EatWild podcast on reg 7 changes

[high horse Hal]

https://eatwild.podbean.com/?action=openPodcast&podcastId=pbblog1987507&podcastIdTag=7y936&utm_campaign=u_share_pp&utm_medium=dlink&utm_source=u_share

https://pbcdn1.podbean.com/imglogo/ep-logo/pbblog1987507/Posters_1_6h1y2.png
EatWild 64 - Treaty Rights, Reconciliation, and Wildlife Allocation - Implications of the Yahey vs. BC ruling (https://eatwild.podbean.com/e/eatwild-64-treaty-rights-reconciliation-and-wildlife-allocation-implications-of-the-yedhey-vs-bc-ruling/) March 14, 2022
Today I am sitting with Spencer Greening La’goot, Indigenous scholar and Jesse Zeman, executive director of the BCWF to discuss a tough topic.
The news of restrictions for resident hunters as a result of the BC Government losing the Yahey vs. British Columbia court case has the potential to cause polarizing views. Pitting resident hunters against Indigenous Nations in a perceived competition for “the right to hunt and conducting one’s way of life” is not only dangerous in its potential for hindering reconciliation efforts, but it effectively takes the focus off the main issue: habitat loss.
My guests provide the context of this court decision, share important insight into how it was interpreted by the BC Government when implementing the measures that were just announced, and together we explore alternative strategies to support reconciliation.
The proposal from the BC Government is open for feedback until March 23 at midnight.

[HappyJack]

""but it effectively takes the focus off the main issue: habitat loss.""

I thought the main issue was the NDP making backroom deals?

[high horse Hal]

Term should be 'industrial encroachment' in place of 'habitat loss'
so easy to garble messages, wording is key

[HappyJack]

Term should be 'industrial encroachment' in place of 'habitat loss'
so easy to garble messages, wording is key

That makes more sense, from what I've seen the moose habitat is pretty good up there in God's country, with the exception of the herbicide spraying, that stuff is poison.

[BULLNUTTS]

Tricky and Slick there ehh? . Thought the meat n potatoes in the air was - The food missing from dinner tables??????? As far as conflicts go?? Let's take YOUR RIGHTS AWAY AND SEE HOW YOU FEEL?? BROTHA. Still wanna be freinds? Haha

[high horse Hal]

Sounds like Gov't haad a choice to do some micro managing to ease impacts on indigen hunts for food, but decided to throw resident hunters to the wolves and use a blanket rule change for the whole area
I bet a lot of FN see the error by Gov't like LaGoot alludes to

[canishunter22-250]

Wow that was hard to listen to. Right off the bat the FN guy frames the situation in such a way that anyone who wants to stand up for resident hunters is basically an asshole who's only thinking of his own selfish interests. Listening to him it's pretty clear what the FN vision is for fish and wildlife - it certainly doesn't include the non-indigenous component of this province in any meaningful way.

As a guy who lives in the bush 1/2 an hour north of Fort St John, it felt nice to have my lifestyle and culture summed up as "the typical resident is a guy who lives in Richmond and goes moose hunting for one week a year" (and essentially has no use for the land beyond that). Thanks..

[dapesche]

Wow that was hard to listen to. Right off the bat the FN guy frames the situation in such a way that anyone who wants to stand up for resident hunters is basically an asshole who's only thinking of his own selfish interests. Listening to him it's pretty clear what the FN vision is for fish and wildlife - it certainly doesn't include the non-indigenous component of this province in any meaningful way.

As a guy who lives in the bush 1/2 an hour north of Fort St John, it felt nice to have my lifestyle and culture summed up as "the typical resident is a guy who lives in Richmond and goes moose hunting for one week a year" (and essentially has no use for the land beyond that). Thanks..

yes. Very consistent messaging across the board.

Just like Trudeau and his middle class and the people working very hard to become part of it.

[HappyJack]

Wow that was hard to listen to. Right off the bat the FN guy frames the situation in such a way that anyone who wants to stand up for resident hunters is basically an asshole who's only thinking of his own selfish interests. Listening to him it's pretty clear what the FN vision is for fish and wildlife - it certainly doesn't include the non-indigenous component of this province in any meaningful way.

As a guy who lives in the bush 1/2 an hour north of Fort St John, it felt nice to have my lifestyle and culture summed up as "the typical resident is a guy who lives in Richmond and goes moose hunting for one week a year" (and essentially has no use for the land beyond that). Thanks..

Is it wrong to say the majority of resident hunters fall into that exact description? I think it's fairly accurate, and judging from the garbage some of 'outdoorsmen' leave behind it's obvious they don't a hoot about the land either. But it's wrong to paint all of us with the same brush, from my observations the bush swine that toss beer cans all over are in the minority.

[canishunter22-250]

Is it wrong to say the majority of resident hunters fall into that exact description? I think it's fairly accurate, and judging from the garbage some of 'outdoorsmen' leave behind it's obvious they don't a hoot about the land either. But it's wrong to paint all of us with the same brush, from my observations the bush swine that toss beer cans all over are in the minority.

Sure, there is certainly a component of hunters that are in that category. Lots of resident hunters live on the land and have their culture intricately tied to it. Just the same as many natives. For him to suggest that resident hunters losing their piece of the pie just simply means they'll have to find something else to do for that one week a year is ignoring a lot of British Columbians' culture and just stomping out a big part of many, many people's lives.

[adriaticum]

Everyone needs to understand and accept a simple fact that people and wildlife don't mix.
The more people you have, the less wildlife you will have.
The question is how to deal with that.

[bearvalley]

Everyone needs to understand and accept a simple fact that people and wildlife don't mix.
The more people you have, the less wildlife you will have.
The question is how to deal with that.

Grow more wildlife.
That’s the fix, and it needs done province wide.
The consumptive use of wildlife is down but we’re simply fighting over the scraps that are left.
At one time BC had 160,000 licensed resident hunters….today we’re on the upside of 100,000.
Decades ago, FN’s relied on sustenance hunting …they still do, in areas and to an extent but not like in the past.

The province has failed to put a value on wildlife.
ICBC sees wildlife as a cost.
Farmers see wildlife as a cost.
That’s just 2 examples of the devaluation.

How do we fix this problem…. Pull everyone together, make some changes so there’s an incentive to have the thriving numbers of ungulates that we had 20 or 30 years ago.

Predator management of all predators, hiway fencing, burns, programs that make farmers and ranchers want to participate in growing deer & elk numbers….that’s what makes ungulates.

If we fix the problem of lack of game in the lower two thirds of BC the issues like the present one in 7B will go away.

The hunting community are pretty sad contributors to the solution of problems when only 2% can wade in against shutting down northern hunting.
But thats double the 1% that supported keeping the grizzly hunt.

[high horse Hal]

Fish and game clubs need to step up their communications on this issue, if others are anything like our local
cut and paste in an email does nothing to spread the message

[bearvalley]

Fish and game clubs need to step up their communications on this issue, if others are anything like our local
cut and paste in an email does nothing to spread the message

Exactly!
Where are the Town Halls and protests we saw over a handful of allocation shifts a few years ago?
We’re about to lose the ability to hunt the entire north and less than 2% of licensed hunters speak out.
Between the weak defence of the grizzly hunt and now this…hunters in this province better start looking at knitting as a pastime.

[Fella]

Exactly!
Where are the Town Halls and protests we saw over a handful of allocation shifts a few years ago?
We’re about to lose the ability to hunt the entire north and less than 2% of licensed hunters speak out.
Between the weak defence of the grizzly hunt and now this…hunters in this province better start looking at knitting as a pastime.
The folks that have signed things written letters and encouraged their buddies to get involved are the ones who really care about hunting, I guess those who can’t be bothered to get off their arses are simply hobbyists and will probably find something else to do once it’s gone.

[Imdone]

It's always been 5% do 95% of the work. Always will be. Pretty dam sad.

Then the 95% that have done nothing bitch and complain.

It's gotten to be old.

I'm one who can say " Told you so " years ago.

Government doesn't give a dam about 104,000 hunters, or its Fish, or its Wildlife.
We are not where most of the votes come from.

[Fella]

It's always been 5% do 95% of the work. Always will be. Pretty dam sad.

Then the 95% that have done nothing bitch and complain.

It's gotten to be old.

I'm one who can say " Told you so " years ago.

Government doesn't give a dam about 104,000 hunters, or its Fish, or its Wildlife.
We are not where most of the votes come from.
If 104000 hunters stood up and said something the government might listen. They certainly won’t listen if it’s only 1-2% of that number making any noise.

[IronNoggin]

If 104000 hunters stood up and said something the government might listen. They certainly won’t listen if it’s only 1-2% of that number making any noise.

Absolutely!!

Those that haven't GET ON with protecting our collective Hunting Heritage!!

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?169175-Action-needed-9-days-left-to-show-our-opposition-to-the-proposed-regulation-changes!

Nog

[kitnayakwa77]

I think it's important to remember the deadline is March 23 (I believe). Many people, myself included, haven't input comments yet but will. I am reading the Together for Wildlife Strategy and trying to put forward a reasoned thoughtful rationale using gov't own policy against them. But by all means people should be encouraged and notified!

[vinceb]

Thanks a lot for this great podcast and keeping the conversation positive.

[HappyJack]

Grow more wildlife.
That’s the fix, and it needs done province wide.
The consumptive use of wildlife is down but we’re simply fighting over the scraps that are left.
At one time BC had 160,000 licensed resident hunters….today we’re on the upside of 100,000.
Decades ago, FN’s relied on sustenance hunting …they still do, in areas and to an extent but not like in the past.

The province has failed to put a value on wildlife.
ICBC sees wildlife as a cost.
Farmers see wildlife as a cost.
That’s just 2 examples of the devaluation.

How do we fix this problem…. Pull everyone together, make some changes so there’s an incentive to have the thriving numbers of ungulates that we had 20 or 30 years ago.

Predator management of all predators, hiway fencing, burns, programs that make farmers and ranchers want to participate in growing deer & elk numbers….that’s what makes ungulates.

If we fix the problem of lack of game in the lower two thirds of BC the issues like the present one in 7B will go away.

The hunting community are pretty sad contributors to the solution of problems when only 2% can wade in against shutting down northern hunting.
But thats double the 1% that supported keeping the grizzly hunt.

Makes a lot of sense, although I fail to see how fixing the game populations in the lower two thirds of BC will stop the BC govt from shutting resident hunters out??

[LBM]

Grow more wildlife.
That’s the fix, and it needs done province wide.
The consumptive use of wildlife is down but we’re simply fighting over the scraps that are left.
At one time BC had 160,000 licensed resident hunters….today we’re on the upside of 100,000.
Decades ago, FN’s relied on sustenance hunting …they still do, in areas and to an extent but not like in the past.

The province has failed to put a value on wildlife.
ICBC sees wildlife as a cost.
Farmers see wildlife as a cost.
That’s just 2 examples of the devaluation.

How do we fix this problem…. Pull everyone together, make some changes so there’s an incentive to have the thriving numbers of ungulates that we had 20 or 30 years ago.

Predator management of all predators, hiway fencing, burns, programs that make farmers and ranchers want to participate in growing deer & elk numbers….that’s what makes ungulates.

If we fix the problem of lack of game in the lower two thirds of BC the issues like the present one in 7B will go away.

The hunting community are pretty sad contributors to the solution of problems when only 2% can wade in against shutting down northern hunting.
But thats double the 1% that supported keeping the grizzly hunt.

Sounds like your only concerned with ungulates so quit using the word /term wildlife doesnt sound like your concerned about wildlife.
People keep saying wildlife management has to be science based so kill predators is this the science based management there talking about.

[bearvalley]

Makes a lot of sense, although I fail to see how fixing the game populations in the lower two thirds of BC will stop the BC govt from shutting resident hunters out??

Who knows with the present government.
Maybe if other Regions such as 5 or 6 South still had thriving moose populations there’d be an ask to shut out licensed hunters there as well.

[bearvalley]

Sounds like your only concerned with ungulates so quit using the word /term wildlife doesnt sound like your concerned about wildlife.
People keep saying wildlife management has to be science based so kill predators is this the science based management there talking about.

We’ve got 2 choices LBM, come up with a management plan, and that includes all species or continue down the path of feast or famine and fighting over scraps.
Wolves, bears and other species have been given a free roll and ungulates have paid the price.
What steps do you think should be taken going forward?
Its easy to be a critic.

[high horse Hal]

You guys are loosing sight of the real problem with the proposal

This one is not about wildlife, has nothing to do with conservation

This proposal is purely a people control, reduce one group for the benefit of another group so industrial encroachment can continue unfettered

Resident hunters are being bargained off as a peace offering

There are better measures that could be implemented that would possibly have even better results , depending on how one looks at the so-called problem
but Gov't is taking the easy street, using a guillotine instead of a scalpel
This is creating a wedge between peoples of BC when Gov is usually talking about inclusion and less segregation

[Fella]

You guys are loosing sight of the real problem with the proposal

This one is not about wildlife, has nothing to do with conservation

This proposal is purely a people control, reduce one group for the benefit of another group so industrial encroachment can continue unfettered

Resident hunters are being bargained off as a peace offering

There are better measures that could be implemented that would possibly have even better results , depending on how one looks at the so-called problem
but Gov't is taking the easy street, using a guillotine instead of a scalpel
This is creating a wedge between peoples of BC when Gov is usually talking about inclusion and less segregation
Exactly this. Government is playing the mistrust between resident hunters and First Nations like a fiddle. I know I’ll be attacked for saying this, but what would happen if an effort was made on both sides to work together for the good of fish wildlife and each other’s mutual use of the resource?

[DJK]

We’ve got 2 choices LBM, come up with a management plan, and that includes all species or continue down the path of feast or famine and fighting over scraps.
Wolves, bears and other species have been given a free roll and ungulates have paid the price.
What steps do you think should be taken going forward?
Its easy to be a critic.

Great idea, come to the table with answers. Anyone know a lawyer we can send in?

[horshur]

We should consider our "specieism". Lol

[dapesche]

You guys are loosing sight of the real problem with the proposal

This one is not about wildlife, has nothing to do with conservation

This proposal is purely a people control, reduce one group for the benefit of another group so industrial encroachment can continue unfettered

Resident hunters are being bargained off as a peace offering

There are better measures that could be implemented that would possibly have even better results , depending on how one looks at the so-called problem
but Gov't is taking the easy street, using a guillotine instead of a scalpel
This is creating a wedge between peoples of BC when Gov is usually talking about inclusion and less segregation

Yes.

Scrap the proposal. Gather Together For Wildlife stakeholders. Hammer out a resolution that no one really likes but still works.

Move forward.

[Fella]

Yes.

Scrap the proposal. Gather Together For Wildlife stakeholders. Hammer out a resolution that no one really likes but still works.

Move forward.
Yes exactly. This proposal circumvents Together for Wildlife and basically renders it a token that the government obviously isn’t taking seriously.

[wildcatter]

You guys are loosing sight of the real problem with the proposal

This one is not about wildlife, has nothing to do with conservation

This proposal is purely a people control, reduce one group for the benefit of another group so industrial encroachment can continue unfettered

Resident hunters are being bargained off as a peace offering

There are better measures that could be implemented that would possibly have even better results , depending on how one looks at the so-called problem
but Gov't is taking the easy street, using a guillotine instead of a scalpel
This is creating a wedge between peoples of BC when Gov is usually talking about inclusion and less segregation

That's very well said, we are getting controled more than you can imagine.

[LBM]

We’ve got 2 choices LBM, come up with a management plan, and that includes all species or continue down the path of feast or famine and fighting over scraps.
Wolves, bears and other species have been given a free roll and ungulates have paid the price.
What steps do you think should be taken going forward?
Its easy to be a critic.

As said all wildlife /species have to be under a management plan
and no wolves bears etc have not been given a free roll, sorry but that may be your outfitter side talking.

[LBM]

You guys are loosing sight of the real problem with the proposal

This one is not about wildlife, has nothing to do with conservation

This proposal is purely a people control, reduce one group for the benefit of another group so industrial encroachment can continue unfettered

Resident hunters are being bargained off as a peace offering

There are better measures that could be implemented that would possibly have even better results , depending on how one looks at the so-called problem
but Gov't is taking the easy street, using a guillotine instead of a scalpel
This is creating a wedge between peoples of BC when Gov is usually talking about inclusion and less segregation

True, good post.