Pointers

[Bustercluck]

Is there anybody out there who wants to share some experience on pointers?

Im in the beginning stages of looking for a dog. I was going to wait until my golden left us, but the more I think about it the more I think he’s going to be around for another 5-6 years or more.

Anyways. I’ve been looking at the Irish red and white setter. They seem to be the best balance of what I’m looking for as far as Google tells me anyways.

Is there any other breeds out there I should be looking at? Has to be good in cold weather. they all seem to have intense energy levels, so lower energy would probably be better as it’ll be a family pet too. Ease of training would be a bonus, because I was hoping my 12 year old would help with a lot of that as it would likely be his dog in the end and I was hoping he could have his hand in there as much as possible.

My brother has a griffon, but I think I’d like something a little more point and flush specific.

[Blacktail1]

A friend of mine and I were chatting the other day about the German shorthair pointers I used to have . Super neat dogs . During our conversation he had made mention of puddle pointers and how they were without a doubt one of the most intelligent dogs he had ever seen . They seem like an interesting breed.

[Bustercluck]

Those pudel pointers look pretty interesting. I just had a quick read about them. Sounds like a well rounded gun dog. Probably a decent retriever and pointer that’s well suited for thick bush. Probably similar to a griff.

[jlirot]

I love my Wirehaired pointer. But a Pudlepointer would be on my short list. Really pretty dogs. I would also look into munsterlanders. My buddy's English Setter is a hunting machine!

[Would Rather Be Fishing]

I have an English Pointer - crazy energy, but a great combo of family dog and hunting dog. He gets along well with the kids, super patient, but requires a LOT of time outside. Runs like a rocket, super smart, very handsome :-)

[adriaticum]

Nothing pointery, or poodley likes cold weather I think.
I made that mistake with my poodle.
Irish setters are not good pets IMO, my family had one and it bit a few people, was total wacko.

My family had English pointers , brittanys and jagd terriers on regular basis.
None good for cold weather.
Of all the bird dogs I love English pointers the most.
Not exactly pet quality dogs. I mean if you have a house and big yard then ok.
But they are very driven.
Maybe you could find some line that's not high energy and might make an ok pet.
Germans are great too.
Brittanys are well behaved. People who love them, really love them.

My next dog will be a Norwegian Elkhound.

When I was about 12 years old my uncle had an incredible English and I would play with that dog all day, every day.
I don't know what I did, must have wrestled with him a lot.
He cut me up so bad with his nails one day that my aunt just sprayed me with alcohol, entire body.
True story.
But my uncle had a huge property with lots of forest and river frontage and the dog could keep himself busy chasing small animals all day.
I don't remember him entering the house that much.
He was an outside dog. But a hunting dog too.

[bandit]

I have a field bred EP he’s a cracking dog looks sharp fantastic nose runs hard and temperament is on the mild side considering his heritage. He’s great with my kids and super friendly to other dogs. Contrary to what you might hear mine loves the water although I haven’t taken him duck hunting in zero degrees yet. He’s pretty easy to train, my 10 year old did most of the sit/stay/paw/kennel/lie down training without much effort.

Downside he’s a nightmare to walk on leash and needs a good hour off leash running every day. And leaves hairs all over the house no matter how often you brush him.

Not for everyone but you may find a show bred EP is a bit easier to handle. I almost bought one but was put off by the fact they’re 3-4 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier than the field bred line.

[Bustercluck]

The ep looks like it has a pretty short coat. That would be completely out of the question for me. The poor bigger would probably freeze in -20.

[mastercaster]

Griffs, pudelpointers, Deutch Drahthaars, and German wire-hairs all fall under the versatile umbrella. They'll point all upland birds, retrieve equally well on land or water (especially if they've been force fetched), they're good on searches and they track really well. They can handle cold weather and water because of their double coat but all hunters I know who shoot waterfowl over the winter months will always put neoprene vests on them for added warmth. They're all great swimmers and love the water!

As far as shedding goes it all barrels down to breeding. My griff barely sheds at all. She's never had any matted hair. The only maintenance I do with her is run a steel comb over her once every 4-5 weeks. Other owners, however, have griffs that mat a lot and they need to brush/comb them almost daily likely because they have softer coats and probably shampoo them frequently. My 4 1/2 year old griff has never been shampooed in her life. That being said, she has been hosed down a few hundred times. It's the same for pudelpointers and german wirehair pointers when it comes to their coat. It's definitely something to discuss with the breeder.

DDs and GWPs are much more sharp than griffs and pudelpointers. Every small animal they go after is likely going to come back dead. Can't tell you how many young bunnies my dog has brought back that's wet and slobbery that I just release back to the forest/bush but it may have to do more with the training. All of these dogs are easy to train and behave well in the home but they need daily exercise (twice a day) otherwise they can get into mischief out of boredom. My dog has yet to ruin a single item in the house,,,,, no furniture, no clothing, no shoes, etc, from day one but I'm retired so getting her out to exercise and train has never been an issue. She gotten run of the house since she's been 6-7 months old.

Shorthairs have even higher energy needs.

Pudelpointers and griffs are great with kids. No toddler is safe around my griff,,,,they always get a face washing with her tongue and wet beard. lol I don't know about the other versatiles but griffs tend to prefer people over dogs when they see either when out and about,,,,at least mine does.

Have never seen any of the wire-haired breeds not like water whereas I've seen a lot of the shorthairs like the English, German, weimaraners, and vizslas who don't (big time), especially when it's iced up on the edges.

The setters that are bred to hunt, shorthairs and brittanys have a more stylish point, IMHO, but none of the dogs I've mentioned above should flush birds. They're meant to hold point.

English and German shorthair pointers have a much different conformation than any of the wire-hairs or brittanys. They're MUCH deeper in the chest and because of that there's always a greater risk of bloating. That deep chest makes it difficult to fit with neoprene vests and that's if you can even get one that will go out into the extremes to hunt. If you do have a gamer you'd have to make a lot of modifications to the vest for a good fit, otherwise they're pretty much useless.

In the end, it's tough to go wrong with any of the bird dogs mentioned,,,,,,retrievers included! After all, a dog that doesn't hunt is just a cat that barks!

[BowsUp]

Good thread. Looking to get a dog. Last lab was PB wired field trial stock. Oh my, was he a handful. Minimum twice a day 45 minutes of airing/training or you had a restless dog. I did shift and the good wif worked days so he got his work in.

That said, I took braces of pheasants behind him after being told by GSP owners there were no birds in the coverts they had just pushed as we were going in. Best he did was gifting me a brace before the Perazzi toting gentlemen had finished packing up. He would point if the bird held and yes I had witnesses. Some dogs just won't push ugly cover like blackberry bushes.

Be careful you don't get more drive then you have time for. Myself, I'm thinking pudelpointer. Now to find a breeder.

[Danny_29]

I've got a pudelpointer. They are an extremely impressive breed. I'd recommend them to anybody...great pets, don't shed, highest scoring NAVDHA breed. What more do you want?

[Bustercluck]

Griffs, pudelpointers, Deutch Drahthaars, and German wire-hairs all fall under the versatile umbrella. They'll point all upland birds, retrieve equally well on land or water (especially if they've been force fetched), they're good on searches and they track really well. They can handle cold weather and water because of their double coat but all hunters I know who shoot waterfowl over the winter months will always put neoprene vests on them for added warmth. They're all great swimmers and love the water!

As far as shedding goes it all barrels down to breeding. My griff barely sheds at all. She's never had any matted hair. The only maintenance I do with her is run a steel comb over her once every 4-5 weeks. Other owners, however, have griffs that mat a lot and they need to brush/comb them almost daily likely because they have softer coats and probably shampoo them frequently. My 4 1/2 year old griff has never been shampooed in her life. That being said, she has been hosed down a few hundred times. It's the same for pudelpointers and german wirehair pointers when it comes to their coat. It's definitely something to discuss with the breeder.

DDs and GWPs are much more sharp than griffs and pudelpointers. Every small animal they go after is likely going to come back dead. Can't tell you how many young bunnies my dog has brought back that's wet and slobbery that I just release back to the forest/bush but it may have to do more with the training. All of these dogs are easy to train and behave well in the home but they need daily exercise (twice a day) otherwise they can get into mischief out of boredom. My dog has yet to ruin a single item in the house,,,,, no furniture, no clothing, no shoes, etc, from day one but I'm retired so getting her out to exercise and train has never been an issue. She gotten run of the house since she's been 6-7 months old.

Shorthairs have even higher energy needs.

Pudelpointers and griffs are great with kids. No toddler is safe around my griff,,,,they always get a face washing with her tongue and wet beard. lol I don't know about the other versatiles but griffs tend to prefer people over dogs when they see either when out and about,,,,at least mine does.

Have never seen any of the wire-haired breeds not like water whereas I've seen a lot of the shorthairs like the English, German, weimaraners, and vizslas who don't (big time), especially when it's iced up on the edges.

The setters that are bred to hunt, shorthairs and brittanys have a more stylish point, IMHO, but none of the dogs I've mentioned above should flush birds. They're meant to hold point.

English and German shorthair pointers have a much different conformation than any of the wire-hairs or brittanys. They're MUCH deeper in the chest and because of that there's always a greater risk of bloating. That deep chest makes it difficult to fit with neoprene vests and that's if you can even get one that will go out into the extremes to hunt. If you do have a gamer you'd have to make a lot of modifications to the vest for a good fit, otherwise they're pretty much useless.

In the end, it's tough to go wrong with any of the bird dogs mentioned,,,,,,retrievers included! After all, a dog that doesn't hunt is just a cat that barks!
Thanks for the post!

Ive been doing some more poking around and I actually know someone who’s involved in showing dogs. I knew they had dogs, amongst other things like reptiles and chickens, but didn’t know they showed their dogs. It turns out she has a griff and so does one of her friends and they’re going to breed them this heat or next. She said within a year she should have a litter. I’ve never met her dog, but the bonus is my wife has and my wife thinks she’s the most well behaved dog she’s ever met. My wife did t know she was a griff though. My wife hates my brothers griff because he’s an asshole and that’s why she wouldn’t even consider one. Pretty funny.

Aside form that she said they run into red and whites at shows all the time and there is breeders out west, but the waiting lists are pretty long. She’s going to do a little bit more looking for me and get a few names.

[mastercaster]

Thanks for the post!

Ive been doing some more poking around and I actually know someone who’s involved in showing dogs. I knew they had dogs, amongst other things like reptiles and chickens, but didn’t know they showed their dogs. It turns out she has a griff and so does one of her friends and they’re going to breed them this heat or next. She said within a year she should have a litter. I’ve never met her dog, but the bonus is my wife has and my wife thinks she’s the most well behaved dog she’s ever met. My wife did t know she was a griff though. My wife hates my brothers griff because he’s an asshole and that’s why she wouldn’t even consider one. Pretty funny.



Hopefully they've bred dogs before because there's a whole lot more to it than just throwing a male and female of the same breed together and hoping for the best. There's lots to consider which is why when I was looking I wanted to make sure I got a pup from at least a second breeding. Because mine came from a third time breeding I knew pretty much exactly what size the offspring would be when they became adult dogs, the quality of their coat, their temperament, and their prey drive.

You also want to know whether the parents will throw any unwanted issues like allergies, digestive problems, and if there has ever been a history of entropy (eye lid issues), tooth alignment, or skeletal (hips, elbows) problems.

Good breeders will always give you a 30 months health warranty on the pup. You generally get a non-breeding contract with the pup which can be rescinded if you jump through a few hoops like attaining a certain score on a hunt test and getting health checks on the dog for hips, elbows, and eyes when the dog is at least two years old. I had no plans on breeding so these weren't issues for me.

Definitely check for hunting titles of the parents if your plan is to hunt your dog. Good breeders will always go to the trouble to test their dogs. Btw, a lot of WPG breeders will only sell to hunting families which I think is great because that's ALWAYS been their intended use. I know when I was shopping and talking to perspective breeders the really good ones gave me the third degree concerning my plans for the dog. Two thumbs up for that,,,,,, those are responsible breeders!

One thing to note if you're considering a WPG is lot of griffs these days are no longer considered medium size dogs which is what they were intended to be. I'm seeing monster griffs out there, especially out of the States where some of them must think bigger is better which it's not. Those dogs tend to tire a whole lot quicker in the field. Check to see that the parents conform to standard,,,,females (20-22"/ 45-55 lbs.) and males (22-24" 50-60/65 lbs.).

Once again, definitely check out the other versatiles! There's a number of good breeds out there. The breeding program for DDs is top notch. Pudelpointers are great, as well.

A pic from last week:

https://i.imgur.com/F052sSX.jpg

[Redthies]

I have two Weimaraners and they are not fans of the cold. Vests are on when it gets below 5*. We had Setters when I was growing up. Those dogs are 100% nuts. I’d stay away. My neighbor has a GWP and Pudel Pointer. The PP is young, but super promising. He is out of Alberta. I’ll be hunting with them tomorrow in my bird spot where my Wiems flushed a ton of birds last week so I’ll be curious to see how they handle the same hunt. We just came back from a week of chasing birds on the Alberta side of Crows Nest and put on a ton of miles in steep rocky terrain so my two will get the day off.

[Bustercluck]

This thread is getting me excited

[elch jager]

good in cold weather
lower energy
family pet
Ease of training
I’d like something a little more point and flush (pick one... these are usually mutually exclusive)

Do you want a pet that hunts? or a serious hunting dog that is also good in the house?

I have hunted over a friends pair of Griffons. They are reactive dogs that need direction. Some would call them 'soft'. The 8 yr old is a good hunter, somewhat moody. The 3 yr old is a goof. They both point well and retrieve reliably. Great noses, they do not miss much. Lovely temperaments in the house. But they are pigs... very messy. The long hair brings all kinds of dirt in the house and you always feel like you need to go wash your hands after petting or playing with them. He needs to keep on top of ear cleaning and dental issues as well as vulva infections... not sure if that is common to all female dogs or more prevalent in the longer haired breeds.

I personally prefer hunting with a thinking dog that knows what to do and analyses each situation... more independent search. The relationship becomes more of a cooperation between hunters - each knowing their role. Rather than just obedience and reacting to stimulus. The Germans put 120 years into perfecting the ultimate hunting machine... just as they did with cars... the breeding program of the VDD is without equal. You can blindly grab a pup from any litter and know you are getting a dog that will hunt better than you can. If you consider one, be prepared to agree to at least 2 tests. These are serious dogs from serious breeders that require feedback and involvement from the owners.

If you only hunt upland birds, lots of choices that make great pets - I like springers and brittanies.

[Dutch]

You will probably never go wrong regardless of what breed you go with.If you spend the time and effort you will be rewarded I know Mastercaster s dog is great because he has put time and effort into the training regime. I have the best of both worlds my GSP is a dynamite upland dog (home schooled) but does exactly what i want and hates the rain.My lab is an ex field trials washout who is disciplined and great on the water and field regardless of weather. Do I spend time with both yes (too much according to the home minister) but I am always pleased at the end of any hunt.Oh and Brent did you really shoot those birds or did Sako get them :)https://i.imgur.com/39SRLPP.jpg?1

[Dutch]

https://i.imgur.com/P1E7AMS.jpg

[mastercaster]

Oh and Brent did you really shoot those birds or did Sako get them :)

Haha. I know what Mike is referring to. On my last day of a 4 day grouse hunt I came upon a guy who was shooting at a bunch of grouse but I held back waiting for him to get back into his truck. He drove up to me and said he just shot 5 birds but there were a a few more in the covey that my dog might put me on to.

I walked down to where he was and sure enough my griff put two up into a tree a ways off the road in thicker first growth forest. The tree was a ways down an embankment but easily close enough to shoot. These were birds I would never have shot at without a dog. In any event, I shot them and sent her in. She came back with a bird in what I thought was way too short a time. I sent her back in and she came up the bank with another. Hmmmm??

I'm still thinking that she didn't get to the birds I shot. In the end I ended up with four birds up on the road on two shots. Sako obviously found birds that the other hunter had shot but was unable to recover. They're not the birds in the photo above. lol

Here's five more from another day. It's been a great year for grouse. Many of the adults had two clutches based on the size of the coveys and the different sized birds with in them. Shows you what a dryer late spring and summer can do for the grouse population.

https://i.imgur.com/rltIYwh.jpg

[jagen mit DDrs]

Most of what is said about Versatile dogs so far are generalizations.
Crazy Energy-refers to dogs that are not worked enough.
sharpness-boils down to training and exposure,regardless of breed.PPs are not any less sharp than DDs.

Bottomline,if you don't spend time with your dog or take him hunting once in a blue moon,you will never get a "superstar"

Rainer

[Redthies]

Bottomline,if you don't spend time with your dog or take him hunting once in a blue moon,you will never get a "superstar"

You nailed it. We had a great two week bird trip, and my young Weimaraner is showing tons of potential. I am very excited for her future.

I ended up bringing my older Weimaraner along with my friends GWP and PP. it was cool to watch the different styles. My dogs hunt close (like 50 yards) so perfect for the typical BC forestry roads and thicker Bush, while his hunt much further afield. It was pretty much equal in birds put up by the two styles, but the difference is I can control my dog with hand signals, while his are being whistled, yelled or zapped via collars. They were out of sight 80% of the hunt, while mine was out of sight 10%. In the prairies (where the GWP and PP hunt a lot), their farther reach would be advantageous for sure

https://i.postimg.cc/CK6G7d8t/4784-CB5-F-9-B45-4287-8-A35-6-C660-BF15488.jpg (https://postimg.cc/sB7GDjw9)


https://i.postimg.cc/jdzhTxVw/E97-C18-DA-A15-C-4-EF2-9-D93-9-FF80091-D195.jpg (https://postimg.cc/yk8RXz8s)

[mastercaster]

^^^^ Love that first photo. I like any photo that show a bunch of versatiles. Was out a couple of months ago doing some field and water training with 4 wire-haired vizslas (only one looked wiry to me), my griff, another friend's pudelpointer, and a DD (not in the photo). It was so versatile I think it may have taken the pic. lol

https://i.imgur.com/33VIgpC.jpg

[Redthies]

Yeah, I’d say only one of the Viszlas is wired. Maybe he stole that from your buddies PP, which is so NOT wirey you would almost think it’s a chocolate lab!?

How did the Viszlas perform? I grew up with them, but most I’ve met lately are fairly spun. Probably lack of training/exercise etc though.

[mastercaster]

Yeah, I’d say only one of the Viszlas is wired. Maybe he stole that from your buddies PP, which is so NOT wirey you would almost think it’s a chocolate lab!?

How did the Viszlas perform? I grew up with them, but most I’ve met lately are fairly spun. Probably lack of training/exercise etc though.

Ya, tight coated wire-haired dogs often don't look all that wiry even though they are registered as a wire-haired breed. I have seen griffs, DDs, and German wirehairs with very smooth coats. They barely have a beard at all and no facial furnishings. The pudelpointer is actually more wiry than he looked in the photo,,,,, probably because he was still wet from the water retrieves/searches.

All those vizslas were definitely wire-hairs,,,,some were related. Super well trained! They were definite not high strung like other shorthair vizslas I've seen in the past that weren't trained to hunt. All these wire-haired vizslas came from Hungary. The gal who owned them flew over there to pick them up herself. All had Hungarian names and all commands were given to them in Hungarian. As far as I know, they may have been the only words the owner knew. lol

She was a very experience bird dog trainer and is a senior NAVHDA judge. Basically ran the show, and said what score she would have given each of the dogs after they performed a given task. She gave us some good training tips and suggestions. I was quite proud of my griff who I sent out onto the water after her best dog could't locate a dead duck that one of the guys had chucked out into these 1-2' high lily pads that choked half the pond up on the other side of the pond after her dog spent about 6-7 minutes searching for it. Sako found it after 2-3 minutes of searching. I thought for sure she'd get hung up in the lily pads but she was able to worm her way through them to get to the bird.

That same vizla, though, completed a drag search that was at least 800 yards long that zig-zagged across several fields in way less than 2 minutes. It was pretty impressive!! I've seen my dog complete 300 yard drag searches in less than a minute so I'm not sure she wouldn't be able to do a long drag like that with some practice especially if it was a live cripple. Will have to add some of that long distance stuff into her training.

One other thing that Sako didn't do all that well on was an independent search to find a duck on a huge field. Because I've trained her on waterfowl in waterfowl hunting situations WAY MORE than on upland bird scenarios, she would check in with me fairly frequently to see where I should send her. This is typically what most of her retrieves are since she's often in a blind where the dogs don't have a visual of the ducks falling. Almost every retrieve is a blind retrieve.

We just send the dogs back with verbal and whistle commands close to where we think the birds fell in the marsh grass and they always end up finding them. The dogs would likely find them on their own but it would take much longer than what you want your dog to be out of the blind for since there could be other flocks of birds coming into the decoys.

One thing that our two days of being out there in the field for most of the day told me was that it sure would be nice to have a NAVHDA chapter down here on the coast!

[Brez]

There is a fellow in Oliver that is trying to give away a couple of well trained English pointers. One is 9 years old and ranked #5 in Canada and the other is 7 years old. He is GIVING THEM AWAY! He has too many now and is also trying to sell pups. His name is Chris Bibby. Check him out on FB Upland Hunting Forum



Is there anybody out there who wants to share some experience on pointers?

Im in the beginning stages of looking for a dog. I was going to wait until my golden left us, but the more I think about it the more I think he’s going to be around for another 5-6 years or more.

Anyways. I’ve been looking at the Irish red and white setter. They seem to be the best balance of what I’m looking for as far as Google tells me anyways.

Is there any other breeds out there I should be looking at? Has to be good in cold weather. they all seem to have intense energy levels, so lower energy would probably be better as it’ll be a family pet too. Ease of training would be a bonus, because I was hoping my 12 year old would help with a lot of that as it would likely be his dog in the end and I was hoping he could have his hand in there as much as possible.

My brother has a griffon, but I think I’d like something a little more point and flush specific.

[britman101]

There is a fellow in Oliver that is trying to give away a couple of well trained English pointers. One is 9 years old and ranked #5 in Canada and the other is 7 years old. He is GIVING THEM AWAY! He has too many now and is also trying to sell pups. His name is Chris Bibby. Check him out on FB Upland Hunting Forum


Hopefully, one of those dogs can be found a new home. Pointers will need their space, and in the beginning some work for the new owner to adjust them to their new home.

[Bustercluck]

There is a fellow in Oliver that is trying to give away a couple of well trained English pointers. One is 9 years old and ranked #5 in Canada and the other is 7 years old. He is GIVING THEM AWAY! He has too many now and is also trying to sell pups. His name is Chris Bibby. Check him out on FB Upland Hunting Forum
Thanks for the tip, but I’m not quite ready to bring a dog home just yet. Well, I should say my wife isn’t ready, you have to break these things in slowly. I was hoping for sometime next year some time.

[Redthies]

One thing that our two days of being out there in the field for most of the day told me was that it sure would be nice to have a NAVHDA chapter down here on the coast!

The fellow whose dogs are pictured with my Weim was trying to get a NAVHDA chapter started here way back in 2005. Lots of people apparently claimed interest, until he asked for membership dues. Then the interest dried up quickly.

My dogs are trained to our own specs, so not sure how they’d stack up in a test. They sure do what we ask well though, and put a smile on our faces!

[Redthies]

http://www.huntingbc.ca/forum/showthread.php?3014-New-NAVHDA-Chapter-in-BC

The NAVHDA thread...

[bubba350]

I have a three year old Pudelpointer from cedarwoods in Idaho. I waited two years to get her and the genetics speak for themselves. She is a monster in the field and a retrieving machine in the marsh. She also has a fantastic off switch and is great in the house. I currently belong to the PNW navhda chapter in Washington, she did her NA test with them. But haven't been down due to covid. We are hoping to do our utility test this summer. If you are interested in Puddle pointers check out cedarwoods http://www.cedarwoodgundogs.com/ you will not be disappointed. but there is a newer breeder near Bellingham WA that has started with cedarwoods dogs. its a lot closer and he is a NAVHDA guy it called evergreen gun dogs https://www.evergreengundogs.com/

Bustercluck If you have any questions about pudlepointers let me know

Bubba

[jagen mit DDrs]

What always surprises me is that these breeders of German Versatile breeds don't test their dogs in the German system!I 've seen too many Navhda registered dogs with poor bites that are still allowed to breed in their system.I would stay away from Navhda or CKC/AKC dogs.

Rainer

[Blockcaver]

NAHVDA tests a dog's hunting and natural ability, not conformation to breed (or bite) standards as far as I know.

[jagen mit DDrs]

If a club can register a breed under their "banner",then they should be responsible for what they register.
My advice to people who are thinking of a German breed, buy from a breeder that tests their dogs under they German system.

Rainer

[Shashlik]

Hey did you end up finding your new dog? I have a litter of deutsch drahthaar pups available mid-end of August. Lmk if interested.

[huntingfamily]

Hey did you end up finding your new dog? I have a litter of deutsch drahthaar pups available mid-end of August. Lmk if interested.

Are both parents tested, breed-showed and certified to breed under the VDD system?
Test scores?
Xray results?
Breed show scores?

[Shashlik]

No, pups are not registered,should have mentioned earlier. My male came from Utah Vom Ridgeline Drahthaar and female came from Ukraine. I'm not willing to go through the process of registration, I just have couple hunting dogs that for myself that I'll breed ones in a while.

[huntingfamily]

No, pups are not registered,should have mentioned earlier. My male came from Utah Vom Ridgeline Drahthaar and female came from Ukraine. I'm not willing to go through the process of registration, I just have couple hunting dogs that for myself that I'll breed ones in a while.

Then these puppies are NOT DD's!

[Shashlik]

Not to be annoying, but that are they? I understand the importance of registration and testing but if one didn't go through the process and just bred two DD's what does that make new born pups then?

[Bustercluck]

I did find a dog. I have a red and white setter. I’ll try and keep up this post with the training. He’s very easy so far to catch on to commands. I just took some grouse feathers, tied them up with an elastic and scraped the grass in a fifteen foot line in a certain spot before we went for a walk and walked him by the spot. He picked up on the scent right away and followed the trail in both directions and picked up the bundle of feathers I left. He sits, he whoas, he’s starting to fetch.

The thing I’m wondering is if I should be training him to fetch and flush as the same thing or try and separate it. The plan is to get him to fetch amd whoa in the area where I think he should point and then when he has that down work on the flush command with a bumper or bird launcher.

[mastercaster]

I did find a dog. I have a red and white setter. I’ll try and keep up this post with the training. He’s very easy so far to catch on to commands. I just took some grouse feathers, tied them up with an elastic and scraped the grass in a fifteen foot line in a certain spot before we went for a walk and walked him by the spot. He picked up on the scent right away and followed the trail in both directions and picked up the bundle of feathers I left. He sits, he whoas, he’s starting to fetch.

The thing I’m wondering is if I should be training him to fetch and flush as the same thing or try and separate it. The plan is to get him to fetch amd whoa in the area where I think he should point and then when he has that down work on the flush command with a bumper or bird launcher.

A setter is a pointing breed so it's their instinct to point. It's not their instinct to fetch but chances are they will want to do it anyway because there's a good chance they enjoy it but if they don't you can still train the dog to retrieve either using positive reinforcement or by using the force fetching process. It's your choice. You can have a pointer who can retrieved well by using either method.

Just wondering why you would want your setter to break point and rush (flush) the bird? Generally hunters want their pointing bred dogs to be rock steady on point while you or a hunting partner flushes the bird. Ideally, the dog should be steady to wing and shot, as well, but whether you want your dog to do this is up to you. Some hunters don't care if their dog breaks after the flush or during the shot but those who hunt test their dogs sure do. It's the difference between having a starter dog or a fully finished one,,,,and there's a lot more of the former than the latter!

As far as how much time and work you want to invest in your dog it's pretty easy to get a pointer be steady on birds just with lots of exposure to them. They'll teach your dog. It's far more work to get the dog to be steady to wing (the flush) and even more work to have your dog be steady to shot but when they can do all three it sure looks nice, especially if you have also trained them to be a reliable retriever.

[jagen mit DDrs]

Not to be annoying, but that are they? I understand the importance of registration and testing but if one didn't go through the process and just bred two DD's what does that make new born pups then?

German wirehair pointers!
A DD is defined by a tested dog,if the parents are not Breed certified as in Breedtests,Breedshow,HN and checked for ED/OD through Germany then they are not considered DDs.Your pups will not get any papers,Ahnentafel or Abstammungsnachweis.
Not to be rude but you don't understand the importance of testing otherwise you would have contacted DD-WV Canada und gotten some help to test your dogs.With your dogs you don't know if there are any faults that could be passed on to the pups.I'm sure Roger won't be happy.

[Bustercluck]

A setter is a pointing breed so it's their instinct to point. It's not their instinct to fetch but chances are they will want to do it anyway because there's a good chance they enjoy it but if they don't you can still train the dog to retrieve either using positive reinforcement or by using the force fetching process. It's your choice. You can have a pointer who can retrieved well by using either method.

Just wondering why you would want your setter to break point and rush (flush) the bird? Generally hunters want their pointing bred dogs to be rock steady on point while you or a hunting partner flushes the bird. Ideally, the dog should be steady to wing and shot, as well, but whether you want your dog to do this is up to you. Some hunters don't care if their dog breaks after the flush or during the shot but those who hunt test their dogs sure do. It's the difference between having a starter dog or a fully finished one,,,,and there's a lot more of the former than the latter!

As far as how much time and work you want to invest in your dog it's pretty easy to get a pointer be steady on birds just with lots of exposure to them. They'll teach your dog. It's far more work to get the dog to be steady to wing (the flush) and even more work to have your dog be steady to shot but when they can do all three it sure looks nice, especially if you have also trained them to be a reliable retriever.
I thought the idea was to get the dog on point and stay on point while I get into position and then get the dog to flush the birds into flight so I can shoot them out of the air. I’d actually prefer to shoot them on the ground as there’s far less waste, but the hazard for the dog increases drastically. This is my first Pointer so I’m learning lots as I go and I suspect my expectations will be higher with the next one. The training should still be similar, but he definitely doesn’t do a natural point like some of the dogs you see on YouTube.

But yes, the plan is to get him on point and stay on point until he’s told to change.

[mastercaster]

I thought the idea was to get the dog on point and stay on point while I get into position and then get the dog to flush the birds into flight so I can shoot them out of the air. I’d actually prefer to shoot them on the ground as there’s far less waste, but the hazard for the dog increases drastically. This is my first Pointer so I’m learning lots as I go and I suspect my expectations will be higher with the next one. The training should still be similar, but he definitely doesn’t do a natural point like some of the dogs you see on YouTube.

But yes, the plan is to get him on point and stay on point until he’s told to change.

You getting into position should be you walking in from the side in front of the dog so you can flush the bird. You'll be ready to shoot because the dog has let it be known that there in a game bird within the scent cone. Depending on the direction of the wind the bird could be as close as 3 feet in front of the dog if she/he's upwind of the bird to as much as a 100 feet if the dog is down wind.

You could train your setter to break point and flush but chances are once the bird takes flight he/she will continue to chase unless you can train the dog to be steady after the flush but that may be very difficult for a first time trainer of a pointing bred dog. The only time I ever wanted my dog to break point was when they were on a bird in really nasty stuff (blackberry brambles, thick brush, etc.) that I didn't want to venture into ,,,,but it still took some coaxing on my part since it's the dog's instinct to hold steady.

[Bustercluck]

Here’s the little bugger…

https://images2.imgbox.com/6c/07/sCjpq32x_o.jpeg (https://imgbox.com/sCjpq32x)

[mastercaster]

^^^ ,,,,good lookin' pup! How old are they before they get the longer coat and feathers on the legs and tail, characteristic of a setter? Is he accustomed to gun shot (acceptance to loud noises) noises yet because that's something you can start on Day 1 of getting a bird dog puppy,,,,just have to make sure it's a progression.

[Bustercluck]

^^^ ,,,,good lookin' pup! How old are they before they get the longer coat and feathers on the legs and tail, characteristic of a setter? Is he accustomed to gun shot (acceptance to loud noises) noises yet because that's something you can start on Day 1 of getting a bird dog puppy,,,,just have to make sure it's a progression.
His coat has changed drastically since we got him. His head started out that dark liver colour and his body spots were more grey. Now his body is the same colour his head was and his head is lightening up. The long coat is one of the reasons I went with a setter, for the cold weather up here in the late season. I’m going to get him a vest and get him started on some snow boots ASAP.

We’re just sitting around that firepit and I’ve been firing a cap gun by him off and on.

He definitely has a short attention span. His training sessions don’t last more than a few minutes. The breeder warned me not to be too heavy handed with him or he’d clam up. He’s definitely driven by food and learns easy. Positive reinforcement works better than losing patience. I’ve had a couple instances where he wasn’t picking up on the training so I changed to something he knew, gave him a treat and called it a day.

I have a few frozen birds to get him going on, but I wanted to train him with a bumper before we move to birds. Is that a good plan? Or start dragging a chuckar around and getting him to look for it?

[mastercaster]

Teaching your dog to retrieve can/should be taught independently from teaching your pup bird hunting skills. They're two totally different skills that do not need to be combined until later in the pup's training. So, yes, you can do all your retrieving training by using a dummy/bumper first before adding a dead bird into the mix if you want.

The first thing you want to do in the retrieving process is to teach your pup to hold a dummy, bumper, or paint roller. Google it,,,lots of info both written and on Youtube will explain how to do it. Just make sure there are no other distractions for the pup so do it in the house, garage, or on a training table. Get you pup to master the "Hold" before you move onto the next step.

It would take a dozen paragraphs to go through the entire fetching/retrieving process so what I would suggest you do is to go on line to get the step by step process. It's there. There are some really good DVD sets available but they are on the pricey side, plus there's books on teaching a dog to retrieve, too, but you may as well try to find the information for free on the internet.

You already know not to rush the process. Take your time ,,,,you have enough of it to get your pup ready enough at some point this fall to retrieve grouse, etc. You'll find that teaching your pup to retrieve is a great bonding experience for the both of you.

[britman101]

For your dog's first year on birds, I would focus on getting him out in a field and see how he does. Be patient as this will be learning by trial and error for the young pup. If he bumps a bird instead of being on a steady point, feel free to put the dog back in place and encourage him to stay put with the whoa command. Unless the pup is a natural retriever, in my opinion I would hold off on the retrieving training. Getting that dog out in the field and excited to be on birds and listening to you should be the primary focus in his first year.

[Redthies]

Then these puppies are NOT DD's!

You do realize that Deutsch Drahtharr is just the German language version of German Wirehair right? So they are all DDs or GWPs. Just get a Weimaranar and be done with it….

[jagen mit DDrs]

You do realize that Deutsch Drahtharr is just the German language version of German Wirehair right? So they are all DDs or GWPs. Just get a Weimaranar and be done with it….

Seems like you don't know enough about DD vs GWP to have a conversation about this.
To try to educate somebody that trained and tested DDs in Canada,US and Germany about what is a DD,is pretty "ballsy".
By the way,most Weims in this country are not Hunting dogs any more.To sift through the shit that is produced,just to get a decent hunting dog in the Weims compared to what is produced as a standard within the DD world is not comparable.

Anybody that sells GWPs as DDs is setting themselves up for lawsuit since the name. Deutsch Drahthaar,is a Trademark registered name under Vdd.e.V .
Besides,he is starting out wrong to pump out pups by lying to the potential buyers of what the dogs are.

Rainer

[Redthies]

Seems like you don't know enough about DD vs GWP to have a conversation about this.
To try to educate somebody that trained and tested DDs in Canada,US and Germany about what is a DD,is pretty "ballsy".
By the way,most Weims in this country are not Hunting dogs any more.To sift through the shit that is produced,just to get a decent hunting dog in the Weims compared to what is produced as a standard within the DD world is not comparable.

Anybody that sells GWPs as DDs is setting themselves up for lawsuit since the name. Deutsch Drahthaar,is a Trademark registered name under Vdd.e.V .
Besides,he is starting out wrong to pump out pups by lying to the potential buyers of what the dogs are.

Rainer

No, seems like I succeeded in winding you up Rainer. I am German, and very familiar with the difference in standards between North American and Deutschland when it comes to many things, dogs included. I’m just a bit over all the pretentious talk by trainers and hunters. Train your dog to the best of your ability, and then shut up and go get some birds!

[jagen mit DDrs]

No, seems like I succeeded in winding you up Rainer. !

Yes,you succeeded!
I'm sick of people using dogs as a moneyprinting machine.Seems like every breed that comes over here gets screwed over by individuals that have no business breeding dogs.

Rainer

[rustybarrel]

I have had GW pointer and now have a Puddel pointer.I like both breeds as versatile hunters.The PP is awesome- my experience has been has been everything you read, and hear about them: calm inside house, hunting switch comes on outside, very smart( so was GW), will point, retrieve, mine loves duck hunting best,.I also take him deer hunting and he is very good at tracking scent.I find him more sensitive than my GW was-he doesn’t even like if I raise my voice…��. They do not shed, GW hairs do shed- if that matters. My GW was bit larger and stronger but was also a bit more hard headed when younger.They are both very robust in the field and are all-out hunters outside.Th biggest difference is how calm the PP is inside the house.Wife and kids love him.

[Shashlik]

Seems like you don't know enough about DD vs GWP to have a conversation about this.
To try to educate somebody that trained and tested DDs in Canada,US and Germany about what is a DD,is pretty "ballsy".
By the way,most Weims in this country are not Hunting dogs any more.To sift through the shit that is produced,just to get a decent hunting dog in the Weims compared to what is produced as a standard within the DD world is not comparable.

Anybody that sells GWPs as DDs is setting themselves up for lawsuit since the name. Deutsch Drahthaar,is a Trademark registered name under Vdd.e.V .
Besides,he is starting out wrong to pump out pups by lying to the potential buyers of what the dogs are.

Rainer
I wasn't lying of what my dogs are, in Europe you call drahthaar drahthaar whether dog is registered or not. Just because your dd dog isn't tested it doesn't turn him into german shepherd. I'm not denying the necessity of registration to preserve beed standard and produce quality I totally encourage registration and testing programs.
In my case I have puppies that are born of dd parents so I called them DDs cause thats what I'd have done back home. Please don't call me a liar before you understand my opinion on the matter.

[jagen mit DDrs]

Yes.your sire and dam are Drahthaars but your pups,since they can not be registered as deutsch drahthaars are GWPs.
I'm dealing with this on a regular basis,,,,people buy a dog thinking it is a DD but when they want to test in the VDD system are told that they bought a GWP.

You mentioned that you "encourage registration and testing"but why didn't you??
Buying a quality dog and then watering down the breed for profit is not what I would call conscientous breeding.

Rainer