Why such a need to kill animals.

[LBM]

Why is there such a need to kill animals by so many hunters. Looking at the confiscated sheep thread and amount it happens with them.
There is still a bit more of a season so sure more under size rams will be taken with the panic of it shutting down.
Now the illegal elk deer, moose and other animal numbers are starting to add up. Maybe things are different now days, was always
taught to identify your target, but seems now its shoot first check later with so many. Elk arent going to ever be a legal 6 point
when there shot when only a 4 point.

[Harvest the Land]

I have a need to kill animals because I'm hungry and really like the taste of wild game meat and so does my family; and I really like to know where my food comes from and how that animal was living its life before I killed it. (I need to have a connection with the meat I am eating)

I for one (and most of the hunters I know) ALWAYS check to make sure everything is legal AND that there are no folks in the background that could be in the line of fire BEFORE I take the shot.

How come you don't have such a need to kill animals?

[srthomas75]

I don't think the op doesn't have a need to kill animals. It's more of a question on the "desire" or "urgency" of some folks to pull the trigger before they have confirmed that they are shooting at a legal animal. But that does bring up a question of morals or ethics in those people. At what time does it become ok to shoot first and then check out the finer details later? To me that's a poacher mentality.

[Dannybuoy]

That's a funny question to post on a hunting forum ... and I don't mean ha ha ha funny .
You hoping for a catch & release hunting program ? Or how about just shooting creatures with a camera ?
Not sure what kind of response you were looking for here LBM

[VLD43]

Why is there such a need to kill animals by so many hunters. Looking at the confiscated sheep thread and amount it happens with them.
There is still a bit more of a season so sure more under size rams will be taken with the panic of it shutting down.
Now the illegal elk deer, moose and other animal numbers are starting to add up. Maybe things are different now days, was always
taught to identify your target, but seems now its shoot first check later with so many. Elk arent going to ever be a legal 6 point
when there shot when only a 4 point.

I think a lot of this comes down to ego. Guys go out hunting and possibly spend a lot of money getting there. They have to come home with something to justify the expense. They also want to be included in the group of hunters who are successful. I can see hunting for meat, but at the end of the day, if you don't harvest anything you are surely not going to starve. Another angle that might apply here is work ethic. I have heard lots of guys state they only hunt for meat and will shoot anything that is legal that crosses their path. So they go out and shoot the first spike or fork they see. Then one day a five point steps out in front of them. They harvest that animal and proceed to brag about it like they had targeted that particular animal, instead of it actually being a lucky opportunity. So why did they not pass that animal up as their just hunting for meat. Why shoot a potential trophy animal when you just want meat? I have seen many hunters over the years who shoot the first thing they see and then complain or make the statement to selective hunters about how lucky they are shooting bigger bucks. It never dawns on these guys that hunting an older mature animal takes a lot more effort , skill and a certain degree of luck. Mature animals don't get to where they are by being stupid. They are very cautious and calculating. They have lots of experience avoiding predators whether human of animal. There are hunters out there who will never have the skill sets or ability to hunt mature game animals. I very much enjoy hunting, and have come home many times with out game, but a great experience. Putting the effort in to harvest mature game animals teaches you a lot about yourself, and helps you hone your skills. Not for everyone though.

[LBM]

That's a funny question to post on a hunting forum ... and I don't mean ha ha ha funny .
You hoping for a catch & release hunting program ? Or how about just shooting creatures with a camera ?
Not sure what kind of response you were looking for here LBM

Quit simple really why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
Why are short underage sheep shot, why are elk in a 6 point area being shot when they are under that size
why are mule deer being shot as whitetails or vs versa why in a 4 point mule deer area are bucks being shot
under that size, why are moose over the 2 point size limit being shot in the GOs
Why is a person on a quad being shot in a moose season , why is person being shot well bugling. Why does someone
cross a fence onto posted land to shoot something.
Want me to give more reasons or do you understand the question now, Why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.

[Island Idiots]

Illegally shot game numbers are used by Biologists to detirmine seasons and limits. Relax and trust the science. Unless of course your an anti vaxxer.

[Dannybuoy]

Quit simple really why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
Why are short underage sheep shot, why are elk in a 6 point area being shot when they are under that size
why are mule deer being shot as whitetails or vs versa why in a 4 point mule deer area are bucks being shot
under that size, why are moose over the 2 point size limit being shot in the GOs
Why is a person on a quad being shot in a moose season , why is person being shot well bugling. Why does someone
cross a fence onto posted land to shoot something..
Want me to give more reasons or do you understand the question now, Why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
I doubt the examples you are pointing out are from a need to kill something but rather from mistake , stupidity , ignorance and probably a few more reasons
The only time I hear of the need to kill mentality is the city folks that feel the need to kill squirrels . coyotes, bobcats , various birds "Just because"
Wolves are fair game .... as most will never see one anyway ....

[Dannybuoy]

Illegally shot game numbers are used by Biologists to detirmine seasons and limits. Relax and trust the science. Unless of course your an anti vaxxer.
LOL beauty !

[adriaticum]

we have no data on these illegal rams to be able to draw any conclusions.

[bearvalley]

LBM’s got some valid questions.
When some buy a tag they feel it has to be filled.
That’s their choice…if it legal, fly at it.
Just last night I visited with 2 hunters that spent a week hunting caribou in the only “any bull” LEH zone in BC.
They saw 1 bull caribou….no others.
He was a little guy and he got shot.
My comment was “ at least he won’t have to spend a lonely winter”.
Others, can pack a pocket full of tags and never squeeze the trigger.
Different strokes for different folks.
When it comes to the mistakes we’re seeing today, I believe a lot of it goes back to inexperience.
Face it…..other than putting in the time and gaining experience or having a good mentor ….how does a rookie hunter learn.
The CORE coarse is so basic a 10 year old can complete it….so is that really enough to turn a new hunter loose on?

[bearvalley]

we have no data on these illegal rams to be able to draw any conclusions.
It’s coming………..

[Arctic Lake]

I’m not as successful at hunting as I would like to be . This is my own fault, as I don’t get out that often and still have lots to learn, but geeez would I just shoot at an animal just to kill it , NO ! I don’t get a high five scream out loud elation from killing an animal ,I get the elation from a combination of feelings when I know the animal is down and the work / study , research has paid off and of course the good luck .
I don’t have time for over inflated egos in people whatever the situation ! Life’s to short for that B.S been around that and don’t miss it at ALL !
Arctic Lake

[ElectricDyck]

we have no data on these illegal rams to be able to draw any conclusions.

Another rumour is the amount of confiscated sheep is no more than other years...why would someone start a contradictory rumour?

[LBM]

LBM’s got some valid questions.
When some buy a tag they feel it has to be filled.
That’s their choice…if it legal, fly at it.
Just last night I visited with 2 hunters that spent a week hunting caribou in the only “any bull” LEH zone in BC.
They saw 1 bull caribou….no others.
He was a little guy and he got shot.
My comment was “ at least he won’t have to spend a lonely winter”.
Others, can pack a pocket full of tags and never squeeze the trigger.
Different strokes for different folks.
When it comes to the mistakes we’re seeing today, I believe a lot of it goes back to inexperience.
Face it…..other than putting in the time and gaining experience or having a good mentor ….how does a rookie hunter learn.
The CORE coarse is so basic a 10 year old can complete it….so is that really enough to turn a new hunter loose on?
Ya all the young people that I have asked that have takin the course were told the same thing they will all pass as long as they
dont point the gun at the instructor.
As for the caribou story i just dont understand the thinking on many people, so many say the ungulate numbers are down
every where and blame every thing on predators. They will hunt for 2 weeks and only see one animal yet have to shoot it.
Not to much in the way of conservation there, some times humans have to realize they are a big part of the problem.

[LBM]

Illegally shot game numbers are used by Biologists to detirmine seasons and limits. Relax and trust the science. Unless of course your an anti vaxxer.

Well good then maybe we can get all sheep on leh and elk as well.

[Islandeer]

What would that do? Feed the wolves , and discourage hunters from hunting. Bingo!

Its too bad that a few hunters were not mentored early on, traditional ethics and bush craft .

LBM, please say a prayer for all the animals slaughtered on our roads each day while you are at it.

[huntingfamily]

What would that do? Feed the wolves , and discourage hunters from hunting. Bingo!

Its too bad that a few hunters were not mentored early on, traditional ethics and bush craft .

LBM, please say a prayer for all the animals slaughtered on our roads each day while you are at it.

You can add railways, predators and 'unregulated' hunting to the last sentence...

[VLD43]

Well good then maybe we can get all sheep on leh and elk as well.

Your response is a very good idea. I have heard it before, and after some reflection and looking at the number of people now hunting sheep, I think it's time. You don't hear of to many 40" rams anymore. I lot of just legal ones. At least on LEH, you can regulate the hunting pressure and manage the opportunity so there are more quality Rams out there. You could also put a bite of a damper on those who think sheep hunting is some kind of extreme endurance sport, and put more emphasis on the quality of experience of being in high places and watching sheep behavior. That's a good teacher in itself.

[HarryToolips]

Illegally shot game numbers are used by Biologists to detirmine seasons and limits. Relax and trust the science. Unless of course your an anti vaxxer.
Lol make sure to post all your science in the covid thread, because the reality is, the anti vaxxers have been posting more science, that's why we don't believe the narrative..

Now to answer the OPs question:

Desperation for a 'successful' hunt I imagine is the primary reason, though I imagine honest mistakes are occasionally made, like for example, a tine isn't quite long enough therefor isn't legal, but for me, like it states in the regs, when in doubt don't shoot!

[Downwindtracker2]

My first response was try eating them without killing them. But you raise an interesting question. A bit poorly phrased one.

Having power of life and death, maybe.

[Sitkaspruce]

Social Media has a big play in hunting now
Peer Pressure - pressure to kill something from friends, family, social media, other hunters
Elitist - Sheep hunters are some of the worst, almost like fly fisherman in their elites mentality. Not all, but there is some out there that have a different mentality when it comes to sheep. I have met a few that acted like they had killed the holly grail; not knowing that people have been killing sheep before their mommas lost their virginity. It's funny that I have not met any goat killers that think the same way. Yet I think Goats are the ultimate animal to hunt and to kill a 10"+ billy is damn hard!!
The "I spent all this money to come up here, I am going home with something" thought process. Who ever thinks that spending money justifies having to kill something is missing a lot of reasons why they are hunting.

I am sure there are many more, but killing undersize animals is a choice that a hunter makes when they squeeze the trigger. No excuses, no rational reason.

Cheers

SS

[tigrr]

Their wife is an accountant!

[cameron0518]

I think a lot of this comes down to ego. Guys go out hunting and possibly spend a lot of money getting there. They have to come home with something to justify the expense. They also want to be included in the group of hunters who are successful. I can see hunting for meat, but at the end of the day, if you don't harvest anything you are surely not going to starve. Another angle that might apply here is work ethic. I have heard lots of guys state they only hunt for meat and will shoot anything that is legal that crosses their path. So they go out and shoot the first spike or fork they see. Then one day a five point steps out in front of them. They harvest that animal and proceed to brag about it like they had targeted that particular animal, instead of it actually being a lucky opportunity. So why did they not pass that animal up as their just hunting for meat. Why shoot a potential trophy animal when you just want meat? I have seen many hunters over the years who shoot the first thing they see and then complain or make the statement to selective hunters about how lucky they are shooting bigger bucks. It never dawns on these guys that hunting an older mature animal takes a lot more effort , skill and a certain degree of luck. Mature animals don't get to where they are by being stupid. They are very cautious and calculating. They have lots of experience avoiding predators whether human of animal. There are hunters out there who will never have the skill sets or ability to hunt mature game animals. I very much enjoy hunting, and have come home many times with out game, but a great experience. Putting the effort in to harvest mature game animals teaches you a lot about yourself, and helps you hone your skills. Not for everyone though.

Well stated. I have hunted with people that are all about bagging something to boost their egos. Not for me.

[Kill-da-wabbit]

Why is there such a need to kill animals by so many hunters. Looking at the confiscated sheep thread and amount it happens with them.
There is still a bit more of a season so sure more under size rams will be taken with the panic of it shutting down.
Now the illegal elk deer, moose and other animal numbers are starting to add up. Maybe things are different now days, was always
taught to identify your target, but seems now its shoot first check later with so many. Elk arent going to ever be a legal 6 point
when there shot when only a 4 point.
There is no such need to kill these animals by hunters. Start calling these sacks by what they are...poachers.

[Blacktail1]

ihttps://i.postimg.cc/fbQT0FsS/A653-BECE-E691-4-CE2-A074-62-A952-CCBD5-E.jpg (https://postimg.cc/xXgSw6c9)
for me it’s above pic I kill animals cause they are made of meat.
that said I’ve hunted with fellers who get pissy if nothing is harvested. I don’t hunt with people like that anymore at all costs . Simply go buy a side of beef if that’s your end game. I’m there for me time mental clarity ect . Meat is a delicious bonus.

[Redthies]

I’m not as successful at hunting as I would like to be . This is my own fault, as I don’t get out that often and still have lots to learn, but geeez would I just shoot at an animal just to kill it , NO ! I don’t get a high five scream out loud elation from killing an animal ,I get the elation from a combination of feelings when I know the animal is down and the work / study , research has paid off and of course the good luck .
I don’t have time for over inflated egos in people whatever the situation ! Life’s to short for that B.S been around that and don’t miss it at ALL !
Arctic Lake

Amen brother! I’ve got a coffee mug slowly filing with uncut tags that is a symbol of two things: not getting out enough, and not wanting to just shoot “anything, in any situation” just to cut a tag.

[boxhitch]

Quit simple really why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
Why are short underage sheep shot, why are elk in a 6 point area being shot when they are under that size
why are mule deer being shot as whitetails or vs versa why in a 4 point mule deer area are bucks being shot
under that size, why are moose over the 2 point size limit being shot in the GOs
Why is a person on a quad being shot in a moose season , why is person being shot well bugling. Why does someone
cross a fence onto posted land to shoot something.
Want me to give more reasons or do you understand the question now, Why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
Each point can be explained away somehow, either mistakes in counting tines or judgement length, or mistakes in identification,
I don't think someone turning in a short sheep for CI has bad intentions

Things like jumping fences or shooting beef have more purpose, more intent, and point to a general disregard for others property, goes with the theft from camps , trucks, boats etc
There is also likely a small portion that just want to blast something, anything, to experience the kill, the bullets effect, the blood, can just hope it is short lived.

The point about what is appropriate for size/ age is purely judgemental, if the 'bou was legal I don't see the problem, we know the breeding is still getting done or there would be no leh opp.

To make a moral judgement of someone elses legal kill is also a problem

[twoSevenO]

Social Media has a big play in hunting now
Peer Pressure - pressure to kill something from friends, family, social media, other hunters
Elitist - Sheep hunters are some of the worst, almost like fly fisherman in their elites mentality. Not all, but there is some out there that have a different mentality when it comes to sheep. I have met a few that acted like they had killed the holly grail; not knowing that people have been killing sheep before their mommas lost their virginity. It's funny that I have not met any goat killers that think the same way. Yet I think Goats are the ultimate animal to hunt and to kill a 10"+ billy is damn hard!!
The "I spent all this money to come up here, I am going home with something" thought process. Who ever thinks that spending money justifies having to kill something is missing a lot of reasons why they are hunting.

I am sure there are many more, but killing undersize animals is a choice that a hunter makes when they squeeze the trigger. No excuses, no rational reason.

Cheers

SS

Particularly the spey fishermen of fly fishing. In my opinion, they are the worst.

And yes, agreed that it is pressure, mainly social media. All my buddies are posting dead animals. I better make something happen too.

It's ridiculous and sad.

[Onesock]

So is this thread about trophy hunting over meat hunting? Are meat hunters looked down on?

[Bubbacanuck]

Social Media has a big play in hunting now
Peer Pressure - pressure to kill something from friends, family, social media, other hunters
Elitist - Sheep hunters are some of the worst, almost like fly fisherman in their elites mentality. Not all, but there is some out there that have a different mentality when it comes to sheep. I have met a few that acted like they had killed the holly grail; not knowing that people have been killing sheep before their mommas lost their virginity. It's funny that I have not met any goat killers that think the same way. Yet I think Goats are the ultimate animal to hunt and to kill a 10"+ billy is damn hard!!
The "I spent all this money to come up here, I am going home with something" thought process. Who ever thinks that spending money justifies having to kill something is missing a lot of reasons why they are hunting.

I am sure there are many more, but killing undersize animals is a choice that a hunter makes when they squeeze the trigger. No excuses, no rational reason.

Cheers

SS

worse than fly fisherman or sheep hunters are bow hunters. The bow hunters that believe only bows they agree with should be considered a bow. Cross bows are frowned upon, as these bow hunters are so elitist. Utter bullshit.

[xlcc]

If the critter you are hunting is by definition in the regs legal to shoot you now have a choice.If the critter is not legal to kill,the choice is simple,don't shoot.
There is no such thing in my books as squeekers.

[Leveraction]

I would say I’m with Arctic lake on this. I’m not overly successful as a hunter. And that is because of , I think an inner passion and level of ethics that for me seems to supersede the killing of an animal. If it’s not right I don’t shoot.
When I lived in the Edmonton area 1993-2009, I was a fanatical bow hunter from 1993-1999 and spent many of those hunting seasons 10 minutes from home chasing Moose and Deer, opportunities and seasons and bag limits were incredible, In all I took a handful of whitetails does. No monster buck pictures in my hunting portfolio. Then one season on a golf course south of Sherwood park, I had a monster 5x5 in front of me and I buried an arrow what I thought was behind the shoulder, He took off across the field and disappeared into the bush 150 yards away, as I watched him go, I thought he’s gonna drop, he’s gonna drop, there was a bit of blood which I followed, into the bush, it got dark, I called some buddies and family, we looked hard, blood trail stopped, knocked on a few doors asking for permission to go onto private property and search, I took 3 full days off work search. I know I saw that arrow go into the deer, I saw the fletching sticking out of him…… I never recovered the animal, and I never pulled the bow back again. That was September 17th 1999.
I was so upset I did not hunt the rest of the year, or the following year.
RESPECT FOR THE ANIMAL YOU KILL.
For that reason I tend to hunt alone, as I’m not into people that shoot because they saw antlers, or shoot because I heard a noise over there, or guys that use the time away from the wife to get high and drunk, as many people do do that.
I do spend as much time as I can during hunting season, out there hunting, but it is not as much as I’d like.
Ive introduced my step son to hunting, but I think I’ve introduced him more to ethics and respecting the animal you intend to kill.




QUOTE=Arctic Lake;2288074]I’m not as successful at hunting as I would like to be . This is my own fault, as I don’t get out that often and still have lots to learn, but geeez would I just shoot at an animal just to kill it , NO ! I don’t get a high five scream out loud elation from killing an animal ,I get the elation from a combination of feelings when I know the animal is down and the work / study , research has paid off and of course the good luck .
I don’t have time for over inflated egos in people whatever the situation ! Life’s to short for that B.S been around that and don’t miss it at ALL !
Arctic Lake[/QUOTE]

[SeaScene]

BearValley said: "The CORE coarse is so basic a 10 year old can complete it…"

So BV .... What you are really saying sorta hints that a certain group of guys here are hunting illegally?

[bearvalley]

BearValley said: "The CORE coarse is so basic a 10 year old can complete it…"

So BV .... What you are really saying sorta hints that a certain group of guys here are hunting illegally?

How do you come to that conclusion?
What I suggested was that new hunters are out in the field with very little training.

[mod7rem]

Quit simple really why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.
Why are short underage sheep shot, why are elk in a 6 point area being shot when they are under that size
why are mule deer being shot as whitetails or vs versa why in a 4 point mule deer area are bucks being shot
under that size, why are moose over the 2 point size limit being shot in the GOs
Why is a person on a quad being shot in a moose season , why is person being shot well bugling. Why does someone
cross a fence onto posted land to shoot something.
Want me to give more reasons or do you understand the question now, Why such a need by so many hunters to kill something.

Simple human nature. Lots of variability in how humans think and react to situations. Calm or excitable, rational or irrational, thoughtful or impulsive, etc. It shows in everything humans do, not just hunting. You could take a large group of people that all love backpacking. Some will litter their garbage in beautiful places, others wouldn’t dream of doing it and will pick up others garbage. Some will steal if low risk of getting caught, others won’t. We’re all wired differently.
Although I think some people do things intentionally in the moment, disregarding the threat of consequences, I want to believe that most of the short sheep, 5 pt elk, whitetail looking mulie’s, etc, etc are not done intentionally, but more because of excitable, irrational, impulsive reactions.

[mod7rem]

We all know of people that like to do things like hunting, fishing, quading, camping, etc, and doesn’t it make you nuts when there are always people involved that consistently have no idea what the rules are? Everybody has different personalities and some people are not interested in learning any details such as rules. They just want to participate in the action. Put enough of these personalities in a group and bad things happen.

[Rackmastr]

worse than fly fisherman or sheep hunters are bow hunters. The bow hunters that believe only bows they agree with should be considered a bow. Cross bows are frowned upon, as these bow hunters are so elitist. Utter bullshit.

And worse than all 3 are comments like this that continue to divide.....lol

[Ron.C]

What a productive thread. Anti hunters must love some of this shit.

[Harvest the Land]

^^^^Bingo. I've always thought LBM was Chris Darimont under cover, and starting divisive threads like this only furthers my belief

[mod7rem]

Each point can be explained away somehow, either mistakes in counting tines or judgement length, or mistakes in identification,
I don't think someone turning in a short sheep for CI has bad intentions

Things like jumping fences or shooting beef have more purpose, more intent, and point to a general disregard for others property, goes with the theft from camps , trucks, boats etc
There is also likely a small portion that just want to blast something, anything, to experience the kill, the bullets effect, the blood, can just hope it is short lived.

The point about what is appropriate for size/ age is purely judgemental, if the 'bou was legal I don't see the problem, we know the breeding is still getting done or there would be no leh opp.

To make a moral judgement of someone elses legal kill is also a problem

I completely agree.

[Ron.C]

^^^^Bingo. I've always thought LBM was Chris Darimont under cover, and starting divisive threads like this only furthers my belief

To be clear I wasn't referring to LBM or his original post, but how threads seem to migrate to creating divide by attacking other groups.

And for what it's worth, I have no idea who Chris Darimont is. But LBM is one of a few locals that has helped me me by sharing information on elk/deer and seasonal updates for an area I like to hunt. He's also provided me a phone number and offered me assistance ( if I was in a jam) when I went solo in the past.

[mod7rem]

Your response is a very good idea. I have heard it before, and after some reflection and looking at the number of people now hunting sheep, I think it's time. You don't hear of to many 40" rams anymore. I lot of just legal ones. At least on LEH, you can regulate the hunting pressure and manage the opportunity so there are more quality Rams out there. You could also put a bite of a damper on those who think sheep hunting is some kind of extreme endurance sport, and put more emphasis on the quality of experience of being in high places and watching sheep behavior. That's a good teacher in itself.

Before we jump straight to LEH, why don’t we figure out if there is actually a sustainability problem with Thinhorns first.
One of the reasons you don’t hear much talk of 40” rams anymore, is because it’s not a common way of referring to good rams anymore. It’s seems old school now. Most sheep hunters I know all refer to total inches. Everyone wants a 170”+ ram.

[Harvest the Land]

To be clear I wasn't referring to LBM or his original post, but how threads seem to migrate to creating divide by attacking other groups.

And for what it's worth, I have no idea who Chris Darimont is. But LBM is one of a few locals that has helped me me by sharing information on elk/deer and seasonal updates for an area I like to hunt. He's also provided me a phone number and offered me assistance ( if I was in a jam) when I went solo in the past.

Fair enough Ron. I didn't state that I thought LBM wasn't a good guy. He just has plenty of seemingly anti hunting or anti killing in this case (particularly anti predator hunting) posts, and this one is par for the course. This is a pro hunting (and killing) forum after all.

BTW is his first name Chris? :-P

[VLD43]

Before we jump straight to LEH, why don’t we figure out if there is actually a sustainability problem with Thinhorns first.
One of the reasons you don’t hear much talk of 40” rams anymore, is because it’s not a common way of referring to good rams anymore. It’s seems old school now. Most sheep hunters I know all refer to total inches. Everyone wants a 170”+ ram.

Good point. So how many 160 + rams are taken each year. My comments you quoted were posted after a lot of thought. I was thinking mostly of conservation, and hunt quality. I think it would be great if there were more opportunities to hunt and possibly harvest a ram that was 170. Presently it seems there is a foot race just before opening day to get into a spot and shoot the first legal ram a guy sees. As the hunting community grows and there is more pressure put on sheep populations, something has to give. I would rather see things regulated earlier on to preserve what we presently have and possibly improve things. Not that the record books are the definitive reference to go by, it seem that a lot of the big rams were shot in the 60's and 70's. 40 to 45" rams are few and far between these days. 37 to 39" rams seem to be the norm. If more rams were left to mature longer then it only stands to reason, sheep populations would be impacted less and hunt quality would improve. And no, I don't think the thinhorn sheep populations are presently in trouble, but that could change in short order. So why not be proactive before things change, which you know they will.

[mod7rem]

Good point. So how many 160 + rams are taken each year. My comments you quoted were posted after a lot of thought. I was thinking mostly of conservation, and hunt quality. I think it would be great if there were more opportunities to hunt and possibly harvest a ram that was 170. Presently it seems there is a foot race just before opening day to get into a spot and shoot the first legal ram a guy sees. As the hunting community grows and there is more pressure put on sheep populations, something has to give. I would rather see things regulated earlier on to preserve what we presently have and possibly improve things. Not that the record books are the definitive reference to go by, it seem that a lot of the big rams were shot in the 60's and 70's. 40 to 45" rams are few and far between these days. 37 to 39" rams seem to be the norm. If more rams were left to mature longer then it only stands to reason, sheep populations would be impacted less and hunt quality would improve. And no, I don't think the thinhorn sheep populations are presently in trouble, but that could change in short order. So why not be proactive before things change, which you know they will.


I understand what you’re saying and I also feel strongly about conservation. But before we set out to solve a problem, let’s make sure we’re actually facing a problem and then clearly define what that problem is. These threads seem to go the same way. They start off about conservation concerns, then turn into lack of trophy opportunities concerns, ethics,,,,,,. I think that there is so much info at our fingertips these days, that it’s easy to get a false sense of what might be going on. Every year I see multiple pics of some awesome rams that get taken, but I also think that it’s less common for people to enter these things in record books. Social media seems to be the new “record books”.
Ive been hunting sheep for almost 20 years and I remember one time (maybe 15 years ago) stopping at a taxidermist for a compulsory inspection after a caribou hunt. The number of fresh ram skulls in his shop was shocking to me at the time. He must have had dozens and dozens all lined up and tagged waiting for mounts. He said all from that season. I remember thinking how can there be any left out there, and this was only one taxidermist. Maybe if hunters at that time could see the harvest rate in a visual way like that, it would have been alarming but out of context to the big picture. My point is that all this imagery and rumor can be alarming, but any changes made should go by data.

[VLD43]

I understand what you’re saying and I also feel strongly about conservation. But before we set out to solve a problem, let’s make sure we’re actually facing a problem and then clearly define what that problem is. These threads seem to go the same way. They start off about conservation concerns, then turn into lack of trophy opportunities concerns, ethics,,,,,,. I think that there is so much info at our fingertips these days, that it’s easy to get a false sense of what might be going on. Every year I see multiple pics of some awesome rams that get taken, but I also think that it’s less common for people to enter these things in record books. Social media seems to be the new “record books”.
Ive been hunting sheep for almost 20 years and I remember one time (maybe 15 years ago) stopping at a taxidermist for a compulsory inspection after a caribou hunt. The number of fresh ram skulls in his shop was shocking to me at the time. He must have had dozens and dozens all lined up and tagged waiting for mounts. He said all from that season. I remember thinking how can there be any left out there, and this was only one taxidermist. Maybe if hunters at that time could see the harvest rate in a visual way like that, it would have been alarming but out of context to the big picture. My point is that all this imagery and rumor can be alarming, but any changes made should go by data.

Good post. Agree with all your points. Not trying to stir the pot here, just concerned with maintaining a healthy robust sheep population. Thanks for your insights. I guess I will have another look at things.

[HarryToolips]

If the critter you are hunting is by definition in the regs legal to shoot you now have a choice.If the critter is not legal to kill,the choice is simple,don't shoot.
There is no such thing in my books as squeekers.
100%....again, that's why they state in the regs if in doubt, don't shoot...

[LBM]

I understand what you’re saying and I also feel strongly about conservation. But before we set out to solve a problem, let’s make sure we’re actually facing a problem and then clearly define what that problem is. These threads seem to go the same way. They start off about conservation concerns, then turn into lack of trophy opportunities concerns, ethics,,,,,,. I think that there is so much info at our fingertips these days, that it’s easy to get a false sense of what might be going on. Every year I see multiple pics of some awesome rams that get taken, but I also think that it’s less common for people to enter these things in record books. Social media seems to be the new “record books”.
Ive been hunting sheep for almost 20 years and I remember one time (maybe 15 years ago) stopping at a taxidermist for a compulsory inspection after a caribou hunt. The number of fresh ram skulls in his shop was shocking to me at the time. He must have had dozens and dozens all lined up and tagged waiting for mounts. He said all from that season. I remember thinking how can there be any left out there, and this was only one taxidermist. Maybe if hunters at that time could see the harvest rate in a visual way like that, it would have been alarming but out of context to the big picture. My point is that all this imagery and rumor can be alarming, but any changes made should go by data.

Yes some good points, but when you say go by data, what data are you talking just harvest numbers.
Have you stopped into any shops last few years and seen that number of rams.
Not that it matters but been chasing sheep around since the late 70s and have seen quit a few changes.
There is LEH talk going around but may be more focused on bighorns.

[nelsonob1]

If you have hunted long enough you will understand how mistakes are made. The government has made us into point and size counters and inevitably, and for many reasons, mistakes are made. Simply report the error, pay the ticket and move on with a lesson learnt.

For those who prefer to stand in judgement, take up badminton, the game would better suit you.

[Blacktail1]

If you have hunted long enough you will understand how mistakes are made. The government has made us into point and size counters and inevitably, and for many reasons, mistakes are made. Simply report the error, pay the ticket and move on with a lesson learnt.

For those who prefer to stand in judgement, take up badminton, the game would better suit you. well said!!!

[LBM]

If you have hunted long enough you will understand how mistakes are made. The government has made us into point and size counters and inevitably, and for many reasons, mistakes are made. Simply report the error, pay the ticket and move on with a lesson learnt.

For those who prefer to stand in judgement, take up badminton, the game would better suit you.

How long does one have to hunt, been hunting going on 50 years and the same for the people I hunt with, no one has shot a undersized animal.
So its the governments fault that this happens. To bad something has to die to learn a lesson.

[nelsonob1]

How long does one have to hunt, been hunting going on 50 years and the same for the people I hunt with, no one has shot a undersized animal.
So its the governments fault that this happens. To bad something has to die to learn a lesson.

The ones you and your infallible company killed probably felt much better about dying. Apparently that comes with the points. Do you play badminton?

[mod7rem]

Yes some good points, but when you say go by data, what data are you talking just harvest numbers.
Have you stopped into any shops last few years and seen that number of rams.
Not that it matters but been chasing sheep around since the late 70s and have seen quit a few changes.
There is LEH talk going around but may be more focused on bighorns.

I would be referring to harvest data, number counts, habitat condition, lamb survival, etc.
Data that helps our biologists to figure out the health and sustainability of thinhorn populations.
I haven’t stopped in any taxidermy shops for a long time. Ive been doing my own taxi work for probably 10 years now.

[LBM]

I would be referring to harvest data, number counts, habitat condition, lamb survival, etc.
Data that helps our biologists to figure out the health and sustainability of thinhorn populations.
I haven’t stopped in any taxidermy shops for a long time. Ive been doing my own taxi work for probably 10 years now.

Yes all info can be of good use, you might notice a change if you did check out a few shops, but if a guy does good sheep
he will quit often get more to do well others wont .

[LBM]

The ones you and your infallible company killed probably felt much better about dying. Apparently that comes with the points. Do you play badminton?

Dead is dead only difference is some are legal to be taken and others are not. Did play badminton in high school for 1 year maybe it helped me learn how to count.

[mike31154]

Apparently the need or urge is alive & well, quite a few illegal kills this season already. Sobering numbers. I know for myself, if any doubt exists, I pass. Self defence from a predator is another matter.

"This is one of the worst hunting seasons for five point elk being killed during a six point only season" - BC Conservation Officer Service

We are to understand that the East Kootenay zone of Region 4 in Southern BC has recorded 38 illegal bull elk shot by hunters to date. Based on past seasons, the last 10 days of the season produce 1 to 2 more illegal elk reports per day.
Region 4 East Kootenay zone may close out the 2021 elk season with around 50 illegal bull elk found/reported.
The million dollar questions....
1) Why is this happening?
2) What impacts will the illegal take have on elk and elk hunting opportunity?

https://www.peninsulanewsreview.com/news/hunters-urged-to-come-forward-after-grizzly-bear-elk-illegally-shot-and-left-near-elk-valley/?fbclid=IwAR1ZrXusuJNDfpDp4DY9PZbSrWdXNeq_miL33nh3 vwPPh01laDNxn73yahY

[LBM]

Apparently the need or urge is alive & well, quite a few illegal kills this season already. Sobering numbers. I know for myself, if any doubt exists, I pass. Self defence from a predator is another matter.

"This is one of the worst hunting seasons for five point elk being killed during a six point only season" - BC Conservation Officer Service

We are to understand that the East Kootenay zone of Region 4 in Southern BC has recorded 38 illegal bull elk shot by hunters to date. Based on past seasons, the last 10 days of the season produce 1 to 2 more illegal elk reports per day.
Region 4 East Kootenay zone may close out the 2021 elk season with around 50 illegal bull elk found/reported.
The million dollar questions....
1) Why is this happening?
2) What impacts will the illegal take have on elk and elk hunting opportunity?

https://www.peninsulanewsreview.com/news/hunters-urged-to-come-forward-after-grizzly-bear-elk-illegally-shot-and-left-near-elk-valley/?fbclid=IwAR1ZrXusuJNDfpDp4DY9PZbSrWdXNeq_miL33nh3 vwPPh01laDNxn73yahY

Yes pretty sad the stuff that is going on out there, and the amount it is happening. With rifle moose opening tomorrow, and as mentioned elk getting close to closing Im sure there will be lots more happening.

[HikerHunter]

because cannibalism is bad? Probably harder to find a butcher...People aren't tasty?do you want any other foolish reasons to go with your foolish question?

[Agustin]

Apparently the need or urge is alive & well, quite a few illegal kills this season already. Sobering numbers. I know for myself, if any doubt exists, I pass. Self defence from a predator is another matter.

"This is one of the worst hunting seasons for five point elk being killed during a six point only season" - BC Conservation Officer Service

We are to understand that the East Kootenay zone of Region 4 in Southern BC has recorded 38 illegal bull elk shot by hunters to date. Based on past seasons, the last 10 days of the season produce 1 to 2 more illegal elk reports per day.
Region 4 East Kootenay zone may close out the 2021 elk season with around 50 illegal bull elk found/reported.
The million dollar questions....
1) Why is this happening?
2) What impacts will the illegal take have on elk and elk hunting opportunity?

https://www.peninsulanewsreview.com/news/hunters-urged-to-come-forward-after-grizzly-bear-elk-illegally-shot-and-left-near-elk-valley/?fbclid=IwAR1ZrXusuJNDfpDp4DY9PZbSrWdXNeq_miL33nh3 vwPPh01laDNxn73yahY

Those are absolute numbers with no context, so it is hard to know whether one should be alarmed or not. Did the elk tags increase in the same period? By how much? Did the illegal harvest numbers decrease in other regions? By how much? What is the variance in previous years’ data?

[longwalk]

To answer the original question of why? I have forward facing eyes and canine teeth. I guess that makes me a predator with an instinctual drive.

[Imdone]

Rather a weird question of the OP on a hunting site, then too state they then harvested a small Caribou.

If it's legal, it's Lawful. We as hunters don't set the seasons. Game managers do. If it's legal it's legal. We count on others to make seasons, for sustainability and conservation. If you want to shoot WT Does in antlerless season, and it's legal go for it. Same for a squeaky 5 pt. Bull Caribou that meets the requirements, it's your call. And if legal, don't feel bad about your decision, use and enjoy the animal, the hunt, the experience.

Don't be intimidated by the elitist know it all types that chastise anyone for taking what is a Legal Harvest.

If it's NOT LEGAL don't shoot. And if you do and its deemed to not meet legal requirements, than throw the dam book at the fool that couldn't hold out, if in doubt don't shoot! Make examples and advertise the fact of charges and penalties. Before long, the trigger happy , so called entitled hunter type will learn there are HUGE CONSEQUENCES for not being absolutely positive of correctly identifying LEGAL REQUIREMENTS.

[LBM]

Rather a weird question of the OP on a hunting site, then too state they then harvested a small Caribou.

If it's legal, it's Lawful. We as hunters don't set the seasons. Game managers do. If it's legal it's legal. We count on others to make seasons, for sustainability and conservation. If you want to shoot WT Does in antlerless season, and it's legal go for it. Same for a squeaky 5 pt. Bull Caribou that meets the requirements, it's your call. And if legal, don't feel bad about your decision, use and enjoy the animal, the hunt, the experience.

Don't be intimidated by the elitist know it all types that chastise anyone for taking what is a Legal Harvest.

If it's NOT LEGAL don't shoot. And if you do and its deemed to not meet legal requirements, than throw the dam book at the fool that couldn't hold out, if in doubt don't shoot! Make examples and advertise the fact of charges and penalties. Before long, the trigger happy , so called entitled hunter type will learn there are HUGE CONSEQUENCES for not being absolutely positive of correctly identifying LEGAL REQUIREMENTS.

Not sure what your saying , i never harvested a caribou, if your talking about me.
The actions of hunters have an impact on why there is seasons etc and why there changed by those with the power to do so.

[LBM]

And it just keeps going on, how is a mule deer supossed to get to be a legal 4 point when shot as a 3 point, do people just not care to count points, or what does private property no trespassing mean.
Is it just meat hunters are people starving that bad.

[abbyfireguy]

I am inclined to post less and seldom post pictures anymore.
But, really tired of meeting inexperienced hunters in the field and seeing what they think is
ethical,hunting practices.
More experience and mentoring is a must.
I enjoy taking new hunters out with our group and teaching them as much as they can absorb from us.
Our oldest member is 90 and can still get out and enjoy hunting(he no longer packs animals out ).
The wisdom from decades of ethical hunting that can be shared with new hunters is one of the most important
parts of new hunting careers .
To take an over simplified course to be legal and pushed out the door to figure it out on your own is definately
not a good thing.
Unfortunately not every new hunter has an experienced person to mentor them.
I know it’s pie in the sky dreaming, just thankful I had good examples for me to follow 45 years ago
when I started hunting!

[Bugle M In]

Last season around Cache Creek several of us came across a dead MD4x3.
What was also there was much of what was a 5x4 MD.
(we know this because a few saw this individual with the buck in his box and right below in his campsite)
From what it looks like, he shot the 4x3 (we heard those shots...many of us and all knew where it was coming from) first.
Barely a 4x3.
And then we figure he saw the 5x4 and instead wanted that one. (totally EGO there)
And we heard those shots as well right afterwards and why we heard so many shots.
Sad part was, we saw the camp, his wife, the buck, but no one went up there til the next morning and only then discovered the
Dead 4x3 and basically a large amount of edible meat from the 5x4 still lying there.
By then that fellow and wife and kids and his dog, were long gone.
His Tracker he tried to drive up the hill as well!!!
(which is also not allowed!)
There are now 3 campsites with multiple hunters just waiting to have a chat with him this season.
My group will be one of them, and we all know his name! (B.U.)
Cant wait!!

I have come across a couple of dead MD Doe up there, and a couple of MD bucks (young ones with antlers sawed off, and not from
the skull) over the past few years.
They even cut the head off a MD Doe, and propped it up on top to make the deer look like it was bedded.
Dont know why?
IF it was my friends son coming in with vehicle after hearing the shots and wanting to see who got lucky and they got scared??
(we heard the truck take off)
Were they using it for bait for wolves???
Who knows???
Antlers being sawed off tells me someone wanted it for medicinal purposes or to sell antlers for dogs.
(they fetch good money now)

So, Money is one reason.
But i think what you are talking about LBM is a bunch of characters that like to think they are "big time hunters".
Guys with no respect for the wildlife, no respect for the lifestyle etc.
ITs all about them, and only them.
And yes, they will take away opportunity from everyone else.
Especially when we are talking sheep and goat.

I would really like to see folks who do this shit lose their guns, trucks, campers and trailers.
Anything and everything they had on them during the offence if caught!

If you make a mistake and self report it, then fine, stuff happens.
Too many times and you are "out"!
But much of the times it is "full on intentional".
These folks need to pay by losing everything.

Then you will see folks "smarten the F up" real quick!!
And if we all want to keep on hunting "legally", we should be telling the government that those are the penalties we want to see
happen in the future.

[nelsonob1]

Lots of hunters out there doing just fine, enjoying the sport and camaraderie. Trying hard to follow the ever changing rules. Good on them and i hope they are having a great season, maybe even with a bit of killing involved.

Maybe we could have a separate forum for elite hunters. It could be at the top of the forum list so we can all look up to them, and they down at the rabble below.

[Bugle M In]

there are plenty of hunters following the rules.
But, as the OP sated, there has been a significant amount of game taken, ie: sheep that were not legal.
And there is enough bs still out therein the field.
I come across it every year.

So, the question is why are some so quick to pull the trigger and others compelled to go a break the code of ethics?

I look at it as this.
There are 2 groups of people in this world.
You lose your wallet (fell out of your pocket or you left it on the seat/table)
Someone finds it.
Either they get in touch with you or give it to the proper authorities to get it back to you.
The other will stick it in their pocket, go thru it when convenient and take what they want and throw the rest of it in the garbage.

IF you make a mistake, self report it and learn and the CO's should go light on that person.
Do it too often, then maybe you shouldn't be hunting (I would feel safer too!).
But those that do lose their wits or are truly unethical, should lose everything associated with their hunts if caught and
prosecuted.

Pretty black and white for me.
No elitisms here, imo.

[j270wsm]

Couple weeks ago there was 2 5pt elk and a griz sow found dead north of elkford. Bulls were close to each other and 200meters off the fsr. I’m honestly more pissed about the elk than the griz.

According to the local CO’s, this is the worst yr for 5pts that they’ve seen in the last 10yrs.
For some people, successfully filling a tag is more important than ethics and following the laws.

[mod7rem]

If it's legal, it's Lawful. We as hunters don't set the seasons. Game managers do. If it's legal it's legal. We count on others to make seasons, for sustainability and conservation. If you want to shoot WT Does in antlerless season, and it's legal go for it. Same for a squeaky 5 pt. Bull Caribou that meets the requirements, it's your call. And if legal, don't feel bad about your decision, use and enjoy the animal, the hunt, the experience.

Don't be intimidated by the elitist know it all types that chastise anyone for taking what is a Legal Harvest.

If it's NOT LEGAL don't shoot. And if you do and its deemed to not meet legal requirements, than throw the dam book at the fool that couldn't hold out, if in doubt don't shoot! Make examples and advertise the fact of charges and penalties. Before long, the trigger happy , so called entitled hunter type will learn there are HUGE CONSEQUENCES for not being absolutely positive of correctly identifying LEGAL REQUIREMENTS.

I agree with you. There’s a real trend on this site of hunters wanting to judge other hunters even when they are legally following regulations.

[nelsonob1]

Interesting that there are 7 pages of hunters judging hunters to this vacuous thread yet only one facile response to a junior member post re looking for a hunter mentor or partner.

[Bugle M In]

Interesting that there are 7 pages of hunters judging hunters to this vacuous thread yet only one facile response to a junior member post re looking for a hunter mentor or partner.
Your right.
I can see a sheep hunt being hard for someone with little to no experience but wants to get out there and "learn" what to look
for and what is legal (same for goat).
Problem is, i dont think there are many that want to take someone up to their honey hole.
And quite possibly the rookie might have a spot picked that the mentor knows is a waste of time, so why go.
I think there are plenty of videos by the WSS and others on what to look for etc, so that people dont take undersized or wrong
gender game.
But in the end, if you are looking at something, and are questioning it, and trying to convince yourself it is "probably legal",
then its probably best not to shoot.
You need to be 100% certain.
And yes, those with experience are able to take game just "inside the wire".
I just cant consider shooting something, and the whole time walking up to the kill "hoping" i was right.
I want to walk up and enjoy the moment.
Not worry about a game check and what the CO thinks.
Thats about as much mentoring as i can give on the subject.
Otherwise hire a guide i suppose??

[mod7rem]

QUOTE=nelsonob1;2292930]Interesting that there are 7 pages of hunters judging hunters to this vacuous thread yet only one facile response to a junior member post re looking for a hunter mentor or partner.[/QUOTE]



Your right.
I can see a sheep hunt being hard for someone with little to no experience but wants to get out there and "learn" what to look
for and what is legal (same for goat).
Problem is, i dont think there are many that want to take someone up to their honey hole.
And quite possibly the rookie might have a spot picked that the mentor knows is a waste of time, so why go.
I think there are plenty of videos by the WSS and others on what to look for etc, so that people dont take undersized or wrong
gender game.
But in the end, if you are looking at something, and are questioning it, and trying to convince yourself it is "probably legal",
then its probably best not to shoot.
You need to be 100% certain.
And yes, those with experience are able to take game just "inside the wire".
I just cant consider shooting something, and the whole time walking up to the kill "hoping" i was right.
I want to walk up and enjoy the moment.
Not worry about a game check and what the CO thinks.
Thats about as much mentoring as i can give on the subject.
Otherwise hire a guide i suppose??

Or, it might be that a lot of experienced hunters already have lots of people in their lives that need or want mentoring. Sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandkids, friends, etc.

[Bugle M In]

QUOTE=nelsonob1;2292930]Interesting that there are 7 pages of hunters judging hunters to this vacuous thread yet only one facile response to a junior member post re looking for a hunter mentor or partner.

True.
Its hard to find the time it seems.
Certainly for me and my friends these days.

My thoughts on this are simple.
If the animal, say the tine "borders" on being illegal, I just don't shoot it, even if it were borderline legal.
I just don't.
I will wait for a time when it is "certainly legal".
That's the simplest way for me to explain it to anyone new.


Or, it might be that a lot of experienced hunters already have lots of people in their lives that need or want mentoring. Sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandkids, friends, etc.[/QUOTE]

[nelsonob1]

QUOTE=nelsonob1;2292930]Interesting that there are 7 pages of hunters judging hunters to this vacuous thread yet only one facile response to a junior member post re looking for a hunter mentor or partner.




Or, it might be that a lot of experienced hunters already have lots of people in their lives that need or want mentoring. Sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandkids, friends, etc.[/QUOTE]

True. Its hard to generalize from personal experience but i know a few younger and those new to hunting get disillusioned from the lack of results. Consider elk hunting. If someone doesnt show you the basics you have little or no chance at a legal bull. Like trying to fly a plane by watching videos.

[Bustercluck]

Or, it might be that a lot of experienced hunters already have lots of people in their lives that need or want mentoring. Sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandkids, friends, etc.

True. Its hard to generalize from personal experience but i know a few younger and those new to hunting get disillusioned from the lack of results. Consider elk hunting. If someone doesnt show you the basics you have little or no chance at a legal bull. Like trying to fly a plane by watching videos.[/QUOTE]
I’ve had two new hunters and their kids(plus my kids) with me for the last two years. I’d happily take on more if they were near me and we got along.

[LBM]

and it continues

[MichelD]

I don't kill that many, that's my answer. I would've if I could've and I'm not picky either. I'm enthusiastic, just not that good at it. Until this year I hadn't shot a deer since 2018 and last shot a bear in 2019.

[slowjo]

i believe the OP is referring to the urgency that some hunters feel to pull the trigger without first identifying that their quarry is legal.
social media plays an enormous part, in that hunters who are using social media are continually and constantly inundated with hundreds of thousands of ‘trophy pics’ and tales/pics of successful hunts. an individual can begin to feel an increasing amount of pressure to make a kill. i can attest to this personally, and i make it a point to remove apps like facebook and instagram from my device for months at a time. This helps me to concentrate and focus on my own ambitions, plans, friends and family, and to not get caught up in other’s successes or lack of my own.
remember, COMPARISON IS THE THIEF OF JOY.
i like to focus on lots of different aspects of the hunt. the who, what, where, when and how. the silence, the friendships, the laughs, the sunsets and sunrises, the fleeting glimpses of wildlife, the opportunity, the persistence, and of course the ultimate prize of a successful harvest. the latter being just an aspect of the hunt, not the sole focus.
although some may disagree, kudos to the individuals who self report. while many may be plain negligence, i’m sure there are truly some honest mistakes within the reported incidents.

[slowjo]

True.
Its hard to find the time it seems.
Certainly for me and my friends these days.

My thoughts on this are simple.
If the animal, say the tine "borders" on being illegal, I just don't shoot it, even if it were borderline legal.
I just don't.
I will wait for a time when it is "certainly legal".
That's the simplest way for me to explain it to anyone new.


Or, it might be that a lot of experienced hunters already have lots of people in their lives that need or want mentoring. Sons, daughters, nephews, nieces, grandkids, friends, etc.[/QUOTE]

this is wonderful advice for both new and experienced hunters. if it’s on the cusp of being legal or illegal, let it walk. save your bullets/arrows/bolts for animals that are obviously legal.

[LBM]

and it continues on, does any one even read the regs. or posted signs, I guess they just have to kill something that bad.

[IronNoggin]

and it continues on, does any one even read the regs. or posted signs, I guess they just have to kill something that bad.

Give it up Hugger.
More than a little jaded with your condescending and finger pointing attitude.

Nog

[wideopenthrottle]

the air gets a little thin that high up on your horse

[boxhitch]

and it continues on, does any one even read the regs. or posted signs, I guess they just have to kill something that bad.referring to something in particular?
or just the voices

[DarekG]

https://media.makeameme.org/created/the-amount-of-8qi5t4.jpg

[LBM]

Give it up Hugger.
More than a little jaded with your condescending and finger pointing attitude.

Nog

If you feel the killing of undersized animals, and/or illegal activity is ok that is your opinion, it seems many others do as well so maybe that is why so much
of it seems to happen. If thinking its wrong makes me a hugger then so be it. Some seem to think its a issue as well. If such killing leads to more hunting
restrictions or closures im sure you and the others will be the first to be bitching about that as well but then its usually to late.

[LBM]

Last year was bad enough that they mention it in the regs, BCWF brings it up but hunters keep shooting elk less then the legal 6 points
along with short and under age rams, it will all be shut down some day.

[Rayne]

That doesn’t fall into the need to kill. That is either a mistake or those people are the shoot now count later type. We call those poachers. LBM you should stop fishing. When was the last time to actually harvested something?

[wildcatter]

Last year was bad enough that they mention it in the regs, BCWF brings it up but hunters keep shooting elk less then the legal 6 points
along with short and under age rams, it will all be shut down some day.

You barking up the wrong tree and this is the wrong forum.
Perhaps should find one from the natives.

[Samsquantch]

As long as they are legal, to eat them. Same as yanking up a carrot from the garden. Any other questions?

[ratherbefishin]

I kill animals every time I drink a glass of water,millions and millions of innocent animals …

[Norwestalta]

There's a saying my hunting partner would say.
If you shoot the little ones, you'll never shoot a big one.

Makes sense and I understand both sides of the debate which shouldn't even be debatable because if it's legal it's legal and illegal is illegal and perhaps hunters should keep their own ethics to themselves rather then try to force them on someone else.

[MichelD]

Never been my problem since I bought my first icence in 1968. Most years I've been lucky to get one to eat, not a herd of 'em.

[LBM]

You barking up the wrong tree and this is the wrong forum.
Perhaps should find one from the natives.

Well would think you are right, you would think people that hunt would be concerned about illegal sized animals being shot
and possible reg changes from that but i guess not, since this is taking opportunity from others.
When i took core they expressed how you must identify your target, and the back ground behind it,
but from some of the responses guess doesnt really matter.
Just find it weird a wolf , bear or cat kills something and all cry like such a waste and end of world a human kills something
illegal and or leaves it and its ok just part of hunting.

[Squamch]

I only kill legal animals legally, and would decry anyone doing otherwise. Is that what this is about, or is it about "undersized" or immature, but otherwise legal, animals being shot?

[high horse Hal]

Well would think you are right, you would think people that hunt would be concerned about illegal sized animals being shot
and possible reg changes from that but i guess not, since this is taking opportunity from others.
When i took core they expressed how you must identify your target, and the back ground behind it,
but from some of the responses guess doesnt really matter.
Just find it weird a wolf , bear or cat kills something and all cry like such a waste and end of world a human kills something
illegal and or leaves it and its ok just part of hunting.maybe try changing your filter settings