Confiscated sheep in 2021

[twoSevenO]

Hearing of 7 Stones (so far) this year that were confiscated.
Anyone know what percentage that is? I have no idea how many get shot in a typical year. Or how many typically get confiscated.

Reasons range from too young and too short to not removing all edible portions.

Who has more info/data?

I don't hunt sheep, but I'm curious

[Bustercluck]

Do they check your meat when you bring your head in?

Whats the punishment for something like that? Shooting an illegal ram? Or not bringing all the meat out?

[twoSevenO]

You aren't required to bring meat in for inspection. My understanding fornthat case is the CO checked them on their way home from the mountains.

[Dirty]

All 7 guys used to hunt Spences Bridge many years ago.

[wiggy]

It’s legal boom. Trophy sheep. Is a dink sheep really a trophy? How many get shot and left ? Is sheep hunt actually a meat hunt? Is it all about drilling a ram or enjoying the experience and beauty of the place and being grateful to live in a place that we can do this. Look at a class IV ram. Look at a class III. Walking away from class III rams isn’t easy. But when you’ve seen class IVs it’s no problem. Interested to see how many of the harvest are which. One more year or two and a lot of those class III would become class IVs and there would more of them and then we wouldn’t be seeing this.

[twoSevenO]

Anyone who drives 18hrs, flies for 3 and hikes for 10 then tries to call it anything but a trophy hunt is full of shit. Nevermind international hunters who paid $60,000 for the privilege.

[mod7rem]

The “not enough meat” scenario concerns me. I’ve heard that CO’s will weigh the meat and expect to see a certain poundage. My Brother and I have killed quite a few sheep, and the amount of meat taken out can vary depending on how the shooting goes or other circumstances. It’s easy for shots to destroy half or more of a backstrap, neck or front/hind quarter. I wonder what a CO would do if there’s 10lbs less on the scale than they think there should be?
One year on a double, the meat from the first ram was lost to a grizzly. We do everything we can to prevent that from happening, but it’s a real risk. So that year we came out with two heads/capes and only one ram worth of meat. Did not get stopped, but when I tell people that experience, they give me a wink and a shit eating smirk like they know the “real” story. I wonder if a CO would automatically assume the same thing and treat you like crap? Ive also shot animals in an open season area but had to hike through LEH area to get there. I take a picture of the untouched animal with my GPS on it to show coordinates, but maybe that wouldn’t be good enough if a CO stopped me in the LEH area. I’ve never been stopped with any animal so just a concern for now.

[mod7rem]

Anyone who drives 18hrs, flies for 3 and hikes for 10 then tries to call it anything but a trophy hunt is full of shit. Nevermind international hunters who paid $60,000 for the privilege.

I agree and I own it all day long. Problem is, the term “trophy hunt” means something different for everyone and can be very misleading and dishonest.

[twoSevenO]

The “not enough meat” scenario concerns me. I’ve heard that CO’s will weigh the meat and expect to see a certain poundage. My Brother and I have killed quite a few sheep, and the amount of meat taken out can vary depending on how the shooting goes or other circumstances. It’s easy for shots to destroy half or more of a backstrap, neck or front/hind quarter. I wonder what a CO would do if there’s 10lbs less on the scale than they think there should be?
One year on a double, the meat from the first ram was lost to a grizzly. We do everything we can to prevent that from happening, but it’s a real risk. So that year we came out with two heads/capes and only one ram worth of meat. Did not get stopped, but when I tell people that experience, they give me a wink and a shit eating smirk like they know the “real” story. I wonder if a CO would automatically assume the same thing and treat you like crap? Ive also shot animals in an open season area but had to hike through LEH area to get there. I take a picture of the untouched animal with my GPS on it to show coordinates, but maybe that wouldn’t be good enough if a CO stopped me in the LEH area. I’ve never been stopped with any animal so just a concern for now.

Excellent point. Deer, goats, sheep .... all game comes in different body sizes. I can't see the scale method making much sense.

To be honest, I always assumed they lay the deboned meat out and try and guess which piece is which. Don't think that method would work out too well either though.

But it is concerning. Almost all deboned animals look miniscule in comparison to an intact carcass hanging on a hook and I can see any CO being able to get on your case over it.

I, too, take pics of the animal as well as deboned carcass, but have also never been stopped and inspected yet.

[mod7rem]

It’s legal boom. Trophy sheep. Is a dink sheep really a trophy? How many get shot and left ? Is sheep hunt actually a meat hunt? Is it all about drilling a ram or enjoying the experience and beauty of the place and being grateful to live in a place that we can do this. Look at a class IV ram. Look at a class III. Walking away from class III rams isn’t easy. But when you’ve seen class IVs it’s no problem. Interested to see how many of the harvest are which. One more year or two and a lot of those class III would become class IVs and there would more of them and then we wouldn’t be seeing this.


This is key and only comes with time and experience.

[mod7rem]

Excellent point. Deer, goats, sheep .... all game comes in different body sizes. I can't see the scale method making much sense.

To be honest, I always assumed they lay the deboned meat out and try and guess which piece is which. Don't think that method would work out too well either though.

But it is concerning. Almost all deboned animals look miniscule in comparison to an intact carcass hanging on a hook and I can see any CO being able to get on your case over it.

I, too, take pics of the animal as well as deboned carcass, but have also never been stopped and inspected yet.


Another example, all Stones, is the physically smallest ram we ever shot was a beat up 11yr old with a very small body. The biggest was a beast of an 8 year old that easily had 20lbs more deboned meat. Hopefully an experienced CO would understand these things.

[puddlejumper]

Hearing of 7 Stones (so far) this year that were confiscated.
Anyone know what percentage that is? I have no idea how many get shot in a typical year. Or how many typically get confiscated.

Reasons range from too young and too short to not removing all edible portions.

Who has more info/data?

I don't hunt sheep, but I'm curious

https://www.facebook.com/ConservationOfficerService/posts/6145321725509327

Its on the FB so must be true.

Since the beginning of the 2021 hunting season, Fort Nelson Conservation Officers have seized 7 Stone Sheep for violations under the Wildlife Act, including not meeting full curl/age requirements and failing to remove edible portions.

Assistant Guides and resident hunters are reminded not to use yearly horn growth annuli to determine the age of a ram in the field, as false annuli may be present #BCCOS (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/bccos?__eep__=6&__cft__[0]=AZWfjJRFxmD3mL4XzCRzSp4cQo4HHTw-053P9a07-U0MbTbSDgmnZFGZ9LHrDEzHrcSpLDtM4_285B7sNTAf1iVPoHo RsfnOEo0FZ6ShvwQmBUKhj5qx0FUTlXlYs1sA3tCScs7yjOe0b DLalb7UIc5s&__tn__=*NK-R) #FortNelson (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/fortnelson?__eep__=6&__cft__[0]=AZWfjJRFxmD3mL4XzCRzSp4cQo4HHTw-053P9a07-U0MbTbSDgmnZFGZ9LHrDEzHrcSpLDtM4_285B7sNTAf1iVPoHo RsfnOEo0FZ6ShvwQmBUKhj5qx0FUTlXlYs1sA3tCScs7yjOe0b DLalb7UIc5s&__tn__=*NK-R)

[steel_ram]

Your camera is your friend. If the meated is ruined and not worth recovery, take pictures to back your story. Got us out of a jam once.

[KodiakHntr]

Your camera is your friend. If the meated is ruined and not worth recovery, take pictures to back your story. Got us out of a jam once.

Yep, 20 extra pics of a carcass before you walk way adds zero pounds to your pack.
I take pics of rib cages and spines and pelvic girdles on every animal before I walk away, and absolutely take pics of meat rendered inedible by method of take.

[.330 Dakota]

The pics are a great idea for your protection, but its kinda sad that you have to do that. Seems like the CO service is setting themselves up as an ANTI type deal, and are out to get you in any way they can. If they were non partisan then it would be fair, and their inspection would be fair. I have no problem with a CO requiring a reasonable explanation, but getting all upity over 10-20lbs of meat when the explanation is reasonable is an issue for me. I shot a running goat one time with a 338, hit him tight on the shoulder bone, offside 1.4 was completely destroyed, so we hiked out with 3/4's. No CO, but after reading this thread, Im glad there wasnt any road stops,,jeepers

[Imdone]

Taking pics is a good defense. It's evidence.
Eat as much as you can in the back forty, lessons your pack going out too, plus is some of the best, most rewarding, delicious meat you've ever tasted. CO says ten pounds missing, C you in court then.
We had a Prick Trophy hunter nailed years and years ago. Ass wipe, took entire hide for a full mount, not an once of meat.
We took lots of pics, and sample in case of testing. Jack ass claimed entire meat was lost due to fall, lol evidence showed cape was in great condition, strange, pics showed minimal loss of meat in the neck area from the shot.
Guilty! Got him nailed!
Ass shouldn't be allowed to hunt that species again. If anything.
But no, lost his license for a year, 1700 in fines, lost his would be mount, but..... Had another LEH as soon as he qualified the next season. That's a Broken system in my opinion.

Be responsible, learn Full Curl, 8 year rule, don't shoot if border line, take or eat all portions.

TROPHY is a misguided term. From a Spike buck to a Record Ram. TROPHY is in the eye of the Beholder.

[bearvalley]

We can all blame the COS for being heavy handed but this entire harvest of illegal rams falls back on who pulled the trigger.
Covid put more BC resident sheep hunters on the mountain due to either more freed up time, the thought there’d be less competition from the outfitters or the fact that guys were sick of government Covid mandates and just wanted to get out.
Last years sheep harvest was right in the ball park of a normal season with very few rams taken by the guides due to closed Borders.
This year, starting a week before sheep season an army of sheep hunters headed in because they knew guides wouldn’t be there unless they’d booked a Canadian resident hunter for the sheep opener.
With the confiscated Stone Sheeo, I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time.
This number will grow, rams will get dumped now because guys will get nervous and there’s most likely more young, short sheep ditched on a mountain due to ground shrinkage.
Sheep regulations need to change, even if we don’t like it.
The change is for the good of sheep populations.
We can go on and on that the 8 year old full curl rule ensures that only a select number of mature rams are taken but that isn’t working real well in GOS areas that are in some instances probably looking at a 20% kill of immature rams.
Stone sheep aren’t white tails and a change is needed.
On the meat wastage, the majority of hunters do a first class job of bringing out meat but if you pay attention at any northern float base there’s always the ones that show up with a zip lock bag full of back straps along with the horns/antlers and the cape.
Sometimes there’s a legit answer such as poor shot placement or a grizzly moved in.
Then there’s the cold fact that manpower can only pack so much so far.
As others have said, in the case of shot up meat or meat spoiled by scavengers a camera is your friend.
Note the GPS coordinates as well in case you have to go back to the kill site with a CO to defend your case.
Groups such as the Wild Sheep Society of BC have put on numerous seminars on aging rams, lack of education isn’t the issue…..in my opinion.
The problem we are faced with is over competition for the sheep in the areas that are accessible by many of the fly in/walk in hunters.
Most of them can only go so far.

[boxhitch]

Doing okay this year M?

Numbers for several years were right around 100 for residents and 100 for non-residents, with 5 to 15 deemed illegal, from both parties
20% is sure getting up there, plausible I suppose

"I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time."
wow

[Islandeer]

Lose the term “Trophy” altogether, and replace it with : selective harvest :.

The whole Trophy thing plays right into the hands of the anti crowd.

Same for sport hunting, hunting is more so a traditional food gathering activity than some thing we do for ‘sport’.

[MikeSlayer]

It's really sad to hear that 7 sheep have been seized. As a new hunter, that harvested a stone on opening day, I would say that education on aging is not an issue. There are plenty of resources out there that can help educate people on what is legal. My partner and I spent days doing research on how age and what the legal requirements are. We joined WSSBC and participated in sheep counts to actually get eyes on a sheep prior to our hunt. As stated above, people that want to hunt sheep need to learn how to age appropriately and be absolutely clear that if they are not sure they should not shoot. That said there is no excuse for not taking out all usable meat, sheep meat is absolutely delicious.

I do think that there is an issue with over harvesting. I am not sure what the answer is but I have read that other areas allow hunters to only harvest one particular species per lifetime or have a cooling off period post harvest (several years) of sensitive species. I listened to a podcast of one famous hunter claiming to have taken 20+ dall sheep (personally and having guided more). I thought to myself that seem excessive. I also follow several outfits on Insta and gotta say the number of rams harvested this season, based on posted pics, seems insane. Having harvested a stone I don't think that I will take another. I would definitely go on another hunt to help out a friend but I will be looking at other animals for my own hunts. That just me and I am not one to impose my ethics on others...

[rageous]

Sad news indeed. I think many don’t take time required and don’t know what to look for.

My take is get your first legal ram, from there on hold out for a ram with more age.
While perfectly legal, personally I would not want a wall full of 8 year olds.

[boxhitch]

Lose the term “Trophy” altogether, and replace it with : selective harvest :.
The whole Trophy thing plays right into the hands of the anti crowd.
Same for sport hunting, hunting is more so a traditional food gathering activity than some thing we do for ‘sport’.Funny how things have changed
'Sport' is contrary to 'commercial' or 'professional', in all aspects of sporting activities, its the focus or optics that change the meaning, intentional or not.
'Trophy' is also maligned with intent, maybe it has to be substituted with 'hunt participation reminder' , don't want to blur things

[bearvalley]

Doing okay this year M?

Numbers for several years were right around 100 for residents and 100 for non-residents, with 5 to 15 deemed illegal, from both parties
20% is sure getting up there, plausible I suppose

"I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time."
wow

Doing good B.
Call a Region 6 or 7B CO…..or better yet our provincial sheep & goat guy.
There’s a problem at hand…..it’s fixable but it’ll take some brainstorming to come up with something that works for hunters and most importantly sheep.
Past harvest numbers mean bugger all….it’s what’s going on now that matters.
Do you know last years Stone harvest stats?
I’ll make you a bet it wasn’t 100 for the residents and 100 for non residents.

[boxhitch]

I do think that there is an issue with over harvesting. .What gives you that idea?

[boxhitch]

Do you know last years Stone harvest stats?
I’ll make you a bet it wasn’t 100 for the residents and 100 for non residents.No...
and I doubt this year will fit the norm either, bet there are more NR hunters than last year

[Bustercluck]

I have a question for you guys

Do you think harvesting all of the mature rams from every band is healthy for the sheep population? I don’t mean managing sheep numbers, but the overall health of the population when you take all of the experience out of the community. Or would it be better to manage through more of an leh type system where you can take any ram instead?

I hunt in Alberta, so there’s a lot more hunting pressure on a small area of hunting grounds. I’d be shocked if there’s more than a few full curl rams around at the end of hunting season in the accessible areas.

[mod7rem]

Sad news indeed. I think many don’t take time required and don’t know what to look for.

My take is get your first legal ram, from there on hold out for a ram with more age.
While perfectly legal, personally I would not want a wall full of 8 year olds.

How about a freezer with delicious sheep meat? If the management strategy is sustainable, why would it matter how many rams one individual kills and eats in his lifetime. We are talking about hunters that did not follow the current rules. Let’s not turn this into something it’s not.

[twoSevenO]

Doing okay this year M?

Numbers for several years were right around 100 for residents and 100 for non-residents, with 5 to 15 deemed illegal, from both parties
20% is sure getting up there, plausible I suppose

"I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time."
wow

Where did you get these numbers from? That number of illegal rams for non residents seems much too high, when you consider the fact that most (all?) non residents must be guided by a professional guide.

I think guides do a pretty good job of game identification.

[mod7rem]

It's really sad to hear that 7 sheep have been seized. As a new hunter, that harvested a stone on opening day, I would say that education on aging is not an issue. There are plenty of resources out there that can help educate people on what is legal. My partner and I spent days doing research on how age and what the legal requirements are. We joined WSSBC and participated in sheep counts to actually get eyes on a sheep prior to our hunt. As stated above, people that want to hunt sheep need to learn how to age appropriately and be absolutely clear that if they are not sure they should not shoot. That said there is no excuse for not taking out all usable meat, sheep meat is absolutely delicious.

I do think that there is an issue with over harvesting. I am not sure what the answer is but I have read that other areas allow hunters to only harvest one particular species per lifetime or have a cooling off period post harvest (several years) of sensitive species. I listened to a podcast of one famous hunter claiming to have taken 20+ dall sheep (personally and having guided more). I thought to myself that seem excessive. I also follow several outfits on Insta and gotta say the number of rams harvested this season, based on posted pics, seems insane. Having harvested a stone I don't think that I will take another. I would definitely go on another hunt to help out a friend but I will be looking at other animals for my own hunts. That just me and I am not one to impose my ethics on others...

Im curious why you think there’s a problem with over harvest? What is that based on?

Also Dall sheep numbers in North America are estimated to be something like 6x that of Stones sheep. Why would one Dall sheep hunters success be a factor? Some people have the will, ability and possibly live in a location that allows them to hunt every year. Why would those things have any factor on management?

One thing I notice when I talk with new sheep hunters is how much it bothers them when they realize that there are lots of people willing to work just as hard as they are and they’re disappointed by the competition. Suggesting a management strategy that puts a harvest limit on the individual hunter, is usually brought up as a theoretical way to make it easier to get a mature ram. Mature rams are a small part of a sheep population. It also adds to the idea that sheep hunting meets all the negative things seen as “trophy hunting”.

[rageous]

How about a freezer with delicious sheep meat? If the management strategy is sustainable, why would it matter how many rams one individual kills and eats in his lifetime. We are talking about hunters that did not follow the current rules. Let’s not turn this into something it’s not.

Stone sheep meat is delicious. Do you have a rather small freezer Mod7rem? It clearly may not matter to “certain individuals”. Do you see any difference between a hunter and poacher btw?

[mod7rem]

Stone sheep meat is delicious. Do you have a rather small freezer Mod7rem? It clearly may not matter to “certain individuals”. Do you see any difference between a hunter and poacher btw?

Not sure what you mean by any of these questions. This thread isn't just about poachers, it’s about sheep hunters that had their rams confiscated for various reasons. Intent is important. If someone intends to break the rules, then yes I consider them a poacher. Sometimes things happen that are out of someone’s control and may put them on the wrong side of the rules. That doesn’t make them a poacher. That would cheapen the meaning of the word.
What we always get with this topic is people’s idea of what they think is “ethical” when it comes to sheep hunting. I’m reading that you think more than one 8 year old ram on the wall would be unethical for you. I asked if there’s anything wrong with putting an 8 year old ram in the freezer every year. You imply that a rams value is whether it’s worthy of “the wall” or not and it plays right into the trophy hunt narrative. Not all rams go on a wall.

[Cub Driver]

A couple of sheep were seized due to poaching.

https://energeticcity.ca/2021/08/18/bc-highway-patrol-issued-75-violation-tickets-during-three-day-patrol/

[Imdone]

Im curious why you think there’s a problem with over harvest? What is that based on?

Also Dall sheep numbers in North America are estimated to be something like 6x that of Stones sheep. Why would one Dall sheep hunters success be a factor? Some people have the will, ability and possibly live in a location that allows them to hunt every year. Why would those things have any factor on management?

One thing I notice when I talk with new sheep hunters is how much it bothers them when they realize that there are lots of people willing to work just as hard as they are and they’re disappointed by the competition. Suggesting a management strategy that puts a harvest limit on the individual hunter, is usually brought up as a theoretical way to make it easier to get a mature ram. Mature rams are a small part of a sheep population. It also adds to the idea that sheep hunting meets all the negative things seen as “trophy hunting”.


Well said above.

You hear some say they are a once in lifetime. A hunter shouldn't take more than that.

First off, Stones and Dalls when managed properly they are very sustainable, with huntable populations.

If I lived in Ft.Nelson, John, any where up there, I'd have one heck of a lot more Ram hunts in my memory bank then I do. And I cherish them all. That said I live way closer to MD, WT, Elk and Moose and Goat, these make up most of my harvests. Over 50 years of them, and yes I might have 20 Rams on the wall, over the years, but realistically have not harmed the sustainability of the animals.

I will say one thing I've busted my arse for a very long time and appreciate every TROPHY as some call it, Spike bucks to FCurl Rams. They are all my trophies and ALL delicious .

If you can't pack it all out, don't pull the trigger.

[twoSevenO]

Well said above.

You hear some say they are a once in lifetime. A hunter shouldn't take more than that.

First off, Stones and Dalls when managed properly they are very sustainable, with huntable populations.

If I lived in Ft.Nelson, John, any where up there, I'd have one heck of a lot more Ram hunts in my memory bank then I do. And I cherish them all. That said I live way closer to MD, WT, Elk and Moose and Goat, these make up most of my harvests. Over 50 years of them, and yes I might have 20 Rams on the wall, over the years, but realistically have not harmed the sustainability of the animals.

I will say one thing I've busted my arse for a very long time and appreciate every TROPHY as some call it, Spike bucks to FCurl Rams. They are all my trophies and ALL delicious .

If you can't pack it all out, don't pull the trigger.

TWENTY rams?!? You gotta share some pics!! That's a seriously impressive number.
I dont think i've ever seen a pic on this site of more than, maybe, 6 rams in one's "trophy room".

[Imdone]

270 ......

Holy crap I wish lol the word MIGHT is in there ......

My point is if a hunter has harvested even dozens of one species or another, and is following regulations, and not affecting sustainability, why limit a hunter to one in a lifetime? That could work well for MD WT Deer Elk and Moose. One Pheasant, one Quail, where's that regulation get you. If your not affecting sustainability.

[ryanb]

Lazy ignorant hunters shoot illegal animals all the time, whether it's the wrong species, not enough points, too many points... Whatever. I'm not sure why anyone would think the same wouldn't be true of sheep.

I've both seen and heard of it happening lots. 'I've climbed this mountain and damnit I'm going to shoot"something" '

[boxhitch]

The mountains have eyes


A couple of sheep were seized due to poaching.

https://energeticcity.ca/2021/08/18/bc-highway-patrol-issued-75-violation-tickets-during-three-day-patrol/"Officers also stopped a group of hunters and discovered two sheep heads and hides in their possession. The group was determined to have been poaching and were witnessed discarding the meat. "

[boxhitch]

Where did you get these numbers from? That number of illegal rams for non residents seems much too high, when you consider the fact that most (all?) non residents must be guided by a professional guide.

I think guides do a pretty good job of game identification.total, for nrh and rh
you're right guides do a great job, they have far more to loose if they don't get it right

[twoSevenO]

270 ......

Holy crap I wish lol the word MIGHT is in there ......

My point is if a hunter has harvested even dozens of one species or another, and is following regulations, and not affecting sustainability, why limit a hunter to one in a lifetime? That could work well for MD WT Deer Elk and Moose. One Pheasant, one Quail, where's that regulation get you. If your not affecting sustainability.

Oh you were speaking hypothetically. Haha. My bad I'm a little slow today :)

[LBM]

We can all blame the COS for being heavy handed but this entire harvest of illegal rams falls back on who pulled the trigger.
Covid put more BC resident sheep hunters on the mountain due to either more freed up time, the thought there’d be less competition from the outfitters or the fact that guys were sick of government Covid mandates and just wanted to get out.
Last years sheep harvest was right in the ball park of a normal season with very few rams taken by the guides due to closed Borders.
This year, starting a week before sheep season an army of sheep hunters headed in because they knew guides wouldn’t be there unless they’d booked a Canadian resident hunter for the sheep opener.
With the confiscated Stone Sheeo, I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time.
This number will grow, rams will get dumped now because guys will get nervous and there’s most likely more young, short sheep ditched on a mountain due to ground shrinkage.
Sheep regulations need to change, even if we don’t like it.
The change is for the good of sheep populations.
We can go on and on that the 8 year old full curl rule ensures that only a select number of mature rams are taken but that isn’t working real well in GOS areas that are in some instances probably looking at a 20% kill of immature rams.
Stone sheep aren’t white tails and a change is needed.
On the meat wastage, the majority of hunters do a first class job of bringing out meat but if you pay attention at any northern float base there’s always the ones that show up with a zip lock bag full of back straps along with the horns/antlers and the cape.
Sometimes there’s a legit answer such as poor shot placement or a grizzly moved in.
Then there’s the cold fact that manpower can only pack so much so far.
As others have said, in the case of shot up meat or meat spoiled by scavengers a camera is your friend.
Note the GPS coordinates as well in case you have to go back to the kill site with a CO to defend your case.
Groups such as the Wild Sheep Society of BC have put on numerous seminars on aging rams, lack of education isn’t the issue…..in my opinion.
The problem we are faced with is over competition for the sheep in the areas that are accessible by many of the fly in/walk in hunters.
Most of them can only go so far.

This has nothing to do with covid, people have been shooting short or under age sheep for ever. No of both guide/outfitters doing it and residents, even watched
a guy shoot a ram that was hunting with a ewe leh tag. Heck no one guy that has shot 2 short sheep, its a humans need to kill something problem and no
real consequence if they do. Use to be the 8 year rule in the EK as well but it was taken away to many saying i thought it was 8, but short sheep are still
being shot with the full curl rule.
And you guys do realize the number is higher then 7 sheep can be inspected in any region.

[bearvalley]

This has nothing to do with covid, people have been shooting short or under age sheep for ever. No of both guide/outfitters doing it and residents, even watched
a guy shoot a ram that was hunting with a ewe leh tag. Heck no one guy that has shot 2 short sheep, its a humans need to kill something problem and no
real consequence if they do. Use to be the 8 year rule in the EK as well but it was taken away to many saying i thought it was 8, but short sheep are still
being shot with the full curl rule.
And you guys do realize the number is higher then 7 sheep can be inspected in any region.

Agreed’ the 7 number only came out of 7B and it’ll only grow when all CI’s are tallied.
And yeah, whether it was Covid or itchy feet from boredom more BC resident hunters have hit the northern sheep mountains the last 2 seasons……..not that I blame them.
I beleive current harvest stats will back that up.

[wiggy]

Change the punishment. Underaged or under length ram. 10 k and 5 years no sheep hunting It has to stop. We’re only killing our future. At this rate we’re looking at provincial wide leh. For a outfitter to get a ram confiscated is totally different. 100 k and that tag is no longer theirs. It’s not hard to tell when your looking at a big ram that he’s big. Oh he’s close. Joke definitely not a trophy sheep hunter and shouldn’t be hunting them in the first place

[Redthies]

I think many don’t take time required and don’t know what to look for.

I for one won’t shoot a sheep as I am not confident in aging one.

On another note, Rageous- could you respond to PMs on you for sale postings? I’ve sent you two over the past 2 months... if it’s sold, post it or let buyers know please!

[Mudsey]

Sheep are special. I have no problem with any hunter harvesting his limit but make sure what you're shooting is legal, if it's broomed and you want to count annuli make sure you see 10 to account for false annuli. Personally my sheep hunting partner and myself in our now retired sheep careers each took the 1st legal ram we were able to and after that passed up numerous legal rams and only took rams that were better than we already had. Between the 2 of us we never took more than one ram on a trip so we could legitimately bring out all the meat.

[Darksith]

Change the punishment. Underaged or under length ram. 10 k and 5 years no sheep hunting It has to stop. We’re only killing our future. At this rate we’re looking at provincial wide leh. For a outfitter to get a ram confiscated is totally different. 100 k and that tag is no longer theirs. It’s not hard to tell when your looking at a big ram that he’s big. Oh he’s close. Joke definitely not a trophy sheep hunter and shouldn’t be hunting them in the first place
that will only have more people ground check and walk away from a dead sheep. Its a lack of education, the hunters need to start being more responsible. Maybe you need to show that you've watched an educational video prior to buying a sheep tag for the first time...understanding how to age a sheep properly and understanding the negative impact harvesting immature rams can have on the population

[KodiakHntr]

I don’t really think the “ground check and walk away” happens as much as guys who aren’t sheep hunters think. It only takes once or twice spotting someone where you think you are the only person for miles to make a guy realize that there are a lot of eyes out there and the country is wide open.
But maybe I’m wrong there. Personally though, I don’t think it happens.

[Danny_29]

Well if there was a 10k fine like mentioned above I can't see anyone packing out the evidence.

I think a rule in place where you can only shoot one sheep every two years would help...makes people hold out for bigger rams hopefully. Or get rid of the 8 year old rule and add a 3/4 leh along with general full curl.

[Imdone]

This is not a sustainability issue, this is an issue of uneducated or misunderstood Regulation, combined with a entitled to quick to judge response and shooting an underaged, short of FCurl Ram.

If in question, DONT SHOOT ! Wait for a Full Curl and be responsible enough to be POSITIVE it goes past the nose on Stones.

[KodiakHntr]

There already is a 1 Ram every 3 years if harvested over full Curl, but not 8 years of age.

This is not a sustainability issue, this is an issue of uneducated or misunderstood Regulation, combined with a entitled to quick to judge response and shooting an underaged, short of FCurl Ram.

If in question, DONT SHOOT ! Wait for a Full Curl and be responsible enough to be POSITIVE it goes past the nose on Stones.

I’m reasonably certain you are incorrect there about 1 per 3 years…. Or at the very least, there isn’t with thinhorns.

[boxhitch]

There already is a 1 Ram every 3 years if harvested over full Curl, but not 8 years of age.

This is not a sustainability issue, this is an issue of uneducated or misunderstood Regulation, ............agreed, by example ;). There is no such restriction on sheep in BC

[horshur]

It will be because of recruitment...meaning inexperienced. Probably a good sign sorta .. It is the cost of a generational shift. What you all were wanting.....just you can't have your cake and eat it too...

[horshur]

They are getting experience!!

[twoSevenO]

Harsher penalties could also mean less rams being carried out and more being left dead on the mountain. And that ain't good either.

To be perfectly honest, I think the current ways to educate yourself are a bit crappy. I haven't found a good resource that shows how to properly age a ram.the examples they often use are a bit too obvious. I just don't see that any resource out there that shows how to properly ID false rings and discredit them.

If someone has a good resource for that, I'd love to take a look.

It takes a lot of experience to do this especially in the field, on a moving ram, while looking through a spotter with mirage from the heat making everything dance in the picture. It's tough, and it would be interesting how many of these 7 rams were shot by guys shooting their first ram. Probably a majority.

That said, plenty of guys shoot legal rams first time around. Social media is definitely a huge factor. Just too much pressure to deliver some content to your "followers". Everyone on Instagram wants to be a sheep hunter. Even people who can't hunt other critters worth a damn, let alone sheep.

*roll eyes*

I would be in favor of a regulation change and vote for it if given a chance.

[LBM]

Harsher penalties could also mean less rams being carried out and more being left dead on the mountain. And that ain't good either.

To be perfectly honest, I think the current ways to educate yourself are a bit crappy. I haven't found a good resource that shows how to properly age a ram.the examples they often use are a bit too obvious. I just don't see that any resource out there that shows how to properly ID false rings and discredit them.

If someone has a good resource for that, I'd love to take a look.

It takes a lot of experience to do this especially in the field, on a moving ram, while looking through a spotter with mirage from the heat making everything dance in the picture. It's tough, and it would be interesting how many of these 7 rams were shot by guys shooting their first ram. Probably a majority.

That said, plenty of guys shoot legal rams first time around. Social media is definitely a huge factor. Just too much pressure to deliver some content to your "followers". Everyone on Instagram wants to be a sheep hunter. Even people who can't hunt other critters worth a damn, let alone sheep.

*roll eyes*

I would be in favor of a regulation change and vote for it if given a chance.

In your first post you say you dont hunt sheep.

[LBM]

They are getting experience!!

ya at the wildlifes expense is that what hunting is all about the wildlife is just out there to practice and learn on. I guess
that explains all the dead stuff found out there. Lots of the illegal sheep shot are not by first timers.

[Imdone]

I’m reasonably certain you are incorrect there about 1 per 3 years…. Or at the very least, there isn’t with thinhorns.

Holy , dating myself, you are correct Sir. Thanks for the point.

[twoSevenO]

In your first post you say you dont hunt sheep.

I don't. What is your point?

[Brez]

Absolutely nothing wrong with trophy hunting. Just pack out the meat. In reality, (and in the eyes of biologists and informed peoples) dead is dead and one critter or another will benefit from the carcass.

I agree and I own it all day long. Problem is, the term “trophy hunt” means something different for everyone and can be very misleading and dishonest.

[LBM]

I don't. What is your point?

Just find it strange you want reg changes etc yet dont hunt them. cant find any place to really educate your self, start with the regs it even says dont use age/annuli in the field to determine if legal.
For some reason sheep are but on a pedistal which would make one think people would respect them more and make sure there legal but no seems more concerned about having to kill one.
No different really then the 5 point bulls and smaller shot in 6 point season or 3 point and smaller bucks shot in 4 point season or even mulie does shot in whitetail season people just
need to kill some thing.

[LBM]

Absolutely nothing wrong with trophy hunting. Just pack out the meat. In reality, (and in the eyes of biologists and informed peoples) dead is dead and one critter or another will benefit from the carcass.
yes the meat law was just put in there to apease others.

[twoSevenO]

Just find it strange you want reg changes etc yet dont hunt them. cant find any place to really educate your self, start with the regs it even says dont use age/annuli in the field to determine if legal.
For some reason sheep are but on a pedistal which would make one think people would respect them more and make sure there legal but no seems more concerned about having to kill one.
No different really then the 5 point bulls and smaller shot in 6 point season or 3 point and smaller bucks shot in 4 point season or even mulie does shot in whitetail season people just
need to kill some thing.

Well, maybe I want to get into hunting them one day. Besides, a guy can educate himself on something regardless of his involvement in it.

Though with the state of things as they are, and the entire sheep hunting season seeming like one giant rat Race, I probably won't ever get into it.

All that gas money and effort just to run into a bunch of other instagrammers on the mountain doesn't sound appealing at all

[upperleftcoaster]

Montana has a “bear identification” course you have to pass before you can punch your tag. https://fwp.mt.gov/hunt/education/bear-identification

I would support something like that for sheep in BC

i would also be curious on the breakdown of these confiscations, and it would be interesting for a biologist to point out some features that made it illegal, especially if it looks close.

[boxhitch]

Pretty simple really, the CI is looking at either not full curl or not enough rings to count 8
a confiscation at inspection may only be temporary, if the inspector has a problem making a determination he calls on the regional manager to make a call, that can take time.

other confiscations up the road somewhere could be for a whole list of infractions

[Tuffcity]

Maybe its time to dump the "or 8 years old" rule and leave it at full curl. Sure a couple of broken horn old rams will die of old age on the mountain but really, it would probably reduce legal harvest by what? maybe 15-20% if that?

Sadly there also seems to be a growing sentiment of entitled to attitude. The "I spent X thousand of dollars on gear, gas and other stuff and I'm owed a sheep". You're not owed anything. Your hunt shouldn't be viewed a failure I you come home light.

When I started sheep hunting 1987 the tongue in cheek adage was the ram you kill was born the first year you start sheep hunting. Silly slogan, but it supported more of an outlook to sheep hunting versus a truism.

[Brez]

Well said.
Just find it strange you want reg changes etc yet dont hunt them. cant find any place to really educate your self, start with the regs it even says dont use age/annuli in the field to determine if legal.
For some reason sheep are but on a pedistal which would make one think people would respect them more and make sure there legal but no seems more concerned about having to kill one.
No different really then the 5 point bulls and smaller shot in 6 point season or 3 point and smaller bucks shot in 4 point season or even mulie does shot in whitetail season people just
need to kill some thing.

[horshur]

ya at the wildlifes expense is that what hunting is all about the wildlife is just out there to practice and learn on. I guess
that explains all the dead stuff found out there. Lots of the illegal sheep shot are not by first timers.

Like I said before..those who throw stones tend to live in glass houses...

[AllDay]

I have hunted sheep for 4 years and watch tons of videos, read, and study how to age them every year and still feel like I hardly no anything about them. Judging them can be difficult even if they are over the bridge of the nose, at least for me. I take videos of them with a phoneskope-like device and review the video a million times and can catch myself questioning even rams that are beyond full curl. One second they look like they are easily above the bridge of the nose, then they turn their heads at a certain angle that makes me question it, then the thermals come into play and make it hard to see, then the next angle it looks like its a no-brainer. Maybe its just all the fear I have of shooting an illegal ram, but without having a mentor/coach with lots of experience who can help you make sense of it all, it can be very difficult, at least in my experience. Ideally I think sheep hunting would build a stronger community if those with experience took newer sheep hunters out and taught them what to look for, but I know that is not realistic.

[ElectricDyck]

People just need to be ok with walking away, its greed and selfishness, it's the same with all hunting, you cant put the bullet back in the gun...sheep hunting has been built into another level of achievement because of a legal sheeps scarcity, guys want that social media badge of honor.

[j270wsm]

sheep are but on a pedistal which would make one think people would respect them more and make sure there legal but no seems more concerned about having to kill one..

because people have put sheep on a pedistal, some feel that killing a ram makes them special almost god like in the eyes of their followers.

[Linksman313]

Montana has a “bear identification” course you have to pass before you can punch your tag. https://fwp.mt.gov/hunt/education/bear-identification

I would support something like that for sheep in BC

i would also be curious on the breakdown of these confiscations, and it would be interesting for a biologist to point out some features that made it illegal, especially if it looks close.

Me too, seems a little suspicious and the story seems incomplete

[twoSevenO]

People just need to be ok with walking away, its greed and selfishness, it's the same with all hunting, you cant put the bullet back in the gun...sheep hunting has been built into another level of achievement because of a legal sheeps scarcity, guys want that social media badge of honor.

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

[358mag]

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

Please define a " Trophy Mule Deer or Ram " . :roll:

[LBM]

Please define a " Trophy Mule Deer or Ram " . :roll:

Yes to bad people keep labeling hunting and different species.

[twoSevenO]

Please define a " Trophy Mule Deer or Ram " . :roll:

In response to the "legal sheeps scarcity" comment .... I don't think legal stones are that scarce at all. I think its way easier to find a legal ram than a 170"+ mule deer.

[REMINGTON JIM]

In response to the "legal sheeps scarcity" comment .... I don't think legal stones are that scarce at all. I think its way easier to find a legal ram than a 170"+ mule deer.

The problem with your thought is legal Ram vs 170” Deer that’s not a viable comparison - should just be a legal 4 pt deer vs legal stone sheep or bc record book min measurement such as 175 “ mule deer and 160 “ stone sheep pretty hard to judge inches in the field ! There both getting harder to FIND ! ;-) RJ

[358mag]

the problem with your thought is legal ram vs 170” deer that’s not a viable comparison - should just be a legal 4 pt deer vs legal stone sheep or bc record book min measurement such as 175 “ mule deer and 160 “ stone sheep pretty hard to judge inches in the field ! There both getting harder to find ! ;-) rj

^^^^x2^^^^^^

[twoSevenO]

The problem with your thought is legal Ram vs 170” Deer that’s not a viable comparison - should just be a legal 4 pt deer vs legal stone sheep or bc record book min measurement such as 175 “ mule deer and 160 “ stone sheep pretty hard to judge inches in the field ! There both getting harder to FIND ! ;-) RJ

My point being, in regards to the social media badge of honor and legal rams .... and getting a barely legal ram seems to grant one a badge of honor faster these days than a 170" muley does. Even though the muley is way harder to get than a barely legal ram.

It's all driven by the social media out of the USA. Instagram is chock full of trophy mule deer for them. But they don't have stone sheep. So getting one, even barely legal one, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Unfortunately, social media isn't just about sharing your hunting pics and stories. Everyone wants to be a "sponsored athlete" and a videographer and a Podcaster and whatever else. So people put more pressure on themselves to deliver and do riskier and dumber things in the field. I have no doubt this has become a part of it.

[ElectricDyck]

My point being, in regards to the social media badge of honor and legal rams .... and getting a barely legal ram seems to grant one a badge of honor faster these days than a 170" muley does. Even though the muley is way harder to get than a barely legal ram.

It's all driven by the social media out of the USA. Instagram is chock full of trophy mule deer for them. But they don't have stone sheep. So getting one, even barely legal one, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Unfortunately, social media isn't just about sharing your hunting pics and stories. Everyone wants to be a "sponsored athlete" and a videographer and a Podcaster and whatever else. So people put more pressure on themselves to deliver and do riskier and dumber things in the field. I have no doubt this has become a part of it.


That makes sense to me...

[whitlers]

My point being, in regards to the social media badge of honor and legal rams .... and getting a barely legal ram seems to grant one a badge of honor faster these days than a 170" muley does. Even though the muley is way harder to get than a barely legal ram.

It's all driven by the social media out of the USA. Instagram is chock full of trophy mule deer for them. But they don't have stone sheep. So getting one, even barely legal one, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Unfortunately, social media isn't just about sharing your hunting pics and stories. Everyone wants to be a "sponsored athlete" and a videographer and a Podcaster and whatever else. So people put more pressure on themselves to deliver and do riskier and dumber things in the field. I have no doubt this has become a part of it.

The man does make a valid point. One that I tent to agree with. Hunting has become a 'fad' these days.

[LBM]

My point being, in regards to the social media badge of honor and legal rams .... and getting a barely legal ram seems to grant one a badge of honor faster these days than a 170" muley does. Even though the muley is way harder to get than a barely legal ram.

It's all driven by the social media out of the USA. Instagram is chock full of trophy mule deer for them. But they don't have stone sheep. So getting one, even barely legal one, is a hell of an accomplishment.

Unfortunately, social media isn't just about sharing your hunting pics and stories. Everyone wants to be a "sponsored athlete" and a videographer and a Podcaster and whatever else. So people put more pressure on themselves to deliver and do riskier and dumber things in the field. I have no doubt this has become a part of it.

But it does get them caught doing the wrong thing at times as well.

[porthunter]

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

Depends... are we talking thinhorns or bighorns? I'd say its still tougher to kill a bighorn than a trophy muley. Although it would depend on your definition of trophy... I'd say there's more 170+ muleys taken than GOS bighorns per year, I could be wrong.

[JAGRMEISTER]

Your head is too far up your ass to understand!

[Ride Red]

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

You’ve obviously never hunted sheep before.

[Ambush]

Your head is too far up your ass to understand!



How does this comment enhance the discussion or profit anyone reading it?

[MattB]

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

I would agree with this. I have multiple large mule deer - all of them were tougher to get than any of my rams (42" stone, 41 7/8" dall, and another high 160's stone - i think he was 38 and change). I have also passed up legal bighorns. Sheep are easier because of the country they live in - alot of it is glassable and typically sheep hunting turns into a waiting game of glassing known sheep locations. Mule deer turns into alot of timber hunting with close range shots (i've taken quite a few over 170" with some over 200" - the mule deer are tougher especially when it comes to the mental aspect of hunting).

[twoSevenO]

Depends... are we talking thinhorns or bighorns? I'd say its still tougher to kill a bighorn than a trophy muley. Although it would depend on your definition of trophy... I'd say there's more 170+ muleys taken than GOS bighorns per year, I could be wrong.

You're probably right, but there are a lot more people hunting for muleys than GOS bighorns. Nonetheless, i would still say GOS bighorns are one of the hardest hunts in the province.

I was originally referring to thinhorns.

[twoSevenO]

You’ve obviously never hunted sheep before.

How many guys go after thinhorns and are successful on their first try? Lots.

How many guys go muley hunting and come home with a 170+ buck on their first trip? I don't know many. Do you?

[bownut]

Wow did this take a turn!
When the rules state a ram must be 8 years old or full curl and guys screw up, that's the problem

[mod7rem]

Had an interesting chat with a bio today during a CI. Said the sheep confiscations have been increasing but also says that the demographic/personalities of sheep hunters seems to be changing more than any other hunting group. Sheep hunting has become the new “extreme sport” to conquer. Said that even the guide outfitters they talk to are seeing a big change in their sheep hunting clientele. In the past clients booked a trip and we’re happy to tag a sheep then hang out and enjoy the rest of the trip doing whatever. Now it’s pressure to get in, get one, then get out and move on to the next hunt somewhere else. Said lots of inexperience and the allure of long range shooting seems to be the new trend seen in sheep hunting.
I forgot to ask if the numbers of young or short rams being killed is the only concern, or if the numbers of mature rams being killed is also going up.

[LBM]

Had an interesting chat with a bio today during a CI. Said the sheep confiscations have been increasing but also says that the demographic/personalities of sheep hunters seems to be changing more than any other hunting group. Sheep hunting has become the new “extreme sport” to conquer. Said that even the guide outfitters they talk to are seeing a big change in their sheep hunting clientele. In the past clients booked a trip and we’re happy to tag a sheep then hang out and enjoy the rest of the trip doing whatever. Now it’s pressure to get in, get one, then get out and move on to the next hunt somewhere else. Said lots of inexperience and the allure of long range shooting seems to be the new trend seen in sheep hunting.
I forgot to ask if the numbers of young or short rams being killed is the only concern, or if the numbers of mature rams being killed is also going up.


Yes things have sure changed or so it seems.
So what were you getting CIed you had a successful trip.

[Ride Red]

How many guys go after thinhorns and are successful on their first try? Lots.

How many guys go muley hunting and come home with a 170+ buck on their first trip? I don't know many. Do you?

I know and have met many guys who haven’t tagged a sheep yet, but lots of large bucks have been taken.

[Ride Red]

Had an interesting chat with a bio today during a CI. Said the sheep confiscations have been increasing but also says that the demographic/personalities of sheep hunters seems to be changing more than any other hunting group. Sheep hunting has become the new “extreme sport” to conquer. Said that even the guide outfitters they talk to are seeing a big change in their sheep hunting clientele. In the past clients booked a trip and we’re happy to tag a sheep then hang out and enjoy the rest of the trip doing whatever. Now it’s pressure to get in, get one, then get out and move on to the next hunt somewhere else. Said lots of inexperience and the allure of long range shooting seems to be the new trend seen in sheep hunting.
I forgot to ask if the numbers of young or short rams being killed is the only concern, or if the numbers of mature rams being killed is also going up.

We’ve met hunters that just started their hunt and they already have it set out for what’s next on the list. Some don’t appreciate the splendor around them, just the challenge/task at hand. I’ve had many incredible trips over the years where we’ve seen some incredible events just relaxing and taking it all in.

[Mudsey]

How'd we go from illegal sheep being harvested to comparing taking a legal stone sheep to a trophy muley. This thread has lost it's way and should be closed. Don't shoot a sheep if you're unsure if it's full curl...end of story.

[Ride Red]

How'd we go from illegal sheep being harvested to comparing taking a legal stone sheep to a trophy muley. This thread has lost it's way and should be closed. Don't shoot a sheep if you're unsure if it's full curl...end of story.

At least it wasn’t covid :)

[twoSevenO]

I know and have met many guys who haven’t tagged a sheep yet, but lots of large bucks have been taken.

That's not what I said.

I said, how many do you know that go and get a sheep vs 170+ muley on their VERY FIRST trip?

Big difference between the two. More people live near mule deer country than sheep country. So they get out more so they kill more.

MattB nailed it in his last post and he knows what he is talking about!

[Ride Red]

It's harder to shoot a trophy mule deer nowadays than it is to shoot a ram.

Here’s your original question. And your still wrong.

[twoSevenO]

Here’s your original question. And your still wrong.

Mmmm hmmmm ok

[twoSevenO]

Had an interesting chat with a bio today during a CI. Said the sheep confiscations have been increasing but also says that the demographic/personalities of sheep hunters seems to be changing more than any other hunting group. Sheep hunting has become the new “extreme sport” to conquer. Said that even the guide outfitters they talk to are seeing a big change in their sheep hunting clientele. In the past clients booked a trip and we’re happy to tag a sheep then hang out and enjoy the rest of the trip doing whatever. Now it’s pressure to get in, get one, then get out and move on to the next hunt somewhere else. Said lots of inexperience and the allure of long range shooting seems to be the new trend seen in sheep hunting.
I forgot to ask if the numbers of young or short rams being killed is the only concern, or if the numbers of mature rams being killed is also going up.

Absolutely true. It's a form of "extreme sport" nowadays for sure and most call themselves "mountain athletes" or something of the sort. Instagram is full of personalities who don't seem to have a "normal" job and make a living going on hunts. And all the other guys want to be like them.

[mod7rem]

Yes things have sure changed or so it seems.
So what were you getting CIed you had a successful trip.

Yes we had some success. No success on sheep this year but I did take a caribou with one of my sons on a different trip. Did the CI on Friday.

[358mag]

Absolutely true. It's a form of "extreme sport" nowadays for sure and most call themselves "mountain athletes" or something of the sort. Instagram is full of personalities who don't seem to have a "normal" job and make a living going on hunts. And all the other guys want to be like them.

A few of the " guys" use to post on HBC ..... want to be Rock Stars

[bearvalley]

A few of the " guys" use to post on HBC ..... want to be Rock Stars

Popcorn time………

[REMINGTON JIM]

Popcorn time………

Yea it's coming ! LOL :lol: RJ

[LBM]

Yes we had some success. No success on sheep this year but I did take a caribou with one of my sons on a different trip. Did the CI on Friday.

Good deal congrats to you guys.

[pro 111]

well said. my opinion scrap the age rule by counting the anuli. bridge the nose caller good. those rams that broom short of the nose. well lucky for them. Why would anyone take a chance on a 7 year old sheep with lam tips thats hard to judge. if hes way over giver. if hes hard to tell . just walk a little further.
my opinion.
We can all blame the COS for being heavy handed but this entire harvest of illegal rams falls back on who pulled the trigger.
Covid put more BC resident sheep hunters on the mountain due to either more freed up time, the thought there’d be less competition from the outfitters or the fact that guys were sick of government Covid mandates and just wanted to get out.
Last years sheep harvest was right in the ball park of a normal season with very few rams taken by the guides due to closed Borders.
This year, starting a week before sheep season an army of sheep hunters headed in because they knew guides wouldn’t be there unless they’d booked a Canadian resident hunter for the sheep opener.
With the confiscated Stone Sheeo, I was told by a credible source within the COS that the first 12 rams seized in Region 6 & 7B made up 50% of all rams CI’d at that time.
This number will grow, rams will get dumped now because guys will get nervous and there’s most likely more young, short sheep ditched on a mountain due to ground shrinkage.
Sheep regulations need to change, even if we don’t like it.
The change is for the good of sheep populations.
We can go on and on that the 8 year old full curl rule ensures that only a select number of mature rams are taken but that isn’t working real well in GOS areas that are in some instances probably looking at a 20% kill of immature rams.
Stone sheep aren’t white tails and a change is needed.
On the meat wastage, the majority of hunters do a first class job of bringing out meat but if you pay attention at any northern float base there’s always the ones that show up with a zip lock bag full of back straps along with the horns/antlers and the cape.
Sometimes there’s a legit answer such as poor shot placement or a grizzly moved in.
Then there’s the cold fact that manpower can only pack so much so far.
As others have said, in the case of shot up meat or meat spoiled by scavengers a camera is your friend.
Note the GPS coordinates as well in case you have to go back to the kill site with a CO to defend your case.
Groups such as the Wild Sheep Society of BC have put on numerous seminars on aging rams, lack of education isn’t the issue…..in my opinion.
The problem we are faced with is over competition for the sheep in the areas that are accessible by many of the fly in/walk in hunters.
Most of them can only go so far.

[.264winmag]

well said. my opinion scrap the age rule by counting the anuli. bridge the nose caller good. those rams that broom short of the nose. well lucky for them. Why would anyone take a chance on a 7 year old sheep with lam tips thats hard to judge. if hes way over giver. if hes hard to tell . just walk a little further.
my opinion.
Id rather have a double-broomed rule on top of full curl like Alaska. Passed on a couple of those that I bet were the oldest rams I’ve ever seen. Both very dark horned, tough to count annuli. A beat up old broomed ram is more desirable to me than a younger lamb tipped preppy looking thin horn, and imo would help with the older age class harvest percentage…

[twoSevenO]

A few of the " guys" use to post on HBC ..... want to be Rock Stars

Because they copied it from all the Americans who don't seem to have a job and somehow made hunting a job

[pro 111]

Id rather have a double-broomed rule on top of full curl like Alaska. Passed on a couple of those that I bet were the oldest rams I’ve ever seen. Both very dark horned, tough to count annuli. A beat up old broomed ram is more desirable to me than a younger lamb tipped preppy looking thin horn, and imo would help with the older age class harvest percentage…
not a bad idea.

[Imdone]

[QUOTE=.264winmag;2288361]Id rather have a double-broomed rule on top of full curl like Alaska. Passed on a couple of those that I bet were the oldest rams I’ve ever seen. Both very dark horned, tough to count annuli. A beat up old broomed ram is more desirable to me than a younger lamb tipped preppy looking thin horn, and imo would help with the older age class harvest percentage…[/QUOTE

Agreeeeeee ! Here !

I'd rather have a old heavy broomed 11 yr. Old 2 inches short of the nose than a 8 yr just past the nose

[LBM]

Id rather have a double-broomed rule on top of full curl like Alaska. Passed on a couple of those that I bet were the oldest rams I’ve ever seen. Both very dark horned, tough to count annuli. A beat up old broomed ram is more desirable to me than a younger lamb tipped preppy looking thin horn, and imo would help with the older age class harvest percentage…

Yes this would be a option would like to see a one in 5 or 10 year rule as well.

[LBM]

Another thing that find strange is a member on here has shot a ram this year and has posted his story on a few american sights, which is fine
the part i find strange is in the story he says B.C. has a large number of illegally harvested rams this year so many that the CO service has reached out to the B.C.
sheep society about it . Why would the society not bring that up on here and other sights to bring it to peoples attention. If it was and i didnt see it i appoligize.

[Islandeer]

It has been out for a while.
What I read concerned implementing an expanded LEH for Bighorns in Region 4.
There is a public input survey on now.

[twoSevenO]

Another thing that find strange is a member on here has shot a ram this year and has posted his story on a few american sights, which is fine
the part i find strange is in the story he says B.C. has a large number of illegally harvested rams this year so many that the CO service has reached out to the B.C.
sheep society about it . Why would the society not bring that up on here and other sights to bring it to peoples attention. If it was and i didnt see it i appoligize.

Americans jizzz in their pants over stone sheep. Probably got way more traction and pats on the back on the post over there than he ever would have on HBC.

[VLD43]

Another thing that find strange is a member on here has shot a ram this year and has posted his story on a few american sights, which is fine
the part i find strange is in the story he says B.C. has a large number of illegally harvested rams this year so many that the CO service has reached out to the B.C.
sheep society about it . Why would the society not bring that up on here and other sights to bring it to peoples attention. If it was and i didnt see it i appoligize.

LBM WSSBC sent out an email a few days ago asking members to complete a survey regarding changes to region 4 sheep. Heres a link We Listen | Wild Sheep Society of British Columbia | Wild Sheep Conservation (https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/engage/)

[Rackmastr]

Another thing that find strange is a member on here has shot a ram this year and has posted his story on a few american sights, which is fine
the part i find strange is in the story he says B.C. has a large number of illegally harvested rams this year so many that the CO service has reached out to the B.C.
sheep society about it . Why would the society not bring that up on here and other sights to bring it to peoples attention. If it was and i didnt see it i appoligize.

It was posted all over the WSSBC social media, as well as podcasts done on the topic

Was also sent to all members via email newsletter.

This thread was likely created as a result of the WSSBC posting it to their social media's and spreading the info.

[Rackmastr]

Americans jizzz in their pants over stone sheep. Probably got way more traction and pats on the back on the post over there than he ever would have on HBC.

More "traction and pats on the back".....ya ok. Some wonder why this place lacks the stories it once had. This comment is a prime example of why people would rather share their stories elsewhere.

[twoSevenO]

More "traction and pats on the back".....ya ok. Some wonder why this place lacks the stories it once had. This comment is a prime example of why people would rather share their stories elsewhere.

What part of that was untrue?

[Rackmastr]

What part of that was untrue?

Take care dude. Hope ya get some 'traction' somewhere else...

[twoSevenO]

Take care dude. Hope ya get some 'traction' somewhere else...

sounds like someone doesn't know the meaning of "traction".

don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[fuzzybiscuit]

Some wonder why this place lacks the stories it once had. This comment is a prime example of why people would rather share their stories elsewhere.

In my opinion Hunting BC used to be a hunting site that had additional content. Over the years it has morphed to the point where there really is very little hunting content anymore. If a person wants to share their hunting escapades with other like-minded folks there are better places to go and many contributing members have left.

[Rackmastr]

sounds like someone doesn't know the meaning of "traction".

don't let the door hit you on the way out.

No, just don't need to address the snide comments as you seem to imply a poster would tell stories for "pats on the back".

Someone doesn't want to argue on a message board, who cares? Gotta throw in the "don't let the door hit ya" comment though eh? Guess it makes people tougher online rather than just accepting an argument is pointless.

[Rackmastr]

LBM here are a couple posts by WSSBC

https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3NjE5Njk5MjQzMDk4OTo0NjA0MzQyND k2MjgzMDYx

https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3NjE5Njk5MjQzMDk4OTo0NTE5MDUyMD E0ODEyMTEw

[twoSevenO]

No, just don't need to address the snide comments as you seem to imply a poster would tell stories for "pats on the back".

Someone doesn't want to argue on a message board, who cares? Gotta throw in the "don't let the door hit ya" comment though eh? Guess it makes people tougher online rather than just accepting an argument is pointless.

you're the one that said "take care". What reply do you expect?

And yes, i do believe people are more likely to share in places where they receive more acceptance and recognition for their success. Especially if it comes with less judging and ridicule. I dont know what the american sites you speak of are like, but i can't imagine they are any more dead than HBC in terms of hunting content.

[Rackmastr]

you're the one that said "take care". What reply do you expect?


Haha I guess I should expect nothing less from some people. I tell every friend to "take care" and sign almost every email that way. Your response was perfect though.

Have a good one. This ain't going anywhere

[LBM]

LBM here are a couple posts by WSSBC

https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3NjE5Njk5MjQzMDk4OTo0NjA0MzQyND k2MjgzMDYx

https://m.facebook.com/story/graphql_permalink/?graphql_id=UzpfSTE3NjE5Njk5MjQzMDk4OTo0NTE5MDUyMD E0ODEyMTEw

Thanks rackmastr but i dont do facebook

[LBM]

LBM WSSBC sent out an email a few days ago asking members to complete a survey regarding changes to region 4 sheep. Heres a link We Listen | Wild Sheep Society of British Columbia | Wild Sheep Conservation (https://www.wildsheepsociety.com/engage/)

Thanks VLD43 i will see if they will let a non-member submit.

[emerson]

Sheep guys are starting to sound like CrossFitters.

[ElectricDyck]

Does anybody have numbers from other years to actually prove this is more than normal?