Newbie questions about deer signs and what to do

[oscargot]

So I was just out yesterday walking around hunting for deer around Hope. I saw some signs and was hoping to understand what best to do in response to the signs I found..


1. Poops and Beds

While walk on a plateau full of dry dead branches I spooked what I believed to be a deer and it ran into the tree line. When I walked to where it initially got spooked I saw a bunch of droppings and some bedding imprints. Later, a the peak of a hill I once again saw a bunch of droppings and more bedding areas.

In both these locations, there wasn't a hill nearby I could setup and get a good shot since once was flat and the other was at the peak.

I guess my questions would be...
- What is generally the best course of action? Do I setup near the treeline for the first scenario and wait?
- Would the deer comeback to the area if I saw bedding signs, or does this indicate nothing more than that there are deer in the area?

2. Hoof prints and tracking.
This is a dumb questions and I feel like I know the answer but I must ask. I see some deer tracks and they sometimes head into the thick forest. Does anyone track them into the bush? I feel like I'd just end up scaring them away even further with the noise I'd make or get lost in there. I don't see how anyone can stalk hunt quietly in these bushes.

[MOOSE MILK]

Learn how to still hunt, when you arrive near your area that you think the deer are bedded in take a step and stop, freeze and using your eyes look around wait for at least one full minute, take another step, wait...try to move through the area as quietly as possible and slowly, I can't stress slowly enough. At times wait for as long as five minutes always looking for horizontal lines or a flicker of an ear.
Using binoculars causes a lot of movement, just slowly turn your head and eyes, try to keep movement to a minimum. And go slow...slow...slow!
MM

[Rayne]

Your on the right track. Once you learn a spot in side and out you can intercept them coming from different bedding areas. Your best chance with blacktails is to hunt in the rain. The heavier the better. It pushes the deer out into the cuts but they will stay close to the tree line. Try to set up where you can see the trails coming from the thick stuff and wait.
I personally find that I’ll see a deer every few times out when blacktail hunting. Seeing a deer is a good day.

[Harvest the Land]

So I was just out yesterday walking around hunting for deer around Hope. I saw some signs and was hoping to understand what best to do in response to the signs I found..


1. Poops and Beds

While walk on a plateau full of dry dead branches I spooked what I believed to be a deer and it ran into the tree line. When I walked to where it initially got spooked I saw a bunch of droppings and some bedding imprints. Later, a the peak of a hill I once again saw a bunch of droppings and more bedding areas.

In both these locations, there wasn't a hill nearby I could setup and get a good shot since once was flat and the other was at the peak.

I guess my questions would be...
- What is generally the best course of action? Do I setup near the treeline for the first scenario and wait?
- Would the deer comeback to the area if I saw bedding signs, or does this indicate nothing more than that there are deer in the area?

2. Hoof prints and tracking.
This is a dumb questions and I feel like I know the answer but I must ask. I see some deer tracks and they sometimes head into the thick forest. Does anyone track them into the bush? I feel like I'd just end up scaring them away even further with the noise I'd make or get lost in there. I don't see how anyone can stalk hunt quietly in these bushes.

Blacktails are the hardest deer species to hunt for a variety of reasons, not the least of which the rugged thick nasty jungles they live in. In my opinion, you will have much better success at hunting them if you wait for a rainy/windy day, because the extra noise from the rain/wind will drown out your own sounds, giving you more of an opportunity to get closer to the deer hideouts (it seems like you a found one). Trying to hunt blacktails when its really dry is darn near impossible in the thick timber because every step you take is really loud and they will hear you from a ways away and bolt out of there before you even see them.

Yes the deer will absolutely come back to that area, and it could be tomorrow, or it could be next week. Blacktails are like nomads, whereas a lot of the time they will bed and feed in a certain area for a few days, and then move on to a different core area for a few days, and then repeat the same process again, and then eventually will end up back in the first area maybe like a few days or a week or two later (at least that is my experience). If I were you, I would wait for a rainy day and go back to that area, and sit back as far as you can in cover, and glass that edge of timber where you saw all the sign. You could consider a tree stand to get closer if you wanted too, but it might be a little late in the season for that, as you won't have time to clear shooting lanes etc. and might be better off waiting till after the season to get a tree stand setup (with cleared shooting lanes etc).

Yes tracks are pure gold! Especially if you find big ones. I almost always follow big tracks as far as I can track them because you never know where they might lead you (to a bedding or feeding area); and even if they don't lead you to a deer at that time, it is very valuable intel that you can store in your brain to come and check out at later date.

Another thing to pay attention too, is the fact that a lot of the blacktails in the Hope area all but disappear after September, and start migrating to their winter ranges (look on Imap BC to find where various winter ranges are). So even though you have found a pocket where the deer are now, they might not be there again in a couple weeks, and won't be back till the spring.

All these points are things that you will learn over time and gain experience, as to where the deer are at certain times of the year. It takes time to learn these things. But you're on the right track. Keep it up. Good luck. And there are NO stupid questions!

[oscargot]

Thanks for the help all I'll keep adjusting my approach!

[Bugle M In]

Blacktails are a totally different game.
There are some old threads on here (granted many years ago now) on guys hunting them.
More around Sqaumish/Whistler, but it gave some good insight.
If you can find those threads, its worth looking at them.

But yes, the terrain itself that these deer live in is what makes them a huge challenge for most people.
Ans some areas i can only imagine are not that easy to hunt.
And yes, areas around Hope don't look all that much fun, but a great area for them, exactly for that reason.

[caddisguy]

You should most definitely start still hunting around in the timber.

You may find that timber that seems impenetrable actually isn't too bad once you're in there.

Those beds you see out in the open in cut blocks and such are generally used during feeding where they will lay down and chew their cud. During the spring and summer you can usually watch them from a close distance as they alternate between walking around feeding and plopping down in those beds during the day time.

As the season begins to change and the velvet starts coming off, the deer, particularly bucks start to become a lot more shy, solitary and nocturnal. Finding deer feeding or bedding in these open areas when it's light enough to see becomes rare and when it happens is usually a first light or last light show. The deer will be spending a lot of time in the timber feeding on lichen now.

Those trails going into the timber are another story. Definitely pop into the timber and start exploring. You will find more beds along the hillsides and benches inside the timber and you will discover obvious trails where deer commonly travel. In steep Region 2 terrain, primary travel routes are often logical and the same way you would decide is the best way to get from point A to point B with the least obstruction and energy spent. It's very easy to spot trails when you see long stretches of turned up dirt, or even better long lines of "brown" through the a mossy floor where moss is absent because it's constantly walked on, and rotten logs along the trail are also worn down / cut out from being stepped in.

You'll really start to find out how the deer use the area, routes up from one bench to the next, along those benches, up and down through saddles, which benches have beds, trail intersections, etc. They are just like roads... it will be obvious which are "side roads" vs main arteries. Beds will usually have primary trails and escape trails.

I used to think still hunting in the timber when it's super dry and there is lots of debris is impossible. It's not. Even if you snap a stick that sounds like a gun shot, it's not a deal breaker as long as you continue to move slowly and stop frequently.

I'll take a few slow steps, scan, a few slow steps, scan, etc. I know all the little vantage points along my routes (about every 30 yards) where I'll stop, stand, sit or lay down for at least 5 mins, sometimes a lot more. This actually keeps the deer at ease. No doubt they hear you coming and listen. You just don't want to startle them. If deer stood up and moved every time something was cracking through the woods they would never rest. If you move slowly and stop frequently, they will stay in their beds watching and listening, or even sometimes come out and investigate to see what you are.

I'll make another post here in a few to wrap this one up...

[caddisguy]

So last September, likely in the same MU that you are hunting (which btw you are probably hunting the hardest animal to hunt in one of the most challenging places to hunt them, but if you play the game on hard mode, even if you consistently fail, you will become an assassin when it comes to other hunts/species) I was watching some deer bed out in those open areas all summer and they disappeared (no longer feeding and bedding out in the open) just before bow season.

On the first day of bow season, I suspected they were bedding inside the timber on the adjescent slope. The basis for my suspicion... my wife heard a stick snap.

So, I suspect these deer around bedded only approximately 70 yards from our camp. I wasn't about to walk through the cut and head directly towards them. Never take the direct approach. Approach through the timber was the only way. Plan was to walk about 1km up the road, drop down into the thick/steep timber, creep down and up 5 draws and MAYBE have a chance.

Only problem was I'm watching all the pollen sail through the wind. The wind would be carrying my scent to them for the entirety of this lengthy approach. Soo, I sat around camp, waited and hoped. Then just like that, the wind switched. Game on?

Went ahead with the plan, still not hopwful because the timber was like a dry bird nest the entire way.

On top of the second to last draw before the deer, I had to change plans because there was a bear up there (wouldn't have even noticed without all the stopping and waiting) I knew if I spooked it, he was going to bolt and sound like a freight train, so I went down and around.

As I got closer to where I figured the deer were bedding, I find myself face to face with "a doe" (maybe 15 yards) ... I didn't even hesistate, before she stomps and blows me out I started crunching around in the leaves, toe heel, toe heel, then pausing to scratch my neck, extending my elbow as far out as it would go to exaggerate it, then crunched more leaves and repeated scratching with the other arm. Then I plopped down just like a deer would (its not particularly graceful once they lower themselves and then let gravity to the rest) made another big crunch in the leaves. I could no longer see "the doe" (turns out there was a "second" buck standing beside her that I didn't even notice despite filming it) anymore.

I lay there for 20 mins, then continued the remainder of my approach. As I got to the hillside where I believed they were bedded, I ran into the doe again. She was laying beside a log and I just noticed her ears. I repeatedly the scratching routine and "bedded down" again. So now I'm laying about 10-15 yards from where the doe is laying. After about half an hour bedded with the doe on the flat timber floor, noticed movement on the hillside above her. It was the bedded 3 pt.

I concluded this would be impossible. To get close enough to the buck to stick him with an arrow, I'd have to walk right up to that bedded doe, draw back and let it rip while she watched the whole thing.

After some contemplation, that's exactly what I did. I walked up to a spot about 5 yards away from her and drew back, buck stood up and I let the arrow go. He crashed off with the arrow in him and I sat next to that doe (5 yards away) for another 30 mins to make sure the buck expired. Even filmed her a bit while talking to her. She was completely comfortable with me. Didn't even flinch or stand up.

Hopefully this inspires you in some way to explore and hunt that timber. Region 2 is a busy place, but in all the years I've hunted it, I've never come across another hunter in the timber.

Remember, deer are very hard to spot in there. As mentioned I didn't even notice the first buck right in front of me when him and the doe came to investigate me and they were even standing up. And when I found the doe a second time, it was only her ears I noticed, and it took half an hour to notice the 3pt bedded behind her. It's movement, ears, throat patches, antlers, etc you are looking for. Seeing a full deer shape is an exception, not a norm. You need to move slowly and pause a lot, leaning against trees, sitting behind deadfall, laying just below hill crests subtly peaking over. Avoid being out in the open, stick to obstructions, scan with your peripheral, avoding moving your head. Expect deer to be doing the same. My wife and I were joking, having a Pedometer app on your phone in your pocket, moving slowly through the bush, less steps it detects the better you're doing. It's a game of hide and seek where whoever moves first loses, but you still gotta move.

BT's are more likely to sit still, watch you pass by, then slip out the back door vs standing up or running off.

There is something mystical, almost magical, about still hunting your way through mossy fern covered old growth rain forest jungles. It's addicting but can be frustrating with the expectation harvest will come easy. Main thing I've learned is everytime I think I have it all figured out, I don't, and still know little to nothing.

Slim pickings for my stomping ground now (thought it would be a gimme like last year when we made two trips and cut tags first day each time) and will probably be the case until the snow is half way down the mountain brings migratory bucks and/or rut when bucks cruise through. There was a cougar pounding the area all summer and careless (and quite illegal "recreational target shooters"... big problem around Hope/Wack, even 800 yards in the timber it's amazing how far those bullets sail cleanly or ricochet through that seemingly impenetrable timber, so be careful, lots of wreckless clowns out there, even 1km into the woods isn't safe from LML mall ninjas, gansgters, recreational shooting cut block soldiers and their tacticool SKS's, 25rd burst after 25rd mag... even talked to some of them "oh we were just shooting up at the rocks up the mountain side for fun, it's crown land we''re allowed" even though they are within 400M limit/restriction of the main road and didn't even know) blasting into the treelines with no regard for where the bullets go (my wife had bullets whistling/zinging by and hitting all around us and literally needed to crawl out a few weeks back) Never know what to expect around Hope, 1km deep in the timber up the mtn with bullets raining down all around you, or a big rave party. We had a rave party going from 6pm Saturday to around 5am Sunday morning, bass echoing through the mountains. Didn't see anything or get a wink of sleep with everything vibrating. That's LML hunting for you, unless you hike in 10km (and risk coming back to a shot up / looted vehicle/camp next day) it is what it is.

Until snow flies and/or rut, I've been playing cat and mouse with the only "resident" buck (a 2pt, there were a half dozen bucks until early August) all over the mountain (a sane person would move on for now) I don't know why I can't find him. Checking trailcam footage, he follows my routes and sniffs everything I touch like he is trying to find me. I'm not even sure if I will shoot him. I just want to be in the position to say I could have. I'm honestly enjoying the workout he is giving me playing the game and I kind of appreciate that deer. Oh yeah, always check your backtrail for deer and cats.

Last item of note, the area you are hunting has almost as many Whitetails in recent years compared to BT's, muleys and hybrids, so careful what you shoot around Hope/Chilliwack. Many still think "anything with antlers is legal". Far from it. Lots of WT's and no season for them.

Research suggestions:

Search blacktail hunting threads here on HBC

Watch any old BT vids by proguide66 (Steve Isdahl) on his "howtohunt" channel or subscribe to his Blacktail Hunter app on Apple or Google Play

Find a copy of the original "Blacktail Trophy Tactics" by Boyd Iverson (out of print) and read it twice a year (once before and once after hunting season)

[Bugle M In]

Good stuff Caddis.
Way to step in and help a junior hunter of BT out!

[caddisguy]

Good stuff Caddis.
Way to step in and help a junior hunter of BT out!

I can tell a Reg 2 inquisitive mind when I see one. There's the "I put 1600kms on the truck/atv in the last few weeks and only saw a grouse that flew away" vs the rare "I'm noticing beds, poops and tracks, trails into the timber and curious about if I should hunt the timber"

For the latter I'll start feverishly typing on my phone every time in effort to encourage, inspire, unlock clues and put on track every time... and most importantly defer to others who know a lot me than me, because at the end of the day I'm still a newb just starting to "ah hah!" once in a while. You won't find a "social media" platform with more detailed advice than HBC.

Pg66, chris, Wild One, T BONE brian, TwoSevenOh, Dan Floris and probably half a dozen others I'm forgetting are the guys you really want to read posts for golden nuggets. I've only dropped a few.

One other is you can look at mountains from a distance from afar and see the benches intersecting with saddles which are places worth checking into. More times than not, you'll uncover sign and potential.

[bconthefly]

As a lurking (brand) newbie hunter in a similar situation I had to chime in with a huge thanks to Caddis for his response on this thread. Extremely helpful. Working hard to convert found poop and tracks into actual success and I really appreciate your taking the time to provide this detailed advice. Cheers,

[caddisguy]

As a lurking (brand) newbie hunter in a similar situation I had to chime in with a huge thanks to Caddis for his response on this thread. Extremely helpful. Working hard to convert found poop and tracks into actual success and I really appreciate your taking the time to provide this detailed advice. Cheers,

Thank you for coming out of the shadows and saying hello. Welcome to HBC. We're glad to have you and many eager to help.

Poop and tracks are a bonus and I often stop to guess how old. I don't read much into it though. Fresh track in the mud or snow that weren't there the day prior, that buck could be a long way away (but noteworthy it was there) and sometimes I scratch my head in timber crawling with deer at the lack of poop wondering if they carry little baggies to clean up after themselves.

[boilerroom]

As a lurking (brand) newbie hunter in a similar situation I had to chime in with a huge thanks to Caddis for his response on this thread. Extremely helpful. Working hard to convert found poop and tracks into actual success and I really appreciate your taking the time to provide this detailed advice. Cheers,

^^^^^^^^^ 2nd that CG - I've really enjoyed your input on HBC and appreciate you.

[srthomas75]

I wish that I could devote the amount of time that caddisguy does to hunting. Getting into the situations and having those experiences would be very rewarding. well written and good advice for everyone even in different style hunts.

[brian]

To the original poster, to answer a few of your questions. Will the deer come back? Maybe! They are actually individuals making individual choices to any situation. If they feel safe where they are and they are still using the area then they will likely be back. But there is never a guarantee of that. If they don’t feel safe they may only be back out in the open on the edges of the light or in the darkness. Should you go into the timber after them? Absolutely yes you should! But go lightly at first, make sure you feel comfortable in there and can navigate your way around. As caddisguy says, sometimes it’s not about being a ninja. It’s about the kind of noise you make. Fool them or confuse the piss out of them, just don’t sound like a human. It’s weird, they get more concerned when it sounds like something is trying to sneak up on them but not being successful rather than hearing something that is not trying to cover its noises. On very noisy days I move around slowly without trying to cover my sounds. Often I will sit for a bit, then move always listening for deer. One other thing, the noises in the forest have their own timber to them. Little critters can sound big in dry forests. I can’t tell you how many squirrels made my heart start to pound, or even how many times I slowly hunted down falling maple leaves mistaking them for deer sounds. They all have a cadence to them. Learn to separate the cadence of the different animals. Also remember, generally only big critters snap branches. Where I hunt snapped branches means deer, bear, or human. I like the sound of a snapped branch. I also like hunting the noisy stuff sometimes because I am able to hear them as well. Killed a fair amount of deer that way.


I don't know why I can't find him. Checking trailcam footage, he follows my routes and sniffs everything I touch like he is trying to find me. almost like he is patterning you. I hear they will do that, Especially the Wiley old ones. That’s why I like to try and switch it up all the time.

[mike31154]

Welp I've been after deer for a few years now with some close calls but no success. I've spotted & bumped them in the open as well as in timber. Both WT & Mulies. Any sign whether droppings or tracks is good, confirms their presence. There's barely a time I don't find some sign when I'm out. Sometimes it's pretty old. As caddisguy mentions, even with fresh sign, by the time you discover it the critter could be long gone. It's amazing the amount of ground they can cover when they're in a hurry. While you were hiking it may have either seen, heard or whiffed your scent & bolted well before you got there. Perhaps obvious but whenever you're moving keep the wind in your face!

My last outing in the alpine a few days ago I'm fairly certain I spotted a deer in the timber. I was using my canoe as transport & putting ashore every so often for a short hike. Entered the timber very slowly stopping often to look around with the binos. It was while I was standing on a downed tree that I caught a glimpse of what looked like antlers in a sunlit patch. It was a fair distance away so couldn't get a clear look. Saw additional movement of what looked like the side of the animal. Got off the tree & did the slow approach, a few steps, stop, glass. Never did catch another glimpse, the going was a bit tricky. Plenty of fresh tracks along the shoreline.

Even though I was once again unsuccessful in my pursuit of deer it's still great to get out to this favourite spot of mine. I shot 3 ducks & caught 3 trout. While fileting the fish after putting ashore to head home, 2 moose entered the lake at the far end. The wind had totally calmed & the surface of the lake was a mirror!

https://dm2302files.storage.live.com/y4merGr7bB_k1ostcXvjFLDgNgAgy_2X6nUMqw2J1kOkphbTSM 1xh7vbf1CFsJlMKHodKNw0v7YP2GUEtTW61LgS9r3IfNFMkWjh h_Oh82JuowKFbdZ183J8sfy2ovJ2_-10gTY6jqxDt-jEeDtrotptYaHJoAE13yYDfdwwzT_ZeV-4VcJA_tfy1ZwprawmM7b?width=1024&height=498&cropmode=none

[brian]

As caddisguy mentions, even with fresh sign, by the time you discover it the critter could be long gone. Or it could be right around the corner. For me fresh sign means it’s time to slow right down and put my game face on. That’s one of the conundrums of hunting, you could be spending but loads of time and effort hunting nothing, or it could be right there under your nose. Even spooked deer may not be blown out of an area completely. One of the blacktails favourite tactics is to make a big show of stotting away, it sounds like they have headed to the next province. Only they will stop dead around 50 yards away and check their back trail. Often then they will slink off to their next safest hidey hole. So Even spooked blacktails can be a lot closer than you think they are post spooking.

[brian]

And that is a beauty of a canoe mike! I have serious boat envy going on here.

[caddisguy]

almost like he is patterning you. I hear they will do that, Especially the Wiley old ones. That’s why I like to try and switch it up all the time.

Hey Brian!

Thank you for jumping in here. That two point isn't a wiley old one, that's for sure. Definitely a youngin. Watching him on the cams, he just seems kind of goofy. Almost reminds me of a puppy. He might be trying to pattern me, but I have been quite random myself. Sometimes even I don't know what I am going to do next. Also rather than hunting together, my wife and I have been covering different areas to better the odds of one us being in the right place at the right time.

What are your thoughts / experience about early rattling, between velvet off time and pre rut time (like now) ... I have read a lot of mixed opinions on the matter.

I am somewhat interested in trying a small amount of light rattling. My line of thinking is that it would be best to save that for when there is actually rut activity, rather than doing it now and deer identifying that as my signature sound before rut time. That said, I am quite confident that two point is currently the only buck around and it will stay that way until the snow is half way down the mountain or rut comes, so probably not much risk in giving it a try to see if I can exploit what I perceive to be his extra curious personality. He does seem keen on testing out his new head gear, albeit against the trailcam a doe. I think that he thinks he has a massive rack. It's funny. I nick-named him "Fingers" because it looks like he's throwing a couple peace signs. I could imagine him being interested in some social sparring. Just wondered your thoughts, if it is worth a try.

[brian]

I have never had any luck rattling, I try it a few times every year but am never able to get anything to come in. It’s strange some people swear by it for blacktails and others like myself get nothing. What I have had tremendous success with is mouth calling a snort wheeze after being snorted at myself. Just mirror their calls. It can bring those deer right back to you (as long as they snorted first), and I have gotten bucks moving with mouth calling doe in heat grunts.

[caddisguy]

I have never had any luck rattling, I try it a few times every year but am never able to get anything to come in. It’s strange some people swear by it for blacktails and others like myself get nothing. What I have had tremendous success with is mouth calling a snort wheeze after being snorted at myself. Just mirror their calls. It can bring those deer right back to you (as long as they snorted first), and I have gotten bucks moving with mouth calling doe in heat grunts.

I think I have only been grunted at 3x in my life

Been huffed at by a lot of does until I learned how to mitigate that (proguide tips)

I'll try tickling a rattle set from a pair of antlers that came from that area from a few different spots and see if anything comes of it. Science experiment! (That is only conclusive if successful :))

[Bugle M In]

I have, but its been hit or mostly miss!
Younger deer generally pop their heads out to look.
Think by that point the bigger boys have their heads too far up a doe's behind to hear:grin:.
Same goes for grunts etc, but actually have caused deer to bolt more times than not, but certainly not "Walk towards me".

This all could be "Timing" related.
A little too late in the season possibly or for some too early???
See it work on TV, but not so much "in person".
But then again, others burp or rattle and have experiences that say it works.

[caddisguy]

Figured I'd bump this thread since things are about to start to heat up.

I came up empty in bow season and spent most of September playing cat and mouse with the only buck (a tiny fork) in the area.

Virtually no activity until the last couple weeks. At least a dozen different does, mostly mature and one huge two point that I believe to be older and regressive (chubby, saggy and dwarfs most 4pt racks and body mass) The migratory crowd is coming back even despite snow and they are sticking around.

They are sticking around and using the area. Starting in the next week or so until the end of the season, should be a lot of activity with bucks cruising and pestering the does 24/7 creating all sorts of movement beyond the "most of October" short bed to feed and feed to bed in the cover of complete darkness movements.

Can't wait to get back out this weekend. Might even end up being able to finish the season hunting full time, depending on what my company decides. Misalignment between their wants/needs and mine. I'm firm and financially comfortable (can be a bum for a year no problem) Just awaiting a decision. Will ask for an update tomorrow. Rather get my two weeks in sooner than later if a split is inevitable. Hopefully we can work it out (I like the company and working there) BUT if it comes to it and I have the extra time, I'm going to film as much as I can to show a fraser valley thick timber deer hunt from start to finish, sign, methodology and all that good stuff. I'm no expert on the subject, but I'm sure many other beginners will find it useful. Either way I'll try to film as much as I can with whatever little or ample time I end up with.