GOS Sheep season GOING TO LEH

[rageous]

Part of region 3 GOS season for sheep going to LEH next year because the biologist think there are not enough mature rams.

[spear]

These rumours don't help. Support the claim? What area?

[ccrcc]

if true, sounds like a science based approach rather than feelings-based...

[Walking Buffalo]

if true, sounds like a science based approach rather than feelings-based...

What science are you alluding to?

Will going to LEH reduce habitat loss, or predation loss or disease loss?

Once again, the only science based approach being followed for sheep management is to further reduce hunting....

[rageous]

Which is more accurate a summer or winter flight counts?

Hopefully Mr. Proctor can explain it.
Chris.Procter@gov.bc.ca

People know the most significant challenges these sheep face. It’s not the law abiding hunter, yet time and time again they are always the first to lose opportunity.

[porthunter]

Which is more accurate a summer or winter flight counts?

Hopefully Mr. Proctor can explain it.
Chris.Procter@gov.bc.ca

People know the most significant challenges these sheep face. It’s not the law abiding hunter, yet time and time again they are always the first to lose opportunity.

Totally my own opinion, but I don't think a flight gives proper count as to accuracy of mature rams IMO.

These mature rams in these specific areas aren't often referred to "timber rams" for no reason, and they live in some thick shit.

With that being said, I would say odds would be better of seeing Mature rams in November, but again, some of the most mature rams are past their breeding years and don't even bother coming down to the ewes and out of the timber.

[LBM]

What science are you alluding to?

Will going to LEH reduce habitat loss, or predation loss or disease loss?

Once again, the only science based approach being followed for sheep management is to further reduce hunting....

Does GOS reduce habitat loss or disease loss.
Cant speak about region 3 but there is talk of LEH for bighorns in region 4 which think would be a good thing if
and could give more a chance at taking a sheep if it is set up right.

[rageous]

Does GOS reduce habitat loss or disease loss.
Cant speak about region 3 but there is talk of LEH for bighorns in region 4 which think would be a good thing if
and could give more a chance at taking a sheep if it is set up right.

The best person to answer these questions is Chris Proctor

[Walking Buffalo]

Does GOS reduce habitat loss or disease loss.
Cant speak about region 3 but there is talk of LEH for bighorns in region 4 which think would be a good thing if
and could give more a chance at taking a sheep if it is set up right.


GOS gives greater stewardship rewards than LEH, so yes, GOS has a greater chance to increase lobbying and funding efforts to reduce habitat, predation and disease loss than LEH.

Eliminating GOS and replacing it with LEH by design reduces opportunity to have a chance to take a sheep.


Of course nothing you said in any way answers the questions I asked.... just deflection, cause that is all you got in this discussion.

[boxhitch]

Why the surprise? This isn't the first change to go from gos to leh in Reg 3.

possible the largest driver is to try and reduce the take of illegal rams, and the possible ensuing legal battles

[boxhitch]

Eliminating GOS and replacing it with LEH by design reduces opportunity to have a chance to take a sheep.
If the horn curl reg is generous, it may actually improve the chances of a legal ram for those that get the permit
So hinges on the number of permits of course.

[Osprey]

Quite safe to say that the GOS has little to no effect on the bighorn population with the majority of ewes being bred. I see lots of lambs in the spring with the ewes but come fall seems most have been taken out by predators. Why not increase the Cougar season from Sept 1st - Nov 30 on top of the winter season. There’s no doubt they are the major contributor to the lambs demise.

[LBM]

GOS gives greater stewardship rewards than LEH, so yes, GOS has a greater chance to increase lobbying and funding efforts to reduce habitat, predation and disease loss than LEH.

Eliminating GOS and replacing it with LEH by design reduces opportunity to have a chance to take a sheep.


Of course nothing you said in any way answers the questions I asked.... just deflection, cause that is all you got in this discussion.

Well considering probable most of the states sheep are on some type of draw(LEH) and much of there other wildlife as well I would disagree with you.
And also maybe looking at the number of LEH applicants for sheep here in B.C vs number of sheep tags sold.

[LBM]

If the horn curl reg is generous, it may actually improve the chances of a legal ram for those that get the permit
So hinges on the number of permits of course.
Yes this is true, again thinking of region 4 for example if you took mu 4-25 and gave out 4 any ram leh tags.

[Darksith]

Part of region 3 GOS season for sheep going to LEH next year because the biologist think there are not enough mature rams.

Thats interesting. I wonder how they know since there were no counts done this year...I saw probably close to 10 3/4 curl rams this year in the few days I spent in region 3. The GOS doesn't kill a lot of animals bc they broom off before they reach mature or full curl with the exception of a few 6 ear olds with lamb tips that would get broomed the next year. This doesn't sound like fact or science based anything but merely rumour. The LEH would probably allow for more sheep to be harvested bc its going to be 3/4 curl, but would reduce the opportunity for someone to get lucky and find a needle in a hay stack.

There are changes coming for region 4, the WSSBC has issued a statement recently. Lets not start rumours unless you got something to back it up.

[IronNoggin]

... Lets not start rumours unless you got something to back it up.

Unless your handle is browningboi, and you're referring to elk... :wink:

Nog

[browningboy]

Unless your handle is browningboy and you're referring to elk... :wink: he’s fuqquin awesome and good looking, wish I was like him.

Nog

Another quote from our local CBC helmet boy.

[E-J Kooij]

What science are you alluding to?

Will going to LEH reduce habitat loss, or predation loss or disease loss?

Once again, the only science based approach being followed for sheep management is to further reduce hunting....

Right on man!!!

[Hunting guy]

Yes this is true, again thinking of region 4 for example if you took mu 4-25 and gave out 4 any ram leh tags.

That would increase the chance’s of younger, healthier prime breeding age rams being harvested rather than past prime rams getting harvested. Say No to LEH sheep hunting. If poaching is an issue during GOS it will be during an LEH opening also.

[Ltbullken]

Quite safe to say that the GOS has little to no effect on the bighorn population with the majority of ewes being bred. I see lots of lambs in the spring with the ewes but come fall seems most have been taken out by predators. Why not increase the Cougar season from Sept 1st - Nov 30 on top of the winter season. There’s no doubt they are the major contributor to the lambs demise.

Or the lambs succumb to Movi. There is a high prevalence of Movi in many herds and the south Ok/Boundary has an issue with mites and now blue tongue! Can't assume it's only predators.

[thomas300]

Or the lambs succumb to Ovi. There is a high prevalence of Ovi in many herds and the south Ok/Boundary has an issue with mites and now blue tongue! Can't assume it's only predators.

Movi is a huge issue in region 3 the wild sheep society has put a lot of money and effort into combatting it and could use more funding.

[LBM]

That would increase the chance’s of younger, healthier prime breeding age rams being harvested rather than past prime rams getting harvested. Say No to LEH sheep hunting. If poaching is an issue during GOS it will be during an LEH opening also.
Many of the older rams are broomed back and will never be legal so this would give a chance at them to be now harvested, and also make the short sheep being taken now legal.
Say yes to LEH if it is set up right.

[rageous]

Good on the BHA bc chapter for stepping up and taking a position on the region 4 sheep.

[rageous]

Thats interesting. I wonder how they know since there were no counts done this year...I saw probably close to 10 3/4 curl rams this year in the few days I spent in region 3. The GOS doesn't kill a lot of animals bc they broom off before they reach mature or full curl with the exception of a few 6 ear olds with lamb tips that would get broomed the next year. This doesn't sound like fact or science based anything but merely rumour. The LEH would probably allow for more sheep to be harvested bc its going to be 3/4 curl, but would reduce the opportunity for someone to get lucky and find a needle in a hay stack.

There are changes coming for region 4, the WSSBC has issued a statement recently. Lets not start rumours unless you got something to back it up.


Ask the biologist himself.

[Hunting guy]

Many of the older rams are broomed back and will never be legal so this would give a chance at them to be now harvested, and also make the short sheep being taken now legal.
Say yes to LEH if it is set up right.

check the odds of getting a bull river tag once it went to LEH. Once in a lifetime to hunt it now.

[LBM]

check the odds of getting a bull river tag once it went to LEH. Once in a lifetime to hunt it now.

should check some of the other odds those arent that bad, but if a person draws it and takes a ram it should be once in a life time.

[Hunting guy]

should check some of the other odds those arent that bad, but if a person draws it and takes a ram it should be once in a life time.

Must be Lloyd Christmas… 178:1 draw odds within 5 years of being GOS hunting for full curl rams is ok!? If your biggest concern is how many sheep a hunter has personally harvested in a lifetime your letting your emotions take over from science to make regulations that certainly are not helping sheep hunters by advocating for regulations that end sheep hunting for 99.5% of hunters each season. We are our own worst enemies but some hunters sleep better knowing fewer hunters are sheep hunting!

Almost every bighorn draw is now a once in a lifetime draw hunt. It’s too bad we keep asking for regulations that take away our opportunity to HUNT sheep, and other species. To often those who are pushing for regulations limiting harvest of post prime breeding age class animals are more caught up with hunting as a competition. Limiting hunter involvement is bad for our future hunting.

Assuming the average sheep hunter gets 30 years of ability to hunt sheep in their life…. How many sheep hunters plan to continue or start donating time and money to sheep conservation when you stand a once in 5 lifetime chance of hunting a wild sheep? Sounds more like anti hunting to me.

[ram29]

Hunting guy hit the nail on the head 5 times. Theres no need for leh and bighorns. Bull river never should have went to leh considering they had a ewe draw a couple years prior. The only people that benefit is outfitters. The sheep wont, residents wont... q

[LBM]

Must be Lloyd Christmas… 178:1 draw odds within 5 years of being GOS hunting for full curl rams is ok!? If your biggest concern is how many sheep a hunter has personally harvested in a lifetime your letting your emotions take over from science to make regulations that certainly are not helping sheep hunters by advocating for regulations that end sheep hunting for 99.5% of hunters each season. We are our own worst enemies but some hunters sleep better knowing fewer hunters are sheep hunting!

Almost every bighorn draw is now a once in a lifetime draw hunt. It’s too bad we keep asking for regulations that take away our opportunity to HUNT sheep, and other species. To often those who are pushing for regulations limiting harvest of post prime breeding age class animals are more caught up with hunting as a competition. Limiting hunter involvement is bad for our future hunting.

Assuming the average sheep hunter gets 30 years of ability to hunt sheep in their life…. How many sheep hunters plan to continue or start donating time and money to sheep conservation when you stand a once in 5 lifetime chance of hunting a wild sheep? Sounds more like anti hunting to me.

Sounds like someone may be more concerned about killing then hunting or conservation. Was it not science so to speak that changed the bull river to LEH.
Average sheep hunter only gets 30 yrs of ability to hunt, well passed that by over 10 all ready and will continue. Will continue to help others with info
and spotting as well dont have to be the shooter but will still hunt. Take a look at the kamloops thread, how that LEH tag holder mentions all the help from
others that were not there to be the shooter but still went hunting. Although its from the states the summer issue of wild sheep has a good story of
some people and the amount they do for sheep even though they have never shot or hunted them, infact there is thousands of people there that do things for
sheep and wildlife conservation just because they like the wildlife.
One possible change they could make to the LEH would be if it say cost $250 or $500 to enter and you got your money back except for price of tag if you didnt draw.
That would possible drop your odds way down for many wouldnt apply just because.

[Hunting guy]

Congratulations on your good health, hopefully it continues for you. Unfortunately for many out there with degen disks / knees / shoulders 30 years is being optimistic. If you can find the rational for rule changes that circulated prior to the Bull river going to LEH you will see emotion over science, I looked online but can’t find it so I won’t quote it but parts of it was pathetic.

$250-$500 hardly buys the boots never mind optics / rifle / lightweight everything / kuiu or Sitka that everyone seems to wear now. Not sure that adding what is essentially a sheep hunters tax is going to do for sheep hunting opportunities?
There are many anti hunting groups that also advertise enhancements to wildlife and conservation where nobody kills anything. I guess they are just more honest about their intentions. Too bad they seem to be winning over long time hunters without them even realizing it.

[Walking Buffalo]

Many of the older rams are broomed back and will never be legal so this would give a chance at them to be now harvested, and also make the short sheep being taken now legal.
Say yes to LEH if it is set up right.


This is evidence that LEH is NOT Needed to ensure that older rams exist in the population.



Sounds like someone may be more concerned about killing then hunting or conservation. Was it not science so to speak that changed the bull river to LEH.
Average sheep hunter only gets 30 yrs of ability to hunt, well passed that by over 10 all ready and will continue. Will continue to help others with info
and spotting as well dont have to be the shooter but will still hunt. Take a look at the kamloops thread, how that LEH tag holder mentions all the help from
others that were not there to be the shooter but still went hunting. Although its from the states the summer issue of wild sheep has a good story of
some people and the amount they do for sheep even though they have never shot or hunted them, infact there is thousands of people there that do things for
sheep and wildlife conservation just because they like the wildlife.
One possible change they could make to the LEH would be if it say cost $250 or $500 to enter and you got your money back except for price of tag if you didnt draw.
That would possible drop your odds way down for many wouldnt apply just because.


This is evidence that You believe in pricing people out of hunting.
Evidence that you wish to eliminate hunting opportunity.
And wish to use LEH to achieve these goals.

[dapesche]

Close Bighorn Sheep General Open Season and Establish Limited Entry Hunting Season
Regulation Number:
2022-03-02


Status:
Proposed


Region:
Region 3 - Thompson


MU:
3-17


Regulation Type:
General Open Season
Limited Entry Hunting


Species:
Mountain sheep


Closing Date:
January 23, 2022 at midnight


Decision Statement:
Pending



Current Regulations:
General Open Season


Bighorn Mountain Sheep

3-17*, 3-31, 3-32+

Full Curl Bighorn Rams

Sept 10-Oct 20





3-17*

Mature Bighorn Rams

Sept 10-Oct 20



*A portion of 3-17 only. See Map C2. + A portion of MU 3-32 is closed to Mountain Sheep Hunting. See Map C21. Compulsory Inspection required



Proposed Regulations:
General Open Season


Bighorn Mountain Sheep

3-31, 3-32+

Full Curl Bighorn Rams

Sept 10-Oct 20





3-17*

Mature Bighorn Rams

Sept 10-Oct 20



*A portion of 3-17 only. See Map C2. + A portion of MU 3-32 is closed to Mountain Sheep Hunting. See map C21. Compulsory Inspection required
Limited Entry Hunting
Implement at least ¾ curl mountain sheep Sept 20-Oct 20 LEH opportunity in MU 3-17D
Click here for map (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/download/498DC8B09A064734971837D3F83D9575)



Rationale:
The California bighorn sheep population occupying wildlife management unit 3-17 zones A and B has declined significantly over the past several years. The cause of this declining population trend is linked to a severe respiratory illness, Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae. This illness has contributed to several years of low lamb survival, thus limiting recruitment of individuals into this population. Lack of recruitment has posed management challenges with harvests exceeding established 5-year targets despite limited entry hunting opportunities. The long-term mean age of rams is also declining, indicating increased harvest pressure and reduced older rams in the population. Immediate adjustments to hunter opportunity is warranted to address these conservation concerns.
To address this concern, it is proposed to eliminate general open season hunting opportunities in the California bighorn sheep portion of 3-17. Limited entry hunting opportunities within 3-17 zones A and B will still be available with the addition of a new zone D. Bighorn sheep harvest management under a limited entry hunt season structure would enable hunter effort and harvests to be tightly controlled in accordance with established harvest objectives. Establishment of a limited entry hunting only season structure within areas occupied by California bighorn sheep for 3-17 zones A and B, in addition to the new zone D, will ensure complexity with interpreting the hunting regulations is minimized. Please refer to enclosed map. The limited entry hunting zone C will also be amended to reflect zone the distribution of Rocky Mountain sheep.
Ministry staff are continuing working collaboratively with first nation governments, the BC Wild Sheep Society, and the Provincial domestic and wild sheep coordinator on mitigating the disease risk and implementing strategies to recover this population.



Additional Information:
Confirmation of the respiratory illness Movi occurred in 2012 through post mortality lamb necropsies, although the population decline of bighorn sheep along the Fraser began during the mid 90’s due to this respiratory illness. Baseline health monitoring of Fraser River sheep conducted in 2018/19 confirmed 10% of animals captured were actively shedding Movi. Surveys since the late 1990s indicate the Fraser sheep population has declined by approximately 70%. Recent monitoring through aerial surveys within 3-17 zones A and B notes a continuing population decline in recent years. During 2019 aerial surveys a total of 27 sheep were observed within 3-17 zone A, of the 15 ewes observed only 4 had lambs present. A total of 45 sheep were observed within 3-17 zone B, of the 27 ewes 12 lambs were observed. This represents a continued decline in population of 12% when compared to 2016 aerial survey results.
Compulsory inspection data of harvested rams from 2007-2020 illustrates a significant decline of average age. Rams average age of harvest declined from 7. 5 years old to 4.7 years old as of the 2020 hunting season. This value is well below the Provincial bighorn sheep objective as set within the policy and procedure. Ram harvest has exceeded the AAH in two consecutive five-year allocation periods (2017-2021, 2012-2016).

[rageous]

Well well, would you you look at that.

[tylerduce]

Closure of Limited Entry Hunting for Bighorn Sheep in Okanagan Park
Regulation Number:
2022-08-04


Status:
Proposed


Region:
Region 8 - Okanagan


MU:
8-9


Regulation Type:
Limited Entry Hunting


Species:
Bighorn sheep


Closing Date:
January 23, 2022 at midnight


Decision Statement:
Pending



Current Regulations:
There is currently a Sept. 1 to Sept 30 Limited Entry Hunt (LEH) for bighorn sheep rams in Zone B of 8-9.



Proposed Regulations:
Closure of the Sept. 1 to Sept 30 Limited Entry Hunt (LEH) for bighorn sheep rams in Zone B of 8-9.



Rationale:
Over the past 6 surveys completed by FLNRORD staff following RISC inventory standards we have continuously documented a declining population, for the last 3 consecutive surveys the population has been below targets on both counted individuals (Bighorn management policy dictates a min of 75 observed individuals) and on Lamb: ewe recruitment rates (30 lambs:100 ewe).
With declining populations, low recruitment and a new and novel introduction of M.ovi confirmed in 2020 the prognosis of this population rebounding quickly to minimum required numbers is highly unlikely. The closure of this season will align with provincial policy (https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/environment/natural-resource-policy-legislation/fish-and-wildlife-policy/4-7-01075__bighorn_sheep_harvest_management_-_procedures.pdf)

[LBM]

This is evidence that LEH is NOT Needed to ensure that older rams exist in the population.





This is evidence that You believe in pricing people out of hunting.
Evidence that you wish to eliminate hunting opportunity.
And wish to use LEH to achieve these goals.

Your opinion/thoughts, not mine or my reasoning. If you dont like LEH or draw hunts dont participate in them, oh wait you do.

[prairieoysters]

Wild Sheep Society of BC is hosting a Zoom Webinar: "Fraser River Bighorn Sheep: Addressing Mycoplasma Ovipneumoniae Infection"

Presenter: Chris Procter, Senior Biologist, Thompson-Okanagan Region-Ministry of Forest, Lands, Natural Resource Operations, and Rural Development

Time: February 1st, 2022, 7:00pm PST

LINK TO REGISTER: https://us06web.zoom.us/.../reg.../WN_mDA5I2UaSCmrCYXXaw3WdA (https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_mDA5I2UaSCmrCYXXaw3WdA?fbclid=IwAR3kbGrkpxD_SY8 yhXK8xPlOoe88-vj2JbPAWrNcVbLlQlpMWDQUSwtox9A)

[Rob Chipman]

Wild Sheep Society of BC is hosting a Zoom Webinar: "Fraser River Bighorn Sheep: Addressing Mycoplasma Ovipneumoniae Infection"

Presenter: Chris Procter, Senior Biologist, Thompson-Okanagan Region-Ministry of Forest, Lands, Natural Resource Operations, and Rural Development

Time: February 1st, 2022, 7:00pm PST

LINK TO REGISTER: https://us06web.zoom.us/.../reg.../WN_mDA5I2UaSCmrCYXXaw3WdA (https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_mDA5I2UaSCmrCYXXaw3WdA?fbclid=IwAR3kbGrkpxD_SY8 yhXK8xPlOoe88-vj2JbPAWrNcVbLlQlpMWDQUSwtox9A)






I'm looking forward to that one!

[Harvest the Land]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7nsvLWTex0

[Harvest the Land]

BCWF has created a letter you can copy and paste and send to your MLA



To Whom It May Concern,
I do not support moving from a General Open Season to Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) season for bighorn sheep in the Kootenay region because the government has failed to demonstrate a science-based rationale and, more importantly, has failed to identify how moving to LEH will help recover bighorn sheep.

When suggesting regulation changes the government should be able to establish:
1) The need to change hunting regulations, supported by science-based rationale
2) The specific population level measurable objectives or threshold needed to ensure hunting is sustainable
3) The hunting regulation options which could result in achieving the specific measurable objectives
4) The expected response and timeframe to recovery for that wildlife population

To date, the province has failed to address those four steps. Furthermore, the rationale the province currently has does not appear to be supported by sheep experts.

The B.C. Wildlife Federation recently hosted a webinar with Dr. Marco Festa-Bianchet, one of the world leading research scientists in the area of bighorn sheep ecology, particularly the effects of hunting on sheep. Dr. Festa-Bianchet analyzed data from hunter harvest in the Kootenay region, and preliminary analysis suggests that hunting regulations are not having a negative impact on sheep horn growth. Dr. Festa-Bianchet also did not indicate a concern with the current management regime being used in the Kootenay region. This tends to suggest the factors limiting bighorn sheep are not related to hunting.

Dr. Festa-Bianchet suggested three tools to restore sheep population. They were:
1) Ensure wild sheep do not have diseases transmitted by domestic sheep including mycoplasma ovipneumoniae
2) Ensure individual cougars are not causing population declines through predation
3) Restore habitat

While cougar harvest is relatively high in the region, disease surveillance and restoring habitat are not happening at a meaningful scale. The decline in sheep happened in 2012/13, nearly a decade ago. The province needs to get on with actions to restore populations. The Kootenay region has a long history of singularly focusing on hunting regulations, which have never resulted in restored wildlife populations. In fact, wildlife in the region has been declining for decades and the government has not done anything meaningful to reverse the trend.

If the province is able to demonstrate a science-based biological need to reduce hunter harvest, there are several tools which would reduce harvest that do not involve moving straight to LEH.

I expect the government to make decisions based on science. In this case the government has failed to provide rationale that either demonstrates an effect due to hunting or how changing the hunting regulations will result in restored sheep populations. Even the government’s own Kootenay Bighorn Sheep Management Plan states, “current hunting seasons are not believed to be affecting population trends.” It is time to start focusing in on meaningful actions which will restore our wildlife resources rather than doing things that are easy and look good.
Sincerely,




Contact Your MLA (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbbox.blackbaudhosting.com%2Fweb forms%2Flinkredirect%3Fsrcid%3D37774612%26srctid%3 D1%26erid%3D-2051682143%26trid%3D2367dcf2-00f0-48eb-9861-2088ebedf274%26linkid%3D257717117%26isbbox%3D1%26p id%3D0&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cbb1525f948ba4dd9319908d9df942014 %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6377 86649567226206%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000&sdata=Y37k7IBTk3Sp2%2Byxv%2BDSvqgf8vHzn4ZwF%2BdNwN LghIM%3D&reserved=0)

[LBM]

I'm looking forward to that one!

Wonder if they will bring up about the sick sheep dying off last year in the east kootenays

[high horse Hal]

thought that was the purpose of this new fancy schmancy Alliance, to hash this stuff out before it gets to reg season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7nsvLWTex0

[IronNoggin]

In addition to the feedback I submitted to counter the likes of LBM, I sent directed letters to my MLA, Horgan, and Conroy.
In those I reiterated the concerns I had previously noted, and added in several from the above template.
I will post any reply that might be forthcoming...

Suggest any with concerns in this matter do the same ASAP.

Nog

[Bugle M In]

Wonder if they will bring up about the sick sheep dying off last year in the east kootenays
You just answered your own "Questioning".
How is limiting hunters going to solve "sick sheep"???
Prolong their inevitable decline, yes, but these changes, "especially in R4, is not going to address the "real factors"!
Which is typical of the Government/Ministry/ Bios.

If the Ministry actually were to say, okay, we are going to revamp some critical sheep habitat, treat the sheep in those areas,
as well as cull Preds to provide them protection, then yes, I suppose i would support limiting, if not even closing the season for
up to 5 years etc, BECAUSE, they would actually have a plan to address the atual factors, and limiting hunting would help those
aids help sheep rebound.

But that's not the case.
The only plan, like always, is to just close off hunting or limit it.
Look at the entire province overall, and look where that thought process and implementation has gotten them/us.
Nowhere!

You answered you own question.

[LBM]

You just answered your own "Questioning".
How is limiting hunters going to solve "sick sheep"???
Prolong their inevitable decline, yes, but these changes, "especially in R4, is not going to address the "real factors"!
Which is typical of the Government/Ministry/ Bios.

If the Ministry actually were to say, okay, we are going to revamp some critical sheep habitat, treat the sheep in those areas,
as well as cull Preds to provide them protection, then yes, I suppose i would support limiting, if not even closing the season for
up to 5 years etc, BECAUSE, they would actually have a plan to address the atual factors, and limiting hunting would help those
aids help sheep rebound.

But that's not the case.
The only plan, like always, is to just close off hunting or limit it.
Look at the entire province overall, and look where that thought process and implementation has gotten them/us.
Nowhere!

You answered you own question.

Predators are not the issue in 4 -25 or 35 or some of the MUs or at least not the ones people think.
When wildlife numbers get to a low level all things matter.
My question was wonder if they would bring up the sick sheep in the east kootenay since disease in sheep
seemed like what the webinar was on. you answered none of that.

[rageous]

Thoughts on the webinar zoom meeting?

[Livewire322]

Thoughts on the webinar zoom meeting?

I thought it was good overall, but was left wanting more on their logic to not include rams in the treatment.

Sure, it’s great that the early data indicates their treatment of ewes and lambs works (high lamb recruitment for following years), but he said it himself, one reason the wild sheep get sick is that rams try to breed domestic sheep and then bring the M.Ovi. to the wild ewes come rut season. That would indicate a risk in the long-term for reinfection of treated herds by rams that weren’t treated. That could only be exacerbated by the restriction of ram hunting (i.e., less hunters on the ground killing rams means there are more infected rams left in the wild).

But, I must be missing something regarding the risk posed by rams, because he seemed confident that the plan was as solid as it could be.

[bearvalley]

I thought it was good overall, but was left wanting more on their logic to not include rams in the treatment.

Sure, it’s great that the early data indicates their treatment of ewes and lambs works (high lamb recruitment for following years), but he said it himself, one reason the wild sheep get sick is that rams try to breed domestic sheep and then bring the M.Ovi. to the wild ewes come rut season. That would indicate a risk in the long-term for reinfection of treated herds by rams that weren’t treated. That could only be exacerbated by the restriction of ram hunting (i.e., less hunters on the ground killing rams means there are more infected rams left in the wild).

But, I must be missing something regarding the risk posed by rams, because he seemed confident that the plan was as solid as it could be.

i agree with what you’re saying.
One existing M.Ovi carrier ram seems to be just as big a threat as one that mixes with domestics, picks up the disease and packs it to wild sheep.