
There have been some who have stepped up already.
Likely a Go Fund Me route or similar...

Stay tuned...

Nog

[upperleftcoaster]

I will be doing just that shortly.
The legal team is visiting the matter now.
When they have a firm plan, they will engage.
At that point we will need a fair bit of help.
I cannot bear the associated costs alone.
There have been some who have stepped up already.
Likely a Go Fund Me route or similar...

Stay tuned...

Nog

keep us posted - I’m happy to help.

[Ohwildwon]

Time for a class action law suit, any lawyers on here?

[stoneramhunter]

Wondering what suggestions hunters could put forward too help the decline of certain species. I would suggest that the easy access to some areas especially for moose is a factor maybe there is a solution in this regard that works for everyone.

[walks with deer]

I will be doing just that shortly.
The legal team is visiting the matter now.
When they have a firm plan, they will engage.
At that point we will need a fair bit of help.
I cannot bear the associated costs alone.
There have been some who have stepped up already.
Likely a Go Fund Me route or similar...

Stay tuned...

Nog
Appreciate your efforts and time invested... keep me posted and i will rally support...

If we dont try we can not cry...

[walks with deer]

Wondering what suggestions hunters could put forward too help the decline of certain species. I would suggest that the easy access to some areas especially for moose is a factor maybe there is a solution in this regard that works for everyone.

Stoneramhunter.. if you live up to your name you will understand most the areas are not drive in and there is no drive in caribou. this is emotion based like the gbear hunt we are being railroaded we have to push back for our kids or give trudeau your guns and bows and buy his over priced store bought garbage.

[walks with deer]

Appreciate your efforts and time invested... keep me posted and i will rally support...

If we dont try we can not cry...

Ps matt you where very professional on point and educated during the liberal meeting its time to send those guys a follow up aswell.

[stoneramhunter]

Stoneramhunter.. if you live up to your name you will understand most the areas are not drive in and there is no drive in caribou. this is emotion based like the gbear hunt we are being railroaded we have to push back for our kids or give trudeau your guns and bows and buy his over priced store bought garbage.

I live up to my name and this is not emotion based. As is stated i was referring to "easy access to some areas" Since you brought up driving, in regards to moose when they opened up the husky rd by sikanni the first year it was an absolute slaughter on moose and continued to be easy to bag a moose but to a lesser degree each year till we are where we are today hit and miss in the area. that' s a no brainer . All the access roads around pink mountain another area. Nevis valley another area. i could go on and on but im only referencing easy access spots. I don't pretend to have a solution but there may come a time when it will be rotating zones of hunting to give some areas a chance to recover. if not we could see on going limited entry that could very well go on for years denying a chance to some to never getting a chance to hunt moose and or other species.

[leadpillproductions]

Keep us informed we definitely need to fight back

[Sitkaspruce]

I live up to my name and this is not emotion based. As is stated i was referring to "easy access to some areas" Since you brought up driving, in regards to moose when they opened up the husky rd by sikanni the first year it was an absolute slaughter on moose and continued to be easy to bag a moose but to a lesser degree each year till we are where we are today hit and miss in the area. that' s a no brainer . All the access roads around pink mountain another area. Nevis valley another area. i could go on and on but im only referencing easy access spots. I don't pretend to have a solution but there may come a time when it will be rotating zones of hunting to give some areas a chance to recover. if not we could see on going limited entry that could very well go on for years denying a chance to some to never getting a chance to hunt moose and or other species.

Regulated hunting with an antler restriction is not the "problem" up here. Moose are doing fine in most areas of the Peace. We don't need to go to LEH. This is pure social management.

We already have access closures on the easy access spots. It's the slow death by a thousand cuts as the government, with a big push by the FN, has slowly closed MU's during the rut, forcing tax payer licensed hunters into smaller and smaller areas. With no rational reasons, they closed the east side of the hwy from Oct 1-15. Now we have most of the Peace closed Oct 1-15.

You think we should add more closures???

It is not resident hunters who impact moose in the Peace...and LEH is not going to increase or make more moose.

Cheers

SS

[walks with deer]

Ok we are in agreement dont close the hunt close the road. I can agree all day.but if resource extraction is complete it should be on the extractors to rehabiltate the land... fyi moose population on roads named disnt droo from restricted hunting it would have declined by unregulated harvest and predator travel corridors. Do some homework and reply.

[DJK]

I will be doing just that shortly.
The legal team is visiting the matter now.
When they have a firm plan, they will engage.
At that point we will need a fair bit of help.
I cannot bear the associated costs alone.
There have been some who have stepped up already.
Likely a Go Fund Me route or similar...

Stay tuned...

Nog

Yes, please keep us updated here, more than happy to contribute/help in any way I can. Pissing and moaning at each other on a hunting forum will accomplish nothing, we've got to stand together and take the fight to them.

[stoneramhunter]

Ok we are in agreement dont close the hunt close the road. I can agree all day.but if resource extraction is complete it should be on the extractors to rehabiltate the land... fyi moose population on roads named disnt droo from restricted hunting it would have declined by unregulated harvest and predator travel corridors. Do some homework and reply.

Do some homework and reply??? have you been into any of theses easy access areas? I been thru all theses areas going back 50 years on my way in sheep hunting and i can assure you there are far less moose now than there were in years past. not just from predator corridors or lack of habitat when they opened it up to hunters who can drive in it was easy access to the game. I don't think you need to be a specialist in any discipline to recognize that it would have an impact. im not advocating leh or against easy access just suggesting perhaps rotating closures on some very easy access areas might be a consideration . so i guess my homework is seeing it with my own eyes over a long period of time.

[stoneramhunter]

Regulated hunting with an antler restriction is not the "problem" up here. Moose are doing fine in most areas of the Peace. We don't need to go to LEH. This is pure social management.

We already have access closures on the easy access spots. It's the slow death by a thousand cuts as the government, with a big push by the FN, has slowly closed MU's during the rut, forcing tax payer licensed hunters into smaller and smaller areas. With no rational reasons, they closed the east side of the hwy from Oct 1-15. Now we have most of the Peace closed Oct 1-15.

You think we should add more closures???

It is not resident hunters who impact moose in the Peace...and LEH is not going to increase or make more moose.

Cheers

SS

I'm assuming you live in or around region 7. I had a ranch for many years just north of Dawson Creek . As a sheep hunter Ive been hunting northern B.C. for over 50 years pretty well all the drainage's. Im not sure what your definition of moose numbers are fine in most parts of the Peace region means but I can say with full confidence that the moose population is nowhere near what they were years ago.

[Harvest the Land]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=hcTXxkhomOo

[Retiredguy]

Harvest the Land... ????

[IronNoggin]

Ps matt you where very professional on point and educated during the liberal meeting its time to send those guys a follow up aswell.

Good point. On it...

[walks with deer]

Do some homework and reply??? have you been into any of theses easy access areas? I been thru all theses areas going back 50 years on my way in sheep hunting and i can assure you there are far less moose now than there were in years past. not just from predator corridors or lack of habitat when they opened it up to hunters who can drive in it was easy access to the game. I don't think you need to be a specialist in any discipline to recognize that it would have an impact. im not advocating leh or against easy access just suggesting perhaps rotating closures on some very easy access areas might be a consideration . so i guess my homework is seeing it with my own eyes over a long period of time.

Moose numbers are down you bet! But its not from hunting its predators unregulated harvest and general habitat destruction. Restore habitat,knock the dogs back,quit spraying the forest,rip out some access points where unregulated harvest keeps happening...

Fracking took water out of the area and sealed it in the ground.. reducing wetlands made quad access like a grid paper aswell as for predator traps they seeded the lines with clover causing a influcts of other ungulates causing a robust wolf population and the moose where having troubles keeping calves which is the new recruitment. I am not complaining with the elk around but moose and mule have a troubles raising young.

Habitat restoration is the problem i have had beers with the old bioligist for the peace of 30 years spend a couple hours at the steamboat mountain pull out with the current bioligist and have followed up with phone calls...
Across the board we need a new group like the freshwater fisheries society that is incharge of wildlife
Promotes and protects wildlife and habitat all bioligist work for them all tags and descions through them all predator control through them.

[Walking Buffalo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=hcTXxkhomOo

I'm stuck in the city and cranky today.
This just made it worse.

Regarding Sheep and LEH, I personally warned Jesse a dozen years ago that this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet and others through agenda based and biased "science". The response, " I don't care"....

And here we are. With Festa-Bianchet holding hands with the BCWF.


Fishy.....

[Wentrot]

I'm stuck in the city and cranky today.
This just made it worse.

Regarding Sheep and LEH, I personally warned Jesse a dozen years ago that this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet and others through agenda based and biased "science". The response, " I don't care"....

And here we are. With Festa-Bianchet holding hands with the BCWF.


Fishy.....

Bingo………! The lines have been blurred for a long time unfortunately.

[Rob Chipman]

I'm stuck in the city and cranky today.
This just made it worse.

Regarding Sheep and LEH, I personally warned Jesse a dozen years ago that this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet and others through agenda based and biased "science". The response, " I don't care"....

And here we are. With Festa-Bianchet holding hands with the BCWF.


Fishy.....


For those who haven't watched the video take a gander from 3:56 onwards for comments on R4 LEH for bighorns.


If anyone wants to argue that this development is the fault of Jesse and the BCWF holding hands with Festa-Bianchet I think they have to reconcile the following:

"We hosted a webinar a couple of months ago on the province's proposal and then on his [Festa-Bianchet's] perspective of what's going on up there. Again, one of the best experts in North America in terms of sheep ecology, certainly his findings were not consistent with the proposal that's been put forward. The province decided to move forward to go to LEH in the Kootenay region..."



"his findings were not consistent with the proposal" vs "this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet".

Fishy, indeed.

On the one hand you have people speaking in public and on the record, and on the other hand you have.....

[HappyJack]

I'm assuming you live in or around region 7. I had a ranch for many years just north of Dawson Creek . As a sheep hunter Ive been hunting northern B.C. for over 50 years pretty well all the drainage's. Im not sure what your definition of moose numbers are fine in most parts of the Peace region means but I can say with full confidence that the moose population is nowhere near what they were years ago.

I agree moose numbers aren't what they were years ago, although we don't seem to have a problem seeing moose when hunting the Peace. You've hunted up there for a number of years, do you recall the big moose die off the year of the 20 foot snow drifts? The season after that winter the moose numbers were way way down and they have been slowly making a comeback since. They probably would have come back way faster if there weren't so many bears and wolves out there eating all the calves. When you're out and about you should never see more bears than moose, and when you can park on a high spot and hear packs of wolves howling in every direction there is a predator problem don't you think?

[stoneramhunter]

I agree moose numbers aren't what they were years ago, although we don't seem to have a problem seeing moose when hunting the Peace. You've hunted up there for a number of years, do you recall the big moose die off the year of the 20 foot snow drifts? The season after that winter the moose numbers were way way down and they have been slowly making a comeback since. They probably would have come back way faster if there weren't so many bears and wolves out there eating all the calves. When you're out and about you should never see more bears than moose, and when you can park on a high spot and hear packs of wolves howling in every direction there is a predator problem don't you think?

My ranch bordered the Peace north of Rolla on the Galata creek road area. We have had several times that the winter conditions decimated the wildlife especially deer. in particular when the snow would melt then freeze then snow on top and they could not get to feed. At times I would have hundreds of deer in my fields and after a bad winter with the conditions i described id see a small percentage of the deer remaining. so yes weather conditions will have an impact. As to Predators theres a factor as well. As is super easy access by hunters to certain areas thats what i was referring to. Black bears see them all the time and and have for as long as i can remember numbers dont seem to change much on them .For years i had moose elk and deer on my property along with bears all healthy numbers escept for the times mentioned above.

[HappyJack]

We owned land, with easy access all around us, We saw lots of moose and deer until the wolves showed up in big numbers so it's obvious to me that predators are far more detrimental than easy access is. Just look at the Tuchodi and all the elk that were there....and then the wolves started eating everything.

I don't totally buy into the easy access agenda, saw lots of hunters riding around on atv's and most of them never get an animal.

[stoneramhunter]

We owned land, with easy access all around us, We saw lots of moose and deer until the wolves showed up in big numbers so it's obvious to me that predators are far more detrimental than easy access is. Just look at the Tuchodi and all the elk that were there....and then the wolves started eating everything.

I don't totally buy into the easy access agenda, saw lots of hunters riding around on atv's and most of them never get an animal.


Since you bring up the Tuchodi I think that most people would agree that the tuchodi was always inudated with tons of jet boats and a favorite area for hunters to go so that speaks volumes. Elk in tuchodi has been on the down swing for years and years and has been over hunted. its more that just predators which factor in.

[HappyJack]

Since you bring up the Tuchodi I think that most people would agree that the tuchodi was always inudated with tons of jet boats and a favorite area for hunters to go so that speaks volumes. Elk in tuchodi has been on the down swing for years and years and has been over hunted. its more that just predators which factor in.

In the evening you could observe elk feeding on the open hillsides, the next year you didn't see one, must have been a lot of poaching going on between the hunting seasons to reduce the elk numbers so fast??

[stoneramhunter]

In the evening you could observe elk feeding on the open hillsides, the next year you didn't see one, must have been a lot of poaching going on between the hunting seasons to reduce the elk numbers so fast??

Im not sure if your understanding what im saying. It wasnt over one year that the numbers in the tuchodi area were diminishing it has been diminishing for years. and im not saying that predators is not a factor. I am saying that tuchodi has been hit hard by hunters year after year and i do mean hard. perhaps you dont agree thats fine . I think that its no secret how may boats head up towards the lakes. this is not an attack on jet boaters this is not an attack on hunters this is not a denial of predators this is my first hand observation. taking my horses from either the chizca towards the tuchodi or down to the gatho when im in the tuchhodi area i see boat after boat and hunter after hunter it is a very busy drainage.

[leadpillproductions]

We need to do our part with predators.
But I honestly don't think it's going to matter or help .
We are loosing our rights more and more every year.

[high horse Hal]

Im not sure if your understanding what im saying. It wasnt over one year that the numbers in the tuchodi area were diminishing it has been diminishing for years. and im not saying that predators is not a factor. I am saying that tuchodi has been hit hard by hunters year after year and i do mean hard. perhaps you dont agree thats fine . I think that its no secret how may boats head up towards the lakes. this is not an attack on jet boaters this is not an attack on hunters this is not a denial of predators this is my first hand observation. taking my horses from either the chizca towards the tuchodi or down to the gatho when im in the tuchhodi area i see boat after boat and hunter after hunter it is a very busy drainage.Not enough to make changes to the antler restrictions though........must be something else impacting recruitment

[Walking Buffalo]

For those who haven't watched the video take a gander from 3:56 onwards for comments on R4 LEH for bighorns.


If anyone wants to argue that this development is the fault of Jesse and the BCWF holding hands with Festa-Bianchet I think they have to reconcile the following:

"We hosted a webinar a couple of months ago on the province's proposal and then on his [Festa-Bianchet's] perspective of what's going on up there. Again, one of the best experts in North America in terms of sheep ecology, certainly his findings were not consistent with the proposal that's been put forward. The province decided to move forward to go to LEH in the Kootenay region..."



"his findings were not consistent with the proposal" vs "this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet".

Fishy, indeed.

On the one hand you have people speaking in public and on the record, and on the other hand you have.....





I'm sure Jesse is pissed that sheep are now on LEH.
He really did care that We could hunt them. That's what mattered.
Didn't care at all that bad science was being used to kill our hunting opportunity.
This was very naïve.

Have you looked into which researchers are promoting the continued reduction of sheep hunting?
Who is their mentor, often their partner on the papers used to lobby governments to close hunting opportunity?
By your response on this topic, I'm sure you have yet to develop an understanding of what these people including Bianchet did to eliminate Sheep hunting.
Very tricky, very secretive and manipulative.

Bianchet deserves ZERO trust.
The WSF knows this, the WSFAb knows this.
The BCWF champions him....

Is the BCWF now being naive?
Could the BCWF not attract or be bothered with one of the many competent researchers that opposed Bianchet and gangs previous efforts?
Fishy.

[Rob Chipman]

I'm sure Jesse is pissed that sheep are now on LEH.
He really did care that We could hunt them. That's what mattered.
Didn't care at all that bad science was being used to kill our hunting opportunity.
This was very naïve.

Have you looked into which researchers are promoting the continued reduction of sheep hunting?
Who is their mentor, often their partner on the papers used to lobby governments to close hunting opportunity?
By your response on this topic, I'm sure you have yet to develop an understanding of what these people including Bianchet did to eliminate Sheep hunting.
Very tricky, very secretive and manipulative.

Bianchet deserves ZERO trust.
The WSF knows this, the WSFAb knows this.
The BCWF champions him....

Is the BCWF now being naive?
Could the BCWF not attract or be bothered with one of the many competent researchers that opposed Bianchet and gangs previous efforts?
Fishy.


You're not reconciling what Jesse appears to be saying (Festa-Bianchet's findings are not consistent with the actions proposed by the government) with what you appear to be saying ("Festa-Bianchet is getting exactly what he wants"); you're just doubling down on your accusations.

Make your case and show some receipts.

Otherwise you seem to be implying that more than twelve years of BCWF presidents and BoD members were mislead, tricked or complicit in doing something that none of them actually did, and you seem to be implying that Jesse was either complicit or tricked. More, you're implying that BCWF, including the current crop of directors, were mislead, tricked or complicit in doing something that none of us actually did.

You're doing the same thing you did last time when I asked for evidence: you're suggesting that I don't understand and that I should go look into things. Don't refer vaguely to Festa-Bianchet and his gang getting rid of hunting opportunity 12 years ago. Just provide some evidence for your accusation about the current move to LEH, or explain why I'm misunderstanding you.

[Walking Buffalo]

You're not reconciling what Jesse appears to be saying (Festa-Bianchet's findings are not consistent with the actions proposed by the government) with what you appear to be saying ("Festa-Bianchet is getting exactly what he wants"); you're just doubling down on your accusations.

Make your case and show some receipts.

Otherwise you seem to be implying that more than twelve years of BCWF presidents and BoD members were mislead, tricked or complicit in doing something that none of them actually did, and you seem to be implying that Jesse was either complicit or tricked. More, you're implying that BCWF, including the current crop of directors, were mislead, tricked or complicit in doing something that none of us actually did.

You're doing the same thing you did last time when I asked for evidence: you're suggesting that I don't understand and that I should go look into things. Don't refer vaguely to Festa-Bianchet and his gang getting rid of hunting opportunity 12 years ago. Just provide some evidence for your accusation about the current move to LEH, or explain why I'm misunderstanding you.

I've made a direct offer to help inform you and the BCWF about Bianchet and the Genetic Harm gang,
and you got defensive, wouldn't respond in any other way than to scramble to post here that you are right.

Others here that have followed the Bianchet Genetic Harm gang's work for the last 20 years have messaged me that they couldn't understand why you responded to me as you did.
I don't get it either except, couldn't help them with an answer other than an understanding of Ego.

Nah, I don't need to do the work or "make my case" to convince you. It's the BCWF's job to know this stuff.

I have twenty years into this issue already, helped elucidate and motivate several Hunting organizations and Researchers in Canada and the US to see the grave potential harm these people are causing. The troops rallied, piles of hours and $ were spent. Years later Bianchet has technically recanted on some of his claims die to our work. And now the BCWF thinks that Bianceht is their ally.

If you and the BCWF can't and continue to be unwilling to figure out who Bianchet is, who his disciples are, and what they have done already, what their intentions are.....
Naïve, lazy, unmotivated, egotistical, complicit come to mind...... I don't know, probably only one of these, but many sure tired of the attitude.

I'm sorry for the Hunters of BC, they are the one being harmed by the unwillingness of the BCWF to figure this out.

[Rackmastr]

From what I saw, BCWF attempted to use Marcos information to try and combat the LEH proposal in the Kootenays. Problem now is he also pointed towards stone sheep in his presentation that the Fed hosted and suggested that there are concerns there.

My guess is you see the govt use Marcos opinion on stone sheep as evidence as to why stone sheep should be put on LEH.

Seems like we lost on the Kootenay conversation (which sure looks like they already had their minds made up and weren't willing to look at alternatives) and likely a good chance we will lose again when the conversation shifts to Northern stone sheep.

I am not as well versed as WB is on Marco, but I know enough about him that I didn't like the idea of where things were going when he started being the voice used to discuss sheep mgmt in BC. Have seen enough from Alberta to draw my conclusions on his end goals.

[Rob Chipman]

I think you misunderstand, and I think the fact that you say it's not your job to convince me about Festa-Bianchet demonstrates your confusion.


I'm not disputing your opinion of Festa-Bianchet, or of BCWF, or of Jesse, or of the dynamic that you claim to see at work when you reference "this outcome was being sought by the likes of Festa-Bianchet and others through agenda based and biased "science".

How can anyone dispute something so vague?

You might be right. There might, indeed, be something fishy going on. That's what I'd like you to be more precise about.

I'm asking you to be more precise with your accusation that the LEH change in R4 is a somehow a result of BCWF holding hands with Festa-Bianchet, and indeed acting as his champion, in a manner that is fishy.

It's a pretty serious charge if it's got any validity, but, again, it's a very vague charge and Rackmastr contributes to making my point when he say, about you: "My guess is you [Walking Buffalo] see the government using Marcos opinion on stone sheep...."

Resident hunters and anglers have a pretty big challenge in front of us in terms of pursuing conservation/restoration and maintaining access to fish and wildlife. Government isn't looking out for us. Industry isn't looking out for us. First Nations aren't looking out for us. We're on our own.

BCWF is the biggest grassroots organization trying to address that dual challenge, but we need to get bigger, stronger and more effective. A drive by smear hurts our chances of growth, but a valid criticism that can be corrected helps.

I get that you don't like Festa-Bianchet, and that's fine. What I don't get is why you'd take your dislike of Festa-Bianchet and turn it into a drive by smear of the BCWF and then not clarify your position.

How is your accusation vague? Let me count the ways:

1) What do you mean by "BCWF"? Where on the spectrum between 43 some odd thousand members, on one extreme, and a single individual, Jesse, on the other, does your definition of BCWF lie? Is it just Jesse? Is it Jesse and the Board of Directors? Is it everyone in BCWF?
2) What do you mean by "holding hands"? Are you imagining that Festa-Bianchet is in some sort of advisory position to the Board? That BCWF has adopted his agenda?
3) What do you mean by "fishy"? Are you saying that Festa-Bianchet wants less hunting opportunity or wants to see sheep on LEH and that his views are being championed and advanced by BCWF?

The only thing you've precisely defined ins Festa-Bianchet.

I get that he is a controversial figure for a lot of sheep hunters. OK, fine.

However, he is merely one of many, many scientists that BCWF provides an audience to. Bruce McLellan, Chloe Wright, Lori Daniels, Robert Gray, Kyle Wilson, Carl Walters, Siobhan Darlington, Kate Nelson, Adam Ford, Scott Hinch, Kelly Proffitt, Chris Proctor, Sam Foster, Sophie Gilbert, Evelyn Merrill....the list goes on and on.

How you conclude that there is some sort of fishy relationship between BCWF and just one of the scientists we engage with is beyond me. Nobody at BCWF, to the best of my knowledge, advocated putting those sheep on LEH. I'd like you to explain yourself, because nothing I've witnessed supports your accusation and in fact everything I've witnessed is in conflict with your accusation. If your accusation is groundless I'd like to demonstrate that, or at least demonstrate that you won't back it up with any facts.

Again, *nothing* I've witnessed at BCWF aligns with your accusation. Maybe you're familiar with some sort of information on how BCWF operates that I'm unaware of.


Getting you to explain yourself in terms of your vague accusation is a win-win, right? I mean, whether you're saying that every member in BCWF, or just the BoD, or even one single individual are/is up to something fishy with Festa-Bianchet the fact remains: if you're correct and there is something fishy going on then that something fishy can be addressed. If you make yourself clear on what you're saying I'll give you credit, and if you have a valid point I'll apologize for busting your chops. If you identify an actual problem I'll acknowledge that and see if we can solve it.

If you're not right, and you're just throwing out terms like "complicit" along with "fishy"? Again, demonstrating that is a win for anyone concerned with conservation/restoration of the resource and access to it.

So, when you say BCWF is holding hands with Festa-Bianchet and are up to something fishy, who, exactly, are you accusing and what are you accusing them of? That's not a big ask.

[bruteforce17]

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/sports-recreation-arts-and-culture/outdoor-recreation/fishing-and-hunting/hunting/limited-entry-hunting/leh_2022-2023.pdf

[jshansen]

Looks like I got to update my credentials I guess. It says to click on "Apply for new credentials" tab under profile options but when I do it only gives me options to upload proof of indian status for license exemption.. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[IronNoggin]

Looks like I got to update my credentials I guess. It says to click on "Apply for new credentials" tab under profile options but when I do it only gives me options to upload proof of indian status for license exemption.. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Go into your Fish & Wildlife Profile.

On the left side there will be a listing "Profile Options".

Under that is a link to: "Update Residency".

Click on that and follow the instructions.

Cheers,
Nog

[jshansen]

Thanks Nog

[Foxton Gundogs]

Anyone thinking about the new 2 tag any sex Elk ARCHERY draw in R1-5, it is pretty much all private land and it is almost impossible to ge permission. Be ashame tk get a draw and not be able to get permission permission.

[Rackmastr]

It's a pretty serious charge if it's got any validity, but, again, it's a very vague charge and Rackmastr contributes to making my point when he say, about you: "My guess is you [Walking Buffalo] see the government using Marcos opinion on stone sheep...."


For clarity, I did not mean WB when I said 'you'. I meant 'we' will likely see Marco's data/opinion used as leverage in moving stone's sheep to LEH. Thats 100% my opinion without any insinuation about what WB or you think. Its just how I see things playing out. I believe Marco will likely end up as a fox in the henhouse on this one, with his opinion/data being used to move stone's sheep to LEH.

No idea how you or WB see it. Just correcting your assessment of what I meant in my post.

[Rob Chipman]

For clarity, I did not mean WB when I said 'you'. I meant 'we' will likely see Marco's data/opinion used as leverage in moving stone's sheep to LEH. Thats 100% my opinion without any insinuation about what WB or you think. Its just how I see things playing out. I believe Marco will likely end up as a fox in the henhouse on this one, with his opinion/data being used to move stone's sheep to LEH.

No idea how you or WB see it. Just correcting your assessment of what I meant in my post.

Fair enough. Im more worried about the allegation that there's something fishy going on at BCWF and that the LEH move in R4 is related to Festa-Bianchet having some sort of undue influence.

[Rackmastr]

Fair enough. Im more worried about the allegation that there's something fishy going on at BCWF and that the LEH move in R4 is related to Festa-Bianchet having some sort of undue influence.

Lol k, you guys continue on then.

[Bugle M In]

I think there is a separate thread on the r4 Leh sheep.
I don’t think Jesse aka goat guy was in ever in support of r4 sheep going Leh.
He has always come across as someone who is trying to find a way in assisting the creation of more game for us all to have more opportunity, not less.
Whether his opinions on the matter are correct or not is up to everyone’s personal opinion I suppose.
I believe J-T had direct conversation with the bio about it.
Sounds like the bio was not to happy about the situation either.
Beyond that, I can’t say anything more.
Was it the bio’s solution??? don’t know?
Was it higher up the chain of command?
Dont know, but more than likely.
Seems to be an ongoing theme all over the province.
So, that means it goes up much higher.

Will it make a difference, I doubt it.
Who losses, well that’s simple, it’s the resident hunter.
Who benefits, well in my opinion, the GO’s.
And that usually shows thru the veil between those who support the Leh and who don’t.